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The Pole Runner: A Veteran’s Marathon with a Telephone Pole for Mental Wellness · Do Hard Things™ with Siegfried Tiegs

• 0:43
  Speaker 1: All right, Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Do Our Things podcast, Today's guest.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I'm super excited to talk to the one and only pole runner who is the founder of the Pole Runner Nation.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: His name is Michael Pickings, and this is the awesome thing about social media.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I happen to find you on TikTok.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I've been really inspired by your content and Michael is a true testament to resilience, perseverance and the power of transformation.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Michael Pickings he's 42 years old.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: He's a Navy veteran, dedicated advocate for mental health awareness.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: He's a graduate of Idabel High School and in 2001, Michael excelled as a long distance runner, participating in multiple grueling track events that taught him the importance of endurance and discipline.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Similar background After high school, Michael joined the military, serving as a corpsman and later as an FMF corpsman, and he excelled.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: He was known for his exceptional fitness here, in top honors during his training at Camp Pendleton, ultimately stationed in Japan where his running prowess was widely recognized.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Michael's journey hasn't been without his own challenges.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: He has experiences from his experience in war, and some of the challenges and impact of mental health struggles brought him to some of life's darkest moments darkest moments.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: He's faced some challenges, but yet his story of hope and determination and his unwavering support from his wife has enabled him to overcome these challenges, and Michael's mission now is to shine a light on mental health, sharing his incredible story to inspire others to overcome their own challenges, and I'm excited to have you here, Michael.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: So what am I missing from the intro?
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Well, nothing much.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: You pretty much hit it all on the button the military, the life afterwards.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I struggled after the military, of course, like you said and I mean it was it was hard.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I just I just now got back on track last year After a terrible episode and it's been going on since I got out in 2007.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: So it's been going on that long.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: It took me that long to get myself, get my mind completely right and stuff, to get myself get my mind completely right and stuff.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: So it's been a long road for me in and out of the, you know, va, mental health hospitals and things of that such.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: And you know I'm just now getting my life back on track with my kids and stuff.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I'm able to spend time with them and go see them on their sports and the things that they do.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: So that's enjoyable.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: My wife is enjoying me a lot more now because she's, like you know, I done made some big changes.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So she's happy for the changes that I've made and tried to do.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: So you know, the family life is great.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Now my mind is getting better.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: That's good and I'd like to get into that in uh in the interview today.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: But, um, just to kind of paint the picture for um, you know how I found you.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I guess I want to start off with uh, what is pole runner nation and your content that you've been creating, and what are some of your goals and objectives?
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Well, uh, pole running is, uh, is taking something that that you deem is is hard, like, uh, let's say, you're going through a depression or something like that and instead of the weight being on the inside of you, you're putting the weight on the outside of you, something that you can carry, something that you can physically see, and you're just taking that.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Like I just take my pole and I just I run until I don't have any more problems, or I run it so my mind is straight and it's just about doing something hard.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: It don't even have to be a pole.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Some people do weighted vests, some people just do heavy lifting or, you know, calisthenics or something like that, just something that you can put forth, the effort to do to make your mind a little bit stronger.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: So you know, I'm just trying to reach out to people that might be going through some things, and you know we're all going through a lot of things and stuff.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: So you know people can relate to it and you know that's why I enjoy inspiring and people inspire me when they, you know, leave me comments and stuff like that.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so what exactly are you training for and how are you going about it?
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Because every time I see you on TikTok you're like I think, if I remember correctly, you're training for a marathon, and just describe the pole that you're carrying.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: You're not carrying a fishing pole.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: No, you know what?
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: That pole was cut down from a light pole in my yard when we moved here and it's just sitting out in my yard and and one day I just I picked it up and I was like, I was like how far.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I was like uh, I'm wondering how far can I go with this thing.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: So you know, it just started that, um, but yeah, what's the other question?
