Latest / UK Column Radio / The Nuances of South Africas Apartheid System | Jerm Warfare

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The Nuances of South Africas Apartheid System | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: M m m m. My name is Jim. This is
0:31
Speaker 1: germ warfare, the battle of ideas.
0:35
Speaker 2: I'm roush, just been a few days, but thank you
0:38
Speaker 2: for joining me in the strangers again.
0:40
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, with Cidelander's pleasure. Jeremy, we we We're always
0:44
Speaker 1: happy to deal with you, to deal with me. That
0:49
Speaker 1: sounds very Muffia gonna deal with you conversations and you're
0:57
Speaker 1: a good guym Well.
1:00
Speaker 2: Look, so the last conversation we had was about the
1:04
Speaker 2: Sweata uprising aka Youth Day sixteen June public holiday here
1:10
Speaker 2: in South Africa, and it got quite a lot more
1:15
Speaker 2: reaction than I expected, which means that there is a
1:19
Speaker 2: lot of interest in it. I thought it would be
1:24
Speaker 2: good for you and I to continue the discussion to
1:26
Speaker 2: some degree around not just Youth Day, but also I
1:31
Speaker 2: think a part eid as a whole. There seems to
1:34
Speaker 2: be a lot of emotion when this topic is brought up,
1:38
Speaker 2: and I mean it's weird.
1:39
Speaker 1: It's what thirty years ago now, a party at the
1:45
Speaker 1: end of a part eid, yes, thirty two years ago. Yeah,
1:50
Speaker 1: and yet it's still a difficult topic for many use.
1:57
Speaker 1: But I think, Geremy, that people lose sight of a
1:59
Speaker 1: few things. First, this interview is being done through Riverside
2:07
Speaker 1: at radio in London, so speak for an hour on
2:11
Speaker 1: a subject to take into a counter audience. And I
2:16
Speaker 1: can't go into the deepest, deepest, deepest weeds of every event.
2:20
Speaker 1: You know, UK column You mean UK column the Riverside
2:24
Speaker 1: is a software uh big? I had that wrong all
2:28
Speaker 1: the time, UK column the Riverside I thought. I always thought,
2:32
Speaker 1: oh they've got two there were two names. One must
2:35
Speaker 1: be like a trade name. Okay, But but go on,
2:43
Speaker 1: because there's a there's an a name somewhere Riverside f M.
2:47
Speaker 1: So it must be Riverside software. For I gave this
2:55
Speaker 1: very serious thought and research after the indignation nation of
3:00
Speaker 1: a number of the viewers, and after you invited me
3:05
Speaker 1: to do a follow up. You can take this back
3:09
Speaker 1: to the boer Wark. What I mean to say is
3:13
Speaker 1: it was offended. I said that the Sharpville massacre formed
3:20
Speaker 1: a context sixteen years later the uprisings. I also mentioned
3:26
Speaker 1: the decolonization across Africa, and I mentioned as the government
3:30
Speaker 1: imposing Afrikaans as the medium of instruction for black pupils
3:37
Speaker 1: in South One. There. That's the one I said to
3:42
Speaker 1: you that if I had to learn algebra. Manian. Can't
3:49
Speaker 1: use your first language, English, you can't use Africans, you
3:52
Speaker 1: really use a third language. I'd also been throwing stones
3:55
Speaker 1: at the windowpanes of the school, and I said it
3:58
Speaker 1: was very badly handled in us that position. But one
4:02
Speaker 1: of these guys, I phoned him yesterday, long story, short,
4:06
Speaker 1: vivial conversation, and this morning he invited me to visit
4:10
Speaker 1: him at his home for the sixth time. Six times now.
4:14
Speaker 1: He's kind of said, Okay, I get it. Listen, we
4:17
Speaker 1: should sit around the table and you know, break bread
4:20
Speaker 1: and what have you. As I tried to explain to him,
4:26
Speaker 1: there's no time for me to go into what Sharpvill
4:30
Speaker 1: I just said. It was part of the context from
4:33
Speaker 1: the point of view of the black people and the
4:35
Speaker 1: international media. And the cause of Sharpville was topvill Manya
4:42
Speaker 1: outbreaks in top fill. Cause of pneumonia outbreaks was overcrowding.
4:51
Speaker 1: The cause of overcrowding past system. The cause of the
4:58
Speaker 1: past system was the mines needing lots of cheap labor.
5:07
Speaker 1: Past system, you could say, was the hut tax, because
5:11
Speaker 1: the miners need a cheap labor. Just back to the
5:16
Speaker 1: First World War in eighteen seventy. We don't have sixteen
5:20
Speaker 1: hours to discuss these subjects, so sometimes I will just
5:23
Speaker 1: allude to something in passing and people will be super
5:26
Speaker 1: offended or massacre and to help everybody. On the twenty
5:33
Speaker 1: first of March nineteen sixty, in a township as the
5:39
Speaker 1: black towns were called, a township in newly built because
5:44
Speaker 1: of illnesses breaking out constantly in another township, severe illnesses township,
5:53
Speaker 1: and they think, well, this is inorganic, so let's put
5:56
Speaker 1: a police station in here. Instead of the police station
5:59
Speaker 1: being there or there, put it right in the middle,
6:02
Speaker 1: but a passageway out of the township to the train
6:07
Speaker 1: system and to the main road system, so that the
6:10
Speaker 1: police could check the passbooks of the black people. Black
6:13
Speaker 1: people were required to carry passbooks. And as evil as
6:18
Speaker 1: black people thought that system was, it wasn't the pure
6:21
Speaker 1: evil that it's mistaken for. I'm not saying it was great,
6:25
Speaker 1: saying there was a reason for it. It was because
6:28
Speaker 1: when the British was a hut tax after winning the
6:33
Speaker 1: Second Boer War to force people who were self reliant
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Speaker 1: or areas to seek work. US is no respected scholar
6:50
Speaker 1: or academic who disputes that imposed at the behest of
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Speaker 1: the mine owners. When they did that, such a flood
7:01
Speaker 1: of people from the eastern littoral of South Africa, the
7:06
Speaker 1: population of South Africa traditionally before urbanization and mines. That
7:12
Speaker 1: the next thing when people lived wherever there was rain,
7:15
Speaker 1: and wherever crops grew, and wherever very much along the
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Speaker 1: east coast of South Africa what is modern day Mozambique
7:25
Speaker 1: flea speaking Fish River position of the hut tacks fourteen
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Speaker 1: shillings in the in the province of Quasila what is
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Speaker 1: now Quasilu Hotel and ten shillings elsewhere. It varied. Thousands
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Speaker 1: of black laborers left that region and came up to
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Speaker 1: the mines to get work, to get money. They couldn't
7:55
Speaker 1: just say we're not part of the system. We live
7:58
Speaker 1: in rural zululand I've got twelve cows and ten acres
8:03
Speaker 1: of land, grow my own maize. Blah blah blah blah blah.
8:06
Speaker 1: It was a very very clever thing to do. Too well.
8:11
Speaker 1: A crowding and disease became a big, big problem. The
8:17
Speaker 1: government said, look, we can't just have everybody in South
8:20
Speaker 1: Africa living around the mines of the free stake Goldfields
8:25
Speaker 1: and the Johannesburg of Advartis Frenachan the famous PWV triangle.
