Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Thoroughbred Keith: Colt Leading Detroit's Offense

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Thoroughbred Keith: Colt Leading Detroit's Offense · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: And to another episode of Tiger Territory, part of the
0:10
Speaker 1: File Territory Network, a Tiger's podcast. I'm Kier Sickley with
0:13
Speaker 1: me is always a man who wishes someone would toss
0:17
Speaker 1: sunflower seats his way after he does something really good
0:19
Speaker 1: at his job. He is Cody Sabnagg, and how.
0:21
Speaker 2: You doing doing great? I would gladly take that too.
0:25
Speaker 2: Some flower seats come on?
0:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's pretty celebratory. Uh. And that's really
0:30
Speaker 1: the only distinguishing feature of a Tiger's home run these days.
0:33
Speaker 1: And I still maintain the theory that this is like
0:36
Speaker 1: a juju thing that you don't want to mess up, because.
0:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm at this point, don't add some stupid, corny celebration.
0:43
Speaker 2: We're this deep in the season. He got the best
0:44
Speaker 2: record in the league. We don't need some stupid prop
0:47
Speaker 2: We just don't need it.
0:49
Speaker 1: No. I mean, whatever is going, it is working, and
0:53
Speaker 1: what is going right now is colt key. So we
0:56
Speaker 1: are recording this shortly after two day's game in which
1:01
Speaker 1: the Tigers clinched another series. I believe that's the twenty
1:04
Speaker 1: first of the season, U this time versus the Tampa
1:08
Speaker 1: Bay Rays four to two, victory today, five to one
1:12
Speaker 1: victory on Monday, and a little inside Baseball for everybody
1:19
Speaker 1: out there. Cody, like, we know these midweek pods, Like
1:23
Speaker 1: you know, there's only so much you can talk about
1:25
Speaker 1: with two games, So I'm like, try to get like
1:27
Speaker 1: a theme and then kind of work in what happened.
1:29
Speaker 1: And the theme we were gonna do was col Keith
1:33
Speaker 1: and I had had prepped all these stats and like
1:37
Speaker 1: got like a graphic and like all this stuff, and
1:41
Speaker 1: I was like, well, you know, no matter what, we'll
1:42
Speaker 1: be able to talk about who's been in on a
1:44
Speaker 1: hot stretch. And well, no matter what was he's even better.
1:48
Speaker 1: So all these numbers I'm about to lay for you
1:51
Speaker 1: guys arethethnically outdated, but it shows, it shows just how
1:55
Speaker 1: much of a tear he has been. And obviously he
1:59
Speaker 1: had the home today, he had the rb I single
2:02
Speaker 1: opposite field earlier in the game, two doubles in a
2:06
Speaker 1: home run as well on Monday. So here here's the
2:13
Speaker 1: funniest thing about cold Keith is that this guy was never, ever, ever,
2:17
Speaker 1: ever ever supposed to be heralded as a leadoff hitter.
2:22
Speaker 1: And let me tell you the numbers, say my man's
2:26
Speaker 1: a leadoff hitter. This is what he's done in the
2:29
Speaker 1: leadoff spot. Now, technically this includes when he's pinched hit
2:33
Speaker 1: a couple of times for the number one batting position,
2:36
Speaker 1: but those are pretty small numbers there, so more or less,
2:39
Speaker 1: this is when he is the starting leadoff hitter. He
2:43
Speaker 1: is a two to eighty six hitter. He is a
2:46
Speaker 1: three thirty nine on base and a five thirty six slug.
2:49
Speaker 1: If you want to do Matt, that's an eight seventy
2:52
Speaker 1: four ops for Cold Keith when he is your leadoff hitter. Now,
2:59
Speaker 1: just in general, he's a two sixty four, three forty four,
3:01
Speaker 1: four thirty five, seven seventy nine. Not bad. And keep
3:05
Speaker 1: in mind those numbers are a little bit up now
3:08
Speaker 1: and in July Cody eleven for twenty three. This is
3:13
Speaker 1: kind of be like, this is like his new role
3:15
Speaker 1: now he has. It's not his like number one batting
3:19
Speaker 1: position yet, but it's getting there. There's only a couple
3:22
Speaker 1: of games behind, like a fourth or whatever. So like
3:25
Speaker 1: more or less, you're a leadoff hitter for your first place.