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Because I get, uh, yeah, just just describe.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I want you to just describe the poll and what you're doing, because, uh, it's hard to uh, oh, okay, kind of imagine.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: So paint the pole and what you're doing, because it's hard to kind of imagine.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: So paint a picture of what you're doing.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the pole is 62 pounds.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I just weighed it like a week or so ago.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: It's 62 pounds, and I'm not really training for anything.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I'm setting goals in my mind.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: So I tried to do a marathon run with it, because I did a half marathon run with it the 13 miles and I was looking for something a little bit more harder and stuff.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So I was like you know what I want to?
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Can I run a marathon with it?
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: And um, I did the marathon.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I felt short, I I went to 19 miles and, uh, I know I did it a little bit early because I had it set for February 22nd.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I think that I was going to actually do it, but I felt good that day and so I was like you know what, let me just might as well go do it.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: So, but I only made it 19 miles.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Of course, I posted it on my, on my TikTok, and I was devastated.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I was really devastated.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I thought I could push it out, but I couldn't do it.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: And then I'm also training for I'm trying to do the McGinnis record for one hour push-ups, push-ups in one hour, but I'm going to start training on that once I get the marathon run out the way so I can focus on the push-up, One lofty goal at a time.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, so it's a 62-pound cut piece of telephone pole.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I mean you look like a pretty big dude and carrying it is like hanging off of your shoulder.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: It just looks painful it is.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Then, uh, it takes, uh, because I, uh, I have to put some towels under my shoulder because, uh, when you run with it for a while it weighs down on you and then, uh, uh, it squishes the towels.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: So the towels start out like this right here, but you, you know, by the time the run it starts getting lower and lower and there's not that much cushion.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: So when I did my 19-mile run, I put a pillow, I taped a pillow to my pole, but it offered some comfort and stuff like that, because when I just had the towels on there, I have to set the poles down.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Set the pole down to switch over the towels and then switch over.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I had to pick the log back up and put it on the other shoulder.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So you know, that was, um, that was some trying stuff, cause you know, once you put the pole down, 62 pounds isn't much.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: But when you're tired after a run and stuff like that, you know, sitting it down and picking it back up, switching over tiles, takes a bit out of you.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: So I tried to tape a pillow to it and that helped out, especially when I'm running I could just uh, pick the pole up and just switch sides with it.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: That way I could keep, uh, keep running.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Um, my only problem is when I'm running down these roads is people have their dogs out.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: So, you know, sometimes I have to stop running and you know, as a runner, once you get going it is hard stopping and restarting after that.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: So I have to continue with some dogs in the pole and then, you know, it gets my shoulder sore, uh, so, um, yeah, and then you know, it got got a little bit of bruising.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I thought my shoulder had been, uh, you know, getting used to it after a while, but, um, depending on how long that I run, uh, it still uh, bruises up my shoulder pretty bad, no matter what cushion I have up under there.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of weight, a lot of pressure and you're running on top of that.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: So that is one.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: It's an incredible feat, and to watch your videos, you know when you're in it like it.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Just it looks challenging for sure.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: It is especially with the heels.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: The heels are terrible.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Now, what um?
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: You did 19 miles of the day.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: How, how long did it take you to complete 19 miles?
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: And how, how long did it take you to do the half marathon?
