Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / This is Spinal Tap (1984) - Rob Reiner | Houselights #127

Transcript

This is Spinal Tap (1984) - Rob Reiner | Houselights #127 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the nerd Polity. Hi. We're coming to you from the studio
0:24
of Marty de Birdie, where we are analyzing the work from the nineteen eighties
0:30
where he followed the band Spinal Tap on tour as they went through a metamorphosis.
0:35
I'm one of your hosts, John Mills, and I'm joined by fellow
0:39
documentarians and Ruddles fans Tristan Riddell and Darren Moser. Gentlemen, are you excited
0:46
to talk about Spinal Tap and if so, how would you place your excitement
0:52
level on a scale of one to eleven. Tristan, I'll let you go
0:55
first. Well, you know, you know when I had the when I
1:00
had this microphone made, I really thought, you know, like I really
1:04
want the listeners to feel me in the arrear, you know, like I
1:08
really want them to feel like I'm making love to their ear canals. And
1:14
so I told the guy. I told the guy went to be an h
1:17
photo, you know, like, I told them, I want them I
1:19
want this cranked up. I want it cranked. I want you to crank
1:23
my mic you know, I want you to just grab it by the base,
1:26
crank it up and put it to eleven. He said maybe you could
1:30
just you know, like put it in and said no, no eleven and
1:34
Darren while you were laser printing his love pump. What adventures have you gotten
1:38
into? Uh? Yeah, no, I've been very much enjoying this band.
1:45
I feel they really came into their own when mini disc became the preferred
1:49
standard. It was really sad that when that standard promptly died and so did
1:53
their popularity. We recovered, as everybody knows. You're listening to house lights
2:00
here on the Nerdparty Network. Go to the nerdparty dot Com slash contact let
2:05
us know if there's anything you'd like us to cover, a director you'd like
2:09
us to cover, or some strange combination. Maybe a Thunderdome show off contest
2:15
between Christopher Nolan and David Fincher, who emerges victorious. But here we are
2:23
bracket. Oh yeah, I know, ting we just missed March too.
2:27
We should have had a March Madness bracket with our man. That would have
2:30
been that would have been still March in the Southern Hemisphere. I was gonna
2:34
say that, really, I think that that really would appeal to the listeners.
2:37
Yea from our show, that really would have that really hits our target
2:39
demographic. That Ben diagram of March Madness and this podcast it's like a circle.
2:46
Hey listen, March Madness isn't going anywhere. Neither are we because we're
2:49
sitting here to talk about This Is Spinal Tap, and this is a film
2:53
that you know, I'm not even gonna bother answering the question. I have
2:55
no working memory of the first time I saw it. It was somewhere in
3:00
high school because everybody was quoting it and I was like, what the hell
3:02
are you even talking about? And then I watched it and I was like,
3:06
okay, and it immediately became a touchstone. Everybody referenced it left and
3:10
right. Tristan, you did not have the same experience with This Is Spinal
3:15
Tap. So take us through your your you know, your burgeoning relationship with
3:20
this fictional band. Well as as I'm doing that, and kind of before
3:24
I start doing that, I do want to mention that, like we are
3:28
entering the house of Reiner, and specifically Rob Reiner, and so like this
3:32
we're tackling his movies of the eighties, and I'm so excited that, you
3:38
know, like sometimes when we when we pick a decade of a director,
3:42
it's not always the first director. It's not always the first decade that they
3:45
start working or that they get their first motion picture. And thankfully, with
3:49
Reiner, this Is Spinal Tap is his first major is theatrically released movie,
3:55
because he did two movies two TV movies before that, but this is his
4:00
first theatrical release picture, and I think that's pretty great. And what we're
4:03
going to be covering is This Is Spinal Tap, The Sure Things, Stand
4:08
By Me and The Princess Bride and when Harry met Sally. That's that's him
4:13
of the eighties and like some of you as his as his career progress,
4:18
He's did, He's done Misery, A Few Good Men, North, The
4:23
American President, Ghosts of Mississippi, Story of Us. Uh, it starts
4:28
to go down as time goes on, but anyway, we would argue it
4:30
starts to go down once he releases North. But he way, I really
4:35
like The American President. Um, but but yeah, like these are these
4:40
are some amazing movies. This guy has had a fantastic career and it's going
4:46
to be interesting talking about him in regards to This Is Spinal Tap, because
4:50
Spinal Tap is unlike anything else he's done in his career, like he does
4:56
spinal Tap, and then Christopher Guests or Christoph Guest, Christopher Guest, Christopher
5:01
Guest, Christopher Guest kind of takes that and runs with it, and he's
5:05
like, Okay, I'm going to keep doing the mocumentary and Rhiners goes in
5:09
a completely different direction. And so it's gonna be it's gonna be hard to
5:14
say, like, oh, and this is final tip, where do we
5:15
see Reiner? It's gonna be a little difficult with that. No, I
5:20
would say that let's just table that one. There's no where do you see
5:25
Rhiner. I think that, if anything, the more salient part of the
5:30
conversation is where do you see the editors flexing? Because there's there is I
5:35
think a lot of effort to make this flow in a certain way, and
5:41
I think it has less to do with directorial choice. I would say that
5:45
Reiner, being the comedic actor first, is more there to be sort of
5:51
like a steady hand on the wheel for setting up the format and getting things
5:56
to go. He knows he's there to play the straight man, and it
6:00
gives him an excuse to interact with the camera if they ever break the fourth
6:03
wall. It's a good fallback, I would say right that, I would
6:08
say that this plays very much to a comic instinct for a director more than
6:14
your traditional sort of film, because I'd say it's more comfortable for somebody who's
6:18
used to performing in front of the camera then say somebody sliding behind it.
6:24
I would say it would be more of a challenge for say like a Leonard
6:27
Nemoy to come in and do Star Trek three, even though he's observed directing,
6:30
he's used to being in front of whereas I think this splits the difference
6:33
for Ryners. So I think it's a very good first step into you know,
6:38
theatrical stuff gets him very warmed up with everything, while at the same
6:43
time, you know, speaking to his desire to perform itself. And on
6:48
top of that, like this is, with this being more of an editor's
6:53
movie and a performer's improv the director kind of is like a captain of the
7:00
ship, where they're a project manager, and someone who's been in the industry
7:04
as long as Ryner has, being an actor and seeing everybody, seeing tons
7:11
of greats work around them and being on tons of sets knows how things work.
