Latest / Not Right Now / Keep It Janky

Transcript

Keep It Janky · Not Right Now

• 0:00
  [upbeat music] Hey, I have three kids. They eat so much. We try to eat real food. We try to cook when we can.
• 0:10
  We try not to waste too much 'cause it drives me nuts, and it's expensive, and also for obvious climate reasons, which is why the Mill Food Recycler changed our lives a couple years ago.
• 0:23
  It is an odorless, effortless, and fully automated food recycler. Look, we've had this thing front and center in our kitchen for, again, a couple years now it feels like, and it is just such a game changer.
• 0:37
  Way less waste, less smell, way less garbage, which by the way, saves you money. No leaky bags.
• 0:44
  Look, you got peels, bones, stalks, whatever leftovers, dump 'em in the Mill, and Mill dries and grinds them while you sleep. Again, it doesn't smell, which I don't understand. It's sleek. It's actually sexy.
• 1:00
  Here's a question people ask: How often do you empty it? Good question. It's every three weeks. I don't know, maybe, and there's a bunch of us.
• 1:07
  Plus, there's a little app where you can control it if you want and set a schedule, and it shows you how much food your family keeps out of landfills. A delight.
• 1:15
  Look, you can get $75 off right now when you go to our special partner site. I'm gonna read you the link, but you should know it's also in the show notes, and you can just click it.
• 1:26
  It is mill.com/lp/important-not-important. That is mill.com/lp/important-not-important. I couldn't remember that, so we put it in the show notes.
• 1:44
  It's right there for you. Check it out. Huge thanks to Mill for sponsoring our work and doing the right thing, and thanks to all of you listeners for supporting our partners.
• 1:54
  [upbeat music] There's a reason they make movies about middle school, like- Mm... nobody escapes alive. [upbeat music] Welcome to Not Right Now, the podcast about parenting through all of this.
• 2:11
  We'll be talking about/crashing out over topics like- Reproductive rights and who left this granola bar wrapper in their pocket before laundry and/or stuffed into the couch or just on the floor, and I'm asking who left it even though I know exactly who left it...
• 2:27
  digital footprints and actual muddy footprints all over the floor and hand prints on the glass. It's not an advice show. It's a you're not alone, and you're also not crazy for screaming in the shower kinda show.
• 2:39
  I'm Claire Zulkey from Evil Witches. And I'm Quinn Emmett from Important Not Important. You can find details on anything we talk about in the show notes or at our website notrightnow.show..show.
• 2:52
  And if you like what you hear today, please share it with a parent who needs it or who might laugh and tell their kids to be quiet, and then drop us a nice little five-star review.
• 3:00
  And reminder, you can send questions or feedback to questions@notrightnow.show.
• 3:06
  [upbeat music] Hi, parents and other twisted people. It's Quinn.
• 3:20
  I'm recording this quick intro from our home office, where one of my children is downstairs shaking something like a maraca at a deafening level because why not?
• 3:31
  Anyways, this week our guest is the fabulous Sarah Wheeler. Sarah is a delight, as you will find out. She is many things. She's the creator and writer at the Mom Spreading blog, which is a title I love so much.
• 3:44
  Sarah is an educational psychologist, a teacher, a mother, an ADHDer, and a self-described 90s R&B enthusiast.
• 3:52
  And obviously, as you know from our music episode, if she wasn't a 90s R&B enthusiast, we wouldn't have her on.
• 4:00
  Anyways, Sarah's also written for The New York Times, Romper, the Greater Good Magazine, and one of my favorites, McSweeney's Internet Tendency.
• 4:08
  Sarah lives in Oakland, consumes a lot of basketball, and dances like everybody's watching.
• 4:13
  And finally, on the About page for Mom Spreading, which we'll put in the show notes, Sarah shared a picture of her at a karaoke bar singing Usher's Nice & Slow 36 hours before going into labor.
• 4:25
  She has explained to her children that she would like that image to be painted onto her tombstone. Thank you.
• 4:31
  Quick housekeeping reminder, members get our exclusive bonus segments, including monthly Q&A episodes, which we really love doing, and of course, our Yes Right Now bonus pops, where Claire and I share one vital thing that got us through the week.
• 4:44
  It could literally be anything. If you wanna get those, you can do one of two things.
• 4:49
  You can, one, become an Important member with a 30-day free trial at importantnotimportant.com/upgrade, and you can get everything else we make ad-free.
• 4:58
  Or, two, become a paid subscriber to Claire's blog, Evil Witches, and you'll also get all of Claire's most intimate posts where she, I mean, honestly takes shots at herself and her kids in equal measure.
• 5:10
  As always, you can find these links and everything else right in your show notes. Please enjoy our convo with Sarah Wheeler. [upbeat music] Paul, my son, won a device that looks like- Mm...
• 5:24
  a professional microphone at Dave & Buster's. But it's- It may surprise you to know that it's- Made of condom. Yeah, exactly.
• 5:30
  It's m- and so he was pretty bummed that he couldn't record his, whatever it is that he wanted to record, probably, you know, his rendition of Not Like Us.
• 5:37
  And so on the one hand, I thought it was dear that he wanted to try it, on the other hand, I was like, "Let me talk to you about audio equipment and how- Yeah... you get what you pay for, my dear boy."
• 5:45
  Your kids win so much shit, Claire, and bring it home. It's amazing. I- Is it 'cause they're good, or is it 'cause you spend a ton of money at Dave & Buster's?
• 5:53
  Uh, well, the Dave & Buster's thing- Or a little bit column A, column B? Well, the Dave & Buster's thing, it's only... It's almost... It's cuteIf you are...
• 6:01
  Okay, so let me give you the context of the Dave & Buster's thing. It happe- it's a school buy-in party, which means you pay money to go. And, like, a l- and it's moms and...
• 6:10
  No, boy- it's supposed to be a boy-mom party basically to make up for- Whoa... the daddy-daughter dance. And [laughs] it's a Cat- I've already got so many questions. I know. This is Catholic school.
• 6:19
  Yeah, Catholic school. And, okay, I'm just trying to, like, orient myself. This is, like, not the culture of my kids. No. I'm fascinated. Go on. So yeah. So I, I didn't know what to expect last year when I first went in.
• 6:29
  I walk in, first of all, they have a private room, which is so nice, but it is overwhelming, all of the flashing lights and noises. I can make a neurodiversity joke about Dave & Buster's because I have ADHD. Perfect.
• 6:40
  Which I have, I have written thousands of words about how I basically feel like my brain is Dave & Buster's during Christmastime. Yeah.
• 6:47
  So we go in, and then they actually have all of this food set up and nonstop drinks, including pop, you know, and lemonade.
• 6:54
  So, and there's a raffle for no reason that goes out at the end where some mom built- That's feeling too much. It feels- We're already winning stuff.
• 7:00
  It is, but also at the same time, you chill with your friends in this room, and they give all the kids a gift card to go play games, and they come back, and then they're like, "What do I do now?"
• 7:09
  And you're like, "I don't know. That's not my problem. Talk to your friends," you know?
• 7:12
  And, and then they give away these raffles where they get, like, a big thing of, like, cheese balls or a big thing of Takis or a big thing of Jarritos. Oh, and, and I love a raffle. Yeah. I like adult prizes in a raffle.
• 7:24
  I mean, I think, again, speaking about ADHD, like, it is such a dopamine high for me to be, like, sitting there with my numbers. And if I win once every, like, decade- Yeah...
• 7:34
  I'm set, and I'm devoted, and I will enter every- Yeah... raffle. It's, like, enough to, of a high to ride on. Yeah. But I don't want a giant thing of Cheez Puff. No, no.
• 7:42
  I have still the giant thing of jelly beans my one son won. And then we still have this thing of Takis. We're still working that down.
• 7:49
  But I have to say, as an event, it combines the sweet spots of doing something with your kid but not actually having to be with him for most of the time. And, you know, and I'm not having to play the games.
• 8:00
  No one is compelling me to do anything, so I just talk to these other moms. And then I'm like, "Well, that was fun. They had a good time." And we won a free...
• 8:06
  Not free, we spent quite a bit of money to win a free bad microphone. I do judge the daddy-daughter... S- Sorry, they call it the sweetheart dance, but not judge. It's judging formal- Is that better or worse?
• 8:17
  Who can know? Yeah, I, I don't know. I think worse. Yeah. But I think the moms ha- get out better 'cause the dads have to stand around and do a dance.
• 8:25
  Not do a dance, but pretend to dance or be at a school dance, whereas the moms don't have to pretend. Like, we can just be in this room eating chicken fingers. Just eat. You know?
• 8:33
  But that doesn't mean you have to go to Dave & Buster's. I'm still trying to figure out, like, who wins here. Like, why... Could you have gone outside somewhere? He- heteronormative culture wins. Well, sure, yeah.
• 8:43
  No, of course, they always do. Oh, it's like a movie theater vibe where you're like, "We're gonna enter this building and pay money, and for several hours you'll be entertained.
• 8:51
  Who's to say whether it's quality entertainment? But we all did it together. We passed that time, you know, and, and there that was." And allegedly the school got supported somehow in the midst of all this.
• 9:02
  I don't let my kids do anything, so I wouldn't even know. Like, we wouldn't... They wouldn't have the opportunity to get the microphone 'cause I just say no to everything.
• 9:09
  My kids would be- It'd just be the one family that's not going to the Dave & Buster's. Mm-hmm. Always. Just, yeah. We're having a movie night at school. I'm like, "That's not our family."
• 9:15
  You're practicing your penmanship. They don't, like, pressure you, but they do brainwash you into thinking things are gonna be fun. And you're like, "All right." Mm-hmm. "I guess so."
