Latest / Skin Anarchy / Sue Phillips Returns: Unveiling the Secrets of Fragrance Creation- E.444

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Sue Phillips Returns: Unveiling the Secrets of Fragrance Creation- E.444 · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Before the episode starts, I wanted to pop in and just say a huge thank you to all of you out there.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: We have officially hit four million downloads for the show in less than three years.
• 0:45
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• 0:47
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• 0:48
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• 0:54
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• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I know that you guys have been listening to mostly all of our episodes, and I really love that because what I'm realizing is the new beauty consumer is evolving and you guys are changing, you're turning into this holistic, you know, individual that wants all of the information in a really meaningful way.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I'm realizing, you know, as just somebody who observes our data, somebody who goes through all of your comments and reads your emails and your comp, your just you know, all of the feedback that you give us, like I see all of it, and I honestly cannot be happier because I love to see how much people are hungry for this information.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, with all that being said, I wanted to just mention that you know we are expanding right now.
• 1:50
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• 1:56
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• 2:00
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• 2:13
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• 2:17
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• 2:22
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• 2:27
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• 2:42
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• 2:44
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• 2:47
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• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, thank you so much again, and thank you so much to four freaking million downloads.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: All right, guys, unless you get to the Fragrance Friday episode.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you love it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sue is such a genius, and I think you're gonna really love this part two with her.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Fragrance Fridays.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very, very excited because we have the Queen of Fragrance herself here with us again today, Sue Phillips.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're gonna be discussing a lot of the questions that I didn't have a chance to ask Sue in the initial episode, um, where she kind of introduced us to her work and just all the wonderful things she's done um in her, you know, in her years in the fragrance industry.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome back to the show, Sue.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored and delighted to host you.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to be here and thank you very much for having me.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's it's an honor, like I said, and I can't wait to learn from you again.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, last time it was so wonderful to learn about your journey with um all of the patients that you've helped with, you know, um, for everyone listening, if you haven't had a chance to check that first episode out last time, we uh Sue really shared her work with um anosmia patients who are patients who can't really smell and well they can't smell and her work and in not only helping them, curing them.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm really excited to do a follow-up to that.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Sue, I'd love to get started.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you could um give us a little bit of a background again, like just to introduce our listeners to who, you know, the people who didn't get to check out the first interview about your background in the Ferguson industry and just you know how long you've been here and all the all the wonderful things in your career.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Today is actually a very special day for me.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Today is my 46th anniversary in America.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, oh my gosh, congratulations!
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, thank you.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: I arrived on March the 21st, 1977.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was a bitterly cold day.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was supposed to be, you know, the first day of spring, but it was so cold.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, yesterday was very much like that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was a very cold day, but lovely, sunny, and bright.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: So um, this is always a very special day for me.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, I have been here.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: My journey really began when I arrived in America.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I had always wanted to be a singer and an actress, and um, I went to see uh an immigration attorney.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Forget that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: We have thousands of outer work singers and actresses, we don't need another one.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And uh what he said is that you know, he said, Did you ever do uh what else can you do?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, my mother always said have something to fall back on.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: So at that time I had done a secretarial course.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Well, were you any good?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, he asked the question, I knew that was my ticket into America.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Yes, I was great.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um he actually played hard.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was with him for about a year.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went to uh Headhunter at the end of that year, and I got three job offers in one week.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: One was to work in a bank, which wasn't for me, one was to work in fashion, which I didn't feel was appropriate because you know, in South Africa at that time we were so fashion backwards, we weren't fashion forward at all.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: And the third job offer was to really uh work at Elizabeth Arden.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, ah, there's such a correlation between theater and show business and cosmetics.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how I started in the cosmetics industry.