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Transcript

The Late Debate | 22 December · The Late Debate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the late debate and good evening and welcome.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Nice to have your company. Thank you for joining us
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: on They're not so late debate and that you earlier
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: summer time to fit in with the way our lives
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: are changing at the moment. I'm Kel Richards, delighted to
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: have your company. I'm joined by the band with the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: brain the size of a planet, Joe Hildebrand I love
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: bel and the delightful Louise Roberts. Lovely to have you
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: with us.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: We're only four days away from Christmas. And if you
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: happened to get an invitation to have Christmas with the
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Raw family at Sandringham, what would it be like? I mean,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: might you find yourself getting cheap, jokey Christmas presents made
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: to sleep in the servants room? And how do you
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: feel about paying tips? Are you happy about that?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: All?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Less than happy? And Cash is back Those stories later,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: but first we have to talk about Bondy. You're still
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: talking about Bondeye over the evening meal. We're still to
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: talking about it because it still matters, you know, the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: developments that have happened last night and today. Last night
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: was the end of Harneker and the Prime Minister Anthony Alberzi,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: after avoiding those Jewish funerals and not going back to
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Bondai for the rest of the week, appeared last night.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: He was in the audience at that ceremony to mark
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the end of Harnka and what happened was not very
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: comfortable for him.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: Take a look the Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Alberenzi.
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Federal excuse me, excuse me.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: They say that the word sorry is the hardest word
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: to say, but perhaps inspired by what happened last night,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Anthony Alberesi today did say sorry.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: We want urgency and unity, not division and delay. As
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Prime Minister, I feel the weight of responsibility for an
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: atrocity that happened whilst I'm Prime Minister and I'm sorry
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: for what the Jewish community and our nation as a
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: whole has experienced. The Government will work every day to
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: protect Jewish Australians, to protect the fundamental right as Australians
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: that they have to be proud of who they are,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: to practice their faith, to educate their children and to
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: engage in Australian society in the fullest way possible.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Now we didn't see it in that clip but he
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: did actually use the word sorry, and it's the first
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: time he's done that. What he said was he was
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: sorry for the hurt that the Jewish people of Australia
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: had felt and that the community as a whole had felt.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: But is it enough? Was he just expressing sympathy. Should
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: he have gone to the point of saying, look, I'm
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: sorry for the stuff I should have done a year
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: ago or two years ago, and I'm only getting around
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to it now. Is it enough of an apology?
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Joe? Yeah, I think. I mean, I think there are
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: some people for whom whatever Anthony Albaneze he says or
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: does will never be enough. And I think, to be honest,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I can understand I'm certainly not going to in any
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: way judge the anger or fury or blame of a
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: grieving family or a grieving loved one. And we know that,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of people in the Jewish community
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: have felt let down by the Prime Minister and the government.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: But I think that the I think, firstly, doing the
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Prime Minister at a memorial service is a disgraceful act
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: and an incredibly disrespectful Obviously, the bloke called Russell who
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: tried to rush the PM and started screaming about blood
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: on his hands. Is a disgusting act to commit at
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: a vigil that is meant to be a respectful service
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: in memory of the dead. And I think there are
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of people who are just using this and
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: trying to hijack this tragedy as a vehicle for their
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: own pre.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Existing hijacking an event. It felt something literally charged, spontaneous. Yeah,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: the boot, not one person, but the whole crowd boot
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: And what a feeling was. It was just as spontaneous.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: We are this hurt, we are this disappointed.
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: I didn't like hearing it either, Yeah, it was. And
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: the way he walked out with Jodie as well, he
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: would just look broken really. But to your point, I
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: can also appreciate the anger from not only Jewish Australians
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: but also Australians you know, around the country who feel
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: that he had to say so at least he said it.
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: So I was relieved that he said it today, But
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: how much conviction is there or is he under pressure still?
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: And of course we're going to talk about the Royal
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: Commission or lack of Royal commission. I mean, really, that's
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: what he should be saying next, Okay, I've said sorry,
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: and now you know what, I've changed my mind. We
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: don't mind if he changes his mind. I Am going
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: to do a royal commission. And I think that's what
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: Jewish Australians really want to hear.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: If they're expecting a federal royal commission. They seem to
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: think a federal royal commission is going to have the
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: power and going to have the authority of the central
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: government to really pursue what they want to pursue. Why
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: is he resisting it so much?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Joe? Look, I think to some extent I'm in two
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: minds about the Royal Commission. The first question is how
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: broad do you want it to be? Is it just
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: a royal commission into all antisemitism in Australia or antisemitism
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: since October the seventh? And then what are you expecting
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: it to sort of come back and find how are
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: you expecting it to solve it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Let me put up an idea and let me see
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: what you think. You could set up a Royal commission
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: and say we want some stage reports. We would like
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: you really quickly to look at where intelligence and law
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: enforcement fell down so that these alleged killers were not
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: caught before it happened, and then after you've done that,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: then move on to find out why it is we've
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: had this increase in due hatred in our community over
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: this last couple of years, and what can we do
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: to stop that.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I think most people know why and know that it
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: has been there, and I think the argument for a
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Royal commission is that it would actually produce finding say, yes,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: there was an epidemic of antisemitism in Australia, or there
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: is or whatever, and that is the fact that is
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: our finding and you can't run away from it.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I think there is an argument there where you have
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: people who are still in denial about it. But in
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: terms of what to do about it, I mean they're
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: already moving to Titan hate speech laws and moving to
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: tighten those laws to within an inch of where I
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people on the right or conservatives
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: who support free speech might suddenly get very uncomfortable with that.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, including religious discripinty religion in eighteen C.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I mean this was something when you know a few
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: years ago the liberals were saying eighteen C was a
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: threat to free speech. It was the imams who wanted
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: to include religion as a basis of action under eighteen C. Now,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: if we include religion as a category there, you know,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: for the sake of the Jewish community in the wake
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: of this, we will actually be fulfilling a request that
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: the Council of Mums actually made. So you know, we
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: just have to be careful and clear headed about this.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people, I mean, I'm
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: absolutely horrified obviously by what happened. I have a lot
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: of friends in the Jewish community. A lot of people
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: think I'm Jewish myself, and we're texting saying are you okay?
