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What Does Reaching the Next Generation Look Like in Youth Ministry? (Beyond The Numbers Collaboration) · Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, this week we're bringing you an episode we did in collaboration with Josh Williams from Beyond the Numbers podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: And in it, him and I had a great conversation about how to reach the next generation.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: What does discipleship look like for them?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And how does vision and strategy and program all work together to accomplish the goal of discipleship?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we hope you enjoyed this episode.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: And Josh, thank you so much for having me on.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Josh, and this is Beyond the Numbers podcast.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is where we have real and raw conversations about what healthy ministry should actually look like within our churches.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Over the last couple weeks, we've kind of done a deep dive into this next generation and asking a question that I think many churches are struggling with.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Are we at risk of losing the next gen?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so with this, we've had conversations about what it looks like to actually engage with their hearts, not just from the stage, but build a relationship.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: We brought in kids' pastors, we brought in a young adult leader to talk about how we understand this next group of students and young adults that are coming up within our ministry.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And today I'm very humbled to be joined by Kristen Lascola, who is not only just a youth pastor, but she also runs a very successful podcast called Ministry Coach with her husband Jeff.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: She has been a coach to many, and she has helped over the last several years lead a lot of youth ministries into healthy directions as well as build up a lot of those leaders that tune in, listen, and engage with what she's saying.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that today she kind of pours out some of that wisdom, some of that insight to help us understand how we build that bridge to this next generation.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you do a whole lot of stuff, and I will probably butcher most of the stuff that you do or fail to mention certain things.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: So for someone that has never heard about you before, Kristen, would you mind introducing yourself to the audience?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, excited to be here.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am a youth pastor, specifically middle school in Southern California, San Diego area.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we are a multi-site church, and I'm the middle school pastor at our first ever off-site campus that we tried way back in the day.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to pioneer a lot and figure out a lot of things, going from a really large uh main campus to our first off-site.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the struggle was real.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I understand, you know, big ministry, small ministry, on campus, off campus.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've been doing that for 22 years.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a really long time.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love middle schoolers, um, and I work at North Coast Church.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, we live pretty close to the church, about 15 minutes away, married to Jeff.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you've watched the podcast, you know Jeff.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's uh, you know, my my co-host.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we have two kids and two dogs.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, just loving this season of life.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's been great.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for being here, and thank you for being a voice on uh this podcast that can kind of help pour into maybe some of the leaders that are listening to this to help them understand uh the next gen just a little bit better.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And specifically, we're looking at youth ministry in general, so students from whatever it is, fifth grade to twelfth grade.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I figure it's best just to kind of jump in from here and ask.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the biggest things that people are always looking for, like pointers, and yet they miss some of the biggest myths that they may have when it comes to understanding this next generation.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess maybe with your experience, can you kind of pour into what you think some of the biggest myths that maybe leaders, uh, leadership teams or even committees have within a church when it comes to Gen C Gen Z students today?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good question.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I think what I've been running up against the most is people that are not in that generation assume they won't connect with that generation.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they just have like, you know, we've almost made a caricature of that generation because they are so funny with all of their slang and words and like they've become a generational meme almost.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um sometimes people look at that from the outside and they're like, oh my gosh, what could I possibly have in common with somebody like that?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like skirt, yeet, skirt, you know, like they're like that's not me.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, the interesting thing is the generation, I think Gen Z, they're not so interested in are you just like us?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're not really looking for that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're looking for adults, you know, like classic that just care and want a relationship and are willing to do the work.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um people are blessed when they realize, oh, like I gave it a chance and I did connect.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't as scary as I thought, or it wasn't as like aliens from another planet as I thought, like, because at their core, they the exterior of them feels like a caricature sometimes or a meme or like kind of irritating or over the top or annoying or disrespectful or you know, whatever they might we always say about the next generation, you know, we always say that kind of stuff.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: But that is maybe taking like the broad approach.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: But when you look at them as individuals, they really just all want the same thing that every kid has always wanted.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my friends always ask me because I've been doing youth ministry so long, they're like, Oh, our junior hires so different today than they were when you first started.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, You want to know the truth?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: They are not, they are exactly the same.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's the prototype of every single kid, and they're they've never changed.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I said, What they wear changes, what they say changes, the trends change, what they're into, and how they appear from the outside.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: But they in 22 years, Josh, I swear these kids are exactly the same as they have always been.