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I love that, you know, you you have this like organic journey of how you went into your the niche that you ended up in because I feel like sometimes, you know, people um, well, from my what I hear at least, you know, especially with the younger generation, they're so focused on just, you know, you gotta get this exact skill set.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, you know, there's very little room left there to create and to explore.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm I'm I love hearing about your journey because it's so it's organic and it's natural.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think it really, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, probably plays into your genius, you know, as you've created so many fragrances for brands and people, you know.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's very interesting you say that because when I first came to America, everybody was saying, oh, you know, you have to be have an expertise, you've got to be an expert in something.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, you know, we were all generalists, you know, coming, you know, also many, many years ago, they weren't things weren't as finite as they are now.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're an expert in SEO and you're an expert in this and that and so on.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: And truly coming from a country like South Africa where we were so, you know, uh basically, you know, what's the word I'm looking at?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we were really ostracized at that time because of the political situation.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we didn't have television, we didn't have computers, we didn't have cell phones, and I'm talking about, you know, years ago.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so you had to become a generalist.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that was so interesting that you mentioned that because you know, coming to America, then I did land up at Elizabeth Arden.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And because my mother was such an amazing artist and a musician and a singer, I loved the arts and I became very involved in the arts.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: My father was a businessman, so I had both skill sets.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was actually able to sort of navigate my way around the business and the arts and culture.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And at Elizabeth Arden, you know, they hired me and I became the national training director because I could stand up in front of people and sing and perform and act.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so they wanted me to be the training director to really train the people behind the counter about fragrance.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's very interesting that through my background of art and music and culture, I was able to bring those aspects into fragrance because fragrance is actually our most powerful sense.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it really connects memory and emotion and smell and taste.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And just, you know, when you think of music, you know, you think about the symphony of music and the composition and the no and the the the vocabulary is so similar.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So everything that you know I've done sort of revolves around all the arts and fragrance is both an art and a science.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I've really navigated my way through all of that, actually.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love how well articulated, you know, your explanation was there.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's something that a lot of people can really learn from is this idea of, you know, um, you know, there is no finite lines when it comes to true artistry.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I completely resonate with what you said, you know, and that really leads me to ask you.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, how do you approach um, you know, I know you've created so many beautiful fragrances, you know, and and especially with the that personalized touch that you bring to everything.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I want to know how do you approach creating a fragrance for like a specific brand or a product and ensuring that it aligns with that brand's image and values?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how how does that whole process work for you?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let me start by saying, first of all, I am not a perfumer, I've never studied organic chemistry.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, my so, which I'm sure you have and and many people have, but my my interest in fragrance is really coming from within.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's really what does that fragrance mean for you?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that I'm in a lab mixing and matching molecules, but that's not what I do.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I think about a fragrance in my head and in my heart.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, what does that fragrance need to be?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: What is that brand?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: What is the brand essence?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: What is the emotion that a fragrance wants to evoke?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how I really create the fragrance.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think about you know, the Tiffany fragrance and Burberry and Trish McAvoy and Avon, all the fragrances that I've created, it really comes from the within.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: It comes from what is the DNA of that brand, what is the DNA of that person, how do they want to feel, how do they want to you know um what emotion do they want to evoke and what fragrance do they want to really feel that represents them and represents and reflects their individuality and their personality.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's so easy to go to the store and say, Oh, I want this and that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: But it has to it has to have a certain resonance, it has to have an authenticity.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I think about creating a fragrance, whether it's for a brand or a person or myself, you know, it all stems from the emotion.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: What is that emotion?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: How do I want to feel when I'm wear the fragrance?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: How do I want that fragrance to diffuse so that other people can get that feeling?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's so funny.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: I just had a I had a phone call from somebody uh just before you called me.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a gentleman that told me that um his daughter and he want to recreate a fragrance that his father, who had just passed away, wore.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, We really want to create this fragrance.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we really don't know what he had, what fragrance he wore, but we have all the essences in his clothes.