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Ask Anyway: How One Woman Built Life on Her Own Terms · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

• 0:05
  Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violence.
• 0:07
  Mary: I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
• 0:13
  Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
• 0:20
  Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness, what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
• 0:29
  Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature and flourish.
• 0:34
  Mary: Let's dive in.
• 0:35
  Mary: Hi and welcome to the show.
• 0:41
  Mary: Often, my guests are women that I know personally and that have compelling stories that inspire me to want to share these women with you.
• 0:48
  Mary: As is often a topic here, women have unique pressures to live a certain type of way, to settle down, have kids, and way too often, subliminal scripts sometimes cultural, sometimes gender-based set women up as competitors while at the same time putting pressure on them to smile and be nice.
• 1:09
  Mary: My guest today seems to have stepped out of that lane with those society-informed guardrails, and she lives based on what makes her feel more fulfilled.
• 1:19
  Mary: However, as with most of us, she had to find a way to tell her own unique story, and that usually means making hard choices and learning tough lessons.
• 1:30
  Mary: So, of course, I wanted to share some of her unique story with you.
• 1:35
  Mary: Her name is Nicole Wahby and I met her through an improv class.
• 1:39
  Mary: Yeah, it's a thing I started doing with my husband in January.
• 1:43
  Mary: Not something on my bucket list, but I signed us up together as a surprise for him and, wow, what an unexpectedly mind-opening experience.
• 1:52
  Mary: Anyway, from the first class, I recognized Nicole's energy a very positive aspect of a fellow improver.
• 2:01
  Mary: The interesting thing about improv at least in our level one class is that the only thing you really know about your classmates is their first name.
• 2:09
  Mary: It makes everyone feel like we're starting from the same point.
• 2:13
  Mary: We're just trying to learn to create interesting and funny scenes and support each other on stage.
• 2:18
  Mary: As we moved through the class and had moments to talk more personally, I recognized that Nicole has had some unique family relationships and career situations that have shaped her.
• 2:29
  Mary: That's really the essence of us.
• 2:31
  Mary: We are shaped by nature and our environments and really we all have unique stories.
• 2:37
  Mary: Although the themes of her life could yield so many cool and interesting discussions, today we're going to talk about her experiences with setting boundaries in all areas of her life, with family, other women, men and just generally taking up her space in life in a way that allows her to feel fulfilled and empowered.
• 2:58
  Mary: Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, nicole.
• 3:02
  Nicole: Thank you, Mary.
• 3:03
  Nicole: Thank you so much for having me today.
• 3:04
  Nicole: I'm very excited to be here.
• 3:06
  Nicole: I hope I don't cry with excitement and joy but I don't know, until I get so excited that I just burst into tears.
• 3:15
  Mary: Okay, well, crying is totally acceptable, and I'm really excited to talk to you because we're certainly going to, I think, touch on things that we have not even discussed personally when we're hanging out in improv class.
• 3:30
  Mary: So, first of all, the thing that I find so fascinating one as well as I think other people in your family have pretty traditional ideas about women, marriage and kids.
• 3:50
  Nicole: right, oh, yes, yeah, we, it was really cute.
• 3:56
  Nicole: We I had to take your father to work day a few weeks ago to get him out and, you know, into life.
• 4:04
  Nicole: And now that he's retired and we had a great conversation in the car where he goes, babe, you know, I thought we were having a good day, but he just blurts out, babe, I, I just need to see you married with with children.
• 4:19
  Nicole: And I said, excuse me, we've had this conversation and he goes yeah, but you're not going to be happy and I'm not going to be happy until I see you married with children.
• 4:29
  Nicole: And I said, dad, I'm surrounded by children.
• 4:33
  Nicole: What do you mean?
• 4:33
  Nicole: Like our family's so big, he's one of nine, my mother's one of nine, I think there are like all but 70 cousins between us with just as many children.
• 4:43
  Nicole: I have friends that have made me a godmother of eight children, my brothers have kids, and so for my father to still be on me at this age in life, like, oh, I need to see you married with children.
• 4:57
  Nicole: And I looked at him and I said, dad, but you don't think I have kids in my life already?
• 5:02
  Nicole: He's like, yeah, but you don't.
• 5:04
  Nicole: You know he goes, there are other people who need their own.
• 5:07
  Nicole: And I said, well, are you happy, you know, with, with your marriage and life?
• 5:11
  Nicole: And he goes, that doesn't matter.
• 5:12
  Nicole: And I thought, well, it does to me and I that's more important to me, and I'm happy where I stand now with the kids I do have in my life.
• 5:21
  Nicole: And I just couldn't.
• 5:23
  Nicole: I thought it was even funnier when, as we were driving in the car having this conversation, and he's telling me you know, happiness doesn't matter in marriage as long as you get a kid out of it.
• 5:35
  Nicole: And then we go to my brother's house and we're sitting there in his living room and there's two guys about my age that walk up to the door, ring the doorbell.
• 5:51
  Nicole: My father looks at me and I look at my brother and my brother gets up to answer the door and I look at my father and say, what about one of those guys?
• 5:55
  Nicole: Any one of them will do right.
• 5:57
  Nicole: Well, of course.