3:28
Speaker 1: Your number one seed Tigers is Cold Keith a guy who,
3:34
Speaker 1: when the weather is cold, is rather cold. But as
3:37
Speaker 1: soon as the weather warms up, my man is off
3:40
Speaker 1: to the races. Pun So, what what do you kind
3:44
Speaker 1: of make of what we're seeing from Cold Keith right now?
3:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, proud to say I was not among those calling
3:49
Speaker 2: for Cold Keith to get sent down earlier in the year.
3:53
Speaker 2: We knew it was there with his kid like. He
3:55
Speaker 2: is a talented hitter. He was a legit prospect, and
4:00
Speaker 2: his carrying tool was his ability to hit the baseball.
4:05
Speaker 2: I have a lot of faith in his offensive ability.
4:09
Speaker 2: It'd be nice if you know, one day he's not
4:12
Speaker 2: terrible in April, check back on that next year, he's
4:16
Speaker 2: pretty good. When it's not April. He's hitting I think
4:19
Speaker 2: three oh six since May one. I mean, this is
4:22
Speaker 2: a prolonged stretch, and it's been a little bit quiet
4:25
Speaker 2: for a while, in part because there hasn't really been
4:28
Speaker 2: a lot of power. Now we're starting to see a
4:31
Speaker 2: little power. We're starting to see Cold Keith gets the
4:33
Speaker 2: ball to the poll side in the air. At least
4:36
Speaker 2: the last two nights he's done that, and that's continued.
4:39
Speaker 2: That's that was a thing with him coming up through
4:41
Speaker 2: the minors last season this year. Last year he had
4:44
Speaker 2: a fourteen percent clip of pulling the ball in the air.
4:48
Speaker 2: It's not very good this year. It's only fourteen point nine,
4:51
Speaker 2: so it hasn't been a lot better. But he's starting
4:54
Speaker 2: to get there. Oddly enough. It's like, hey man, how
4:58
Speaker 2: are you doing this? Stop trying to do it. That's
5:01
Speaker 2: pretty much been his answer, in addition to the whole
5:04
Speaker 2: fun Beard storyline from Cheap Razors in Cleveland. He's swinging easy,
5:11
Speaker 2: he say, he's swinging seventy seventy five percent. And oddly enough,
5:14
Speaker 2: that's somehow allowing him to catch the ball more out front,
5:18
Speaker 2: maybe than just tightening up too much, slowing down his swing.
5:21
Speaker 2: Maybe that's just all mental. Who knows, it's the mysteries
5:24
Speaker 2: of baseball. But Cold Keith is getting to the ball,
5:27
Speaker 2: the ball to the pull side a little bit. He's
5:29
Speaker 2: starting to tap into some power, which he's a big boy.
5:32
Speaker 2: You'd like to see him hit for some power. And
5:34
Speaker 2: then you look up he's gotten eight hundred ops. It's like,
5:36
Speaker 2: oh yeah, he's not yet twenty four years old. Cold
5:41
Speaker 2: Keith is a really good hitter. Proud to say I
5:43
Speaker 2: was not also not among those trying to trade him
5:46
Speaker 2: for much of anything, because you got this guy for
5:49
Speaker 2: a long time on a really team friendly contract. We'll
5:53
Speaker 2: see what the upside is. He's got to be able
5:55
Speaker 2: to pull the ball in the air more consistently to
5:57
Speaker 2: be that real power type that maybe you want him
6:01
Speaker 2: to be. But he has a good approach, he has
6:03
Speaker 2: great hand eye coordination, he's smart, he's adjustable. Now it's July.
