Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 154: Freddie Woodword - The Quiet Identity Crisis of an Olympian

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154: Freddie Woodword - The Quiet Identity Crisis of an Olympian · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What did you do?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: As in it's like all right, this is, I'm going to have to stop, so what did you literally do next?
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: So, I had a good friend who also trained in Sheffield, claire Cryan.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: She did a one contract with the Royal Caribbean as a diver, as a performer in their aqua shows.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: So Royal Caribbean's biggest cruise ships have aqua shows like Cirque du Soleil style aqua shows on their ships.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: It's incredible.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, she have aqua shows like Cirque du Soleil style aqua shows on their ships.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: It's incredible.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, she told me about this and she was like Freddie, I think you know, because I was often at training like I was kind of the silly one.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I was always dancing, you know, being kind of goofy, and I also did.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: At that time I was already doing some commentary, some presenting work.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: So I think you know she kind of saw a bit of the, you know, performer in me, let's say, and she's like I think you'd really like it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: And so I thought, well, that sounds great, spend a few months, nine months in the Caribbean diving on a ship.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: That's cool.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I'll go away, I can review my life and then come back, change person and hit the ground running with my next task.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Freddie, welcome to the show.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Great to have you on here, my pleasure.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks for welcoming me.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, brilliant.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I think the reason I was reaching out to you was originally because of it was a post that you were doing on LinkedIn and it was talking about well, actually remembering that achieving the Olympics is a good thing and that just kind of it kind of struck me in a yeah, yeah, we can't forget about that.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: But then also the fact that you were overseas and traveling and getting out and about and I just thought what an interesting backstory.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: It's great to have you on the show with me to chat a bit more about that.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Sure sure?
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm happy to answer all questions and get into the nitty-gritty a bit more.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Well, let's go back to that post, if you remember sending it, and actually I should apologize to listeners because there's going to be both, you from sheffield, me from leeds.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: So as we continue, we're going to sound more and more yorkshire as we go.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I was going to say I've kind of neutralized, but I think, yeah, as I say by the, by the end will be full power yorkshire, let's go.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: It was a long post where you were talking about remembering that you achieved the olympics in the o Olympics.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I can't remember where you came, but 19th, 20th.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: This post?
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, got it and had the conversation around it.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's right.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, sure, well, so that one thing I've been trying to do recently more so is finally tap into my voice right and like my message, because, in all honesty, that was something I was afraid of for a while for various reasons.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe I didn't fully understand the value in it, and also fear of judgment perhaps.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: But anyway, I've been traveling recently and one thing that comes with that is and also you know, transitioning, change of careers and so on.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: So one thing that comes with that is a lot of thinking, a thinking, a lot of downtime, and I've been kind of building up a notion board, a notes written section about just like reflections on diving, and so I've been posting some of those.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: And I think and I one day I was, we were in the Philippines, me and my partner we've been traveling around a lot and we arrived to the hotel quite late, and so I was thinking, oh, I've got a post on LinkedIn today, because it's been a couple of days, and so I've got to get something out there and I just felt like to do it quickly.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: It had to be a post that I was like quite sure of in my head, right, not something that I'd really needed to kind of build out.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It was more.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I've got this because I've been, you know, experiencing this.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I'll just send.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: And I've got this because I've been, you know, experiencing this.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I'll just blah, blah, blah, blah, send.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: And then it ended up doing it's been my most successful post ever.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: So the actual post itself, yeah, it's just, it's a conversation that happens again and again and again, and it's one of the post is sort of something like this Like you know, someone finds out I went to the Olympic Games and they say like, oh, like, oh, wow, that's amazing.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, like which olympics are the rio 2016?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, like which sport?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Diving?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: You know, oh, and where did you come 19th?
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: And and then there's like, oh, oh, cool that you know it's still amazing that you got to go.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: So there was just always this very weird then situation where I think it's mismanaged by me, because I'm kind of like, oh, I have to now tell them that I came 19th and they're, you know, they're thinking, oh, maybe you want a medal as a gold medalist, something.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, ah, 19th.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And then they're like, oh, yeah, well, you know, there's this whole status, games and stuff, right, and people.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: You know, people want to meet an olympian, but they also particularly want to meet a gold medalist right.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: And then maybe there's this like deflation, and then the conversation, and it's just something.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: It was a reflection on this and how it made me, how that conversation always made me uncomfortable.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: So, despite achieving a, you know, a huge goal of mine, which was to compete in the olympic games, I achieved that and I'm super proud of it.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: But I wasn't, for whatever reason, I wasn't able to just take that and be completely satisfied with that and I let my insecurity around what others might think of me imposter syndrome, kind of stuff and I let that shape how I communicate to people.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And and then, you know, then there's this.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: There'd be this other thing where I'm trying to justify like I came but I was like one point off the semi-final, and then if you make the semi-final, then you, you know, you start from zero again and anything can happen.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: And the guy who beat me was olympic champion from london.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: You know all these kind of excuses, but I but I promise I was it.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: You know all these kind of excuses, but I but I promise I was.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: It was, you know, still a good performance.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I promise.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So you know really, this really kind of laughable conversation and and I just found myself in that all the time and what, and this was I struggled with that whilst I was still competing and also, and then subsequently and everything.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: And I mean I'll be honest, in some ways I still have this issue and it's two things.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: It's mostly it's like my own problem, really.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: I think I have to learn how to completely own that conversation yeah, well, that's right.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Well, it's.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: It sort of comes to me straight away which is you felt that they cringed.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I wonder how many people did they really cringe?
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Was everyone actually deflatedlated, or was it you?
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Do you think it was still you projecting this sense of oh, but actually it is a good thing.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the honest truth and this is why I don't want it to come across as an attack on other people, because it's completely human nature, I think, to respond in that way and I think it's my responsibility to shape it Like you said.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I think because, like you said, I think, because I have my own uncertainties and insecurities, that they can probably sense them, and so I think I'm the biggest culprit there, 100%.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Sometimes there are people just being a bit ignorant and, you know, not really thinking about what they're saying and they're just like you know, I've had some comments from some people you know, once you know someone on the cruise ship so I worked for Royal Caribbean as a high diver some some comments from some people you know.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Once you know someone on a on the cruise ship so I worked for royal caribbean as a high diver and someone was talking to me about my career and I get very excited that I'm a, that I'm going to the olympics, but then they say, oh well, where did you?
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Did you medal?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I said no and it's like, oh well, I guess that explains why you're here.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Then you know, so very stupid comments like that, yeah yes, okay, got it mate.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not as funny as perhaps it sounded in their head.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I would say I'm somewhat there with you, right, because initially, certainly for me.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: And it was, oh, you're a professional footballer, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, who did you play with?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: How long did you play with?
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: How long did you play in the Premier League?
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Did you play for your country?
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, none of that.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there were 92, maybe 100 professional football clubs in England.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, huddersfield.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: And it's like, oh right, so not in the Premier League, no, and then it's a case of, oh, that's why you're working, that's.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I said, yeah, partly.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, thanks a lot.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm with you, I get it.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that sense at times where saying I mean I would love to have gone to the Olympics, just to.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: In fact, did you make the opening ceremony?
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Did you go to the opening ceremony?