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, fragment fragrances shouldn't wear fragrance on their clothes, but you know, these materials basically, you know, um reflect the fragrance and it it's translated when you wear a fragrance, it's obviously transported into the clothing.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so the fibers basically capture the molecules.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I said, Well, have them come in, I don't come in.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, when I go through that with them, they know what type of fragrance the father wore or the grandfather wore, and it's gonna be up to me to try and interpret that for them based on what I'm gonna be obviously smelling when they bring the clothing to me, but at the same time, the essence of that grandfather and who he was.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's so fascinating.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I get all kinds of requests from everybody.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is so cool though.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, that's so interesting to me because you know what you said is it's just so brilliant in the sense that, you know, fragrance is about eliciting a set of emotions and almost nostalgia, right?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's something for me.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I really resonate with your um philosophy that you shared with us because for me it's always been like that as well, where you know, the fragrances that I can recall, you know, even gravitating towards in my early 20s or, you know, whenever it was, it was always linked to something like maybe like a summer day or like you know, maybe um somewhere I had gone with my family that I really wanted to like carry with me everywhere.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I remember, you know, just being younger and just trying out, you know, just like department fragrances, department store fragrances, and thinking, you know, oh no, this doesn't remind me of the ocean as much as I wanted to, or it doesn't it remind me of like, you know, the kind of trees that I was around, you know, on that specific time when I went to XYZ Place.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's such a, you know, what you said is so, so true in just how consumers I uh think.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's more so even on a subconscious level that they're thinking like this rather than even, you know, consciously, because I mean, think about it for everyone listening out there, how many times have you smelled something and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't know what it is about this scent, but it's bringing me all sorts of amazing memories and it's bringing back a lot of things for me that I love.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something we can't explain, you know, even with something like what you had mentioned to like organic chemistry, like we can't explain that.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just it's just a feeling that gets elicited in your old factory system.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that that's your approach, and I love that you've really carried that philosophy forward.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's very unique to still see that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of um, you know, perfumers nowadays, they are getting more heavily involved in this technical side of things, which is okay.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that that philosophy needs to stay intact, you know?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you said that because you know, I've been in the fragrance industry for so long.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it used to be that, you know, when we were creating a fragrance, when I created the Tiffany fragrance, I went over to Paris and I worked with the chief perfumer from Chanel.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: We really explored the whole ethos of what the Tiffany fragrance was, what the Tiffany brand was.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we do this with so many different uh brands, but you know, you'd actually sit and work with a perfume, and the perfumer has all the technical aspect, the molecules, the ingredients, and the chemistry.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And interpreting the brand essence is something that a perfumer has to do.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: He has to understand the chemistry, but also understand the artistry of what that brand should be.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, today with AI, and there's so much of this going on, you know, people don't even sit with a perfumer.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: You just give a brief, you say what you want, it goes into a machine, it goes into the computer, and boom, boom, boom, out pops in that fragrance.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: To me, it really has nothing to do with the emotion of a brand.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm saddened that that sort of aspect of real personalization and real understanding what that brand is, is going to go the way of computers.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, do we need computers in our life?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do we need cell phones in our life?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Has it has it made our life easier?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: In some instances, yes.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: In some instances, it's complicated us because there's so many, you know, options.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that when you know, it would be like the idea of asking an artist, an artist to just put all the colours in a mix master and pop out a painting without any understanding.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, that takes away from that beautiful artistry.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think there's pros and cons, but for me, the idea of really understanding how fragrance is so connected to memory and so connected to emotion is something that I hope we never, never forget.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Particularly, you know, with so many people having lost their sense of smell because of COVID.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've now helped about 200 people in the last year and a half who have lost their sense of smell because of COVID.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I will tell you honestly that when they meet with me, they are devastated.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: They can't smell, they can't taste, they can't enjoy life.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so much so much of our socialization stems from the fact of you know going out for lunch, for dinner, for tea, for breakfast, for celebrations with weddings and and wonderful, wonderful celebratory events.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And when people can't smell, they can't taste because they are so connected.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Our factory sense is so tied into our gastratory, into sense and taste.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: So if people can't smell, guess what?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: They don't have an aspect of tasting.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so life becomes very, very dull and very, very sad because you know, part of the pleasure of life is enjoying food and and aromas and taste and you know, celebrating.