Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.388: Skincare For Melanin-Rich Skin Types 4, 5&6 Is Finally Here ! Ft. 4.5.6 Skin Founder, Noelly

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E.388: Skincare For Melanin-Rich Skin Types 4, 5&6 Is Finally Here ! Ft. 4.5.6 Skin Founder, Noelly · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's been needed for many, many years now, I think.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited about the fact that we have the founder here with us who represents a line that is for people who do have melanin-rich skin and have different skin concerns than you know what we see normally.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the founder of 456 Skin, uh Noellie Michu.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Noelli.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yay.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Ekta.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited for this conversation.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, likewise, I was like, you know, everyone listening, we were talking right before the episode.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was just telling Noelli the same thing I just started with, which is that, you know, this is truly a line that's been like well thought out, you know, when it comes to the melanin-rich um end of the spectrum, you know, when it comes to that skin type, because there's so many different skin concerns, like the oiliness, sebum production, all that stuff is different, you know?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's just a topic that for me, it's been of interest for so many years.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, noelli, I'm excited to learn all about the line, but I want to learn all about you first.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you walk us down memory lane and tell us all about how you got into skin health, skincare, beauty, you know, just the whole uh whole journey, really?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, this one was uh quite random for me to be honest with you.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: I never thought that um I would get to be an entrepreneur, really, as a career.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: But um I um I am Cameroonian.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm originally from Cameroon, that's where I was born, and I grew up in France and in Europe, and really growing up as a young African girl with like dark skin um in Europe, there's there are two things that are understood at a really young age.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: And this is something we realize when you come to France that it has not been a reality when you live in Africa.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: You understand that from a social and cultural heritage standpoint, right, skin is positional, right?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you have a very clear societal Iraqi based on skin tone.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: And the second thing I understood um was that we live in a in a health but also appearance-driven society.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: So healthy skin, it's very important, it's very attractive.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's something that can make you feel really bad, and lack of confidence can make you feel beautiful and confident as well.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: And skin's really like this primary interface between the self and the outside world, and skin alone can communicate so many messages to the outside world, just like the outside world can assume a lot about you based on your skin.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: And this this is something that I distantly realized just um moving into France and with this constantly in my mind.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, finding solutions that keep the skin healthy and attractive and that help convey that positive message to the outside world was a journey that I and we, you know, um dark-skinned women or women of color, we embark on a really young age.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: And this is when we are faced with what we call the struggle discovery, where in one part, just finding the basic, basic information to properly care for your skin, it was just like impossible.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so you have to draw upon the cultural heritage, those information for basic skincare, which a lot is scientifically not accurate.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: And the other part is the trial and errors, right?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Which we we just get used to it.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, you you when when I lived in Plause, I was like, I don't know, I have skincare problems.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: I go to Sephora, I come back with uh a bag full of products and they don't do anything for me.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was that or go to Chateau d'eau, which is a very um, it's a community, a neighborhood with a lot of African stalls.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I don't want to go there because I'm I'm not identifying with that experience, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's not how I view myself.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you kind of create this visual, vicious circle where you you adopt skincare habits and uh skincare products that are not good for you, that would at best not solve your problems, but would most likely exacerbate them, thus prompting you to constantly be on the hurt on the hunt for the next best thing.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then it goes on and on and on.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: And what happens, and that's really what I experienced, is like your frustrations with the whole system grows so so much.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: But what you don't realize is that as your frustration grows, your skin's immune system is just being weakened gradually, you know, by just everything that you're doing wrong than just doing too much.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, the stress is making it worse, you're right.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the stress and the frustration and all of that, and then it's making you even more vulnerable to the conditions that you're prone to, the dehydration, the excess oil secretion and the hyperpigmentation with sexual and etc.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: etc.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: And this is a frustration, I can say that has been universally felt amongst women of color in Europe.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: And in a sense, we always justify that by the lack of diversity.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: You neglect, oh, I live in France, it's not that diverse.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it makes sense that there's nothing um for me.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: So when I moved to the US in 2013, I started working in the beauty industry.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: I used to work for an e-commerce company that handled um the full, just like full life of mostly French and European brands in like makeup, perfumes, and skincare.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: And to me, this is the most diverse country in the world, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: We look at the US when we like they have figured it out.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: They got it down with the whole diversity thing because there's such a visible and powerful POC community.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but what was really shocking to me was to see that working in an industry and just talking to um my communities, my diverse communities, it was like not only black women, but also women of color as a whole were going through the same frustrations.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, I'm like, I'm not I'm not inspired to start a brand.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious, right?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just like, wait, yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: I need to understand what is the correlation between people having higher content of melanin in their skin and the struggle discovery because my Caucasian friends are not going through this, right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're yeah, yeah.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: They they're not having these issues, and so with makeup, you understand the problem.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: The problem is pretty clear with makeups.