• 5:57
  Mary: I've never met your dad, but he sounds like quite a piece of work and so you know you.
• 6:03
  Mary: You sort of had shared with me that his little quote about you know happiness not mattering, and you really strike me as someone who kind of grabs joy.
• 6:14
  Mary: And you know, for a little peek behind the curtain, you're actually taking two level, two improv, so I get to have class with you again, but you're doubling your effort, which is so cool.
• 6:25
  Mary: So you had shared something kind of about your career path and so I'm going to jump to that right now because I think that's really interesting, because I think that so you have your own business and you can talk about that in a minute.
• 6:40
  Mary: But I love how the path that you took to get there, and I think one of the things that is hard for a lot of people and this is men and women is when we think about career focusing more on feeling fulfilled than this need to make a certain amount of money.
• 6:57
  Mary: There's a lot of social script stuff around.
• 7:00
  Mary: You have to make money to be successful.
• 7:02
  Mary: So talk a little about what your path was to where you are today.
• 7:06
  Nicole: Yeah, I never knew.
• 7:08
  Nicole: Growing up as a child, I really thought I was going to be a teacher or a veterinarian, because I loved just the idea of a classroom, people coming together and teaching them something.
• 7:19
  Nicole: I love the idea of taking care of animals and I thought that's what it's going to do.
• 7:24
  Nicole: And then, as life grew and went on, I and mostly growing up in a primarily miserable family what opened my eyes was when I was like 16 and I went to a club under age, was when I was like 16 and I went to a club under age and it was this little rave and I, just I filled up with joy and my life purpose was clear that I was meant to party and be a part of, you know, an event celebrating life.
• 7:59
  Nicole: And again, growing up with primarily miserable people, I got a taste of like utter joy and my mission was clear that I need to work hard to bring people together to celebrate and dance.
• 8:13
  Nicole: And from there I was 17.
• 8:16
  Nicole: I produced my first music event by 19,.
• 8:19
  Nicole: I produced, like I think, two or three more.
• 8:23
  Nicole: And then I went to college and, uh, and I was always working like as a server.
• 8:29
  Nicole: I worked for my aunt's cleaning business.
• 8:32
  Nicole: I was always.
• 8:32
  Nicole: I was always operating as a personal assistant, also to the people that I would just do everything for them and organize their home and walk their dog.
• 8:41
  Nicole: I'd help at their dinner parties.
• 8:43
  Nicole: I was just always hustling and working, working.
• 8:46
  Nicole: But the goal was always so I could produce an event to invite people out to celebrate, to relieve themselves of the mundane lives that they lived, and they could be happy.
• 8:57
  Nicole: And that's really how my career started was I was striving to bring people together by creating an experience to bring them joy.
• 9:07
  Nicole: And by the time I was in college and getting out of college, I started combining my love of art and music and created this show called Art in the Dark and by then I could invite my family with their kids, my clients and their kids so it was an all age show and have this immersive art and music experience.
• 9:28
  Nicole: And people really lit up over it and they're like, wow, if you could do that, what other events can you do?
• 9:34
  Nicole: And that's when I it was like 2015 where I started NSW events and I was like, yeah, I am an event planner, that's what I love to do, that's my job, because up until then, I just was just grinding to produce these events and then knowing that I could actually hold that title and learn that that job exists and you can get paid for it, then, yeah, the money came after it and you learn a lot of lessons along the way how to charge properly and what to do, what not to do.
• 10:05
  Nicole: You know setting boundaries along the way, but that's ultimately how my career started and is the path that it's continuing in.
• 10:15
  Mary: You know, that's so inspiring because you make it so clear that you had an experience.
• 10:22
  Mary: You felt that, and I call things your essential nature, Like it obviously connected with your essential nature of loving the idea of people coming together, people being happy.
• 10:37
  Mary: You know, I have this image of you at 16, like dancing at a rave.
• 10:42
  Mary: I can easily see that, believe it or not, Nicole.
• 10:45
  Mary: So I love that image that comes to mind.
• 10:49
  Mary: But I think one of the things that's beautiful about that is you didn't deny it, Like you identified it.
• 10:57
  Mary: You continue to build more of it into your life in various ways and your path started to become clear, which that's where I think people maybe back off, Like they feel like well, this feels so good, it can't be what I'm supposed to do.
• 11:15
  Mary: But I'm also wondering like did you?
• 11:17
  Mary: Were there people along the way?
• 11:19
  Mary: Because I think you majored in art in college.
• 11:22
  Nicole: Yeah, I took liberal, I majored in liberal arts, visual arts, and then I subbed in biology and, quite honestly, I hated getting graded for my artwork and every you know.
• 11:34
  Nicole: You take these classes at different levels and they give you parameters that you have to produce your final show and I was always good at working around those parameters to elevate my final projects, which then encouraged the other students and it's just, it's just looking back, you know where I am now?
• 11:53
  Nicole: Then it's, I am a show builder, yeah, and that's, and it's just one of those things I was like oh yeah, I did go to college for this, but college didn't teach me what I know today.
• 12:08
  Mary: Yeah, life did Right and I think following following that.
• 12:11
  Mary: So you mentioned something that, of course, with my career in mental health, you know it perked my ears up.