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't have that, it's devastating.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so one of the things that people have now realized is how important our sense of smell is because when it's taken away and it's you're robbed of it, it's awful.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's where I find your work to be so like next level and just very unique.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because for someone to say, you know, yes, I'm a perfumer, that's a wonderful thing, but for someone to say, you know, you you've worked with people who've lost the sense of smell.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And to bring that back, I mean, that requires, I mean, going back to your point of like being able to feel what a fragrance really means, you know, and that feeling and that that that's a gift, you know, and I'm so glad that you have it because I'm not kidding, even, you know, when I look around in my own generation and I see people, you know, um indulging in fragrances, and now we've got this whole hype around, like you had mentioned AI, but even more, you know, even going further, this whole gender neutral thing going on with fragrance, and you know, there's just so many buzzwords now, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I always sit there and wonder to myself, why do we need any of that?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if a fragrance, you know, like it's like if it works, if it makes you feel good, then it makes you feel good.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't need to put like labels on it and make it this big complicated thing, you know.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there is complication there, you know, obviously in the mind of a true expert such as yourself, you know, as you're analyzing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: But for the general consumer, we don't need to overanalyze things like gender neutrality and you know, AI development.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at the end of the day, Sue, if I were to go to an AI and say, create something for me, I would still have to give it a reference point.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think, you know, and so that's where I think I think consumers get lost because even if you were, like you had used such a wonderful example of the painting, you know, scenario where, you know, if I go to an AI system and say, paint me a painting in the style of Van Gogh, well, you're going to have to give it the name of Van Gogh and say, I want this style of painting.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just as if if I were to go to the AI and say, make me a perfume that is similar to Sue Phillips' fragrances.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I would have to give it the, you know what I mean, like the reference point.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: It can't do it out of nowhere.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, that whole area of technology, like you said, it's cool.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's cool that it's there, great that it's there, wonderful to utilize technology, but we cannot forget the true like artistry and the true like, you know, vision that is the first, you know, starting place.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something you can't recreate with technology.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: That that's something that comes from talent.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, with that said, Sue, I want to ask you, you know, when you make your personalized fragrances, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what is it that you really um, I know you have a wonderful like system on the website.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like for everyone listening, you know, when you um check out Sue's website, the Centreprises, I believe, right?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll link everything in the in the question.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have two.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have centerprises.com, which is my company name.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: But then, you know, a few years ago, people said, Sue, you're the brand, you've got to have Sue Phillips.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I finally somehow, thankfully, registered and trademarked Sue Phillips, and then I have Sue Philips.com.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I have two.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I you know, and so when we go onto the website, I've done this myself, and um Sue has created, by the way, just a marvelous fragrance for me, which I'm very thankful for.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, when you go there, you see the you see the questions that are asked and and you know, the holistic nature of those questions.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I my question uh my question for you really comes down to you know, um, how do you Like once you've gotten that data right from the consumer and from the person, how do you go about your process of saying, Okay, I've got all these answers.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now I have to sit with this and figure out what is this personalized fragrance going to be.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, thank you for that.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, what it is basically the data that I have is actually really just a very simple quiz.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's a questionnaire.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I came up with 12 different questions, which are lifestyle questions.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's nothing to do with gender, it's nothing to do with men or women, it's really to do with what aspects do you really love.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: For instance, the time of day or the art or music or uh furniture, even, even the time of day, uh, even the foods that you like.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And when I look at all those answers and I get the the um sort of the aspect of who the person is, whether, okay, if it's a man or a woman, uh, what the age gender what the age is, I kind of put all the answers together and I start to really think about well, do that does that person like mostly woodsy fragrances or fresh fragrances or citrus or florals?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that I always have said is that there is no such thing as a gender ingredient.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's no such thing as masculine oranges or feminine peaches.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why do we have to use those marketing terms?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Fragrance purom, fragrances purfam.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Those are just marketing terms.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, guess what?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Centuries ago, people, men, loved florals, rose and jasmine and gardenia.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't necessarily just for women.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and woodsy and spicy fragrances aren't necessarily for men.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are a really outdoor, sort of uh sporty type of type of fra person, you're not going to want heavy, sophisticated fragrances.