Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Crypto Pressure Release Before Rally🚀Matt Hougan Bitwise INTERVIEW

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Crypto Pressure Release Before Rally🚀Matt Hougan Bitwise INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:00
Speaker 1: Today. It's going to be a good one.
0:01
Speaker 2: I'm going to have Matt Hogan on so you don't
0:02
Speaker 2: want to miss it. My name is Paul Bareer. Welcome
0:04
Speaker 2: back into the show. Let's get into it. I do
0:06
Speaker 2: want to thank our sponsor, and that is coinbase, where
0:08
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Speaker 1: Check it out.
0:28
Speaker 2: Use our link down in the in the description. I
0:31
Speaker 2: want to lead off here before we get in with
0:33
Speaker 2: Matt Hogan a clip because a lot of people are
0:35
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how and why this market dip
0:40
Speaker 2: started to happen and what is it going to look
0:42
Speaker 2: like to come out of it.
0:43
Speaker 1: Let's go to that clip. The macro hedge funds.
0:44
Speaker 3: You ask how they really trade crypto, They use it
0:46
Speaker 3: as a release file for macro events. Right, how many
0:49
Speaker 3: times have you seen a geopolitical situation happen on a
0:51
Speaker 3: Friday night? Post to close?
0:53
Speaker 4: Right?
0:53
Speaker 3: And then you know, by Monday everything setul bitcoin is
0:56
Speaker 3: going up five percent, down four percent, right by token
0:59
Speaker 3: is securities and in equities, you open up the world
1:02
Speaker 3: of twenty four seven trading. Nonetheless, I think there's definitely
1:04
Speaker 3: tom on there for sure.
1:06
Speaker 2: That was it Wasmant Naim, head of assets over at coinbase,
1:10
Speaker 2: And I want to bring in Matt Hogan, as you
1:13
Speaker 2: guys know there he is Matt Hogan CIO.
1:16
Speaker 1: Bitwise. Great to have you back on the show.
1:18
Speaker 4: Glad to be here, Paul, Good to see you.
1:20
Speaker 1: So when you look.
1:21
Speaker 2: At what what Uzma was talking about, this you know
1:25
Speaker 2: this twenty four to seven volatility nature of crypto. You
1:30
Speaker 2: see these wild swings on major assets. You look at
1:34
Speaker 2: ETFs and you look at securities. Do you think we
1:37
Speaker 2: could see that in the future flowing into how strategies
1:40
Speaker 2: are being done on crypto itself, translating over to traditional markets.
1:45
Speaker 5: Oh.
1:45
Speaker 6: Absolutely. Crypto is sort of your window into the future.
1:48
Speaker 6: It is showing you what twenty four to seven three
1:50
Speaker 6: sixty five trading means. It means you can react instantaneously
1:54
Speaker 6: to events. But one thing that I think people need
1:57
Speaker 6: to realize is it doesn't repeal human nature. You see
2:01
Speaker 6: a lot of these big exaggerated move Paul on the
2:05
Speaker 6: weekend when the markets are less liquid than they are
2:07
Speaker 6: during the week right, And that's familiar maybe to traditional
2:11
Speaker 6: equity investors who are used to seeing exaggerated moves in
2:15
Speaker 6: after hours trading. As an investor, you should look at
2:18
Speaker 6: those moves skeptically. They don't necessarily reflect changing fundamentals in
2:22
Speaker 6: the space. For example, there's nothing to change fundamentally about
2:26
Speaker 6: crypto this week. The government still printing debt, the existing
2:29
Speaker 6: financial infrastructure is still extraordinarily slow and inefficient. What happened
2:34
Speaker 6: was the market entered it's a liquid period on Sunday night,
2:37
Speaker 6: and there were some cascading liquidations. It's just a feature
2:41
Speaker 6: of this market you have to be ready for for sure.