6:08
Speaker 2: Now we're kind of seeing all that come to fruition
6:10
Speaker 2: here at the apex of a pretty big hot streak.
6:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you mentioned since May first. I just did
6:16
Speaker 1: it from from May third, and that's coming into today's
6:20
Speaker 1: game three ten, three sixty five, nineteen eight, you know,
6:25
Speaker 1: eight eighty eight ops five. I mean it's it's this
6:30
Speaker 1: is not a small sample size that we're seeing. This
6:32
Speaker 1: is this is a a good chunk of the season obviously,
6:37
Speaker 1: And you mentioned the adjustability and the simplicity and like
6:44
Speaker 1: you know, some of the natural strength. So we actually
6:46
Speaker 1: saw that over these past couple of days that the
6:49
Speaker 1: most impressive thing that I've noticed from Colt in this
6:53
Speaker 1: stretch is his ability to do it all and use
6:57
Speaker 1: the whole field, use the whole play. So like example,
7:01
Speaker 1: he pokes it the other way, like I mentioned, not
7:05
Speaker 1: not gonna be bragging about that one on the exit velocity.
7:08
Speaker 1: But yeah, Zach McKinstry on second, he knows all he's
7:11
Speaker 1: got to do is get that to the outfield and
7:13
Speaker 1: a run scoring in that situation to tie the game. Obviously,
7:16
Speaker 1: that's a crucial point. And then I'll go back, Yeah,
7:20
Speaker 1: I hit the change up again today and claubt that,
7:22
Speaker 1: but I want to go back to Monday when that
7:25
Speaker 1: home run was up in in ninety five miles an
7:30
Speaker 1: hour fastball. And so I mentioned this with with Vierling
7:35
Speaker 1: sometimes like his hands are really quick where he can
7:37
Speaker 1: get up on those elevated inside fastballs and do damage.
7:42
Speaker 1: And Cold Keith on the other side. That's that's impressive
7:45
Speaker 1: to me because how many times have we seen Riley
7:48
Speaker 1: Green swing under that ball? How many times have we
7:51
Speaker 1: seen Wenzel Perez swing underneath that ball? And Cold Keith
7:54
Speaker 1: was able to square. It's not like he has his
7:56
Speaker 1: hands up that high either, but he's short, he's compact.
7:59
Speaker 1: That's like natural strength and quick hands if there, if
8:02
Speaker 1: they're if anything was an example of that. So that's
8:05
Speaker 1: the most impressive thing to me with Cole is that
8:07
Speaker 1: he's able to do damage on different types of pitches
8:11
Speaker 1: and different locations and do exactly what the situation calls for.
8:15
Speaker 1: And as you said, twenty three turns twenty four in August,
8:19
Speaker 1: I believe so like so like, this is advanced level stuff.
8:25
Speaker 1: It's not just impressive. It's advanced level stuff that we're
8:28
Speaker 1: seeing from a guy and also an example of sometimes
8:30
Speaker 1: like man, so you gotta give these kids a little
8:34
Speaker 1: bit of time, just a little bit of time, a
8:35
Speaker 1: little bit of time, and it will pay off and
8:38
Speaker 1: be in really early payoffs. He's already a one point
8:42
Speaker 1: zero war player that's gonna go up slightly after today's game.
8:45
Speaker 1: And not to mention all the stuff that they're able
8:47
Speaker 1: to do with him defensively in terms of just like
8:50
Speaker 1: different places they can put him. I know he's grades
8:53
Speaker 1: out as a blow average defender, but the fact that
8:56
Speaker 1: you can put him there is something of itself. And
8:58
Speaker 1: one more thing Cody about Colt Keith that I found fascinating.
9:03
Speaker 1: He's had this reputation for being like kind of the
9:06
Speaker 1: bigger guy, but not necessarily the most fleet of foot,
9:09
Speaker 1: not necessarily the most agile. Whatever, what if I told
9:15
Speaker 1: you that his base running run value on Baseball Savant
9:18
Speaker 1: is in the ninety one percentile.
