Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Calling All Kindred Spirits | An Advent & Enneagram conversation with Rachel Dodge

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Calling All Kindred Spirits | An Advent & Enneagram conversation with Rachel Dodge · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever longed for a bosom friend?
0:03
SPEAKER_01: Or is a visit to see the Lake of Shining Waters on your bucket list?
0:08
SPEAKER_01: If you know what I mean, then you are most likely a fellow Anne of Greengables friend.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't know, and you've somehow missed The Timeless Tale by L.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: M.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Montgomery, then let me have the pleasure of introducing you.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Some of your favorite episodes of this podcast have been when I've taken our favorite movie or book characters and shamelessly typed them.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: It really is just a fun way to explore character development, story, and some general Enneagram insights.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: So I've invited a new kindred spirit, Rachel Dodge, for another thrilling Enneagram and movie conversation.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Rachel has just written and released one of the most beautiful books of 2020.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: It's a chapter-by-chapter companion for the classic book of Anne of Green Gables.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Her new devotional book offers inspiration as it explores the theme of God's love and faithfulness of the classic tale of Anne.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: The artwork combined with scripture, life application questions, and prayers, makes this one of the most perfect gifts to give this season.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: And this conversation?
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's bound to be one you'll want to listen the whole way through and then share with all of your bosom friends.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: Really, Rachel has done something incredibly profound in her devotional book.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: You'll want to hear all about her journey and vision behind her words.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: Plus, we have some fun Enneagram typing of some of our favorite characters.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: You'll need to make sure you join the conversation about each character, plus get a sneak peek of the stunning illustrations from her new devotional book on Instagram at Simply Wholehearted.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, in case you missed it, this year I've also recreated my Enneagram gift giving guide.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful printout designed to help you understand what each type really wants and why their wish list looks the way it does.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: I've also added 10 customized gift tags that you can print and use for your one-of-a-kind selections this year.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: I know many of you have used my previous gift guide, which gave you some big wins for Christmases in the past, and you've mentioned you've used it for gift shopping all year long.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Snag the wholehearted gift guide to get your shopping done a little earlier this year with less stress.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm a Christian Enneagram coach for Mom, who loves to share resources which help you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: I was overwhelmed by motherhood, and I struggled to understand my true motivation.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: But the Lord didn't let me stay there.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: He helped me turn those challenging moments of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my marriage, and my kids.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: I share a broken-hearted perspective of story.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: But with wholehearted purpose and plans, you can live a life full of courage and abundance.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: So get to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Get ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: Rachel, I'm so excited to share your work with my friends here, especially.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: I just think it's your content makes some of the best Christmas gifts.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I've invited you on the show to be part of our Advent series.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: This is our fourth annual Advent series.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: I always want to do something fun, like I've done Enneagram and the movies before.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: And we did Little Women and we did Downton Abbey, and that has been so much fun.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't care if anybody else is having fun because I'm having fun.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: And that's Christmas to me.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: So this is why I've invited you on.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And I also kind of feel like, well, Anna Green Gables is one of my all-time favorite books to read and movies to watch.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: And I tend to watch them and reread them over Christmas or January, kind of in that time.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: And you have created a phenomenal work.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about what you've done with the Anna Green Gables story.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: I wrote a devotional book that's based on Anna Green Gables, and it's meant to be a companion.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: So you can actually read the book, and then for each chapter of Anna Green Gables, there's a corresponding chapter in the devotional.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: So each chapter has an entry that relates to it from the book.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: And so you can, you know, read through Anna Green Gables and do the devotional with it.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Or if you're just already a fan, you can read the devotional.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Um and I did make it so that people could read it even if they haven't, you know, read Anna Green Gables or maybe they've just seen the movies.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, but each devotional has there's 38 chapters in the book.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: So I did 38 devotionals and then two bonuses at the end just to make an even 40, since you know, 40-day devotional is cool and it's biblical.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, when I got my book in the mail, and it was kind of one of those things, I think I didn't get the mail on Saturday.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: And so it was Sunday after church for some reason.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, I need to check my mailbox.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: And I saw the package, and I get books very frequently.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I'm like, why to be totally honest.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: But not this time.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: I opened it up and I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know anything like this existed.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: So I was super thrilled to get it.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: It is gorgeous.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: And as I was reading through it, I would definitely echo your sentiments.