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: No, we weren't allowed.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: No, our team manager, performance director, deemed it a not you know, not the best.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, preparation, preparation, there you go, yeah, because what I was going to say is like you've got opening ceremonies, you've got the village, you've got that life, you've got actually the whole.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: We've had a couple of athletes who have spoken about, and I guess in diving, like in swimming, where you sort of walk out and your name's called and you're like, geez, this is me and I just for me, that's the moment that I never had as a okay, as a player, you walk out the tunnel.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: But there was for me this magic of the Olympics of sort of walking out, and that's what I dreamed of didn't achieve it.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: So I'm actually so I'm jealous of you.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I think it's absolutely great.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess I want to come back to to sort of we'll come back to how you're dealing with it and what and what it actually means, because I'm curious now to just get a bit of your backstory.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: So what, what actually drew you into diving in the first place?
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Sure, I was very fortunate, actually.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Well, so I went to school in Sheffield and Sheffield has Ponds Forge it's this big leisure center but it's got a very good swimming facility, very good diving pool and at this time UK sport was really pushing to bring youngsters into sport, but always with the elite focus, so with the goal to be to improve Great Britain's standards in the Olympic game.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And it worked because if you look at London, rio, tokyo, great Britain's results are incredible and certainly if you compare to previous Olympic games.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: So the funding that went into sport, into grassroots sport there something I'm very grateful for and it really did work.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: But anyway, we have the diving center in Sheffield, so that's where they put some money into.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: They test lots of kids around sheffield.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: They tested, if my memory served me correctly, about 2 000 kids across the city.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: From there they created a squad of 30 kids.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I was one of them and then we were kind of thought okay, we've chosen you, if you want to like be then a part of this program, come and join.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: And and we knew the mission really was from day one like this wasn't for fun, it was to sort of try and international Olympic standard etc.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so I was super lucky and I very quickly connected with it.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: I had very strange coordination as a child.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: So like kicking a football, for example, was something I wasn't very good at, although, funnily enough, around eight or nine it kind of clicked.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: And then I mean, not that I was good, but like the coordination kind of came, but it took me ages to like figure out.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Like ball sports, it was weird.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: So I was very interested in gymnastics, naturally, and so I was doing a bit of trampolining.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I was doing I wanted to start gymnastics.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And then this Sheffield Diving Club comes along and says we're testing for diving.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: You know, if you get through our test, we'll offer you a spot in this squad.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, I want to do it, I want to be on that team, that sounds cool.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it wasn't this, you know deep philosophical decision.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: They just showed up and I was like that sounds cool, I want to do it.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: And then, being kind of competitive, so that was where, within a year, I was doing five, six days a week, and this is at eight years old.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: It was very quickly right, okay, you're in.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go Right.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, so did you even have time for other sports?
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Not really.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Before I started I was doing a bit of trampolining, I was doing a bit of cross-country running, I was doing a bit of cricket and I wasn't that focused, if I'm completely honest, and so I was quite happy to really drop all of those.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: So I didn't really do anything else.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I was playing the drums as well and I kind of wanted to continue that, but I actually pulled that out because I was missing a night's training to do like my drum lessons, and so I stopped that and this is kind of funny.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: It's a bit of a like a tangent.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: This is something I've been thinking about recently.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I think the focus on on sort of excellence is obviously important, but I actually think that doing other sports would have benefited me in the long run.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I think that would be what I would.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I think my immediate progress as a youngster would have been I mean, this is kind of theoretical, obviously, but this is the way I think about it now I think my progress in the short term would have been slower, but I think maybe late teens there'd probably be this acceleration because you've got these suddenly.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: You're then able to combine all these different kind of motor skills from different things and you'll have an even better understanding of your body.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, diving is highly technical, so it has to be started from a young age, or you have to be doing gymnastics.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: It's not, for example, in your case.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I would say that as even as a very successful athlete and a well-rounded athlete because footballers have to be right You've got to be.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: There's lots of skills going on there and physical attributes and everything.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: However, it's very different to diving.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: So if you'd have started diving at, say, 20 plus, I think, even though you're a high functioning athlete again, this is just my theory, but I think your chances of becoming excellent at diving are very low.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: But if you've done gymnastics or trampoline, something like that, something acrobatic, you can transfer very effectively.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: But it is one of those sports that requires specialization from a young age and adding other things to that, I think, would create like a more rounded athlete as well.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: That's just a theory anyway yeah, well, I think it's a.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: To me it's a good theory, it's a good hypothesis to take into it, because I think for many we do talk about being well, all-rounded athletes does certainly help, and so doing and being multi-sport can bring along additional attributes such as hand-eye coordination, foot-eye coordination, spatial awareness, all depending on the different types of, I guess, sports that you're doing, and I guess what you're talking about is, yes, there's a lot of acrobatic, there's a lot of physical, technical strengths or technical ability that's required in diving.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: However, what you're saying is perhaps spatial awareness when you're up three meters, five meters, ten meters.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Would playing an overhead game or some description of helped in that instance or something along those lines.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, neither of us are the professors here, but I'm going to say I agree with you and I should ask chat, gpt and perplexity to come in and help us out here.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say there's some grounding in that from a sport perspective, but then also, I say the same comes outside of sport.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: So, whilst, as you said, an initial focus on a specific speciality in science, in academics or something like that, definitely in the short term helps you, but then, as your career develops and as you're able to bring in different influences and different things around you, then suddenly you will accelerate much faster than if you were just focused on one one thing for that whole part of your career.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I totally agree.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's the exact same kind of comparison really, and that's part of where the you know, part of where the theory comes from and you know that's that's something that has then troubled me as the transition there, you know the the athlete transition sort of comes along, because I felt very one-dimensional.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I know I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, but yeah it, it sort of I struggled to realize.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, sport gives you a wealth of different skills.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: It's not, it's not just like I can dive.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: There's obviously so much more that it gives you.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: But it's also hard to realize that because a lot of that are a lot of those things are soft skills.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: So I it's hard to really understand and realize your full value, I think, as an athlete, and particularly something like diving, where you know one of the difficulties with diving is it's hard to build a career out of it, but also, unless you're fully focused on it, it's hard to also be very successful.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: So you know you take someone like like tom daly, huge success obviously, and, uh, you know, phenomenal athlete.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Phenomenal, I'm gonna say, entrepreneur, like everything, phenomenal person.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: His documentary obviously came out recently, you know, wonderful, but he's an anomaly right, and so he was able I mean his performances, yes, were right at the top, and alongside that he was able to develop his personal brand and capitalize on the attention and so on create businesses and opportunities.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: He did very well at that.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So, if you're, there's a few other divers in the UK who have done similar things, not to Tom's level, but you know they've won Olympic medals and so their sponsorship is good.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: They've got very good careers right.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Whereas I came 19th in the Olympics, if I'd have been a smarter businessman, opportunist, I could have probably created a business opportunity out of that, but that requires me to be either to have an exceptional mentor or to have exceptional skills.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Still, you know juggling, the diving and everything which is you know.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: How can I be expected to necessarily just know that?
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: yeah, in many respects, what you're saying is the.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: In fact, there's more than actually just results, and it's very difficult when you're chasing, when you're striving to be the very best.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: That's what you're focused on and that's where you're driven.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: And but even when you're there and look, the whole reason in many respects, why I started this podcast 150 odd episodes ago, was because even those athletes who reach it to the top aren't aware of their personal brand, aren't aware of how this actual opportunity that they have right now it is possible to build that into something that can support them Well for the rest of their life, but certainly forward.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And exactly, yeah, I think you're quite right.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Would it have been fair?