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: All right? But and I know that people want to
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: see order in this and have some someone to blame.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: We know already, for example, that ASO and the New
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: South Wales Police clearly didn't coordinate enough because this guy
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: was on a watch list and yet he was living
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: in the same house as his father, who had six
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: firearms licenses. And there's also going to be overhauling the
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: firearms licenses. Now, we don't really need to wait two
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: years for a Royal Commission to hand out its findings
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: to know that that's a good idea. We need to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: act on these things. Now and there's another metal terror attack.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: The worry is this is where the this is where
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the optics are so bad for Anthony il BELIZI, the
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: worry is, look, he's doing things now, he's announcing things now,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: why not a year ago? Years ago? I think there
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: is That's what that is? What is that's why he's
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: looking like a brother.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Think there is a problem with Anthony seeing not to
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: have acted as fast and as hard as he could
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: have or indeed just spoken as well as for example,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Chris Mins did about anti Semitism. But that is very
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: different from the accusation that he has got blood on
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: his hand.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, so I think that's anasty. I think I don't
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: think that that's the accusation most Australians are making. It's
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: this feeling that you've lost our good will. We expected
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: you as our prime minister to act more, more decisively
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: and much earlier. I mean, I do think he's lost
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: goodwill about this.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: I feel that as well for a majority weed in
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: May to then people booing him again, I didn't, I didn't.
• 8:39
  Speaker 5: I thought that was disgraceful too at the bond Di event.
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: But I really don't think that the government can investigate
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: itself on this. I really am very strongly in favor
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: of the commission, a royal commission, exactly because I just
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: want to what Australians don't want is any situation where
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: we're containing the political fall out here that's going to
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: be anything papered over or anyone hand picked, or any
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: situ suation where the truth doesn't come out, Because isn't
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: the point really from this if we investigated, is to
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: learn from what happened and make sure this never happens again.
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: I mean, it won't happen again, but we don't want
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: any more violence towards the Jewish community. Isn't it about
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: getting the learnings here?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: It is, certainly, And to work out why the government
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: took so long to act. I mean, the warnings of
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: rising due hatred in the community have been there for
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: a long time.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: ITH absolutely had. I mean, but again the question is,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: you know, what do you do about it? How do
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: you respond? Now?
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Know?
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Do you lock up anyone who has expressed any kind
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: of anti Jewish sentiments? I mean, that's to be honest.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I just a lot of hate speech out there that
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I'm amazed is not actionable because it's an open insightment
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: to violence.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: But it's nice. What leadership is. I kept imagining Bob
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Hawk in that position, and Bob Hawk would have been dynamic.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: He would have made really strong, powerful, persuasive passion. This
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: is UnAustralian, this is ugly, this is and we didn't
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: have a prime minister who could do that.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: That's right. I think a big part of this problem
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: is not that, you know, this lack of action or
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: whatever is what led to these events, Because these events,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: you know, Asio itself said that there was a probable
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: there was that people weren't feeling, especially the Jewish community,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: wasn't feeling that Anthony Alberanzi was empathetic enough that he
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: really understood that he was really alive to just how
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: scared and anxious they were. And I'm not saying being
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: pejoritive about this, but if you look at the difference
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: between Anthony Alberanzi and Chris Min's, the same thing happened
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: to both those men on both of their watches. They
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: both If we're going to say one is responsible, then
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: both are responsible. Even the difference is that Men's was
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: much more able and convincingly to show how much he
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: understood and to show how much he cared. So when
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: we talk about not letting and again do we then
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: have a state roles?
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: Doesn't that mean then the pms failed fail to actually read.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Sure, that's part of the job of a prime minister
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: is to provide leadership, leads and to reassure people. And
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: you made the point of we don't want this to
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: happen again. But there are people who are known to
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: be jew haters and who are known to belong to
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: radical Islam and be supporters of vices who are in
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the community now. Some of them are on what to
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: call the ESOS extended supervision orders, which means they're being
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: checked out all the time. The worry is there may
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: be other people out there who should be on esos
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and are not right. That's the worry is not.
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: Even supervisions really may not prevent.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Well that attack like this. We would hope that that's
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: what it's meant to do. Yes, I mean, I hate
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: to say this, but it really is terrifying. Could there
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: be someone out there motivated to do a copycat of it?
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: That'd be awful, wouldn't it?
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Absolutely no, No, But these threats are happening all the time.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: It's not like this, just this just sprung up in
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: a vacuum. The reason why this attack happened and it
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: was the worst mass killing in thirty years since Port Arthur.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: The reason why isn't because there haven't been other threats
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: out there. It's because usually the AFP, the New South
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Wales cops asio have been really really good.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: In fact, they've stopped toiling.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Huge number. I mean, I know cops are working count term.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: It is amazing the stuff that they have stopped, and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: even just like you say, could have happen again. Just
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: days after the Bondai attack, cops arrested a whole bunch
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: of people who they were worried were going to commit
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: a similar effect. It turned out they had to release
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: them all, but they didn't have enough to charge them.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: They had enough intelligence obviously to think that something could
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: be up.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: But they're now on to hear trigger and they weren't before.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: There's problems. There's there's that obviously, not taking the threat
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: of Hanuka at Bondi Beach and not realizing what a
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: potential kind of tinderbox that could be, what a potential
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: how vulnerable Jewish communities would be, and how highly visible,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: but also the fact there are only three relatively junior
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: officers in Bondi.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: The problem on a day like that when we show
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that Chris Minn says, oh, you're attacking the police officer
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: and they're great. Wh're not. They're not attacking the police officers,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: but we were attacking the command system and the command
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: decisions that didn't put enough people on the ground. Also,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: we've also got to have a feeling that our leaders
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: are on our side and looking after us. And Susan
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Lee made a point, didn't she about this? Today? She
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: talked about Penny Wong, She.
