Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Cold Case: Missing baby Lisa Irwin

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Cold Case: Missing baby Lisa Irwin · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: What happened to little baby Lisa Irwin. She's the chemical
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: who simply vanished five years ago. Jeremy Irwin returns home
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: from work around four in the morning. The front door
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: is unlocked. His daughter is missing from her crib. Aroun
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the house of screaming words. He said, golo golo one.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: They think she was kidnapped then sold. This was not
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: a one person. There's still a one hundred thousand dollar
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: reward in the case. This is crime stories. But Nancy Grace,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Lisa's crib is still in her bedroom. It's packed with
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: all the presents for the birthdays and the holidays that
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: she has missed. My gut tells me that she's still
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: in this country. My gut tells me that whoever has
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: her is taking good care of her. They went through
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: an awful lot of trouble to get her, and that
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: she will come home every night. Before Jeremy Irwin goes
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: to sleep, he looks at a photo of his little
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: baby girl, Lisa. It's some treasured photo. He tells the
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: photo good night, and he gives her a kiss through
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a picture frame. Lisa Irwin was just ten months old
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: when she disappeared from her own crib. According to reports,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: her parents say they believe she's still alive. Where is
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: baby Lisa? This is crime Stories. I Nancy Grace, and
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. Lisa
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: goes missing October from her own crib, just a few
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: weeks before her first birthday. Kansas City, Missouri Now police
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: say they don't know what to believe or who to believe,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and they insist it's hard to say that nobody, that
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: somebody is not a suspect when you don't have any suspects.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: That's a quote from the Kansas City Police Major Steve Young.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: He says, truly, there is no one that is or
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: is not a suspect. I guess that translation to that
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: is everybody's a suspect and nobody's a suspect. It all
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: starts the night of October three. Lisa's dad, Jeremy was
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: working the late shifts. He's an electrical contractor, and I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: can verify that he was at work because we have
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: confirmed that he was working that night and the baby
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: was seen alive. After dad Jeremy Irwin, goes to work,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: the mom, Deborah Bradley, is at home with ten month
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: old Lisa baby Lisa and the two older brothers. Now
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: she Deborah admits she spends the evening drinking wine outside
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: on the front porch. I believe with a friend. She
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: first tells police she puts the baby to bed around
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: ten thirty, but her story rechanged. But before you judge
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: her for changing her story, which is something I always
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: do if somebody changes their story, because the truth really
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: shouldn't change. Before we go further, I want to thank
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: our sponsors, Simply Safe for making our podcast today possible.
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• 3:43
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• 3:46
  Speaker 1: or anything dear to you, it makes all the sense
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: in the world. So thank you, Simply Safe. Alan Doke
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: investigative reporters with me. Alan, It's my experience from trying
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: so many cases, interviewing in direct and cross examining so
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: many witnesses and then guests that if your story becomes
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: embellished or you add facts, I don't find that a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: problem because maybe you haven't been asked the right question, okay,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: But if you change facts, that's a problem. She initially
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: thought that she put her to bed about ten forty,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: but she really can't remember if she did, and it
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: might have been six forty. That's a four hour difference.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: And in that four hours, she was out, as you said,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: out front, drinking wine with the neighbor. The neighbor confirms
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that she was there, So before we judge her for
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: her account changing she was drinking wine, she changed her
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: story and later said she may have consumed enough alcohol
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: to blackout or at least not recall the exact time
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: she put her daughter to bed. So that's a problem.
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  Speaker 1: But just because she got a snoot full does not
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: mean she had anything to do with the baby's disappearance.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: It doesn't look good. I can tell you that much,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: that you're basically drunk enough to pass out while you're
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: supposed to be taking care of the children. But again,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: that does not a kidnapper or murderer make Now we
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: know that Jeremy comes home Alan after three am October four,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: and he found the front door was unlocked, the lights
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: were on inside, and baby Lisa was gone. Now the
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: couple go bazart, of course. They searched inside and outside.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: He discovered a pushed in window screen at the front
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: of the home. He also found their cell phones missing
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: from the charger spot on the kitchen counter. Now that's
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: a lead, right, their phones were missing. Somebody took their phones.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Allan then this was in two thousand and eleven. You
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: had smartphones then that you could trace and pin and everything.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I have we ever heard of the police found with that, Well,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I know that it was promising to start with it.