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have the right shades, the undertones are off, the base are of, so we're looking great.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: So you can identify the problem.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that the industry was able to identify the problem very easily with makeup, and that's why you know we we saw a lot of diversication in makeup.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: But with with skincare, it was just like, and skincare is so crucial for skin health and your overall well-being.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: You just like no one knew what was happening, like massive confusion.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like this huge, huge, huge gap with research, with education.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I started looking.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was really at at this point, I'm just being curious.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I need to understand like, is there any valid reason why this is happening?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: So doing this.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, listen, Noelia, I I hear you.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm a huge believer, and I here's the thing, you know, I'm gonna share this because I think it's so inspiring for me seeing this happening literally, like I think two years down the road.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, you know, two years ago, I started this little platform on Instagram, and it was because a bunch of pre-med students came to me and they were like, you know what, we want to talk about dermatology.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, at the time, I was really getting into the science of skin.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, um, it was very early for me in terms of like being on Instagram and doing the whole social media thing.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started this little initiative with them.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was called Brown Skin Health.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I even got this uh the Society of Colored Skin involved.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I got a bunch of dermatologists involved.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: We, you know, and we started doing this little mini um series.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I started like a little TED talk thing, you know, where like the people they would come on, they would have a presentation.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole idea of, and the reason I'm telling you this is because I wanted, I wanted to figure out where are the differences between melanin rich skin and non-melanin rich skin.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and I t I kid you not, dermatologists included shot me down because for me, it became a project outside of just social media, it became a research project.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to publish a paper on it.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I even wrote up a manuscript and I might resubmit it now.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, back then, just two years ago, people were like, You're absolutely crazy, Ecta.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's no differences between melanin rich skin and none.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, How is that possible?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not morphologically possible.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: You've got this molecule that's you know determining the structure of our dermal layers.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Melanin is a very interesting, like, you know, um, it's a pigment, yeah, pigment-rich molecule, but the molecule itself is very interesting when you start like studying it, you know what I mean?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in terms of its interactions with cells, uh, what it turns on to be.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was you know what I mean?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, there's so much here.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I absolutely, with all due respect to my dermatologist colleagues, I was like, all due respect, I love you guys, but you're wrong.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're wrong.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's something here.
• 11:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know if they are to blame.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like what you're saying is it's from the start in the class, in that dermal class, where everything we learn about dermatology, everything we learn about um skin conditions and how to treat them again is based on um skin phototype one, two, three.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not even you know surprised that uh an experienced dermatologist would go, wait, I don't see where the problem is, uh where the difference is beside this, beside this melanin thing, because they have not been um thought that in in DOM classes.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: But that is, and I and I grew up with absolutely the same view saying that skinny skin, right?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: I understand why my makeup is problematic when it comes to skincare.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's no color involved and skinny skin.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: So we should be all getting the same satisfaction and efficacy, you know, but that's that's that's just not the case.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: You've probably heard about the Fitzpatrick scale, right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Which uh Yeah, yeah, which I think is a bit outdated at this point.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: It is, it is, yeah.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Did you see that Google just actually came up with a new scale that worked with this American scientist called Dr.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Monk, and they created the monk scale.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you can you can research that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think the monk scale is a lot more accurate, and this is um part of Google, Google's initiative to make um research search results a bit a bit more representative because uh, you know, like when you go online and you type hyperpigmentation and I put the emphasis on the hyper, you feel that I'm gonna see results on people that um hyperpigment that have darker skin, but you always have like the same kind of results.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna say hyperpigmentation is different based on skin color, it's uh that's a fact.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I know people, I know my own friends and colleagues and family that you know there are different levels we all have of hyperpigmentation, you know, because of our skin color.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's a fact.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's it's a very outdated idea to assume that we as human beings, just because 99 point, what is it, not eight eight percent of our DNA is exactly the same, that that other 0.2 percent isn't you know a big enough deal to where we're gonna have to have serious you know differences in our own.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: And they are they are really important, and it's you all you have to do is read the scientific evidence, right?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: And you you you will make it all clearer and you understand why we're still having um these these problems because when you look at the phototypes, just staying with the four the Fitzpatrick, which is yes, very outdated, but it's been such a useful tool just to bring awareness and be like, hey guys, we need to be looking into this.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but besides the melanin, which is the the visible difference, they actually are those structural differences, functional differences in in the density of the skin is different.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like skin phototype four, five, and six have skin that are denser.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you would see this also in the fact that we have more collagen, right?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: We have more elastin, which is why we tend to age a lot later than um skin phototype one, two, three, who do not have first, they don't have melanin, because melanin is also a protective system to for the skin.