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: Did, saying she never cried any tears, she hadn't turned
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: up to Bondi the visual side, she hadn't gone to
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: any huntaka celebrations, nothing at all. And then basically mia,
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: which is not a good look from someone who's been
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: obviously so pro Palestine even this year, to recognize this.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Look at what Susan Lee had to say.
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: I didn't see Penny Wong attend a single funeral. I
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: haven't seen Penny Wong shed a single tear. So maybe
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: if more government members and ministers were like Mike Freelander
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: and actually came to the streets of BONDI and listened
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: and not just listened, but heard heard the pain, heard
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: the anguish, heard the call to action. We wouldn't have
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: the ridiculous remarks that she made this morning.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Well that's a more passionate Susan Lee that I think
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: we've seen.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one word for it. Look, I thought Josh Freedenberg's
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: speech was genuinely impassionate, obviously came from a place of
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: real I mean, this is someone who understands anti Semitism profoundly.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: His parents fled the Holocaust though Hungarian Jews.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And his life.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: His speech, that's right, and his speech in BONDI I
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: think was really passionate that I think just looked unhinged
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: to me. I've got to say, it looked kind of
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: what she wants to see Penny one cry. I mean again,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: it just doesn't seem to be treating this horrible, horrible
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: event and the repercussions it's having with the respect and
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: dignity and solemnity that I think we all need to
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: treat it with. I mean again, we're talking about all
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: these different factors that we're contributing to it. That's what
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: we need to look at. We need to find out
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: and know not blame people, not say oh, it's all
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: the police's fault for not being there, or it's all
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Asio's fault for you know, not saying that they were
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: watching this guy, or it's all the cops's fault for
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: giving him a firearms license, or it's all Elbow's fault,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: or it's all.
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: Interesting though there is a lot of blady going on,
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: isn't that right?
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Revving up that like, I mean, what what does that achieve?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Like an hysterical speech like that does not to me
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: seem to provide any kind of pozzle.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Minister hasn't been in No fan of Penny Wong.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I'm no fan of Penny Wong, and I think that
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: her her, you know, her stupid remarks immediately after October
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: seven saying that you know that Israel's response has to
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: be proportionate was an immediate own goal that instantly got
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: everyone's backs up and made everyone think that, right, this
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: is an anti Jew, anti Israel left wing government, which
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I think is not actually true, but that is what
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: it looked like because of Penny Wong, because she is
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: from the left and I think probably does you know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: traditionally come from a more pro Palestine background. But but
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: again for the opposition leader to get up and sort
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: of rant and rave about how she hasn't seen the
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Foreign Minister cry, I mean, that's.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Just stud I think the point was an absence. But
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: people have to make up your own mind. You have
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: to decide whether you think certainly was genuine about that,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: and whether you think Penny Wong has done what she
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: could have done.
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: That's your decision, and whether you feel now the Prime
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: Minister is actually going to back in our Jewish community,
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: people feel that exactly.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: One of the big things that's happening is gun control
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: and an interesting gap in the gun laws. A lacuna
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: in the gun laws in Queensland has emerged. Returns out
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: that people who have had their guns taken from them
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: by the police, and who in the past of threatened
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: mass murders can actually have them return. They can apply
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: to a court and they can say well, yes the
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: police investigated me and yes I did make those threats,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: but I was never convicted and if a conviction is
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: not recorded, they get their gun back. There's a bit
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: that needs to be tightened up, there isn't it.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely is. And look I agree with a lot
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: of people who say all this talk about gun reform
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: is actually a distraction or is just something I mean,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: it's I don't necessarily think it's a distraction. I think
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: it's very convenient for a lot of people on the left,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of people who were pro Palestine and anti
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Israel and our say, oh no, it wasn't anti Semitism
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: at all. It was you know, lacks gun laws. That's
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: really the blame. Clearly that that is us covering on
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: a national scale. But we can do both. Like clearly
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: there is no reason whatsoever why someone living in suburban
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Sydney needs six rifles and there is absolutely no way.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I used to cover this a bit at the Daily Telegraph.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: You go through all these sort of court lists of
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: court findings about all these people who would be would
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: have their gun license revoked or denied them by the
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: New South Wales Police, the Commission of Police in New
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: South Wales, and I assume in Queensland can say no, no, no,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: you don't get to have a gun mate. We know
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: what you're like, we know your background, and then they
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: appeal to an administrative appeals tribune all the sort of
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: you know, quasi judicial body and some sort of Santa Claus.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Santa Claus, he says, oh ye, but you're sorry that,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: you're you know, sorry that wife, or you're sorry that whatever.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: What that means to get them back, and it would.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Often lead to, you know, next thing, you know, it's Waco, Texas.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: That's right, it's badly written legislation. And it looks as
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: though our politicians are now going to fix that and
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: make the legislation as tightly written as it should be.