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what they want, who they are, what they struggle with, uh, the questions that they have, like it's like almost like this rinse and repeat cycle.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I meet the same exact, like I said, like prototype of kid for the last 22 years.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, you're you're the 2026 version of that kid that I knew in 2020.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because they all kind of are in the similar um stage of life, and the core needs, the core questions, the core identities just don't seem to change.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I say that as an encouragement.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So people from the outside might be like, oh my gosh, it's generation.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I can never connect with them.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, whoa.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you could because they're the same at their core and who they are.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the encouragement would be look more individual rather than broad, you know, because when you look at just the generation, it's like, ah, whoa, who are these people?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But when you look at them as the individual, it's like they're still the same old junior hires that you were when you were in junior high and that I was when I was in junior high.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it hasn't changed, you know.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it you're kind of almost speaking to maybe a fear that some of these people may have to ever get involved because they see them as this almost like untouchable group, or I'll never understand them.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I know on your podcast, sometimes you bring up different leaders that you have within your ministry.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Can you think of maybe an example of a leader that you've had that on paper might not look like they would ever interact with that generation or make a difference, but they've made a big impact?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Too many to count, but right when you asked the question, the first person that popped in my head is um this very special man named JP.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he is an ex-helicopter pilot, um, turned federal judge.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: So he's trying cases, probably as we speak.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: He is always in the courtroom.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he's, I think, in his late 40s, um, you know, has a family, three kids, uh, has had an incredible career, uh, has the scars to prove it, has some cool stories, you know, for the kids and all of that.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, he and the kids, this guy, you look at him, no offense, JP, you're awesome, but he doesn't dress like cool, like he just wears Alabama gear all the time.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: He isn't like in, like, you don't look at him and think, oh, that guy is like trying to be like hip with the youth or something.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're but they, these kids flock to him.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and he's not even a small group leader, he is my security guard and my medic.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he comes to all the events and helps us out.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the kids find him and are ecstatic.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: JP, they are always surrounding him.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's always doing I tell him, I'm like, How do you turn giving a kid an ice pack and a band-aid into ministry?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he'll just talk life with them, he'll just start asking them questions.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he's so passionate about Jesus, like in a very accessible way, not in a like, whoa, dude, chill way, but he just makes Jesus so accessible for these kids and asks them such good questions and they respond to him.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he's not the young, cool college-age surfer, skater, bro, like that you would think all the kids are gonna want that guy.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: They run to him, and um, he's actually not the only one like that.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have another guy named Andy who, again, is in his late 40s.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, his kids are grown and you know, out of the house, and he's a farmer, uh, a really simple guy.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: He grows yeah, he just grows avocados out in um Palma Valley, but he is like so present with the kids.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like they'll ask me, like, can we be an Andy small group?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like they love him.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just he has this special way of leading them that he um again like cares for them, asks good questions, is patient with where they're at in life.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he doesn't expect them to come to his level, he goes to their level.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's just really interesting that like these people who you wouldn't typically see as like, oh, you're the prototype of a youth leader.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I have some of those.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have the prototypes on my staff too, and they're fantastic.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing wrong with them.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, we need them as well.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's these like hidden gems.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I call them my rare Pokemon cards.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you're my rare Pokemon card.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think God gave you to me because he's like, she's been in youth ministry for 22 years.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let's throw her a bone.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's give her some treasure.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: She deserves it, you know.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like, these are the rare Pokemon cards that like a youth pastor would like give 10% of their salary to get like people like this on your staff.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, those are the people that are like literally doing this ministry that students are responding to because they're so locked in with getting students to be irresistibly in love with Jesus.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they do it by their lifestyle, by their questions, by their attention, and the way they introduce students to Jesus, and students can't get enough.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's pretty cool.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said there, and I think that's like a big key is the fact that it's their presence.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're there, like a lot of times.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I know even when I was younger in the ministry, if I didn't feel like there was a title there or it was a good enough title, I'd be like, well, is it really ministry?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: But like you have someone that's doing security that's making a major impact.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not about the title, but it's just about being willing to have your presence there and engage with them.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's really awesome.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like you got a good crew there again.