• 9:24
  And then you're like, "I'm gonna hate this. This is gonna be so stupid." And then you go and you're like, "That was fun. I have to admit it." So it's always a journey from my path of not wanting to do shit to- Yeah...
• 9:34
  grudgingly admitting that, you know, when it comes to doing shit, that was pretty okay.
• 9:39
  I have a parenting philosophy, and I try to, as much as possible, choose environments for my children that also support this philosophy, which is keep it janky. Oh.
• 9:50
  Which is what's the jankiest that this could be that we would enjoy it?
• 9:54
  There's a lot of reasons I subscribe to that, but, you know, that's what always makes me happy, is I'm like, okay, what's the version of the Dave & Buster's thing, but, you know, we're just like, we set up a table with glass bottles and we're just throwing rocks at them, you know?
• 10:10
  And then, I don't know, somebody brought, like, a giant Costco bag of popcorn, and we just throw them at the children, and everybody has a great time. Oh, yay. The glass bottles or the popcorn?
• 10:19
  [laughs] You know, it depends on how it's going. How it's going. Yeah, sure. Yeah. No, you gotta- Yeah... stay flexible. Yeah. That makes sense. The kids don't need the Dave & Buster's or anything, that's for sure.
• 10:27
  But yeah, KIJ when at all possible. I'm not yuck or yum. I'm sorry, but- No, it's okay... just, I do an arcade. I'm a claw game person.
• 10:36
  And I know that this is an addict's kind of lie, but I think I'm really good at them. So, and I have a- Mm... reputation with my kids, who generally think I'm basically garbage.
• 10:48
  I mean, they're obsessed with me 'cause I'm their mom, but also they think I suck at everything. They think I'm amazing at the claw game, so I just basically just keep pumping money into it.
• 10:57
  Do they not understand statistics and probabilities yet? Yeah, I mean, they're good with numbers.
• 11:02
  But my kids basically turn into, like, old-timey, like, Brooklyn guys whenever we're at the claw game because there are certain ones that we know around town. They're, they'll be like, "Don't play that one. It's rigged."
• 11:16
  Um- That's amazing... so- You need to do or send it to your local paper and have them, like, print this out. Get paid for this knowledge. This is- Yes. I'm sure- Yeah... they've just got tons of funds waiting around.
• 11:25
  No one's gonna pay you for it. I would support this kind of journalism. That's like my kids with badminton. That's the one thing they- Are you good at badminton? I am really good at badminton. Oh.
• 11:33
  I played on the team in high school, actually, for two years. Wow. And it was pretty- Wow. Yeah. I wasn't one of the better players, like the really good players. The really good players also played tennis.
• 11:43
  I'm good for the kids, and I can either play nice and easy with you in the backyard and just dink it back and forth, or if you wanna play hard, like, I will run you around, you know, and I will slam it on your face, like, if you need me to, so, uh- You're like a sports...
• 11:55
  You, I... Your kids play sports too- Yeah... right? Like, you have that vibe. I admire that. I'm like, a ball comes at me and, you know, I'm, like, crouching into-Defense position.
• 12:06
  I definitely don't play many sports with them. If anything, they have phased... I'm not relevant anymore to any sports that they might need.
• 12:13
  Like, we actually hire a college student now to sometimes play, practice- Oh, yeah... pitch, ball. I rem- you told me about that. Yeah. The college student. The, like, little mentor guy, right? Yeah. We have a- Yeah...
• 12:22
  certain. But I'm not anything anymore. I'm the one who the kids are like, "Where's my mitt?" And then I'll say, "I don't know." And then they'll realize it was in their bag the way they, they, where they- Always...
• 12:31
  left it. Yeah. It is always in the bag. Looking for a pair of goggles right now, and it's, you know what, Claire? I don't think I've checked in the bag. No.
• 12:39
  The next time you go to a pool, see if there's a bunch of left behind goggles and just take six of them, and just have them all the time so that there'll always be some goggles. Yeah. Yeah. Goggles are like umbrellas.
• 12:49
  They're like a fluid entity. Yeah. Nobody really owns one. No, exactly. Yeah, they don't completely belong to you. Quinn, what's a talent you have that your kids actually respect? N- nothing. I don't know. Nothing?
• 12:59
  I mean- Something that you can dominate them at? Those are two different questions. What's a talent I have? The answer is they're all going away quickly. And second, that they respect, I can't even begin. Oh, man.
• 13:07
  How old are your kids? 10, 11, and 12. Okay. How would they answer that? I don't know. Like, I put in the right destination on the calendar to get them to the fucking place. But you didn't let them go to the place.
• 13:18
  I know. I- Or are you talking about some kind of work camp? Oh, no. [laughs] Right. Exactly. It's just digging holes. Yeah, no, I mean it's to tire them out. Anything to tire them out.
• 13:26
  Anything that I don't have to be directly involved, like I'm not responsible for but- Yes... still I'm there and- You want to watch them tire themselves. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 13:35
  I genuinely, Claire, I don't know how they would answer. I will ask them and I will get back to you. We will do a special bonus episode on what my children respect about me. Well- It'll be very short...
• 13:44
  Steve likes to beat our ADHD kid at sports, Tiffany, 'cause he's such a bad loser that the kid, not the dad, so Steve will get pleasure basically out of making James upset by beating him, which is probably not how parents are supposed to behave.
• 13:57
  A little sadistic. But yeah. [upbeat music] Hey, I have three kids. They eat so much. We try to eat real food. We try to cook when we can.
• 14:10
  We try not to waste too much, 'cause it drives me nuts, and it's expensive, and also for obvious climate reasons, which is why the Mill Food Recycler changed our lives a couple years ago.
• 14:22
  It is an odorless, effortless, and fully automated food recycler. Look, we've had this thing front and center in our kitchen for, again, a couple years now it feels like, and it is just such a game changer.
• 14:37
  Way less waste, less smell, way less garbage, which by the way, saves you money. No leaky bags.
• 14:44
  Look, you got peels, bones, stalks, whatever leftovers, dump them in the Mill, and Mill dries and grinds them while you sleep. Again, it doesn't smell, which I don't understand. It's sleek. It's actually sexy.
• 15:00
  Here's a question people ask. How often do you empty it? Good question. It's every three weeks. I don't know, maybe, and there's a bunch of us.
• 15:07
  Plus, there's a little app where you can control it if you want and set a schedule, and it shows you how much food your family keeps out of landfills. A delight.
• 15:15
  Look, you can get $75 off right now when you go to our special partner site. I'm gonna read you the link, but you should know it's also in the show notes, and you can just click it.
• 15:26
  It is mill.com/lp/important-not-important. That is mill.com/lp/important-not-important. I couldn't remember that, so we put it in the show notes.
• 15:44
  It's right there for you. Check it out. Huge thanks to Mill for sponsoring our work and doing the right thing, and thanks to all of you listeners for supporting our partners. [upbeat music] But we...
• 15:56
  You know, the exposure therapy. Yeah. Well, especially 'cause he treats us like shit so often that every once in a while to, you know, to beat him in a way that is legal, it can be satisfying, so.
• 16:05
  Sometimes you do wanna stick it to them. Oh, yeah. You do. Yeah. I remember when we were in Los Angeles and the kids were whatever it was, I think it was during COVID, so they were, like, five, six, seven.
• 16:15
  We had this little backyard we were lucky to have, little soccer net. They hadn't played with any other fucking kids in three months, and my wife asked me a question.
• 16:23
  I turned around and this dipshit, six years old, just was like, "Ha-ha, I scored six goals when you weren't paying attention." I was like, "Well, now I'm gonna make your life terrible. I'm just gonna score- Yeah...
• 16:33
  100 and I'm gonna make you feel terrible." Lovely. And he did. Mm-hmm. And I was like, "Don't talk shit- Mm-hmm... unless you can back it up." Like- That's right... my grandma never let me win anything. Sure. Oh.
• 16:42
  Did that fuck you up? Not with her. Like, we're, we, we're thick as thieves. But overall, I mean, there's a sign in my base- Oh, my wife hates this so much.
• 16:50
  I'm a Liverpool soccer fan, and one of their coaches from 100 years ago had a quote that was like, "If you're first, you're first. If you're second, you're nothing." And I may have hung it- Jesus...
• 16:58
  in, like, our little workout room, and she was like- Wow... "Ugh." She was like, "This explains so much." Wow. Yeah. Yeah, you're recovering from that. Or not. Or just- That's like the- No, no, no...
• 17:08
  t-shirts that say, "I just want everyone to have a good time." Which is her. If she describes herself, we play any board game, she is, what does she say? Switzerland. Mm-hmm.
• 17:15
  She's like, "How do I cheat and help everyone have a good time?" Oh, I'm like- And I'm like, "How do I make these people never wanna play again?" I'm like, "How do I make this go as fast as possible?" Mm-hmm.
• 17:23
  I can get back to something that doesn't drive me crazy. Yeah.
• 17:26
  Um- You know what is one thing that is slightly annoying, and I know it's really done in good faith, but for James' baseball team, these kids range from, like, second grade to fifth grade, which is just way- Wow...
• 17:34
  too wide a spread. Yeah, that's epic. Some parent asked for a list of all the kids' numbers and names so that we can cheer them by name when they're playing. Mm. Epic. Time for this to cross-reference who is what.
• 17:45
  Like, I can just say, "Good eye," without being like, "Good eye, Jacob." You should know you're the one who's up there who did that. Also- Yeah... make yourself known. You're... If you need to be- Yeah...
• 17:53
  cheered for by name, make a name for yourself. Yeah. You know? Exactly. Yeah. But it's also, like, on the list of- Earn it... it's a real not right now thing. I had this conversation with our oldest recently.