8:36
Speaker 1: They did that and very offended by it. Why should
8:40
Speaker 1: only we have to have past books, you know, to
8:43
Speaker 1: carry this thing with us everywhere? Should we should be
8:46
Speaker 1: allowed to move freely? Which is perfectly understandable. Township of Chapel,
8:50
Speaker 1: which was only two years old, the station was very
8:55
Speaker 1: efficient system and the people got fed up with it.
8:59
Speaker 1: Go back a few weeks from the twenty first of
9:03
Speaker 1: March nineteen sixty twenty third of January nineteen sixty twenty three,
9:11
Speaker 1: policemen to what is the right word, They were looking
9:18
Speaker 1: for illegal liquor in a township behind the town of
9:23
Speaker 1: Durban on the east coast of South Africa. I used
9:26
Speaker 1: to live in the last white street before that township
9:31
Speaker 1: across the street began the township, so I know it
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Speaker 1: very well. It's called Cato Mena. I'll think of the
9:40
Speaker 1: roads as the name in I'll think of it in
9:44
Speaker 1: a minute. In the very last house of the very
9:49
Speaker 1: last road, overlooking that township, the Zulus were brewing a
10:01
Speaker 1: liquor called govin. You don't have nineteen hours to discuss
10:05
Speaker 1: all of the nicety. So if I offend somebody here
10:08
Speaker 1: or there, I'm just trying to keep it simple. Is
10:11
Speaker 1: if you think along the lines of sugar cane and
10:16
Speaker 1: rusty nails, or sugar cane and battery acid. It's an
10:20
Speaker 1: evil drink, but it's cheap and easy to produce. In
10:24
Speaker 1: a province which had then the three largest sugar terminals
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Speaker 1: in the world, there's sugar cane everywhere. Get all of
10:35
Speaker 1: cheap activant with it, and you've got a drink. But
10:39
Speaker 1: it's bad for you. It famously gives you very red lips,
10:45
Speaker 1: gives hangovers that you know, are very mentally destructive. The
10:52
Speaker 1: Zulu women, the Inguni women, I'm not referring to Nguni
10:56
Speaker 1: as a subset of Bonto. I'm referring to Inguni as
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Speaker 1: a clan, subtribal the Zulu. The Nguni women who were
11:03
Speaker 1: famous for brewing it, got fed up the police coming
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Speaker 1: taking their stuff away, and there was a fraca, And
11:12
Speaker 1: to cut a long story short, we had turned into
11:17
Speaker 1: a mob violence thing, and nine of the twenty three
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Speaker 1: policemen were butchered, very very badly. They were in many
11:25
Speaker 1: cases disemboweled before death, hanging in the air. This febriwl
11:31
Speaker 1: thing among the police for a few weeks to the
11:38
Speaker 1: twenty first of March. Two months roughly to the twenty
11:41
Speaker 1: first of March, and between five and twenty thousand people
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Speaker 1: to the police at this police station in Sharpville. This
11:54
Speaker 1: opened fire. Sorry I'm laughing. I'm not. It's not a
11:58
Speaker 1: funny subject. But some of the statistics are. You know,
12:02
Speaker 1: they fired, depending upon whom you believe the official records
12:07
Speaker 1: or unofficial records, somewhere between one thousand, three hundred and
12:11
Speaker 1: forty four and one thousand, five hundred and fifty two
12:14
Speaker 1: rounds in well under five minutes. Those rounds were Sten
12:19
Speaker 1: gun rounds tramatic submachine guns from World War Two in Korea.
12:27
Speaker 1: Assica figures very what I would suggest is the most
12:34
Speaker 1: well figure and middle ground figures. Something like ninety people
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Speaker 1: were shot dead and something like two hundred and thirty
12:45
Speaker 1: forty to fifty wounded. Assaca. I'm not saying that I
12:52
Speaker 1: wouldn't have done the same thing. Heard about my colleagues
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Speaker 1: in Durban disemboweled three nineteen year old white constables. So naturally,
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Speaker 1: have sympathy for your people, your culture, your this is normal.
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Speaker 1: So there were four white guys killed black policemen. Of
13:16
Speaker 1: the four white guys were nineteen year old little boys.
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Speaker 1: As I have a twenty five and a twenty three
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Speaker 1: year old in twenty and a sixteen year old son,
13:27
Speaker 1: so I know that age that boys man. Truly, these
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Speaker 1: policemen in Sharpville were petrified, taking no chances of them
13:38
Speaker 1: had sent There were I think fifty policemen, thirty or fifty,
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Speaker 1: and then they sent another one hundred and thirty to
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Speaker 1: assist them. They held them all for a while, said
13:51
Speaker 1: don't worry, somebody's coming to address your grievances. Just be patient.
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Speaker 1: These police back up guys, and it was a massacre.
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Speaker 1: You may be sympathetic to the police. You may be
14:04
Speaker 1: sympathetic to the people who were objecting. To the pastors
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Speaker 1: was saying, is that sixteen years later they have thought
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Speaker 1: context of the brawl, the fevered atmosphere in South Africa,
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Speaker 1: wisdom would have been applied to the matter, just a dose.
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Speaker 1: I thought about this, and I was speaking to somebody
14:35
Speaker 1: about it, and I said to them, you know, when
14:37
Speaker 1: I turned my mind to with the matter, I didn't
14:39
Speaker 1: even have to apply it. It was the solution was clear
14:41
Speaker 1: to me. Without thinking about it within three seconds. The
14:46
Speaker 1: whole five step process was apparent to me is it
14:48
Speaker 1: doesn't require a brain surgeon. You do as you say, guys.
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Speaker 1: If any situation like this ever arises again, they knew
15:00
Speaker 1: by the way in Soweto there was going to be
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Speaker 1: this children's march, very well known. They have intelligent sources
15:08
Speaker 1: of the whole lot. The team on standby, three teams
15:16
Speaker 1: steam milimeters. I don't know in nineteen seventy six what
15:18
Speaker 1: the technology was eight millimeters, sixteen milimeters. With cameras you
15:24
Speaker 1: just to fend off, yeah, send them, let you within
15:34
Speaker 1: twenty minutes. But our for the sake of caution, film
15:41
Speaker 1: everything as many warnings as you can. Fire tear gas
15:50
Speaker 1: for one full day, Day four, number two, use water cannons,
15:59
Speaker 1: Number three, use rubber bullets. Afternoon only of day number four,
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Speaker 1: use a hard point ammunition. Afterwards we can say, see
16:16
Speaker 1: how hard we try with these people by our best.
16:21
Speaker 1: Instead of giving away all of the high ground in
16:24
Speaker 1: one fell swoop. Remember the oil sellar's embargoed. There wasn't
16:32
Speaker 1: an oil embargo on South Africa as such, but there
16:35
Speaker 1: was an oil seller's embargo so much so you see
16:38
Speaker 1: how all of the stuff is interconnected and people don't
16:40
Speaker 1: stop to think about it. Venue and a live events
16:45
Speaker 1: venue in Johannesburg called Summer Place. The South Africa not
16:50
Speaker 1: half but a bunch of people who watch this video
16:53
Speaker 1: will know Summer Place. Summer Place was the summer home
16:57
Speaker 1: of Adnan Kashogi, the Iranian oil smuggler. I mean, revolution
17:06
Speaker 1: was a blessing for South Africa because in nineteen seventy
17:09
Speaker 1: nine it summarily became a pariah state. We had struggled,
17:14
Speaker 1: you know, there was first of all the nineteen seventy
17:16
Speaker 1: three Arab oil embargo and oatpeck, and then there was
17:19
Speaker 1: the oil shock, and we went through a very rough
17:24
Speaker 1: patch of sanctions and all sorts of things over that
17:26
Speaker 1: period of time. Along comes nineteen seventy nine Aya State,
17:31
Speaker 1: Sheer Muslim state is founded. The first thing we do
17:35
Speaker 1: is send a delegation there to secure oil. The Iranis say, oh,
17:40
Speaker 1: Manna from heaven. We say, yes, Manna from heaven. You
17:47
Speaker 1: they has our man Udnne sought you out. And so
17:52
Speaker 1: we've circumvented this unofficial oil embargo, the oil sellars embargo.