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Just for reference.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, um, well, uh, just to give a little background, because one of my legs I tore my hamstring, like completely tore it, and the VA never fixed it, so I can't do a full stride.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: So in my video you'll hear me dragging my left leg and stuff.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: It's a nuisance, but I can't do a full stride so it's like little choppy steps so it takes me a little bit longer.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: But I started at 19 miles.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: I started at eight o'clock I think I got finished.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I think it was around 11, 1130, somewhere around there.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: The half marathon, it took me.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Marathon, it took me, it took me, I think, about two hour two and a half hours, almost three, uh, somewhere around there.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Um, um, but uh, that's pretty quick for carrying a 62 pound telephone pole.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: It's pretty good yeah, that's what my, that's what my wife asked, because, uh, she was, I started around I always started around eight and she's supposed to meet me after she got through with her hair and her hair only took a couple hours or something around there and uh, she had called me.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I'm almost to town.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: That was on my 13 mile run and uh, she's like you're already there.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I was like I was like, yeah, I'm almost there, I'm almost there, but you know, it took me a while to build that up, though.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: It took me a while.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: So I want to time.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I want to actually time, because I don't never time it when I run, but I'm going to time a three mile one, and then I'm going to time a six mile one and then I want to try to actually time time, uh, the half, uh, the half marathon, um, cause I never really time it, or anything like that.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like you got a pretty good pace going.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Uh, pretty impressive.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Uh, timing for for what you're doing, it's, it's incredible.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: But you know I always had good endurance and stuff.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I always had good endurance.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I didn't ever know that I was good at long-distance running until middle school and when my coach put me out there, I didn't ever know that I was actually good at long distance.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I had the lung, the wind, wind capacity to do that until, uh, a coach in seventh grade had, you know, put me out on a track and, you know, did a, a mile and uh, I did pretty good in it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So, uh, that was the first time I ever knew that I was good at something.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: so, yeah, yeah, no, that's awesome.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: So you're doing, um, you're, you're doing this pole running and it's become a uh, just a personal challenge for you.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: How has it helped you overcome some of the challenges and how is it related to mental health?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Like what, what?
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Why are you doing this?
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Well, man, it, it really helps out my, uh, my mental health, like, uh, like I told you, uh, uh, it took, it takes, um, it takes out what I have on my inside, like the depression, the ptsd and everything.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: And when I look at that poll, that's, that's all my problems, right there, that poll is I, I put all my problems into that, into that poll, and I know that if I put all my problems into that, into that pole, and I know that if I can physically carry my problems, and you know, if I could do that mentally, and just you know, if I have a six mile run set and I could finish that run with, uh, with the pole, uh, I know that I can, you know, beat my, you know, whatever mental health that I got going on that day.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: So, every day, like I have to, I have to put some, I have to take what's on the inside and make it a physical thing and, you know, try to conquer it that way.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: That way it's not all balled up inside my head and you know, and you know it takes away from, you know, the happiness that I could experience for that day.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, it, just that's what I do is just, you know, I make it a physical problem, that way I could deal with it, because if it's a mental problem or something like that, it's hard for me to actually deal with it.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: You know, just sitting here and you know, just dwelling on it.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: So that's one thing I love about like endurance, sports and the type of physical fitness that you're only focused on the task at hand, like you don't have time to ruminate or think about anything else.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: It really gets you really, really present in the moment, and that's what I suspect is happening for you as you're trying to, you know, do this very difficult and challenging thing.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: You know when you're, when you're, you know carrying this thing for 13, 19,.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: You know, goal of a marathon, like you're just focused on the task at hand and the sense of accomplishment that that comes with that, which is, which is pretty cool.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when I finished a run, oh, yeah, when I finish a run.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, when I finish a run, it's nothing like that personal accomplishment, man.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: It feels good.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: When I have something set in my mind and I complete it, man, it makes my day that just much more better and stuff.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that that personal goal is is important for people to set now, when people in your community see you running with this pole, does anyone do?
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Do they honk at you?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Do they say anything like what?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, they honk.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, a lot of people slow down, you know they slow down to a creep, you know while they're in their car and I know they're just curious and stuff like that.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, when I first time I went to town because I'm usually in the country, so you know the country people are usually used to me seeing.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: You know seeing it and stuff.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: So when I ran to town my first time, there was a guy outside fixing his lawnmower and he was like you know, I done been in this city for 50-something years and I've seen everything, but I've never seen a person run with a log on their back.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, yeah, it's like you're seeing it now.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: So he was like, where are you coming from?
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, it's like you're seeing it now.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: So he was like, where are you coming from?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I was like about 12 miles near the race car track and stuff.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: He was like, man, that's a long way.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I was like I don't want to talk too long because I don't want to run out of breath right now, but I'll go ahead and finish.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And then there was a lady at a restaurant.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: She actually came out on my 19-mile run.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: She actually came out and said that I could stop by her restaurant and get a free meal, or if I need some water or free coffee or something like that.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: They've been really supportive of me.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: When they do see me, they've been, you know, really supportive of me.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Uh, when they do see me.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: No, it's so awesome.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, as many years have I been out on a bicycle or running?