2:44
Speaker 2: Jim Kramer, he's getting a little cold feed. I think
2:47
Speaker 2: I don't know that he's ready or maybe traditional markets
2:50
Speaker 2: are ready for this. So the fact that we could
2:52
Speaker 2: see these kinds of wild swings around a three sixty
2:56
Speaker 2: five twenty four to seven market that's coming down the pipeline,
3:00
Speaker 2: so I think they're going to have to get in
3:03
Speaker 2: the game and understand this is maybe the future now.
3:06
Speaker 1: So here we are.
3:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. I mean, you have to change your ecosystem.
3:09
Speaker 6: You need trainers who are available to react twenty four
3:12
Speaker 6: to seven, You need algorithms that are able to react
3:14
Speaker 6: twenty four to seven. You have to understand liquidity and
3:17
Speaker 6: illiquidity periods. But there's no turning this back. Right, the
3:21
Speaker 6: long term future is twenty four to seven, three sixty
3:24
Speaker 6: five global trading across all assets. That's what the world wants,
3:29
Speaker 6: that's what the world will get. Crypto is just giving
3:31
Speaker 6: you a glimpse into what that future means, the good
3:34
Speaker 6: parts and the bad parts, the release valve and maybe
3:38
Speaker 6: the Sunday night illiquidity. And it's good to train up
3:41
Speaker 6: on that while crypto is still young.
3:43
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.
3:44
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of kind of this direction of where we're going,
3:48
Speaker 2: I'm looking at your spot ETHTF right here continuing to climb.
3:53
Speaker 1: So there you go. That's a good example. Just you know,
3:55
Speaker 1: if you're.
3:55
Speaker 2: Looking at Holdling and you think about long term investment strategies,
3:59
Speaker 2: this is kind of the structure I think a lot
4:02
Speaker 2: of people are looking at right now when you look
4:05
Speaker 2: at where eth is, where bitcoin is in terms of ETFs,
4:09
Speaker 2: and then the potential of a lot more ETFs. I
4:13
Speaker 2: was looking at your article right here, et Palooza. I
4:16
Speaker 2: love this one. What do you see coming down the
4:20
Speaker 2: pipe that's going to move the needle in a big
4:23
Speaker 2: way for investors, especially around these ETFs.
4:27
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're probably two things to look out for. One
4:29
Speaker 6: is what I mentioned in this article, which is the
4:31
Speaker 6: SEC has cleared the way for a large number.
4:35
Speaker 4: Of crypto ETFs to launch.
4:36
Speaker 6: Right now, we just have bitcoin in eth I suspect
4:39
Speaker 6: in a few months we'll have ETFs on a dozen assets.
4:44
Speaker 6: In six months, we may have ETFs on twenty five assets.
4:47
Speaker 6: So you're going to have this ETF exposure to a
4:50
Speaker 6: large number of assets. The other thing that's happening behind
4:53
Speaker 6: the scenes, maybe fewer headlines, is that national accounts are
4:57
Speaker 6: finally approving spot bitcoin e so folks like Wells, Fargo, Brugan, Stanley,
5:03
Speaker 6: and Merrill Lynch. So you have this this second wave
5:06
Speaker 6: of growth that I think we're going to see in
5:07
Speaker 6: those major assets just when the minor assets hit that first.
5:11
Speaker 4: Wave of growth. Both means more investment capital coming into
5:15
Speaker 4: the crypto market.
5:16
Speaker 5: You know.
5:16
Speaker 6: The World Bank says that institutional and professional investors control
5:19
Speaker 6: one hundred trillion dollars in assets If you think they're
5:22
Speaker 6: going to end up five percent allocated to crypto, that's
5:25
Speaker 6: five trillion dollars that needs to come into the market.
5:29
Speaker 6: That's actually bigger than the entire market cap of crypto.
5:32
Speaker 6: The market cap of crypto right now is just to
5:34
Speaker 6: shade under four trillion dollars. So I think over the
5:37
Speaker 6: next ten years you're going to have multiple trillions of
5:40
Speaker 6: dollars of capital that needs to allocate to crypto. The
5:44
Speaker 6: ETFs have done a little bit, they've done exceptionally well,
5:47
Speaker 6: the fastest growing ETFs of all time, but there's still
5:51
Speaker 6: maybe just a few toes in the water pole from.