17:58
Speaker 1: Come again to a place. I know, A single boy
18:03
Speaker 1: mooring a boy in the sea as big as this
18:07
Speaker 1: house and I live in It's not my house. I
18:09
Speaker 1: live in an enormous grace and favor house in the
18:12
Speaker 1: Bamboo mountains that because I've been there, filled a kayak
18:19
Speaker 1: from Toty Main Beach all the way up the coast
18:24
Speaker 1: and out around the single boy mooring and around a
18:26
Speaker 1: tanker that was discharging Irani oil there. Chogi built this house,
18:36
Speaker 1: could spend lots of time in Johannesburg. It was a
18:38
Speaker 1: whole big thing. All I'm saying is we didn't need
18:42
Speaker 1: to have so many of these crisis. The French had
18:46
Speaker 1: a contract to supply arms to South Africa, which they
18:49
Speaker 1: terminated in nineteen seventy seven. When the voluntary the United
18:54
Speaker 1: Nations had a voluntary armed sails embargo imposed from the sixties.
19:00
Speaker 1: In seventy seven they ratified it as a mandateory thing
19:08
Speaker 1: immediately contracted, I mean, canceled the contracts with South Africa.
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Speaker 1: All of those dramas that the aparthe society went through precipitated.
19:24
Speaker 1: You only have to look at the timeline. Who doesn't
19:27
Speaker 1: think image of a ten year old killed, carried by
19:38
Speaker 1: an older boy, taken by a clandestinely by a black
19:44
Speaker 1: photographer for the world newspaper became distributed throughout the entire world,
19:56
Speaker 1: so that the black photographer couldn't take the fame, and
20:00
Speaker 1: he immediately retired and went and lived in a little
20:03
Speaker 1: village where the village was located, and spent the rest
20:07
Speaker 1: of his life just living in the village as a
20:09
Speaker 1: traditional African man. I watched an interview with him a
20:18
Speaker 1: little bit of and they could have turned the tables.
20:20
Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies was a totally different era. As
20:24
Speaker 1: sexual morality was different, Church morality was different. Ordinary social
20:31
Speaker 1: mores were different. The language you could use in front
20:34
Speaker 1: of a woman was different. You still had at a
20:38
Speaker 1: country club's ladies' bars. At the country club, you would
20:42
Speaker 1: go into a bar, you had to have a jacket
20:45
Speaker 1: and a tie and so on, and long pants. But
20:48
Speaker 1: in the ladies bar, you couldn't take your jacket off.
20:52
Speaker 1: You weren't allowed to use strong language. In some of them,
20:54
Speaker 1: they wouldn't serve hard liquor. It was a totally different
20:59
Speaker 1: The whole world was a very very different place. If
21:04
Speaker 1: we'd said, you said, we did everything we can. It
21:09
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how hard we try be simply difficult. Vince
21:20
Speaker 1: our most powerful allies and in US at the United Nations,
21:27
Speaker 1: Middle America, Britain, Middle France, put their foots down. Have
21:35
Speaker 1: said to their governments in this ever so much more conservative.
21:44
Speaker 1: Weren't they have no idea the difference then and now
21:49
Speaker 1: all intents and purposes. Okay, I suppose in some in
21:53
Speaker 1: some circles or whatever, no porno monography, none in South Africa.
22:03
Speaker 1: Zero gambling aloud, illegal end of story, abortion, illegal end
22:08
Speaker 1: of story, different epoch, very easy to garner support. Then
22:20
Speaker 1: throw the whole lot out the window, and I'll finish.
22:23
Speaker 1: I know I've been speaking for long now too. This
22:28
Speaker 1: might be one of the things that made people upset
22:31
Speaker 1: Jimmy Krueger the death of Steve Pico's custody in Pretoria
22:38
Speaker 1: from a severe brain trauma as a result of being
22:45
Speaker 1: smashed over the head for days on end. Me cold said, Jimmy,
22:53
Speaker 1: you done? You damned full be how you feel He's
23:01
Speaker 1: going to land us in a world of trouble. I
23:05
Speaker 1: mean to say, to win the argument these barbarians. No,
23:15
Speaker 1: And this is what I'm trying to convey. Did every
23:19
Speaker 1: scenario know everything? When I speak to people in Britain,
23:23
Speaker 1: knowing that that's the audience. Yeah, you later put it
23:26
Speaker 1: on YouTube and what have you, but the core audience
23:29
Speaker 1: I have to our to speak to people who don't
23:35
Speaker 1: know about a subject as well as I can. Doesn't
23:40
Speaker 1: involve as saying, well, the weed comes from and it's
23:44
Speaker 1: deep underground. You know, for fifty nine of the sixty
23:48
Speaker 1: minutes I have to say there are weeds in the garden.
23:50
Speaker 1: It's a problem. We need to get weed killer. Sadly,
23:53
Speaker 1: that's real life in the real world. Stephen Biko might
23:59
Speaker 1: have been in the world. He might have been funded
24:02
Speaker 1: by the Chinese and controlled by the Russians. As you
24:05
Speaker 1: elluded in our previous interview, you were dead right. But
24:07
Speaker 1: I didn't want to get onto that track because experience,
24:13
Speaker 1: we have a tendency, we as conservatives to say that
24:16
Speaker 1: everything is everybody else's fault, the Gays, the Jews, the English,
24:21
Speaker 1: the Americans, the Soviets, the Communists. It's never our fault.
24:29
Speaker 1: Just saying I disagree with the idea that Kruger okay
24:38
Speaker 1: in telling the world Nah black man dead our own care.
24:42
Speaker 1: I think that we handled the sixteenth of June uprisings
24:48
Speaker 1: or not the sixteenth The uprisings were subsequent the initial
24:54
Speaker 1: school children's march, very badly not say no point did
25:00
Speaker 1: I say the Sharpville, same category. I would have done
25:05
Speaker 1: the same thing. If it is true as many as
25:09
Speaker 1: twenty thousand people surrounded that police station. It's true, which
25:14
Speaker 1: it is, Nine policemen were disemboweled before they died to
25:23
Speaker 1: a manna while looking for govin, which is a legitimately
25:27
Speaker 1: evil liquor. I would have said, we walked in with
25:33
Speaker 1: a sten gun, this bolt action rifle. Give me the
25:38
Speaker 1: sten gun, you one hundred rand or whatever the case
25:43
Speaker 1: may be, because I would have been wetting my pants
25:46
Speaker 1: with terror all for just carrying out the inspection of pastbooks.
25:54
Speaker 1: In impost, I'm not saying you're saying if you were
25:56
Speaker 1: a black person, you should have been pleased with passbooks.
25:59
Speaker 1: I am saying there was a reason and enteric fever outbreaks,
26:04
Speaker 1: constant consumption, tuberculosis worsening and worsening and worsening and worsening
26:12
Speaker 1: because of hundreds of thousands of people coming to seek labor.