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a very sort of uh, let's say, cerebral person and you very much like sort of natural fragrances, you're not going to want something too floral or too citrusy.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a question of understanding what the DNA of that person is and understanding that if a person, you know, uh if the results come out that they like mostly roses or jasmins or or lavender, it's not necessarily for a man or for a woman.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: It could be for anybody.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we should get rid of you know rid of the notion that florals are only for women and woodsy are only for men.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, ingredients, beautiful flowers have existed for centuries.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so we should explore and understand and celebrate those beautiful ingredients and not just say, well, this is targeted just for women or just for men.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Just enjoy those gorgeous ingredients that nature has provided.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, I 100% agree with you.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, just to even add to what you shared is that, you know, I if you do go back centuries and centuries ago and you look at you know different civilizations, you know, such as Egypt or even in the Far East, you'll notice that you know, there were so many norms when it came to fashion or fragrance or anything that were now we would consider as female oriented, but back then it was just what it was, you know, men wore earrings as well, you know, they wore exactly toga is is a form of a dress, you know.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, and you know, and using things like, for example, in the Far East, you know, it was like cherry blossom, you know, the flower extract.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everyone was utilizing this in India, you know, the essence, like, for example, we know of like certain smells of incense and stuff, but those are all scents and oils being utilized by royalty, you know, men and women in royal families.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: So for us to now live in a culture where we are so, you know, we're so poised to polarize everything, it just bothers me.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it puts us in boxes that we don't need to be in, you know.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I I'm just, you know, I'm very much on the same page as you, Sue, when it comes to that, your your opinion on this, because I I think that we really do need to see that shift go back to just that, you know, that how it has been for centuries, because I think that's where we're gonna get to play more, you know, as a society.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and you said a wonderful word to play more.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Play, experiment, have the experiences of enjoying different ingredients that reflect different parts of us.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're not just one person, we're just not one aspect, but we can be flirtatious, we can be sexy, we can be essential, we can be confident, we can be serious.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: So why not explore all those aspects of who we are and explore it through beautiful ingredients?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't have to be related to one type, you know, you're not just a floral person, you might be a mixture of florals and woodsy and spicy that give you that wonderful aspect of who you are.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, absolutely.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and uh speaking on that um topic of notes, you know, I would love to get your your personal preference, you know, of notes that you really enjoy and your fragrances that you like to utilize for yourself, you know, on a personal level, if you could share that with us.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, so I I am definitely uh I'm not a shy, retiring person.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: I used to be, I used to be quite shy.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's hard to imagine, but you know, for me, I love to have that sort of feeling of CR, the expression of a fragrance that you wear that sort of has it leaves a trail that's very mysterious and you can't really identify what it is.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, the trail of fragrance that I wear and that I like to emit, if you will, is something quite complex.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's a mixture and it's almost like a journey of fragrance of the rose and gardenia mixed with a beautiful heavy sheep and maybe some woodsy and spicy notes.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not specifically a fresh person.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: For me, light, bright, citrusy scents are wonderful, but I prefer something a little bit more robust, a little bit more sensual, a little bit more um feeling of florals will do that for me, woodsy notes will do that for me, some sexy amber notes will do that, some musks.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not a particular type, but I love to explore different moods for different occasions, and and fragrance will do that for me.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love how I feel, you know.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: I might feel very coquettish one day and want a certain type of fragrance, and then I might be quite serious another day and want something else.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: So for me to explore, you know, it's like colours.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: Can you ever just say I only like one color?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's a myriad of colours, you know.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: We all love to experience different flowers and different colours and different music for different occasions.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think people need to open up their their bandwidth in a way and say, Well, you know, today I'm a I'm able to experience and explore all the notes, all the types of music, all the types of colors of art and fragrance, so that you really become a much more complex person as opposed to a single note.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and see, I love that you said that because I think that's something that we all get scared of, if I'm honest.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, for example, like, you know, um, I'm sure you're very familiar with all the reviews around like uh the fragrance that's viral right now, Baccarat Rouge 540, you know, and everyone's talking about how, you know, this fragrance specifically is very, it's too complex, you know, it's too some people love it and some people say it's too complex.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, what is too complex?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that is a very vague statement.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's uh it's almost like saying you can't deal with all the notes and or all the different things that it's listening.