Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / The Art of Fine Dining: Alex Gonzalez's Service Secrets | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 106

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The Art of Fine Dining: Alex Gonzalez's Service Secrets | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 106 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs. This is Chefs PSA podcast.
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I'm your host Andre Natera. On today's episode, my guest is
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Alex Gonzalez. Alex is a service professional.
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We worked together for many years.
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He's a good friend. He's worked at some incredible
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restaurants, including being part of the Alinea Group, the
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French Laundry, Key Garrison and a lot of others.
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He is the best when it comes to service, at least the best that
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I know. On top of that, he's an
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outstanding artist. In this episode, we talk
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everything from art to creating memories in the dining room and
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what makes an incredible, incredible dying experience.
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I think you'll really enjoy this one.
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Stay tuned. Is that is that you got little.
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You only have a couple of grades.
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I got more grades than you would you got just for men in there.
0:54
And they're coming in, man. They're coming in.
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I'm like, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's coming in.
1:00
You gotta go. To Turkey, have you seen, have
1:02
you seen these people on Turkey like the side by sides?
1:05
No. Oh.
1:07
It's crazy. So there's, you'll there's like
1:09
these Turkish plastic surgeons and they like all these dudes
1:12
and women go to Turkey and they get all the plastic surgery, the
1:14
airplugs and all that, right. And so like they'll do side by
1:17
side and one guy is going in looking like, you know, the the
1:21
60 year old guy working behind the deli counter and he's coming
1:24
back looking like Tony Stark. Really.
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Yeah. It's wild.
1:27
I don't know if it's real or not, but it's wild.
1:30
Like I went, I went on a whole, yeah, I went down the rabbit
1:34
hole on Twitter looking at all these Turkish plastic surgeons
1:39
soon, man, you never know. Like the hair started thin.
1:42
I got to start wearing baseball caps.
1:45
Me and you both both got the caps on.
1:47
Yeah, shit. Anyway, it's it's good to see
1:50
you, man. It's been too.
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It's been too long for people that are listening that don't
1:53
know. You and I used to work together.
1:54
We opened up Garrison together, which is one of the better
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restaurants in Austin. You've gone on and done amazing
2:00
things. You're always doing amazing
2:01
things. And I'm going to share a story
2:03
for the audience. For context, I used to work with
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your wife Alice, phenomenal chef as well.
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And she was doing a pop up and I was her assistant that day.
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So I was, I was her sous chef. I was helping her out for
2:17
whatever she was doing in the kitchen.
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And you were running the service team.
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And I remember that's the first time you and I had met.
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This is like what maybe 2015, 2014 ish?
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Yeah, probably around that time, yeah.
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And I remember watching you in the dining room and I said, this
2:32
guy's good. To this day, I will say that
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I've never, no offense to anyone that I've ever worked with
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that's listening, but I've never worked with anyone better than
2:40
you with service. And that has the that
2:44
understands how to run a smooth service and is just polished.
2:48
So anyway, for context, starting out with that.
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So what we're, we're starting out with service, but also
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you're a phenomenal artist. So we can talk about service,
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but we could also talk about art.
3:00
And I also want to talk about how they how they weave together
3:04
a little bit. You're an amazing artist.
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I have two pieces of your art in my house.
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I wanted three. I lost one.
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I lost one to someone else. I got, I got the third foot,
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don't worry. About it.
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But but you, you're in the museum now, right?
3:21
I had. I had.
3:22
A. What was that?
3:22
Showing yeah, I had a showing at the the International Museum of
3:26
Surgical Sciences in, in Chicago.
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Yeah, it's right off Michigan Ave.
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It's a smaller museum and a lot of my work has to do with like
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anatomy and and the body and those sorts of images.
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Did a bunch of did a bunch of art in in my studio.
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Alice had gone to that museum during the summer, took our son
3:52
just for a kind of a summer, summer activity, right.
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Kids are out of school and got to got to keep him busy.
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So that was one of the activities that they had gone
4:00
to. And when she came back from
4:01
that, she had told me you like your stuff is perfect for this
4:06
museum. Like you should try to get in
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there. And you know, I was a little
4:11
hesitant just because, you know, I, I, the, the confidence wasn't
4:15
very high. And so I was just really
4:17
hesitant, kind of put it off for a while.
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And then one day I just submitted, sent my stuff in and
4:24
said I'd give it a shot and see what happens.
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And they reached back out. So it'd be love to have you your
4:29
work. It's a perfect fit for us and
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what we're trying to do with the museum.
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So I had to run, I had to run at that museum.
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I think I was in there for like two or three, two or three
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months. I was in there for so I had my
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own little, my own little exhibit.
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There was my work hanging there. It was really cool.
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It was a lot of fun. It was a really cool experience.
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Yeah, I, I mean, it looked like a cool experience.
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Congratulations. I I love the style of art that
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you do. It's really detailed.
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It's really interesting. It's very unique.
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Like I haven't seen it anywhere else.
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Did you get a lot of traction after that?
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Some. Yeah, yeah, you know it.
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It's I, I got, I got some interest.
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I got some people they were interested in stuff.
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I was able to sell a, a couple pieces as well.
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So it was it, it was, it was very fruitful, right?
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But most of all, for me, I think the, the experience of, you
5:28
know, going to going through that process and then beyond
5:32
that, right, like having to figure out how to curate, how to
5:37
curate the, the room, how you want them to, to, to be, to be
5:42
up on the wall. How are you pairing the pieces
5:44
together, how you want it to flow for your exhibit and, and
5:49
how you want people to, to take it all in.
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So it was that was, that was a fun part of the process and
5:54
hanging them yourself. And it was, it was just really
5:57
cool. One of the things that we did
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when we work together, well, I when I say we did, you did I, I
6:02
just took some of the credit like if it was my idea, but it
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was your idea 100%. That's what you do when you're
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the chef. It's like good idea.
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It's mine now. But but you drew the dessert.
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So it's one of the cool things that we did in Garrison was the
6:15
dessert menu was all hand drawn and and then it was folded up.
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I want to say it was like an origami.
6:21
It might be that was like an origami, right?