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: Just because no conviction doesn't mean someone should be allowed
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: to have a gun. I mean, surely they're the people
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: should not have so.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Deciding whether or not to give someone who may or
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: may not have committed a terrible.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Why not.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: But you're on the side of don't give them.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: But you've got to write it into the laws, so it.
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: Can't exactly on that gun lawd debate. I think it's
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: very important it doesn't become a city discussion. I mean,
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: because it really any sort of legislation change will really
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: have a huge impact on regional and rural communities as well.
• 18:47
  Speaker 7: Who really are the legitimate demonstrated you can do this
• 18:51
  Speaker 7: even though there will be some people in rural communities
• 18:54
  Speaker 7: who are unhappy and a lot of boarding shooters who
• 18:56
  Speaker 7: are unhappy.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: You can get away with it if you do it well,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: if you do it.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: I think the difference of that, though, is that there's
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: a lot of discussion with the various stakeholders before the
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: legislation came through with Port Arthur, whereas it's a bit
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: cut before the horse. At the moment, I can see
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: Chrispin's very decent person obviously wants to make an impact
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: here after the atrocity of Bond Eye. But I would
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: urge caution because you know, there's a lot of people
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: and a lot of industry is going to be very
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: much affected by this, who maybe feel they don't have
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: a voice and the city's taking over.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: They talk about consultation, but it has to be real.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I have no problem with country people having a whole
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: set of rules just for them so that they are
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: treated more luckily. And it is it is actually done
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: because got different reasons, that's right, So find sources of
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: the RMS.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's remember. One of the things that made this
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: a particularly painful event is the fact that for the
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Jewish people was in the start of Huniker, first Night
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: of hunniker very important celebration and for all of us,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: we felt it because we're so close to Christmas. This
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: is meant to be the season which is a time
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: of peace, a time of JOI. It's meant to feel
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: better than this, and it's for some people, this is
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: going to be a difficult Christmas because the pain of
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: what's happened is going to be part of what they
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: need to deal with this Christmas. And on the subject
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: of Christmas, let's think about how the British royal family
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: spends Christmas. They don't spend Christmas quite like the rest
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: of us. They always go to Sandringham, and apparently there
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: are some odd things that happen. For example, they tend
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: to give each other. They are very strict rules. King
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Charles has banned certain foods and he has these unusual traditions.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: They set up a trestle table and they exchange gifts,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: but they have to be very cheap, silly, joky. Princess
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Anne gave the then Prince Charles a padded toilet seat
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: so that he w it's so incredible, and that the
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: lower members in the pecking order they get their gifts last.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And William is said to be unhappy about this, and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the people in the lower in the pecking order have
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: to sleep in the servants for.
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: We don't want that. Isn't this fascinating? Though, well, probably
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: still five dark and.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: The star people servant in the backyard.
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: It isn't a fascinating seeing how they do Christmas because
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: they are so bound by a tradition. But what I
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: thought was interesting about this story is that Charles has
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: got more of a cosmetic I guess changes to Christmas
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: no fi gra thank you, because he's obviously very concerned
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: about environment and animal rights and there. And I fully
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: support that because I think it's a disgusting practice and
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: a disgusting product. But William, I think morelways got this
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: generational reckoning happening, hasn't He sort of doesn't want the
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: joke gifts, you know, he doesn't want the lower members
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: or more junior or younger members of the royal family
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: sleeping in the servants quarters, which are probably still pretty
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: you know.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I think they're pretty nice.
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: I think they're probably still like I'm sure we'll be
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: comfortable there. But I think what we're seeing is that
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: Charles will keep sort of treading water to an extent.
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: I mean, he's a man who's battling cancer, Whereas I
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: think William was going to slowly usher through a lot
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: of changes, and Christmas will be very different when he
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: is King Andrew.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: The Royal family has, for all its pomp and ceremony,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: has always when you sort of peel back the surface,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: has always had not just rept out, but have really
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: been really bawdy, really kind of juvenile good time. Yeah, Franks, Yeah,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: you know laughs laks Well. I mean if you look
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: at like, you know, Prince Harry, you know when he
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: was fun, you know when behind.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: The running joke that they could use it the Christmas
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: body this year, every so often someone could say there's
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: any one seen Andrew that would get a laugh, wouldn't it?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Because Andrew mount Patten Winter, a man that no one
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: really wants to spend Christmas with anymore, looks like having
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: his turkey and his Christmas putting entirely on his own.
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: Pizza Express for one.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe I think for Andrewingham, for Andrew, it's sands Stringham.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: May need. That's all right, I'm going.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: To work on that come back very soon. Now.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: We have been for a long time totally dependent on
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: our plastic money, on our cards and We're now being
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: told that laws are being passed, which means that the
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: major retailers, major businesses, the big ones, will have to
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: accept cash. If we rock up with cash, they have
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: to accept that. They can't say no, where many to
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: take cards. It applies to the big supermarkets, the service
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: stations will have to accept cash under this massive money change,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: which comes in in January of next year. The smaller companies,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: those which have got a smaller turnover, they can still
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: say no, we don't take cash. We it's cards only
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: return to cash. You're fond of.
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: Cash, absolutely, I'm quite old school. Cash is king in
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: my book. That's where my dad brought me up. Pay
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: cash if you can love, don't put on the credit card.
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: And I think it's also good because if you're not,
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: if you don't have stable banking access, you still want
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: to be able to get some cash and go to
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: the survey and get some fuel, or go and get
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: some grocery. So I think I'm more for I think
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: it's great to actually have more cash back in the system,
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: but protecting small businesses of course, who still want to
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: use the FPOs machine and.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: For whom it's yet another burden to handle. The money
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: that's ride of the bank and all that sort of thing.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: You are cash as king man.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I'm of the generation where you know, where
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: you go to the sausagees or whatever, and they would
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: only take cash, and so you had to have one
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to snag. And now of course even that is changing.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And even though because every phone's got like a tap
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: and go out, so now suddenly cash is ironically enough
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: no longer almost legal tender because some places don't have
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: to actually accept it.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Actually buskers now who've got the little thing?