26:18
Speaker 1: Hest of the mind owners to be controlled. Don't like it.
26:25
Speaker 1: The policeman had to enforce that law. Twenty thousand people,
26:30
Speaker 1: eight weeks after the events in Cato, manner surrounded that
26:33
Speaker 1: police station. Those policemen must have been terrified. I would
26:37
Speaker 1: have said, morality, no morality. I don't want to be
26:40
Speaker 1: dissemboweled today. Thank you give me the automatic weapon. This
26:43
Speaker 1: is human humans. Think like that. Human beings. It's a
26:47
Speaker 1: human beings. React up and make no apology for it.
26:50
Speaker 1: But I would say that Jimmy Krueger could have used
26:52
Speaker 1: a little bit more acumen, more wisdom he handled the
26:58
Speaker 1: Steve Beko death. And think that the apartheid government shot itself.
27:03
Speaker 1: As my brother said to me the other day, he
27:06
Speaker 1: was talking about something that somebody did that was catastrophically stupid.
27:09
Speaker 1: He said, he didn't just shoot himself in the foot
27:11
Speaker 1: for good measure. He shot himself in the head too.
27:14
Speaker 1: And we did that, and we know that we did
27:16
Speaker 1: that because of the UN resolution becoming mandatory in nineteen
27:19
Speaker 1: seventy seven, the French canceling the contracts, and US saying
27:23
Speaker 1: we panicked, We were terrified as a country. How are
27:28
Speaker 1: we going to fend off the communism coming down from
27:33
Speaker 1: the north. I have bullets and guns and corvettes and
27:39
Speaker 1: Mirage aircraft and super free long helicopters and Panhard Levasier
27:47
Speaker 1: armored cars and Saracens and what have you. And we
27:51
Speaker 1: had to frantically put together an arms industry in South Africa,
27:54
Speaker 1: which we ended up doing very well. But people overlook
27:57
Speaker 1: the fact that for about ten years solid were chicken
28:03
Speaker 1: about the advance of communism down not having weapons to
28:07
Speaker 1: defend ourselves against what we perceived to be the millions
28:11
Speaker 1: upon millions upon millions of black people being sponsored by communism.
28:16
Speaker 1: Leave one lost anecdotes. Sorry, Jeremy, sorry, I apologize to you.
28:20
Speaker 1: Opera was funded by either the USA or the United Nations.
28:25
Speaker 1: It was the exercise at the end of a part
28:27
Speaker 1: eight where the outside the goodwill people said, we will
28:34
Speaker 1: pay for the ANC and the South African parth Eid
28:38
Speaker 1: system to destroy a lot of their weapons. Let's, as
28:42
Speaker 1: it were, throw the weapons into the sea. Let us
28:45
Speaker 1: turn into plashes. I'm getting muddled up now and spears
28:51
Speaker 1: into pruning hooks and warfare into goodness and mercy and
28:56
Speaker 1: love and what have you see? Diligence. Ronnie Casserele's boasted
29:04
Speaker 1: that just in Operation Vula vollamines open in Zulu. He
29:09
Speaker 1: bragged that he oversaw the transport of over two million
29:13
Speaker 1: AK forty seven rifles alone, one operation, one instrument of warfare,
29:23
Speaker 1: false cavities, overland tourist trucks, those tourist trucks intimately well
29:36
Speaker 1: earlier case of two or three or four females continental
29:42
Speaker 1: Europe or the USA or Canada, feeling a bit insecure
29:47
Speaker 1: traveling through Africa, but dying to see the cheetahs and
29:50
Speaker 1: the leopards and the Great Rift Allion, what have you.
29:53
Speaker 1: So they come together in a group of thirty. They
29:55
Speaker 1: feel safer and they travel on an overland truck from
29:58
Speaker 1: wherever it can be far north as Scotland. Lord can
30:01
Speaker 1: begin in Egypt, or it can begin just in Ethiopia
30:04
Speaker 1: beneath the Sudan civil war zone, and they travel all
30:08
Speaker 1: the way to Kate out through that means alone Ronnie
30:11
Speaker 1: Castle's brag two million AK forty seven rifles. So you
30:15
Speaker 1: can imagine the number of rifles in South Africa to
30:17
Speaker 1: ten million. Whatever that you were destroyed in Operation Movelo,
30:23
Speaker 1: I'm talking about A and C weapons, thousand two dred thousand.
30:29
Speaker 1: They kept all of those weapons. So nobody has to
30:31
Speaker 1: convince me about the Communists and the Soviets and the
30:35
Speaker 1: and the threats and the I'm not you know, but
30:41
Speaker 1: sometimes be wise. Sometimes it's better to look left and
30:47
Speaker 1: right and left again before you cross the road. That's all.
30:52
Speaker 2: The One of the misconceptions that comes out in every
30:57
Speaker 2: conversation about not just the Sweat Uprising but apartheid as
31:02
Speaker 2: a whole, was that it was an Africana invention.
31:05
Speaker 1: It wasn't. It wasn't. This is something that is always
31:11
Speaker 1: left out. The machinery. The foundation actually came from the
31:16
Speaker 1: British I mean Cecil Rhodes and the Glenn Gray Act
31:20
Speaker 1: of eighteen ninety four, when he effectively segregated black people.
31:29
Speaker 1: That was already way before partet even began.
31:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Jenny, it's and then and then Molner himself,
31:41
Speaker 3: and then Molner himself added to it, I mean the
31:44
Speaker 3: concentration camps. Yeah, which had I mean they had obviously
31:50
Speaker 3: twenty I think I think it was like twenty five
31:52
Speaker 3: or twenty six thousand boors and over one hundred thousand blacks.
32:01
Speaker 1: I go with because SWAT's number, because he has done
32:05
Speaker 1: the best job by far of an academic assessment of
32:11
Speaker 1: these things. So I will go with the number thirty
32:15
Speaker 1: six thousand but who died. But it's not that different
32:20
Speaker 1: to you, and it's not like we're talking talk and cheese.
32:26
Speaker 1: It's a complete fiction. There was a modus vivendi that
32:30
Speaker 1: had been established over centuries between the Africaners and the Blacks.
32:36
Speaker 1: Laws weren't needed. You're over there, we're over here. Don't
32:40
Speaker 1: come and meddle in our affairs, and we'll leave you
32:43
Speaker 1: to your business. We will leave you to your customs
32:45
Speaker 1: and your ways and your your what have you. But
32:48
Speaker 1: when diamonds and then gold were discovered in South Africa
32:52
Speaker 1: in the eighteen sixties and the eighteen eighteen eighties, thish
32:58
Speaker 1: we're frantic to still it all. I mean, the First
33:03
Speaker 1: Boar War began in eighteen seventy for all practical intents
33:07
Speaker 1: and purposes to be beaten off and loan bill. They
33:10
Speaker 1: came back with the biggest force ever assembled, and they
33:16
Speaker 1: won through concentration camps in eighteen ninety nine tenth of
33:21
Speaker 1: October eighteen ninety nine to nineteen h two, depending on
33:26
Speaker 1: how you want to count it. They engaged in the
33:36
Speaker 1: consolidation of South Africa into one entity. Previously you'd had
33:41
Speaker 1: the Cape as a British colony, British colony and transvolt
33:49
Speaker 1: and free state as Boer republics. So now we make
33:53
Speaker 1: one country at one set of laws. Blah blah blah
34:00
Speaker 1: are taken after nineteen oh two. They weren't given to Africaners.