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: And I don't, and I don't think there was an expectation for a young athlete to be thinking that whilst trying to perform no, and again, I don't want to, I don't want to say sort of outsource my responsibility, because ultimately it's my responsibility.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: But I think one thing, you know, I've been thinking about the this a lot recently and I think one thing that really would have helped me is having a mentor to help with that.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Because you know, again, diving, so all the people around me, you had tom at one end who, okay, you know, in some ways it's an incredible example, but you know, to me it's like well, he's out of my league, like how do I?
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I can't emulate him, I don't have the profile that he has.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: So let's forget about Tom.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of my peers around me.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: You know we're all kind of kind of similar.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: What we know best is diving.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: We're not, you know, no one's really pushing any sort of really interesting entrepreneurial boundaries particularly, and so on.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: And again, diving, stressing entrepreneurial boundaries particularly, and so on.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: And again, diving, really it's actually.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: You know, it's an amateur sport, it's not professional.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: You know we're not.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I was funded by the UK lottery funding to dive and the odd thing around that, but it's not.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: You know, you're not paid by a league or a club to perform.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: We don't have that and so if you want to dive full time in the UK, make a career out of that I mean, and we're lucky enough, we have the lottery funding you can create a full-time career.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: So you know, a lot of countries don't have that.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: But again, it's not a sport.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: It's not, like, you know, football or basketball or volleyball in Europe, for example, where you've got these leagues, that so you can become like a career athlete.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: It's different to that because, yeah, it's amateur and again, diving at least.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Back then the sponsorship opportunities seemed more difficult.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Again, this might just be, I just wasn't very good at it, but you know probably Social media, since you'll have stopped competing and that profile would have reduced.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: The rise of social media has created opportunities for athletes I'm going to say elite athletes or athletes performing at the elite level can now be much more aware and it's much simpler to get that endorsement, that sponsorship, those followers.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: That has definitely shifted.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: But I'm interested given you were able to be a full-time athlete, what support did you have around that?
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: You said you needed a mentor.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: What support did you have around that brand and around even what follows being an Olympian?
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Not a lot, if I'm honest.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I don't want this to come across as a complaint.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: There were lots of very well-meaning sort of people around who you know would try to support.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: There were some initiatives.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: There was sometimes workshops, sometimes events like post-transition athlete transition events, but most of the things that you could speak to there were just kind of companies looking for relatively low-level salesmen or you know, or sometimes financial positions where they were looking to hire athletes and you know, or sometimes financial positions which, where they were looking to hire athletes and you know, these things didn't really speak to me.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I think really now looking, looking back, like entrepreneurship and also, you know, content creation and using trying to build my personal brand and keeping that kind of almost performance going, let's say, you know, I think that's actually very suited to what I want to do and my goals, but I was very afraid of that.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: So I think what I, what I would have wanted, is someone to say like you know, look like Freddie, I know you're kind of like you think everything's going to work out and it will, and do yourself a favor and take this seriously.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: This is right.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give you, you know, this framework and I want you to do like these three things by you know the next two weeks, and then let me know and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because really I was just completely freestyling everything and in hindsight, when I was training full time, it was the perfect time to be, you know, building other opportunities, doing other things, because so I didn't go to university.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: What made it the perfect time for, whilst you were competing at that level, what made that the perfect time to start creating something else?
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's because you have to have downtime in as an athlete.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: So it's one of the things that that is good about sport.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I mean it's actually coached into you.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: You know, sleep, resting, recovery very important and so you have like your day off, like that was a Sunday, and whilst you're away from training, you're not training.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: So and you and you accept that and so you've got all the time.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: But the issue with me is, as I said, I chose, and I chose not to do university and I mean I'm happy with that decision.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying I regret that, and even more so now, looking back, I can be even more happy with that decision, if I'm completely honest and that might be a little controversial.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Still, I'm not sure.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I love a bit of controversy.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Tell me why didn't you go to university and what makes you happy now that you didn't?
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't go because I wasn't sure on exactly what or why I wanted to go and I had a concern that going would hinder my goal of making it to the Olympic Games.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: That was the only thing at that time in my life that I was sure about, that I wanted to.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't actually about the Olympics, it was I want to go as far as I think I can go in this sport and do.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I believe right now that university is going to help me do that.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: And my decision at that time was no, I was relatively good in school.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: You know my I didn't have an issue with grades, you know, fortunately, and I had some, you know some half-decent university offers.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: But, okay, I go and study mechanical engineering and then, yeah, and then you know then what sort of thing yeah interesting.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: So why don't you regret that decision?
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: so I I had a chip on my shoulder for years about that 100 like when people again people asking oh, you didn't go to university, like no, and this feeling of oh does that make me, does that like?
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Does that show that I'm like stupid or and I'm not?
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not claiming that it does, I'm just saying like this was my internal dialogue telling that to me and I was like maybe, oh, maybe I'm no.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't go to uni and then like, well, you know well, what did you do?
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I trained full time and, you know, for a lot of that I was living with my mom and you know blah, blah, blah.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: So I carried a chip on my shoulder about it, but I, I don't know.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I just think now, unless you have a very specific goal of a career that you want to go into you know, I speak to all my friends and almost none of them tell me the value they got out of university other than meeting people.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: I think, from that side, it's a great opportunity and when you're unsure of what you want to do in your life which I think most 18 year olds are, it is a good thing to do if you don't have another option.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: But in terms of education, you know, skill acquisition, knowledge acquisition, all of these things I genuinely don't think it's the best use of your time now.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: And obviously, with AI becoming better and better and better and almost all knowledge work at risk of, you know, being completely automated and ai done in the relatively near future.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I think that just says to me even more that you know that the important thing to do now is to I don't know.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: You've got to take the the different path you know.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Build your personal brand, make yourself valuable, rather than trying to become a lawyer, because it's you know.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I mean maybe you can sort of oversee something, but you're not.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: You know that position isn't going to be this, it's not going to exist in the same way it's all going to be very different.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: So that comes down to, for you know, a playback.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: What I heard is for you, certainly at 18, dream olympics I'm going to the olympics couldn't see what benefit there would be for doing a degree or going to university and and doing something, because you didn't have actually any other career in mind.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: It was I'm a diver and I'm going as far as I can.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: As you look now and you think and you're saying to yourself well, actually, if university was supposed to be, or is supposed to be, about knowledge and skill acquisition, there are other ways of gaining that knowledge and developing those skills to help progress you in, certainly in the future of the current and the you know near-term future that we can foresee.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: There are different ways of developing that knowledge and building your skill yeah, completely.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I think that's.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's a great summary and it's maybe I didn't realize this fully at the time, but it was probably had this kind of underlying belief that if sorry, sorry again, might slightly controversial, but if you, by going to university and doing a degree you know, I said mechanical engineer and by doing that, I just feel like you've just kind of put yourself in the machine and of train people up to do this work and then like let them keep doing that work, and I feel like I kind of had this resistance to that and maybe to doing something that almost everyone else was was doing and how you know.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: But then I still felt the size of the societal pressure and thanks, granddad for, you know, trying to push me to to go, you know.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: So you don't regret it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: So at the moment, your view is, if I can say it this way, well, you don't regret it.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: So at the moment, your view is, if I can say it this way, we don't hold regret for not going, because the development of knowledge, that skill acquisition, could be done different ways.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: And, as you look at this future, it is very much about where you can see a future, where it's the individual, the personal brand, and use of technology, use of AI as a way to support that future, to move you forward.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Those are the skills that you need to develop, or one should develop yes, exactly that's what I think, so I think I believe more and more now, and also, I wasn't.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: I say this, though, and my I didn't do enough, like I should have done more when I was diving full-time, when I was working on the ship.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I should have done more of this to prepare myself for the future so then it comes to the question of, well, more of what is it that one should do to build that knowledge, to develop the skills?