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: So a beggar who a homeless person who actually had
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: a sort of tab and go thing. I actually thought,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: you know what, Wow, that's very entrepreneurial. This guy should
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: go into business.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Can I remind you that Rowan Deane, a host of
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: outsiders and the world, according to Rwandan and my editor
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: at the Spectator of Australia, very strongly believes in cash.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: He says, if everything is on cards and everything is
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: in computers, it gives them too much power over us.
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: Budget as well.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I mean a budget even with being cash back, though
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: basically that would still not absolutely everything about you except
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: who your cleaners are and how much a gift to Busket.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Now there is a suggestion that because we are in
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: an economic crisis and things are getting tighter and it's
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: more difficult, a lot of restaurants and house hospitality places
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: are going to make tipping part of the system. They're
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: going to build it in. They do it at the
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: French restaurant that my wife and I go to. Up
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: on the little window on the electonic machine, it says nothing.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: He's imitating perhaps fifteen percent, and you just tap that
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: with your finger and you've suddenly paid a tip of
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: you are tipping person.
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: I am a tipping person. In fact, I get told
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: off at restaurants leaving too much tips.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Oh what a humble brag. So what I try and
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: do problem is that.
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: The rest oncho thanks for looking after me, but don't look.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: I say, this is a bit of a collision between
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: costs of living and you know all the extra costan
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: and small businesses have to weather. So you know, if
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: the tip goes through, I'm happy to let it slide.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe you're not a big tip of curl.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: You don't know, no, no, Because in Australia, the people
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: who work in these hospitality things have played a proper
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: wage they've played a real salary. I understand in America
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: they've played a pittance and they actually earn their money
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: from the tips that they get. But that's not the
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: case here, is it.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: So okay, Yeah, look, if you're arguing for higher wages
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: and penalty rates, then I'm all, I'm all, I'm all
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: in thank you. We'll put that on the record. Yeah.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I think I still like to tip because I think,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: you know, usually even if if you're eating out at
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: a restaurant, chances are the person serving you your food
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: isn't earning as much money as you are, and so
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I always do it. But I do have I kind
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: of there's a couple of things with this scheme. Firstly,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: that it's just sort of built in, because I think
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of people tip because like Louise, they're incredibly
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: generous and they just ca it and they want to
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: feel but they want to feel like this is something
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: they're doing out of the goodness of their heart, because
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: it's not you know, if it's it's not, it's not
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you doing it.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: If they're you know, if it's built into that's right.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Basically if the weight is standing there, when.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: It's built into the charging system. You think who gets
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the money.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: That's the outide of the.
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: Box that go to that's where the cash comes in.
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: Fly twenty to the service ten maybe five.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: The other. The other really good thing about tipping is
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: you can decide not to. There are times when the
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: meal was what you wanted or the service wasn't what
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: you wanted, and you can think, right, they have not
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: you don't get it.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Then they'll be sorry. Really they'll be sitting there to
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: do that in their lives, going, oh god, it'd have
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: been nicer to that man.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. Do you think that
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: weight loss drugs should be on the pharmaceutical benefit scheme?
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: An interesting idea and we'll talk about that after the break.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: It's the late boat with Kel Richards, Louise Roberts and
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Joe Hildebrand, all of whom have slim, tight, taught terrific figures.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: So none of us are right. Yes, it's moretant terrific.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: But the old country there are people who don't have
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: the good fortune that we have, or didn't choose the
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: right parents, or whatever's gone wrong, or they just had
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: far too much, too many hamburgers, and they've now got
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: a weight problem. And Ozempik is this magical answer that
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: helps people lose weight. I don't know how much it cost,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: but apparently it's fairly expensive. But it is now going
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: to go onto the pharmaceutical benefits scheme for some people,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: for those of experienced to heart attack, a stroke, or
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: have symptomatic peripheral arterial disease, So some will have their
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: weight loss drugs subsidized for the first time. Good idea
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: or bad idea of.
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: The work, there's a good idea. I think it's finally
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: treating obesity like a medical condition, not some sort of
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: moral failure. And it's quite specific about heart attacks or
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: sort of arterial diseases. And it's a bit of a
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: landmark health policy shift I think. I mean, I'm for it.
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, there'll be some people say, no, we shouldn't
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: be paying for fat people lose way, But it's such
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: a nuanced situation obesity, I think, and I think we
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: can support the health of people and help them fund
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: these changes, then it's got to be a good thing
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: for a straight society.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Could be the thin edge of the wedge. Could it
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: be that, well, just these people will get the subsidized
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: lost strokes now, But we'll just make.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: It, I reckon. Pretty soon they all, well, I don't
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: mind it either, actually, so I should probably shut up.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: But I agree with and I think with all this stuff,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: you've got to look at it not just for you know,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: is it good for that individual person. Are we giving
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: someone basically a taxpayer funded handout when they should be
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: putting their money they hand in their own pocket. But
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: is it good for society as a whole? And I reckon,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: it's just good. You know, it's better for society as
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: a whole if we're you know, generally speaking, you know,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: less obese, more active, you know, more to get around.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, just think about you know, everyone, you know
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: when you're sitting on a plane and think, oh, I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: hope they're not sitting next to me. Imagine if everyone
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: could fit in the plane seat. That's good, not just
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: for the person who benefits sitting.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Next to economically good because if those people don't go
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: into hospital with serious conditions, because obesity leads to a
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: lot of serious conditions, we actually might end up making
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: money on this kind of thing.