34:04
Speaker 1: They weren't given to British subjects. They weren't given to
34:06
Speaker 1: English speaking South Africans. They weren't given to the blacks,
34:09
Speaker 1: the colors, that is to say, the mixed race people
34:11
Speaker 1: of South Africa who insist upon being called colored. They
34:15
Speaker 1: weren't given to the Indians. They were given to another
34:18
Speaker 1: ethnic group all together. And those people were sitting on
34:24
Speaker 1: head control of the largest load lde load of wealth
34:32
Speaker 1: in the history of the world, did to maximize their
34:36
Speaker 1: profits and they demanded cheap labor. And so it was
34:41
Speaker 1: that although you are right about the Glen Gray Act,
34:44
Speaker 1: are not you You are dead right, you're spot on.
34:46
Speaker 1: But it was then between nineteen oh two and nineteen ten.
34:50
Speaker 1: You could draw it out a little bit more if
34:52
Speaker 1: you like that. They fashioned a system that wasn't about
34:57
Speaker 1: modus vivendi. It wasn't about you go, I'll go mine,
35:01
Speaker 1: and you know, let's keep out of one another's here
35:05
Speaker 1: about ensurings and lots and lots of people that came
35:12
Speaker 1: to live cheek by jowl, the people who didn't really
35:17
Speaker 1: want them there, but they were demanded to be there
35:20
Speaker 1: by the mind owners. Four. You had to have a
35:26
Speaker 1: system of a part eight. The name of part eight
35:29
Speaker 1: wasn't It means a partners in Afrikaans to that system
35:34
Speaker 1: much much much later, not a part eight. It was
35:37
Speaker 1: the British who said, blacks shall not ride on this train.
35:42
Speaker 1: And if they do ride on this train, they must
35:44
Speaker 1: be in the carriages right at the end, and there
35:47
Speaker 1: must be a separation between so that you can't pass
35:49
Speaker 1: from black carriages to white carriages. And black should stand
35:53
Speaker 1: at one end of the railway platform and whites at
35:56
Speaker 1: the other. Blacks may not use the same bridge over
36:00
Speaker 1: the railway tracks to get to the think blah blah
36:02
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So yes, you're correct, Jeremy, it was not.
36:08
Speaker 1: It was not an Africana invention, simply, it just wasn't.
36:15
Speaker 1: But the big thing here is that they did keep
36:21
Speaker 1: it going. And this is one of.
36:23
Speaker 2: The reasons why our previous conversation I think, got a
36:28
Speaker 2: lot of heat from many of those I won't say,
36:34
Speaker 2: I won't say Africanas in general, I think a very small, vocal.
36:40
Speaker 1: Type of.
36:43
Speaker 2: Africana that can't see the appartet government doing anything wrong.
36:48
Speaker 2: And the partet government clearly did do things wrong. They
36:52
Speaker 2: weren't perfect and basically they take offense when you criticize
36:59
Speaker 2: the appointet government. But the reality is that they deserve
37:01
Speaker 2: criticism because they were not morally superior. They they made
37:07
Speaker 2: a lot of errors of judgment and it was not
37:12
Speaker 2: a sustainable system. Simon, not a sustainable system. The explosion
37:18
Speaker 2: in population, you know, treates me that people use to
37:25
Speaker 2: apply their minds to practical reality.
37:27
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to say this, but this is well recorded
37:35
Speaker 1: in the book the audiobook The Narration the Day of
37:38
Speaker 1: the Dead Moon, which in my opinion is one of
37:40
Speaker 1: the two or three finest works bond one about South
37:44
Speaker 1: Africa by David Rattray, who was subsequently murdered Royal Artillery
37:55
Speaker 1: officer recorded the Infant Ninia, the Great Crushing of the
38:00
Speaker 1: early eighteen thirties, where the blacks slaughtered one another, every
38:05
Speaker 1: tribe against every tribe. This was before the Great Trick,
38:08
Speaker 1: so it had nothing to do with with white people
38:11
Speaker 1: competing for black resources. That's false. The Great trick only
38:16
Speaker 1: began in eighteen thirty six. And in those Ox wagons,
38:18
Speaker 1: you know, gettington Natel I took you into the eighteen forties.
38:24
Speaker 1: Any meaningful numbers over the Drakensburg Drakensburg Mountains, I should
38:32
Speaker 1: say for your British audience. His words were, it's diary
38:44
Speaker 1: one third and two thirds of the people were slaughtered.
38:47
Speaker 1: And I am inclined to the latter number. And the
38:55
Speaker 1: I have seen liberal sources give much lower numbers. My
39:01
Speaker 1: opinion is that the population at the beginning of the
39:04
Speaker 1: Great Crushing the Vitani, the black population was about three
39:09
Speaker 1: million ms that at the end of the Great Crushing
39:13
Speaker 1: in the eighteen thirties, the population of South Africa was
39:18
Speaker 1: lets Black population South population was negligible, was one and
39:24
Speaker 1: a half man. Let's say it was two million. Relation
39:29
Speaker 1: of black South Africa today our census statistics are abominable.
39:35
Speaker 1: They having looked at this matter very closely, that it
39:38
Speaker 1: somewhere like sixty million Black African people. But let's make
39:42
Speaker 1: it fifty million. From one million to fifty million years,
39:52
Speaker 1: one hundred and whatever, sixty years, No, simon one hundred
39:56
Speaker 1: and ninety years two have the greatest population explosion in history.
40:04
Speaker 1: There's no other way to achieve that, no way that
40:12
Speaker 1: a tiny white population was forever and ever and ever
40:16
Speaker 1: and ever never, never, ever, going to keep that thing
40:19
Speaker 1: at bay. Been a little bit long winded now, but
40:23
Speaker 1: it's time for us to maybe speak about facts, figures, data, statistics, mathematics, arithmetic.
40:32
Speaker 1: The idea that a part ey could continue forever is
40:37
Speaker 1: a fallacy. And yes, mistakes were made on the way,
40:43
Speaker 1: and everybody makes mistakes, so I tend to turn a
40:47
Speaker 1: blind eye to them, try not to criticize and be
40:50
Speaker 1: too judgmental. But just a mistake that was a catastrophic blunder.
40:59
Speaker 1: I'm talking now about the sixteenth of June, not about
41:02
Speaker 1: sharpfull because I'll tell you what, if five thousand people
41:05
Speaker 1: were surrounding me, I'd bring out a Browning machine gun,
41:09
Speaker 1: met with one of those belts, you know, a million
41:11
Speaker 1: rounds or whatever. A job for checking your past book
41:16
Speaker 1: because the government told me to do so. Because there's
41:19
Speaker 1: a population explosion like the world has never seen in
41:22
Speaker 1: the province of the Transvoile, because the government has forced
41:25
Speaker 1: people to leave Nattel by putting a tax on their huts.
41:30
Speaker 1: Cannot pay because they don't have jobs. They pastoralists. They're
41:33
Speaker 1: heard is they are completely one hundred percent self sufficient,
41:37
Speaker 1: so they have no way of getting an income. So
41:39
Speaker 1: they have to get an income, which means that they
41:41
Speaker 1: have to go and work on the gold mines. That's
41:43
Speaker 1: not my fault as a policeman, go away do but
41:46
Speaker 1: some me, I think, you know, it's not that I
41:55
Speaker 1: deal with conservatives, many of whom are very pro apart eight.