5:53
Speaker 4: Where we're going to go.
5:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, you think about toes in the water.
5:55
Speaker 2: This is kind of an interesting trend right here Google trends,
5:59
Speaker 2: Crypto ETF was the search term.
6:01
Speaker 1: You can kind of see it.
6:02
Speaker 2: Guys, this is pretty significant as we start to move
6:05
Speaker 2: into it. The early stage of the Bitcoin ETF. I
6:09
Speaker 2: think help kind of dive into that. But if you
6:12
Speaker 2: look at just where this is going, Solana is really
6:16
Speaker 2: the breakout query that's going. Obviously you mentioned the Solana
6:20
Speaker 2: ETF as being one of the potentials here.
6:23
Speaker 1: Break that down for me.
6:25
Speaker 2: Do you think that it will be the most affected
6:28
Speaker 2: by these digital asset treasuries.
6:29
Speaker 1: How does this play out for you guys.
6:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a great, great question. You know, I wrote
6:34
Speaker 6: another piece called Solana Season. I think Q four is
6:37
Speaker 6: setting up to be an exceptional period for Solana. You
6:40
Speaker 6: have the combination of three ingredients coming together. One, you
6:45
Speaker 6: have the expectation of a large number of Solana etf
6:48
Speaker 6: launching that means flows into those ETFs there's the article.
6:52
Speaker 6: At the same time, you have these digital asset treasury
6:56
Speaker 6: companies run by some of the biggest names in finance,
6:59
Speaker 6: right Kyle's Somani of multi Coin, Dan morehead of Pantera.
7:03
Speaker 6: These are ogs of crypto launching Solana specific strategies. That's
7:08
Speaker 6: more buying of Solana. And then at the third point,
7:12
Speaker 6: you just have this explosion of interest in stable coins
7:15
Speaker 6: and tokenization. Some of that's benefited. The other major beneficiary
7:20
Speaker 6: is Solana. You put all those three things together, it's
7:23
Speaker 6: one of the best setups for a crypto asset that
7:25
Speaker 6: I've seen in the last five plus years. I think
7:30
Speaker 6: it could be if they all come together, an extraordinary
7:33
Speaker 6: Q four for Solana.
7:35
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's what everybody's looking at and timing wise,
7:38
Speaker 2: You're exactly right. I just look at the ether reserves
7:41
Speaker 2: right now continuing to climb up. If you just look
7:44
Speaker 2: at the explosion that we've seen in terms of the
7:46
Speaker 2: digital asset treasury side of things, Solana Avalanche is coming
7:50
Speaker 2: out to market with one. Do you feel that the
7:54
Speaker 2: data companies have a little bit more effect on the
7:57
Speaker 2: current price of the asset? I was looking at just
8:00
Speaker 2: a percentage of supply held right now by publicly traded company.
8:03
Speaker 2: I'm looking at Solana obviously had that big jump. We've
8:08
Speaker 2: also seen just situations with ethan Bitcoin that have continued
8:12
Speaker 2: to go up.
8:12
Speaker 1: What would be your opinion there?
8:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think of it sort of like the tortoise
8:17
Speaker 6: and the hair pole. The dat companies are like the tortoises.
8:20
Speaker 6: They jump into the market raised debt and buy one
8:23
Speaker 6: hundred million dollars slugs, two hundred million dollars slugs, half
8:27
Speaker 6: a trillion dollars, half a billion dollar slugs. The ETFs
8:30
Speaker 6: are more like the hair incrementally each day buying ten, twenty, thirty, forty,
8:35
Speaker 6: which matters more.
8:36
Speaker 4: It depends on your timeframe.
8:38
Speaker 6: Ultimately, the ETFs are going to be the bigger avenue
8:42
Speaker 6: but these digital asseet treasury companies can do step function
8:45
Speaker 6: purchases that really dictate the market. I think keeping that
8:49
Speaker 6: tortoise and hair analogy in mind will help people think
8:52
Speaker 6: about these two approaches.