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: You know you get all sorts of people like what, are you lost?
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Why are you out here?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: If it's like really cold temperature, like are you, are you homeless?
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I can't imagine what people are saying seeing you with a pole.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: It's hilarious.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they, they are what they're thinking it's hilarious.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they are.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: They're mostly curious about it.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: One dude had turned around and he was like man, I just need to know, was you okay?
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: He was like I didn't want to leave you out here and I was like yeah, I'm okay, man.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: And my wife was like he's okay, he just does this crazy stuff every now and then Don't worry about him, he's okay, he just does this crazy stuff every now and then Don't worry about him.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: It's great that people still care enough to make sure that you're okay.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Now I mentioned Idabel.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: High School.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Where are you from?
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't catch where you're actually at.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I was born in Idabel, but I went to school my first time going to school I went to school in a small town called Tum, Oklahoma, and then I transferred to Hayworth, oklahoma, and then I transferred to Foreman, arkansas, and I went there around the fifth, sixth grade and that's where I stayed at.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: After that I'd have been Oklahoma.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in Oklahoma now.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'd have built Oklahoma, okay so you're in Oklahoma now?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm in Arkansas now, but Oklahoma is where I'm from.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, so born and grew up in Oklahoma, and now you find yourself in Arkansas.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, awesome, you're not too far from me, so we'll have to get together for training.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because I go to Missouri, because my kids have, um you know, sports up there, so I go up there uh pretty often to go watch them, uh, to go watch them play yeah, that's great.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I head down to arkansas.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Arkansas is a beautiful state.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: It's a, it's a playground for, like outdoors, so so many great things to do down there.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about, um, if you don't mind, maybe some of the the, the mental health challenges that that you've had because you know I, I've definitely had them myself.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: A lot of people that are listening.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I mean it's uh, it's, it's.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: It's far more prevalent um than people realize.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I love talking about this.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: If you could, you could maybe share with us, like, you know, what has your journey been with your own mental health?
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: And maybe, like, what was the big turning point that's enabled you to be more resilient and navigate your mental health better than you had before?
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I had got out of the military on a personality disorder, um, about uh, 2004, 2005, somewhere around there.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Um, I started, uh, I started downfalling for some reason, like right after I got out, the right back, after I came back from the, from the war cause I was only there for a couple of months because I was actually I was down in the Philippines and was doing an exercise down in the Philippines and they had asked us if anyone would want to volunteer to go for medical support up there and of course, nobody raised their hand.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Nobody raised their hand, nobody raised their hand.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: So, uh, they had bought kind of voluntold me to go and I, I think when you, when you're going to war, it you know you have to be mentally prepared to go.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It's like, uh, you know, some people train, you know, you know, for actual combat before they go.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: So me just being in, I call it paradise to hell.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: You know, that took a lot out of me and then I had some head trauma because I was knocked unconscious more times than I can count.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: So after I had got back, um, I just wasn't right.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Um, they had started sending me to um in my, in my hm1 at that time had noticed it and he started sending me, uh, to the doctor.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: He told me to start going to see a psychiatrist and stuff and I started going.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, of course I couldn't carry my weapon anymore.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: They took that away and it was just a downfall after that and I was just I couldn't remember a lot of things.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I was getting more angry.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I was getting more depressed.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I started cutting, I started self-mutilating while I was in the military and I did.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I crushed my wrist bone real bad because I had hit a door like a metal door and I crushed my wrist real bad.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And I just couldn't control my anger, I couldn't control my depression, I couldn't control my thoughts, I couldn't control remembering things because my memory started fading and they just decided that it would be better for me just to go ahead and get out.