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: You could read it along with a companion guide, but you could also read it individually, which I think is really fun for maybe someone who's just, you know, like you're even wanting to spark curiosity with your teenagers or teenage girls.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: It's a great gift idea to give them and have them start reading in that one.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: And the book is so sweet because there's illustrations throughout, which is not typical for most devotionals.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: So there are original artwork, the cover is so pretty.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: Barbara Books just did a great job.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: And the illustrator was Jana Christie.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: And so she just caught that whimsy and that just the beauty of Anna Green Gables.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: So that just adds the experience as you go through all the little details that were put into the book's design, even make it such a pretty gift and such a fun devotional, even just to open.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: It's very inviting the way it looks.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: And then I hope, you know, each devotional entry that I wrote, I meant for it to be very warm and inviting that people want to sit down because sometimes, you know, we put off our devotions till later in the day and later in the day.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's meant to be a book that you see and go, oh, I gotta go sit down and I want to read it.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: I love that idea.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: It kind of uh a little bit of a carrot to get that rhythm going and that habit going.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: I think that's really, really good.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Jana Christie, uh her illustrations are phenomenal.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: I feel so honored.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get to do a series.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: If you're listening to this um conversation when it goes live, I'll do a corresponding week where I'm gonna post the illustrations and kind of talk about the possible Enneagram types of characters in Anna Green Gables.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: So that's gonna be super fun.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna talk about Enneagram and Anna Green characters here in a minute and your Enneagram type because it's what we do here as an Enneagram coach.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: I can't help myself.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: But first of all, I would love to know a little bit of the backstory behind getting to write a book like this.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: One, I'm a little bit envious because I think what a phenomenal opportunity.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: It'd be so fun to write a devotional on Anna Green Gables.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: But what led you to even explore that idea and think about interjecting scripture and just wisdom for women of all ages?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: So the backstory, I guess, is it started a few years even before this devotional.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: I was given the opportunity, or the Lord opened the door for me to write a book, a devotional book based on Jane Austen's prayers called Praying with Jane, 31 Days to the Prayers of Jane Austen.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: And that has its whole story, of course, total God's story, how that came about.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: You might have to come back for that one.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I've been teaching writing and literature classes for over 15 years and doing Jane Austen talks and book talks at libraries and book clubs and literary groups.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of my thing.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: And then I love doing Bible study.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: I love writing devotional um types of writing on my blog and just, you know, for our church women's Bible study, I've helped over the years.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: And so when I had the idea to write the Jane Austen book, when that all came together, then it just brought together all of that love for literature and the joy of studying the Bible and writing devotions and encouraging women in their devotional lives.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: And so then once that book came out in 2018, and so a year after that, I remember I just kept thinking if I could ever write another devotional book based on a classic book, it would be Anna Green Gables.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: And so I just knew that was I had to at least try, you know, I was like, that's the next project.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of ideas out there, there's lots of fun books I could work with, but that is my probably all-time favorite book that I grew up with and I go back to all the time.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: It's such a comfort read.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: And there's so many neat spiritual themes in it.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: So it was such a joy to write.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: I know it was really was a God story, you know, just how those doors opened and how the Lord opened doors that I didn't even know could open.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: So it was it was very sweet to get this opportunity.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, super fun.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: And at the way you drew life lessons out of there and biblical connection.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you had to stretch it.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh yeah, of course.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: You illuminated what was already pinned and um you did a beautiful job.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: So it's super fun.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm kind of curious.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm so grateful.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Grateful that you did it, and I'm excited to dive into the content with my girls for sure.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Because I have almost 14, almost 13, and so this is perfect.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: They do love the Anna Green Gable story, yes.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna definitely do this as a mother-daughter, just fun bonding experience in the new year.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited for that for sure.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Now I would love to hear because we talk about Enneagram and we're gonna get into the characters and stuff.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: And I always preface the conversation here is that we're not a type, we're a child of God, and we get the opportunity to reflect the nature and the character in a more prominent way for each of us because we hold all nine types, but we tend to lead with the dominant type.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm curious to know what yours is and maybe understanding how understanding the Enneagram for you has been beneficial in your life.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: I would say I started learning about and hearing about Enneagram typing probably two years ago or so, and all of my friends started talking about it, and I listened to different podcasts that would talk about it.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I took like the online test and I always come up type one.