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: What's your perspective?
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: How are you doing it?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: So I think that learning is an independent exercise.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Now I think that's probably how we all, how a lot of us, learn best.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, some groups of it is fine, but what I mean is you figuring out what it is you want to learn and then going out there with the internet and now with the power of ai and finding courses and things that, independently, you want to study, and you study on your own time and in your own ways.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: You know you're not in a classroom of however many people or in a lecture hall with 300 students and there's just one lecturer, just.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I know that's not everyone's experience, but you know I'm just and I'm completely generalizing this, but I guess it's actually really interesting.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: My wife, she's re-qualified as a teacher, my brother re-qualified as a teacher.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: My dad hold on.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: All my family become teachers in later life seems right.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: My mother-in-law is.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And what's actually fascinating there?
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Just listening to you about that knowledge being an individual sport or an individual pursuit and we'll refine it another time but knowledge been an individual pursuit, where sort of you as the individual now can pick and choose, and I guess technology has given us that opportunity to do that.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: It does remind me of these different teaching methodologies, that that are child-led, where you allow the child to explore, to play, to discover, and that's a more natural and engaging way for them to learn.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: And you know again, you know we're talking about our perspectives here.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Neither of us are qualified truly in this, but we get in a sense that, oh well, maybe that's actually okay, and the number of people who learn stuff from YouTube right now probably is testament to the fact that it can work.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: You know, to a point yeah, well, well, exactly, and I think, especially with how quickly the world is changing now, how can a university course be prepared for what's happening with ai and everything?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I just think it takes it takes too much time, and yeah, and I just think it takes it takes too much time, and yeah, and I just think there's also so many skills that you can't really what I'm kind of learning for myself now is like how bad I am at so many things and how really I think the only way to sort of get better at that is to just do it.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I think the honest truth is I was so afraid of this.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: As an athlete I felt like sport was my big thing, sport was like the hard thing I was accomplishing in my life.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And then after that I kind of just sort of diminished my mindset to like, well, that's my like difficult thing, and now I like I just have to sort of figure the rest out.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's sort of on the way down.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I had this mindset.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess it it's.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: It's on a point where you're saying I'll get the quotes wrong, but it's.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Should you accept?
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Should you, as you, freddie, accept that the best thing you're going to do in your life ended when you were 23?
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: So was 23 the best time of your life?
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, I love the way you've framed and phrased that because I think, when you know, when you hear it like that, it's obviously ridiculous.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: But I, honestly, I really believe that because it's like I was, I was special and you had a lot of attention around it and and everyone you know always talked about, you know, me being the diver and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and events and parties or whatever, like I was, you know, introduced as like Freddie the diver and people would be excited to ask me about those things and you know, and that I mean that was a privilege.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: But I really built up this thing of, yeah, this, this is my big thing.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: But so there was an issue in my mindset.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: So I didn't have, I had a bit of a the term is a growth mindset, right, I guess and I was sort of the opposite to that outside of diving.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, this is, I can't be excellent at anything else because I'm now, you know, yeah, I'm into my mid-twenties and I had and you've got to be excellent, you have to do it.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: When you're a child, I kind of had this belief.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Even if that's true, how did that serve me?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: It didn't at all, and so you know, maybe that sentence is true when you're referring to sport.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: So can I be as good in a different sport now as I was in diving?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Probably not, but also I mean, who knows, it's not impossible.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: But I think Tim Ferriss isn't he trying to do some kind of?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: He's trying to do some archery challenge or something.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: I jumped to michael jordan and uh, yeah, actually well yeah.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: However, however, even michael jordan I should qualify that michael jordan went from arguably the best player of all time and commercially successful athlete of all time to actually a really good, significantly better than average professional baseball player, right, so you still got this view of okay, well, yeah, that was his peak, but he came down.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: However, I think you know one of the bits that you're saying really is if you have a growth mindset, does that mean you always have a growth mindset?
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: And which means so, as you left diving, where you need a growth mindset, which is you need to be a millimeter better, right for every dive, you know it's that type of margin.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: And then it's going and doing something else and going oh no, I'm rubbish at this actually, nope, can't do it.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: So for you, it's been flicking that switch that says now I've had a growth mindset before.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Surely, how do I get my growth mindset back?
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: exactly.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: And that's it, because the truth is I was.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I knew what I'd put in to get myself to that point in diving and I think I was afraid of sort of recommitting that to something else.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: You know that I was like wow man, you know, so to have to continue in this like trajectory, like that means I've got to like keep doing that for the rest of my life.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: So you know, there was a part of me that really thought like that.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: So I was actually, if I'm being completely honest to myself, really it was kind of lazy thinking.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: It was like oh well, you know, I can relax a bit, I'm outside of this high stakes environment now, I can just like chill out a little bit.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: But you know, that's just not.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I wasn't being honest to myself about, you know, what's actually important.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Again as well.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: It's defining that success and we should at least, you know, touch on when we're talking about those highs and I know we use Michael Jordan as a global example and that's more perhaps the nature of the sport, the commerciality of it.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: You went to the Olympics, you're the commerciality of it, you went to the olympics, you're a commonwealth medalist, you're multiple, you're the best at diving in britain multiple times.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I mean that that's kind of cool, right.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: And so being freddie the diver, it's very easy to say well, of all of the school friends and my school friends, friends and family, if any of them dive, sense of the word, you'd beat them.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: That's very good.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And especially being in an individual well, I know some are synchronized, but when it's a single person diving, I have to assume because you know I've never been a champion in, certainly in an individual sport like that, where it's like, geez, I'm okay, good that you've got a team, hopefully, you know you recognize coaches and stuff like that, but it's like I've done it, boom, it's me, wow, I'm number one.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: That must feel quite special, I think it does.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: And when it goes well, the, the, the feeling of elation, I think after a good diving performance is is crazy Cause I think a lot of that is relief.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: It's relief coupled with the, with the joy of and the like yes, like you know, winning or doing really well, coupled with, oh, thank goodness it's over.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: And I mean, I think, a story to sort of to give an example of this.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I remember, you know, you mentioned team and I remember being in the athletes village in Rio in Brazil and we had Team GB tower, so this entire like tower block was only Team GB athletes and I'm stood on our balcony, which kind of overlooks like the sort of main area of the athletes village, and I see the women's hockey team leaving team gb tower to get on a bus or whatever go to competition training.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Not sure I honestly, this was fairly early on in the games.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking, oh, I wish I was in a team because I was about to go and dive into individually and I had all this anxiety, like if you mess up, like that's just on you, there's no one else to support you to, you know, and there's no.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And diving is a few seconds of performance and then a big delay, and then a few seconds and a big delay.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: So it's very high pressure and it's all in very short bursts.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: So it's hard to get into a flow.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: And yeah, as I say, there's no other team, there's a team of friends and support staff 100%.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: But in the competition, like it's just down to you.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: So you're right, like the highs of that can be epic, but also you know, the anxiety around that is powerful also.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: So what made you walk away from diving?