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we as a society, we've come to this point of saying, you know, we need that one or two, you know, kind of uh level of whatever it is we're doing, you know, whether it's with makeup, cosmetics, or even fragrance, we want just either fresh and fruity or you know, musky and and just darker.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like we don't know how to like our sensory systems.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we've kind of tricked them into thinking you can't experience multiple things, you know, in in your fragrance.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to get your feedback on that and how consumers should approach a fragrance.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how should we be utilizing our fragrance so that it is, you know, um being worn the, I guess, the correct way or whatever way is just optimal for us to really experience it.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it's interesting you asked that question because even so, there are certain cultures who prefer certain types of fragrances.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so there are those cultural types, for instance, a very, very generalized expression is most Americans love fresh and clean.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now, why is that?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think as a society, Americans have deodorized themselves to such an extent that they think fresh and clean is the way to go.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: So everything that you wear in America has a lemon scent, it's very fresh and clean.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: In um in the South America, they love very spicy notes.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: In Europe, they tend to like florals, in England, they tend to like lavender.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: In the Middle East, they love ood, ood, oud.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so there are certain fragrances in the in the Middle East that are so heavy and so part of that culture that it's just very fresh and clean would not work well for them at all.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in Japan, for instance, they don't really wear fragrance, it's really given as a gift.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: So even though I'm saying and that we believe that people should explore different notes, there are cultural differences that really denote what type of fragrances or fragrance families are more attuned for that particular culture.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't say it doesn't mean that a Middle East person should only stick to ouds, they should also enjoy the other types, the florals and the like citruses and the spicy notes as well.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I think if you limit yourself, it becomes very, very again limiting.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think people should explore and just enjoy all the different ingredients that are able to be expressed and developed in a beautiful perfume.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, I completely agree with you.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's you know, such a wonderful point you made about cultures.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that culture is something that we have definitely not explored enough in the sense of like mainstream media and news around fragrance and and scents.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's something I don't see enough of, you know, in terms of like just either written about or talked about.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I always wonder why, because, you know, me, I mean, I was born in India and I was raised in America.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: However, you know, my my roots of you know, my family's from India, everything was there, you know, growing up.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember, you know, there was a very cultural, um, heavy component in what I grew up liking as a scent.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if my mother was burning a specific incense in her temple or, you know, something like that.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Those things like they really shape the way I personally as a consumer approach fragrance now, you know.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when I'm smelling a scent, even though I'm American and I've grown up in America and I'm a citizen and all that stuff, I still gravitate more towards these like more um, I guess, complex scents that are more eastern, you know, you could say, you know, and I think that's where culture really shines because it shows you how we are programmed by what we grow up around and how that is such an important factor, especially now that you know fragrance is becoming more strain, more mainstream, you know, like before there was no such thing as fragrance TikTok, you know what I mean?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And like and all the social media.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: So now that we're really putting it out there, I think it's really, really important for us to focus on the cultural aspect of these, you know, of understanding fragrance.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I love that you brought that up.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's look, you know, we also are the sum total of what we know we were raised with.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: So in for instance, if you're from India, the Indian sort of bias towards fragrances is those beautiful, heavy incense, spicy notes, ambery notes.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, one of the finest, um some of the finest ingredients, uh, the spices come from India.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: And Madagascar has the finest vanilla.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, um so if you're a child growing up in those certain areas, those are the things that are going to make you feel comfortable, comfort, emotional, tied into your background, tied into your home, your your family.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the things that make you feel happy.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you I guess grow up and you want to some have something that gives you a feeling of nostalgia and comfort, you'll return to those notes that give you that feeling of home, feeling, background, familiarity, comfort, emotion, all those things.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: And but it doesn't mean you can't explore and express and enjoy other aspects as well.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, 100%.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I fully agree with you.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's more of just like being open-minded.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you develop this understanding that, you know, there are multiple cultures out there and you should dive in and explore, you automatically, you know, broaden your scent horizons, you know, like you really, you really do.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I I completely agree with you.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's it's really fascinating to me because I think now, especially now, you know, um, again, with with all the social media raving around, you know, rave around fragrance and scents, um, people are, I think, also connecting more with other cultures.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I love seeing that.