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: I knew that a lot of people say you need to keep reading a lot and you know, kind of make sure the tests aren't always correct.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: But the more I've read, the more I've listened, the more I've listened to like podcasts where people will talk about kind of how it looks in real life.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: Definitely seem to be a one.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Definitely the very organized-driven, orderly type of person.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if I would call myself a perfectionist because I I know I can't have everything perfect, but it's something I have to fight against to try to have everything perfect all the time.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: Definitely always trying to make things better around me.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: So I kind of relate to the, you know, the reformer in that way, just wanting life to be orderly, wanting relationships to be in balance, wanting I'm a like list-oriented checklist.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Um then the thing that really got me though is the kind of the inner critic or the the judge that's inside.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: And I always I feel like I have like a commentator in my head, sort of, and I didn't realize that wasn't normal for everyone until I started looking into Enneagram.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, for me, it's almost like this other voice that's always kind of commenting or talking about what I should do or how I'm doing it, or even myself explaining why I'm doing something the way I do it versus how someone else might think I should do it, if that makes sense.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: So I'm always kind of balancing that, I guess, voices in my head.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: That sounds kind of creepy, but you know, the different, well, I would do it this way.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would do it this way.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: And then in my head, I'm thinking, well, I'm gonna do it this way because I've learned that this works better than this.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: And if anyone asks, I will do it this way and I'll explain it why I did it this way.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: It's it's a strange little ongoing conversation in my head.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think that kind of helped it click a little more too, because I am very creative, I am very in touch with my emotions and all of that, but that orderliness and that inner critic seems to kind of put me more toward the one.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: And I I tend to think too, we um have a, it's actually called technically a tri-type.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: And it's this idea that we're maybe born with a dominant type, which is more my school of thought.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's the lens that we tend to process our childhood experiences, uh, parent, uh, child connection.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: But then we also tend to develop two other stronger types in our life, and one formed in our family of origin, and then one often immediately after we leave home.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: And whether that's through our college experience or even marriage, maybe we had, you know, had kids early, and some of those tendencies um start to develop.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: And so, and then plus there's all the lines of stress and growth and wings, and so those all play into it too.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: So I love how you've processed through and identified that being kind of the big key.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Because for you, um, did it begin to start helping you not only understand that you not everyone has the inner critic, but there's also others who have an inner critic and understand what you're going through.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me, it's once I realized that was there, it helped me because I don't realize I'm really hard on myself, but the people who know me best, you know, my husband and friends and family, um, sometimes point that out, you know, that I do just keep pushing until I get to whatever goal it is that I've set for myself.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times I've usually set too high of a goal or too many things to do in one day or whatever.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: I think because I have that inner critic, I'm very, very aware of that and always have been my whole life.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: I never want to hurt someone's feelings or put too much pressure on them or give them like a way they have to do something.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if that's typical of a one, but for me, it's taught me to be really careful because I know if I said, okay, you need to do this this way, and someone was like me, they would then feel the need to live up to exactly what that bar had been set rather than saying you could try it this way or you could do it this way, whatever you think.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: But you know, sometimes it works better this way.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: I try to like leave some room, I guess, for other people that might have that inner critic that's going, okay, I have to get this exactly right.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: So it's birth a sense of compassion and understanding grace to extend to others.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: I think that's really great.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: That can be your superpower if you can grapple with it for yourself.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Like if I want to receive mercy and grace, which I do, and we get from the Lord unendingly, then we can offer it to others.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really cool.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Well, we did do a little talking ahead of time about Enneagram characters and Anna Green Gables.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: So we've had some opportunity to formulate our thoughts, and I thought it would be fun.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: We probably won't get to cover everyone.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna try, but what will be fun is that those of you who listen hop on to Instagram at simply wholehearted and we can continue the conversation there.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: I also give this caveat when it comes to movies and when it comes to book characters, we have to recognize two things.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: One is they're a one-dimensional person.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: And so this is a written fictional character, it's not real people.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: And I know people like to discuss historical figures and stuff, and there we can maybe get a more full or clearer picture of them.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, the second thing is I think an amazing author like Ellen Montgomery, I feel like she's probably was a four herself, an Enneagram four.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: So a deep feeler and um expressive, obviously, a noticer, the way she captured surroundings and described them and all the elements that a four man, they have awesome gifts for that.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: And um, so that can happen is the author or the you know, writer, director will interject their own experience into the characters.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: So, that being said, we're gonna talk about some of the characters and just have fun going through some of those.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: So, why don't we start first with the main one, of course?
