Latest / Pastor John Piper's answers / Why Do Citations in the Bible Seem Sloppy?

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Why Do Citations in the Bible Seem Sloppy? · Pastor John Piper's answers

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  Speaker 1: Well. Happy Labor Day to you listening in the States.
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  Speaker 1: I hope you are enjoying some well deserved rest today.
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  Speaker 1: And today on this holiday we ask why are the
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  Speaker 1: Bible citations in the Bible so sloppy? It's the question
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  Speaker 1: today about a text in our Bible reading later in
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  Speaker 1: the week, and Jesse wrote in to ask it. Pastor John,
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  Speaker 1: Hello to you. I've always been intrigued, in a little
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  Speaker 1: confused by Hebrews two six, where the writer quotes the
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  Speaker 1: question what is man that you are mindful of him?
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  Speaker 1: Or the son of Man that you care for him?
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  Speaker 1: But doesn't directly attribute it to Psalm eight four. It
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  Speaker 1: almost sounds like the author is saying, I remember reading
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  Speaker 1: a verse somewhere, but I'm not exactly sure where it's from.
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  Speaker 1: I'm left wondering did the author genuinely forget the source
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  Speaker 1: or is there something deeper going on here. This phrasing
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  Speaker 1: feels odd because it seems to undercut the credibility of
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  Speaker 1: referencing scripture. If the author can't remember exact exactly where
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  Speaker 1: a quote comes from, does that mean the reference isn't trustworthy?
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  Speaker 1: Or is this just a casual, impromptu way of handling scripture?
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  Speaker 1: Or is there something more intentionally happening that we might
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  Speaker 1: be missing. As a reader, I'm trying to understand the
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  Speaker 1: author's purpose and phrasing it this way. Does it challenge
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  Speaker 1: the precision we expect in citing scripture ourselves, or is
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  Speaker 1: it a subtle way of showing a deeper trust than
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  Speaker 1: the scriptures itself, not as isolated texts, but as part
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  Speaker 1: of a larger, interconnected story. I'd love to hear your
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  Speaker 1: thoughts on what we can learn about handling scripture ourselves.
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  Speaker 2: What's most impressive about this question is that it contains
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  Speaker 2: some pretty good answers. And this happens a lot. People
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  Speaker 2: think about their questions and they chip impossible answer to say,
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  Speaker 2: so let me try to see what I can add here.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's helpful to keep in mind that the
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  Speaker 2: chapter divisions that we have in our Bibles did not
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  Speaker 2: exist until the thirteenth century after Christ They were added
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  Speaker 2: by Stephen Langton a lecture at the University of Paris
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  Speaker 2: like in the early twelve hundreds, and the verse divisions
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  Speaker 2: were added about three hundred years later, which implies that
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  Speaker 2: for over a thousand years, if you can imagine, including
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  Speaker 2: the time of the New Testament, all the preaching, all
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  Speaker 2: the theological debates, all the personal uses of the Bible
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  Speaker 2: were carried on by quoting scripture in fairly loose ways
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  Speaker 2: because there was no precise way to locate the statements.
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  Speaker 2: So even today, those of us who are immersed in
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  Speaker 2: chapters and divisions of scripture in verses, we often have
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  Speaker 2: to remind ourselves that we don't remember where they're coming from.
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  Speaker 2: We say to people, I don't know where it is,
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  Speaker 2: I just know it's there, And that does not diminish
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  Speaker 2: the credibility of the Bible. When we talk like that. However,
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  Speaker 2: we need to qualify what I just said slightly because
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  Speaker 2: the Psalms, which is what we're talking about here, Psalm eight,
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  Speaker 2: quoted in Hebrews two. The Psalms were different in that
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  Speaker 2: they did have numbers, evidently from the very beginning when
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  Speaker 2: they were gathered into one book. Luke twenty forty two
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  Speaker 2: talks about the Book of Psalms, and we know that
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  Speaker 2: the psalms were numbered in that book because in Acts
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  Speaker 2: thirteen thirty three Paul refers to the second Psalm and
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  Speaker 2: he quotes Palm two. And it's interesting, I think, and
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  Speaker 2: I think significant for Jesse's question that two verses later
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  Speaker 2: in Acts thirteen thirty five, Paul says, therefore, he also
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  Speaker 2: says in another Psalm. Right after saying Psalm too, he
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  Speaker 2: quotes another psalm indefinite. So it appears that Paul knows
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  Speaker 2: the psalms have numbers, but doesn't feel the need to
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  Speaker 2: give those numbers every time he quotes a psalm. The
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  Speaker 2: question that Jesse asks has to do with the Book
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  Speaker 2: of Hebrews, of course, and specifically Chapter two, verse six,
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  Speaker 2: where the writer says it has been testified somewhere and
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  Speaker 2: then quotes Psalm eight, and Jesse wonders if this indefiniteness
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  Speaker 2: is owing to a lack of memory or some other reason.
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  Speaker 2: I think it would be helpful, at least it was
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  Speaker 2: for me in thinking about this, to notice how this
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  Speaker 2: writer introduces scripture quotations in the rest of his book.