8:54
Speaker 2: I was noticing this tweet of yours, Bank of England
8:56
Speaker 2: proposing capital controls on citizens.
8:59
Speaker 1: This is crazy.
9:01
Speaker 2: I admissed this to where they would limit the amount
9:04
Speaker 2: of stable coins that you potentially could hold. You're kind
9:09
Speaker 2: of is this a bullish sign or maybe a bar
9:12
Speaker 2: I think this might be a bullish sign.
9:14
Speaker 1: Actually, what's your opinion?
9:16
Speaker 6: It's a bullish sign. It means that they're worried enough
9:19
Speaker 6: about stable coins, which remember two years ago you couldn't
9:22
Speaker 6: get anyone in a suit to take a stable coin seriously.
9:26
Speaker 6: And now Bank of England is worried enough that they're
9:29
Speaker 6: thinking of putting fundamental restrictions on the economic freedom of
9:33
Speaker 6: their citizens to access these things because it may oh
9:36
Speaker 6: pull money out of the banking sector that's taking advantage
9:39
Speaker 6: of them. It's an incredible sign of weakness. Ultimately, it
9:44
Speaker 6: won't stand. Walls can keep in water for a while,
9:47
Speaker 6: but it will find ways to spill out. I think
9:50
Speaker 6: it just shows you how powerful this stable coin narrative
9:53
Speaker 6: is that it has the Bank of England quaking in
9:55
Speaker 6: its boots.
9:56
Speaker 4: I mean that is a big step from where we
9:58
Speaker 4: were a few years ago.
9:59
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, huge.
10:00
Speaker 2: If you just look at what's happening in Europe, I
10:02
Speaker 2: anticipate we're going to see a lot of people kind
10:05
Speaker 2: of moving in that more decentralized fashion, especially around trying
10:09
Speaker 2: to hold you know, wealth, which is the key here
10:13
Speaker 2: for sure.
10:14
Speaker 4: That's right.
10:14
Speaker 6: We've been trapping people in their own geography and forcing
10:17
Speaker 6: them to have no choice in their currency. Bitcoins started
10:21
Speaker 6: to break that you didn't need to be government based,
10:23
Speaker 6: you could hold something that's independent of that. Stable Coins
10:27
Speaker 6: are another way you don't need to be local currency.
10:29
Speaker 6: You could be in the dollar, which is the cleanest
10:32
Speaker 6: dirty shirt in the fiat currency world. From my perspective,
10:36
Speaker 6: more choice is better for investors, it's empowering for individuals,
10:40
Speaker 6: and these sort of last gas efforts from people like
10:43
Speaker 6: the Bank of England shows you that the time is
10:45
Speaker 6: now that they're really ascended, that they're globally important.
10:48
Speaker 2: Speaking about the time as now, we've been doing some
10:51
Speaker 2: research on bit wise, so I'm looking at returns, which
10:56
Speaker 2: has been you know, absolutely amazing. And look at the
11:00
Speaker 2: fund holdings here and you know, you look at just
11:04
Speaker 2: the top four assets there, Bitcoin Ethereum, XRP, Solana, Cardonald's
11:09
Speaker 2: even got a position chainey Avalanche. With everything that's happening
11:12
Speaker 2: with avas, what we're seeing in in general, with some
11:17
Speaker 2: of these assets, is it time to rebalance on this
11:19
Speaker 2: or do you feel, hey, no, this is Paul, this
11:21
Speaker 2: is this is the lock.
11:22
Speaker 1: We're going to go with this.
11:23
Speaker 4: Well, I love the question.
11:25
Speaker 5: You know.
11:25
Speaker 6: The funny thing about looking at this chart, this list
11:27
Speaker 6: of assets in our index, the bit wise ten is
11:30
Speaker 6: depending on what day you asked me, I might.
11:33
Speaker 4: Be more excited about one in one asset or the other.