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Anne herself and Shirley, and with an E.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear your thoughts.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: I found it kind of hard to type.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: I asked a bunch of friends and I actually did Facebook just to see because I'm like, I relate to Anne so much.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So I see her one side probably.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: I see like how driven she is, how she has that inner critic.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: She's always trying to like make herself better.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: She tends to get down on herself sometimes.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I know that what it was kind of fun.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: I think this is the fun part is that passionate people are about their most people were adamant that she's a four because she's such a feeler, she's up and down with her feelings, she can get into that even melancholy at times, and she's very creative and all of that.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: And I guess a lot of people their argument was her desire for a sense of belonging somewhere and feeling like she's never kind of found her spot.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: I would argue when that's partly because she was orphaned.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: And so when she finds her home, she blossoms and finds her spot.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: So um I'm curious what you think, but it was fun just to see.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: People were very passionate when I put the little poll on Facebook.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: It was super fun to hear their thoughts.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: I know, I kind of did it.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: So, Anna Lise, my youngest sister, she and I have been the ones who've done Little Women and um Downton Abbey.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: And so we had a friendly Voxer conversation about it.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: And then also my friend Elisa, who's also been on the podcast, she's what been one of my coaching clients through the years.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: And she before she said, if you ever want to do an Ana Grand Gables and Enneagram podcast, call me up.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, I do have someone, unfortunately, who's gonna kind of do that, but I would love to hear your opinion.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: And so they both immediately said, Oh, a four.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: And then I argued back, and this I'm totally biased, and this is why, because I lead as a seven, and I identify with Anne on many levels, and so I'm like, no, no, no, she's a seven written by a four.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: I because I like that.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that was like my compromise.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, the only thing, and because I totally agree because she's able to go to the depths of despair and sit in it, but also I identify with that a little bit because I'm a creative.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: And when I'm low, I am low.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: But I have always said, but the good thing about me is I don't stay there.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: Tomorrow the sun will rise and so will I, and I can do that, I don't wallow in it.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I need to sit in the disappointment a little bit longer so the Lord can teach me.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so that was where I kind of was like, Well, if I could be the one that I knew was right and I could convince everyone, I would say she's a seven, but written by a four.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: But I like that I might have to concede to popular opinion and I'm sure we'll get a fire response.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'd say this is fun for debate anyway.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I could see the seven because she does tend to always look toward the next thing.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: And you know, she's always one thing about Anna, she's even says I don't have the quote right here.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, but she says to Merle at one point, kind of like, um, you know, I'm always making mistakes, but I never make the same mistake twice.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Like she's always growing and learning.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: So I could totally see the argument for it.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: And then that also I would say sounds like a one-two, uh, yeah, as well, because there's that idea of ones really don't like to make mistakes.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: And when they do, they sure don't want to do it again.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: They're never gonna do it again.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's what's fun about Anne is because everyone that I've talked to about this book over the years, the reason they love it is because they can relate to Anne.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: So maybe she's just one of those characters we all can see something of ourselves in and that we feel like we know her and we can understand her.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I was thinking too.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: If Ellen Montgomery was really smart, she would have written all the caricatures into one person so every girl could read it and go, me too.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, I think we have time for about two more, and so I'm gonna hit the top two, Marilla and Matthew.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: And I know there's lots of ideas, yeah, because I imagine you fell in love with them in even a deeper way as you wrote this because well, I saw that through that, and I definitely love them and I you grow to love them as you journey with Anne and her story.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a really cool gift of character development that the book takes us through, and then how your devotional does that as well.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to hear your thoughts on Marilla, and we'll talk about a couple of the ideas.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Out there.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: I have to say this.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: I haven't said that.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: I am definitely not an Enneagrams, you know, uh expert in any way, shape, or form.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: So Marilla's a hard one for me.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: I think she seems to be probably a one.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, just her sense of right and all of that, but she's always been tricky for me because some of Marilla's characteristics are very similar with my own mom.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And so I relate with the Anne Marilla relationship.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: And I still don't quite know what my mom is with the Enneagram.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I'm not like super, super expert at it.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: So I kind of swing between a few of for my mom.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: So I think I do the same with Marilla, but I could see that she might be that one.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, she just holds herself to such a high standard and holds people around her to such a high standard.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: And it takes her a while to soften up to Anne and really let Anne in.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: So it might be.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
22:51
SPEAKER_01: No, I would agree.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a great illustration of what unhealthy can look like.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, because that's the whole thing is any of these Enneagram types looks very different on someone who is healthy and living under as adopted by Christ and flourishing to an orphan mindset.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: What's really cool is that I see how Marilla really herself was an orphan and lived under that orphan mindset.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: And it took a real orphan in her life to see the love that she needed for herself.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: I think that Anne gave Marilla love and a sense of belonging and purpose, even that grew Marilla's own ability to receive it and then give it back to Anne.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know, I think that's like a uh, you know, that's a deep answer, but I kind of see that process in Marilla of like this is what it would look like.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, not perfect and not trying to stereotype, but right, you know, what it would love to live under that burden of of just some of what the one could carry when they're not living as beloved.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: So I I think we're probably right.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: I'd I'd be curious, it'll be fun to talk on the socials when just yeah, see what everyone else thinks.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: So, how about Matthew?