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: So white skin don't have it, they don't have as much collagen, they don't have as much as much elastin, and so they tend to kind of have those um wrinkles a lot a lot earlier.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: That is a massive fact to take into account when you're creating skincare, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because that takes you to wait.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: What is happening with these communities always complaining about dry skin, dry skin, dry skin, skin is dry, it is dry.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's dry and it's dehydrated because if the skin is denser, it's kind of thicker, you need to think about how you get hydration there.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: And if the whole hydration system in the industry is being created based on what skin phototype one, two, and three needs, which is pretty much an occlusive system, right?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: And all you have to do is turn around those bottles, look at the ingredients, and it's all occlusive, which doesn't work for us.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then you look at the environment, and this is where when people say it's all the same, I'm like, okay, let's look at the environment, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: Where my ancestors evolved pretty much plays a huge role with how my skin is set up, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: My skin tries the best in a in a climate where it's um hot and it's humid, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because then I have that hydration system where my skin can take from the environment and bring the humidity in.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so I am having um a whole source system where I get the hydration that I need from the environment.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas when I live in a colder climate and I don't have that humidity and I don't have the sun, my skin, you know, my hydrolipid system just doesn't know what to do with this.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so trans epidomal loss, what happens, right?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where the skin just gets dehydrated, and then you look at the role that the sun or the lack of sufficient um solar energy does to me, which is if I don't get it, and then I have deficiency with vitamin D.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we have a clear correlation being established between dry skin and vitamin D, not to mention that vitamin D has been classified as a hormone.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: So it just plays a lot of roles in our well-being.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so when someone says we are the same, you know, we are not seeing um this happen happening exactly with white white skin because they don't need the sun as much and they're not going through transapidermal water loss, etc.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: etc.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: So they are nuances and they need to be factoring when we're creating products, otherwise.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I think also, Nolly, you know, not to interrupt you, but I think it's not that they're not undergoing it, it's that they're going.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: See, I always preach this and I really mean it, and I wish people would start listening is this idea that dose-dependent everything, okay?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Dose-dependent everything.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say that, what I mean is you have to realize that there are different levels of things happening for everybody.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like transhepidomal water loss is a phenomenon that is seen across the board.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone experiences it, but you're not going to experience it as much when there's not as much there to begin with.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the layers of more Caucasian skin, there's it's a thinner set of layers, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not as much, you know, like there to hydrate.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So your skin is not going to have that much concentration of water.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, it's not going to undergo as much transactive water loss.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, what we need to start looking at are things rather than just like these numbers, start looking at ratios, you know, start figuring out ratios, like how much of the water is being lost, how much of the water is going away, you know.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with you with what you said with the you know, with the hotter, humid climates, even myself, you know, I'm medium skin tone, you know, or skin color.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I remember I spent a lot of years in the Caribbean and I would always, always complain when I came home because it's not just the water, the humidity, and the heat, it's also things like salt concentration in the water.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the you know what I mean?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Those kind of things.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: They make a difference.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like there's a whole basics.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a whole set of things we haven't even tapped into that are impacting the the health of more darker skin tones.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie, I didn't have as many breakouts when I was in those climates.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I my skin wasn't, it wasn't breaking out, getting all, you know, like frisky and stuff, like you know, here in the in the north.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's very but there is such a thing as the skin immune system, and it's like it thrives best under certain climates and under certain environments.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: And even you having that understanding, right?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: You're going to treat your skin differently, you're going to pay attention to certain things.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And that the that lack of knowledge is also another exacerbating factor that we see within melanin-which skin communities.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: So we just because we we just don't have um that education.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: And when you look at hyperpigmentation, for example, which is one of the main, main, main issues for people with skin for child 4, 5, and 6, when we talk to our customers, at first they don't even understand why this is such a big problem for them, right?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: And this is why 456, we always try to go back to the education and education.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: Let's look at the skin, let's look at the physiology first and understand why the skin is behaving this way.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you do that, you really start there when you're creating something.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then the skin is going to give you all the information that you need to align your formulation philosophy.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then what you use in a formula is all naturally going to fall together, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: And with hyperpigmentation, people just say, oh, but because you have melanin in your skin, yes, it's the melanin, but we're not talking about the role that inflammation plays into people, you know, having hyperpigmentation and why that inflammation happens.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: And we see that you know, people with photocytes four, five, and six, and especially the five and six, because the four, which I think you fall in that category in the sense that you you have your very light skin, um, you can easily pass for like Caucasian, but you still have that um those melanocytes, right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: That are they are they are they would be bigger than uh a fully Caucasian person, and you're going to tan a little bit more and you're going to have the hyperpigmentation if your skin is inflamed, it would be probably less reactive than a phototype 5 and a 6.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: But the melanocytes and the melanin, they play a very important role, and people need to understand that these melanocytes, they're they're robust, they're very active because they have to they have to produce a lot of melanin, right?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: And we're so thankful for this protector.