• 12:19
  Mary: You talked about coming from a family that you felt was like pretty much not happy, not a lot of joy.
• 12:26
  Mary: How do you think you were able to step out of that?
• 12:30
  Nicole: Oh my heaven, I just inherently woke up happy every day and couldn't understand why they would fight and be miserable.
• 12:38
  Nicole: And I just noticed that they didn't know how to receive love or give love.
• 12:43
  Nicole: They didn't know how to receive love or give love.
• 12:47
  Nicole: How I stepped out of it was just not embracing their mannerisms and being true to myself.
• 12:50
  Nicole: And I will say, the pandemic, uh, specifically really shone the light on me, having to not only step aside but just step away from them, um, cause they're just miserable people.
• 13:08
  Nicole: I was like, no matter how much joy you know, I fought for years, for for decades, trying to bring this family up to my level of joy and I just I realized at some point that they were never gonna match my excitement, they were never gonna appreciate the ideas I wanted to share with them.
• 13:28
  Nicole: Um, if I said, hey, I want to go to this concert, do you want to join me?
• 13:33
  Nicole: It was always like, oh, why, that's dumb music.
• 13:36
  Nicole: But if they had an idea to go to a concert, well then it was the best damn thing and everybody could go.
• 13:43
  Nicole: Okay, I remember organizing an annual event when my uncle passed away.
• 13:50
  Nicole: I was like, well, I want to bring us together.
• 13:52
  Nicole: I always wanted to bring us together and I always thought that by lead by example, they'll come around.
• 13:59
  Nicole: And I remember I did this event every year and everyone was invited and it's such a big family that I had to rent a school bus to fit all 40 of us and I paid for it 100%.
• 14:10
  Nicole: That was my.
• 14:12
  Nicole: I said it was the birthday, christmas gift, everything, because we're too big and obnoxious to buy gifts for every occasion for each other.
• 14:19
  Nicole: And so we were sitting there at the table one day and I remember my one cousin goes.
• 14:25
  Nicole: You know, I would just love if we could all do something together in the same context of us talking about my snow tubing trip, and I just looked and I said, really Well, that's what this trip's about.
• 14:37
  Nicole: And he's like, yeah, but I mean something, something else.
• 14:40
  Nicole: And I was like can't you just acknowledge that this is cool and I am doing something to bring us together, because no one else has taken initiative?
• 14:46
  Nicole: And it was again just like at that time.
• 14:50
  Nicole: It was another kind of a mile marker of I should really step away from these people.
• 14:56
  Nicole: They're not.
• 14:56
  Nicole: They're not matching my energy, they're not appreciating what I'm doing.
• 15:00
  Nicole: And it was just, you know, after like the third strike, so to speak, when the pandemic came around.
• 15:07
  Nicole: I was like I just got to guard myself and I've got to step away and I'm not going to make the impression on them that I've been striving for all these years.
• 15:16
  Nicole: And when I realized that my life just opened up tremendously.
• 15:23
  Mary: Yeah, I think it's funny that sometimes, when we talk about boundaries, I think people tend to hear that word as something that's limiting, but what it does is, I think it you talked about matching your energy.
• 15:36
  Mary: I think it puts the things aside that pull you down, that really do close up your life, and it allows you to find empowerment and it opens you up to doing what you really think makes you happy Totally totally.
• 15:53
  Nicole: I mean I met you in improv class because I find I'm a bit of a comic.
• 15:58
  Mary: She's very good at it, people, by the way.
• 16:02
  Nicole: Well, thank you.
• 16:02
  Nicole: And it's like that banter, that release that I have in improv, that's where I'm like, I feel like my natural self.
• 16:11
  Nicole: Anything goes I can say, you know, I can interrupt people to get a laugh, you know, but I'm not interrupting to be offensive.
• 16:18
  Nicole: And you know, it's like I could never have that banter with the people I grew up with and I could never celebrate my life, my accomplishments, what I was doing with them, because my banter was just offensive to them.
• 16:33
  Nicole: Like anything I said, anything I do, and I was like man.
• 16:35
  Nicole: Like anything I said, anything I do, and I was like man.
• 16:37
  Nicole: You know, I just I don't feel like I could be myself, you know.
• 16:40
  Nicole: And again, circling back to joining improv and everything, I'm like, yeah, this is who I am, this is who I'm supposed to be, this is what I'm supposed to be doing, and it just constantly confirms how important it is to release people that aren't serving you in life even if they are related to you, you don't have to hang on to them.
• 17:02
  Mary: Yeah, you just said what I was going to say, that we have this again.
• 17:06
  Mary: It's a societal idea that your family are always the people that have your back and it's really hard to, you know, have that time of reckoning where you it sounds like you tried, you tried and finally you were like you know what, it doesn't matter what I do, they're not going to be.
• 17:27
  Mary: In a sense, they're ended up not really being your tribe, you know, in the sense of building you up.
• 17:33
  Mary: So, to take a little side path here and it's something that you and I talked about a little bit I know in my life that the women that I have as friends are some of my biggest supports and some of them I met through different jobs.