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: God threw me.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have a woman who's in that same age range named Heidi.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she can do things literally.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing ministry 22 years, she can do things I can't do.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll be trying to make a breakthrough with a student on a certain thing, and I'm like, Heidi, I don't know.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hitting a wall with this kid, especially like at camp, you know.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: She just like takes them aside and makes a breakthrough with them within five minutes.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been like with this kid for a half an hour and can't get them to respond.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, she just has a way.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Heidi, like you are one of my rare Pokemon cards.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, nobody, nobody has a Heidi on their team.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that is thing, like again, I would give up 10% of my salary if that meant I got Heidi, Andy, JP.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we have a stacked team, but like, I know this isn't what this episode is about, but you get those kind of people.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: A, it's from the Lord.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's like, hey, Kristen, I want to keep you in the game.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Here's some people that are gonna help you along the way on this quest.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I really take care of those people and they want to stay on the team because partly they like my relationship with them is I mean, it's not like I just see Heidi on Tuesdays.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like her and I go walking and we unload her life as well.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm there for her as in the sense of pastoral care and a friend.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when she has a major life event, like I'm the first person who's texting her and reaching out, and how can I help?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you get these amazing people, and then you keep them by stewarding their that relationship really well.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, classic, you pour into them, they pour into the ministry.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not like a manipulative tactic, like, let me pretend I care about you so that you, you know, but it's like I really do.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, JP, Heidi, Andy have become some of my great friends and ministry partners.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you can't neglect that part if, you know, if you're listening, like, oh man, I wish I had a Heidi, a JP, and Andy.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, I mean, hopefully God will send you one because God just dropped them on my lap.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go look for them.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, now that I have them, how do you keep a leader of that high caliber?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can't sleep on that.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you that's constant like intentionality to keep people like that on your team.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that investment as well, like, you know, making sure that obviously, like you said, you're not viewing it from the realm of like, I'm just being pastoral because that's my role, but you're you're leading youth, but you're also helping lead and guide and build relationships with these leaders as well.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're pouring into them just as much as the students.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's awesome.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's kind of shift gears just a little bit and look at we talked about the myth.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: What about for some of these churches that maybe they're struggling with next gen and they feel like if I just slap another program on, and not that programs are bad, but like almost treating it like a band-aid, and they feel like the more programs I have, the more I'll be able to see ourselves out of it.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think we're we're quick to lean into some of those scheduled events to try to fix a problem?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think some leaders are just have a huge bent towards strategy, right?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say I'm one of those leaders.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am a problem solver by nature.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when something is not going right, I just feel like pass me the ball.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I will run this and I will fix it.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a fixer, I'm a doer, I'm a worker, and I love a problem to solve that has solution.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to see the result, you know, come to fruition.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the leader you're talking about, I can be that leader sometimes.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, give me, we need a strategy here.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Strategy, strategy, strategy.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, sometimes that is the fix, or at least that's part of it.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, program isn't, I guess I would sort of frame it this way is that program for program's sake doesn't really fix anything.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's like, okay, there could be a program or a strategy, a whiteboard session, but if it leads to something that's more vision, then I think we have like the full package there.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, we're hitting this generation, and I think a bunch of other youth pastors are too, where they are, we're in revival mode.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it is cool to be a Christian, it is not embarrassing to be a nerdy Christian anymore.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, like that is like people are proclaiming their faith, they're not hiding it.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So all the messages maybe you and I grew up with of like, no, don't be ashamed of your faith.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody is right now.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're shouting it from the rooftops.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what kids want right now is a deeper spiritual experience.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: That it's like, okay, can program solve that?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So what we did is it's like, okay, I sense that you guys want a deeper spiritual experience programmatically.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: We have four worship songs, and then we move on to the message, and then we move on to small groups, and it's timed, and it's we're gonna do too fast, too slow, worship bumper.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: When you have a lot of students, sometimes you do have to program things.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: But then the vision part, here's where that would come in is instead of embedding worship and the deeper experience into our already existing program, we've been doing these worship nights that it's all Holy Spirit, incredible worship.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you could argue technically that's a program.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like we did a worship night, but it's actually more aligned with a vision of deeper spiritual experience.