7:15
You know, it's done a few TV movies, and so it's basically
7:17
his job to make sure everything's in working order so that his performers can do
7:20
what they need to do. And I know that that's a very bland description
7:27
of what our director does, but with this kind of movie, it's very
7:30
important because you want to let these people do what they do. You want
7:33
to let these people not have to worry about anything except just doing whatever comes
7:39
to their brain and just having that conversation. And you can really tell that
7:43
these people and these actors feel comfortable, and Ryner puts them in a position
7:47
where they feel comfortable where they can improve and do what they do what they
7:49
need to do. But to answer your question, to get to kind of
7:53
circle back, yes, this is the first time that I've seen it all
7:57
the way through. One first time i've seen this. I've seen bits and
8:01
pieces here and there. I've known a little bit about the history. I
8:03
know about its cultural impact. I know it's on tons of top one hundred
8:07
lists and like it's on the one thousand and one movies that you need to
8:09
see before you die. I think it's it was inducted into the Oh geez,
8:16
what's the American film preservation whatever that's called. Is it the registry National
8:20
Film Registry or the National Film Registry. I think that was done in ninety
8:24
two. And then Reiner had another film, I think it was in twenty
8:28
sixteen, was The Princess Bride. So he has two films in there in
8:31
the registry, so that's pretty awesome. But no, I was never one
8:37
for this type of movie. Like my wife is a is a big fan
8:41
of Guests, so but she actually hadn't seen this movie either, so she'd
8:48
only seen the guest directed films, so she hadn't seen this one. So
8:50
both of us watched it for the first time last week. Very cool.
8:56
Looking forward to delving Moore into that, Darren, Is this a try in
9:00
true classic? Is this a permanent entry into your VHS stable? I say,
9:05
when you own it on VHS DVD blue. Now, I'm just kidding.
9:07
I don't know what I'm any any of those. Uh No, this
9:11
was probably another living with film students in college and so someone had it on
9:18
their DVD rack. I mean that's where we would start if before we went
9:20
to Blockbuster down the street, we would just look at our combined DVD collection
9:26
because there was so much to take from. And yeah, so that was
9:31
my first introduction to this is final Tap. I probably haven't watched it since
9:35
then, so like early aughts, it's been a while, but yeah,
9:41
it was. It's bizarre because yes, you can tell there's a lot of
9:48
improv going kind of a so and so is going to interject a word and
9:54
then the other person has to kind of run with it, like they'll start
9:56
to say like, oh, yeah, when we when we did that,
10:01
we went on tour, we went to that city, and then one will
10:03
say like Memphis, and then they just have to run with Memphis because they'll
10:07
agree and just keep going like they never contradict each other. They never say
10:11
no, no, it was somewhere else, Like they just take the ball
10:15
and keep moving it forward. So you know, yeah, yes, yeah,
10:18
yes, and and but it's so bizarre watching this because honestly, you
10:24
could show it to someone who has no knowledge that this is a mockumentary and
10:30
it's like just on this side of the needle that they could believe this is
10:35
true an obscure band, like it is so legitimately made. You know,
10:41
it's not Ken Burns, but it's still but a lot. It's better than
10:46
ken Burns ahead and say different people actually went up to Ryner and said,
10:50
we love this is Spinal Taps so much, but you probably should have chosen
10:54
a more well known band. I think that's hilarious, that huge. It
11:01
is a huge compliment. But I think that has just as much ado with
11:03
the fact that Christopher guessed Michael McKeon and Harry Shearer are not the most household
11:11
names, not just in nineteen eighty four, and they're also not very recognizable,
11:13
like visually, like they're very made up. Yes, well, but
11:18
I mean Michael McKeon had been on Lavernon Shirley and so he's been on network
11:22
television, but he's still treated. And maybe this is the strength of Rhyner
11:28
is that even though he is somebody who's been on television, he's given the
11:33
opportunity to sort of blend in and not you know, reveal the magic trick.
11:41
Right, He's able to go in there. They have just enough hair
11:43
coming in on his face and that changes his facial features just enough that he
11:48
can disappear into it. And I think that this is we keep doing this
11:54
to ourselves in the sense that it's like two thousand and one in the sense
12:00
that what is there that is hasn't been praised about this film at this point,
12:05
like this is one of those one of those movies where anybody who doesn't
12:09
love it feels timid about entering into the conversation. Talent even if it's not
12:18
your favorite. Yes, something like that. And in terms of recognizing the
12:22
talent, this was not a well recognized film when it was released. They
12:26
referred to it as having quote unquote modest success. But it made a four
12:31
point seven million dollars in North America on a two million dollar budget. Yeah,
12:35
that's not great. That is VHS this, I would argue that this
12:41
is spinal tap, just like the terminator for Cameron. Home video market creates
12:50
the legend. And if this was out before the era of easily accessible home
12:56
video you or HP or you know, something like that, then it is
13:03
a much easier film to lose track of and becomes much more of a very
13:07
hidden niche movie. But Tristan, bringing it back to this sense of performance,
13:16
your first time coming at it, you obviously have full knowledge that this
13:20
is all a gag. Would you have been able to look like basically,
13:26
were you able to look past the people that you recognize, which by this
13:30
point is all of them. Did you lose yourself in the narrative at all?