• 18:01
  He was like, "You know Steve." And I was like, "I gotta be honest, man. Like, I love you. You do have good friends from what I can tell on the surface level. I don't know who the fuck Steve is." And he's like, "Why not?"
• 18:09
  I was like, "Why do I need to know who Steve is?" Do you know my friends, my old- Like, yeah, right. Exactly... foreign friends? Right. But what... If he's at my house, I still don't need to know his name.
• 18:18
  Like, unless it's a hospital situation, in which case I don't fucking know. Like to know his allergies, but I don't... Nothing else.No, I can't be responsible for all that shit. That's amazing. I love... I...
• 18:28
  So I work with children. I just am always more comfortable with children than adults, so I'm like obsessed with the kids.
• 18:34
  You know, I know every kid in every classroom my kids have ever been in, and I'm always shocked that like other parents... You know, other parents will be like, "Hi, you know, I'm," whatever, you know, "Marina's dad."
• 18:46
  And I'm like, "Yeah, I know. I'm best friends with your daughter. Like, I'm so sorry that she got stung by a bee last week. You know, I think she needs a new pair of sneakers," whatever, you know? Mm-hmm.
• 18:56
  And they're like, "Who the fuck are you?" [laughs] Right. And then they have no idea who my kid is. But I stop being offended by it. It's just like a professional tendency. I would love to be like that.
• 19:05
  I still don't know half the kids in my older son's class, and by which I mean the girls, 'cause I ended up, again, at this school, which- It's hard when they're older. Well- This is middle school, right?
• 19:13
  It is middle school, but also my kids' school, I just did not... I'm a bad feminist, 'cause I probably should have just fucked up the system on my own, but I just don't have... I need to lead a systemic change.
• 19:22
  But I'm on a boy mom text chain. By the way, when I say boy mom, I do mean that I wanna marry my son and no woman- Uh-huh... could ever be good enough for him. Yeah. If people said what I mean. Mm-hmm. Check that box.
• 19:32
  And he can do whatever he wants. He's a king. But it's freeing to be like, "Who is that?" Or like, "Show me this girl. What girl does what?"
• 19:38
  And I'll be like, I'll show a picture, like in the class picture, I'm like, "She looks fun." And my son will be like, "Well, she swears a lot." I'm like, "Oh, I like her."
• 19:45
  I feel like I'm equal opportunity to like I don't know any adults' names. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I've come to terms with that. 40s is just self-awareness. I'm like, I don't know your fucking name. I won't forget a face.
• 19:54
  Yeah. But a name, like, no thank you. And so I don't know kids either. But I did notice I did something that, I mean, just saying this out loud will probably get me, you know, sent off to alligator prison.
• 20:04
  But it's like, they come home with their yearbooks, and I just take pictures of their friends and their names, and I'm like, that's my version of a- That's smart... like a Facebook, 'cause I'm like, there they are.
• 20:12
  That's a really good workaround. Right. But then my phone- It's fun... is just filled with... It's great. That's fine. I wanna see the Emmett list. Release the Emmett list. Yeah, I wanna see these kids.
• 20:22
  I send the, all the cl- you know, like when they do the whole class. Mm-hmm. Now, I don't know about you guys, but, you know, when I was a kid, you'd all be in a picture together. Yeah.
• 20:29
  You'd go stand and the teacher- Shank... would say it or whatever. Yeah. Like you'd have physical touch.
• 20:34
  Now, I don't know if this is 'cause of COVID or just like efficiency, but all the class pictures are like everybody's separate school picture in an array of- Oh, you still do the class picture?
• 20:45
  Yeah, Oakland Public Schools are done with that. Mm. But the nice part is like, you get to see every kid's school picture. Mm. And they're such goobers. Yeah.
• 20:53
  And so I have a tradition with some of my friends where every year we just share the whole class picture, and then you like pick your favorite kids. Please do. I love that kind of stuff.
• 21:01
  You're like, "Tell me more about Calvin." Yeah. What's going on with Calvin? Yeah, exactly. Um.. You can be so defined by one class picture for like your entire life. Like- Oh my God...
• 21:10
  Nick Kroll, the comedian, went to- Yeah... my, my year at Georgetown. Oh. I didn't know him really, but we had like a Facebook, a physical Facebook.
• 21:17
  And to this day, like he will always be set in my memory about that picture and what he listed as his interests, and that will come first before anything else he does. What were they?
• 21:25
  Well, it was funny 'cause he was trying to be funny. I think it was- Yeah... uh, fungus finding and maybe like rugby. And I remember my mom was like, "What a weird guy. Why would he say that?"
• 21:34
  And I was like, "I think to be funny." And she's like, "Why would you do that?" My mom could not wrap her brain around being ironic, you know? Wow. Joke's on your mom. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Successful comedian.
• 21:45
  Anyway, those things are set in time. Now, Quinn, can we dive into a couple of ADHD questions for Sarah? I don't... That wasn't a good... I have no transition or anything. That was a hell of a segue.
• 21:53
  In the spirit of ADHD and neurodiversity- Yeah... affirmation, we don't need segues. Yeah. Well, fuck no. No. Segues are like the man's conversation tool. Thank you. Right? Yeah. Let's just go. Yeah. All right.
• 22:05
  I'm totally fine with that. I'm in. I'm in too. And also there will be tangents. How many kids do we have between the three of us? Do we have... 'Cause Sarah, you have two kids? Yeah. All right. I have two.
• 22:13
  Seven and nine. Okay. So it's amazing if we could have a conversation between the three of us, and we have seven kids, right? In between all of us, it might- Are you ready for a tangent? This is a real- Mm-hmm...
• 22:21
  we're going from A to B to F. That's all I want. Ever. Okay. How many kids? Claire, two. Sarah, how many? Two. Two. I've got three. Yeah. I've still got one in the freezer. Ooh. Would you- Oh, yeah...
• 22:34
  would you ever consider it? If someone was like- Oh... "Oh, it turns out you've still got one in the freezer, an embryo in the freezer." But your kids are 10, 11, and 12? Uh-huh. I don't know.
• 22:44
  I had a really hard time letting go of the third kid. I mean, not like physically, I didn't put them out to sea. They don't exist. But I come from a big family. There's five kids in my family.
• 22:52
  I love my brothers and sisters. Mm-hmm. And it was really hard for me to be like, no, I, I can't do this. Yeah. I think ultimately it wouldn't be nice to anyone else. I mean, particularly- Mm-hmm...
• 23:03
  myself, but I would be a crazy person.
• 23:07
  I think I've learned in the last 10 years that I've been a parent that, I mean, this is kind of true for everyone, but like in a special way, I'm a complete psycho when I don't get enough sleep. Yeah.
• 23:17
  And I just think unless I could afford like a night doula for a year- Mm... I think putting a baby into my family right now would be really mean. But it's hard, it's hard to let go. I finally okayed the vasectomy last.
• 23:28
  Mm. That was like, it's over. But my little brother's having his first baby, and I'm just like, hmm, could I? Mm-hmm. And I don't have any on ice, but maybe- Mm... there's some still, eggs still kicking around in here.
• 23:40
  I forget every year until I get the bill that it's in, that it's- Right, right... you know, in the Jurassic Park freezer. You gotta pay for storage. Do you know what it is? Dana seems to believe it's a girl.
• 23:47
  I don't remember that part, but I've blocked it all out. Sarah, our story was like we had 1,000 miscarriages and IVFs, and then the first one w- was like they put the embryo in there like, "It's grade D, best of luck.
• 23:57
  It's not gonna fucking work." Yeah. Like our last hope. And then it's... He's 12 now. With a- And then you had two more. [laughs] And then the second one, they were like, "Well, you're geriatric." As... Of course.
• 24:07
  "If you wanna have a second one, you should try now." We're like, "But he's still a baby. W- how would we have another baby?" They're like, "Well, it's up to you." Mm. And that worked after two.
• 24:15
  And then of course the third one was an accident, but it- Yeah. Yeah... it always comes down to same thing. You see a baby and you're like, "I've got three great ones. Like, what would that fourth one be like?"
• 24:24
  Like you're- Just rolling the dice, you know? Right. It's always exciting. But what you're doing when you ask that question, though, is what would they be like, is you're considering it in isolation.
• 24:32
  You're not considering like you did, which is it will fuck-Everything up. Totally. It will fuck the whole system up. Which by the way, we're all here 'cause it's already fucked up. [laughs] Well, yeah.
• 24:42
  And also, I mean, a- as an ADHDer- Mm... I kinda like fucking the system up. I really have to talk myself out- Mm... of the temptation- Mm-hmm... of that. You know? Mm. Okay.
• 24:50
  There's like always the glistening whatever shiny image- Mm-hmm... of what, of like the lie of what having a fucking- Mm...
• 24:58
  third kid when my kids are like 100 years old and, you know, and I basically have a broken body would be like, but kind of you're just like, "Why the fuck me?" [laughs] But I could do it. Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:09
  If I- It's like why I never pay for parking meters. I'm like, "I could get away with it." Right. Yeah. Yeah. I can do it. I can pull it off. No, I really appreciate your perspective.
• 25:18
  Well, if you want one, w- I can probably have it sent somehow. Have that sent on over. Yeah. Sure.
• 25:22
  I did always wish I could be a surrogate, and I think those years, I am 41, I do not think anybody's knocking on my womb, but I was always like, "Maybe I could be a surrogate." Mm. 'Cause I like being pregnant. Mm-hmm.
• 25:35
  I like giving birth and, you know, people probably just want me to, you know, house their babies. Mm-hmm. But no one asked, and I'm old, so. Well, you would be a great surrogate based on what you're saying.