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  Speaker 2: It's interesting, Maybe the most significant observation is that he
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  Speaker 2: never cites scripture by giving a specific location, not even
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  Speaker 2: as close as giving a numbered psalm. Instead, he uses
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  Speaker 2: references like no introduction at all and just starts quoting
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  Speaker 2: scripture or it is said, or Moses said, or in
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  Speaker 2: the Law, or God said through David or the Holy
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  Speaker 2: Spirit says. All of those are his ways of introducing
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  Speaker 2: Bible quotations. But the most common way to cite scripture
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  Speaker 2: in the Book of Hebrews is simply to say, he said,
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  Speaker 2: which is really remarkable when you think about it, he
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  Speaker 2: said in the context knowing it's either God or it's
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  Speaker 2: Christ that he's quoting. So what's plain is that this
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  Speaker 2: writer regards the Hebrew Scriptures, what we call the Old Testament,
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  Speaker 2: as the very words of God. He quotes them that
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  Speaker 2: way over and over. He makes the explicit by simply
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  Speaker 2: quoting God or the Holy Spirit or the Son of God.
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  Speaker 2: So he basically agrees with Paul's statement in two Timothy
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  Speaker 2: three sixteen that all scripture, the whole Old Testament, is
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  Speaker 2: inspired by God. Then add to this the vast knowledge
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  Speaker 2: that this writer has of the Old Testament. Oh, my goodness.
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  Speaker 2: The Book of Hebrews is basically one extended meditation on
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  Speaker 2: the Old Testament scriptures. And when you read the litany
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  Speaker 2: of the people mentioned in chapter eleven, you realize how
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  Speaker 2: extensive this man's knowledge of the whole Bible is. So
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  Speaker 2: putting it all together, namely, the absence of chapter and
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  Speaker 2: verse divisions, and two the consistent reference to God as
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  Speaker 2: the one who's speaking in the Old Testament, and three
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  Speaker 2: the extensive knowledge that he has of the Old Testament.
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  Speaker 2: It seems to me that there is little evidence to
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  Speaker 2: suggest that this loose way of referring to Psalm eight
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  Speaker 2: in Hebrews two six is is evidence of carelessness or forgetfulness.
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  Speaker 2: There's just no reason to think that he is being
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  Speaker 2: careless here. And I might add that even if he
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  Speaker 2: did forget the number of the Psalm, it would not
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  Speaker 2: undermine our belief in the inspiration of the Bible. God's
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  Speaker 2: guidance in the process of inspiration doesn't mean that human
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  Speaker 2: writers are omniscient all knowing. Rather, it means that God
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  Speaker 2: protected them from any error in what they intended to communicate.
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  Speaker 2: There's an example of Paul forgetting something in First Corinthians
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  Speaker 2: one fourteen that illustrates the point, and he shows in
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  Speaker 2: the very process of his forgetting, how he, with God's guidance,
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  Speaker 2: corrects any possible misunderstanding of the point here it is
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  Speaker 2: this is First Corinthians one fourteen. I thank God that
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  Speaker 2: I baptized none of you except Christmus and Gaeis, so
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  Speaker 2: that no one may say that I that they were
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  Speaker 2: baptized by me or into my name. I did baptize
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  Speaker 2: also the household of Steffanas. Beyond that, I don't know
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  Speaker 2: whether I baptized anybody else, for Christ did not send
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  Speaker 2: me to baptize. So Paul, he just has to say, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: I was going to tell you what the limits were,
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  Speaker 2: but really I don't remember what the limits were. I
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  Speaker 2: just know they were small. So our confidence in the
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  Speaker 2: inspiration of scripture need not rely on the writer's being
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  Speaker 2: able to remember matters that don't affect the meaning of
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  Speaker 2: their texts. It is a precious thing to have in
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  Speaker 2: our hands, a book that has been given to us
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  Speaker 2: by God, inspired with his meaning, preserved over the centuries
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  Speaker 2: for our faith. It is a precious and great gift.
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  Speaker 2: And I hope you immerse yourself in it every day.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and worthy of daily immersion. Read the Bible daily
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  Speaker 1: that conviction. That discipline comes with challenges, of course, which
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  Speaker 1: is why we have dozens of episodes covering a host
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  Speaker 1: of very practical tips on overcoming the challenges of studying
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  Speaker 1: the Bible for ourselves, everything from choosing a Bible translation
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  Speaker 1: to how do we do Bible memorization, even the struggle
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  Speaker 1: will inevitably feel when it comes to Bible neglect, when
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  Speaker 1: the Bible feels boring. All those topics I've been covered
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  Speaker 1: over the course of many years in many episodes on
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  Speaker 1: the podcast to put together into one big digest to
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  Speaker 1: show you all the ground that we've covered in the
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  Speaker 1: Aspestro John book in that first huge section from pages
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  Speaker 1: one to forty six. I've got a lot of great
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  Speaker 1: feedback on that that was helpful to sort of bring
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  Speaker 1: together all these things that Pastor John has helped us
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  Speaker 1: learn about the practices and discipline of Bible reading and
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  Speaker 1: Bible memorization into one place. I hope it serves you well.
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  Speaker 1: Are you drifting spiritually? And would you even feel it
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  Speaker 1: if you were drifting? An urgent question from Haley and
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  Speaker 1: a time we went too because we read Hebrews two
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  Speaker 1: this week, where we are warned that we must pay
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  Speaker 1: much closer attention to what we have heard lest we
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  Speaker 1: drift away from it. That's next. I'm Tony Rank. I'll
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  Speaker 1: see you Thursday.