13:33
Did you lose yourself in the characterizations? Oh oh, that's a that's
13:39
a solid question. Um. I want to say yes, but I think
13:41
I'd have to honestly say no. This is um you know, like at
13:48
the beginning, it was very much you know, like it's Rob Rob runners
13:52
always look like that. Besides, you know, when it was all in
13:56
the family. But when um, like when Michael McKean comes on, You're
14:03
just like, wait, wait, is that is that Michael McKean, Like
14:09
that has to be mine? Because I didn't know who was in this movie,
14:11
Like I really didn't know who's in this movie. And like I was
14:15
like, Michael McKean is so young, his face is so angular, Oh
14:20
my gosh. And and then when a guest comes on, I'm just like,
14:24
heay, is that one guest? I think that one's guest? You
14:26
know, like it's so so Basically, for the first five to ten minutes,
14:31
you're playing that game of is that so and so? Oh man,
14:33
that's Michael McKean, that's guess, that's your Holy holy crap, that's Fran
14:37
Dresser, Why what is she doing here? Billy Crystal and Dana Carvey?
14:41
Okay, all right, sure, why not? Why not? So you're
14:43
playing that game for a long time, and then once you're past that,
14:50
it's not so much the characterizations that get me. It's just the reactions to
14:56
the events that are happening around these p people. Like when you look at
15:03
you know, guest is playing Nigel or McKean as Hubbins or Sheer as Derek,
15:11
I'm not really thinking like, oh, that's such a Derek thing to
15:13
do, or that's such a Derec thing to say. I don't think the
15:16
characterization is that unique, because I feel like they're all kind of on the
15:20
same level and they're doing all kind of the same character except for you know,
15:26
there's a Yoko character that you know Hubbins is involved with, and you
15:30
know you have that storyline. But so I wouldn't really say that I got
15:33
lost in the characterizations. I just was interested to see how these characters were
15:39
going to react with whatever mediocrity was coming their way. Darren, was this
15:45
ever a film where you didn't know who was in it, like who all
15:48
the players were, and did that enhance your viewings through the years. But
15:56
like, have you lost any of that magic now that you know how the
15:58
trick was done? No, because, like I was saying, you know,
16:06
this is early enough, it's long and it's long ago enough eighty four
16:08
that a lot of these actors look different and they're also wearing wigs or stylized
16:15
and I mean, obviously they're known actors, but not to me, like
16:18
I don't. I don't know them enough to have that be a factor in
16:23
pulling me out of the story. So yeah, I mean I recognized fran
16:26
Dresser and I recognize some of the other mostly because of voice, but like
16:32
that's what we all do. And but no, it was fun because I've
16:34
just again you kind of start to feel yourself falling into it of like was
16:41
the producer actually a producer who they just grabbed to just do this? Or
16:45
and you know, I again, I know everybody, but you have like
16:49
the janitor, Like is that just a janitor who you know? They said,
16:53
hey, come over here and do this, and you're gonna be in
16:55
two shots. Like I totally I would say, I know that didn't happen,
16:59
but that could happened. And it's just the interesting thing for me in
17:04
looking up about this movie after the fact, was because I was like,
17:07
this feels like a Saturday Night Live movie. This feels like a sketch movie
17:11
because it's really these little moments of the band gets lost backstage and can't find
17:18
the stage, like that's a gag. That's a gag moment, you know,
17:22
the building the set at the wrong scale, or being stuck in the
17:27
on stage elements until the song is over. And then I looked it up
17:32
the like, yeah, that that was the original, you know, genesis
17:33
of This was kind of a sketch comedy and it still holds to those roots.
17:41
But I think it does a great job because of the mockumentary style of
17:45
fleshing that out into I mean, it's only what eighty two minutes. It
17:48
is definitely boom boom, done and here you go. But I feel it
17:53
doesn't suffer the how are we going to turn this into a movie syndrome specifically
18:00
because it is taking the mockumentary framework. I think it works really really well,
18:06
Like it's yeah, it's behind the actor's studio, it's you know,
18:08
it's shot so straight, like the filmmaker is the straight man, and that
18:15
lets everybody else be the funny man. I think that's a great point.
18:18
I do, and sort of going along with that, tryson, do you
18:25
think that it is that structure that the fact that it doesn't get too far
18:30
away from quick sketch bits, that it's just a quick succession of sketch bits
18:36
that it. Do you think that that makes the storytelling more successful and more
18:41
engaging as a quote unquote documentary format, The fact that it doesn't seem to
18:45
be following a rigid script, that it's not trying to It never feels like
18:51
it's trying to force a point. It has vignettes that you're used to seeing
18:55
chopped together in a documentary. I think, okay, I'm going to answer
19:02
your question with a with a little bit of a story time. So,
19:07
um, when we watched we watched this as spinal tap in preparation for this
19:11
podcast, and then a couple of days go by and we couldn't figure out
19:14
what we're going to watch, and so I was like, let's watch a
19:15
bad movie, you know, like what, let's watch a movie that's ridiculous,
19:19
just to blow off some steam before we go to bed. And so
19:22
I was just like, oh, we just watched this as Spinal Tap like
19:25
Mystery Men. Yeah, I'll still I can't believe we review that one.
19:29
Um, but we watched Spice World, the Spicecroll movie where they you know,
19:37
they're followed around, they're on they're on tour, not kind of ontour,
19:41
like they're in preparation for a live show and everything like that. And
19:45
if you want to see a movie about nothing that has no plot whatsoever,
19:48
and it's filled with ridiculous events like way over the like even alien alien visitors
19:53
kind of thing that's treated completely normal, you know, watch that movie.
19:56
It's fantastic, but it's it's horrible. It's tastic, but it's horrible.
20:00
That is a movie about nothing. That is a movie that that feels like
20:04
there's no structure and is aimless. Spinal Tap didn't feel aimless to me.
20:08
It didn't. It didn't feel and I'm not saying you said that, but
20:11
it didn't feel like there was lacking any structure. Because even even good documentaries
20:17
will have beginning, middle, and ends and have sections and scenes that are
20:22
that tele cohesive story. And I think this does this very well. You
20:25
can tell that Ryaner and Guest and McKean and shere. You know, they've
20:32
seen their fair share of documentaries, Like, you cannot make this kind of
20:37
movie without being well versed in the format, and this follows that format to
20:42
a t. Like this is very much like like documentary now on IFC.
20:49
Have you guys seen that show? Now? It's it's phenomenal because every episode
20:56
is a parody of a well known documentary. And um, it's Bill Hayter
21:02
and oh, I can't remember his name. He was on snl um,
21:06
no one knows his ethnicity? Um, Fred and Armison. Yes, it's
21:11
Fred Armison. It's it's Isn't it terrifying that I knew exactly you said that?