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: They gave me an honorable discharge but they put me out in like a couple, two weeks or three weeks and that's the fastest I ever seen somebody get out of military because I didn't even have enough to, I didn't have enough time to even uh get my, my life set up back back at home.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: So when I got back home and stuff like that.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Uh, I didn't have anything.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do or how to get started or anything like that, and the military wasn't paying me for my mental health.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Then Of course I didn't know how to get things started.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: But after I had got out man, everything, just I don't know everything my mental health just totally took over man and I could not get myself right to save my life.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I could not get myself right.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: It was just a crazy.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: It was just crazy time and I was in and out of the mental health hospital several different times because of suicide, or I was cutting myself, or like I'll go to a city or state and I don't know how I got there and I turn myself into the VA.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Just let them know.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Like I don't even know how I got here, you guys.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: And or homicidal, suicidal thoughts and stuff like that, nightmares, insomnia, you pretty much name it, it, it it took over and the thing is about it.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, the doctors didn't know how to actually treat me because I had so many things going on.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Um, on top of the mental health stuff, they said I had a traumatic brain injury as well.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: So, um, that kind of you know, threw things off and stuff, and I had got married a couple times as a fact, you know this is my fourth marriage right here because you know I just could not.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I couldn't get it right.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: I couldn't, I disappeared or you know I was living a wild lifestyle that I just didn't care.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't feel safe being in one location if that makes sense.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I get anxiety being in one location.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: People started to get to know me and stuff like that.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I started to disappear.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I leave all my clothes, everything that I own.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I went down to Houston.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I was homeless in Houston for about six, eight months because I just wanted to disappear.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I could have called home or something like that, but I just wanted to be by myself and stuff.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: It took me all the way from 2007, when I got out, all the way up until 2024 to actually get myself right.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: And you know I had to get the right doctor as well.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: She put me on the right medication.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: She was pretty much patient with me.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: You know I could talk to her about anything, because I was scared to talk to the VA, because I talked to them one time and they sent the police to my house.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: It was like, and the police came, it was like three or four units.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I was like, and I looked out the window, I was like, I was like man, there's a lot of police outside.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: And you know, they came up and they was like, yeah, the VA called, you know, for a health and wellness check.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I was like it took all you guys to come check, come check on me.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And so I was nervous the whole time I was nervous, I was trying not to, you know, act a certain way or something like that it was.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: It was just a terrifying moment for me, cause I was going through a lot of stuff then and, uh, I didn't want my mind to black out or anything like that, because I couldn't control my blackouts then.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's been an uphill battle for me and I'm just thankful that I made it through, because my cousin, he was going through the same thing and he didn't make it.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I'm just glad that I was able to, you know, get to this point.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate you sharing and thank you for your service, you know, to our country and that, as a corpsman, I can't imagine.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: You know what you've seen and your experiences combined with the.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: You know you said that you already had some head injuries and things like that.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: That's a, that's a, obviously that's that's going to cause some challenges.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: So you've you face some incredibly dark times, no doubt.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And then, on top of that, like the rapid transition from the military, like I retired from from the military after 27 years of service.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: After 27 years of service, and everything was pretty.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I, in the grand scheme of things, it was just me just trying to find myself.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: A lot of veterans struggle with that.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Who, who aren't dealing with the mental health challenges.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: So, trying to navigate that on top of mental health, I can't even imagine what you know without the support and camaraderie and um, you know that that that you had.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: It had to be an incredibly difficult time.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: What's pulled you back from the brink?