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: There was a few things.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: One thing is I was obviously very proud of making the Olympic team and so actually my goal after Rio was to go to Tokyo and to try and make the Olympic final.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: So that would be, you know, top 12 in the world, and I was, you know, hoping for that or more.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: That was my goal and the big difference that I saw to me at that time and the top six in the world was mostly down to strength, so actually, like the height that I could get off the diving board and therefore, you know, so I was doing some of the most difficult dives, but, like you know, my height wasn't the same, or I needed the perfect takeoff to get them, whereas, you know, the strongest guys, if the even if the takeoffs not great, which happens all the time they were still able to make it round.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: So I saw that as a big disadvantage.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: So I went on a huge kind of strength training mission and got a bit carried away and you know I had seriously affected the tendons in my knees from just basically doing too much squatting and deadlifting and not enough rest and too much diving, just everything, and so, like I couldn't push anymore, I had to stop training in the gym.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: You know, even even like just sitting down, I couldn't't go to the cinema because I couldn't have my knees bent for longer than five minutes without them just sort of like throbbing.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: So this obviously slowed down my progress.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I wasn't really enjoying it because I was still in Sheffield, I was still at the same club, which I loved, but I just felt like my world was just very small and so and I was having these injury issues and other divers honestly were in the UK, were leveling up more than I was, and so it actually just felt like this period of I just don't think I want this anymore, like that I've achieved my goal, like I've kind of gone beyond that and, if I'm completely honest, I didn't feel like I wanted to to commit what it would have taken to maybe say, win an Olympic medal, like at that point, knowing what it would have taken from me and knowing like, but actually I was more than happy with what I achieved.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I thought what's more important for me right now is to do something else rather than commit, let's say, 12 years maybe or eight years I'm not sure to try and you know, one-up my current status right and it just didn't seem, I wasn't willing to make that trade.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think at that time Again, if diving had been a different sport, where it was more of a career, you know, if it wasn't just about like these four-year cycles, you know, maybe that would have been different.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: But what did?
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: you do as in.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: It's like all right, this is, I'm gonna have to stop, so what did you like literally do next?
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: So?
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I had a good friend who, who also trained in sheffield, claire crying, she did a one contract with the royal caribbean as a as a diver, as a performer in their aqua shows.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: So Royal Caribbean's biggest cruise ships have aqua shows like Cirque du Soleil style aqua shows on their ships.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: It's incredible.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, she told me about this and she was like Freddie, I think you know, because I was often at training like I was kind of the silly one.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I was always dancing, you know, being kind of goofy, and I also did.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: At that time I was already doing some commentary, some presenting work.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: So I think you know she kind of saw a bit of the you know, performer in me, let's say, and she's like I think you'd really like it and so I thought, well, that sounds great, spend a few months, nine months in the Caribbean diving on a ship.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: That's cool.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I'll go away, I can, you know, review my life and then, you know, come back a changed person and hit the ground running with my next task.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: I went there, I did zero research.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I actually thought the show would be a bit lame, if I'm honest.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I just want to show up.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I'm going to turn up in Miami to this rehearsal period and just see what happens.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: That was kind of funny anyway, because I happen to be the only non-Russian speaking male in our team and I showed up with you know, these, like all these European guys and I'm this like young, like like animated English guy, and they're like, who is this man?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that needs to be edited out, but I'm sure one of your, one of your friends or diving colleagues was exactly like that, so there's an impersonation of him.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So it's fine, it's good yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Well, and our performance director was Russian actually is Russian still, so, anyway, and so I got there and I actually I was and then I we did the rehearsals.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: It was amazing in this international team, like wow, actually this is so cool Became very close with the Eastern Europeans eventually and and then got to the ship and I watched the show for the first time.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: That was the oldest show they had at that time I think there was three and this was the oldest, so it was the worst.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: And I was like this is insane, this is amazing.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: I'm about to do that, like what it blew me away.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: And then I, you know, I did it.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: I loved it.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: The other cool thing with the show is you, they have high diving, so you know that's like a different, it's like regular diving, but you have to land feet first because it's too high to land like hands first.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: So that was like a new skill, how developing that and it was cool doing a lot of dancing, like other things in the show some like harnessed aerial stuff, like very, very cool and I remember having this feeling of like, oh, this actually feels more like me than the competitor actually so more like you, the performer.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: You're more yeah, you're ready for performance, or?
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: yeah, I don't think I could say that unless I'd have had that athlete journey.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I think it was a real breath of fresh air being in a team where me performing well directly benefited every other person in the team.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: There was no you know so sure.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I wanted to have my moment where, like, people are like Whoa, that guy was cool, sure Like, but nevertheless me being cool there, that only benefits everyone else.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And so it was this real team thing and there was this like real solidarity in that and these people from all over the world and that was so amazing and so I enjoyed that so much and I enjoyed like diving specifically for other people's entertainment and I guess sport is kind of like that, but in your mindset it's like no, this is just like sport, is like my journey, it's a competition.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: It's your.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: You are competing to win something, whereas this was you were performed previously.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: It was a competition here.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: You were entertaining.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and so you'd have 800 people on their feet after a show every night, like applauding you.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: You're like sick this is great.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you should have been there in the crowd well, I mean, that's that's true, though actually you know that's because that's something in in a lot of sports, I think, you know, you, you don't actually experience too much like that was my.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: You know that was my crowd moment, but the cool thing about it was I couldn't really do anything wrong, almost, whereas you know that's what you get both sides, don't you?
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: yeah, that's right.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is interesting, but it also sounds like you.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: You kind of stumbled upon it, you didn't.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: You went, a friend told you, a friend recommended that you would probably enjoy, uh, dancing and jumping around in a harness bit of diving in there, but traveling around.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: They knew you well yes, they turns out they knew me well.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, we actually went to the same junior school.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: She was part of the same tested group originally as well, so you know a really really cool story actually.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, no, no, it's true, I absolutely stumbled on that so you've described how you enjoyed that performance side.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: There's an obvious link between I'll ask, I'll say and how did being a world-class diver support you in that job?
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Clearly, the technical side of it was there.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: In fact.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: What else did you have to learn to be successful in that role?