21:15
It's like, yeah, Fred Armison got to So I'm so glad that
21:17
you knew. But it's by Bill Hayter and Fred Armison. And if you
21:19
like spinal Tap, you need to watch documentary now. I think it's on
21:22
Netflix. Um, but every single episode and and that's it's like when you
21:27
watch it, you're just like, holy crap, these people know documentaries.
21:30
If you're going to spoof something, you have to know the genre. Like
21:33
looking at scream, um, you know, like Wes Craven was spoofing himself
21:38
and he and it wasn't massobatory, it was it was well, it was
21:42
well done. He knows what tropes work, and then he plays off of
21:48
them, like you. You can't just say I'm gonna make a documentary.
21:52
I've never seen one before. So I think I argue with your premise.
21:56
I think I think this very much has a point and it's very much going
22:00
towards something. Oh, I wasn't saying that. I was saying that this
22:04
the loose structure, the fact that it I mean, I think we're essentially
22:08
saying the same coming from sketch bits right that basically a documentary doesn't have a
22:15
clearly defined boy meets girl, goes off to fight, war, comes back
22:18
home sort of thing. A documentary is always you may have a beginning,
22:22
middle, in an end, but it's not necessarily super linear. Like you
22:27
have an insert here where you're talking about the amplifiers and it goes something to
22:33
advance the character, but it doesn't advance the story. Like it's not like
22:37
there's a script beat where it's like, yeah, we need a scene about
22:38
amplifiers here. No, I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Yes,
22:42
well, wouldn't be the first time. It won't be the last either,
22:45
and that's okay, Darren. My question to you is, obviously this
22:51
is about a fictional heavy metal band, and we all know heavy metal is
22:52
a fantastic genre, but not everybody plugs into it it. Were you,
22:59
at any point a heavy metal fan or does this play into your stereotype of
23:04
what you think heavy metal artists and fans are. Like, So, at
23:10
my church that I worked at for for many years. One, I love
23:15
that this story is starting with So my church. Yeah, it's I'm strapping
23:18
in for this one. So one of my good friends, Les Carlson,
23:23
is lead singer for a Christian heavy metal band called blood Good and it's amazing,
23:30
Like he carried he's like the soprano and he's like Belton Belton out for
23:36
the love of Jesus. Are they on Spotify? We could probably find them.
23:40
Yeah, they are. They're they're legit but like and they're really big
23:42
in Sweden. Like I'm not making this up, Like that sounds like spinal
23:48
tap awesome. So it's called blood blood Good but yeah, and because Michael
23:53
Bloodgood is the little little legitimate last name of one of the members and they
23:57
are on Spotify, yeah, and they totally have that that looks. Yeah,
24:03
it's like that barbed wire like a German barbed wire font Germanic and their
24:11
top song is called Lamb of God. No surprise, now, Lamb of
24:14
God is a terrific heavy metal band. Sorry to interject that go on,
24:17
Darren, but but yeah, anyway, so no, I kept picturing that
24:22
in this because if you've ever met Less like he's got the long hair,
24:26
I mean, he and his wife met on the original production of Hair like
24:32
the Broadway play where I guess they all get naked in the end. I
24:37
haven't seen it, but apparently that happens in the movie play. Yeah,
24:41
so and then they got married. It's a fun story. But but no,
24:45
but they're awesome, amazing people, as they like to call it.
24:48
They have their BC days there before christ days, where things are a little
24:52
more fast and loose and fun. But but he's a really humble guy and
24:56
a and a great individual. One of the things were a little bit more
25:00
one I love. Yeah, you know, you know anyway, but no,
25:06
I so that's that's how I view this. And I just kind of
25:10
keep picturing Less or Michael like in this. And obviously it's you know,
25:12
a different decade, different kind of thing. But uh, yeah, no,
25:17
and so that's as close as I get to heavy metal. It's it's
25:21
Christian Christian heavy metal. But that it did not diminish my enjoyment of this.
25:26
And again it's I don't know if it's something about the fact that it's
25:30
still shot on film. I mean, obviously it's eighty four, so it's
25:32
shot in film, but it still has that grain. It feels real,
25:37
it really does, and it is. It just makes it the more hilarious
25:42
real quick before. But I ask another question, like, I'm glad you
25:45
say that, because there is something that was charming about being able to tell
25:51
by the type of lighting and grain and quality of the film. How well,
25:56
yeah, exactly following Yeah, it was literally shot like a documentary.
26:00
Yeah it was shot on sixteen millimeter. Oh wow, Okay, it totally
26:03
looks it. Yeah, like that had to have been a specific I counted
26:07
the grain and I said, sixteen millimeter, it's got to be. No.
26:11
I think it's it's an incredibly smart decision. Not only is it cheaper
26:15
to shoot on sixteen millimeter, it gives it a specific texture can feeling look
26:19
that Screams m seventies and eighties documentary. Yeah, just as a quick question
26:26
to interjactive, either of you ever seen Anvil The Story of Anvil. No,
26:33
it's a great title though, so well, so long as we're so
26:37
long as we're talking about this is spinal tap, and anybody listening if you
26:41
haven't seen it, Anville The Story of Anville is essentially imagine a documentary about
26:48
a real life spinal tap. That's that movie, like, and it's real.
26:52
It's it's not a gag, it's real. And Anville is recognized by
26:59
bands like Matta Alka as an influence but they never ever broke through, but
27:04
they never ever gave up, and they like it's it's a it's a mind
27:08
blowing thing. I love to to interject it in a conversation like this.
27:12
But well, it's funny because I haven't seen it yet. But I almost
27:17
now wish I had watched The Weird the Al Yankovic Story, because that's another
27:22
very recent take on the kind of mock. You know, it's not a
27:29
documentary, but it's a mock story of his life by plagued by another person.
27:33
Have you seen it? No, I have not seen it yet.
27:36
It's it's garbage. It's nothing like that stinks. I'm sorry to hear that.