• 25:44
  Thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I would... We didn't have issues conceiving luckily, so I don't have like this question in mind, but my cousin has four kids, and it did break her, but I respect her.
• 25:55
  But one thing that she told me about is that when you have that fourth kid, you are among all these parents who are so much younger than you, and your fourth kid is like the one you give the least a shit about.
• 26:05
  [laughs] This is like all of these new parents' first kids. So they're not- You're then going to the mother-daughter events- Yeah. Yeah... or whatever.
• 26:11
  [laughs] She said like she would have so much planned for her first four in terms of activities and play dates, and the last kids, like forget it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like they get none. Yes. I was a fourth kid, so.
• 26:19
  Oh, really? Yeah. I can attest. [laughs] Yeah. Wow. No. And it does feel like if you don't have ADHD, like four kids is bringing it on because what the fuck else are you gonna... Like yeah, it's chaos. Yeah. Right.
• 26:30
  I also, you know, pa- I mean parenting is hard. I- it's beautiful. You know, I'm happy. I'm doing it. I did it. It, I mean, it's still going on very much so. Very active. But the ADHD of it all is, you know, is real.
• 26:44
  Like feeding my children is sometimes so overwhelming to me that I just wanna sit down and cry.
• 26:52
  The idea of that I have to track and plan for multiple meals a day that involve people's tastes and have a, you know, a schedule around them- Mm-hmm... is so overwhelming to me.
• 27:05
  Being places on time, I- I don't know how I would like add in another variable into that. Would you- Nap times again? Yeah, seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. Car seats.
• 27:15
  I- I refu- I really shouldn't have gotten by on how little I knew about car seats in terms of installing them and taking them out and things like that, and it's not, it wasn't gonna get better. You're still here. Yeah.
• 27:24
  And so yeah, it's not ideal to give that another shot. My husband made the wise choice of becoming the car seat person in our family. Mm-hmm. I have never touched a car seat- Yeah... in or out. My wife is the- Yeah...
• 27:35
  she is ADHD and works hard and is all great- Oh, okay... but can't do meals. Mm-hmm. But we just call her like she's the fun one. Oh. Yeah. I'm just like I do all the other shit 'cause one, it checks a box for me.
• 27:44
  Oh, I love that. But two, but also because we know that if she does it, it'll be fun until no one gets to soccer practice- Mm... or school or whatever the case. Do you do all the meals?
• 27:53
  I try to do as much of the calendar me- like all the logistic stuff I can, and sometimes that's like- Mm... I'm the rigid one about stuff. Yeah. And we try to meet in the middle about it, which I do a poor job of course.
• 28:03
  You know the Bluey episode where like they're going to the pool, and the dad's taking them to the pool, and the mom's like, "Did you pack the bag? And don't you need sunscreen?" He's like, "I got it. Whatever." Mm.
• 28:13
  And then he shows up to the pool, and he like doesn't have the goggles or the sunscreen- Mm... or the swim shirt. We're the opposite. And the kids are all sad, and then the mom shows up and saves them. Yeah.
• 28:22
  I'm like I'm the dad. Yeah. I'm the dad. Yeah, yeah. No. I just, again, like we would fight over those kind of things for so long 'cause you think I'm a competent adult. I work full-time, this and that, but
• 28:32
  again, coming back to ADHD or c- control issues on the other side- Mm-hmm... whatever they are, like finding the, if you're lucky enough, to find the compromise and find the self-awareness- Yes...
• 28:42
  for each of you and what strengths and weaknesses are, which again is like never solved completely, that has been very helpful for us. Absolutely.
• 28:50
  I found a finally a lunch technique that really works for us because the boys, they do get fed lunch twice a week at their current summer camp, and then that's three days a week where we have the onus of packing our kids' lunches.
• 29:02
  And we have been lazy and relying on Lunchables, which I hate 'cause they offer nothing nutritionally, and they're so expensive and they're so wasteful. But- Yeah. Whatever. Well, yeah.
• 29:12
  So I was telling my husband while he was getting Lunchables out that I wish we were giving the kids better lunches, and he pointed out gently that he is the one doing all of the morning prep over the summer and taking the boys to camp, and the Lunchables is the best he can do, so like implied shut the fuck up.
• 29:28
  Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? Yeah. This system is working. The system is fine. Yeah. I, I am satisfied with the results, and I'm gonna back off, and we're gonna just stay the course.
• 29:36
  I come from a long line of therapists. Mm. And my dad worked with children as a therapist for a long time, and he, one of his big things was always like, "Does it work?" You know? "Is it working?" Mm. Are they alive?
• 29:48
  You know? Because there's a lot of, "Am I supposed to do that?" And I think when you find something like that as a parent, you should celebrate it- Yeah...
• 29:54
  and stick with it and feel like okay, it's cool that, that, that we do this, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Great. We found Lunchables, you know? And I celebrate not being the competent one.
• 30:04
  Like I am happy to, you know, be like I guess I didn't own this, and I'm not going to take over just because I wanna see it done differently. You can't backseat your partner's domain. If it's their domain, fuck off.
• 30:15
  Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. I have a summertime ADHD question. Just to- Sure... re- remind me do e- either of your kids have ADHD or only you are blessed? You know, the jury's still out. Life is long.
• 30:27
  Neither of them are presenting with problems related to ADHD I guess I will say. No, I'm really the ADHDer in my family. One of my kids said like he's half ADHD. Mm. Because, you know, his dad, he's half Jewish.
• 30:40
  My husband is not ADHD. Oh, okay. At all. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. So my kids are not, but you know, I'm an educational psychologist.I work a lot with kids with ADHD. I do a lot of parent coaching, teacher coaching.
• 30:52
  ADHD has like, always been, I don't know, it's like my favorite demographic. Mm-hmm. And then I got a diagnosis at 37, and I was like, "What?"
• 31:01
  Like, I burst into the room, "Extra, extra," and my husband was like, "Yeah, obviously. What? Are you serious?" We're not doing too bad, knock on wood, with the summer ADHD. We're doing okay.
• 31:13
  But the main thing that I still struggle with is my ADHD kid, transitions are rough for him, par- sic- particularly getting off screens.
• 31:21
  But anytime he's doing something he gets locked in on that you have to like, s- go to camp or have dinner or whatever, he can be a real asshole right after that.
• 31:30
  And, you know, I, we do our best to be like, "You know, what do you need to make this easier for you when you get off, or if you need a couple minutes or whatever?"
• 31:38
  But sometimes I just don't have it in me to be understanding, basically, and I'm like, "You know what?
• 31:44
  I'm sick of being treated like fucking shit 'cause like, you were just having a good time facilitated by me, and now comes a caretaking time that's also facilitated by me."
• 31:52
  And anyway, I just wonder what you tell parents who are like, "I know I have to give this kid some grace, but like, where is the fine line between grace and just taking a bunch of shit from a kid who is-" Mm-hmm...
• 32:01
  normal 'cause he has to do-" Exactly. "... something he doesn't want to?" Well, it's hard. First of all, it's hard. You're just not gonna...
• 32:06
  We're all humans in, like, a home together, and, you know, if you're lucky, we're all comfortable with each other, so you're gonna, there's gonna be some nasty moments, and that's just to be expected. It's okay.
• 32:18
  I think that, you know, my experience working with parents, and, you know, kind of checking myself as a parent, is you can't overestimate how much energy it takes kids to do, like, their daily life tasks.
• 32:36
  I mean, you're talking about the summer. Definitely during the school year, you know, I have a lot of conversations with parents that are like, "Why is my kid such a little bitch after school?"
• 32:44
  Or, you know, or, "I wanna take him somewhere after school, but he always just wants to go home and play Legos or be on a screen."
• 32:49
  It's like, yeah, while you were at work, probably just sitting at a desk and being on Zoom and feeling bored, your kid was, like, having to learn, following someone else's agenda, you know, navigating social dynamics.
• 33:02
  If they're an ADHDer, they also have this layer probably of, you know, regulating themselves, maybe getting a lot more negative feedback than other kids. They're fucking exhausted, and they're burnt out.
• 33:13
  And so I think that it's important just to kind of have that empathy and remember that, like, we come in hot, like, "All right, let's go," and it's hard.
• 33:23
  You know, the other thing is that, like, there's a therapist I really like, a child therapist in the Bay Area named Jonathan Barkin, and I was at a conversation that he led about preschoolers and screens.
• 33:34
  And he had all the parents get out our phones and do whatever it is that we do that kind of, you know, zones us out and regulates us on phones, like scroll Instagram or play Candy Crush or whatever.
• 33:46
  And then after five minutes, he was like, "Okay, put your phone away." And, you know, and it was, like, it was this shock. So I do think it's a lot. It seems normal to us. We've been preparing for something.
• 34:00
  We've got the bag to go, right? Mm-hmm. To say to a kid, "Now's the time," it can feel like a shock to the system. And ADHDers can be just, like, a lot more sensitive to that. I try to...
• 34:13
  One thing that I think is, like, top three pervasive parenting tip for me is, like, how much can I shut up in any interaction?
• 34:24
  How can I interact with my kid and get them to move along with basically as little talking as possible?
• 34:31
  Sometimes you notice that's the overwhelming piece, that, like, you're coming and saying, "Okay, it's time, da da da da da da da da da," and the difference between that and saying, you know, pointing to the off button, hits really different, especially with a kid who gets, like, overwhelmed easily.
• 34:45
  Okay. Mm-hmm. That's a good tip. I might try that. I've never tried that. Mm-hmm. Any of that feels like it applies to the thing that you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. I, I think I just...
• 34:54
  You know those certain days when you just feel like your fuse is extra short, or you just, or you've just been told no, or been spoken to nastily- Yeah...