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: But melanin is also a protective system.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: So every time my skin feels irritated, aggressed, but it could be anything.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it could be the cold, the pollution.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, you rub it, you rub it, you use skincare that is too too strong, or you eat something, it creates inflammation.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: When inflammation happens, your skin goes, Let's send the melanin, you know, soldier, to protect the inflame area.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: And this Is how you you hyperpigment.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: So it's important that the whole industry is focusing on hyperpigmentation, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but if you don't look at why that is happening, this is how you end up in an industry where everyone thinks is okay to give people with melanin grid skin um an eye-type pigmentation product that is um highly dosed with like 10 this and 5% that it's like you do not understand, you didn't get the point.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: You completely missed the point.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: You haven't actually understood you don't understand how melanin works, you don't understand.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's another well, that's another point.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think that's that's a very, very important point what you're making.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I really love that you said that because you know, just for everyone's understanding, you know, for those who don't know, melanocytes are some of the most interesting cells because they're dendritic cells, and what that means is they have branches, like you know, it's like big, like think of like a neuron has a bunch of arms on it, okay?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when they when you get melanin, like when melanin is distributed in your body and your skin, it's distributed by one melanocyte sending it to another one.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're all sharing it.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So what's happening is that you have this underlying ununiform, non-uniform um layer of melanin.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the reason, okay, so I'm trying to explain this because it's important to understand why we all have hyperpigmentation that's so different.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have this distribution of melanin in your skin and it's happening through this normal mechanism where one cell is giving it to another, then that cell's giving it to another.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's a it's like the game of telephone.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna, it's like by the end of it, when 10 cells down the line, you're gonna have less melanin in that 10th cell as compared to the first one that started transferring.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is a phenomenon.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just like, you know what I mean?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like how like dye runs through paper or how something it distributes.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, the amount of UV rays that hit uniformly across this layer of 10 cells, the 10 cell wide layer, that those 10 cells are going to show different levels of what we call hyperpigmentation.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where the misunderstanding is.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the the knowledge and the the real in-depth understanding has to come into play on a consumer level before this problem ever gets fixed, in my opinion, because people don't they don't know this because nobody's talking about it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the problem.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm a massive issue.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's such a massive issue.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: People just have zero awareness of how the this whole system works.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, I want to ask you, okay, Noelie, so I want to I really want to talk about the line because it's such a beautifully uh crafted line.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's I love the product range.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have done it uh true justice um to the products that actually matter um for a lot of the problems that Melan and Riskin that I've heard of, you know, really goes through, that I know goes through from my own experiences.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I want to talk about it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was the formulation process like for you?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, in terms of where did you go?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: What like what was the homework involved?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then where did you go and find in terms of finding a lab that would deliver what you wanted?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, oh my gosh.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I could tell us about it for days, Hector.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I mean, the basically when I realized that you know that there was there were differences there, nuances and in the skin, and then kind of looked at the industry.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: And when you analyze who are the players in the industry, right, going from the raw material suppliers, because you really start there.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: You can even take it to dermatology because anything we have with skincare always comes from the dermatology world.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: So it goes down, then the raw materials start, create the ingredient, the way they test them, the way and then they sell them to brands and the way the brand creates formulation and tests them all been on on skin phototype um one, two, three.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I realized that the four, five, six are completely excluded in the process.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, even the way the the testing process are set today, it's still on one, two, three scheme.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like you have to fight the legislation to be able to say, I want to, I want to do my patch test on the on the on phototype five or six.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so I um I go to France and I start calling lamps, and I'm like, I have this idea, I want to do this line, but um, I want my approach to be different because I see that there is this huge gap, research gap in the industry.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: And even if we're seeing a we're seeing a lot, a lot, a lot more brands emerging that are founded by people from the community.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: But really, when you look at the formulations, you get the products, you quickly realize that these products are coming from established labs who do their research and the testing based on skin prototype one, two, three.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: So for the lack of um better solutions, um, people kind of have to deal with what's out there.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, I want it, I want this approach to be to be different, and I'm and I'm willing to take the time to do it.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: And all of them pretty much um told me to, you know, to go away.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like we don't do specific products for darker skin tone, but we do have amazing formulations.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: You can take them and twist them and add um some oils, perfume, whatever.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's what everyone does.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was very I like that it's so discouraging to hear that.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm starting to understand that this is the state of the manufacturing industry because I did not know that either, Noelly, till I had spoken to a wonderful guest I had had on who was the founder of the pharmaceutic the skincare brand pharmacy.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And David came onto the show because he has his own lab now.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's i Labs, and iLabs doesn't do that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, no, he's amazing.