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It's folded up. Yeah, we had folded it into like
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an envelope, right? Like they can then open it up
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and see what the menu was. And what was really interesting
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about that is our dessert sales skyrocketed because of the
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artistic drawings of desserts. Because a lot of times when
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you're in a restaurant, you get the dessert menu and it's like,
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I'm not hungry. But this was, this was cool
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sketches of everything very artistically done with little,
6:46
with little lines explaining, OK, this is the meringue and
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this is the ice cream. And this is the flavor of the
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ice cream. And I thought that was super
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cool and unique. I had never seen it before and
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it was something that the restaurant I, I'm not sure if
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they still do it, but it was something that was done the
7:00
entire time that I was there. Now, when you think about
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incorporating elements of art into the dining experience of
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you obviously have been through some great restaurants, how have
7:12
you personally incorporate it? Or is there something that
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you've seen with other people incorporating art into the
7:18
dining room to incorporate it in service?
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That's like, OK, that's, that's pretty cool.
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You know, that that was like that particular situation, that
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was my first foray and like in in incorporating art into into
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service with that dessert menu. You know, I think obviously art,
7:41
art and food both, you know, creative outlets, I think that
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they both go hand in hand. I've, I've seen the most of most
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of the things that I've seen are more so in the traditional sense
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of, you know, this, this painting I want in this part of
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the restaurant, this painting I want in this part of the
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restaurant. And having that play play out a
7:59
little bit and kind of setting the mood for that room, if you
8:03
will, which I've also had. Yeah, I've, I've been able to do
8:08
that as well, right. I, I have some, I have about 6
8:11
pieces hanging, hanging at Alinea.
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And I was able to which chef Grant to kind of help curate
8:19
that as well. So that was, that was another
8:21
way of kind of incorporating art into service.
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But yeah, I mean, other other, other ways that I've seen or,
8:27
you know, the, the, what's the, the, the, the projection.
8:32
Have you seen those? It's like the the there's a lot
8:35
of like projection down onto tables.
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A little mini shuffle come walking from the projection.
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On the table onto that I I didn't know that was real.
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I I've seen I've seen little videos of that.
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I thought it was like oh this is just some AI shit I.
8:47
Haven't I, I haven't dined it any of those places, but I've
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I've seen it on on on the interwebs.
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But yeah, I mean, I, I, I haven't been fortunate enough,
9:00
shall we say, that I've, I've kind of just stuck to the more
9:03
traditional methods of, of hanging, putting some canvas on
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crew walls. Do you do you think art inside
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restaurants makes a difference to the dining experience?
9:12
I think it does, yeah. Yeah, I think it does.
9:14
I think in a way. It can also allow if you have
9:16
the right eye for it. Not necessarily the right eye,
9:20
but if you are looking for that as a guest, as a diner, for that
9:27
immersive experience, the full experience, right.
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Nowadays, you know, they're, they're, they're building
9:35
restaurants and designing restaurants to, to.
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You know, for. For Instagram, right?
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And I you know that is art unto itself, right?
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Trying to trying to paint the perfect picture for the perfect
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mood for the perfect shot, right?
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So that you can get all the likes and the thumbs.
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Up You want to have places in the restaurant where people
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could photograph themselves or they could take a photograph of
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the art in the restaurant as AI was here, right?
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You recognize the art. So I was here.
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So hopefully while you're here, you get to go to Matt's new
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place. Matthew Peters has his new
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restaurant prelude tons of art in there.
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I think you would really love it.
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I mean the the place is honestly, it might be the most
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artistic restaurant I've ever seen in terms in terms of the
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amount and quality of the art that is hanging in that
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building. Absolutely incredible.
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And then you should also go see Bacalar Gabe's place.
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He has a lot of Mexican art and they're really cool too.
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So I see that as something, if I, I see that as something cool
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that restaurants are doing when they do incorporate really good
10:37
art, high quality, I think it, it totally adds to the
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experience. You know, if you you walk into a
10:42
place and if you have, you know, imagine they have a a big coons
10:46
balloon right at the entrance or something like that, like that
10:48
would be cool. Everyone wanted to take a a
10:50
photo with that and 100. Percent.
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Yeah, yeah. It's it's clout for the
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restaurant. It's clout for the person taking
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the photo. Yeah, I, I think, you know, I, I
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think it's, I think it's extremely important, right?
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I think that you know, and, and art, right meant to, meant to,
11:06
meant to bring something out, meant to make you feel a certain
11:09
kind of way. And and you know that I think
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that the right piece can speak volumes and can absolutely add
11:16
to any experience, any dining experience out there for sure.
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What do you think about? And you know, just, I'm just
11:24
thinking this through, but like a lot of a lot of chefs consider
11:28
themselves artists. A lot of chefs consider
11:29
themselves Craftsman. My expression is artist or
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Craftsman. I don't care.
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Just make it taste good. Call yourself whatever you want.
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Are you an artist or just make it taste good.
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That's all I care about. But a lot of chefs are truly
11:41
artists like, like they could have easily gone into that
11:44
direction. Like if they have that artistic
11:46
talent, whether and you see how they they, their sauce work goes
11:49
or how they design plates or how easy it is for them to create
11:53
something aesthetically pleasing where other chefs is like, OK,
11:55
it tastes good, but you know, you can't make it look, it
11:58
wouldn't look good to save their life, right?
11:59
So I'm just curious, where do you fall on that line?
12:02
Are they artists, Craftsman? Or is it like like I said, call
12:05
yourself whatever you want and make it taste good?
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That's a good question. As an artist like I'm just
12:10
curious what your perspective. Is, I mean, I, I would, I would
12:13
absolutely say that it's a form of art and, and, and, and, and
12:17
craft, right? I think it's a little bit of
12:19
everything. I think it's multifaceted.
12:21
I don't think that there's there's one catch all for that,
12:26
right? I've, I've worked with, I've
12:28
worked with some really amazing chefs in, in, in, you know, in
12:32
my years, including yourself, right?
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And I think that I think that every from, from my experience,
12:39
the chefs that I've seen be the most successful have been chefs
12:45
that are also multifaceted in many different ways, right?
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A lot, a lot of chefs are really great artists too.
12:53
You know, I've been, I've been fortunate enough to work with,
12:57
with some that, you know, they're, they're very visual,
13:00
right? And most chefs, I think are used
13:03
to kind of getting the big legal pad, sketching out a dish, you
13:07
know, in there from their head and what they're what, what
13:09
they're, what they're imagining. And some of those sketches are
13:13
amazing, right? It's which is where I got the
13:16
idea for the dessert menu at Garrison's.