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, my my question to you really is, you know, how do you see the fragrance world like 10 years from now?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like if someone were to ask you to put like a time capsule written letter, you know, somewhere, like what would you predict?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's a it's a big question, but I would love to big question.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, a very simple answer is how do I see fragrances in 10 years?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: I still think that when you wear a fragrance and you have a certain feeling that you want to just have that feeling of joy and happiness and comfort.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: So what does that mean?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: So if it means that those sort of attributes go back to your childhood, then that's fine.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: But if it means that you've you know extra traveled and you've explored different cultures, and you've gone to say a Copenhagen, you've gone to uh South Africa, you've gone to India, uh, and you're open to explore different aromas and different cultures, why not?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I still think that even in 10 years' time, uh fragrance should give you the feeling of experimentation, of experience, of joy.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, happiness, joy, love, comfort are all the things that people strive for and have strived for for centuries.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it shouldn't just be that, you know, just because we're in the world of computer and technology that we can't go back to those feelings of happiness or being uplifted.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I I still think that even in 10 years' time, people are still going to wear a fragrance or want to wear a fragrance that reflects their feelings of whatever they whatever that's going to be at that particular time.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And usually the positive attributes are what we all want to strive for.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, nobody wants to put on a fragrance to make them feel upset or angry or miserable.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's just not it's just not even a a factor.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: People people want to really feel positive emotions, and I think that's what fragrance can do for you.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, whatever that emotion is, as I said, if it's feeling sexy or sensual or being uplifted or confident or positive, those to me are all positive attributes, and that's what we all strive for.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love that answer.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, because that was definitely a hard question.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate I appreciate your answer very much.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I just want to say to everyone listening out there, you know, like I I cannot express to you how much just genuine respect and admiration I have for Sue's work.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, like I said, Sue, you've been so kind to me and you've, you know, crafted fragrance that you sent me, you know, uh a few months ago.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that fragrance so much because the more Yeah, and and and you know, you know what's so cool.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to say this on air to you was that the more I use that fragrance, the more it um opens up for me, if that makes any sense.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like, you know, one day I'll wear it and it'll remind me of, you know, that exactly what I said about, you know, growing up at in an Indian home.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it has that feeling of that beautiful, incensey, spicy scent.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then another day it'll remind me of like that freshness.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just such a, I don't know, the magic that you create, but the way you do it is so beautiful and it's like an experience every time I spray it, and I literally covet this fragrance for everyone listening.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, you know, I use it once in a while and I use it on days where I need to feel comfort and I need to feel like my best self.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't recommend enough for you guys to really get to have this experience for yourself and go on to Sue's website and fill that questionnaire out and really reach out to her and her team and and see if you can get like a customized blend made for yourself that's going to really reflect who you are, you know, because at the end of the day, those are the things that you're gonna remember, those are the fragrances you're gonna throw in your bag to go wherever you're going, whether it's traveling, whether it's, you know what I mean, whatever it might be, because that's what I find myself doing.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm a huge, huge fan of your work, Sue.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I can't thank you enough.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: I can't thank you enough.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and for everyone listening, um, give you know, give your feedback, you know, chime in, let us know um if you have any questions for Sue because I'm gonna keep bothering her to come back on the show as much as I as much as she can.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: So please send us your questions and concerns or any anything that you want to learn about.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And definitely I will um present them to Sue and see if we can get her back for another episode.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's so sweet.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I really appreciate that.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I just want to say one thing about um the the enjoyment of fragrance and the tying into uh even our sense of smell and our sense of taste.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that I love to do, uh create these innovative, interesting, fun, educational, centertaining uh dinners.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I create these scent dinners because five and flavor are so interconnected.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um I just did recently for Valentine's Day a scent dinner at the perfume passage in Chicago.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we created a five-course dinner where every course had a flavor, fragrance, and wine component.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I call it the sip, stiff and savor.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: You sip the wine, you sniff the matching fragrance, and then you savor the food.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a whole culinary journey and an olfactory journey where the flavors and the fragrances are all related.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a thing that goes through the first course, might be a light citrus salad with a salad vesting and a Sauvignon blanc.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: The next course could be uh a lovely salmon with a Chardonnay because it's a woodsy note with lovely woodsy fresh vegetables, you know.