9:21
Speaker 2: Wow, I'm surprised by that. I wouldn't have thought he
9:24
Speaker 2: was a bad base runner, but I would have guessed average.
9:28
Speaker 2: That surprises me.
9:29
Speaker 1: Six file speed ninety one percentile base running run value.
9:34
Speaker 1: So you talked about instincts and all that stuff, I
9:36
Speaker 1: mean that, Yeah, that's that's a great example of having
9:39
Speaker 1: that in space.
9:40
Speaker 2: So yeah, Well, a couple more little numbers for you.
9:44
Speaker 2: Kerean strikeout rate, walk rate, chase rate generally pretty good
9:48
Speaker 2: predictive stats for hitters, something that can be important to
9:52
Speaker 2: look at for guys early in their career. His strikeout
9:55
Speaker 2: rate has stayed the same from last year, nineteen point
9:58
Speaker 2: eight percent, not bad at all. His walk rate has
10:01
Speaker 2: taken a big jump from six point five percent, which
10:04
Speaker 2: is a little bit below average, to eleven percent, which
10:07
Speaker 2: is that's a great walk rate. His overall swing rate
10:10
Speaker 2: has declined, so he's not being jumpy. His chase rate
10:15
Speaker 2: is down to twenty two point nine percent. This is
10:17
Speaker 2: a guy who has an ability to control the zone.
10:20
Speaker 2: We've seen him get a little bit jumpy, I think
10:22
Speaker 2: at some of the low points in his MLB career,
10:25
Speaker 2: but overall that's a profile of a guy who's gonna
10:28
Speaker 2: be able to take walks, who's not gonna chase bad pitches,
10:31
Speaker 2: who can put the ball in play? And again, if
10:34
Speaker 2: he continues to tap into just a little bit more
10:36
Speaker 2: of this power, that's the makeup of a pretty good
10:40
Speaker 2: hitter from the left side.
10:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if memory serves, I don't think he had
10:44
Speaker 1: a hit in the Wildcard Series against Houston, but he
10:48
Speaker 1: had four walks. So that's so that's another example of
10:51
Speaker 1: of what you're talking about there, and we I think
10:57
Speaker 1: we've done cold Keith a good amount of justice here
10:59
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11:01
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12:06
Speaker 1: Coming back here, I you know, I was thinking about
12:09
Speaker 1: this earlier today, Cody. We've had a wide range of
12:13
Speaker 1: let's just say this calendar year Jack Flaherity discussions, because
12:19
Speaker 1: we've seen a wide range of Jack Flaherity outcomes, and so,
12:26
Speaker 1: like you said, I wish I could remember it was
12:28
Speaker 1: probably in April, Like you know, what if Jack Flaherity
12:32
Speaker 1: is your four, and it's like that's a pretty good four.
12:36
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of what we saw today.
12:39
Speaker 1: And again I'm not even trying to like knock him
12:42
Speaker 1: when he had a good day to day. But like
12:43
Speaker 1: we spent the past, we've spent our last episode talking
12:46
Speaker 1: about how awesome Eies was and like what resourcing can do.
12:50
Speaker 1: And you know, this guy named Schooble, I don't know
12:52
Speaker 1: if you ever heard of him, but like Flarity today,
12:56
Speaker 1: he was the fastball below was not a problem, even
12:59
Speaker 1: though one of them uh went out the yard, but
13:02
Speaker 1: he worked the knuckle change or excuse me, knuckle curve
13:07
Speaker 1: very effectively, mixed in the slider. That's essentially what he threw.
13:10
Speaker 1: Obviously you throwing, you know, throwing some other but the fastball,
13:14
Speaker 1: knuckle and slider combination was working for him to day.