24:06
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I was saying Matthew, I tend to think he's more of a nine.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: I could be wrong.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: I've heard some people think he might be a two because he's always doing stuff for other people and so loving and caring and just thinking ahead always of what he can do to take care of Anne.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: And I see a little more of the nine just because he is kind of that peacemaker in the house and he's quiet, but he definitely has opinions.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: And every once in a while he just gets just puts his foot down and he is immovable once he finally just says nope, you know.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: And so when Marilla wants to send Anne back to the orphanage, you know, there's been the mistake they'd asked for a boy instead of a girl.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: And that's chapter when he just firmly puts his foot down and she finally says, Well, I can tell you want to keep her.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: And he, I think Marilla knows there is no moving him, no budging him, because he has decided he wants to keep her.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: And Marilla says, Well, what good would she do for us?
25:01
SPEAKER_00: What good would she be?
25:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't we need a boy, we need someone to help her on the farm.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: And you know, Matthew says, Well, I think it's more what good would we be for her.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And so in that moment, it's just where he is very firm and he doesn't normally make a fuss.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: He usually doesn't put his oar in, as they say, but that's one of the times where he does.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: And he does that throughout Ann's growing up years.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: It just the times when it's needed most.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: He does put his or in and kind of stick up for her and speak up for her and do those little things that make her life so special.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love Matthew, and I happen to be married to a nine.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: So I think Matthew's a nine as well.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: I also experience that stubbornness from the nine in my house when he has made up his mind.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't even try to argue or convince.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: I just like, okay, I either got to put it totally in God's hands or I just go along with it because yeah, I think about that in the puff sleeves.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: I always think that's one of the illustrations is Anne with her puff sleeve dress.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: And it'll be an opportunity to talk about the character of Miss Stacy, um, because we don't have an illustration of Miss Stacy, but she was a foundational.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: She and Mrs.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Allen, which Mrs.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Allen doesn't appear in the movies like she does in the book, but she played a very critical role in Anne's life.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: So kind of a focal point of one or two of the entries in the devotional, because you're right, it they don't focus as much on the movies, but she's a huge spiritual mentor to Anne.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: They spend time talking together.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: She says to Merla that she can tell her anything, and she tells her whole story from her childhood one evening when they're visiting.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: And and so she always goes to her for spiritual questions.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: And she even says she learns from Miss from Mrs.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Allen what it like that being a Christian is like actually a joyful, good thing.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: It's not, you know, drudgery and all that.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's and she has a big impact on her life.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think she's sometimes we don't get to hear as much about Mrs.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Allen as as we should.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: So, like I said, there's a couple, couple moments in the devotional where we focus on just what a wonderful spiritual mentor she is, and Miss Stacy as well, just always encouraging and seeing her worth and kind of pushing her to new heights.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I agree.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: I think it was really great that you chose to highlight them because it's that's kind of how it is in life.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: It's the unsung heroes.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Like Ann Shirley gets to be the heroine, the main focal point.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: But who are the women behind the scenes?