42:00
Speaker 1: So I try not to get involved in these conversations
42:02
Speaker 1: because it just leads to arguments.
42:06
Speaker 2: But the thing, yeah, sorry for jumping in, but I
42:10
Speaker 2: think there is a difference here in what a partheit
42:14
Speaker 2: was and what perhaps Hendry Fovood wanted it to be.
42:20
Speaker 2: And this is often buried, but I mean, as far
42:24
Speaker 2: as I can tell, he did not want what apartheid became.
42:31
Speaker 2: He wanted separate states that were neighbors. And that would
42:36
Speaker 2: have been very different to what we ended up with,
42:41
Speaker 2: because then there wouldn't have been a Part eight.
42:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, yeah, it's no states. Yes, And if I
42:50
Speaker 1: was in charge, that's what I would have done. I
42:55
Speaker 1: can never understand why it wasn't done, but I think
42:58
Speaker 1: that the process was subvert by the internationalists. He was
43:04
Speaker 1: assassinated on the day that he was due to give
43:07
Speaker 1: a speech rescinding the tax exemption of the gold miners.
43:16
Speaker 1: He came into pony says, what's this business that the
43:18
Speaker 1: wealthiest companies in the whole world pay the least tax?
43:24
Speaker 1: He was going to rescind the ten percent company tax special,
43:31
Speaker 1: whatever you call it. There's no doubt in Mama. You know,
43:39
Speaker 1: where there's smoke, there's fire, and when there's a lot
43:41
Speaker 1: of smoke, there's probably a lot of fire. And when
43:44
Speaker 1: you can you know, eventually you have to arrive at
43:47
Speaker 1: the conclusion that South Africa was led by the nose
43:51
Speaker 1: international community for a long long time. As we had
43:54
Speaker 1: the Soviets break South Africa, so too we had international
44:00
Speaker 1: within South Africa subverting what could have been a very
44:05
Speaker 1: successful thing. Ethno states at the southern tip of Africa
44:12
Speaker 1: happened that way.
44:15
Speaker 2: And it was actually the British Empire that created the
44:19
Speaker 2: foundation for apartheid, for the past laws that you were
44:24
Speaker 2: talking about earlier, for the concentration camps, for the segregation, etc.
44:32
Speaker 1: Etc. But that is always suppressed. No well, as I
44:41
Speaker 1: said earlier, it was in the period after the Second
44:43
Speaker 1: World War, the government was the British government. They were
44:47
Speaker 1: governing through their preferred proxies. In this country. There was
44:52
Speaker 1: very little africaner representation until nineteen forty eight, and we
44:57
Speaker 1: only got independence on the thirty first of nineteen sixty.
45:02
Speaker 1: So it was it was British through and through for
45:07
Speaker 1: that that fifty eight you counted, however, you like forty
45:11
Speaker 1: six to fifty eight year period from nineteen oh two,
45:15
Speaker 1: although power over the Cape and the province it was
45:18
Speaker 1: then called an hotel that's now called Quasillu Natel go
45:22
Speaker 1: on hundred and more years before that. I'm exaggerating now
45:27
Speaker 1: call it eighteen oh five in the Cape. You know,
45:33
Speaker 1: the Napoleonic was is a very complicated period from seventeen
45:37
Speaker 1: ninety five to about eighteen oh six is like trying
45:40
Speaker 1: to decipher a ball of spaghetti. No, it was. It
45:45
Speaker 1: was British through and through.
45:47
Speaker 2: And just to add to that, I mean the nineteen
45:50
Speaker 2: eleven Minds Act that was established by the British Right
45:55
Speaker 2: and that effectively created the color bar that puts in
46:00
Speaker 2: a particular segment and blacks in a particular segment of
46:04
Speaker 2: the labor force.
46:06
Speaker 1: The Natives Land Act.
46:07
Speaker 2: This is the famous one, the big one of nineteen thirteen,
46:10
Speaker 2: which officially prohibited blacks from buying land right that was
46:16
Speaker 2: also implemented by the British. That was thirty It was
46:21
Speaker 2: entirely of that convention that was there was what is
46:23
Speaker 2: that thirty five years before A Part eight.
46:29
Speaker 1: I don't really say that A part eight began in
46:32
Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight. I mean, for foot was in the
46:35
Speaker 1: was in the sixties. If you want to use the
46:38
Speaker 1: word A part eight for A part eight, you either
46:40
Speaker 1: have to say again in the nineteen sixties, or you
46:44
Speaker 1: have to say it began immediately after the Second Anglo War,
46:49
Speaker 1: or when when the British passed a series of laws.
46:53
Speaker 1: Find these things which were later molded and refined and
46:57
Speaker 1: chopped up and changed in what have you? But the
46:59
Speaker 1: entire as you used the correct word earlier, Jeremy Tire
47:04
Speaker 1: foundation for the apartheid structure was British through and through.
47:08
Speaker 1: There were no other participants in it. Didn't define it.
47:14
Speaker 1: The colors didn't define it. The Indians of South Africa
47:19
Speaker 1: didn't define it, and the Africans didn't define it. It
47:25
Speaker 1: was British colonial authorities functioning for the most part through
47:32
Speaker 1: English white South Africa. There was some Africanas here in it,
47:37
Speaker 1: but that's not it's to miss the point entirely. If
47:40
Speaker 1: five percent, let's say workforce, it's a one hundred people
47:45
Speaker 1: working for me, ninety five percent of them are let's
47:51
Speaker 1: say Zulus, percent of them are bushmen. To say, well,
47:56
Speaker 1: Gollie g we all had a hand in it is
47:58
Speaker 1: completely misleading. British colonial authorities who built the foundation of
48:05
Speaker 1: a Part eight, all of it English speaking, white South Africa.
48:14
Speaker 1: They're preferred guys places, notably the Orange Free State. English
48:21
Speaker 1: speaking whites were so underrepresented that they were effected. The
48:24
Speaker 1: British were effectively functioning through some Africans. But it was
48:30
Speaker 1: by no stretch of the imagination the invention of the
48:33
Speaker 1: Africana mind. That's a fiction.
48:37
Speaker 2: And had Hendry for Woot's idea actually played art well,
48:42
Speaker 2: the country we live in now would look very, very different,
48:45
Speaker 2: without a doubt, and there wouldn't have been a Part
48:48
Speaker 2: eight and there might have been a very different structure
48:53
Speaker 2: of society today.
49:00
Speaker 1: Always had a soft spot for your viewers that don't
49:04
Speaker 1: know this. It was very famous, highly intellectual, diligent prime
49:12
Speaker 1: minister of South Africa. We had the prime ministerial system
49:15
Speaker 1: after full independence, fact before two. But we did then
49:22
Speaker 1: get a state president. Wasn't queen the queen who was
49:25
Speaker 1: our paramount. He invented a system whereby in three of
49:35
Speaker 1: the four provinces of South Africa, you could argue four
49:40
Speaker 1: of the four they set up independent little homelands, the
49:47
Speaker 1: one for the Zulus, the Arsa people, and one sort
49:54
Speaker 1: of extended one for the the Twina people. It was
49:59
Speaker 1: called Botswana, and then there were others to vendor and
50:04
Speaker 1: so on puts it. Tswana experiment was the most successful
50:11
Speaker 1: of the lot. Remember going to Bobuta, Tswana. I come
50:16
Speaker 1: from a completely different region of the country, but I
50:19
Speaker 1: think I first visited Boatswana before the end of the
50:23
Speaker 1: part eight or shortly after it, and I remember admiring
50:28
Speaker 1: how nicely it had done. It really did nicely. I
50:33
Speaker 1: think that we should have done a better job of
50:39
Speaker 1: of I don't know, but trying to see if that
50:43
Speaker 1: experiment work, I don't know. I think I'm sympathetic to you.