27:40
That's really that's really so basically all the good parts around the trailers where
27:45
yeah, none of it. It's nowhere near as good as you think it's
27:48
going to be. Oh that's disappointing now speaking of of you know, nowhere
27:53
near as good as you think it's going to be. Obviously, spinal Tap
27:56
is plagued by a whole bunch of vine yets. Tristan, was there one
28:02
specific bit that you think was more successful as a comedy bit than any other?
28:07
Like, is there one where like the movie was over and you were
28:08
like, that's the one thing I'm going to remember this movie for. Oh
28:11
geez, them the Stonehenge coming down. I mean, it's just I lose
28:18
I lost my mind. I just thought that was so freaking funny, because
28:22
like you you start screaming at the TV. You're like, why would they
28:29
even use it? But then you're just like, oh, because it's funny,
28:32
you know, like that because you have to have something ridiculous. And
28:33
then when I see Angelica Houston is the one who made it, that's just
28:38
mind blowing in itself. But yeah, like Stonehenge coming down, and like
28:44
the look on the on the guy's faces as they're playing their instruments, like
28:47
they're just like what um. But now that I'm talking when Harry, when
28:52
Harry shearm is trapped in his cocoon trap and he kept trying to play,
29:00
and then like as soon as he gets out, the bid is done and
29:03
he has to go back in. UM. I think I could give one
29:07
more when he starts playing. When a guest is doing a solo but then
29:15
takes a violin and just starts rubbing the violin obviously a play on UM.
29:23
Oh, John, you know this? Who's the guy who would use a
29:26
violin bow on his guitar? That one I can't recall at this point.
29:32
But there are so many people, whether it's biting a head off of a
29:33
bat or blowing up a chicken, or any of a number of things that
29:38
that heavy metal was supposedly known for back in the eighties. I mean,
29:44
in all honesty, I think that this is spinal tap. It's a shame
29:48
it wasn't more commercially successful because it's striking right at the time that the panic
29:53
about heavy metal is happening, Like the timing of this film, oh please,
30:02
But the timing of this film was perfect, was absolutely perfect, and
30:06
as a result, I struggle to think. But but Darren, you know,
30:12
yes, you know, what is your favorite bit from this? But
30:15
also, why do you think this you know follow up to that, why
30:19
do you think this is spinal tap didn't find any real audience and it's theatrical
30:25
release. Do you do you lay it at the feet of marketing or do
30:27
you leave it at the feet This is a gag that's tough for people to
30:30
get into in the eighties. Yeah, it's I mean, as Tristan kept
30:34
listing all the good ones, I had to start thinking of new things.
30:38
But no, I really like the stuck under the stage and can't find their
30:42
way out as I think it's hilarious, and I was almost expecting it to
30:47
go like a step further where like you finally see them bust through and like
30:51
everyone's gone and it's just like they just missed it and everyone's pissed off because
30:56
they missed their concert. But obviously that wasn't the butt of the joke.
30:59
But I did kind of see where it was going because I'm like, they're
31:02
gonna come and find that guy again because they went the wrong way. And
31:04
then two seconds later there he is again. He's like, oh, you
31:07
made a wrong turn. But that one and there was another one where it
31:15
was not a huge joke. Oh the fact that he had this custom guitar
31:22
that was wireless and it started to pick up like the plane traffic tower stuff,
31:30
which was really and he just gets so mad he smashes it. But
31:33
and you can totally tell like that they're not that venue's cup of tea,
31:37
Like everyone is just covering their ears and really pissed off. But um,
31:44
yeah, just those are my favorite, like big gags. I mean,
31:47
it's funny we don't mention the Ghost to eleven. I feel like it's so
31:49
ubiquitous, Like yeah, it's not that it has to be your friend,
31:53
your favorite. It's just the most well known period. It has that crown.
31:57
It's it's so iognizable and has been parodied so much. And John when
32:02
you when you said at the beginning of this of this podcast that it was
32:06
an editor's movie. That's the first thing I thought of was with the it
32:10
goes to eleven bit, because when Reyner and guests are going back and forth
32:15
and you know, Ryan are saying, like, why didn't you just set
32:17
it for ten? And like you can you see guests character and he's just
32:22
not getting it. He doesn't understand whatsoever, and he just has this confusion
32:29
on his face. He's like and then he says, he's like, but
32:32
this one goes to eleven and then it cuts right then and there makes it
32:37
even funnier. Yeah, because you just end on that bit and like that.
32:40
I think that right that moment, that cut is what shows you that
32:47
these editors and these performers know exactly what they're tells you what kind of knows
32:51
going to be because it happens fairly early. I completely agree, specifically because
32:57
in other hands, able to either end with Marty saying, why don't you
33:01
make ten as loud as eleven? Cut there and it doesn't land the same
33:07
way. Kind of funny but not the same, and then you have other
33:12
decision makers that would have it go on for another, you know, twenty
33:16
seconds or so, and it would no longer be funny for another twenty seconds.
33:21
You're absolutely right, it has to cut where it does. That's where
33:24
the punch is because we all get the joke by that point, and it's
33:30
why and that's the you know, that's the first rule of comedy sort of
33:32
thing, right, You got to keep it fast. You can't waste time
33:36
with anything. But yeah, but to answer your your second question, John,
33:40
I almost wish I could look up, you know, what came out
33:44
in nineteen eighty four March, like what was it up against? Like that's
33:49
not really a hot ticket window? How that where they was like top Gun
33:52
coming out the same week and they just got trounced. But I feel like
33:59
it maybe it's just a perfect storm of yeah, not enough marketing. You
34:06
don't have the Internet, so you don't have this kind of like this would
34:09
have thrived on the Internet culture, Like everyone would start talking about it.
34:13
It would be like you'd have memes and clips that would just go everywhere and
34:16
polipheral rate because it's a sound bite movie, it would spread like wildfire.