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  Speaker 1: They could trace the call from one of the missing phones,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: but nothing ever emerged that helped them enough to make
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: an arrest. Now, there have been a transient in the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: area and they arrested him briefly, but it didn't pan out.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: They also investigative reports a man on foot was seen
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: nearby carrying an infant in the early morning cold, but
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: that didn't pan out as well. Neither of those seemingly
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: significant leads cracked the case, and eyewitnesses they failed to
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: agree on an I D it just goes on and on.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: It seems like it was snap from the get go. Now,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: one of the missing phones, there was a phone call
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: on it to the ex girlfriend of a person of interest.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: To me, that's significant, but no arrest was ever made.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you've got the phone, maybe it's because
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: they can't prove who had the phone or who made
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: that phone call. To me, that's a very significant lead. Right.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: So what we do know is that baby Lisa is missing,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: and she is beautiful. It's just hard to take in
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: that nobody heard or saw anything. And the fact that
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: one of the screens on the front porch was pushed in.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Was it pushed in that night? Was it pushed in
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: so that somebody could get into it? Was that window
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: unlocked or open? The father still believes she's alive Alan.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: He was quoted recently as saying, when we do get
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: her back, she's not going to even know me, She's
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: not going to know any of us and her brothers.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: That was the mom saying that she's not going to
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: know Jeremy, her dad. I mean, they really seem to
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: believe she's still alive, Alan, I mean, is that legitimate
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: or not? They're not giving up. You know, this is
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: one of those cases where we see that the family
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: spends a lot of money hiring a private investigator. Psychic
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: comes in. That kind of thing, the typical thing that
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I guess after a year or two years three, as
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: you start grasping at straws, I find it. We were
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: talking about the mom and her story changing. She actually
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: took a lie detector test, a polygraph test, and the
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: police we're taking her very seriously as as a potential
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: person of interest. After the polygraph test, they told her
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: that she failed. They said, you did it, you did it,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: and you failed the test. Well, she didn't fail the test,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: but that was a police tactic and they were trying
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: to get her to confess, making her think she failed
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the test, which she didn't. But then she even passed
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: that test. If you will, hey, don't start about her
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: how unfair that is, because there's nothing prostitute that says
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: you can't trick up her. I didn't say that was
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: she doesn't think it's unfair. Have you ever seen where
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: I love? When they do this, police send out notices
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: to felons or wrong doers that have jumped to bail
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  Speaker 1: or they can't find them that they've won a prize
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: of some sort and give them a location to come
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: pick up the prize. They show up in hordes, and
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: then they arrest them. All that's a trick and there's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong with it. Now, you can't beat a defendant.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: You can't you can't force them to give you a statement.
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  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things you cannot do. You can't
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  Speaker 1: make them testify a trial. They have to have a
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: lawyer if they want one, whether they can afford one
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  Speaker 1: or not. They have a right to cross examine and
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  Speaker 1: confront witnesses against them, the right to appular case if
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: they are in fact convicted. There are many many rights
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: under the constitution. The right not to be tricked it's
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: not one of them. So the mom Deborrah, takes a polygraph.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: They tell her she flunks and try to get her
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  Speaker 1: to confess. She won't confess. As it turns out, she
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: passes the polygraph and she refuses to confess to me
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  Speaker 1: passing up. When I first heard this and I heard
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the mom changed her story and her alibi was that
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: she was one on the front porch, has not all
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: that impressed with her. And of course, when you're trying
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: to locate a suspect, you look at the family first,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: so I was really looking at her since sibling homicide
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: is so rare, soora side or fair aside? Which is
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: brother or sister homicide? Now, remember Alan, the fact that
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: she passed the polygraph is coming from her. Okay. She
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: says that she was told she failed the polygraph, but
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: really passed it. I don't recall the police ever saying that. Yeah,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that's what she is quoted as saying in a media interview,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: that she passed and then was tricked. Well, let's let's
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: go with that, because she has stated this, and I
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: recall that distinctly when she was question and she told
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: that to Casey TV News five, I remember it very well.