• 35:03
  so many times that you're like, "Even though on a good day I do understand how you function and that you can only do so much," you also, on the other side of it, you're like, "I'm so fucking sick of just, like, being talked to this way."
• 35:13
  And I, you know, it sounds very unkind and un- ungentle, but that's just, like, how it... 'Cause sometimes I'm like, do other parents just take shit constantly and that's just the secret, you know?
• 35:21
  I struggle with that as a parent. My kids are g- like, I feel like, getting more rude. And I do a lot of looking at other people's kids and being like, "Those kids aren't rude."
• 35:30
  You know, like, my nieces aren't rude like that. You know, to their parents, they are. They totally can be. Sure. Kids go through different phases, too.
• 35:39
  I d- I, I think if I have any grounding in it, it comes from knowing that it's totally okay for me to be like, "I don't like the way that you're talking to me," or, "I'm gonna give you some space." Yeah. You know?
• 35:49
  Just being like, "I don't wanna be around this right now." It can be hard sometimes when also you have to go to swim class or whatever. Mm-hmm. But even a minute sometimes is cool. Yeah.
• 35:57
  And again, sometimes just, like, the shutting up. There's a thing from one of my favorite, like, social emotional curriculums, the Kimochis. Mm-hmm. That's like, you can be mad, but you can't be mean.
• 36:09
  That's Quinn's thing. He's like, he, right? Don't you say- What do you do? Oh, yeah. No, you get to be tired or hungry or whatever. Yeah. You don't get to be a fucking asshole. Yeah, exactly.
• 36:18
  Um, a- and by the way, like, I didn't learn that till I was 40. Yeah. And it's, it's totally a process, but we're gonna start now. It's not like when you say that, all of a sudden they're like, "Oh, you're right."
• 36:27
  Yeah, no. Um, but I think there's lots of things as parents that, like, even if we don't see some immediate behavioral change, there is value in being like-This is, you know, a principle to me. Yeah. And it's important.
• 36:42
  Yeah. And I'm gonna keep returning to it if nothing else to just have my own anchor. Yeah.
• 36:47
  No, you would be proud of me, Sarah, 'cause my kid was being a dick to me, and I screamed at him after I closed the s- car door, and he must have heard me screaming from inside 'cause he looked behind him, but he didn't hear me scream to him.
• 36:58
  But then after a few minutes after the degree and with some quieting, he just said sorry very quietly. Mm. And I was like, yeah. And I was like, "I'll take that. I'll- Yeah. The sorry- Totally...
• 37:06
  is better than nothing," and I did not extract it from him, and he rec- Yep... confess. So Yeah, and you don't need a lecture then. It's that was the learning is they kind of just figured it out. Yeah. Um. Yeah.
• 37:16
  But it is crazy to be a fucking kid. I mean, again, I don't think... I, I'm not, like, promoting, you know, let your children abuse you. [laughs] But, like, y- it is wild to remember what childhood is like.
• 37:27
  The speed at which you are growing. Yeah. The level of, you know, things that are happening to you that are new every day. It's hard to be a kid. I've told this story. My oldest one, it's, you know,
• 37:40
  again, to rehash a tale as old as time, you know, graduated fifth grade. Here, middle school, sixth, seventh, eighth. You know, graduates fifth grade, he's like, "I'm gonna be with the fucking big kids."
• 37:49
  And two weeks in, he was like, "I am with the fucking big kids. Holy shit." And- Yeah, this is hard... could not sleep, was like, "Oh my God"- Mm-hmm... this and this, 7,000 things going through his head.
• 37:57
  And he's the ADHD one as well. Mm. I remember sitting down, being like, c- very clear he was being, you know, existentially tormented because every moment of every day is existential once, and you get to that point. Yes.
• 38:08
  And then it only gets worse. That's a really... [laughs] E- everything is life or death. And I remember being like, "What's going on? This and this?"
• 38:13
  He's like, "God, e- everything, everybody's got drama, and people mad about this, and I can't tell. And the girls are nice to each other here, but they're not here.
• 38:20
  And then there's guys, and I feel like they've all got their lives figured out." And I was like, "Yeah, man, there's a reason they make movies about middle school." Like- Mm... nobody escapes alive.
• 38:29
  Because again, like you're saying, it is a lot. You're not- Right... just coloring pictures anymore, man. You still don't get to be a dick to me. Uh-huh.
• 38:37
  But I'm trying to have more empathy 'cause it really is the first... And again, memory is what it is, how it actually operates, but it's, it is the first stage where I'm like, "Ooh, I really remember that," you know?
• 38:48
  Yeah. And how rough it was and how just- So hard... I just tried to tell him the other day, I was like, "Everything everyone is doing or saying is fueled by raging insecurities." Oh.
• 38:57
  "And it's usually not about you, but that doesn't mean you don't have all of that yourself. Like, it's fucking nor- And then you come home," and your dad's like- Yeah. Right. You come home...
• 39:04
  "Pick your shit up off the ground." Right? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly, has more demands, even if they're nice. Or even, you know, even if your parents are like, "It's time for cleanup."
• 39:12
  I mean, I'm sure you've heard this before too, but it's also, you know, if you're lucky, your kids feel safe at home. And so when we feel safe, we let ourselves suck a little bit, you know? Yeah.
• 39:23
  And I work with a lot of kids where either they don't feel safe at home, and they're kind of like shoving that down, or you see the other thing where they're kind of letting it slide in other places which create, you know, sadly even more problems, right?
• 39:38
  Yeah. I remember very early on, our daughter, who's in the middle, was s- very difficult, and she has mostly recovered.
• 39:47
  But I mean, she was probably two when some mom told my wife, like, "Oh yeah, they're always gonna save their worst behavior for you." Yeah. And she was like- Yeah... "Fuck. Always?"
• 39:56
  'Cause at least in part, that they feel safe, right? Yeah. Um. I hate that shit, though. Yeah. I'm still such a bitch to my mom sometimes. [laughs] I mean, she's an amazing woman. She's, like, the greatest mom.
• 40:07
  And I'm just like, I can feel it in my body. I'm fucking 41, and I can feel the vitriol. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Which is usually right when I feel insecure or I'm overwhelmed, I'm like, "God, why are you doing like that?"
• 40:20
  Yeah. We have a family trip coming up, and it's gonna be me and the kids, maybe my husband, my brother, who doesn't have kids, and his husband, and then my parents, who are boomers, and it'll be, like, regression city.
• 40:33
  That's for sure. Yeah. And I'm trying to think ahead of time, like, my escape routes and, you know, how I can manage it or find healthy explorations of my various forms of grief and rage.
• 40:42
  Okay, I have another ADHD question for you, Sarah, out of the blue, but the parents who are kind of new to medicating their kids for ADHD- Mm-hmm...
• 40:49
  by, I know it depends on the kids, but by and large, what do you find yourself telling them when they say, "Should I take the summers off medicating my kid?"
• 40:55
  I mean, for better or worse, I approach most of these things with a lot of nuance. Think there's no one answer to a lot of questions about something like ADHD. And so I'm less interested in that.
• 41:08
  I mean, that's, like, the bad news I will tell parents is I wish that there was, like, you know, some big research-based answer that I felt really comfortable with that I could tell you, but there isn't.
• 41:18
  The good news is that you get to kind of think about who your kid is and, and who you are and, you know, make an interesting decision and see how it goes and be a human being about it.
• 41:30
  So I think there are some people in my field, you know, I diagnose ADHD, but I don't dispense medication, but who would say that, you know, if you have ADHD, you have ADHD, and it should be kind of a challenge all the time, and so why would you take kids off of meds on the weekends or the summer?
• 41:51
  I used to, I think, really ascribe to that. You know, now I think the more kind of families and kids that I've known- Uh-huh... the more that I think it's really complicated.
• 42:03
  You know, some kids have side effects that aren't great. Yeah. It messes with their eating or their sleeping. And so it's always like a compared to what thing. Mm. Right? It's like meds compared to what? Yeah.
• 42:15
  And so if the what of going off of meds is kind of has some benefits to it, that's an important thing to think about. Yeah.
• 42:23
  I think we don't do enough talking to kids about how they feel on their meds and really making space for that. And so I think what a kid wants is really important there. Some kids want a break.
• 42:38
  Other kids say, "I don't feel like myself- Yeah... unless I'm on my meds." And so I would trust them there. So I don't think there's a wrong...
• 42:46
  thing to do, except making some executive decision without your kid's input- Yeah... that is harmful. I used to think of ADHD medication as, like, your sit down and focus pills, you know, and- Yeah...
• 42:57
  like, your be good pills, and then I realized that my son, and I heard that another woman, another witch mention this, and I forget exactly how she said it, but it was like, "My son has social engagement issues if he doesn't take his meds, and he needs-" Right...
• 43:09
  "to be from everybody." Yeah, impulsivity. And now it's easy for me to say 'cause now we've been through this for several years, but you're going into it, you don't know.
• 43:15
  But I'm like, yeah, I can tell my son feels dysregulated when he's not medicated, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and he's not good at articulating how he does feel when he's- Yeah... on his medication.
• 43:23
  But yeah, I used to think, like, it's some kind of form of freedom for them to be unmedicated, but that's not necessarily true, depending on the kid. Quinn, do you guys do summers off or weekends off from medication?
• 43:33
  No, not yet. I mean, so it's been three-ish years, something like that.
• 43:39
  I mean, we'll occasionally forget, obviously, though we try not to, especially 'cause he's also got some decent allergies, so it just happens to be that we take all of the stuff at the same time. Mm-hmm.
• 43:49
  Um- That's my problem with taking ADHD meds, remembering to do it every day. Sure. Yeah, I mean it's- I had a little song that I would sing- Mm... when I did it- Yeah...