34:22
Now. But yeah, I don't know specifically why it didn't find it,
34:28
But it does make me sad though, you know, because we've heard we've
34:34
heard Matt Damon talk about this topic of the home video release and how that
34:39
like it's very much what kept spinal tap. Why we're talking about it now,
34:45
why it didn't just Blip and go Away is that it stayed relevant enough
34:50
and got rediscovered through home video. And again that's really kind of gone,
34:55
like that secondary market isn't really there anymore, and it is really changed the
35:01
types of movies that can be made and the gambles that can be taken.
35:06
But I wanted to know, John, what is your favorite spinal tap?
35:08
Can't be any of the ones that we talked about. Obviously, there are
35:14
plenty of I mean, obviously all of these things. I love all of
35:15
these things. But one of the jokes that I've always hung on too,
35:20
because I just think it is absolutely one of the most brilliant jokes because they
35:23
never draw attention to it, and especially when you're much younger and you don't
35:29
quite get it and one of your friends has to explain that they all have
35:32
herpies sores in the same scene, and they're all sitting there talking and nobody's
35:38
acknowledging it, nobody's covering up the sore, nobody's anything like that, and
35:42
it's all just sitting there and once you get the joke, you go,
35:46
oh, oh, no, right, and it's just this brilliant little moment.
35:52
And that's where I think that the like it demonstrates where the real,
35:57
the real strengths of the movie are is knowing when to lean into the joke
36:02
and when to let the audience work for it just a little bit. And
36:07
so I've always loved that. I've loved the fact that nobody breaks when he
36:15
says that Saint Hubbins is the patron saint of comfortable footwear. Nobody laughs.
36:21
He just tosses that off and keeps going. And it's like, that's just
36:24
one of those moments where it demonstrates how everybody is just in sync and everybody's
36:30
going along with it and nobody's gonna nobody's gonna be the first one to break.
36:35
And so those those are the sorts of things that I hold on to
36:38
in the movie at this point. Yeah, one thing about the herpies thing,
36:45
which I had that I had that discovery moment, Like I remember that
36:50
discovery moment where I'm just like, oh wait, what is what? Oh
36:53
all all of them have it? Oh God. But apparently I looked this
36:58
up and there was a whole subplot that was filmed but cut where they had
37:02
an all female band open for them and they all hooked up with them at
37:09
the same time and cut her piece from the all female band still would have
37:15
been funny. But I think the way that it ends up is funny.
37:19
Er Oh, absolutely absolutely, just because the way they play. So again,
37:22
speaking to that point, you know, that's an editor sitting there talking
37:25
with the director saying, you know, I think we could cut that and
37:28
still works and it's still funny. And a director, whether it to keep
37:31
your best material right, be like, oh, well we need twenty jokes.
37:35
Well, if fifteen jokes or bangers, you cut the other remainder if
37:38
you can. Well, I want to ask both of you, do either
37:45
of you have any memory of how much more relaxed airport security used to be?
37:52
Because every time I watched that scene, I'm like, man, I
37:57
wasn't flying for a long time, but I never realized I'd missed that.
38:01
I used to think it was a hassle in though in the nineties to go
38:05
for a flight. Oh my lord, Like you look at it now and
38:08
you're like, ah, how much less stress was there with the security?
38:13
Long are you just go and people watch? That was because nobody cared you,
38:17
just like warrior building with planes? Yeah, m no, I was,
38:23
um, I was fifteen fourteen fifteen when nine eleven happened, and so
38:31
like I was in high school, so I didn't actually do that much flying
38:34
like i've I've flew like maybe three times before before college, like you know,
38:40
like and then you know, I flew all the time for my career.
38:43
But no, I don't have that too many memories of stuff being that
38:46
laxed. Well, I didn't fly a lot. I hate flying. Flying
38:50
is awful. It's terrible. I don't like to be in a pressurized loom
38:53
and bullet hurtling through the sky. But I flew enough times. You make
38:59
it sound so appealing. Hey listen, man, I'm on my best day
39:02
up there is only as good as somebody's worst day work in the maintenance line,
39:07
So I'm not thrilled with that. But actually, before we move forward,
39:14
March of nineteen eighty four, around the same time that This is spinal
39:17
Tap got released. The weekend it came out, it was up Against Against
39:24
All Odds, which is a movie that came and went and nobody remembers all
39:29
that stuff except for I think the Phil Collins song was part of that.
39:31
He had repo man, you had Harry and Son, which is a big
39:35
you know, directed by Paul Newman sort of thing, and this is Spinal
39:38
Tap comes out, and then very shortly afterward you have Children of the Corn,
39:44
which is a Stephen King horror movie. There was a rerelease of Pete's
39:49
Dragon, and then you have Splash starring Tom Hanks and Daryl Hanna come out
39:53
shortly afterward, and then you're done. And then after that you have Police
39:59
Academy out. Everybody may love to make fun of it now, but it
40:04
was a hit. So I think that March nineteen eighty four just winds up
40:07
being bad timing for them, because by the end of that month as well,
40:13
Romancing the Stone comes out. So it's like those are three sizeable hits
40:19
that just basically made it impossible for Spinal Tap to really find an audience in
40:23
March of eighty four. So and it's also like, how do you market
40:29
this movie? Like how do you tell someone what it is and what they're
40:34
kind of going to experience or expect. I mean, obviously it's not like
40:37
The Matrix where you can't be told what the Matrix is. You have to
40:40
see it. Like I never understood that tagline, but I don't I would
40:45
struggle to try to quantify how to explain spinal Tap to someone who's just going
40:51
in cold and I want them to watch it, Like, yeah, I
40:53
usually when I talk spinal Tap, I'm talking with film nerds, and that's
40:57
a whole different discussion. So yeah, that you know that that is that
41:00
is true though, because you know, obviously word of mouth keeps the movie
41:05
going for a long time. Home video saves it and makes it the cultural
41:09
phenomenon that it is. Um. But I'm going to ask a I'm going
41:17
to ask you, Tristan, does this movie now that you've seen it for
41:21
the first time and this might tip off your rating, who knows? Do
41:27
you think it deserves the amount of cultural recognition and respect that it gets.