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's amazing, he's phenomenal.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like he explained that to me, and he's like, Ecta, yeah, that's what they do is like they have like these cookie cutter formulas and they sell them to people, and then they're like, Oh, you can add this and you can take this away.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is such a huge disservice, by the way, to the entrepreneurship community, you know what I mean?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: So it is, and like if you are doing this for the mainstream market again, um, and I use the word mainstream um very carefully, as I mean, like one to three skin phototype, which are they they are the you know, they have been the standard of skin, but when you're trying to do it for skins that have been under addressed, I just don't see the logic in you going down and being like, I'm gonna buy that cookie cutter formulation and just twist it and sell it to my community.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: That is to me, that's like treason, you know, almost.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I um I went it.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: This is uh 2018, right?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: So um uh I go online, I start looking for labs, it's not going well.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: I start telling my friends about the project.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: Then one of my friends say, Hey, I know this guy, he's um he's an amazing formulator.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: He's been working for this German um lab for 10 years, and now he's coming back to France to start his own lab.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: He sounds wonderful.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Put me in contact with him.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: I get connected, I meet him, I pitch my vision, he loves it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Yeah, let's work together.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: We start working on structuring the line and everything.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then I send him the contract when then let's create the company.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: I send him the contract, and then for a week, no news.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I keep calling, like, look, what's happening?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then he goes he comes back to me and says, My wife does not want me to go into this entrepreneur route, so we're just going to do uh manufacturing, and I was devastated.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, this was this, this was it for me.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like having that scientist, that formulator that could cook create a brand for me, it was so devastating.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: But later I found out about the French cosmetic valet, you know, up in France, we have like a huge, huge, huge, huge beauty industry.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: And there is um this whole region in France where all of the big guys, they are they have their manufacturing there, their you know, the RD and the research lab, they're all there.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so I discovered then they had a program called Cosmet Top, which was an initiative by all of the big brands, all the big names, you know, from France and the French government to help foster innovation within the the French beauty industry.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so I prepared my pitch and I I go there and was like, let me pitch these people, and I pitched my idea.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: They all thought was a bit crazy.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is um this is this is going to be really, really hard for you to do in this ecosystem, Noelly.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, how can we help?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I would love to have a lab, I would love to co-create this with the scientists.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um with the the juror that um was a part of my presentation, we had their one of the directors of structures uh from the LVMH Research Center, and this person really took a liking to my project.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: He was like, This is so neat, this is so necessary, and we understand that there is just like this massive opportunity that the industry is not looking at.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I salute you for doing this.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they introduced me to my wonderful co-founder, and just like this person, the universe sent for me.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: She's like my sister, she's an amazing scientist, she's a skin researcher, pharmacist, she's someone who does not compromise when it comes to skin health.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: And they say, now we can incubate you within the LVMH research center.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: So here's a lab, here's the equipment, you have access to expert, and then here look talk to this person.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think you guys are going to love each other because she's also African, she's from Tunisia.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's how I met Iman, my co-founder, and we got the incubation with the LVMH Research Center through the Cosmetical program.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: And this is really how the research journey started.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: So uh it's amazing, you know, right?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's a completely different situation where you're trying to call a lab and be like, My name is Louis Michael, you know, I'm a complete nobody.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then no one can I get this?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: And everyone's like, you know, go away.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then when you call and you have that Christian Dior uh call and say, I'm coming from uh LVMH, Christian Dior, and this is what I need.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone's like, of course, but of course, and it would be free.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it was an amazing opportunity for us to start doing the work, and we um developed um like 80% of the line there, and just being with LVMH that helps a little bit.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, we've been financing, self-financing the project for almost a year.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: We need to raise some money.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we raised from some business angels and friends of family, I think 700,000 um euros, and then we also got um a loan from the French public investment bank, which is which was amazing.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then we made this crazy decision to not invest in marketing, right?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because at that time the the line was 80% finished, we just had to you know to the final touches, but then we started looking at manufacturers, and this was when the second set of problems started happening.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like we have a formula, where are we going to produce it?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: And we had uh works on creating this system from scratch, everything aligned on the structural and functional differences of melanin red skin, how do we tackle hydration?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: That goes into yes, we need to create a great vectorization system, great carriers, and that naturally to what is the water science around my products and how I can leverage water to solve hydration.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so you make the decision and say that for melanin red skin, using the mineralized uh kind of this dead water on the on the skin that is mostly made of water, is it doesn't make sense.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we are going to use active water, uh, and then this is how we're going to create active water.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing! You you do that, you test it, and you can see just how effective the products are.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: But when you get to that point where you are talking to a manufacturer, they go, Wait, I only work with the mineralized water.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: I would not produce product that do not use that because it's just not my system.