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: so I mean a lot of things.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Actually, they hire people if you're proficient in your discipline, that's the most important thing.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: But what they would do is they would ask you know, they would ask you to send in, like they would give you a video of some choreography and you would have to then like, just do your.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: It didn't have to be perfect, but you have to like show that you could watch that and pick it up and then do some level of it.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Because actually the way that Royal Caribbean developed, they kind of started to create their own style, like a bit more separate from Cirque du Soleil, where, where Cirque du Soleil is very like act focused, like discipline focused, so like now it's trapeze and like now it's fast track and now it's slack line, for example, whereas in Royal Caribbean they started creating a system where it's more like most of the cast are on stage for most of the time, kind of, and so that would include choreography, it might include doing stuff with lights, it might include doing stuff with lights, it might include aerial things.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: So that was so cool and there's lots of moments in the show where you you know we had to all do scuba, because you're like hidden underwater on air to then do some kind of reveal or so you know these are kind of surprise moments but it's, it's that showmanship.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: So you know that's it's a big struggle for a lot of athletes actually, even though you're a performer in some way.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: But you have to then become, you know, a show person and be very willing to.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: You know, look the audience in the eye and you know be there.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: And so what's funny is you have in the cast on a lot of the Royal Ships you'd have dancers, you'd have synchronized swimmers, you would have maybe some slackliners and some acrobats and some other people.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Divers have maybe some slackliners and some acrobats and some other people.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Divers were often famously like the, the people with the two left feet more often, uh, which is probably funny.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I can imagine that actually, but yeah so, yes, it sounds like you perhaps were either an anomaly or you didn't care yeah, yeah, pretty much, pretty much.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: So I think I was a bit of, I was a bit more of a rarity where I actually kind of loved that and I'd done some.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: One of the things that I did away from sport actually, like in Sheffield, was like salsa dancing and, you know, kizomba, and so that was like one of the things I did to, like, you know, take my mind off diving.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: So I I really liked that, so it kind of complemented well.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there's a there's a real skill for being on stage and I'd experienced that a bit already.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: You know, with being a diver it's a different stage, but but then also, you know, commentary some presenting, you know, to performance, you're on stage.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: So those things helped.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: But then it was another progression to actually, you know, be that kind of performer, uh as, and I really enjoyed that.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: How long were you there and to what extent does your role change in, you know, as part of that team?
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: So I mean that's a good question because eventually that that became the issue.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: So I started off as a diver and then, after a contract, a couple of contracts, I got a high diver position.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: So one of my problems with the ships is they're very hierarchical.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: It's this marine environment where the captain is the boss of your town, right, and I mean they need order because also, every crew member has a safety responsibility, but that meant it's actually very regimented.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: And then you have strike systems where you're allowed, you have this cabin, but this person has this cabin and you're allowed to go to this restaurant, but they're not.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: You know these kind of nasty things that it really, you know, status is is a game that everyone plays and it's, you know, it's, it's obviously it's rife in like in the world, right, you can't really get a, you can't really get away from it.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: But on the ship, ship is like even worse, because it's like you know literally people.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: You know, oh, he's got three stripes, right, oh, you know, and she, oh, and she like she's got three and a half, like whoa, um, so that was one thing I didn't yeah, yeah, what does the captain have?
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Five, uh, one person with five off, and then you know one or two with four, and then it just, you know, but I got a promotion to a high diver and that was like gained me up, like this whole status.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Then it just, you know, but I got a promotion to a high diver and that was like gained me up, like this whole status level and like the, you know, the, the cabin's better, and but the big thing is it was, you know, I was doing something new for me, it was a new challenge and it was it's the high dive in the show is this big moment.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Obviously, you know, and it's the high dive platforms are for Royal Caribbean.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: It's just, you know, if you've not seen it, I would like you know, go and watch some clips on YouTube from aqua shows from Royal Caribbean.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Like it's really cool.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: So to have done that was amazing.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: And then I did that.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Well, there was also a hiatus during COVID where obviously no cruise ship operated for a while.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: I came back to it because, you know, I met my partner there and so she's a Japanese artistic swimmer.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Because you know I met my partner there and so she's a Japanese artistic swimmer, so we were in the same shows and so, you know, we wanted also we wanted to work together again.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: So we came back to after COVID, we did three or four more contracts and you know I had this high diver position and so for a while that was really really cool and with my partner I loved the show.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: But eventually you know the ship, you know the ship, the ship, life maybe takes its toll a little bit.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: You know you're confined really to a boat and you know, anytime you're on land you have to be back by 4 30 pm because the ship's going to leave.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: So that took its toll.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: And then also I I couldn't progress any higher than I was within the.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: The cast team, like the high diver was, was, you know, on sort of equal footing with the other kind of highest positions, let's say, you know, I mean it's arbitrary, but it's the way it was looking for the challenge.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: You were looking for another, a challenge yes, exactly did you explore anything else on the ship?
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: where I think where I've made the mistake is I've always been interested in other things, and so I.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: A lot of that was music, languages, but what I never did was look at things from like a business mindset.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: So I was always doing activities that interested me, which, I mean, that's not a bad thing to do, right, but I wasn't building a long-term strategy for how I could I don't know, you know, maybe monetize my interest or work on something that could give me an income outside of diving.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: And again, the ship was an even better environment to do that, other than the fact that the internet connection is not good and expensive.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: That's the problem actually.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: So that made personal development kind of hard.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I chose, but there was, you know, there were lots of instruments lying around and I bought like a little like trunk, like acoustic bass, guitar and you know stuff like that, and I was studying Japanese and blah, blah, blah through books, and so I was doing that, but I didn't have this plan.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but OK, when I finish I'm going to like, execute this, I'm going to build this business.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: So, almost a year ago to the day, me and my partner, we finished our contract and you know, it finished in a bit of a weird way.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: You know, finished our contract and you know it finished in a bit of a weird way.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: You know, we weren't quite happy with, like, how it ended and we just made this very snap decision, both of us like we're done, that's it, no more, but without a plan.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: And so I yeah, I think a lot of people will be like you're crazy, because everyone's advice is, you know, if you're, if you're trying to set up a business or something you know, wait till you've got you know, up a business or something you know, wait till you've got, you know, three months worth of income.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: That's like the same level as your salary or more.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: You know this, this kind of like good, you know good plan kind of concepts Well, yes, exactly, and obviously I didn't have that.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, we just made this, this decision, but in a way, it's been incredible because it forced me very quickly to kind of like daydream, where I was kind of like, yeah, you know, relying on diving still and like everything will work out, you know, and I believe that as a principle, but you've got like you've got to take action.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: You can't.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: And again, like you know, shifting this, this growth mindset that we were talking about before I was still had this like idea that like well, but once I leave, like the performing life cause, it was a good, that was a good job and it paid reasonably well.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Like like what crazy.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: But reasonably well.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: You don't pay tax.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Like well, I loved it.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Number one, yeah, I like that was the biggest thing.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I loved it and it was a challenge, like it was.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean it was super, super scary.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Also, and you know, entertaining people being in teams of like my last cast was 30 people and within those 30 people, there were 14 different countries represented and within the ship environment itself, there's often up to around 80 different nations represented.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: So like that's like amazing, like what kind of.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: It's very difficult to pay for an experience that gets you that kind of access to different people.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: So that was so valuable.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: It did pay well, but the main thing that you pretty much just pocketed everything because you don't have living expenses, you don't pay for food unless you want to go to a restaurant.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: You don't.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: You know internet you pay for, but you know whatever.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: That's one thing.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: And then you don't pay tax if you're not American.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: So that was like pretty cool actually.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: If we're doing career diagram, we'd be looking at are you good at it?
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Do you love it?
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Will you get paid for it?
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: People prepared to pay for it, does the world need it, and all of those things.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: And you were right in that center spot.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: You'd made it.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Uh, ikagi, you know, taji, I'm gonna get it wrong.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: It's gonna sound awful now, but ikigai, ikigai, there you go, thank you, there we go.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: You're japanese.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: I should be japanese.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I could see the letters, but not the pronunciation.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so you were there, you'd nailed it.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: So you and your partner walked away from that.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: So, but well, I guess that it's.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: It started to overlap less, so let's you know which is?