41:35
Yes, I do, I do. I do think regardless of how I
41:37
feel, positive or negative, I think I definitely understand why this gets the
41:45
attention that it gets. I mean, you look at what was going on
41:49
in eighty four and like even the late seventies and early eighties about what bands
41:54
were going on and who was waning who what I mean, Like the Stones
42:00
were getting into their forties at that time, you know, like that's like
42:07
for a rock star in their forties, like They even make that joke in
42:10
the you know, like who wants to be a rocker at forty five?
42:14
I mean, stones are still touring in there in their seventies. Hey listen,
42:17
Sammy Hagar is still one of the best shows you'll ever see. And
42:21
that man is in his mid seventies at this point. Highly recommend if he's
42:23
coming to your town to go see him. Oh yeah, this is not
42:27
a criticism of age whatsoever. It's just during this time, like rock stars
42:34
had a shelf life, or at least it was perceived as a shelf life,
42:37
and like there were so many hair bands and so many people who were
42:42
rock gods in the seventies, and then the eighties come around and things change.
42:50
Music tastes change, bands change, and you know, like you got
42:55
you know, like you like you have. It's like the age of George
43:00
Michael is happening, you know it like things like that. Not to pick
43:02
on George Michael. It's just like it was an it's it's it's an easy
43:06
it's an easy pull. Um, but it's the Oh. I was trying
43:12
to say, um, boy George, not George Michael. I was trying
43:15
to say, boy George. Yeah, Okay, all right, I think
43:20
really actually, um but uh, it's just like they're they're kind of their
43:25
age is over and and I think a lot of bands were figuring this out
43:30
and so to take it and like it also, like if you look at
43:35
some of the comments from people from Aerosmith or you know, like um Ozzy
43:40
Osbourne himself, you know, like they didn't laugh while they watched this because
43:45
they're like, yeah, this is the this is a documentary, Like we're
43:50
laughing at it, but they're like, no, this is our lives.
43:52
And some people actually didn't think like some people didn't think it was funny because
43:55
it was so accurate, and some people didn't think it was funny because it
44:00
was so accurate, you know, like it was it was interesting. Nobody
44:06
likes being the butt of the joke, right, and this one very much
44:09
like we see it as walking the line, other people didn't and so like
44:15
it's so quotable. It's great improv and it's not the type of improv where
44:20
it's Peter Seller's having a stroke in Lolita. It's a problem that actually feels
44:30
like a conversation that's fair. And so I say yes, And like I
44:34
said, regardless of how I feel about it. This very much deserves its
44:38
place on It deserves a criterion release, It deserves to be in the National
44:43
Registry for what it did at that time. So, Darren, here's a
44:50
big question for you. You know, this comes out in nineteen eighty four.
44:53
Tristan I think agrees. You know, he just said he agrees it
44:58
deserves the cultural impact that it has. Also in nineteen eighty four was twenty
45:02
ten the year we make contact. Do you think this is our window to
45:06
get Tristan to finally watch that. I mean, I thought we weren't watching
45:10
it because you were worried it wouldn't hold up again, That's true, I
45:15
was afraid of that. Yeah, I know, I'm all on board for
45:17
Tristan watching twenty ten. I think that would be a lot of fun.
45:22
Especially I'm still amazed he gave two thousand and one of five. I'm not
45:27
complaining. I mean, you guys really sold twenty ten, So it's a
45:30
lot of fun. It is really good. If I like this is spinal
45:34
tap, then I'm just kidding there poorly there you go, perfectly perfect segue
45:39
right there. Absolutely, But Darren, just just as like a final thoughts
45:44
sort of question when you come to Spinal Tap for the first time compared to
45:51
now, do you laugh still the same way that you did back then?
45:57
Or is this one where the joke has gotten old enough that you know it's
46:00
sort of like a it's a comfortable like there there are comedy movies you and
46:07
I both agree, Plain Strange and Automobiles. Tristan's a monster, but you
46:09
and I agree we still laugh very much at that film. Triston doesn't share
46:13
the tradition. That's a different way of putting it, but yeah, he's
46:16
a monster. Do you still laugh at this is Spinal Tap the same way
46:21
you did the first time you saw it? Or is this something where it's
46:23
like, you know, the joke's a little old, but you know and
46:25
you appreciate what you know. It's like an old friend that maybe you don't
46:29
have too much in common with anymore, but you know, you still have
46:31
affection. I mean, it's a it's a tricky answer because I'm pretty sure
46:37
the last time I watched this was when I was in college, so it's
46:39
been twenty years since I because it's not like, I mean, I don't
46:43
own a copy and I'm never like chomping at the bit to watch Spinal Tap.
46:46
Nothing wrong with it, but it's like, you know, there's a
46:50
lot of new movies and other movies to watch. But I will say that
46:55
and with almost fresh eyes, because I'm like, I don't know where this
46:59
is going. I don't know where the story is going to be. I
47:00
remember the pod and the you know that these go to eleven and I'd forgotten
47:07
the mini Stonehenge. But once they started going that direction, I literally saw
47:10
him write eighteen inches and I'm like, oh god, this is gonna go
47:15
very bad. So no, it was really almost a fresh viewing and it
47:19
still held up. It's funny it like I said it toes that line,
47:24
because comedy is hard, guys. It it's it could very easily been like
47:29
half of these jokes fall flat. And especially with these kinds of personalities,
47:35
if any of these personalities become annoying, you're done. And I mean they
47:42
could be annoying to each other, but if one of it's like the bass
47:45
player, which was super chill, so he wasn't annoying, but if one
47:46
of the leads all of a sudden just becomes grading, you're out of it.
47:52
You're done. You don't. You don't care. Whatever scenes this person
47:54
is in, you're glad he got kicked out of the band. But no,
48:00
I don't think it does that. I just say that's the balance you
48:04
have to strike with this kind of a comedy that with antagonistic kind of characters
48:09
that you don't want to have it dragged down by their reaction. But it
48:14
was funny, it's I mean, it's it's quotable. I always say the
48:17
mark of a good comedy is how quotable it is. If it could be
48:21
as funny as I'll get up, but if you can't remember a single line
48:23
from it at the end, it's really not that funny. I think that's
48:27
a that's a good barometer of that in Spinal Tap has it for just the
48:30
name. Just the name makes me giggle because it's like so over the top
48:35
pretentious and when they're describing, you know, the cover, we never see.