• 43:56
  to, like, you know, kind of make the moment bigger, but I would still forget. Pro tips. We- Pro tip... so- Oh, it goes, "I'm taking my meds, I'm taking my meds."
• 44:04
  And then once I take it, I go, "I took my meds, I took my meds." Right. Yeah, you can keep that. Very straightforward. Yeah. We'll go with the intro. So you don't- Um-... take time off, really? Uh, we just don't.
• 44:15
  It's, you know, his is definitely more the impulse control stuff. Mm-hmm. Also, like, his mind, in a beautiful way, but also increasingly frustrating way to him now that he is,
• 44:29
  can separate himself a little bit and is consciously aware of it, is, like, untamable. Yeah.
• 44:35
  And that can be totally f- fine if he's on a field or in a pool or whatever, as long as he's, like, literally following the rules, which is anyone's guess at that point- Mm-hmm...
• 44:46
  truly, 'cause he's not totally aware of it. The hardest time is honestly, like, trying to get to sleep if he doesn't do it, because he cannot turn it off, and he- Yeah...
• 44:55
  he is, like, a small man at this point and will still come into our room and be like, "I have..." He, and he is, we have great sleep hygiene we're crazy about. Yeah, a lot of- Um... ADHD-ers- And he just, he-...
• 45:05
  have, have trouble with sleep. Yeah. The biggest reason we finally did it, and we weren't against it at all, we were just like, "He's a boy. It, like, he, it, maybe, it'll grow.
• 45:14
  He'll see, like, how much of an effect it is." It was during COVID, et cetera, et cetera. But it was during COVID in the sense that he wasn't in a classroom, but this kid was under his desk on Zoom school in 10 seconds.
• 45:26
  Yeah. And that, so was every kid for a while, obviously. Mm-hmm. But he, faster than I thought, and w- w-
• 45:34
  less, except for get back in front of your screen, he became very aware that he was incapable of focusing the way a lot of kids were. And he- Yeah... started to get pretty, pretty down about it.
• 45:45
  That's when we were like, "Full stop. We're not gonna... That's not great." Uh- Mm-hmm... obviously, you wanna have all your emotions, but I was like, "Oh, this turns into 14 years old is, that's not a great thing."
• 45:54
  Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. Really. The self-awareness is one thing, but, like, the w- things he said to himself was like, "Oh, we need to help him- Yeah... more." That's our job.
• 46:01
  I think that's a big turning point for a lot of parents is in that meds decision- Yeah, but-... is when they start to hear their kids kind of feeling bad about themselves. Yeah, I was like- Um-...
• 46:10
  "Oh, we've done everything. We've done-" Mm-hmm... "every ritual and thing." Yeah. You know? And it seems like taking meds would make you feel bad about yourself, and sometimes it does, right? Yeah.
• 46:18
  Sometimes a kid does internalize, "I am, something's wrong with me, and I have to take this thing to fix it." Yeah.
• 46:24
  But if you do it well, and, you know, you can't control everything that, you know, your kid internalizes, but I think you can have a narrative that is affirming, that helps build the child that you want to turn into the adult you wanna see, right?
• 46:41
  That is the long game, right? That you are growing this person who's able to say, "This is how my brain works. This is when it works for me. This is when it doesn't. Here are the tools that I have- Yeah...
• 46:52
  to try to work around that, and medication is one of them. And, you know, and ultimately I do it for myself."
• 47:00
  But the other thing, too, you know, just to go back, Claire, to, you know, the being in the classroom versus not, is I think a reality, you know, in 2025, is that we do medicate a lot of kids who are ADHD because we want them to be more amenable to the classroom, right?
• 47:18
  And because, with great love, teachers can't handle them. Yeah. And we probably wouldn't medicate them if they were in a different kind of situation. ADHD is a totally environmentally bound condition, you know?
• 47:34
  It really depends on context. And for a lot of kids, like, the context is just so different during the summer that they still have ADHD, but it doesn't feel impairing. Yeah. And for other kids, it does. Yeah.
• 47:45
  For us, just environmentally, like, the thing that doesn't change is w- again, we keep active, but we try not to do too many things.
• 47:51
  They totally all do better when they are doing some sort of, however you wanna phrase it, activity, athletics, whatever. Mm-hmm. It does help them sleep, it does tire them out- Yeah...
• 47:59
  this and this, it helps them eat, all that stuff. But, you know, we were also just on him so much more than we wanted to be as- Mm-hmm... parents, and that also seemed really unfair to him.
• 48:13
  Like, in things where I'm like, he has no idea he's doing this or not doing this, and that just seems really unfair.
• 48:19
  Don't I want this to be a, as much as you can [laughs] with a 9, 10, 11, 12-year-old boy, you know, who's still a moron, like, a more practically productive and accepting thing, as opposed to just- Yeah...
• 48:31
  "Oh, my God, come back to the table." And, and then- "Move your notebook"... that is parental change, right? Totally. Some of that is, like, we have to own, you know, are we having reasonable expectation?
• 48:39
  Are we, you know, are we having empathy? You know, can we notice...
• 48:43
  Like, I've never had a parent do this, but I have teachers that I work with sometimes-With a kid that's particularly driving them crazy just try not to change their behavior.
• 48:52
  They always do a little bit, but, uh, take a sticky note in your pocket all day and just write a slash every time you redirect them, even if it's nice. Mm. Mm.
• 49:00
  Even if it's like, "Hey, you, could you get back to your seat?" Right? It doesn't have to be mean to feel like- No... overwhelming. So there is some adult change there. Yeah. But I think that's really valid.
• 49:11
  You know, there was this big Paul Tough article about ADHD in kids in The New York Times Magazine recently. I don't know if you, you read that. I wrote a little bit in my newsletter about my response to it.
• 49:22
  I mean, I thought it had a lot of good things in it, but, you know, the main thing that he was talking about is that these long-term studies of the efficacy of ADHD meds kind of don't really hold up over, you know, really long periods of time, 10 years, things like that, that we don't see that the, like, promised benefits of stimulants last and really make meaningful change.
• 49:46
  I have a lot of, you know, bones to pick with kind of how those studies measure things, the limitations of looking at a child's life through just a couple variables.
• 49:58
  But I think one thing that, you know, that definitely isn't looked at, that he didn't really talk about was, well, what does it do to the family dynamic when you have a kid who is more regulated, who is less impulsive, who, like you describe your son, feeling kind of all over the place, who is not feeling that way anymore?
• 50:19
  And that stuff matters, and it's harder to quantify even if you give a parent, like, a survey. But it's not just about, you know, academic achievement and, you know, n- not doing drugs or whatever.
• 50:31
  It's also, you know, how much you're having negative interactions with your kids- Yeah... matters. Yeah. And you should work on that. That is our responsibility, too, but it is- Of course... transactional.
• 50:41
  Like, same thing, like, you know, teachers should make a million dollars, but same thing with their coaches.
• 50:45
  Like, I would love for the coaches to make every effort to accommodate each kid as much as they possibly can, whatever their abilities or restrictions. Don't care.
• 50:52
  We're not in high school or college or whatever, you know? It's not serious sports. But at the same time, they've got 15 other fucking kids to deal with as well as my kid. Oh, yeah. I've got two other kids to...
• 51:03
  You know, it is about the environment. Before we had our ADHD, I don't wanna say under control, but medicated. We had a good therapist.
• 51:11
  We're not in a bad place right now, but yeah, we certainly would think about how we looked, you know, and how it reflected on us, that kind of behavior, you know, and you just get so worn down. That was it.
• 51:22
  It's just, like, I... And that's, I guess, my empathy button, and also I've coached kids forever, and I love kids, and, and this and this. It's we are already asking a lot of them. Yeah.
• 51:30
  Not to say, 'Okay, I gotta fix my kid so it's easier for the coach." No, but you can't separate those things entirely. Yeah.
• 51:36
  And these teachers who I see them go to such lengths, but it is also my job as a parent to make it the best environment for the...
• 51:43
  Uh, like, I'm a big believer, and I wrote a whole long thing about, like, giving a shit about other people's kids as well. Yeah. And that matters. Yeah.
• 51:49
  You know, my kid's not gonna ruin the learning environment, but he's- That's, yeah... gonna make it harder. Well, that was the shaming element that I started to feel. For everybody. That's what he started to notice.
• 51:56
  He was just like, "Everyone's always on me," and I'm like, "That- Yeah... is tough 'cause it's not in your control." Yeah.
• 52:00
  No, I felt that way 'cause I remember I'd get calls from school 'cause he was, like, running away from the principal or hiding under the table.
• 52:06
  And I have, obviously, my own hangups about gender and having boys that I'll work through in time, but I had this straw man good little girl in my head who was, like, this little girl, whoever she is in class, just wants to learn and behave, and my crazy kid won't let her, and I felt so bad, you know, and so much shame from that.
• 52:22
  And I don't think about, think in terms of that anymore, but that's how I was like, 'He's ruining things for all the, the good kids," basically. I'm glad, again, I've gotten my shit together more or less, but- Yeah.
• 52:32
  And I mean, I wanna hold that.
• 52:33
  Like, I work with teachers a lot, like, general ed teachers, and, you know, I'm always working with teachers to kind of be able to tolerate that more and to have better strategies and to, you know, there are ways that you can design lessons that are much more engaging to an ADHD brain and are much likely to kind of bring out the things that are challenging in an ADHD kid, right?
• 52:56
  So that's important, and this is the reality, right? And I, I have a friend who has an ADHD kid, and her thing- Mm... that she always... It's become, like, a joke, but I know she's serious in some ways, is forest school.