13:19
It's years of seeing chefs sketch on the big yellow pad,
13:25
sketching on the the walls at the restaurant, right in the
13:28
kitchen, like all of that. I think that I think that chefs
13:31
are, are, are, are creatives. I think that they're Craftsman.
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You know that there, there's, there's, they're multifaceted
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and there's no, there's no one catch all.
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I think that they're, they're, it's, it's a, it's a really hard
13:47
thing to be a really great chef. And it takes, it takes a lot to
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become come one. You know, I, I, I don't know
13:56
that there's just one term for that.
13:59
Do you, I want to ask you this because it's something that came
14:02
up in a conversation separately is I use a lot of AI and I use a
14:06
lot of AI to generate images for chef's PSA.
14:09
So I can put a meme up or whatever.
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And I'm getting better with it, right?
14:13
So I, the more I, the more I mess with it, the better the end
14:17
product is. I'm very efficient at creating
14:20
AI generated images. I don't, I wouldn't consider it
14:22
art because like I'm a, I'm better with prompts than I am
14:26
with a pen of drawing it, if that makes sense.
14:28
Like I could never, I could never draw that, but I could
14:30
create it digitally. So I, I know a lot of people
14:37
have come to me and said, you know, you're, you're taking from
14:39
artists and I'm thinking, Oh, I'm not 'cause I was never going
14:41
to pay an artist to make a meme for me, right?
14:44
I would hire an artist like yourself.
14:46
I would buy your art and put it in my house, which I have.
14:49
I wouldn't put my meme on the wall in my house.
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You know what I mean? So what is your perspective
14:58
right now like as an artist? Where do you where do you fall
15:01
on the whole AI generated content?
15:04
AI generated images? I say go for it.
15:09
Yeah. Why not?
15:10
I, I don't know that. I don't know that it would ever,
15:15
that it would ever take the place of an original piece from
15:19
an artist that you're a fan of, right.
15:20
I I don't know that that will ever take the place of that.
15:23
I think that it's, you know, it's, I think that it could be a
15:25
really great creative outlet. And I think for a lot of people
15:29
that maybe you wish that they could paint or draw or, or
15:33
sketch or, or be that sort of visual artist.
15:36
And it's really great way for them to kind of take a peek into
15:39
that world and, and have those prompts and, and do that and
15:42
create. But I don't know.
15:45
And, and I think it's great if, if you, if you enjoy doing that,
15:48
that's amazing. And, and you should, you should
15:50
continue, but I don't know that it'll ever take the place of,
15:54
you know, seeking out an artist. I really love this person.
15:57
I want to, I want to save, save a couple bucks and, you know,
16:01
get, get an original piece that I fell in love with and have
16:04
that in your house and, and feel it and touch it and, and have
16:08
that kind of tactile experience as well.
16:10
And I think that's really important.
16:13
One of the things that makes the properties of money right is
16:17
fungibility. Meaning you could exchange it
16:19
like for likes $1.00 is $1.00 whether it's wrinkled or not.
16:24
Scarcity, so a limited number. And then so fungibility, scarce
16:30
ability, salability over time and space.
16:32
So apples are a poor example of money because they would go,
16:37
they would start to rot before they ever got across the ocean.
16:40
So that's why gold is great money because over time it's
16:44
still going to look as good as it did 1000 years ago, right?
16:47
And it has to be scarce, meaning there's not a lot of gold.
16:52
You got to work for it, you got to mine it.
16:54
And because you got to mine gold, that's what makes it
16:56
valuable. If there was gold in abundance,
16:59
gold wouldn't be valuable. Those properties of money apply
17:03
to art as well. And they don't apply to digital
17:06
art because that digital piece of art requires very little work
17:09
to create. I mean, it's a, it's a matter of
17:11
putting in a prompt in an AI generator, whether you're
17:14
talking Dolly or mid Journey or something like that.
17:16
I could create it in a in a second.
17:17
And not only can I create it, anyone else that knows how to
17:21
create a prompt can create it within seconds.
17:23
So it loses its value. The amount of work that you put
17:26
into a piece that is, that is true effort into something and
17:31
it's one-of-a-kind. So it has that scarcity.
17:35
It has the same saleability. I mean, assuming it's it's
17:40
treated properly and it's restored, etcetera.
17:43
And it's coming from a human, an individual's creative thoughts,
17:48
in this case yours. And that's what I think makes
17:51
art valuable as opposed to digital art.
17:53
To your to your point where you were talking about early is that
17:56
I think digital art, yes, it looks good and it's great for
17:59
memes and things like that on on social media or, you know,
18:02
YouTube and all that. But it's never going to replace
18:05
the value that's attached to real art like what you create.
18:09
That's just my two sons, Yeah. That's fair.
18:11
Fairpoint. You want to be my art manager?
18:13
Yeah, my art agent. Let me get that.
18:16
Piece from Olivia done. Deal.
18:20
Let's make this happen. Let's.
18:21
Go Yeah, shit. It's too funny.
18:28
Anyway, where were we? We we got off subject.
18:30
We digress. I want to I want to tie art into
18:33
service and then, you know, kind of start going down that
18:35
direction. You've worked in some great
18:38
restaurants, no sense in naming all of them, but you worked in
18:41
the cream of the crop restaurants in the United
18:43
States, restaurants that are known for having exceptional
18:47
service. In your mind, having been in
18:51
those three Michelin star restaurants, what is exceptional
18:55
service and how do you define it?
18:57
And and maybe luxury service exceptional like all of that
19:00
together, I think. The most probably the the the
19:06
most important characteristic there.
19:08
Well, there are a couple, right? I don't want to, I don't want to
19:11
say that one is better than the other, but I think that in order
19:13
to have that sort of level, there needs to be a couple of
19:17
couple of different things that that are, you know, kind of non
19:21
negotiables, if you will, when it comes to that.
19:24
I think that's there needs to be a sense of there.
19:28
It has to be be and feel seamless, right?
19:32
It it it has to flow beautifully, has to flow
19:36
naturally and there can't be any start stops with it.
19:41
It it it should feel seamless. Great service feels seamless,
19:45
effortless, easy. There needs to be a a sense of
19:51
authenticity. I think is really important from
19:54
a service team. The there needs to be a genuine.