48:39
There's so much we don't see that they just describe. But one of
48:44
the things I like about the improv nature of this movie is, like we
48:49
were saying before, it's very much a yes and and it's like they're not
48:52
allowed to disagree with each other. So if they say, oh, yeah,
48:57
I remember that concert in then we'll just say Milwaukee, Yeah, Milwaukee,
49:00
Like now they got to start talking about Milwaukee, even though they had
49:04
no idea. They were just about to talk about that city. But it
49:07
works. You can feel it. It is a little transparent. You can
49:10
tell they are ad libbing to a point. But it is not that Peter
49:17
Seller's routine in Lolita where we were just like what is going on on this
49:22
deck? I think that'll go down. It's like the worst improved moment of
49:27
Houselights. But but no, but overall, yeah, I would show this
49:32
to to fans of you know, I need to find a time to watch
49:37
this with Less. I think that would be a really interesting experience, being
49:42
like, less, have you seen Pinal Tap And if not, let me
49:45
introduce you to this movie that is semi making fun of your life but not
49:52
but well, that would be an interesting, interesting evening. Well, anybody
49:54
who's a fan of heavy metal will absolutely get a kick out of album album
50:01
titles like Smell of a Glove and Shark Sandwich and all of those sorts of
50:07
things. But you know, here we are. Tristan will save you for
50:13
last. I'll go ahead and go first, with the ratings here, I'm
50:16
just gonna go ahead and give it a five. I adore this film.
50:20
I think it's just funny from beginning to finish. I still giggle every time
50:24
I watch it. In terms of quotability, I can recite this film backwards
50:29
and forwards pretty much. And I think it remembers the number one rule of
50:32
comedy, which is make it fast, just keep moving, don't fall in
50:38
love with your gag, and just keep running forward and don't don't look back,
50:45
keep running. And I think it just it works in every possible sense.
50:50
Darren, Where do you fall with it? You know? I was,
50:53
I was trying to think just with again, not having watched it very
50:58
often. But you know what, for being the first kind of mockumentary,
51:04
it has a very difficult time, which I think also was probably in how
51:07
difficult it was to market, because it's like, what is that? Like,
51:12
it's a it's an ongoing gag? How do you how do you talk
51:15
about that and share it? But it's trailblazing it. It's set up,
51:19
you know, so many of these types of movies, and pretty much every
51:24
joke lands like there's really nothing I can think of where it just went off
51:30
the rails or something like that. So I wouldn't, well, I wouldn't
51:34
say this is like my favorite movie. Like I mean, I haven't watched
51:36
it in twenty years. I don't own it, but every time I watch
51:38
it, of the two times I've watched it, I've enjoyed it and it's
51:43
been a lot of fun. So I'm going to give it a five as
51:45
well. And just so everybody knows, we already talked about Anvil, the
51:50
story of Anvil. I would also encourage anybody to do some research about Eric
51:55
Idol and the Ruttles, which was a a mock Beatles band, which is
52:01
a lot of fun. But I think everybody is absolutely on the edge of
52:06
their seat here, Tristan, to know what you thought of this is spinal
52:13
tap. I think, you know, seeing you guys give five stars and
52:17
then like you know, Darren gets a five star, John gets a five
52:21
star, and you know you asked me the question is that culturally relevant?
52:24
You know? It gives me flashbacks to two thousand and one, And while
52:32
I you know, put so much stank on my opinion for two thousand and
52:38
one, I very much do not do that here with with this is spinal
52:44
tap. With that said, this movie did not connect with me in the
52:50
way that I was hoping it would. I don't have any major criticisms,
52:57
like I don't like obviously it wasn't too long. Um, there was no
53:01
characters that I absolutely hated, Like there was like Darren was talking about,
53:05
like, there was no characters that I found in knowing. I thought the
53:08
Rob Ryner intro was a little weird and unnecessary, but just being nick piggy.
53:14
But there was just there was so much that just didn't land with me.
53:17
There wasn't anything that was painfully unfunny. There wasn't anything where I'm just
53:22
watching them just like okay, like that's ridiculous, that's not funny. Like
53:27
nothing pissed me off or anything like that. But there was so much where
53:30
I didn't even crack a smile. There was so much where I was like
53:35
on the verge of getting bored and I felt like things were getting redundant.
53:38
And the stuff that I listed and stuff that I talked about like I did
53:42
find funny, like the like the stonehee thing, and like the pods and
53:47
the violin, Like there's there's tons of bits that are really funny. And
53:52
as you guys know, and as we've talked about it, like it's wall
53:54
to wall jokes, and for me, it was wall to wall jokes.
54:02
And it's like when you watch Saturday Night Live, Like if you're lucky with
54:08
Saturday Night Live, you get one or two sketches that are really good and
54:13
the other ones are just painful to watch. That's not the case with this
54:19
is spinal Tap. That's this is not this is not the case. Like
54:22
the parts that are really funny make you want to cry because they're so funny,
54:24
and the other parts that I didn't connect with, I'm just kind of
54:28
like, Okay, you know that happened. It wasn't unfunny, like a
54:30
bad episode of SNL. It just I feel like I missed it. I
54:34
feel like I missed this movie that if I was if I grew up on
54:37
it, I would attach to attach to it more. But to me,
54:42
it just so much of it felt redundant. It didn't feel like it ended
54:46
very well. I felt it ended on a limp, a limp noodle,
54:51
And I think I have to give it like a three. And in terms
54:58
of that because I feel like it's culturally relevant and you got to know where
55:02
your history is from. But like say that this movie was released today,
55:07
I don't think it would even double its budget like it did in eighty four.
55:12
Well, this is another week where we find out that Tristan is dead
55:14
inside. Join us next week when we continue in the House of Rhiner and
55:19
we encounter the one film in this stretch that I haven't seen up to this
55:22
point. So I think this is all three of us have not seen this
55:27
Nineteen eighty five The Sure Thing starring John Cusack. Join us NEX