• 17:52
  Mary: However, I think you and I have both had some experiences where we walk into a professional space with other women and we assume that it's going to kind of be that same thing we expect from family, that we're all in the same place to grow, to support each other.
• 18:09
  Mary: But you don't always have a positive experience, right?
• 18:13
  Mary: Sometimes that weird women competition comes up right and it feels like what am I supposed to do with this?
• 18:20
  Nicole: Yes, totally.
• 18:21
  Nicole: So.
• 18:23
  Nicole: You know, man, I recently joined some networking groups and, yeah, just meeting women even before the networking group, just getting interviews with people that you know might want to hire me, and whatnot.
• 18:35
  Nicole: It's really bizarre because, yeah, I bring this like, yes, I'm happy, let's celebrate.
• 18:39
  Nicole: Wait, you want to celebrate?
• 18:40
  Nicole: Let's, let's get together and build, you know, a party, build an event.
• 18:45
  Nicole: And I get excited and to me I'm like that's in where, yeah, they're matching, they're going to be matching.
• 18:50
  Nicole: I assume they're going to match my energy, I assume they're going to easily fit in and be a part of my tribe.
• 18:56
  Nicole: And for some reason, the primary question is so, Nicole, nice to meet you, why did you want to talk to me today?
• 19:06
  Nicole: And I thought, oh my God, I'm sorry, you sent me an email to talk to me.
• 19:10
  Nicole: Did I miss something?
• 19:12
  Nicole: And they're like well, yeah, I was just wondering do you have a family?
• 19:15
  Nicole: Are you married?
• 19:16
  Nicole: I thought, wait a second, Are they trying to date me or work with me?
• 19:20
  Nicole: Where are these questions coming from?
• 19:25
  Nicole: You know, I thought we were here to talk about building an event or working together, and it's.
• 19:30
  Nicole: I'm just learning that in family you've got to watch your back because you learn you know people that you think are going to be there to support you aren't.
• 19:39
  Nicole: And once you accept that, it's a relief.
• 19:41
  Nicole: You know, in the dating world, once you accept that a man's not there to support you, you know he just wants one thing out of you.
• 19:48
  Nicole: You're like, OK, I recognize the red flags and I know how to carry on from it.
• 19:53
  Nicole: But now, with women in the workforce experiencing this whole new state of misguided support, it's like a bait and switch is what I feel I'm getting with them.
• 20:06
  Nicole: You know, like they're curious about me and they say they want to support me, but it's really just to soothe their own curiosities, the questions that they're asking me.
• 20:14
  Nicole: It's not at all starting off about my work, my work ethic, you know my goals or my abilities, and it's just utterly surprising and I feel I've put my walls up a little bit in that sense, because I'm like where's this coming from?
• 20:28
  Nicole: I'm not that way, you know.
• 20:29
  Nicole: If you tell me, oh, I, you know I'm Mary, I'm a psychologist and this is what I do, I'd be like, great, that's awesome.
• 20:35
  Nicole: When did you decide that I would never start a conversation with anyone, male or female, of their personal life, their personal relationship status, children, not having children and it's really bizarre to me because, again, what these people don't know is the amount of kids I do have in my life that.
• 20:53
  Nicole: I do love and support and take care of and watch and travel with, and it just makes me want to respond, but in a defensive fashion and I don't feel that's actually has anything to do with business.
• 21:06
  Nicole: And it's bizarre to me, you know, and I think, okay, how do I turn it around?
• 21:09
  Nicole: And again, in improv, we're taught to yes and Right, but when I'm approached with these questions in the work environment, it's hard for me to yes, and because I think, well, are they going to receive my joke if I give it back to them?
• 21:25
  Nicole: And how do I pivot from this?
• 21:30
  Nicole: What I really want to say is well, I'm just here to take your husband's ladies watch out.
• 21:36
  Mary: Well, you know, you have, you have a big energy and you know, I think in improv I think it can be intimidating initially when you're in level one and everybody's trying to find their footing.
• 21:48
  Mary: But, as I said in my intro, when you have someone, with the energy you have and for those of you who don't really know improv you establish a scene and you do that by building on what whoever initiated the scene does or says, so you're always supporting.
• 22:06
  Mary: It's a whole community of support.
• 22:09
  Mary: But, as I also said in my intro, we didn't know anything about each other except our first names, and that is an experience you do not often have Because, as you're saying, most people need to figure out where someone belongs and unfortunately in our society we do that with are you married, do you have kids?
• 22:30
  Mary: What job do you have?
• 22:31
  Mary: We didn't fall into that because we couldn't, we just had to meet people on stage.
• 22:36
  Mary: So it's interesting because I think you come into a space with that energy and people aren't used to that and I think it can be maybe intimidating, or other women might be like why is she so happy?
• 22:51
  Mary: Like what's really going on here?
• 22:53
  Mary: And it's unfortunate that we also have sort of a script where we well, I'm not going to say we, many of us feel a sense of envy or like, oh, wow, like there must be more to this than what I'm seeing.
• 23:10
  Mary: And you know, and we sense that right, I think we can, sometimes before women even talk.
• 23:16
  Mary: You know, I said to somebody one day it was a guy I said you know, when women go into social spaces, we dress for other women, you know.