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: You know it sounds like you're in a really good spot now.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: What are some of the things that have enabled you to, you know, move forward and I guess, for lack of a better term just like stabilize and lead a more normal life.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Well, first off, of course, I got the right doctor and she, she actually listened to me and she done put me on some some good medication for, you know, for first off, but it's not so bad that it makes me drowsy all day, where it's like I'm zombie, you know, for first off, but it's not so bad that it makes me, uh, drowsy all day, where it's like I'm zombie, you know.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And, um, of course, um, when, uh, I was about to commit suicide, uh, last year, man, I prayed, I prayed and I, you know, I was praying the year, the years before, man, I dropped down outside and I, I'd pray and it seemed like it was never getting answered.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: It was never getting answered.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I get upset with God and stuff like that, and you know I do a lot of wild talk and you know I could never, you know, my spirituality wasn't really good.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: My relationship, you know, with God really wasn't good.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I started blaming him for a lot of stuff, but God really wasn't good.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: You know, I started blaming him for a lot of stuff and but right before I pulled, right, before I was going to pull the trigger last year, like I, just I gave prayer one more time, you know, one more try and like believe it or not, like my, it seemed like a weight was lifted off of me that time, Like I never I always said that I never felt spiritual or I never felt God or you know, I never felt, you know, that type of connection.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: But you know, that time I, you know, I felt it and then you know, it stuck with me and stuff, I felt it and it stuck with me.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: That really helped me out.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: To know that.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: It helped me out where I could control it a little bit better.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: I was able to control myself a little bit better.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: My wife, she was going through a lot of stuff Like she said she was walking on eggshells all the time around me and stuff she didn't know what to what to expect.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Sometimes, when I go off, like I don't remember, and stuff like that, and she said I have multiple personalities and stuff like that, and sometimes, when it happens, she has like a to-go bag and she has to rush out the house with the keys and she'll, you know, she'll, you know, run to the car and stuff like that, and, um, you know all the stuff that I put her through, I started actually realizing, you know that, uh, that I have to do better with her because she don't stick beside me through, you know, all this thing for about 15 years.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: So, you know, really giving her my best and actually trying, because sometimes I look back and I was like, was I really trying?
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Was, you know, did I just give in too easy?
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Or, you know, was I really trying to make myself better personally?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: And sometimes I don't think I was so.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: With that, my wife's support, trying to do better for her, God, and also working out, and working out then made a pretty big difference in my life.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I used to do it, but you know, I work out for, you know, two, three months and then I quit.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I gained weight all the way back, and then I get depressed again and then I start back and it's like yo-yoing effect all the time with me and I can never get anything constant though.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: And then I start back and it's like yo-yoing effect all the time with me and I can never get anything constant though.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Right now it's just I'm trying to base my life on consistency and have some consistency about myself and set goals for myself right now.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: So all those things put together, you know it made a pretty good circle for me and stuff, and you know it's been been pretty good so far.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, uh, a deeper connection with, uh, with God, you know, um, realizing that, um, there's other people relying on me, you know, right, and and your relationship with your wife being consistent.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Realizing that, uh, you know, when you're not working out that you're kind of slipping, it kind of leads to, you know, backsliding a little bit.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Uh, those are some pretty powerful indicators and I just applaud you for having the courage to share that with us and and just to continue to continue the, the, the fight, if you will.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm going.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try to continue.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: I don't ever want to fall back into that dark space again.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I'm afraid of getting back in there because I was so close to being the end of me last time.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to stay focused this time.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: That's good.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I think you have a powerful story to tell, and the statistic of the number of veterans that are taking their life it's really alarming and it's a great reminder that the fight is ongoing and oftentimes, people are fighting in silence.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: People, people are fighting in silence.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: So I appreciate you sharing your story and it's a it's a tremendous testimony of of overcoming uh in in in resilience, and I just wish you all the best of luck on this journey.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I think I think, uh, when I, when I saw your, your, your videos, I'm like, oh man, I got to talk to Michael, like there's just, I just appreciate, um, the message that that you're spreading, and I think more people need to hear your, uh, your story.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: What advice would you give someone that is having some mental health uh, uh challenges, like, like, like you've had to to move?