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: Well, of course, I mean, with ozempic being the key
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: thing for diabetes, you know that at least is so
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: many other chronic illnesses. Yes, so yeah. I think it's
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: great to actually support them as well and not make
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: them feel ostracized. Looks some people haven't.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of ozebic face?
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: Oh that's not the melted candle.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: No, no, no no. I discovered this doing my word watching.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: There's a new expression of ozepic face, and it means
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: your face changes its shape a bit the way steroids
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: can make it, making you look fatter.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: And the follow.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Zembic face I have, I have heard, I have heard
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: tell of such a thing, and I think my wife
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: has what they call resting ozebic face. I think we
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: going fair. I think we will make you know botox
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: and collagen and make it all taxpayer subsidized so that
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: we can just become the hottest nation on Earth.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Look at that's what we have. Joe here for for
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: the really sensible, down to worth, reasonable, common sense suggestions for.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: A happier Australia.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Just a short while ago, those Australians who are under
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the age of sixteen were not allowed to access social
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: media sites. This is the new law that's been brought
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: in by the Albanizi government and other governments around the
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: world are now looking at and saying, this looks interesting.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: We might do the same thing. The Prime Minister of
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the UK, so Kirstarma, is now looking at the possibility
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: and thinking this could be good. I might do similar
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: sort of legislation.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Good thing look at it is like look to be honest, obviously,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: if you're going to get your policy endorsed by any
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: other world leader, to give it some crestars not the
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: one is the last person the least right there. And
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: so you know, I don't like the idea that people
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: already think that you know, kids starbar or Elbow are
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: too much alike already. But but it is and it's
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: not just Starma's government that this has been an absolute
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: raging success. I think just about every oec D nation
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: has looked at it and is really interested in implementing it.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Had a huge amount of buzz at the UN where
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Anika Wells spent you know, one hundred thousand dollars of
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: taxpayers money to take the gloss offer a bit didn't. Yeah,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: but I think it's it is just a note brak
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: like if you're a parent my age where where you
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: do have kids who are just in that aid and
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: with hopeless. I'm not judging on anyone out Like our
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: kids are always addicted to their phones and looking at
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: their phones, and you take it off them and they
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: steal yours and they run off with it. You never
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: find because as soon as they get their holds on
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: a phone, you know. But yeah, they still. You will
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: be working and you're like I will be on the
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: meeting at four o'clock on talking about what we're doing
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: on the late debate, and you'll be working on your
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: computer and you will look up where you go to
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the toilet and they will just grab your phone and
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: they will bolt up to some room and hide.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I think we've discovered more about the hilde Brand family.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I think that.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Happens to everybody, right. I don't know where one of
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: them is right now, but it just is heard and
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: it's just better to have when you're able to say no,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: you can't do that because it's against the law, and
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: the government says it's right.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: The only reservation I have is it's only just come
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: in and we really haven't seen it work yet.
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: To be harder, at least you're doing something, and that
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: would be my I take your point. But as far
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: as the UK is concerned. Keystarm I think should just
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: ban it and then fix the gaps as he goes along.
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: I mean, because social media is a petri dish for
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: British kids as much as it has been for Australian kids.
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: And then you've got far more sort of areas of
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: Britain which are perhaps are using social media more and
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: don't have the resources or the education or the community
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: support to actually work out what is and what is real.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: So I think you should absolutely go for it, look
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: at what we're doing in Australia and just jump in
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: and ban it for kids in Britain because for me
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: and I know we talked about this show, the benefits
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: so greatly outweigh any risk here kids.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: True, it's just absolutely tight and to be honest, they
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: can still watch YouTube and stuff, they just don't have
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: an account that can be trolled or that can where
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: anyone on the other side of the world.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: They can get awful messages and that kind of thing.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: One place, one area in which the UK is leading
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: us is what we do with kids who have got
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: gender dysphoria. They produced a report called the Cash Report,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: which is a brilliant report looking at the use of
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: puberty blockers and similar drugs on underage children before they
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: reach puberty. Who say no, no, no, I'm in the
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: wrong body. And I'm really confused about this. The report,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: which was done by doctor Hillary Cass is a superb report.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: She's basically saying there's no clinical support for using puberty
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: blockers with children. Forget about that. You should not be
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: doing it. It's dangerous and they've stopped it. It's banned
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: in Britain. Doesn't happen. Queensland has also abandoned. Now the
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory has banned. Leah Finochiiro's government has come out.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: She's very good on a lot of things. She makes
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of sense the senior Ministry of the Northern
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Territory and on this she's coming down where the rest
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: of Australia is so slow. The trans industry is fighting
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: this like crazy. They want to keep giving kids puberty
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: blockers and that kind of thing. I don't understand after
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: the Cash report, I don't understand, after what happened in Britain,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: why anyone is fighting it. And I'm delighted that there's
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: one more territory that's got on board.
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: Yes, Look, I'm anti the blockers because it is you know,
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: it's catastrophic to your fertility, and it's pretty much one
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: way straight once you start on these drugs as well.
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: But I do feel that we have to treat this
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: subject so delicately for young people who do feel trapped
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: in their gender, they can't work out which way they
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: should be living, or they're really troubled. A lot of
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: mental health is shoes. So I think I do think
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: although I support blocking these drugs, I do think we
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: have to look at it holistically for young people and
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: how do we actually support them because a lot of
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: them are intermoil.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Maybe they need at that stage talking therapies rather than
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: powerful drugs which will make them, as you said, infertile.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: I gather it can have an effect on their bones.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: It's a lifelong thing.