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: And who are you?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're a small brand, you're probably going to produce three SKUs and you're asking him to change his whole setup for you.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, that's not going to happen.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we started seeing bumps in the road like that.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: We also just going on our formulation philosophy, a lot of things came naturally that we were not, never, ever going to use, like you know, the plastics excluded silicons, excluded, carbomers, excluded the sulfates, a lot that we had to exclude to just make it a virtuous system for Melanium Beadskin.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: So when you go to a manufacturer and they tell you, I'm not sure that I can create the textures that I like creating if you're not using plastic powders and silicones.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: And this is why we're like, okay, we just raised some money.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: So we either go with the whole marketing thing or we uh we build something that is stronger, right?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: We strengthen our foundations, and this is when we decided that we're going to build our own lab, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um have our own research lab.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: We invested in production equipment, and this is how we became manufacturers, which was crazy.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: You guys are crazy.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that though.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm so glad that you did it the way you did.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that you opted to get, you know, um to get the help, you know, to get the help that you need to really do this right.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, let's be honest here, you know, I scan the industry every day.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's part of the job, right?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I look and I and I see a lot of lines that are created by women of color.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's so much.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I see a lot of lines created by women of color.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: The packaging, like I'm gonna be honest with everybody, like brutally honest, okay?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like for real.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is shit.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: We have got to work on collectively as women of color.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: If we're starting a line, you have got you've got to make it chic, you've got to make it beautiful, you've got to make it minimalistic, but still, yeah, you gotta make it authentic.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot keep putting just stuff on there that's further like marginalizing who's gonna be able to buy it.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, people want the luxury look.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Give them what they want, but make the products that you like that you know we need.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I keep trying to explain this and I don't know a nicer way to say it because you know, when I saw your line, I think Noelli, for me, one of the big things that really drew me in as a customer, as a woman of color, as somebody who really believes in the mission and really liked the way it looked and felt was the packaging.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was minimalistic, had the logo on there, had all the information on there.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, you know, it was easy for me to comprehend within the same, you know, framework that I'm used to with good skincare products.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did not have to navigate that extra, like wait, you know that uh pause that happens when you buy something, it's either you instantly buy it or you pause and then you buy it.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: You should never pause and then buy.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: That should never be your goal, you know, like so there's no pause, yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: But this is, I think it always goes back to your intent with it, right?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when your intent is to uplift, to empower and do better by your community, then things kind of happen differently, they happen naturally and very easily because you those decisions are just going to be easy for you to take and be like, no, I won't compromise on this, I would I would never compromise on this.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not going to do this because it's not the feeling I want to give people.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget we're also creating these solutions for ourselves, right?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: When I start this line, like I was very much myself suffering from you know, having that dry, very sensitive skin, that hyperpigment for anything.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like seriously, I go out and it's a bit windy, and my skin goes, Oh my god, where's the melanin?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, pollution is like, oh my god, here goes the the spraps and then the the the acne and the dark spot that comes from it.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: So you are kind of in the middle of it and you are chasing a feeling as well.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: You're chasing efficacy, you are chasing consideration, you're chasing a feeling.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you're trying to make sure that when you create something, it really doesn't have that kind of uh backward ethnic um feel to it because you don't identify with it.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what we were trying to do, and we're it's of even going to look better.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're having new packaging coming out soon is gonna look even so so much better.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: But well, I think it's very nice is in the right place, then you you just you just do a good job.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: And this is something in when you say that you see a lot of this line and it's shit.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I like I agree with that.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: And myself and a man, we are so authentic and so truthful to our process that when we see, whenever I see a new line by someone from the community, there's always part one, which is like, yay, we need this, right?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: We need this.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that like let me be let me be honest, let me clarify.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I the lines aren't shit now.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Let me get you know, tell you one thing.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's for example, there's a few lines that have the I mean, the best shea butter is made by by black women.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's hands down.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot make a better shea butter or moisturizer, in my opinion, than a black woman in America or anywhere, really, because they understand what a moisturizer needs.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: We as women of color in general understand certain things that people who aren't, they don't.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem is that the product might be like 10 out of 10 quality, right?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: But if your packaging is not vibing with everybody, you're not gonna get those sales.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's my point.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you gotta have, you gotta have the right team and you gotta make those decisions on a business level where it's like you're like, for example, you went through your process, right?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: No Meli, like you explained it to us.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I love that you went through it like that because it avoids these traps that entrepreneurs want to fall into, which is yes, we have our own style, yes, we have our own look and what we like, but not everybody has our style, right?