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Well, first, uh, uh, you know, seek help, uh, as much as you can, um, and then, uh, you know, always, never, never, give up in the fight, because a lot, of, a lot of us want to want to give up at some point in time because, you know, it just seems like we can't do nothing right, or we're always doing things wrong, or, you know, we don't, we, we just can't get our life going at that time.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: So sometimes it takes a little bit of time and it takes a little bit of effort on our part and we can't give up on ourselves.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: As soon as you give up on yourself, then there's nothing like losing hope.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: When you don't have hope and stuff like that, there's nothing else to fight for after that.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: When you don't have, no, you know nothing, no hope for yourself and stuff like that, and I always look to conquer something, and even if it's just your mind or you know, it's just becoming a better person or, you know, becoming a better husband or wife or something like that.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: You know I always try to put my thoughts on another person.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I always want to try to for my wife and stuff.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I always want to try to for my wife and stuff.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I always want to try to be better for her and stuff.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: So I can't afford to, you know, fall into a depression, you know for long, or you know feel sorry for myself and stuff like that, because I have, you know, responsibility, you know to her, you know to her, um, so you know you just got to find some, find some worth in your life and everybody has some, some self-value, some self-worth about themselves.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: And once you figure it, you know figure it out and stuff, then you know you can, you can come, you know you can overcome it.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: It's, it's difficult and a lot of people give up, but but you've got to find some strength within yourself to keep going.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Nazi death camps, numerous Nazi death camps in World War II, and talks about.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: You know what is the?
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: What would?
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: What would cause people to continue to fight, you know, versus just tapping out, and he could see the difference right away.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: He knew when someone was going to fall out.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: I want to say fall out, you know they would either succumb to disease or you know just the, just the most diabolical, like horrendous things that you could ever imagine.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: You know, was was done to those people in the, in the camps?
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Uh, but it's just, it's remarkable how resilient people can be when they are, when they have that level of hope, or they have something to live for and fight for.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: And I don't know what it is, but I feel like every human on this planet that I've ever interacted with has some type of challenge or a series of challenges that they have to overcome.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: That's unique to them and it doesn't always seem fair, but I feel it's like the ultimate test and how we show up to that test, you know, uh requires resilience and and, um, yeah, there's some, there's something to it I don't know what it is but, um, hope and having something, and, and often we'll do more for others than we will ourselves.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: You know you get connected to God like there's gotta be meaning, and reasoning just beyond ourself and I think if you can tap into that, that can give you the motivation and the will to press on, even in the most horrific conditions.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, uh, cause I done a lot of people at the uh the thing that I go to, uh a lot of people done uh seen my changes and you know they uh a couple of them, a few people came to me and said, man, we can really see some changes in you.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: And they told me that it motivates them to.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: You know, try to overcome you know their problem Because they say we know where you came from, so you know we know if we can, if you can, you know, do that, then you know they can do it as well.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: So just giving somebody the motivation and inspiration to overcome their problems, it means a lot to me.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I talk about that quite a bit in my teachings Be the lighthouse, right.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: This is why you should share your journey and share the challenges that you're going through, because you never know who you're going to inspire and that in itself, you know, I, I like I said, maybe, maybe that's God's uh next mission for you is to just share your own compelling story of overcoming these challenges and maybe that's through, you know, carrying a pole, for you know a marathon, maybe it's a 50K after that, maybe it's another challenge after that and inspiring others to do the same.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: And I just love the fact that you know you're demonstrating.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: You know that pole is like your physical burden and challenge and that you can carry it Right and it's a hard thing to do, but we can carry it, and we can carry it much further than we think that we can.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, People are stronger than than what they think they are.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: That's the, the resilient, like you had talked about being resilient man People are is more resilient than they give themselves credit for, is more resented than they give themselves credit for Absolutely, absolutely.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: What message do you want anyone listening to this to take away?
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: What would be the overarching theme and message that you're trying to get out there?
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Like I had said in one of my videos, man, it doesn't matter if you're in the darkness, it doesn't matter if you have a hill to go up in, no matter how steep the hill is, no matter how much weight that you have on your shoulders or burden that you're carrying, you know you can always conquer.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: We're built to conquer our problems.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: We're built to overcome any situation that we have.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: You know, any burden or any situation, bad situation that we have going on in our lives.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: We're not, you know, we're not made.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: We're not made weak, even though people might, you know, go through a lot of stuff that might bring them down, and you know they, they might, might be weak in the moment.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It was like, but when you're, I like to say when you, when you're at your weakest, you're at your strongest because you have a lot to overcome and as long as you got that fight in, you, man, is, you can overcome it.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: So never give up on yourself.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Uh, Never stop trying, because once you stop trying, then you know you're giving up on yourself.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: So just never give up on yourself.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: There's always a tomorrow, there's always a next day.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: So just get by the day and when tomorrow comes, then worry about tomorrow.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I love it, man.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: So what's next for you?