13:17
Speaker 1: He got the swing and miss seven hits two runs early,
13:20
Speaker 1: so he buckled down eight k's and and and one
13:24
Speaker 1: walk in really you know, six and a third, but
13:28
Speaker 1: kind of got robbed, if we're being honest, A chance
13:30
Speaker 1: to go a complete seven, you know, by by by
13:34
Speaker 1: the Javier play throw. I should say so, Jack Flaerity
13:40
Speaker 1: kind of a reminder of what could be. I mean,
13:42
Speaker 1: this is obviously not his peak, but what could be
13:46
Speaker 1: when when he's trending in the right direction.
13:48
Speaker 2: Today, Yeah, his last three starts have been all solid results.
13:53
Speaker 2: I don't know that any of it was spectacular. I
13:55
Speaker 2: don't know that any of it was the top level
13:58
Speaker 2: Jack Flaherty stuff we've at times in the past. But
14:02
Speaker 2: encouraged by the strikeouts nine strikeouts his last outing eight
14:06
Speaker 2: strikeouts here tonight, he really had the knuckle curve going,
14:09
Speaker 2: which is always good to see. He had a thirty
14:11
Speaker 2: four called strike fifth percentage. He wasn't really getting lucky,
14:15
Speaker 2: even the home run balls a little bit over the plate,
14:17
Speaker 2: but hey, ninety five goheader got around and beat him.
14:20
Speaker 2: It wasn't It wasn't like when he left one ninety
14:22
Speaker 2: to lie de la Cruz and you're like, bro, what
14:24
Speaker 2: are you doing. It was like, you know, another guy,
14:27
Speaker 2: maybe you get that by him. Seems like it's been
14:30
Speaker 2: some small steps forward for Jack now. I do think
14:33
Speaker 2: we kind of declared him back like earlier this season,
14:36
Speaker 2: and then he went on to completely fall apart. So
14:38
Speaker 2: I'm not going to declare him back. I'm gonna say
14:41
Speaker 2: if he keeps pitching like this, Yeah, he might be
14:44
Speaker 2: your fourth best and that might be a pretty good
14:47
Speaker 2: number four, And maybe that's that's okay, especially when you
14:51
Speaker 2: know there's more in a tank, especially when you want
14:54
Speaker 2: to have someone on this staff other than Trek Scoogle
14:56
Speaker 2: who can really miss bats. You still have that in
14:59
Speaker 2: Jack Flair, even when his fastball is not good. The slider,
15:02
Speaker 2: the knuckle curf, he gets a lot of whiffs that
15:05
Speaker 2: can be valuable. I don't know. I just think if
15:09
Speaker 2: Jack can sustain this level of performance, everyone's going to
15:13
Speaker 2: be really happy. It's fluctuated a lot this year, so
15:16
Speaker 2: I don't want to make any proclamations. Historically, or at
15:20
Speaker 2: least last season, the second half got a little tough
15:23
Speaker 2: for him. The stuff declined is the year one along,
15:25
Speaker 2: so he's got I think, a lot left to prove,
15:28
Speaker 2: But especially after a couple of really rough outings, it's
15:31
Speaker 2: good to see him back stabilized, right.
15:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like one of the there's a lot
15:39
Speaker 1: of times I wish I could go underneath the hood
15:41
Speaker 1: on how the Tigers operate because I think it's fascinating
15:44
Speaker 1: and the results, you know, speak for themselves. But like
15:47
Speaker 1: the flairty conversations, and then what's actually kind of happening
15:52
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. I would just love to know, because
15:55
Speaker 1: we know the natural athleticism is there, We know that
15:59
Speaker 1: pure stuff U can be there, and then it's always
16:04
Speaker 1: like thrown around like mechanics or this, and then you
16:07
Speaker 1: you know, and then he's working on you know, some
16:10
Speaker 1: more basic level things like almost like the finer points
16:14
Speaker 1: of pitching to a thirty year old, which I'm not overrating.