• 23:24
  Mary: And he's like what do you mean?
• 23:26
  Mary: I said well, do you notice that often women will look at other women more critically than in a different way than men might look at a woman?
• 23:36
  Nicole: Do you know what I mean?
• 23:36
  Nicole: You know, I've heard that saying Mary for years.
• 23:40
  Nicole: But I can't tell you.
• 23:41
  Nicole: I can relate because I don't dress for anyone but myself.
• 23:44
  Nicole: I've never dressed for other women.
• 23:46
  Nicole: I see how that holds weight.
• 23:49
  Nicole: But there again, that's where, like, my curiosities end.
• 23:53
  Nicole: I mean, maybe I can't explain it, but I see it.
• 23:56
  Nicole: I've heard that I hear other women be like, oh my God for sure, I want my girlfriends to compliment me, you know.
• 24:02
  Nicole: I want them to ask where I got this and have them feel a little envious that they can't have this because I had it made or something like that.
• 24:08
  Nicole: And I'm like, oh my God, I truly only have ever dressed for my comfort and how I want to present myself in that moment.
• 24:16
  Nicole: Or you know what I'm doing in life that day, you know.
• 24:19
  Nicole: So, for instance, like the comedy classes, I'm coming fresh out of work so I'm in my black, all black on black uniform, not dressed to impress at all, because I'm just living behind the scenes setting stuff up prior to, you know, arriving the class.
• 24:36
  Nicole: But yeah to, you're saying I wish I could understand that thing more, quite honestly, because I don't dress for other women and I don't know that any one woman has dressed for me, but I do love looking at fashion.
• 24:50
  Nicole: I love complimenting people when they look good, of complimenting people when they look good, but I've never put someone down if I felt their attire was off for the occasion.
• 25:02
  Mary: Well, and I think your response there is one of the things that sums up who you are, because you somehow were able to sidestep that socialization and a lot of us have been sort of molded or, you know, kind of formed socially to look at other women, to know if we're okay.
• 25:26
  Mary: And that's where one of the many ways I think that you are unique, because you really seem to sidestep that, so you show up in a space with so much authenticity, and I think that is part of what I'm picking up here is that I think when you can show up in that authentic way, people that don't have that sense of self or maybe sense of self-confidence, that can feel a little bit intimidating, I guess.
• 25:54
  Nicole: So but I've never wanted to have anyone feel intimidated by me.
• 25:58
  Nicole: If anything, I've always strived to have people feel comfortable around me.
• 26:02
  Nicole: I always say I want to be the person that I get back in this life and, if I can, I'll give you a fun little memory.
• 26:10
  Nicole: You know, as I pass by, or you know whether the interactions brief or or long it's.
• 26:18
  Nicole: I just want it to be a good memory of something like oh, that was fun.
• 26:23
  Nicole: You know, I remember you from this and I actually get that a lot lately Like I remember you from you know you and your dog walking down the street with pink and it's like there's so many little things that happen and, yeah, I hope to not intimidate anyone actually, so it's wild to think that others would be intimidated by me, by my presence.
• 26:45
  Mary: Well, and I think that might be why, when you walk into some of these and I don't I don't want to certainly stereotype all women, this is not all women women because, like I said, some of my most beautiful friendships have come from the workplace and these are women that I think share this sense of wanting to actually build other women and men, anyone build them up, and so when you go into a space and you go in with your sort of the foundation that you have of I want to take any situation and kind of you know make it shiny and you know, make it the best it can be, it can really be confusing when you start to interact with people who kind of a little bit like you said, your family, that they're going to look for the things that aren't shiny or the things that are routine or even negative, and it can be like what?
• 27:38
  Mary: Like that's what is going on, like I don't know.
• 27:41
  Nicole: Yes, I have to.
• 27:42
  Nicole: I have to interrupt you there and say I do realize that leading with positivity is not relatable, is not relatable and most people lead with pity me, feel bad for me, relate to my sob story and then help me Because, no matter what, we're all helpers right.
• 28:09
  Nicole: We all want to help in some fashion or another and yeah, I have definitely realized.
• 28:12
  Nicole: It seems you can get more at times, depending on your audience, if you lead with pity and a.
• 28:19
  Nicole: Woe is me personality versus a.
• 28:22
  Nicole: I'm just happy to be here, let's do everything together.
• 28:27
  Mary: Yeah, and you know I feel like you're a realist.
• 28:29
  Mary: You know I never felt like you come in, like you know, with guns blazing, like toxic positivity.
• 28:36
  Mary: I think you're just a realist.
• 28:38
  Nicole: You know, it's your energy, I think.
• 28:40
  Mary: It's not like you come in talking all the time or, you know, like preaching peace and love.
• 28:45
  Mary: Yeah, you have a sense about you that is, you know, positive and uplifting.
• 28:51
  Mary: Okay, so you mentioned something I got to circle back on.
• 28:53
  Mary: You mentioned the world of dating.
• 28:55
  Mary: Okay, so you mentioned something I got to circle back on.
• 28:56
  Mary: You mentioned the world of dating and I'm going to tell you personally as, having, you know, done a lot of dating before I got married, I think sometimes, when you can go in with a lot of, I'm going to again say shine positive energy.