• 53:09
  You know, is she's, "Should we get an IEP, or should I send her to forest school?" [laughs] "What should we do, meds, or should I send her to forest school?"
• 53:15
  And it's such a good kind of placeholder for this idea that there could be an environment where our kid didn't need to change to be happy, right? And I have seen some cases where that kind of works out.
• 53:30
  I have seen parents that, you know, pulled their kids that did Waldorf school or forest school or that. I don't think that then those kids never had any challenges, right? Right.
• 53:41
  There's still the social interactions that we're talking about. There's camp. It's really hard to, you know, in the modern world, set up [laughs] an environment where an ADHD kid can never have problems.
• 53:56
  You know, but we can hold that, yes, if there was more forest school in all schools, probably it would be less of a problem, right? Of course. Probably other kids would be bothered less. Teachers would be bothered less.
• 54:08
  At the same time as being like, "Well, these are my options- Mm... this is the world my kid lives in," and they feel bad about themselves. Yeah. Like you said.
• 54:14
  I have a goal of creating one of those prison schools that, like, Paris Hilton was taken to, only just, like, less, just on the verge of legal and not abusive, so that there is an option, just one that your kid cannot say that you are a bad parent.
• 54:28
  Yes. Forest schools would be amazing. Are they an option? No, we're gonna have no schools in six months. So- Yeah... let's do what we can. Most- Most certainly. Yeah. Yeah, right. We're all gonna be in forest school.
• 54:37
  Yeah. We're all gonna be in fucking forest school, foraging for shit with Paris Hilton.
• 54:41
  But yeah, again, that is really the, and, and we focus on a lot in m- m- my other work, which is helping people understand first, like-Control what you can control right?
• 54:53
  It's great to hope for that stuff, and there's a lot you can do to actually make your schools better, and I can go on about that all fucking day. Oh, yeah. Not just for your kid- Yeah...
• 55:01
  certainly, but- Yeah, I definitely-... larger structural thing while your kid is having a hard time, it's a tough one. Yeah.
• 55:07
  I mean, because of what I do for work, I do, like, neurodiversity trainings in my school, and for the teachers, and I also, w- a group of parents, we do, in April, we do an autism acceptance month kind of read-in- Mm.
• 55:19
  Yeah... where we go to every class and we talk about neurodiversity. And, you know, it's not a big thing, but yeah, yeah, I want, you know, all kids to kind of have more acceptance, and all teachers.
• 55:31
  Can I ask you two more Q&A-type questions? Mm-hmm.
• 55:33
  One thing is that I get questions sometimes from Evil Witches readers, and I think I'd emailed you from this, asking for help for people who are married to neurodiverse folks, and it makes it very challenging to co-parent when your other co-parent is, you know, starts writing the grocery list and then runs off and leaves a trail of destruction behind them.
• 55:51
  So what helps you, or what have you told other people helps kind of set you up as a parent with ADHD to do the parenting and whatever else you need in a way that works with your brain?
• 56:00
  Well, I will say I'm married to a very patient person who, like, I've been with for 20 years and really likes me, and I cannot believe my luck.
• 56:11
  But I think, you know, Quinn was talking about this, just the kind of self-awareness.
• 56:16
  I think that for me, when I got my ADHD diagnosis and I started kind of framing a lot of the way that I work in the language of ADHD, it really helped me be able to kind of advocate in my relationship for what I needed and talk kind of impersonally about my brain and how it worked best.
• 56:36
  And so that's when I got to a place where I could be like, "I am never going to fill up the car with gas. I don't know how to explain this to you, but think about something you hate.
• 56:49
  That is how I feel about filling up the car with gas. Everything about it makes me completely insane.
• 56:55
  Would you, instead of just being like, 'Hey, we need more gas,' and me kind of pretending I'm gonna do it and then, you know, basically just pushing it until we're, like, you know, very close to breakdown, would you just do it?"
• 57:07
  And he was like, "Yeah." You know? I... Sure. That is so different from kind of denial and avoidance, right? Mm. To just be like, "Would you give me this gift?" Yeah.
• 57:18
  [laughs] "I'm doing this thing I hate that you don't really mind. And also, is there something you hate that, that I can do?" Yeah.
• 57:24
  And so I think when I see, you know, folks where it's the most challenging to have an ADHD person in the couple, it's usually when that person is not really super self-aware of their ADHD. Mm.
• 57:39
  So that's hard when you have a partner that you, like, want to grow and they're not. Yeah. But I think it's also very reasonable to sit someone down and say, "I love you. I wanna be able to be with you in this."
• 57:51
  And I think the way to do that is to have some education and get some kind of language around this. And so that, that's what I see that's really good.
• 58:00
  There's some, you know, adult education s- resources that I like more than others. But yeah, I mean, it's hard. Yeah. It is hard to be partnered with an ADHD person, but it's also, like, fun.
• 58:12
  Like you said, you know, Quinn, your wife is the fun one. Mm. Like, being- It's, it's not even close. Yeah.
• 58:19
  I think spending less time, this is true of kids, too, spending less time in my relationship with my husband kind of in a weird dynamic about the things that I suck at- Sure...
• 58:29
  less time for me to do the things that I'm good at, right? But it's also, let's take a step back and go, I don't have ADHD.
• 58:35
  I am also difficult to have a relationship with for a variety of other fun fucking reasons, you know? It's like- Yeah... there's always something. We've all got it.
• 58:44
  It's hard 'cause you're an adult and you're like, "Well, I've made it this far," and it's like, yeah, I mean, sometimes by the skin of your fucking teeth, you know? And how about, and you've overcome with these. Yeah.
• 58:52
  But now you live with another person. Yep. In the end, you're in charge of three other people, which is a whole other fucking problem, even if everything was going great, no matter how much care you can get.
• 59:02
  'Cause now you're also dealing with grandparents, and you're also dealing with- Ugh... their likes and opinions and their schedules, and they're all slightly different. "No, remember, this one doesn't nap anymore." Like,
• 59:10
  it took us a long t- and you're fucking tired, right? Which makes- Yes... everything- I, I've, yeah, I think you can't say that enough... 1,000% worse. Mm. Yeah. Everything is 1,000% worse.
• 59:21
  I do think those kinds of disruptions bring about, you know, and not to sugarcoat it, but there is something interesting about disrupting your typical- Mm-hmm... dynamics- Mm...
• 59:33
  as a couple that allows you to kind of learn some things that, you know, might be like breaking the fourth wall in a way- Yeah. Yeah... of, of what couples do together. Yeah. You know?
• 59:43
  So I, I have friends where, you know, the mom does not do mornings. Mm. She doesn't wake up. Mm-hmm. She does not wake up, does not get the kids ready. She does pick up, and it's great. It really works for them. Yeah.
• 59:55
  You know? And so I think sometimes we think we have to, like, always be in things together, and we think that we have to, uh- We fought over that shit for so long...
• 1:00:03
  and, you know, women, I, you know, more power to you, too, because, like, women do become the kind of logistical tracking things default. Yeah. And a lot of mothers I know with ADHD feel, like, an added pressure.
• 1:00:18
  Something I have noticed with my son is that he does have some superpowers when he does take his medication. He really locks in, like, when it comes to things like puzzles, art, very detailed art, um- Mm... sports.
• 1:00:31
  Do you have any superpowers as an ADHD parent where you, like, are really good at something that, like, you know, your typical boring n- neurotypical parent might not be as good at? Well, I told you about the claw game.
• 1:00:43
  Yes. Clearly. We're not, we're a winner. I will play the claw game until victory, and I once, I have won some stuffed animals that, like, can't be taken on a plane. [laughs] You know what I'm talking about? Right.
• 1:00:53
  I mean, I think that-I am able to turn anything into an adventure. Yeah. At times that drives my kids crazy. They're like, "Can't we just go do the one thing?" Mm.
• 1:01:03
  But, you know, when they were little, like before COVID, we used to do bus adventures. This is like where my brain is just like so happy. Mm.
• 1:01:12
  Like, where we just get on a bus, there's four different buses in our neighborhoods, pick a corner, pick a direction, and then- Mm... you just ride the bus and look outside, and when you see something good, you stop. Mm.
• 1:01:22
  You get off. And you get off, and you go see that, and then you get on another bus, and, you know, that is...
• 1:01:28
  I think my best place as a parent is when I'm kind of delighting in the little things about the world alongside my children. I don't do great with sitting and drawing, or my kids love doing art.
• 1:01:42
  I'm, like, happy for them. I find that w- if I have a crossword with me, a newspaper or something, then I can kinda do that. Yeah. All right. One more question.
• 1:01:51
  And, and I'm acting as if Quinn doesn't have his own questions, but these are my main questions that I wanted to ask you. No one cares what I think. This is my whole life.
• 1:01:56
  Back to school, unfortunately, is gonna be a topic before we know it, and so- Yeah, I know. I'm already getting, like, PR emails. Right. I mean, I have since May, about back to school stuff.
• 1:02:05
  Let's say someone is listening to this podcast and their kid does have an ADHD diagnosis on hand, but let's say this kid is somewhere between in elementary school, middle school.
• 1:02:14
  Is there anything that a parent with a kid with ADHD needs to think of, big picture, in terms of back to school that k- parents might not otherwise?
• 1:02:20
  Like, I'm thinking, for instance, a friend of mine showed me a template, we talked about this a few episodes ago, introducing her kid to his incoming teacher, saying, "Here's what I'm good at. Here's where I need help.
• 1:02:29
  Here's where I may need some accommodations." What are other things that parents who have kids with ADHD or that the kids you work with might wanna think at, about ahead of time before school starts? Yes.
• 1:02:39
  I know there's IEPs, you know, to, to track down. That depends on the school district.