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Marilla, obviously, but there it's more of the growth of her character.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: But Mrs.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: Allen and Miss Stacy, who are these anchors in Ann's life and draw out some of the beauty and the talents, and then the spiritual element, like you said, the I think the invitation of going, oh, that's the role that we get to play with people.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Like no matter what your situation is and stage of life, like you can be a Miss Stacy and a Mrs.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Allen to some other woman and be that person.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: And yes, it might be an unseen, unsung hero role, but it's critical.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: And um, and and really it's always an honor to get to play that in the kingdom of God.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: So um definitely I love that you pointed out.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's so fun.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we could talk about Enneagram for another hour, but we'll leave it for the social conversation.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: I did think it would be really fun to do real quick because this Advent season, I'm we're doing a special Enneagram and Christmas gift episode.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: But all the guests alongside of these episodes have been we're talking about Christmas gifts, kind of as it relates to the Enneagram, because there is distinct patterns, and I love being proven right.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: So, so we're gonna find out first of all, you can answer them as quickly as you want to, but what is on your Christmas wish list this year?
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm a creature of habit and I have the same things on my list every year.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Love it, usually, usually books, comfort items like uh fuzzy robe, fuzzy slippers, new throw blanket for the couch, all those little, I guess, little luxury items that bring comfort personally to my physical body and my surroundings.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: So pretty things that are cozy and fuzzy and warm and make me happy.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: And usually like gift cards for clothes because I like to pick out my own clothes.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's really fun if I can go shop and have gift cards or you know, birthday money or Christmas money.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: And I've realized I used to ask for more practical gifts like things that I actually need.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: And I've realized that I consider those like work-related.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: So if you give me a blender for my Christmas gift, I it's nice, I need one, but it feels like just reminds me of all the work I have to do in the kitchen.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: So I've learned I want gifts that help me relax because it's hard for me to relax.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: I like gifts that make me feel like cozy and comforted and warm and like I should sit down for a little bit because I never do that.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so good.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: I love hearing that how you've grown in that too, because it's easy for us to get in a rut.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: And I like how you're going, oh, actually, this ultimately isn't the gift that I want.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: So you change it up.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: It's good.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, now what is it about Christmas shopping for others, the gift buying process that frustrates you?
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, I really like shopping for people, and I really like figuring out something that they would really like, or even just asking them for a list.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm fine with working off a list.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: I do not feel the need to try to surprise people, though I like it if I can.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: I would say the thing I don't like is actually having to go do it.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: So, like going driving around and shopping and going to 30 different stores to try to find something.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm yeah, I'm pretty efficient with my shopping.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: So if I can do it online or if I can do it all at one store, or if I have like a little loop I can drive in town where I could I can go to this store, this store, this store, and be done in half an hour or 45 minutes.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: That's my best way to do it.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't mind going out.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: I like shopping for people and I like just shopping in general, but I don't tend to make time for it in my schedule, I guess.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: So I think I'm just pretty efficient about it.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's the the blessing and the curse for a type one in particular is that you tend to put off the fun and it's a reward, and that's true, but then sometimes we put off the important things because we're like, well, if I just do this, this, and this, and then I can do this.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: The problem is then you run out of time to do what you really want to do.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: I putting off the fun is probably could be the theme of my life.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: So that is a big one for me.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: I and I've had to learn to have boundaries with stopping points because otherwise the work is never done and you never get to have a break.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: So I have very firm stopping points of boundaries in my life where I'll just keep going and never stop.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: There is a reason why I am writing a book now about fun.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: So I'll be very excited to share it with you.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: The Lord has taught me a lot, and I think there's a lot of women who resonate with this concept because responsibility, you know, it's the reality of this side of heaven, but the Lord is also going, I have celebration for you too.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, okay, and last but not least, the rapid-fire questions are what do you do enjoy about the gift buying process and buying gifts for others?
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I do enjoy finding, like I get very excited about gift giving, and probably more than gift receiving.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: I get kind of stressed out by receiving, but giving gifts is very fun for me.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: So I look forward to seeing people open their gifts and see them get what they wanted.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's very exciting.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, I really like the list making part and the organization.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: I love finding like all the deals, and you know, just if I can find the thing that I had in my mind and I'm able to find it and at a good price and make it happen, that's very exciting for me.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And I really love to see people, you know, open something that sometimes I'm more excited for them than they are because I'm like, it's the thing, remember?