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just the vehicle to accomplish that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the vehicle that we used to accomplish that was we would invite the junior high in high school, um, have literally two hours, which we started with an hour and a half, because I'm like, I don't know, guys.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: The junior hires are in there, and then we ended up having to go to two hours the next time because they demanded more.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, all right, bye, thank you for coming.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, one more song, you know.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And these kids were like on their knees, their hands were up, they were taking communion, which they would have never really done at youth group.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that it was like a couple of my kids will get on their knees during youth group, a couple raise their hands, some are really locked in.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: But youth group brings a lot of random kids too that they're they might not even be Christians and they're checking it out.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: But this was focused on like, okay, we're having this deep worship experience.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so for my students, they needed a little more, they needed some more depth, and so we used the program to accomplish that.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: But like you said, program is not always the answer, it's the vision, the culture.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we accomplishing through our program, right?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because program for program's sake doesn't quite accomplish anything.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what we have now is people really wanting to be discipled, you know, and us getting really clear on what is our like again, it sounds so clinical, but like what is our discipleship strategy?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do we have one?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a strategy doesn't accomplish anything without the vision, you know.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I would tell youth pastors, what are those big things you're trying, like either that you sense a lack in or that you're trying to infuse into your ministry.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And those are the things that should we kind of call it dripping it in, like we drip it into every single thing we do.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll just speak for myself.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want students to be so enamored with Jesus that he's completely irresistible.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in order to do that, I have to be very strategic in how I communicate who Jesus is to them.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: If it just feels like this is the be good club or a bunch of rules, or God's gonna be mad at you and you're gonna go to hell, it's like not very compelling, right?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But if I want them to be irresistibly in love with Jesus, how is that infiltrated in every message I uh teach, every small group conversation, every worship session, um, so that when they outgrow the youth group, they don't outgrow Jesus.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like it's like, oh, I I enjoyed youth group.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've outgrown it.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, moving on.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: But that Relationship with Jesus, that's the most important thing for me.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, could a program accomplish that?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily, but now you drip it into the program and you change the culture, the vision, the tempo through the way that you're casting this vision of like, you know what this is all about, right?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like Jesus.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and not like I have been really challenged in my teaching lately to get students to understand, like, he's not generic.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have been a Christian my whole life.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus loves you becomes white noise.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, that's the first song you learn.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus loves me, this I know it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Something that turns cliche and generic and all of that, unfortunately.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been trying to get them to understand God is not the God of the people only, He's the God of the person.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I need you to hear that it's not this generic love for mankind, it's this specific personal love for you.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Getting them to understand that takes time.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So those are the things you drip in vision-wise that students really need to hear that this isn't me teaching you how to be good, but teaching you about the one who is good.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I love how you put it that it's not a program for a program's sake.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a vision behind what you're doing.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and I mean, working with youth ministry, um, I mean, different sizes, different groups, but to me, there always needs to be some type of structure there uh because it's just chaotic without it.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: But then there's also those times where, like last night we had a Bible study, and um while we were go we're going through the book of Romans and this one area that we hit, and a student just randomly, based on the conversation, they were like, Well, like, what do you mean by salvation?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a student that's been there for months and months and months, but it was like in that moment we broke a little bit of the program to be like, well, this is an opportunity of discipleship.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can walk you through this and what salvation is.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And because if you're asking, maybe you don't fully understand, or maybe it's just a churchy word that and so it was an awesome thing, but I I agree with you, like programs and and schedules and all that kind of stuff, super huge.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, sometimes we slap that as the band-aid without having that vision and the goal behind it.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so important, is like you said, laying out that what is the goal of this program?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: What is the goal of even with the youth ministry, what's the goal of the youth ministry?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that makes just a huge difference there.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for for sharing that and and uh giving a little bit of insight there.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say a leader is listening to this and they're just like, I'm just I'm I'm lost.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I want to understand students, I want to go beyond like the trends and all that kind of stuff.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is the best hack per se to get to their heart?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what would what would you answer that leader in maybe a fun or spiritual way when they they want to know something like that?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, two things come to mind.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: The more fun one is students are very much here I am people.