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: It is a lifelong thing. I mean, it's I don't
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: know how it sort of balances against actually having surgery,
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: but certainly it is a very deep change to your
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: system and the way you're sort of your physiology and
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: so forth. But I do feel that if they're going
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: to block the drugs, and I'm not a fan of
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: the drugs at all, let's ramp up a support for
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: these young people. Let's really help them because they're obviously
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: navigating a very difficult time in their lives.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bit. I mean, my wife works for
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: a Quality Australia, so as a disclaimer, but they're very obviously,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: very posed to this. But it's really really complex, and
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I've got issues with the way that, you know, the
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: trans lobby or activists have actually been a victim of
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: their own kind of radicalism if you want, and I'm
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: not sure if I want to say victim of their
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: own success, but because there's been such so such pressure
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: to say, you know, if a kid says they're trands,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: you have to believe them, you have to treat them,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: you know, give them gender affirming care. And that means
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: that you know, a kid who is just crying out
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: for attention, a kid who might be autistic and be confused,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: a kid who might just be going through a phase
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: or whatever, kid who might just be good, he knows
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: is gay, knows that they can you know, it knows
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: that they can do that they might they are also
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: you know, there are parents, and we know there are
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: these annoying trendy celebrity parents say oh I know, we're
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: not going to tell our child, you know, that our
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: child's going to grow up gender free and then pick
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: their own gender just for them as nauseating crap. But
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: there are also and I know a lot of them
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: who are dear friends of mine, there are also kids
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: who are absolutely one hundred percent sure that they are
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: born in the wrong body. They know it, like we
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: know that, you know, we have ten fingers and ten
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: times absolutely know it. And the idea of puberty blockers
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: it's not a replacement for surgery. The idea is that
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: that you never have surgery with kids and that you
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: use puberty blockers as a kind of wait and see
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: a pro But they're.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Clearly the point of doctor Hillary Cash's report is they're
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: not working like that, but the long term effects are not.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: That's right, But this is to be done on the back.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: This is meant to have been done on the back
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: of a Queensland review that did not actually find that.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: The Queensland Review actually found there was some limited evidence
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: for their use, but there is not very much, so
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: we need more. And the problem is that often that
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: evidence is manipulated and using football for people either really
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: for it or really.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Against committed sides aren't there so that they're sci that's right.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: So to be honest, ironically, my view is that it's
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: actually better that puberty blockers are if you if you are,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: if you tick off all those boxers and make sure
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: that you are only doing it for the kids who
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: are absolutely convinced and you know and that or every
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: medical professional and their parents and everyone says yes, one
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: hundred percent they are that that would be a case
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: of using puberty blockers as a safe gap to until
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: they turn eighteen or finished going through puberty. You haven't
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: menulated me. It's because if that person grows up in
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: the wrong gence you have, I'm.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Not convinced much it's safe to start fiddling with their
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: bodies when they're still kids. They can't make decisions. I
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: know they think they know what's exactly right, but they
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: really cannot make decisions. Their brains are not old enough.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: At the very least, you say, turn eighteen, become a
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: legal out of.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: It, then you're not listening to the Yeah. But then
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: if they turn eighteen as a man and they know
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: they're a woman, then that's it. You can't really go
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: back after that. You can't know, no amount of surgery,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: except in the most extremely rare case, is actually going
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: to be able to well.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Surgery doesn't actually make make people with x y chromosomes
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: into weeks X chromosomes.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: It doesn't to be able to be able to live
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: So that's it, and people can live like that and
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: know if someone wants to live like that, that's fine.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: It's a free society. But we have to protect children
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: who are not in a condition to make a decision
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: about the rest of their lives from any sort of
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: intervention which will have an effect on the real It
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: is wrang pure bodies are wrong. There's no justification for them.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: They should be stopped, and we have governments that are
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: not strong enough, are not courageous enough to do that
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: because the lobbies are so noisy.
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's such a full issue, and to your point,
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: I hate it when you've got those various camps weaponizing
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: it when in the middle you've got a childho perhaps
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: doesn't really know if they're what a graw up as
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: a male or a female and it feels trapped in
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: the wrong body, and that's not I think it always
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: seems to go to that side of the debate very quickly.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, another burning issue, lithium batteries. This is a bit
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: of a ser Do you know that I was at
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: the movies the other day and you are actually do
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: you know you're not meant to put any batteries at
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: all in the bin, even like the little energizer one
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: double its special binge I've used, so you never put
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: like a no yes at the thin end of the wedge. Anyway,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: This is how it could end up because a truck
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: carrying fifteen tons of lithium ion batteries has caught a
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: light and closed traffic on a major New South Wales highway.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Oh it's in the Guardian. Sorry, it mustn't be true. Okay,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: truck double the little hipsters the Guardian was carrying around
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: fifty batteries weighing three hundred kilograms each and it's b trailer.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I think that's bigger than triple A size. I believe
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: it might be bigger than the D size kilograms. Fire
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: and Rescue New South Wales said they cut off public
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: access for around seven hundred meters around the blaze due
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: to the risk of vapor cloud leaving the major motorway
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: home closed. Motorway home that's my retirement dream closed in
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: both directions over the subsequent six hours. So what are
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: we doing with it?
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: Like, could there be anything more dangerous in your home
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: than a lithium battery at the moment, I mean.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: You've got my wife, but you're right.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Sorry, And they keep saying, be really careful. Don't charge
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: your electric secuter or electric bike in the house. Charge
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: it in the car border of the garage. And there
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: are the risks involved are enormous. I saw a video
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: shot by the New York Fire Department in which they
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: showed how quickly they exploded fire. They just I know.