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: What are your objectives for this year with running and the pole running?
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: What's next for you?
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: What are, what are your objectives for this year with running and the pole running?
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Well, uh, I want to try for that, uh to finish that, that marathon run.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm going to give myself a couple of months uh to uh to get it done.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Uh, when I did the 19 miles, I kind of didn't do it right Cause, uh, uh, most runners told me to carb load the day before I had fasted two days prior to that run.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I was running on fumes that whole run.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to eat right the day before the other day.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try to actually complete it this time After that.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: That would make sense.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Why you hit the wall at 19?
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Because roughly around 18 miles in.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: That's when all of your glycogen stores are gone and that's when you hit the wall in a marathon.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: So that would make sense if you're fasted so credibly.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: You made it that far past it.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, know, right, I know, I know yeah, because people's like did you uh?
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Some people messaged me like did you, uh, did you eat and you know stuff like that.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I was like no, I was like I fasted, I was on my two-day fast and you know, when you fast, you wake up, you know, like a day or two later you got all this energy and stuff.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: And you know I, you fast, you wake up, you know, like a day or two later you got all this energy and stuff and you know, I was running and stuff like that and I was fine, but uh, yeah, I had hit, hit that wall and uh, I couldn't go no more after that I couldn't do it, but, uh, I'm gonna finish it, um, and then, uh, I'm gonna do that, that guness one-hour push-ups, probably around September, october, and then I got one more long pole run because I really want to go.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's about 60 miles to one town that I want to go to, but I want to have a uh, I'm trying to get some shirts made uh to or like uh, mental health, awareness and military and you know, got you know uh, supporting all these different uh types of of things that's going on.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: So it's going to be like awareness run.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Let us know when you're doing that and we'll definitely push it out in our community and our channels for sure.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: That's awesome Love to support you.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, I appreciate that Really do.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we're going to go ahead and move toward the exit of the door here on the interview, but is there anything else that I failed to ask that you'd like to get out there to everyone?
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: No, no, you did good, man.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: This is my first interview, so I didn't interview, so I don't.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Everything seemed nice to me, it was really nice being on your podcast and I enjoyed talking with you and I appreciate the support and everything that you that you've done, so Well, I I appreciate you spreading the message, cause it's a very important message.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I think what you're doing is awesome, so I want to continue to encourage you to be that lighthouse and just share.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's going to give you the strength, because there's no doubt, like for all of us, there's going to be continued challenges going forward.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: If there's anything that I can do for you or our community can do for you, we'd definitely love for you to share your journey with us.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I just appreciate you taking the time to being here and sharing, hopefully, your first interview, but one of many is because I think what you're doing is awesome and more people need to know about it.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, I appreciate that man.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: It means a lot to me.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: How can people get connected with you and support you?
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Well, of course, my TikTok is the Pole Runner.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: You can hit me up on there.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I do have a YouTube it's called the.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Hit me up on there.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I do have a a YouTube that's called the uh the log runner.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: On YouTube, though, um, I put more.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I put more other stuff on YouTube, cause, you know, uh, tiktok is kind of sensitive about you know different things.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: So, uh, there's more things on my YouTube.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: And then on Facebook, uh, you can do hashtag uh the pole runner or hashtag the log runner, and some of my reels will pop up on there.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: So those are my three outlets, pretty much media.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: We'll get those links.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: We'll put them in the show notes so, for anyone that wants to connect with you, they can connect with you in the show notes.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So, michael, I with you in the show notes.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: So, michael, I appreciate you so much.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: I'm eager to see you know we're, uh, how far you can take that poll and just thank you so much for spending your time with us today.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it, man.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks again.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: All right out there in the Jordan Things Nation.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Keep doing hard things and we will catch you in the next episode.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Make sure you go to the show notes and connect with Michael, and we'll see you guys soon, peace.