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um they I have just realized part of my job description should be one who makes a really big deal about everybody, you know, like so I think when like the best way to connect with students is you just make a huge deal about them, you know, they go to school and they're like one of hundreds, right?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they go home, they're competing for their parents' attention from their siblings, and you know, it's like very rare that a student gets undivided adult attention that is like celib celebratory in nature.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So like when I see my students, and this is genuine, I'm excited to see them, like I say their name, shout their name usually.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of my uh little buddy students is like Jaya, you know, and I see her at uh church and I run up and I give her a hug, and you know, I'm like, it's been too long since I've seen you.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Where have you been?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's been like three days, you know, and I just put like that celebrate like energy into when I see her of like Kristen saw me, Kristen was happy I'm here, and that's so reciprocated.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Then she sees me and she's like, Oh, I miss you, you know, and like then that's just such an open door.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think students have to know we like them and we're excited they're here in a way that feels genuine.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I some kids are a little more standoffish, but I always try to go out of my way to like use their name, make sure they feel acknowledged that their presence was here.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Cause yeah, like I said, in most of their life, they are a little, they can be invisible, you know.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like my own daughter is in middle school and she says, um, nobody listens in my friend group.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll start telling a story and then they just like start talking to someone else.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody pays attention.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I try to say, you know, like, like, oh, this thing happened, and like nobody cares, and nobody listens.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I know it's hard, it's a struggle.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I just feel like kids feel like that in general.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like nobody listens to them, nobody cares.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're, you know.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that energy with students really helps.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing, maybe on a deeper level, is I hate that I have to say this, but I think pastors and leaders are horrible listeners and horrible question askers.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've met a lot of ministry people in 22 years, not just in my context, you know, you meet ministry people all over the place.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody listens, nobody asks questions, nobody's interested in anybody but themselves.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's just sort of where we're at in the culture.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what students love is leaders who know how to ask really good questions and then listen.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that unlocks the heart in a way that, you know, talking at them just doesn't.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like again, people don't usually give undivided listening attention to teenagers.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're doing all the listening all day at school.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're competing in their friend group for talking.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they are competing with their sibling to be able to communicate with their parents.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: It happens in my household all the time.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like everyone's talking over each other and interrupting each other and uh, you know, but like to have an adult be like, oh my gosh, how was your day?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get deeper, you know, like I've had amazing conversations.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just when you start asking about a kid's family, you find out a lot about them and some of the pain points that, you know, start to bridge this relationship, you know, as like I sometimes I just ask really simple questions like, I've never met your mom.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: What does she do for a living?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then it's amazing when they just sort of talk, not that I'm trying to get like dirt on the family, but you see like where they're spill the tea.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's going on?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know everything.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it starts, they start to indicate what is heavy on their heart when you start to ask and then listening, and you don't have to offer advice unless you're asked, but there's a girl who comes in on Sundays, she does not like anybody.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she and she'll say that.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I don't like people.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, that's okay.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like people sometimes.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I just sit with her and I let her talk.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, so um, what did you do this weekend?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just sat in my room, I read.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, you don't have any friends over.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have any friends.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, why is that?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like people.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, did you used to have a friend?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was there someone that was important to you?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but she like betrayed me, blah, blah, blah.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're getting somewhere.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, that's hurtful.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry that happened.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've experienced that too.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not everyone is bad, but I understand your pain.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe this is just a season where God's preparing a friend for you.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever prayed that God would send you a good friend?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's faithful, he wants good things for you.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: You just did ministry, and all you did was start to ask questions and get to like, excuse me, what's important to them?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then some days we won't have that deep of a conversation.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: She'll just tell me about her favorite book.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll just sit there and give her my undivided attention of like, oh, well, who's your favorite character in the book?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what did they do?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And like, were there any twists like that you didn't see coming?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Have you read anything else by this author?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, if you were gonna write a book, what would you write it about?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you seem to like really love the written word, you know, just show an interest.