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: You know the, the love.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: You wanted something new to come with it, but I guess you out a plan and so, again, what did you do?
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: so it began with travel.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: So we both went to our own respective countries, like like uk, japan, and then a couple of weeks later I, you know, I saw family couple weeks later I go to japan and we, we travel around japan for a couple of months and then we do, we have some other like we come back to europe and we we had a we did a trip with with my mom, actually together with my partner and her, her fiance, and you know loads of things like that Saw some friends, like we.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: So until about August so this is April to August we just traveled pretty much.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: So that was really cool.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: But then, yeah, even though in some ways it makes you seem like I'm so kind of like, you know, laissez faire and like let's just stop this and you know, we'll figure it out there's there's part of me that's like that, but there's all I still have a lot of anxiety and there's a lot of internal dialogue going on.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: So whilst I kind of sort of thought this, I was also like, but what are my skills?
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Now I've walked away from this, like, what do I do?
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: You know, one idea I'd had was to maybe go into the creation side of shows, and so like that was my fallback plan from when I was like actually performing.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, okay, I can probably go into like the creation side, that makes sense.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: But it felt like I was kind of just, you know, making an assumption rather than making an active choice like this is what I'm doing, if that kind of makes sense.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: So even when I walked away, like I had some conversations but I like wasn't really that excited about doing that, and so then I was like, well, so what, what can I do?
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: And I really beat myself up about that for a while and one kind of mistake but kind of not that I made was not valuing the skills I had acquired, enough not.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: And then not like really sitting back and journaling and figuring out like, okay, what can you do, what do you like, what do you want to do, what do you want to achieve?
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: I kind of skipped out a bit of that for a while and just thought I don't have skills, like I need to learn something.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: And in that time I thought, well, the most the smartest thing I could like put my attention towards now is probably, I thought, well, the smartest thing I could put my attention towards now is probably generative AI, and so that's not a bad decision that I made, but I made it with some wrong assumptions, I would say, about not having enough skills and not being valuable.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, you knew you wanted to learn something.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: However, the necessity that you put in your mind was because actually, I don't have any skills, so I need to find something to do, or like people won't pay for my skills, like I've.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: I've got skill.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've you know, I feel like I could offer something, but I don't know what that is and people aren't going to pay me for that.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: But I don't want a job you know, yeah, yeah, well, but well, what do you mean by a job?
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's good to clarify what I didn't want was a I'm not demonizing this at all, but what I didn't want was a nine till five corporate, you know, white collar kind of thing.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: If I'm honest, like that didn't feel, that didn't feel right for me for like the life that I'd lived up until that point.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: So I was quite determined to not do that and still am to some degree.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I am.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: So you know we spoke, you know, really early on.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: It was talking about, I guess, that the stigma you had.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: You had a stigma against what you'd achieved, as in being an Olympian, wasn't enough right, but also not recognizing the skills, knowledge that you'd acquired during two awesome experiences, from being an elite athlete, then being high diver on Royal Caribbean cruises.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Now, where are you now then, or to what extent do you recognize the skills and knowledge you have?
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: So that's been the sort of the most valuable thing from this year-long journey.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: I think in a way it's a challenge and I still wake up in some, some time, some days, like in some random southeast asian country, thinking like what, what am I doing my life?
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: So I still struggle with that.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: But I think really what's happened is I broke through the, you know, this kind of growth mindset issue I had.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: So now I wholeheartedly believe that, like you know, the only ways up, in a way, I can't wait to be like mid thirties, into my forties, into my fifties, in some way, you know, in terms of like what I'm going to be as a person.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: Then, you know, I'm actually excited for that because I know that, know, I'm just gonna improve myself like, I believe that now, rather than like just kind of like you know, reclining into like, although, you know, do you remember when I was used to be a diver, grandchildren would be like yeah, grandpa exactly so.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: I think the big moment was when I was in an onsen.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: So there's like a Japanese spa with like hot bath spa kind of, with natural hot spring water, on this in this volcanic island, just like 30 minute flight from Tokyo, and it was like £2.50 to enter this like beautiful spa for the day.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: And there's this outside bath and it's looking over this like beautiful kind of cliff, with this like peninsula sticking out into the sea, and I'm like you know, the short story is I was in this bath.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: I'm just like thinking that all these things have been going on my head like what I do in my life.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: And it started to rain and I was like Whoa, this is kind of crazy experience.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: I was like okay, like this is cool.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: And I had this like feeling of like I'm almost, like you know, speaking something like a bit more.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: And then, like the sun broke through the clouds as it was setting and it like cast this like amazing, like light across.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: I was like whoa, like that's pretty sick.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, like all right.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: As I climbed out the bath and I'm like stood on the edge of this like precipice, like watching, like this is cool, like give me something else, and then this huge rainbow comes, uh like one of the brightest rainbows I've ever seen.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Same thing again.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: Then, as you know, you know the double rainbow like happens.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: I'm like Whoa, and I'm no joke.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: In that moment I went I need to start my own business and I was open to her.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: It's like this, is it yeah?
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: yeah, and but so I didn't really know.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: You know that's, I didn't know what, but I'd like made that decision to myself and things are still are a bit unclear.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: But the journey I've been on is trying to create, like you know, valuable things with AI.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Where I'm at right now is I'm doing some kind of freelance software development with AI, you know, to help, you know, like micro web application things.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: So that's what I'm working on.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: But really my goal is to like how can I create something like that, that's like my own business, or how can I maybe use that, like with social media, to create something more?
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Because cause that, if I'm honest, like that's still not a hundred percent clear, like I've I've done some projects, I've done some freelancing, like there's been some results.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: But obviously, you know, things are, things are difficult, things are challenging and I don't have like full clarity of you know, I had some ideas that I worked on for a while that didn't quite work and like you know.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, and that's that's an understanding.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: But you know, we were, as we were chatting earlier.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Clarity doesn't mean certainty, but what you got at that magical moment, and you're gonna have to get the transcript of this and create that and and put that um, and create that into an image, because even a video that is going to be an awesome video generated from the transcript of, of, uh, of this conversation, because you know what, what you received, what you had at that point, was a clarity, a clarity and a vision on, yeah, I'm not having a job, I'm doing a business, it's going to be in a business, it's in this future technology and you, you, you know you talk about an excitement of, well, what you described as being older is very much starting to achieve the dream beyond that journey, and so you're excited about who you're going to become, rather than what you're doing or you know, or the job you've done, and that, I think, is powerful and, as you say, that's a journey that is going to wiggle, but you're excited about who you're going to be and and I think that's a great sense yeah it.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: That gives me a lot of solace now because, like I know deep down that I believe that.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: So what I have to learn to do is kind of be patient, and there's been a lot of stress and there's been a lot of experimentation.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: So you know that what I mentioned before, like that's one side of things, but also I'm also finally like taking content creation seriously and posting more and realizing that, like my, my story, just in itself has value.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: So trying to share, you know, and that's that's why we're speaking today, because I articulated something that resonated with some people and you you saw that and then you know, now we're having that conversation, so having little realizations like this, like okay, like damn, yeah, I can, there's some stories that are interesting, and so there's that.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: So you know, I'm, I'm, I'm hoping and I there's some stories that are interesting, and so there's that.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: So you know, I'm hoping and I've, me and my partner are experimenting with a couple of different social media channels as well, and because, you know, we're traveling a lot and we both love food, so like that, you know, we're experimenting with that and we've had some growth, which is kind of cool.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: And and also I'm, you know, I'm going to be commentating at the, the world championships, the world aquatics championships in Singapore in July.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: So that's like the biggest aquatics event outside of the Olympics.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: So diving, swimming, high diving, water polo, artistic swimming, open water swimming all of those sports in one event, so that's really cool.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: So I'm, like you know, back on the commentary scene as well, because when you're at sea it's kind of hard to do that.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: So there's all these kind of pieces and I'm trying to figure out, like, how they fit together.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: But what I know now is that slow, like steady progression each do one thing every day.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: That just slightly progresses my goal.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: And I think the other thing that's really stressed me out is this whole concept of like shiny object syndrome, so of not having, like your one focus.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: You know you're trying to do too many things at once.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Where I'm at right now is trying to balance that.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: Like what do I?