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta you're gonna have to rethink how you put your product out there into the world because you want it to appeal to as many people as possible.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that's my message.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: To all of the all of the entrepreneurs out there that are people of color, we have to rethink because that's what the market's demanding and that's what we have to deliver.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't have that.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they aren't going through incubators or they're not going through any other program or someone who's guiding them, like a mentor.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I even said that is like it's important, it's an important factor.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: But me, like I I I completely understand the the how it looks thing, but I don't even take offense to that.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: Usually, what really, really makes me feel sad and sometimes angry, it's like you turn around because once again, you know, we can have a beautiful story, you can have an amazing concept.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: Skin care is about the process behind, it's about the formulation at the end of the day, it's about efficacy and how it feels, etc.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: When you turn that bottle and you start reading the ingredient, you're like, it is just not possible that someone who says that they have developed a line for this community which has you know nuances in the skin, different sensibilities, is how did it come up with this?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is a problematic product.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is going to prompt inflammation, you know, this is going to take the skin to a completely different um uh direction.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it feels like if you are in this space and it's such an amazing time to be in this space where we women of color are in positions to start creating for ourselves.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's like do the work, like look at your people, talk to them, ask them what they really need, and then do the work in a way that works for them, not in a way that further, you know, gives them this false sense of this is what we should be getting, because someone from my community is saying this is good for me when in fact it's not the case.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that's something I find I think it's dommage, like we say in French, because it's just not helping the whole situation.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, anyway, so that that that was our process, and we decided to go for the for the for the lab.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I think that just looking at where we are today, right?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm Imen and myself are absolutely 100% honest with the fact that where we are in terms of understanding what really where we where we were when we started, and we are a team, like we have scientists, right?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: We are working with uh research bodies in France.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: We really have that scientific uh backing, but still you just don't know enough, right?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: You just don't know enough because there are so many other factors that impact the scheme, you know, and it goes beyond just like the formulation and kind of going through this wait, we're going to do practical, we've done the RD, now we're going to do.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Phase two, which is practical research.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: Let's customize the product, right?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: Let's create a website, let's customize the product.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna make it look nice, let's put it in a glass bottle.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's all nice, you know, make it simple but nice.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Put this in the hands of the customer and let us let her tell us how that's working for her.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what we've been doing for the past two years.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: And you have no idea just how much feedback you get from women of color when you actually talk to them, when you actually ask them, do you like this?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, give me your feedback.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: Is this hydrating enough?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: Do we need to increase it?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: And is it too much?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the these combinations for your hyperpigmentation on your skin for the time.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: If I put this ingredient and this concentration and then this one, how is that working for you?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then you start learning because the data talks to you, the data tells you this does not work, this not so much.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you get to a point where when you put something out there, you know exactly like the community is going to like this, they're going to accept this, and there are other products where you're like, hmm, this is kind of a new one, let's give it a trial.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to produce just a little bit, like we want that feedback, and then we can start, you know, we can keep on uh scaling it.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it's been such a wonderful process.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like if we just created a line and be like, oh, you know, we have scientists, we know what we're doing, we have all of the evidence, and then let's just go out with it.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think that we would have been met with a certain backlash, right?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because all the feedback that we got, it allows us to like improve and iterate, and we just have like a better system and better comparation and better products for it.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: And they keep changing.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: This is like a continuous improvement process, it's never stopping.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I just love that we were kind of bold enough and a bit crazy to say this is what we're doing and not that.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'm glad you did it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad you did it.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm I'm proud of you guys for doing it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I really mean that.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's truly a service to the entire industry that you're paving the way and that you're really kind of trailblazing this whole niche of skin health.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's something that's been long overdue.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: I um, you know, for everyone listening, we actually awarded Four Five Six Skin two of our top pick awards in two different categories.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I I mean, I just want to say like I believe in this line, you know.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: I really I think the line is absolutely beautiful.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's crafted so wonderfully.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's not just about, you know, if you're a per woman of color or not and if you can use it or not.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's no box, okay?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just want people to understand that it's not a boxed in kind of line.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a line that everyone you can use it, including women of color, because it's it's made to be really effective for you.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: So just keep that in mind.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want everyone to check it out regardless, because there's so many great products.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, also, uh, you know, your cleanser is amazing.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna tell you, Noelle, I love the cleanser.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so so fun.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I love it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love it.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love the whole line.