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just feel like that's a really lost art, is no one's interested in anyone.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if they do ask a question, here's another thing, and I'll end with this is your body language, like sometimes people will ask me a question, and I know that they want me to be done as quickly as possible, and they're like kind of like antsy, or like they want to like say something, or they're kind of like looking around, what other conversation am I missing?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I just kind of give a very brief answer and kind of move on.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um very rare is the person who digs and listens and stays and puts in the time.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships are slow, you know.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: John Mark Comer, I just reread an uh The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was my second time reading it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he's makes such a good point.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships are slow, and leaders are usually fast, you know, myself included.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm very quick mover.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to discipline myself to slow down for the person because again, what are we modeling?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: That God is the God, not of the people, but of the person.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm modeling that to my students, then it's not just like I'm here for you guys, but I'm here for you.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm here for you as much as you can.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have a lot of students, it's hard to get to all of them every single time, but we have to model the same undivided love and attention that Jesus gives to us.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's one of those things, even when you said that, I was like, ah, because I I know years ago uh my wife pointed out, as our spouses are so very great at doing with us, um, she was like, You're not that good at multitasking as you think you are.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what do you mean?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can have a conversation with a parent and a student and a and she goes, and yet if you honestly look at it, like, what are you walking away from those conversations with?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: What did you remember?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what did you actually show those people?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and when I was, you know, not offended anymore and actually like work through what she said, it it just it it was one of those things that you know we can be so busy and so multitasking, and yet the body language, the fact that are we actually listening, or sadly, we kind of play into that that same thing that they're used to with older generations, which is you're just doing this because you're the pastor, you don't really care about what I'm going through.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I love that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Those are those are really great points.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the best part is you need to be intentional about them, but they're easy.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like, hey, you need this best sound system, you need you know the the the greatest projector, whatever it's be intentional and do it from the heart with these students.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that is the success that the leaders I mentioned earlier have.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the JP, the Andy, the Heidi, the people I mentioned, they have that on lock.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that is why kids year after year after year flock to them, love them, request them.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, uh, that encourages me a ton.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: I learn a lot from my leaders, you know, as well.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much for for being on here.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for those that maybe have never come across your podcast or any of your stuff, uh, do you want to give a little shout out to uh what where they can find your podcast, where they can find more information about you?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so like I said, my husband and I uh have a podcast that's also on YouTube, like you.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a YouTube platform, and then it's available on all podcast platforms called the Ministry Coach Podcast.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we release a new episode every Thursday and just give a lot of content um for the last six years of just do you need a game?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need leadership advice?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need camp advice, event advice?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: We cover it all.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and through that, we have a course like for people who want a little bit more.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like um, it's called the Youth Ministry Growth Accelerator.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it um is like basically everything I've learned of how to build and maintain health and growth in a ministry.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, we have people that sign up for that and we do monthly coaching calls and cohorts, and they get all these.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's basically like youth ministry 101 like videos that I recorded and they get lifetime access to.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they can go back to anytime they need a refresher.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's we we phrase it like this Jeff, my husband, when he was trying to get me to do this, because it was all his idea, and I said no.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, I'm not doing that.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have enough to do.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, no, but and this was the phrase that changed everything.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: He said, be what you wish you had.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's good.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I did.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really if I had gone back to first year youth ministry, me, second year, probably years one through 10, and said, What do you wish you had had?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we created.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, honestly, even looking back that that far back, man, there's a lot of things that I still wish I had known.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there are still things to this day that I'm I'm learning as well.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it it's a great resource for those that are out here.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you again, Kristen, for being part of this conversation and just pouring out some of that wisdom and uh guidance for whether it's a a first-time leader or just someone within the congregation that's like, how do we build something better?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really appreciate that.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And for all of you guys that tuned in, we are super happy that you guys are listening.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, you guys are growing through this.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Continue to like, follow, subscribe, all those little buttons down there to make sure that you're on top of this and following everything that we do.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys for tuning in, and I will see you guys in the comments as we work to get beyond the numbers.