11:37
Speaker 6: The way I think about this portfolio for most investors
11:40
Speaker 6: is that this is your core. This is a market
11:43
Speaker 6: cap weighted portfolio. It owns assets in direct proportion to
11:47
Speaker 6: their size in the market, and that's your core. And
11:50
Speaker 6: then most people will want a satellite that lets them overweight.
11:53
Speaker 6: You may look at what Scaramucci is doing with the
11:55
Speaker 6: Avalanche Digital Asset Treasury Company and say that's going to
11:59
Speaker 6: be hot.
12:00
Speaker 4: I want to overweight Avalanche.
12:02
Speaker 6: You may look at what's happening in Solana Hogan says,
12:04
Speaker 6: it's Solana season.
12:06
Speaker 4: I want to overweight Solana. We love that.
12:09
Speaker 6: But I think that index, which is like the S
12:11
Speaker 6: and P five hundred, can be your core and then
12:13
Speaker 6: people can over and underweight from there.
12:15
Speaker 4: That's what I do with my own personal portfolio. I
12:17
Speaker 4: think a lot of people will as well.
12:19
Speaker 2: This is like the Matt Hogan's twenty greatest hits. Today
12:24
Speaker 2: I'm looking at I'm looking at another one of your
12:26
Speaker 2: tweets here, gold over silver and then Bitcoin over gold.
12:30
Speaker 2: Now at the same time, we just had one of
12:34
Speaker 2: the top guys I think in gold out there, Andy Sheckman.
12:37
Speaker 2: He was on the show last week and he and
12:39
Speaker 2: I were talking about it. He went the other direction.
12:42
Speaker 2: He went the direction of silver because he was saying,
12:44
Speaker 2: this forty five year breakout was absolutely insane. How would
12:49
Speaker 2: you position right now with silver pumping gold shirt? Yes,
12:53
Speaker 2: all time high? How would you play this out? I'm
12:56
Speaker 2: just kind of curious of your transition.
12:59
Speaker 6: I love that quies and it goes back almost to
13:02
Speaker 6: what we were talking about earlier. It's a matter of timeframe.
13:05
Speaker 6: I was speaking from a history of money perspective. I
13:07
Speaker 6: read a great book, The Secret History of Gold It
13:11
Speaker 6: talked about why gold was money more so than silver.
13:14
Speaker 6: One of the primary reasons was it was more dense
13:16
Speaker 6: and easier to move. You could store a lot more
13:19
Speaker 6: wealth in a small amount of gold than you could
13:21
Speaker 6: in silver. Put a billion dollars in silver, it might
13:23
Speaker 6: sink your ship. The reason bitcoin over gold is you
13:27
Speaker 6: can store an infinite amount of wealth no space. With bitcoin,
13:31
Speaker 6: you can move it around at the speed of light.
13:33
Speaker 6: That's why I think bitcoin is ultimately ascended. Ultimately will
13:36
Speaker 6: be a bigger asset than even gold, which will remain
13:39
Speaker 6: bigger than silver, because it's better on those core monetary statistics.
13:44
Speaker 6: From or characteristics from a short term perspective, I don't know.
13:48
Speaker 6: Silver is more exposed to economic trends than gold and bitcoin.
13:54
Speaker 6: I'm more worried about economic growth than I am about
13:58
Speaker 6: rising interest in fiata edges. Therefore I lean more towards
14:02
Speaker 6: gold and specifically towards bitcoin. But look, I think all
14:06
Speaker 6: of those hard assets, I think the tide is rising
14:08
Speaker 6: on all of them. I think investors are fed up
14:11
Speaker 6: with what's going on in fiat currency. You see a
14:13
Speaker 6: bid for gold, silver, bitcoin, other metals, I think that
14:18
Speaker 6: is a rising tide across the board.