• 29:12
  Mary: I think sometimes you learn and I'll own this I learned that I need to tone it down a little bit because sometimes men misinterpret that.
• 29:21
  Mary: What has been your experience?
• 29:24
  Nicole: Oh yeah, yeah, they think I'm down for anything.
• 29:28
  Nicole: I'm just this fun, bubbly person and I'm like, because I'm just this fun, bubbly person and I'm like I'm not down, I'm up for most things.
• 29:38
  Nicole: However, I will say, when it comes to dating, I lead with a lot of questions, but I am fun and spontaneous and I realize I typically I'm leading the date and it's only fun because of me.
• 29:52
  Nicole: And so what I've learned in the dating world is to see if a man is confident enough to lead and what is his humor and personality like, yeah, men, again, men want to be fixers and they want to.
• 30:08
  Nicole: They want to find like a happy but also like quasi broken woman that they can fix, and that's how they find their place in their life you know, in that woman's life and I'm not saying I don't have problems, but but I'm, I've been really good about having solutions to my problems and not making my problems other people's issues.
• 30:28
  Nicole: You know, I certainly ask for help when I need it.
• 30:31
  Nicole: I'm not shy about that, especially if I know what you do and I'm like, oh, I need help in that field.
• 30:36
  Nicole: Right now I'm going to call that person up and cause I trust them and uh, but dating is just just a freaking whirlwind and it's ridiculous and it's another game that you have to play.
• 30:47
  Nicole: That's not always fun and like it's hard to have your guard up.
• 30:51
  Nicole: But also be myself, you know, as I mean, I'm also you're talking to me now at the state where I'm just so over dating.
• 31:04
  Nicole: I remember when I first joined a dating site and even my friends were like you are way too good for that.
• 31:10
  Nicole: I'm like I know I've never.
• 31:13
  Nicole: You know even let's circle back to my dad when he's like I need you to find someone, babe, and I said why do I have to find someone?
• 31:19
  Nicole: Can't they find me?
• 31:20
  Nicole: And I, I've never been a hunter, I've never been a woman who like goes out and was like I'm going to find a boyfriend today.
• 31:29
  Nicole: You know they, the men, truly I, the guys I end up dating.
• 31:33
  Nicole: I we've stumbled, you know, across each other's paths and they were persistent enough.
• 31:38
  Nicole: They're intelligent, they had a sense of humor and I said, ok, but it didn't work out and I accept that and no matter what, I've always kind of been a loner anyway, I like my freedom in that sense.
• 31:52
  Nicole: I like that I can float around and hang out with my 80 year old friends or an eight month old All in the same weekend and have a frickin blast doing it without having to explain myself to anyone.
• 32:06
  Nicole: And you know that my yeah, my friends and family age range is so vast.
• 32:11
  Nicole: I have a great community in that sense and to bring in anyone, it's hard for a man to understand that.
• 32:18
  Nicole: It's hard for a man to understand how reasonable and emotionally stable I am as a woman dating.
• 32:26
  Nicole: And yeah, it's just, it's wild.
• 32:28
  Nicole: I'm kind of definitely over it right now.
• 32:32
  Mary: You value freedom.
• 32:33
  Nicole: Yeah, yeah, I totally value my freedom and it's you know.
• 32:36
  Nicole: Yeah, you go into a date, you're positive, and guys are like, oh great, you want to really have fun.
• 32:42
  Nicole: So I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes.
• 32:43
  Nicole: So, yeah, I'm kind of over those same redundant conversations and actions that I have to go through to defend and protect myself and my peace.
• 32:55
  Nicole: But I'm like I'm just here to have fun and live my life period.
• 32:59
  Mary: I know there are men that can meet that independent energy and allow it to exist, because I'm married to one.
• 33:07
  Mary: But it is difficult because, you know, we talk or I talk so much about social scripts and all of this stuff and men have them too.
• 33:16
  Mary: And, as you said, you used the word fixer.
• 33:19
  Mary: So I think you know, we, some of us, still think that we have these traditional roles, but I think when you come from a place of having created so much in your life and when you create your own business, wow, you have to learn so much to do that.
• 33:36
  Mary: And so, yeah, I think it can be, as we said, intimidating for women and men, because there's that comparison and sometimes and this is only certain men can have that feeling well, what does she need from me?
• 33:50
  Mary: Precisely, Precisely.
• 33:52
  Mary: And you don't need anything, right, you just want a partner.
• 33:57
  Nicole: my narrative as a teenager watching my friends and cousins date terribly, you know like just just pick all the wrong people.
• 34:11
  Nicole: I mean, I just always said like I don't want a temporary boyfriend, and that's definitely a temporary situation.
• 34:13
  Nicole: I want a partner in life.
• 34:14
  Nicole: I've always said that at a young age and that's still.
• 34:18
  Nicole: What I want now is someone who's a partner, who's a supporter, who adds to my life, and I think I'm I'm really lucky and I have a lot that it's hard to add.
• 34:30
  Nicole: You know it's weird and it's wild, but I definitely, yes, I want and desire someone who's in addition to my life, not someone who like, oh, I couldn't live without them.