• 1:02:43
  But anything else that you would tell parents besides getting your hair cut and your school supplies and whatnot, that, you know, is good to have on hand before school starts?
• 1:02:50
  Yeah, I mean, I think for all kids, I think about, do they need some downtime before school starts? I know for some, you know, there's kind of like a ethos that ADHD kids need structure.
• 1:03:01
  I find that to sometimes be very true and sometimes not at all. And structure can look really different for different purposes and in different contexts.
• 1:03:09
  And so there are definitely some ADHD kids that do not wanna be kicking around for a week before school starts, and for others, like, that would be incredibly nourishing to just be like- Mm... or even two days.
• 1:03:21
  You have f- two free days, you know, do whatever you need to kind of veg out and recharge. I think that it's probably not too late for this.
• 1:03:30
  I always encourage parents to gracefully and humbly enter into conversations with their school principals and teachers about class placement for their- Right... ADHD kids. Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  You know, never ask for a specific teacher. That will, like, put you on a principal's bad side.
• 1:03:49
  But just kind of i- checking in about, "Hey, I just, you know, last year we learned this about, like it worked so well that Miss Whatever, you know, had this kind of teaching style and her classroom kind of felt that way.
• 1:04:01
  I just wanted to... You know, I'm just thinking about this year, and I'm wondering if that can be considered." Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:04:08
  And then I just always to know, back to that piece about how exhausting a school day is for a kid, that just to prepare yourself as a parent for you might have a week, you might have a month of your kid just needs to come home and be in a dark place- Yeah...
• 1:04:24
  with a snack. Maybe they are on screens more than usual- Mm... and you can, if you feel like you can pull that back when it's time. But, but they might be really exhausted- Yeah... for a while, and it's okay.
• 1:04:36
  That's really good advice, I think, especially for newer parents.
• 1:04:38
  I still was fucked up by this song I used to listen to when Paul was a baby, like from this children's musician, and she had this line about, "The best part of my day every day is when I get home from work and I see you," and that makes...
• 1:04:48
  It always put this image in my mind of its parents and children being, like reuniting at the end of the day and being so happy to see each other, instead of being like, "Oh, you know, and this is the snack you give me?"
• 1:04:58
  And, "Fuck you, you want me to what?" And so that, it's been nice to be like you're not a bad person for just everyone retreating to their separate- It's so hard. Yes.
• 1:05:06
  I have these images in my head of, you know, first thing in the morning, or, "Have a great day at camp," and it's just, it's sometimes it's sweet, and other times it's not.
• 1:05:13
  And the way that our brains work is we pay more attention to the not sweet ones, too, and we remember- Yeah... those more. Yeah.
• 1:05:18
  I think it comes back to the thing of could you challenge yourself to shut up after school, and just what would it be like to just drive in the car or whatever without asking about their day, and with just kind of being together, if you think you have a kid who kind of is easily overwhelmed.
• 1:05:35
  Yeah. You know, not asking them what they wanna eat, giving them a plate of a few options, and just kind of letting them chill. Yeah.
• 1:05:43
  And giving them that kind of break time before you get into your needy, I wanna connect with you time. Yeah. Or, I admit, I do this to myself, where I will put their things on my to-do list, honestly.
• 1:05:53
  So I will be like, "I can't rest until they finish their schoolwork." Exactly. That's not- Right? They're not- That's a you problem. Yeah. Yeah. That is a me problem. Yeah.
• 1:06:01
  Okay, Sarah, tell us about your podcast, and people, like, look, crossover, if people are listening to Not Right Now, why they should listen to- Yeah...
• 1:06:08
  The Mother of It All, and also what your rules are in terms of talking about your kids. I don't know if you have a kind of guideline for that. Well, that, that's an interesting one.
• 1:06:14
  I've been having some conversations about that with a few different people. Yeah, my c- podcast is called The Mother of It All.
• 1:06:20
  It's hosted with the lovely Miranda Rake, and we kind of dive into the culture of motherhood and parenthood, and we have a lot of guests, and sometimes we just, you know, jabber on together. And, yeah, it's super fun.
• 1:06:32
  We just finished our second season. Congrats. You can listen to it everywhere you listen to podcasts, and you can subscribe on Substack.
• 1:06:38
  And then I also, I, for about five years now, I've written a Substack called Mom Spreading, that is kind of loosely about parenting- Incredible name... neurodivergence, existence. Yeah.
• 1:06:50
  I couldn't believe it wasn't taken. We, we thought of it, and then we were like, "Surely," and I, we looked it up and it was just porn.So, so now it's me and porn. Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:59
  Yeah, and then I have, I have a parent coaching practice. I do a lot of navigation with parents too, in terms of, like, when you have a neurodivergent kid, like, kind of the questions you're asking, like, "All right.
• 1:07:09
  Great. Now I have a diagnosis." Like, "What do I do now? How much do I push the school versus try to adapt to them?" You know, "What do I do about meds?" That kind of decision-making that is very overwhelming. Yeah.
• 1:07:20
  And I just wanna let listeners know that Sarah's been really a wonderful resource as both, like, a witchy mom and also an ADHD expert, so she can give you the straight dope, but also, like, talk to you without making you feel bad or, like, that you are an asshole for asking these questions.
• 1:07:35
  But- That's the goal. Build that- [laughs] You've had a journey, and you've done very well. Thank you. Yeah, and, oh, God, talking about my kids, I mean, my kids are seven and nine.
• 1:07:42
  I think that all parents have to have some humility about only knowing, like, parenting so far. Yeah. Right?
• 1:07:49
  Like, definitely have seen parents who are writers, as their kids get older, uh, you know, have to kind of change their philosophy and their practice. I do write about my kids. They, like...
• 1:07:59
  I mean, in theory, they love it. They're always like, "Put me in your newsletter," or, "Did you talk about me on the podcast?" But I'm not kidding myself that they really know what that is. Yeah.
• 1:08:07
  One time, my podcast played in the car, like, automatically from my phone, and it was a part where I was calling my son a dick. My kid was in the car, and I was so freaked out, and he was just like, "Oh, that was funny."
• 1:08:23
  Yeah. Oh, God. That- That's- Yeah, it was, it was, it was an interesting moment. But, you know, I, I was talking to Jessica Slice, who is a wonderful author.
• 1:08:33
  She wrote this book, Unfit Parent, about disabled parenting, and I've interviewed her on the podcast. It's one of my favorite interviews ever. Two of my favorite interviews, 'cause we had her [laughs] come back. Yeah.
• 1:08:42
  But she was writing in her newsletter on Substack about this question about writing about your kids, and particularly, you know, for a disabled parent and also when you have neurodivergent kids, you know?
• 1:08:54
  I think that she particularly feels like her kids are, you know, vulnerable. Mm-hmm. So it's kind of an added anxiety around kind of sharing their stories, and are they theirs to share.
• 1:09:04
  And she talked about, you know, that a lot of disabled adults have the experience of seeing non-disabled parents write about their disabled kids like they own their stories- Yeah...
• 1:09:14
  and like they understand everything that's going on with them. But, you know, for now, I'm like, I write from my perspective. This is my thing. And I think it's...
• 1:09:24
  I do think it's hard when we say that parents can't talk about real parenting, you know? These are our lives, and these are the things that, again, we're, like, experts on and we know a lot about.
• 1:09:36
  And to kind of limit that, it gets into some tricky stuff about sexism in writing and media content. Uh-huh. I don't know. I mean, just, I think measurably, we...
• 1:09:49
  Clare and I definitely talk shit about our kids offline more, more specifically, like sharing social security numbers about them. We do find, like, more naturally, and again, it,
• 1:09:59
  you know, probably some of this was directional, but it ends up being more about our parenting than about- Yeah... the kids. Yeah.
• 1:10:07
  And again, you know, it's fun to have a few little zingers in there, and I think people identify with that, for sure. Zipping your kid's butt is funny, and- Yeah... I'm sorry. Always, especially when they're 13. Yeah.
• 1:10:16
  But I'll take it off if you want me to. Yeah, I think people seem to identify more with the, "Here's how I'm feeling about this- Oh, yeah... parenting this and that," you know? Yeah.
• 1:10:25
  And I also, I feel like usually when I'm really down about something, which is usually a combination of kid plus parenting, if I express it...
• 1:10:33
  And again, yeah, but I think in Quinn's terms, like, where I'm feeling, putting it out there often does so much to address the problem.
• 1:10:40
  If not actually getting you help, just articulating it and hearing at least one person be like, "Me too," you know? And, uh- Even hearing other parents. Like, and you have to be specific, right? Yeah. It's like- Yeah.
• 1:10:50
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, Sarah, I wish we could talk longer, but- We've kept to it the whole time. Thank you so much... we've gotta go with- This is a delight. I would talk for hours more.
• 1:10:59
  Thank you, Sarah, really appreciate it. Yeah. Anything else you wanna promote or mention before we let you go?
• 1:11:05
  Oh, I didn't mention when we were talking about, like, adults' understanding of ADHD, I think my favorite writer is Joan Wilder. She writes about women with ADHD. She has two books that are available, like, on Amazon.
• 1:11:20
  They're pretty cheap. She just self-published them, but they're really good, and they're just, like, practical stuff about women and ADHD. But, I mean, I think they kind of apply to everyone.
• 1:11:30
  But, you know, if my wife had ADHD, I would buy her one of Joan Wilder's books- Okay... or look through it myself and be like, "Oh, that's the thing she's doing," right? Mm-hmm. That's good.
• 1:11:39
  So I can at least have some empathy. [outro music] That's it for this week. You're gonna make it. You're doing great. Or you're just doing it.
• 1:11:56
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