50:51
Speaker 1: But one thing that's certain, Part I couldn't work forever.
50:57
Speaker 1: And it was a word that was used to apply,
51:02
Speaker 1: that was used to describe them an extension of something
51:10
Speaker 1: that whose foundations had been laid totally different. People say
51:20
Speaker 1: the British people, the British colonial authorities then decades and
51:27
Speaker 1: decades previously, and it's a very nuanced conversation. But South
51:34
Speaker 1: Africa today.
51:35
Speaker 2: Is in many ways worse than what it was during
51:38
Speaker 2: their part at era, no two ways about it.
51:43
Speaker 1: If any of your viewers doubt what you're saying, they
51:47
Speaker 1: can search on social media. A condition of Johannesburg CBD
51:54
Speaker 1: today you say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you say worse,
52:01
Speaker 1: it's like in some aspects, ninety five percent worse of
52:08
Speaker 1: Johannesburg is maybe ninety nine percent worse than it was.
52:13
Speaker 1: Of education across South Africa is I don't know what
52:17
Speaker 1: the number is. I haven't done a scholarly study of
52:20
Speaker 1: the thing using original sources, but it might be seventy
52:27
Speaker 1: five percent worse. The condition of health care in South Africa.
52:32
Speaker 1: State healthcare in South Africa is probably ninety to ninety
52:37
Speaker 1: five to ninety seven percent worsection of the roads in
52:43
Speaker 1: South Africa is a fifty to sixty percent worse. Condition
52:49
Speaker 1: of administration, the process of going into an awful government
52:52
Speaker 1: building to go through an administrative exercise is I mean,
52:58
Speaker 1: it's horrible. No damnthing Istaria Ratent is not no damns
53:04
Speaker 1: have been built so been built. There has been not
53:08
Speaker 1: one single improvement to South Africa. And I can say
53:12
Speaker 1: that to the to the liberals who say to me,
53:14
Speaker 1: ah dp RDP. There was a program called the Reconstruction
53:18
Speaker 1: and Development Program and it was meant to be the
53:21
Speaker 1: ANC's flagship product project, whereby they would you know, Whites,
53:31
Speaker 1: I'm going to show you we are our liberal friends.
53:35
Speaker 1: Two thousand and seven eight I was the projects manager
53:42
Speaker 1: of the famous a n C elective conference in the
53:46
Speaker 1: town of Paula Quiney in which one president was booted
53:52
Speaker 1: out and another president came in. So they selecting their
53:55
Speaker 1: guy for the next elections, and they recalled President Tarboronbergie
54:00
Speaker 1: and they put a president Jacob Zuma in they had
54:06
Speaker 1: the main vote. They chased everybody out, you know, a
54:09
Speaker 1: journalists camera mean blah blah blah blah, and they went
54:12
Speaker 1: through about a two hour process of ensuring that every
54:15
Speaker 1: camera that couldn't be moved, big television cameras had been
54:18
Speaker 1: turned off, and they inspected the credentials of every single
54:21
Speaker 1: human being. They threw out most of all of the
54:24
Speaker 1: security that placed them outside rather than the inside. They
54:27
Speaker 1: cleared the backstage area. They chase out all of the
54:31
Speaker 1: not chased out, but gotory of all of my crew.
54:36
Speaker 1: Five of us were allowed to remain off a guy
54:40
Speaker 1: called muby Ma Bazor who comes from my home area,
54:43
Speaker 1: and three sound and audio visual technicians because they couldn't
54:49
Speaker 1: run the thing without us. That they erupted a protest
54:59
Speaker 1: kind of the delegates of the African National Congress. This
55:04
Speaker 1: is the cream of the crop of the sainted.
55:07
Speaker 4: Ash in African National Congress started smashing all of our
55:12
Speaker 4: gear in microphones, at tables, the voting systems, you know,
55:18
Speaker 4: automated voting system.
55:20
Speaker 1: They caused many millions of rand of damage. It just
55:23
Speaker 1: destroyed everything. I said to movie Ma Baso, who I
55:28
Speaker 1: knew very well and who was an A and C
55:30
Speaker 1: activist prior to becoming a lighting technician, What is going
55:39
Speaker 1: on here, Diamond. This is because they built us better
55:46
Speaker 1: schools and clinics and houses than the A and C
55:51
Speaker 1: has done so far, And people are furious with the
55:54
Speaker 1: failure of Nelson Mandela and his successor. Even Julius Willemson
55:59
Speaker 1: tell you everything you need to know. Well, then I
56:01
Speaker 1: don't know. But even Julius Malemma said that it's a
56:06
Speaker 1: it's a dog show. South Africa is an absolute shambles.
56:09
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's shambolic. It's in the true
56:12
Speaker 1: sense of the words you know as shambles. The original
56:15
Speaker 1: meaning of the word was an abbatoi. It's just an
56:18
Speaker 1: orgy of blood and guts and snot and teeth and it's.
56:24
Speaker 2: And people don't understand that. It's very very dangerous living
56:30
Speaker 2: in South Africa.
56:32
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if.
56:36
Speaker 2: Where you are, if it's the same in Cape Town
56:38
Speaker 2: or in Jannersburg. You women can't drive alone at night,
56:42
Speaker 2: for example, or.
56:45
Speaker 1: Defend it. No no no no no no no no
56:51
Speaker 1: no no no no no no.
56:52
Speaker 2: And yes, yes the other thing right. I think it
56:54
Speaker 2: was twenty twenty three we had an average of eight
56:58
Speaker 2: hours per day of no electricity.
57:04
Speaker 1: Yes, that's the figure that was given. But I did
57:07
Speaker 1: some work on it at the time concluded that it
57:11
Speaker 1: was twelve hours a day that we were being bulldusted.
57:14
Speaker 1: Because I was toting up all the figures. I was
57:16
Speaker 1: on one of those appsences how much is it out here?
57:20
Speaker 1: And what is the timetable over there? And over a
57:23
Speaker 1: couple of weeks process. So I'm not saying I know
57:26
Speaker 1: better than you. My figures are right, your figures are wrong.
57:28
Speaker 1: They were saying eight hours, but I kept on producing
57:31
Speaker 1: videos in which I was saying, guys, here are the numbers.
57:34
Speaker 1: One plus one equals two plus one equ was three
57:36
Speaker 1: plus forty five plus sixty bad. It was that I
57:41
Speaker 1: could make a studied case, a statistical case, twelve hours
57:51
Speaker 1: a day, every single man, woman and child on a
57:54
Speaker 1: rotational basis didn't have electricity in this country. But holden,
57:58
Speaker 1: I just want to clarify.
57:59
Speaker 2: It wasn't only twenty twenty three we've been having Okay,
58:02
Speaker 2: so we say load shedding in South Africa, but it's
58:05
Speaker 2: running blackouts. That's the blackouts. Okay, We've been having blackouts
58:10
Speaker 2: since what twenty ten.