• 34:43
  Nicole: That is such a wild thought to me to be like you couldn't live without that person.
• 34:48
  Nicole: I mean even my very best friends.
• 34:50
  Nicole: I can't imagine a day without them, but God forbid, if something happened I could still live.
• 34:55
  Nicole: I also think it's really funny how, on social media, how there's women who you know every couple months and years they found their soulmate once again and it just doesn't have to be that traumatic.
• 35:09
  Mary: Well, it occurs to me to ask you, because you come across with so much self-confidence and even saying you've known or sensed a lot of things from a young age, which I will say I think all of us do, but we along the way, maybe doubted, like well, this is what I really want to do, but I don't know if it's okay.
• 35:26
  Mary: Did you have those doubts, that imposter syndrome or like maybe a limiting narrative?
• 35:33
  Mary: Did any of that come into play for you along the way?
• 35:36
  Mary: Oh, yes, Always, always.
• 35:39
  Nicole: Because growing up, you know, it was the quintessential beast scene, not heard.
• 35:43
  Nicole: My creativity was not welcome, my humor was not welcome, and so, as I would try and express it here and there, you know I was always nervous if the crowd would receive it or not.
• 35:56
  Nicole: And that's when I again realized that, well, if I just produced it myself, I don't have to go to a company and say trust my process, and that I can build a cool event.
• 36:07
  Nicole: I just worked doing jobs I didn't love so I could afford to produce what I wanted to share with the world.
• 36:14
  Nicole: But even then, you know, I did these events, and I mean still to this day, I have imposter syndrome because I'm like I can't believe I did all this.
• 36:22
  Nicole: And then people still ask who I am.
• 36:24
  Nicole: I'm like you're right.
• 36:25
  Mary: Who am I?
• 36:25
  Mary: I don't know.
• 36:26
  Nicole: No, I don't know.
• 36:27
  Nicole: I just I enjoy bringing people together and that's it, you know.
• 36:33
  Nicole: And then, with technology today and knowing I'm not the best at computer work, but I can really build you a space that's beautiful and entertaining.
• 36:42
  Nicole: Computer work, but I can really build you a space that's beautiful and entertaining, yeah, I have a lot of imposter syndrome, especially starting from a young age, where I knew I had a gift, I couldn't share it and I had to somehow break through to people to listen to me and hear me and see me, to let me in, you know, to hire me, you know to just hire me and trust me.
• 37:08
  Nicole: And that's really hard.
• 37:10
  Nicole: I mean, I don't know that you can teach that.
• 37:12
  Nicole: I don't know how many books you have to read to figure that out, but, damn it, I figured it out somehow.
• 37:18
  Nicole: I broke in.
• 37:19
  Nicole: I broke in by doing a lot of jobs.
• 37:21
  Nicole: I didn't like to get in front of the people that I wanted to be in front of, to get the opportunities that I needed and wanted to provide a life for myself.
• 37:31
  Mary: Well, you definitely have really embodied one of the main things that I talk about all the time, and that's taking up your space, and I think you know I'm thinking now that all these themes that we're talking about have to resonate, because there's not anyone who had, first of all, a linear path to success.
• 37:53
  Mary: There's not anyone that didn't have failures along the way.
• 37:56
  Mary: And you know these times where they look at something and they're like, oh my gosh, like how did I do that?
• 38:02
  Mary: Or can I do that.
• 38:04
  Mary: And you know, I think your message of you do it anyway, and that's you're right.
• 38:11
  Mary: There are many books on it, but you have to do something.
• 38:15
  Mary: By doing it and being willing to take the chance, and you just really have the ability to connect with the essence of who you are as a person and put that in the world.
• 38:28
  Nicole: Well, thank you, yeah.
• 38:29
  Nicole: And that truly started at a young age again, going back to my childhood, where you know my parental figures would just say no for everything.
• 38:39
  Nicole: And I would sit as a child and wonder at every angle why would they say no, is it dangerous?
• 38:46
  Nicole: No, am I really going to get lost?
• 38:47
  Nicole: No, am I going to get taken?
• 38:48
  Nicole: No, how much is it going to cost?
• 38:51
  Nicole: Not that much.
• 38:51
  Nicole: I would just sit and brew and for every angle I just always looked at the big picture and couldn't understand why the no.
• 39:01
  Nicole: But yet I was persistent and I would ask.
• 39:03
  Nicole: And at a young age I would always ask.
• 39:07
  Nicole: And then I'd ask why?
• 39:08
  Nicole: And you don't ask your parental figures, why?
• 39:10
  Nicole: Because they said so.
• 39:12
  Nicole: But I always had that same just ask.
• 39:15
  Nicole: Who cares?
• 39:15
  Nicole: Just ask.
• 39:17
  Nicole: And that's that's how I got in.
• 39:19
  Nicole: You know, to so many spaces that I got into was because I just asked.
• 39:25
  Nicole: I put myself in front of the field like oh, you're the owner, so can I do this here?
• 39:28
  Nicole: Most people might have fear doing that and I thought I never had the fear to ask to be let in, even when I was going to nightclubs at a young age illegally, like I didn't care.
• 39:42
  Nicole: I asked like can you let me in?