32:59
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: And I get really excited.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: But I'm in for Christmas shopping and stuff, I'll sit down.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: No joke, I have my lists, I have my spreadsheet, I have my little budget, and I have like the stores I'm gonna shop at.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: And if I could have my way, I guess I'm not a crowd person, so um standing in line and all that.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: So if I could stay home and have like a Christmas movie on and do a lot of it online, I love doing that.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that sounds wonderful.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Yep, I need to be doing that here very, very soon.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: Just sit down, watch elf, or watch The Holidays, one of my favorite, or while you were sleeping, you know.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: Those are my favorites.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: And shop on the Amazon, because I'll tell you what.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love the Amazon.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: This has been so awesome.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: I've just loved getting to talk about Enneagram and this book, and it's beautiful.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: And I really think as we're talking about holiday shopping, I don't care if you think you've bought all the gifts that you need to this year.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: You need to go ahead and in your Amazon cart put in this Anna Green Gables devotional for every woman that you know.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Seriously, like any as far as you can take your budget, do it on this book because it will be a gift that keeps on giving.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: And I promise you it'll be one of the best.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: And it may not be on someone else's list.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: They just didn't know they needed it.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: But I would love to just hear from you, Rachel, the kind of if you want to summarize what you would love for women to take away from the book itself, from the message that you have here that you think Anne's story provides for us.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, for me, writing it and the heart behind it, because I put so much prayer and thought into writing each entry and just the book as a whole and what the message would be.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: And it was this sense of our longing for the sense of belonging in our lives, just that we all want to be able to feel as though we belong.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: And so I think understanding the tie between any type of feeling you've ever had, not that you've maybe been actually orphaned, but any type of, you know, maybe abandonment, feeling left out, even forgotten at times, you know, maybe overlooked or alone.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: I think everyone can relate to that at some point in their life, even you know, maybe our teen years, if nothing else.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Those moments where you just feel like you got passed over or you just didn't quite fit.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: And I think we just that's our our longing is to belong.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: And so my prayer and my hope for this book would be that when women or girls or whoever's reading it, my son's reading it with my husband right now, um, whoever's reading it, that they would really grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ for them.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: That we would learn how to operate as though we do belong to God through faith in Christ that we belong to him.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: We're his daughters, we're his sons and daughters, we're no longer orphans.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of times we kind of operate a little bit as orphans spiritually rather than saying, I have an Abba father who loves me.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: My savior died for me.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm a co-heir with Christ.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: I am seated with him in the heavenly places.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Like he has good things for my life, he has a purpose for my life, a plan for me.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: So I really hope that people reading this, it would really touch everyone's heart, knowing just that depth of God's love for them and knowing how much they belong to him.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: And just like that little glimpse we get through the, you know, it's a fictional story, but that glimpse of how much Matthew loves Anne, I think is such a beautiful picture of God's love for us.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: And that it's sacrificial.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: It's but he loves to listen to Anne.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: He never gets tired of listening to her.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: He's always thinking ahead and planning for her.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: He just has good, good plans.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: And so that would be my hope.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: And then it would just be a very warm and inviting read that people, you know, women could just sit down and feel like they're getting a hug from Jesus while they're reading.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think you've done that beautifully, and I have no doubt that that's what women will draw from.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for pouring your life into this.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: I know what it takes to write something, and it's it's no small feat.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: But you did it and it's beautiful, and I think you've accomplished what the Lord put in your heart.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: And just thank you for coming on this podcast and sharing your story and letting me get the opportunity to share the word of this good work.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: It's been an absolute joy to talk today.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Not only was getting this book in the mail unexpectedly wonderful, but so was getting to have this conversation with Rachel.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: I think this was the best way to finish out the guest interviews for this year and this podcast.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
37:38
SPEAKER_01: I sure hope you add this phenomenal devotional book to your shopping cart today.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: Get one for your sisters, your friends, and maybe even the young women in your life that need to hear how loved she is by our Heavenly Father.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: I've put all the details to get this book in the show notes.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'd be thrilled to have you join the conversation on Instagram about our favorite Green Gables characters and their personality.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, friends, for another wonderful year of podcasting.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Next week I'll be sharing my special fiction piece, The Tale of Mrs.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: Scrooge.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: I hope that it will bless you as you continue to prepare your heart for wholehearted celebration.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: And stay tuned via email on the socials for two special events that you won't want to miss.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: So, until next time, continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a wholehearted Advent season.