20:00
Kind of a genuine feel to what what connections you're making
20:06
with your guests. You just got to be on point,
20:09
right? Right.
20:10
You just got to be on point, so. So everything that you kind of
20:12
talked about is kind of big picture, big concepts.
20:17
But if you want to identify some tangible things like when you're
20:19
in the dining room and you're and you're walking through and
20:22
you're coaching your staff and you have your Hawkeye on to make
20:25
sure everything is correct. What are some of the things that
20:28
you're looking for when you're walking in the dining room?
20:31
I, I want to make sure that my team's having fun.
20:34
I I think if, if the team is having fun, if the team is
20:38
smiling, right, that that they're they're you're, you're
20:42
1/4 of the way there, right? In my opinion.
20:44
I think if you're most of the most of the other things I think
20:51
happen behind more behind the scenes.
20:53
I think with training, right, coaching, your mentoring, I
20:58
think those are all really big key factors in, in having a
21:02
strong team that you want to make sure that they're prepared
21:05
right. But I, I think in service in the
21:07
middle of of the big push, in the middle of the rush, you got
21:11
double sat, you know, you're, you need a, a wine pairing down
21:14
on this table. I, I think a, a, a smile that
21:20
will, will carry you a lot of the way there.
21:23
And I think if the team is happy, if the team is enjoying
21:25
themselves, if they're having fun at work, right in, in a, in
21:30
a responsible sense, right, then, then I think that that
21:35
you're, you're, you're 1/4 of the way there, right outside of
21:38
that, you know, making sure that they have what they need for
21:40
success, right? Having the tools that they need
21:43
that things are, you know, that light bulbs are working and
21:47
functional, that the music is, is, is going well, right?
21:50
Like all of those small little things.
21:52
But from, from service team, you know, I think a lot of it's a
21:57
lot of prep, prep heavy stuff, right?
22:00
You got to prepare behind the scenes in order to be successful
22:03
at Showtime so that when Showtime happens, it's seamless,
22:07
it's genuine, it's authentic and that the team has what they need
22:11
to be successful in their own point, right.
22:13
So I, I don't, I don't know that that necessarily answered your
22:16
question, but I think I'm thinking more like more theory
22:20
with that with that answer. Usually when you get someone
22:23
new. So let's say you get a new
22:24
service team member and you're and you're starting them.
22:26
Let's assume they're starting at zero.
22:27
Yeah. What and?
22:28
Which I, which I love by the way, you you were.
22:31
Talking about authenticity, yeah.
22:32
So when a new server starts and they're 21 years old and you say
22:37
be authentic and they don't even know who they are yet, right.
22:40
So that authenticity hasn't really kicked in.
22:43
How do you coach them to find that authentic voice within
22:46
themselves? What, what I like to do is I, I
22:52
like to get in conversation with that, with that, with that new
22:55
team member, right? I like to just off the cuff and
22:59
we're setting up and they, they've come in.
23:02
I'd like to, you know, just ask them how they're doing.
23:06
What do you like to do? What music do you listen to?
23:08
Do you want to pick the music that that's going on right now,
23:11
kind of open them up, get them a little bit comfortable?
23:13
I think when when you know it's it's already a stressful
23:16
situation. You're starting at a new job,
23:18
you don't really know what's happening.
23:20
You're in this restaurant XY all the other factors, right?
23:23
And then you compile life and what's going on in your
23:28
personal, personal life and it just can be a lot.
23:31
So I think disarming, disarming that making it, making a
23:34
connection with that team member, I think gets them to a
23:39
kind of comfortable spot, right? Finding out what they like,
23:42
finding out what they enjoy doing.
23:44
And then that consistent mentoring, right?
23:48
It's, it's, it's all about mentoring.
23:49
Crack a joke with them, let them know that that you know, they're
23:54
human, they're going to make mistakes.
23:55
That's OK. We just have to be ready to, to
23:59
learn from those mistakes, correct it, right?
24:01
Understand where that mistake, why that mistake happens.
24:06
And then let's move on, right? And like, it's, it's going to be
24:09
OK. It's, it's, it's not the end of
24:12
the world, right? You know, I always tell, I
24:14
always tell people tell staff members when they get to that
24:18
point of, of just being so nervous that they're that
24:21
they're frozen. It's like, you know, at the end
24:24
of the day, we're, we're just serving food and we're pouring
24:28
juice. That's all we're doing.
24:30
Yeah, right. That's it.
24:31
We're fermented. Juice.
24:32
Yeah, it's. Just it just happens to be
24:34
fermented. It just happens to be kind of
24:36
expensive. But when you boil things down,
24:38
we're just serving food. We're just serving juice.
24:43
Like we're telling a couple stories along the way.
24:44
Yeah. And we're making.
24:45
Them feel like they're at home, like make them feel comfortable.
24:47
Yeah. Don't make it.
24:48
Don't make it weird. Don't make it.
24:49
Weird. Don't make it.
24:50
Weird. Like that should be the mantra
24:52
of like at every, at every restaurant.
24:54
Like just don't. Don't fucking make it weird.
24:57
Just stop making things weird. From a guest standpoint, how do
25:05
you go about creating an environment when the guest walks
25:08
in that they feel welcome and that they feel like I'm in for a
25:13
great experience tonight? Like what are some of those
25:15
things that you put in place to make sure that that happens?
25:18
And what do you think some things that restaurants need to
25:21
do? Like what are some things that
25:22
so for the for the restaurant managers listening for the chefs
25:25
that are cure creating their restaurant programs right now,
25:28
What are some things that you think should be in those
25:29
restaurants to create that warm hospitable space?
25:33
Smile, right? That that's that's a smile is
25:39
one of those tools that is underutilized.
25:43
I think every every everyone wants to, you know, sometimes be
25:47
a little too serious and a little too.
25:49
I must I am a robot. Relax smile.
25:56
A nice warm, genuine smile works magic, right.
26:01
Eye contact is also a really big one.
26:03
I think you know, for instance, if, if, if, if you're walking
26:08
into, into a restaurant, there's nothing worse than, you know,
26:12
usually the first person you're coming into contact with is a
26:15
host of some sort, whether that's a host proper or
26:18
maitre-d' or the manager is stepping in for somebody.