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: What's right for me?
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: Because I feel at the minute like things are a little bit all over the place because I'm, you know, I'm working on this and even with an old living partner, we're actually going to launch our own podcast together.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: So that's super exciting.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: So doing that and my own social media and then trying to still do my development work and blah, blah blah.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: So it's a little bit crazy.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: So I'm like oh, am I making a huge mistake by being like this, or is this the discovery phase?
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: So I'm partly trying to figure that out.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's interesting because I ask what's wrong about the portfolio, what's wrong about having these different avenues that you are exploring, where they continue to juggle Because you don't have something to commentate on every week?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: I mean you wouldn't, no no, no, which means it's not going to be lumpy.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: So it's like, well, that has to be lumpy in order to do it.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: So that means something else.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: There might be something else that might be a constant flow, but then it probably means there might be a couple of other lumpy activities or avenues.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: At least have the capacity to explore those.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: So it's one.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I often, when I'm, you know, speaking work with individuals, it's like, well, why is that a bad thing?
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's actually the way it is.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: What would it take for you to come to terms with that?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: And as athletes, you know we spoke about it earlier.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: You started at eight years old prioritizing one thing above everything else, but that got you to be the best in in britain at it.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: But there's no longer that singular focus.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: You, you don't need to be the best in britain at this, at this next thing.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of want to be yeah, you perhaps don't need to just have one thing.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: You, you can.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: You can do all these other stuff yeah, well, exactly, and, and I mean I, I really agree with you.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: So it's just, it's an interesting sort of balancing act right now because you know, I also, you know in the back of my mind it's, but I want to make sure that I'm giving you know what I am trying to do, giving that the best opportunity to be successful.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: So it's, I think there is a bit of a balancing act, but but, but I agree, I think I've always one of the reasons why I walked away from diving is because I had other interests.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of like where my, where I'm at right now in a lot of ways to, you know, have an opportunity to experiment with these different things.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is a question I've asked others.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Could you have achieved what you have achieved in sport alongside having all of those other interests?
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really good question and I've thought about this a lot.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Obviously, who knows?
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: You know you can't rewind the clock and in part, my answer is I wouldn't want to, because I am very proud of what I achieved and so I wouldn't if I change that and jeopardize that.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to do that.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, maybe maybe the choices I made of no university, et cetera, and staying like training Sheffield, maybe that's exactly what I needed to do.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: And there's definitely a part of me that feels like and maybe you know, university probably wasn't the right thing for me, but if I'd have, at the time that I was diving, if I'd have spent more time you know cause I did some stuff, but it was like it was a little thing but if I'd have gone into like a done my own like programming course, for example, and got stuck into that, or you know, or like really taken music seriously and make content around that, for example, like something like that, I believe that actually that would have helped me, because one of my biggest issues as well was like my brain didn't stop, like if I had a bad training session.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: I would just like think about how terrible diving I was and how the world is gonna end, and so that didn't stop.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Like if I had a bad training session.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: I would just like think about how terrible at diving I was and how the world was going to end, and so that wasn't helpful.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: So I think if I'd have had another focus like that, it would have also taken me out of my own head.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: So that's the way I honestly think about it.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: But obviously the truth is I don't really know, because so, as you think about young divers athletes in general but I guess I'm thinking more about divers coming through, what advice would you give to them, based on your experience, on how to best prepare for their life, for that career after diving?
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: So I think the biggest, what we talked about a lot, one of the biggest things for me was this mindset shift.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: So know that sport is only the beginning.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: Know that from the get go.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: This is just a start for you.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Life is going to be this super exciting journey and this is just the beginning.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: So be ready for that and don't think that what you're doing right now is the pinnacle of everything.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: That would be some advice.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: More advice would be, like you said, the day and age, the era of social media that we're in right now, like, use that, build your personal brand.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Again, we've touched on ai, being, you know, taking a lot of knowledge, work and stuff like that is I.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: I wholeheartedly believe that that's going to happen.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: So how do you make yourself relevant?
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Will you make yourself unique?
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: Build, build your brand, get your fans, whether it's for your sport or if it's for something else, you do, you know, build that personal brand so that that can't be replicated, because otherwise, you know, just trying to do, you know, like a job, the same as someone else or whatever, like that's going to be automated soon.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: So if you can make yourself, you know, like you and just be you as authentically you as possible.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: That can't be replicated.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: So, like, lean into that as much as you can and and experiment with different skills and options and courses and tools and all these things whilst you're still competing, because I do actually believe that, as long as it's, you know, you can go overboard.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: You don't want to, like, burn yourself out, but as long as it's manageable, it's actually.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: It's not only going to be healthy for the future, but it's actually going to help you for your sport, because it can just take you out of your mind of, like, ah, like this, you know, my sport, my world, this is everything.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: When it's not actually so, then and then finally, at the same time, be careful with attaching your identity too strongly to your sport.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: It's something that you do and it's something you're incredible at and it's something you should be very, very, very, very proud of.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: But it's not who you are, it's something that you do.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: You know I don't want to make it sound like less sexy by saying it's just a job.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: So I don't, you know, I don't that sounds kind of dull, but in a way, it is just a job how you choose to live your life and the things you choose to do and the other skills you create and your sport, plus the other things that you're interested in, like that makes you you.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: So don't feel like the sport is everything and all that you are, because it's not true freddy, I want to say thanks for joining me on the show.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: I'm loving our conversation and we definitely have to keep them going, as, as you travel around and figure things out, for sure I've enjoyed myself.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: That's lovely.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: There's going to be lots of people.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: Actually, I should say there's going to be people listening and watching.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Where's the best place, then, to follow your journey?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: We'll put it in the show notes, but where's the best place to follow your journey, I think?
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: for right now it's probably Instagram Freddie, with an IE underscore Woodward, and you know also, you know like LinkedIn as well.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, freddie, woodward, oly, blah, blah, blah you just did OLY, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: This is after everything we've discussed.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: You know that thing?
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: It's like no, no, freddie Woodward.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Oly yeah.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: It's like oh yeah, there's only one.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: That that's easy it's.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: I can't help it.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: It's still ingrained, but yeah, those would be the best places.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, too easy, too easy.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks a lot no, thank you, it's been.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed myself as well.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: I hope I some crazy tangents probably, but nevertheless it's been a great chat, so I appreciate it thank you for listening to the second win podcast.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwinio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: That's all from me.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: Take it easy Until next time.