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think the essence, the cleanser, the the the two products that we awarded were the um the serum and the um the lead, yeah.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the yeah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and so both of the serums we awarded because honestly, it it's more about having products that can be put on your skin and left there and you don't have to worry about it.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that, you know, that's also a part of creating efficacious lines, regardless of who you're making them for, is this idea of do the products I'm you know putting out there serve a purpose?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And are they going to lead to downstream overall health benefits?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really think that you guys have done that, you know.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've I really believe it.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got the hydration, you've got the exfoliation there.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: The the line comes with a mask, which by the way, I'm a huge fan because I love masks and exfoliating masks because it's like a two-in-one, right?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: Exfoliating masks.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that was one, it's just like all of our products are always coming from a uh a place of there is an issue, this is the physiology, this is the problem, this is what the science demands that we do so that we create the the the product that actually works for this game.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: And um, just going back to that exfoliator because it was so interesting when we were developing it, and I always go to you men and be like, can we have an exfoliating product that stops over exfoliation, please?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because every time I bought an exfoliator, I was like, my skin is I have very sensitive skin, so maybe I'm not the wrong benchmark, but my skin really reacts to a lot, but your skin is burning and then you're getting hyperpigmentation.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you know how exfoliation is so important in a community, and we have this uh um belief that the more you scrub it, you know, the more you can really feel it, the better it's working, which is in fact not true, right?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: We looked at um exfoliation, a scheme that has just been exfoliated, you know, with like mechanical um uh exfoliator in um the microscope, and you see this like micro-test, you know, in the skin, not visible, those micro-tells, and they create hyperpigmentation.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: And we're like, okay, we need to create an if exfoliating system that is first of all not going to create uh inflammation, but also we need to look at how that's going to help to kind of kick back that skin metabolism that gets slowed down because you're not getting enough sun, and then we need to make sure that it's buffing away the dead cells, um, and we need to make it part of the anti-pigmentation system because that's how you kind of you know you help take away that old skin with um you know extra pigments and you help the emergence of new skin that doesn't have it.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like such a technical product.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: So then you need to make it an exfoliator and a mask and no mechanical exfoliator.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I just love, love, love how it came out and just how it has evolved like all of our products.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: If you see version one compared to what it is today, it's always like, oh my god, we've come a long way with this one.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I mean, you know, you gotta you gotta try and try again until you get it right.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I really think you guys did.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you you launched the line after you knew it was it was ready.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's very important.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, when we're delivering products to especially a group of you know, of consumers that might not be very privy to trying new products, you know, because I mean I think a lot of us are like that, right?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're like stuck in our ways and we don't really want to change.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important that what you come out with is the final version, it's the quality that you wanted.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I really love the line.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm a huge fan and I really want everybody to check it out.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: I really mean that.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's not just for um my melanin-rich listeners, which it is for you, but it's also for everybody.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I it's got beautiful products.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So check it out, you know.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: 456 skin.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna tag everything in the concept art for this episode.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Noally, thank you so much for coming onto the show.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and thank you for recognizing our work.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: We were so excited to see the awards coming in, and yeah, that's just so encouraging for us to keep um doing the great work that we're doing.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you so much for amplifying our message and giving us visibility through your platform.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: We uh need that, and we appreciate you for doing this.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's my honor.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm very happy to do it, and I and I love bringing lines to all of our listeners that are really, really science heavy and they've got the the real stuff behind them.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, um, for everyone listening, definitely chime in.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let me know what you guys think of this episode.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we would love to hear from you if you are somebody who um, you know, has been looking for more melanin rich geared skincare products.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let us know, you know, keep this conversation going.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is to have people talking and continue it, you know, continue talking.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um definitely send us a message, email us if you have any questions for Noelli's team.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely send them our way.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: We can get on Instagram, on on LinkedIn.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm always happy to pick up a conversation, always.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: See, I love that.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, definitely take advantage of that, you know.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and I hope you guys are loving the content and the top picks.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to remind everyone, they're not over yet.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we still have body care coming up, we still have fragrances coming up, we have still have so many beautiful categories, and so I'm really excited.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, thank you to everyone.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank thank you to everyone who's been uh really tuning in for that.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, all right, guys, I will be back next time.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, bye.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 52:58
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• 53:03
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• 53:05
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• 53:20
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• 53:37
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• 53:41
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• 53:46
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• 53:51
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• 53:58
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• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.