26:22
But whoever's that person at your front door, he should be
26:26
able to smile. He should be able to make some
26:29
eye contact. They should have the wherewithal
26:31
to know that. Like if this is a reservation,
26:34
you know, if if, if you're working at a reservation only
26:37
sort of restaurant, you you most likely know the name of that
26:41
guest, right? You should be cued into that.
26:44
Like using someone's name without having them introduce
26:48
themselves is. Everyone loves hearing their
26:52
name. Everybody.
26:53
Loves that recognition and everybody will be immediately
26:59
upon the meal even before the meal even starts, right?
27:02
You use a name and get that name right, right that their minds
27:07
are blown one of the. Tactics that I teach people,
27:10
whether you're in a job interview or, you know, whenever
27:12
you meet someone for the first time, I would say try to use
27:14
their name twice within the first 60 seconds because no
27:18
sound is sweeter to an individual than their own name
27:21
usually, right. So I always tell them, shake
27:23
their hand, say their name, sit down, you know, Hey, Alex, good
27:26
to see you. Hey, Alex, do you mind if I have
27:28
a seat? So I've used it twice within the
27:29
first 60 seconds. And you'd be surprised how much.
27:34
I mean, you probably wouldn't be surprised you know this, but
27:36
people people are surprised at how big of a difference that
27:40
makes in someone liking you or not if you know their name and
27:42
you use their name 100%. Yeah, 100%.
27:45
It's another skill. Hey, I like it's, it's just
27:49
another skill. I'm always amazed someone
27:51
remembers, remembers my name from years ago.
27:55
And hey, yeah, we and it's just, it's an amazing thing.
27:59
It's an amazing underutilized tool.
28:01
Yeah. Yeah, I'd say so.
28:02
What are when, when you think about the dining experiences
28:05
that you've had, can you think of a time that you've received
28:10
exceptional service and what did that look like?
28:12
I've I've. Been fortunate I've had, I've
28:14
had really, I've had a lot of great meals in, in my life.
28:18
I think, you know, case in point, jumping, you know,
28:22
circling, kind of circling back a little bit to what we were
28:24
just talking about and bringing a full circle with name and
28:28
recognition and, and, and just that that sort of that little
28:34
bit of experience there, right? I was, we, my my wife and I were
28:41
going to per SE, and it was our first time there making, making
28:47
the, making the trip to to pay, you know, pay, pay our respects,
28:51
if you will go going to to Mecca, if you will, right.
28:55
And we, you know, at that time, I don't, there's not a lot of
29:00
places that, that there's not the, there's not a lot of places
29:06
now or, or people in the industry now that kind of do
29:09
this. But back then it was, it was
29:11
very common. If you were industry, you would
29:13
bring a case of beer, you know, a bottle of bourbon, a bottle of
29:18
champagne for the kitchen, for the staff to, you know, say
29:21
thank you, right. And so it was our first time
29:24
there. We were, we were coming from
29:27
Chicago, both working at Alinea. So we, we wanted a, we, we
29:33
wanted to, to continue that tradition, if you will.
29:36
And, and so we, you know, we were waiting, waiting for the
29:42
doors to open that percent. I think we had an early
29:45
reservation, one of one of the first ones and the door opens.
29:51
There's a couple of other people that are waiting with us in like
29:55
their little wait area in the front.
29:57
If you've ever been there and we were sitting down and one of the
30:01
hosts came straight and I mean, the first time I've seen this
30:05
person right. There was no kind of peeks
30:07
through the little glass to see who's just open the door opens.
30:12
They immediately walk over to us.
30:15
I don't know why us, but they were like Mr. and Misses
30:20
Gonzalez. We would love to welcome you
30:23
into the restaurant If you want to come and follow me.
30:25
That was the they knew who you. Were.
30:28
Immediately and I you know, I my, my, my, my jaw must have
30:34
been on the floor because I, I was like, how did you?
30:37
And I asked though, like, how did you just how did you know?
30:41
How did you do that? What, what please tell me like
30:46
teach me please. And I mean that that whole meal
30:50
was just amazing was great. You know, the, the, the
30:55
anticipatory service that was that that they gave us that
30:59
night. It's just otherworldly.
31:02
It was, it was really cool. And, and it all started with
31:05
just them using my name and, and, you know, taking it.
31:11
Maybe it was a stab in the dark and she got lucky, but yeah,
31:15
that it just started it, it started.
31:18
No, no, over here, yeah. I mean, over here I was like,
31:21
man, that's a that's a bold move, but it worked out and it
31:25
made a, it made a huge impression on me, right.
31:27
And it it's still to the state years later, I'm still just
31:32
like. And it's funny how.
31:33
Something like that, Like just recognizing it cost them
31:35
nothing. Nothing, nothing cost them
31:37
nothing. And you're telling the story on
31:39
a podcast that millions of people listen to millions, maybe
31:43
billions. I love no, but I I think about
31:49
one of the the best dining experiences I've had.
31:52
It's very similar because it cost them $0.25 and I was eating
31:56
Espiaggia in Chicago and I was with, there was four of us and
32:00
all of us are chefs and it's dessert course and we ordered
32:04
the ice cream sampler. There's like 4 little scoops of
32:06
ice cream on a really pretty glass tray or whatever.
32:09
And I don't remember what the flavor was on for, for the sake
32:12
of conversations Pistachio and we're all digging into the
32:14
pistachio and everyone's like that's so good and we're all
32:17
digging into the pistachio. We haven't even tried the other
32:19
three flavors on the on the sorbet sampler, on the ice cream
32:23
sampler. And as soon as we were done with
32:25
that one scoop, the server came around and said I noticed you,
32:29
you really enjoyed that pistachio.
32:30
I brought you another scoop and I'm thinking, how did the first
32:33
of all, it was fast. Like we couldn't even finish one
32:35
little scoop before they had already done it.
32:38
And our minds were blown because I was like, because we were
32:40
saying that's so good, that's so good.
32:41
That one's really good. What did that cost, $0.25 for
32:44
the ice cream scoop, if that. And I'm still telling the story
32:48
to the billions of listeners. Billions to.
32:50
The billions yeah, it's, yeah, it's it's I, I love, I love
32:54
those moments like, and I, I love, I look curating those
32:59
sorts of moments as well. Like it's so that those are
33:02
those that's when it gets really fun and really exciting when you
33:05
can hear something that a a guest or diner saying and you
33:12
have the means to be able to make something happen on the fly
33:15
like that, that I mean that it, it blows minds.