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  Speaker 1: So let's go with that premise that it was a
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: trick by police. They gave her a Polly told her
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: she film when she really passed, and that she doesn't
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't hold a grudge against the police for doing that
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: because she understands it. Says that although I gotta tell you,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: stranger abductions are very very rare. It's just a handful
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: of cases where infants are actually abducted by strangers. That
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that's very odd, but not unheard of. The father has
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: an airtight alibi. He was gone after she was spotted alive,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: So that leaves the mom. But when she passed that polygraph, Alan,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that really changed things for me when Baby Lisa's mom
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  Speaker 1: passed the polygraph, because it's kind of hard to trick
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  Speaker 1: a polygraph. You know that, right, I've taken them before.
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  Speaker 1: Did you pass? Yes, spectacularly I passed. Okay. You know what,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a pass fail, Alan, Okay. It's like
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: when you take an exam at school, pass fail. So
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: when you say you passed spectacularly, you passed, okay, just
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: leave it and that don't make me shame you. So
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the mom passes a Polly. Yes they can be tricked,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: but it's not that easy. So to me, that changed
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the scenario when I found out the mom passed to
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Polly and they didn't crack or she didn't break down
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and confess when they tried to trick her. So where
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: does that leave us? I think one of the really
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: interesting developments in this case is something that I actually
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: wrote about back in and people who may not be
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: familiar with this this child's case may remember when in
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I believe it was there was word that she had
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: been found in Greece. Remember that, I remember that was bizarre. Yeah,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: And what's so awful about it is it gets the
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: families hopes up and then they are dashed. Listen to this.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Did you know that her bedroom, Baby Lucy's bedroom is
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: filled with wrapped gifts that mark every birthday and every
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Christmas us In holiday. The two little boys and I'm
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: not going to say their names, are growing up. They
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: thought of moving to a different school district and away
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: from the house. At least it disappeared, but the mom
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: still has the hope at least it will come back.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: They say they can't make up for the time that
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: was taken away, but if she comes home, they can
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: spend the rest of her life getting to know her
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: and making her life better. It just makes me think
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: of the twins Allan and what this family must have
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: gone through, and the guilt this mom must feel to think, Wow,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: why did I have a glass of wine or fibe
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: glasses of wine or whatever it was? And you know,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: because you has caused survivors and guilt and you feel
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: like why why not me instead of her? What did
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I do wrong? And I have changed things and just
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: thinking of them, wrapping those gifts and leaving them in
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: her room, just waiting for the day that she might
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: come back. Just it's just heartbreaking to go through your
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: life dreaming of them one day of her one day
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: coming home. Tipline is one eight hundred the loss. There
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: is a reward. There is a reward for information regarding
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: the disappearance of baby Lisa Irwin. Not only a reward, Nancy,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: but a hundred thousand dollar reward. You know a lot
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: of times we see nine thousand, ten thousand, fifteen thousand,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: but a wealthy anonymous donor has offered one hundred thousand
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: dollars for the safe return of Lisa Irwin. Again, thank
• 14:51
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• 15:26
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• 15:30
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• 15:35
  Speaker 1: crime online dot com, where we have a tip line
• 15:39
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• 15:44
  Speaker 1: nine O nine four nine Crime nine O nine four
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: nine Crime c R I M E for any information
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: on the disappearance of Little Lisa Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,