• 39:44
  Nicole: I know the bouncer, I know the DJ and I guess you know my maturity level was great and my confidence was there.
• 39:50
  Nicole: They're like, yeah, go, go right on ahead.
• 39:51
  Nicole: I was like, yep, that's my friend over there.
• 39:54
  Nicole: And then, like even events that I did, I just pranced in the space and I was like who owns this joint?
• 39:58
  Nicole: I want to have an event here.
• 39:59
  Nicole: I've got this wild idea and I just had to ask.
• 40:04
  Nicole: I never stopped asking, even today, like I remember my brother used to fight me growing up and be like Nick, you're going to get us in trouble, stop asking.
• 40:11
  Nicole: And I was like no, they're not providing a reasonable reason for us, they're not providing a reasonable explanation to say no, like they're just being miserable and mean for no reason.
• 40:24
  Nicole: I can't accept that.
• 40:30
  Nicole: And then that carried over into work life where it's like, and you know, owners of buildings, they want you to bring crowds into their space.
• 40:33
  Nicole: Of course they're going to say yes.
• 40:35
  Nicole: And then I follow through and you know the amount of people I've had come to me like I did not think you're going to pull that off.
• 40:48
  Nicole: You know, as a 20 year old, something you know, new person in the area versus a man in his you know, puts in 60, who's done like all the major events in Harrisburg for so long.
• 40:52
  Nicole: And he was like I did not think you, this little punk kid, was going to show up and really show out and here you did, and I was like well, yeah, I did what I said I was going to do.
• 41:01
  Nicole: You know, to me it's as simple as that.
• 41:04
  Nicole: I said I was going to do what I said I was going to do and it turned out.
• 41:08
  Nicole: It makes me nervous as hell, don't get me wrong, because that's my art.
• 41:11
  Nicole: You know, every gig I do, whether it's my own production that I'm producing for the public to experience, or I'm hired to do an event for my client I always, in the back of my head, I go is this stupid?
• 41:23
  Nicole: Are they going to love this?
• 41:24
  Nicole: Are they just blowing smoke up my ass saying this is a good idea?
• 41:28
  Nicole: You know what I mean?
• 41:29
  Nicole: Because they feel bad for me and I'm like no, I don't want anyone to feel bad for me.
• 41:32
  Nicole: This is awesome, it's okay.
• 41:34
  Nicole: Like this does taste great, this does look good, this is cool.
• 41:37
  Nicole: Get over yourself, nicole.
• 41:39
  Nicole: What's next?
• 41:39
  Nicole: You know and that's another part of when I do events now too, like I never look back at my work.
• 41:44
  Nicole: I hate.
• 41:45
  Nicole: I hate looking at my past work.
• 41:46
  Nicole: I have to move on to the next thing.
• 41:48
  Nicole: I'm one of those people like I don't want to hear my voice.
• 41:51
  Nicole: I don't want to.
• 41:51
  Nicole: I don't want to see my work.
• 41:53
  Nicole: I'm the biggest critic, you know, and it's hard for me when people are like, oh, show me what you've done, and I'm like, oh, why do you want to see it?
• 41:59
  Nicole: I want to move on to the next thing.
• 42:01
  Nicole: Come on with me.
• 42:02
  Nicole: We don't need to look in the past, let's move forward.
• 42:05
  Mary: Well, this has gone in a lot of directions that I didn't anticipate, which is so awesome.
• 42:11
  Mary: I love when that happens.
• 42:13
  Mary: So it's been so cool to talk to you and, of course, I set the stage that we're going to talk about boundaries, which we did, but we also talked about ask questions, take up your space and find your joy, and I just those themes really light me up.
• 42:28
  Mary: So it has been just a delight to talk to you and get to know you more today, so thank you so much for being here.
• 42:35
  Nicole: Yeah, thank you Mary.
• 42:36
  Nicole: Thank you for having me, thank you for even wanting to hear my stories and my ridiculousness.
• 42:41
  Nicole: I appreciate it very much.
• 42:43
  Nicole: I hope it inspires someone out there to know that even though, if you started small and being put down, that hurt doesn't go away for sure, those memories don't go away.
• 42:56
  Nicole: But I will say just keep following your intuition and keep pushing through and eventually you'll turn around and realize what a hell of a life you've built for yourself and it was worth it the whole way.
• 43:12
  Mary: That's a beautiful bow to put on this.
• 43:14
  Mary: So thank you again, and one of the most important reasons that I do this is because of these stories, and it's developed into this wonderfully supportive community of women and men that support women taking up their space in the world and living a life of fulfillment.
• 43:31
  Mary: I love to hear from my listeners, so please comment, follow or text me directly using the link in the show notes.
• 43:38
  Mary: Let me know what you thought of this episode or tell me what you'd love to hear about.
• 43:42
  Mary: There's no mental health or wellness topic that is off limits.
• 43:46
  Mary: You can also visit my website at maryrothwellnet, which is linked in the show notes, and see all the impactful options I have to help people find health and wellness and to see all my podcast episodes in one place.
• 43:59
  Mary: And, as always, thanks for listening and until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant Violet that you are.
• 44:09
  Mary: Thank you.