33:20
It just feels good, too. Like it just if it feels great
33:23
for me, it makes them happy. They get a memory, I get a
33:28
memory, I get my endorphin rush right and it's just you feel.
33:31
Important you feel special. Yeah, it, it's feel heard,
33:36
right? Like it's, it's just, you know,
33:38
and, and, and you've, you've then given all parties involved
33:43
in opportunity to like have a story to, to be able to tell on
33:46
a podcast where billions of people are watching billions.
33:51
Wizard behind the curtain for people that aren't at a place
33:56
where they could know your face when you walk in or put that
33:59
scoop of ice cream down before you even ask for it.
34:03
If you had to create a training program for your staff, what
34:06
would be like just, you know, really high level, what would be
34:09
the steps of service to like, OK, we're going to Google them.
34:12
We're going to look at their face.
34:13
We're going to know who they are.
34:14
Like what what are what is it a trick?
34:16
I don't want to say a trick, that's probably a bad word, but
34:19
what is something behind the scenes do that high end
34:21
restaurants do to that people don't realize that they do?
34:25
Exactly what you just said, Google, Google's a great tool,
34:31
Googling people. It's, it's, I think it's now
34:35
getting a little harder to to suss out who's who exactly.
34:39
But Google is a great tool that every, that I know of every
34:44
restaurant that I've worked at uses as a way to gather
34:49
information right. And and so far as to like image
34:53
search, you get a photo of them, you recognize them when they
34:57
come in, you know, you read as much as you can about them in in
35:02
the capacity that you have. You take your notes and then you
35:05
have, you know, four or five things that you have as talking
35:10
points for this guest. It can then you'll bring up
35:12
naturally in conversation and you there's your end and and
35:17
their their minds are blown. So do.
35:18
You have like a, you know, the reservation list and someone,
35:21
someone on staff is just Googling everyone, who they are,
35:23
what they do. Is there any special touches we
35:26
could get for them? Anything that we could find out
35:27
online? Basically, yeah.
35:29
Yeah, pretty pretty much. And then and then going over
35:31
there, you know their guest notes a lot, a lot of people
35:33
don't realize. Well, maybe they do now, because
35:35
it's all. Discussed in pre service like a
35:37
pre shift meeting of some sort. Oh yeah, yeah.
35:39
I mean a. Lot of I'm sure a lot of people
35:42
have figured this out now, but restaurants keep keep a history
35:47
on all their guests, right? Those that those that that at
35:51
least the good. Ones do right?
35:52
At least the good. Ones do they'll they'll keep a
35:54
little history. They'll they'll know your they
35:55
should know your likes or dislikes, your water
35:57
preferences. If you're left-handed.
35:59
right-handed. Yeah.
36:01
What, what wine? What?
36:02
What if you're left? Handed What do you do then?
36:04
There are. Different touches that you can
36:06
do there, right? If you notice someone's
36:07
left-handed or if you know that they are left-handed, you
36:10
automatically mark their mark, mark their silverware to their
36:13
to their dominant hand, right. When I when you know, certain
36:17
courses only have one piece of silverware that you need, right.
36:21
And so if you, if you have that sort of situation, you're
36:24
marking with to the correct side, you're moving water
36:27
glasses, wine glasses, you know, any service pieces that are 1
36:32
offs that are, you know, very direction specific with how to
36:38
how to set it down, orientate everything to the left for that
36:41
guest. But yeah, I mean, restaurants
36:43
should be keeping, should should be utilizing that tool to kind
36:47
of keep notes so that they can they can, you know, be prepared
36:52
for the next time hopefully that that guest can have you.
36:55
Ever melted anyone's brain? And what what I mean by that is
36:59
like, they came in and they're like, you're a fucking wizard.
37:02
How did you do that? Like the French Laundry store,
37:04
I'm sorry, the per SE story that you just shared, have you ever
37:07
had a moment in which I'm sure you have, but we're there like,
37:11
how did you do that? Explain that.
37:12
Like they're just in tears almost because of how impacted
37:17
they were by some sort of service gesture that you did.
37:20
Yeah. So.
37:21
Was in was working service tasting menu tasting menu
37:27
restaurant in service had these guests that were from from out
37:34
of town and they were just in for a finite amount of time.
37:39
They were talking about all the things that they've done so far
37:42
and all the things that they still have to do right.
37:45
And obviously they were going to this to to this particular
37:48
restaurant. They were they're very much into
37:51
food and, and enjoyed food and then travel for food.
37:54
Essentially they were talking about a hot dog and that they
38:01
still haven't gotten Chicago style hot dog and which in my
38:07
opinion is the best hot dog in the world.
38:10
Best kind of hot dog in the world Chicago style.
38:11
What, what what does the? Chicago hot dog, like, not
38:13
what's on it, but what kind does it like Nathan's, like the the
38:16
meat itself? Is there like a standard Chicago
38:19
hot dog? Has to be this in Vienna.
38:20
That's right, yeah. But they were talking about a
38:23
hot dog and you know, they were in the middle of their they were
38:27
in the middle of the their tasting menu is 8 or 9 courses.
38:31
I think doing the wine pairing is the whole thing And just
38:35
casually mentioning that like we haven't done a hot dog yet.
38:39
Like, Oh my God, like we got to put that on the list.
38:42
Something we have to do. So I I overheard it and got with
38:51
got with who my director of operations, who happened to be
38:54
in the restaurant as well that night, who was helping out with
38:57
service told him. And then between the two of us,
39:02
we Uber, we ubered. There were four top We ubered 4
39:09
hot dogs and fries, right. And I think yeah, I think she's
39:14
hot dogs, hot dogs and fries from Portillo's.
39:18
And we've snuck it yeah, we snuck snuck it in the kitchen,
39:23
downloaded the chef on on what was happening and we he
39:29
unwrapped them, cut them, plated them up on proper plates, the
39:32
whole thing, the whole 9 yards. And then we, we gave them an
39:36
extra course of hot dogs of the Chicago style hot dog.
39:39
And, and then we paired it with the coke, right.
39:42
We went out, got Cokes, put them in these, these kind of like
39:47
ceramic solo cups that we had. And we, we poured the pairing
39:53
for them. They were looking kind of weird,
39:55
like what what is this? Brought brought hot dogs down,
39:59
put them on the table, all plated up in front of the in
40:02
front of each desk and. Like they immediately were like
40:06
what the how did, what are you? This is crazy.