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: Forensic expert says the same thing. She investigates house fires,
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: and she said nearly all the house fires that she
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: investigates now for insurance company caused by these batteries that
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: she will not have them at her home in a
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: month of Sundays. So dangerous, which is quite handy. I
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: was talking to it because my daughter was flirted with
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: the idea of getting an EE bike. I was able
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: to say, look, no, you'll burn the house down if
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: we get one. But they're very dangerous because they're largely untested.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, so we like to thank chrispyn for in carrying
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: or attack lithium mine back to the side of our house,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: which is inspiring. Now you've been a landlord, haven't you
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: on occasion?
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Were you a nice landlord?
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, of course I'm like in a welcome basket
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: and always gave the bond back. But yeah, I'm interested
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: in this story that we're talking about earlier about a
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: tenant who was fined five hundred dollars because they made
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: the mistake thinking they were doing a nice thing of
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: patching up some chips in the paintwork when they first
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: moved into the house. Now, unfortunately the property manager has
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: taken umbrage of this and stung them five hundred dollars,
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: saying you shouldn't have done it, even though you thought
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: you were trying to make the home look a bit better.
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: But look, I've had experience of being a landlord. Hopefully
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: I was a nice landlord. Another humble brag there, Joe.
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: But at the same time I've also been a tenant
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: who's been dutted out of their bond. Would you believe
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: when we lived in London because a scouring sponge was
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: not replaced as part of the inventry. So there was that,
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: you know how many hundreds of pounds in a bond
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: lurking and the landlord was a vicart. That's really upsetting.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Thing. Possibly, yes, landlords don't do themselves any favors, do they.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I don't get good preach.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: So there was a hole, or there's chips in the wall.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: He fills them up. So he's fixing the wall, and
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: they actually first I think they are going to be
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: held his entire bond. You can see the image of there,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: and there's yeah, fair enough, mate, will reduce it to
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: five hundred bucks.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but I mean it's possible to argue that
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: in fact, they should have gone to the landlord and said,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: this is the problem, you fix it anyway. These people
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: are just such nice landlords. They would never do anything
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: like that. Do prawns have feelings? Have you ever hurt
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: the feelings of a brawn? We'll find out after the break.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: There you are, it's Christmas lunchtime and they're in the
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: middle of the table, the big bowl of prawns, and
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: you're thinking this is fabulous, and you're just about to
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: get stuck into them when you think, hang on, did
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: these broad suffer now apparently there is a possibility that
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: they do. There's a woman, professor Lynne Snedden, from you know,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Sweden's University of Gothenberg, who says that these aquatic animals
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: feel pain. She thinks that they're sentient, they can make
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: decisions things that look they've got tiny little brains. But
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: she's convinced they can feel pain and we should not
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: be treating them as we treat them. We should not
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: be eating them. It's just going to put you off
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: your prawns.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I think the real question here that the university should
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: be studying kel is not do prawns feel pain? But
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: do I give it? Because what's the point? Yeah, animals
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: feel pain? Right whatever people are saying, Oh, no, I'm
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: an ethical eater. You know, I won't eat a cow,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: but I'll eat prawn because the prawn can't feel pain
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: like people. Actually, yes, there are pescatarians, aren't they. I've been,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: you know, I've been to a crustacean killing party where
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: and I don't even eat that. I was just there
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: for the blood bath, not even the.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Food. We don't believe.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: No, it's true, it was that tim I'm going to do.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I'm going to dope you Tim Blair's house, him and
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: gastronomic mate Steve Waterson came up with this great utay.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: They called it Crab Night. It was planned for just
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: months and months and months, and we're going to get
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: a giant a bunch of giants sort of king crabs.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: And apparently they taste better if they're really because very fresh,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: very fresh, and so you keep them alive until the
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: last part of the moment, which is why you have
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: lobsters swimming in the fish bowls in restaurants or whatever.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: And then and then you freeze them and they're really
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: slow and groggy or whatever, and then you had to
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: you have to sort of skewer their brains. You had
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: to stab through their brains between the shells, sort of
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: through their eyes. And I got it. It wasn't pretty.
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: Absolutely not. This is peak overreach. I mean, you can't
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: guilt trip people about eating prawns and eating their Christmas
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: food thing. It's absolutely know where's the actual science behind this?
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: It sounds like someone do the research of this something.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: So he's up a fund on went to the University
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: of Gottenburg in Sweden and didn't look like much chop how.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Much fraun there weren't many prawns there. Talking about other
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: animals who are on it. Australian wildlife, the small fall
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: of the lizards, for example, much desired around the world.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: There's a black market, an animal black market worth about
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: thirty two billion dollars a year. And there's a whole
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: bunch of Australian lizards which are much collective. People can
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: get up to ten thousand dollars for them. So a
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: man named Eric Anne has been jailed over his attempts
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: to smuggle native Australian animals to Asia, and we've got
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: some pictures of the way he was smuggling them in
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: what he was carrying. This has been going on for
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: a long time. It's been going on for decades now.
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: I would think, as you say, they're very lucrative in
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: the in the overseas markers part of the Asian market.
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: But the cruelty to these creatures. You were shoving them
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: inside printers and putting them inside socks.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, he got three D print to print alizard.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: But it's all this is where the expression budget smugglers
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: comes from. The idea that of like wearing his speeders
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: is actually smuggling budgies in the speeders, except for the
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: mate of mine, he said, mate, not budgies, parrots, he said, in.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: My case, python smugglers. But that's a story for another episode.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Joe Hildebrand, Louise Roberts, thank you for your company, and
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: thank you for your company. It's been been a delight
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: to be with you for this first of the summer
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: edition of The Later Bait, and we'll join you tomorrow
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: night again at the same time. Good Night,