58:12
Speaker 1: Twenty eight Because when they first occurred, I remember where
58:15
Speaker 1: I was, and I remember what the debate was because
58:19
Speaker 1: I was very heavily involved in the World Cup in
58:22
Speaker 1: twenty ten, so it was pertinent that I should be
58:26
Speaker 1: in circles where this debate should happen. Is South Africa
58:29
Speaker 1: capable of executing the twenty ten World Cup? And one
58:34
Speaker 1: of my contacts, a very very influential guy told me
58:38
Speaker 1: that the United States of America had volunteered to take
58:42
Speaker 1: over the twenty ten World Cup of Football from South
58:45
Speaker 1: Africa because it was looking that shaky that they wouldn't
58:48
Speaker 1: be able to pull it, that we wouldn't be able
58:50
Speaker 1: to pull it off. So eight I was present, and I.
58:56
Speaker 2: Want to also point out we have been speaking this
58:59
Speaker 2: entire conversation very domestically. A large amount of what we
59:03
Speaker 2: talk about has had foreign influence, and I want to
59:07
Speaker 2: emphasize that again, foreign influence has always been a big factor,
59:13
Speaker 2: but that's generally a separate discussion, although it's also related,
59:18
Speaker 2: but that hasn't been the focus of this discussion.
59:22
Speaker 1: Way to understand South Africa is think of a Monopoly game.
59:28
Speaker 1: Any Saturday afternoon. Eight children gather, one's got the top hat,
59:32
Speaker 1: one's got the ship. Eight children gather to play Monopoly.
59:37
Speaker 1: South Africa is not, never has been, and never will
59:40
Speaker 1: be one of the eight. Or let's say Monopoly could
59:45
Speaker 1: have twenty children, one of the twenty most important countries
59:50
Speaker 1: in the world. It may just be the most important
59:55
Speaker 1: non player, the most important property in the world. To
59:59
Speaker 1: this day, geological survey says that South Africa has over
1:00:07
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the world's underground gold reserves just eighty
1:00:13
Speaker 1: three percent of the world's chromium. And in the modern world,
1:00:16
Speaker 1: chromium is a multiple. You know, it's in everything. I
1:00:19
Speaker 1: only have to look at anything that is shiny to
1:00:23
Speaker 1: know it. Excuse me, use eighty three percent of the
1:00:27
Speaker 1: world's chromium. We produce forty three percent of the world's
1:00:32
Speaker 1: manganese used for hardening steel, so it's a very very
1:00:38
Speaker 1: very important metal in the modern world. Excuse me. We
1:00:45
Speaker 1: have uranium, and we have diamonds and so on. So
1:00:49
Speaker 1: maybe we're not the most valuable non player country in
1:00:53
Speaker 1: the in the world, but we might be. We are
1:00:58
Speaker 1: most certainly on that home street, you know, the fourth
1:01:01
Speaker 1: street in the Monopoly game, because we have tremendous, tremendous
1:01:08
Speaker 1: world beating resources. I've just mentioned a few. The interest
1:01:15
Speaker 1: of foreigners in this country is never going to go away.
1:01:19
Speaker 1: We also control the Southern Sea route, so you can
1:01:22
Speaker 1: imagine for yourself. Selma Cogliano going on with shipping video recently,
1:01:29
Speaker 1: it's the best source on the Strait of hor moves.
1:01:32
Speaker 1: By the way, if anybody listening is by what's happening
1:01:35
Speaker 1: there is what's going on with shipping. Selma Cogliano did
1:01:39
Speaker 1: a You know, he's a professor, so he produces very
1:01:42
Speaker 1: scholarly stuff in which he showed that over fifty percent
1:01:46
Speaker 1: of the world's West East East West Africa shipping that
1:01:53
Speaker 1: would to typically go through the Strait of hor moves
1:01:56
Speaker 1: a big aparton, through the Suez Canal, through the Red Sea,
1:02:01
Speaker 1: going around the cape in the event of Red Sea
1:02:08
Speaker 1: slash straight off Hormu's closure, ructions drama missiles flying overhead.
1:02:13
Speaker 1: We control the premiere route of the entire world. So yeah,
1:02:20
Speaker 1: they are forever meddling. We will never not have interference
1:02:25
Speaker 1: in this country. We're just too valuable to the greatest
1:02:30
Speaker 1: actual interests build.
1:02:34
Speaker 2: So the moral of the story is that if you're
1:02:37
Speaker 2: offended by a more nuanced, slash truthful perspective on Sweata
1:02:45
Speaker 2: uprising and all the related talking points to do with
1:02:49
Speaker 2: the part sorry for.
1:02:51
Speaker 1: You, it's you can't be off if you look at
1:02:59
Speaker 1: it objectively, if you honest. There are two sides to
1:03:03
Speaker 1: every story. It may be it's like a divorce. It
1:03:08
Speaker 1: may be the husband bashed the wife. You know, Nelson
1:03:13
Speaker 1: Mandela famously his wife secured a divorce when you could
1:03:17
Speaker 1: not secure a divorce in South Africa, she was able
1:03:22
Speaker 1: to demonstrate to the judge Nelson Mandela had beaten her unconsciously,
1:03:31
Speaker 1: to her so badly that you would be unconscious. And
1:03:34
Speaker 1: it happened many, many, many times. So she eventually got
1:03:36
Speaker 1: a divorce his first wife. Sometimes it's that cut and dried.
1:03:41
Speaker 1: But there's also the instance where the husband says, your honor,
1:03:46
Speaker 1: put me in jail. It is the shame of my
1:03:48
Speaker 1: life that I lifted my hand to my wife. However,
1:03:51
Speaker 1: your honor, when you put me in jail, check the
1:03:55
Speaker 1: CCTV camera footage first, Because I beat her once, not
1:03:59
Speaker 1: ten times. Surely that must count for something. Didn't make
1:04:03
Speaker 1: her unconscious. And by the way, here is hard proof
1:04:07
Speaker 1: that she slept with another man. Here is hard proof
1:04:10
Speaker 1: that she hasn't cooked a meal for the children in
1:04:12
Speaker 1: three months. Put me in jail, but put me on
1:04:14
Speaker 1: the in jail on the basis of what I did,
1:04:17
Speaker 1: I didn't do. That's that's the moral of the story
1:04:22
Speaker 1: of these two interviews that I've done with you, these
1:04:26
Speaker 1: two recent ones. In the conversation I held with with
1:04:30
Speaker 1: Peter and Johannesburg yesterday in which he invited me five
1:04:33
Speaker 1: times and once again this morning after he was fury,
1:04:35
Speaker 1: he was beyond glivid. He was inviting me to have tea.
1:04:39
Speaker 1: You know stood, now that's now, that's my way of
1:04:46
Speaker 1: saying yes to you. Jeremy. Okay, Simon, how can I
1:04:50
Speaker 1: follow you? Blonders is a civil defense organization DEVOTE and
1:04:55
Speaker 1: I'm a salaried member that they pay for me to
1:04:59
Speaker 1: be here. Devoted to the erection of a national emergency
1:05:02
Speaker 1: plan in the event of a catastrophe in South Africa.
1:05:05
Speaker 1: If your viewers would like to donate to that, they
1:05:08
Speaker 1: can visit sat Lander's You can see the spelling behind
1:05:11
Speaker 1: me suid landers dot org. Please make a donation. Otherwise,
1:05:16
Speaker 1: just search against my name. We were all over the internet.
1:05:20
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jeremy.
1:05:22
Speaker 2: As always, Simon, thank you for joining the Inventios.