40:11
And they had a they had a good laugh over it.
40:14
We had a good laugh. Everyone was smiling and and
40:16
they were like that. I don't know how you guys just
40:19
did that, but it was amazing. So.
40:21
So David Breeder, who's chef at French longer, you know him, I
40:25
follow him on Instagram. And so today he posted, you
40:29
know, the guy from chef reactions that he does like side
40:32
by side videos of like critiquing someone making like
40:35
something terrible thought, oh, this can be terrible.
40:37
I don't I I might not have seen that guy, but I understand what
40:40
you're saying. So he.
40:41
Was at at French Laundry eating and I guess David, chef David
40:47
created like a seven layer dip, but like swan.
40:50
Yeah. And so it's funny.
40:52
So and his mind was blown. And so not only did he tag him
40:55
and then he tagged the original creator of the terrible seven
40:59
layer dip. Is it like they're all like, Oh
41:01
my God, you know, but but I, I, I see stuff like that and it's
41:05
like it's, it's those little things knowing that, like, wow,
41:08
that's a personal touch. One thing that I don't want to
41:13
say, we used to get into arguments or because we weren't
41:14
arguing. I agreed with you, I just didn't
41:16
have a solution. Is this happy birthday thing.
41:20
It's like there's nothing worse than a happy birthday plate.
41:22
Like it's someone's happy birthday, happy anniversary.
41:25
Let's just put chocolate on a on a white plate.
41:27
Happy on the happy anniversary, right.
41:29
It really pretty or whatever because I hate it too, but I'm
41:33
not a chef anymore so I don't got it.
41:35
I don't got to worry about it. But did you ever find a solution
41:38
for that? Like, what's What's the best way
41:40
to celebrate someone's happy birthday besides putting
41:42
chocolate on a plate, you know? What's the?
41:46
Better option chef. People, people love people love
41:51
a candle in their cakes. You know, they, they want, they
41:54
want, they want a show. They want a show and as and as
41:59
as dreadful as it is for us, sometimes that we, we have to,
42:03
you know, feel these requests of, you know, can you write
42:06
happy birthday on a plate? And it's, it's important to
42:11
people. It's important to some people
42:13
and, and, and that's their thing.
42:15
And you know, sometimes you got to just, you got to go.
42:20
Chocolate on a plate Swallow. It down and just go and.
42:23
Happy birthday on a plate. Happy.
42:24
Birthday. Or, you know, you know, if if
42:27
you're not willing to do the happy birthday, you got to find
42:29
another solution, right? And so whether that's a splash
42:32
of champagne, a cocktail from XYZ place, you know, whatever it
42:37
may be. But yeah, I have.
42:40
I haven't yet found a a great. There's there's not one out
42:43
there that you could point to and say, wow, that's a great
42:44
happy birthday thing. Like they, they figured it out.
42:47
I haven't been to a restaurant that's really figured out the
42:49
happy birthday thing. Besides the obvious card, happy
42:52
birthday on a plate candle, like besides the basics, Yeah, I
42:57
don't know if anyone and if they have it, hopefully they'll
42:59
comment in the on the podcast or send me Adm like what's the
43:02
solution? Yeah, please.
43:03
Do because I, I will I, I will tell you right now I if it's
43:06
good, I will steal it. I will claim it as my own, but I
43:10
will steal it and use it I'm. Going to I'm going to block you
43:14
and take your idea. No, no, no solution yet though.
43:20
But yeah, that's that's that's going to plague plague me, I
43:24
think for the time. Not just you, everybody like
43:27
it's, it's, it's no, I haven't seen a good solution.
43:29
Anyway, last question, the podcast is Chef's PSA.
43:37
If you had a Chef's PSA out there, but for service, this is
43:40
a two-part question for service. Like what is that one thing that
43:44
you want service team members to stop doing or start doing?
43:48
That's question part one and then question Part 2.
43:53
Chefs and and managers sometimes don't see eye to eye.
43:57
If you could improve the relationship between manager and
43:59
chef, service team, manager and chef, what would that PSA be?
44:03
I I don't know that I have you don't have one of those.
44:05
Pet peeves. It's like when you see it, it
44:07
like drives you crazy. I mean I.
44:09
I bet yes I do have them, but that's what I want.
44:11
That's what I'm asking and and I I tried, I tried to sound
44:14
sophisticated asking, but that's what I'm asking and anyone.
44:16
Who's worked with me? Will.
44:17
Will, will tell you. Yeah.
44:18
He's he's got some pet peeves for sure.
44:20
Yeah. What is it?
44:23
Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's been a it's been a little
44:27
bit since I've had to work a work a dining room.
44:29
So I don't, I don't, I don't quite know.
44:34
No I-11 that I one that I will say that that is a that is a bit
44:39
of a peeve. The, the long, the long winded,
44:44
the long winded, you know, four minute, 4 minute description of
44:49
a of course, the, the long windedness of anything, right?
44:53
Whether it's a greet or a description or, you know, being
44:58
able to read, being able to read the table, right.
45:02
There's nothing, there's nothing worse.
45:07
I think in, in for me when I go somewhere and it might be my
45:12
first time. And they ask, is it your first
45:15
time with us? And I say yes, and well, let me
45:19
tell you about our menu. We have food.
45:21
And then? And they then they, then they
45:24
list and talk about every single thing on the menu line by line.
45:31
And you're just like my skin is starting to I just like, you
45:36
know, I, I can, I can, you can figure it out.
45:40
I've been to a restaurant before, maybe.
45:42
Yeah, like I've never been here, but I've.
45:44
I've eaten food and I've been to restaurants.
45:45
Yeah, unless. Something's super unique, right?
45:48
And something, you know, you you're doing something
45:50
completely different with like the ordering process or
45:53
something then like, sure, yeah, please tell me.
45:55
But like, you don't need it. You don't need to tell me that
45:57
the fries are made of potatoes. I, I got that one and one thing
46:06
that that that I would love to, to see more of from front of
46:11
house from front of house. And is, is, is or what maybe one
46:17
piece of advice that I can give is to be hungry, be hungry, be
46:23
be hungry for more knowledge, be hungry to be better, be hungry
46:28
to be more efficient to dial things in a little bit more.