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then as an exotic, spicy Moroccan lamb stew with all those wonderful, wonderful spicy notes that are in your spice cabinet with a cabinet.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: So all the flavors and the fragrances and the wines have a sensory theme.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the end, and then for dessert is something with a lovely chocolate and vanilla and fruity notes.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end, I created a fragrance for everybody based on all the notes and the ingredients that we tried.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it became just a beautiful memory of that particular dinner.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I encourage people to think about how fragrance and flavor are so connected so that when you're eating something, you just think about what is the flavor that I'm eating and what is the aroma that has a correlation, so that people start to sort of broaden their sensory experience to really experience and enjoy beautiful flavors and fragrances.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: That is so amazing.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I must join you for one of those dinners, by the way.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to look that up myself because I really, really find it to be interesting that you brought that up.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I especially because I remember when I was first getting into wine, and especially like I'm a huge red wine, you know, person.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when I first tasted wine that was aged in like a bourbon barrel, for example.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking to myself, this is so amazing because it's got that wood.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it was more of a like a like a sensory experience rather than a taste.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely understand what you're saying here about how you know you really do have to think about everything in in you know in a holistic way and really kind of merge these different senses into experiencing them.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: But that's so cool that you um that you do those dinners, Sue.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that we can sign up for or is are they like information only?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or I You know, uh what I what I do I have my new boutique now on uh Madison Avenue and 80th Street and so I love to create these sensory journeys and experiences.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Last week I had actually believe it or not, I had a a wonderful um Indian family.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the gentleman wanted to celebrate his wife's 47th birthday and he had uh 12 of his friends come and he said to me, Sue, I don't think the men are going to want to do the fragrance journey.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, I don't think I don't think you're right.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think you're right.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: So what I did, he said, Well, what else can I do?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, you know, I don't have a TV, I'm not gonna have these guys watching a TV in sport.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, just because the place is fairly intimate and cozy, they will be uh just exposed to the whole sensory journey.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so for them, I created the centinis, which is my version of the martinis, about the flavors and the fragrances.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I had the different flavored vodkas, the vanilla vodka, the raspberry vodka, and the citrus vodka, and I called it the centinis, and everybody had the best time.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we did have, in fact, a sensory journey.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: I did create a centini uh event with the fragrance event, and so everybody had had the most amazing experience.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: They tried the different flavored vodkas with the different flavored ingredients of the fragrances, so they were really understanding how the tents, how the scent and the taste were so correlated, and it was a fun event.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody had a great and very memorable, very memorable.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: That is so neat, and the fact that hey, if you can convince a stubborn Indian man to do something, that means you've got it down, you've got you know something special.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I hear you there.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really, really cool.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm actually very interested in um, you know, checking it out myself.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: So for everyone listening, you might just be seeing some of my own posts, you know, me showing up to Sue's uh beautiful location and and experiencing this for myself.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: But that that sounds so lovely.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for sharing that.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I um I really encourage everyone again, like you really must, you must check out all of the beautiful services and the wonderful experiences that Sue is offering.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is a once-in-a-lifetime thing that I think you should really, you know, treat yourself to, you know, fragrance is such a beautiful, beautiful world.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't experience it, I guess there's no right or wrong way, but if you don't experience things to their fullest, it's almost like, why are you even doing what you're doing?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so that's that's my mentality about things.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I am a huge believer in go to the professionals, go to the people who know what they're doing.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no one better than Sue when it comes to fragrance.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, um, I encourage everybody, but thank you so much, Sue.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: This has been such a delight to host you.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like I said, I can't wait to have you back for the next episode.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I can't wait to meet you and see you in person.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you so much for this great opportunity.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I love talking to you because you've got such a fabulous background and experience too.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I thank you for having me and for letting me express and extol the virtues of fragrance and flavor and all the arts and the sciences to create beautiful experiences.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, you're too kind.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's truly an honor.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, for everyone listening, I will be back next time.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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• 48:25
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