14:19
Speaker 2: Well, we haven't seen TOKENI silver just yet. I'm looking
14:22
Speaker 2: at SLV there. This is just the ETF. But if
14:26
Speaker 2: you look at XAET obviously Paxos G which is gold
14:32
Speaker 2: on Paxos, all of these are going to open up
14:36
Speaker 2: in terms of access to a lot more traders.
14:39
Speaker 1: So what is your theory on Token I silver.
14:42
Speaker 2: Do you think Paxos is going to pull the trigger
14:44
Speaker 2: on this or you think we may get another player
14:45
Speaker 2: coming in?
14:46
Speaker 6: Oh, great question. I'm sure somebody is looking at it. Look,
14:49
Speaker 6: all those charts are screaming that investors want exposure to
14:52
Speaker 6: these hard assets and they want them twenty four to seven,
14:55
Speaker 6: three sixty five.
14:56
Speaker 4: I think we're going to tokenize everything. So who's going
14:58
Speaker 4: to do it? I don't know.
15:00
Speaker 6: Maybe it's Pacso's great company. I think they'll be successful
15:04
Speaker 6: in that market. The thing for investors to look at
15:07
Speaker 6: it thirty thousand foot view is each of those assets
15:12
Speaker 6: is up into the right. They're telling you something and
15:14
Speaker 6: they're telling it loudly. The thing that unites those stories.
15:17
Speaker 6: The best looking charts in finance are all hard assets.
15:21
Speaker 4: They're all doing that.
15:22
Speaker 6: What they're telling you is there's rise and concern about
15:24
Speaker 6: fiat debasement that I think is going to accelerate, and
15:28
Speaker 6: you know, pick your horse, Paul, but they're may be
15:31
Speaker 6: all going to win at this derby.
15:33
Speaker 1: Well, it's good diversification.
15:34
Speaker 2: I think in general, you look at what really what
15:37
Speaker 2: a lot of cash positions are trying to do right now.
15:41
Speaker 2: To your point, is the debasement side of it. You know,
15:43
Speaker 2: if you look at that argument, you need a lot
15:46
Speaker 2: more alternatives because it does start to get away from
15:49
Speaker 2: the US dollar, at least to a certain extent. Speaking
15:52
Speaker 2: of diversification, I'm looking also at the Web three side
15:56
Speaker 2: of bitwise, Web three ETF and I'm looking at top
15:59
Speaker 2: ten holdings here. Roadblocks catches my attention very quickly, just
16:05
Speaker 2: because they've continued to have really positive news. Do you
16:09
Speaker 2: think they are going to enable Web three functionality on Roadblocks?
16:14
Speaker 4: You know, I do.
16:15
Speaker 6: Ultimately that's been the direction of that business since it's founding, right,
16:19
Speaker 6: It's sort of been occupying that world. It understands that
16:22
Speaker 6: ownership is important, it understands that decentralization is important. I
16:26
Speaker 6: know a lot of people look at something like that.
16:28
Speaker 6: It's like Roadblocks, a gaming company at the top of
16:31
Speaker 6: a Web three Remember that if you look at Internet investments,
16:34
Speaker 6: one of the best performing Internet investments of all time,
16:37
Speaker 6: far better than say Google, over the last twenty years,
16:40
Speaker 6: has been Netflix. Right, they're different ways to monetize these
16:44
Speaker 6: new capabilities. There were different ways to monetize the Internet.
16:47
Speaker 6: There are different ways to monetize Web three gaming is
16:50
Speaker 6: one of them companies doing extraordinarily well.
16:53
Speaker 2: Do you think what are we talking about, Matt? Is
16:55
Speaker 2: it next year maybe twenty seven?
16:58
Speaker 1: What do you feel like? I mean is do you
17:00
Speaker 1: think that we're going to.
17:01
Speaker 2: See companies like roadblocks barreling toward making some major decision
17:05
Speaker 2: just because of what's happening in the administrative side.
17:09
Speaker 6: It's a good question. We're clearing the regulatory roadblocks. It
17:13
Speaker 6: depends on the pathway toward that. These things always take longer.