46:33
Always push for that, for that extra, you know, too often I see
46:38
people that are, that are content, they're good at what
46:43
they do. But they there's, you know,
46:45
they're, they're content and there's a, there's definitely a,
46:49
a plateau. Yeah.
46:51
I urge people to to keep, keep looking for more, keep striving
46:56
for more, keep striving to be better, faster, what whatever,
46:59
whatever it is that you need to work on, but have that hunger.
47:04
It's it's super important. You know, you, you, you have
47:06
that hunger that can that can take you a a long way.
47:10
And I think it's super important one of.
47:13
You know, if I'm going to take this opportunity because I don't
47:15
often talk about in the podcast, my pet peeve in a dining
47:18
experience is for me, there's nothing worse than when you're
47:22
eating and the food is coming to the table and the server has
47:27
their hands full, but they haven't made space on the table
47:30
yet to put the food down. And they're like, can you?
47:34
And you're like, yeah, sure, let me, let me rearrange and make
47:37
space for you. So now you're nice and
47:38
comfortable. It's like, and it's awkward,
47:39
like I don't want to be, I don't want to be a jerk.
47:41
It's not an inconvenience. I just think like, it's just,
47:45
it's the mark to me of a good Polish server that they've
47:49
anticipated that they're about to bring out the food.
47:51
Space has been made, silverware's been dropped,
47:54
table's been marked. Now the food has a place to be,
47:58
to be SAT. That's my pet peeve when I, when
48:00
I'm out eating is I, I hate to have to rearrange the table for
48:04
all the food that's coming. Sure.
48:05
Yeah. Yeah.
48:07
Last, last question. So the other part to this was
48:10
how can the relationship between chef and and service manager,
48:15
general manager, how can that improve?
48:17
And they're not all bad. Like I, I think when we work
48:20
together, I thought we had a great relationship.
48:22
I, I loved working with you. I would work with you again if I
48:25
had a restaurant, which I don't and I don't want one, but if I
48:27
did and I wanted one, you'd be the first call I'd make.
48:32
Literally you would be the first call I'd make.
48:35
So if investors are listening, that would be who I would call.
48:41
But I've also worked with a lot of a lot of people that's like,
48:45
I can't work with them and we don't get along.
48:47
And I know I'm sure you've done the same.
48:51
How do you, how do you build the relationship?
48:53
Like what is it that chefs don't understand about your role that
48:57
would help us all come together better?
49:01
I don't know that it's necessarily a thing that they
49:03
don't understand about the front of house aspect.
49:07
I, you know, I, again, I've been super fortunate where yeah,
49:11
I've, I've worked in, I've worked in really great play
49:14
places. And yeah, the, the, the chefs at
49:18
those places knew, yeah, they're well informed on, on what, on
49:23
what happens in, in the dining room.
49:26
I, you know, for me, I, I think it's finding that commonality.
49:30
I, I think that that's really important, right?
49:32
And I think that if you find common ground with someone, then
49:37
the, the, the guard is let go a little bit, right?
49:40
The, the ego and the, the big bravado.
49:43
And this is, this is mine. And you do you.
49:45
And I'll do this. And I think that that goes away,
49:50
right, If you you can find some commonality and and and and find
49:56
traction, right? We.
49:57
We we both want to win. We're both on the same team,
49:59
yeah. Yeah, it's, it's understanding
50:01
that it's a, this is a, a restaurant is a team sport,
50:05
right? Yeah, everybody on the team has
50:07
to play nice, right? And we, we all, we're all, we're
50:10
all going for the same thing. And just understanding that I
50:14
think really goes a long way. Communicating, actually
50:18
communicating, like actually talking to each other, finding
50:21
some time, you know, with, with, you know, everybody's busy in a
50:25
restaurant, the chef in the gym, super busy all the time.
50:29
But carving out some time, carving out some space to just
50:33
whether that's three minutes, 4 minutes, 5 minutes, however long
50:37
you can do just to catch up. Hey, how was your weekend?
50:41
How's how was the rest of the night last night?
50:43
How, you know, whatever it may be, How was how's I know that
50:46
you had this thing going on with, you know, whoever how's
50:49
that all pan out? Just have a conversation.
50:51
Think a lot of that mitigates some of the some of the the the
50:56
tension in the push and pull between between front and back,
51:00
right. You're all one team.
51:01
Yeah. Now it's great and, and I will
51:03
say that, you know, the time that that you and I worked here,
51:06
I don't know how long we worked there for a few years and in
51:09
Garrison and the chefs that were in Garrison.
51:11
So Jason Purcells, the the chef de cuisine at the time, and you
51:15
know, Atticus, who was also in there and Jordan, who's
51:18
phenomenal. And I, I, I could look back
51:20
fondly on that time and say that was, you know, some of the we
51:24
were doing good things and man, it's always good to see you.
51:28
And where can people find you? They want.
51:31
To find you for the art or if they just want to follow you to
51:33
to, to see the story, Yeah. The the art I have in Instagram
51:42
which is eluding me at the moment.
51:45
Alexander dot. Art Alexander Gonzalez under
51:48
score Art Maybe dot. Art maybe.
51:51
Yeah. Alexander Gonzalez dot art.
51:52
I'll figure it out. I'll put, I'll put in the.
51:54
I'll put in the show. I'll put in the link.
51:55
Yeah, the a. Link in the bio?
51:57
Yeah, I'll put it in. Somewhere.
51:59
Yeah, but yeah, Instagram and yeah, that I mean, and in
52:05
Chicago, yeah. And I'm based in Chicago, so I'm
52:08
there. Hopefully, hopefully we we can
52:11
run into each other and yeah man, I need to.
52:13
Come see you. Yeah.
52:14
Yeah. James Beard, right?
52:15
Yeah, I think that happened already.
52:17
Yeah, that's going on. All right, man.
52:20
Good seeing you. Good seeing you.
52:21
Brother, well, I hope you. Enjoyed that episode with Alex.
52:23
If you want to go follow him, I'll put his Instagram in the
52:26
show notes. If you want to support the show,
52:28
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52:36
If you want to get the new book Bad Cooks Everywhere, go to
52:38
chefspsa.com. You get that book as well as all
52:41
the other books that I've written.
52:42
Also, Culinary Leadership Fundamentals audiobook is now
52:45
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52:48
It's now available. You do go download it now on
52:49
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52:54
See you next week. Hit the porno music.