17:19
Speaker 6: You know the old quip about people overestimate what can
17:23
Speaker 6: change in one year and underestimate what can change in years.
17:26
Speaker 4: I think that applies here.
17:28
Speaker 6: But the market recognizes it before the fundamentals arrive. That's
17:32
Speaker 6: the way markets work, and so I think you can
17:35
Speaker 6: look at the performance if you pull up a chart
17:37
Speaker 6: of that etf B web versus the Nasdaq one hundred
17:41
Speaker 6: cues over the last couple of years. What you'll see
17:44
Speaker 6: is that the market is recognizing the performance of these
17:46
Speaker 6: extraordinary companies, and one will show up in the earnings
17:51
Speaker 6: and the new announcements.
17:52
Speaker 4: Again, it will take time, but it's starting to move
17:55
Speaker 4: in that direction.
17:55
Speaker 2: Listen, there is a gauntlet being thrown down by mister
17:58
Speaker 2: Kevin O'Leary, and the gauntlet is he thinks he's going
18:02
Speaker 2: to win in this new area of tokenized assets that
18:07
Speaker 2: are mostly collectible. As you look at secure, which is
18:09
Speaker 2: there ne collectibles thing? Why wouldn't bitwise launch something like this.
18:13
Speaker 2: I'm thinking you guys could do this.
18:15
Speaker 4: I love it.
18:16
Speaker 6: I love the suggestion. Bill has is looking increasingly at
18:20
Speaker 6: what we can do on chain.
18:22
Speaker 4: I will leave it at that. I don't know if
18:24
Speaker 4: I'm going head to head with mister wonderful, but.
18:27
Speaker 2: Wonder shine that's what he's claiming. I got a clip
18:29
Speaker 2: for you just to understand, because you got to listen
18:31
Speaker 2: to this clip.
18:32
Speaker 1: It's a good one. Here, Matt, let's go to that one.
18:34
Speaker 4: I want an index.
18:35
Speaker 5: I want el soaprimo, grown men weep when they see
18:40
Speaker 5: them kind of cards. Since that news broke, I didn't
18:43
Speaker 5: realize how big that news was going to be. Is
18:45
Speaker 5: that where you get the majority of the appreciation. Turns
18:49
Speaker 5: out that's true. I don't want any crap. I want
18:52
Speaker 5: El Supremo. I'm going to release this index pretty soon.
18:55
Speaker 5: I think grown men are going to weep when they
18:56
Speaker 5: see this. Bring on the competition, bring it on, just try.
19:00
Speaker 5: It's going to become the gold standard. It should be
19:03
Speaker 5: valued daily, just like a portfolio of watches is. I
19:06
Speaker 5: don't want to be that rich asshole that hoardes these things.
19:09
Speaker 5: I want people to be able to see them. And
19:10
Speaker 5: just like I share my watches, I always have two
19:13
Speaker 5: watches on.
19:13
Speaker 1: I share them all right.
19:15
Speaker 2: So there's a Leary, you know, you can kind of
19:17
Speaker 2: see he's having fun with this, getting into an index
19:20
Speaker 2: with wonder Shine. So I'm just wondering. I think we're
19:23
Speaker 2: going to see more of these coming out, especially with collectibles.
19:27
Speaker 2: The ability of on chain assets rdba's are going to
19:29
Speaker 2: be a big part of this in the future. So
19:32
Speaker 2: I'm thinking bit wise is going to be here.
19:33
Speaker 4: Man, I love it. I love it. Well, we'll see.
19:36
Speaker 4: I gotta get my first watch.
19:38
Speaker 6: I'm watchless, so that one.
19:42
Speaker 4: All right.
19:43
Speaker 2: Matt Listen has been great having you on today.
19:45
Speaker 1: Thanks so much.
19:46
Speaker 2: We're watching bitwise very closely. You guys are making some moves,
19:48
Speaker 2: so thanks for coming in. I appreciate it.
19:50
Speaker 4: Thanks, Paul, appreciate it.
19:52
Speaker 2: You bet see you all right, You guys, get into
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