16:16
Speaker 1: Everybody is capable of getting better, like almost at any
16:19
Speaker 1: time in their career, but like the lab work on
16:25
Speaker 1: Jack Flaherty to get to this point which you're talking about,
16:29
Speaker 1: you know, being you know, several starts of solid play
16:34
Speaker 1: and then the second half element, which we didn't get
16:36
Speaker 1: to witness, you know, up close and personal last season,
16:40
Speaker 1: and then what we saw from Afar and then the
16:42
Speaker 1: Tigers were obviously very comfortable with what they saw you know,
16:47
Speaker 1: in the second half and that they could be corrected
16:49
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. Like how that plays out, I'm
16:53
Speaker 1: I am very very fascinated by because I think I
16:56
Speaker 1: think that's probably gonna be one of those kind of
17:02
Speaker 1: ever evolving concepts, you know, like I don't think. I
17:06
Speaker 1: don't think Jack's ever gonna be like left alone to
17:09
Speaker 1: do his thing, you know what I mean. And that's okay,
17:12
Speaker 1: that's okay, Like like like he's a he's a guy
17:15
Speaker 1: that there's a lot, there's there's a pretty good mold
17:17
Speaker 1: there to shape in terms of being an effective pitcher
17:20
Speaker 1: and you know, a lot to prove, like not to
17:23
Speaker 1: get way too ahead of ourselves, like he's gonna make
17:26
Speaker 1: some money if he does nothing this offseason, but like
17:29
Speaker 1: I'm sure in the back of his head, yeah, he
17:31
Speaker 1: still has a lot to prove in general to the
17:33
Speaker 1: baseball world because he has not gotten the contractual offers
17:38
Speaker 1: that he feels like he's out. So he's still gonna
17:40
Speaker 1: be a motivated guy. He's not a made man by
17:43
Speaker 1: by any stretch of the imagination.
17:44
Speaker 2: And yeah, he's probably gonna opt into this deal unless
17:48
Speaker 2: he just really is electric post All Star Break.
17:52
Speaker 1: But but it's still something. But it's still something that
17:55
Speaker 1: could happen. It's still a it's still in the in
17:58
Speaker 1: the list of outcomes for Flarity in this team long term.
18:02
Speaker 1: So uh so that's you know, just something like in
18:05
Speaker 1: the back of head, there's still there's still a lot
18:07
Speaker 1: for Jack to quote unquote prove or whatever and that,
18:10
Speaker 1: and that's it's not often you get a guy that's
18:12
Speaker 1: kind of been in this situation. You know, he just
18:14
Speaker 1: got a ring and then you know, does the comeback
18:18
Speaker 1: and it's all feel good, but there's still like all
18:20
Speaker 1: that they're still like rope to grab for him. So
18:24
Speaker 1: I think, I think with I think that process is
18:29
Speaker 1: going to be very fascinating to see. I wish I
18:31
Speaker 1: knew it all. I wish I wish I was pretty
18:33
Speaker 1: that information. Unfortunately I am not.
18:38
Speaker 2: Well, you want to move on to a picture who
18:40
Speaker 2: mystifies me almost as much as Jack Flaherty, because that's
18:43
Speaker 2: Kater Montero, who was results wise pretty stellar against the
18:48
Speaker 2: race six innings, one earned run for punch outs. You
18:52
Speaker 2: go back, you go back, Karan into May. His last
18:56
Speaker 2: six starts, he has a two three zero e r A.
19:00
Speaker 2: But even more than our friend Casey Mais, he's like
19:03
Speaker 2: vastly outperforming all the metrics, and that time he has
19:06
Speaker 2: a two to three ERA. His FIP is four to
19:10
Speaker 2: nine four. So that's feeling independent pitching. It's basically saying,
19:13
Speaker 2: take as an oversimplification, but take luck out of the
19:16
Speaker 2: equation in his era wouldn't be almost five like that
19:20
Speaker 2: is vastly different. Even even Monday against the Rays, the
19:23
Speaker 2: results were great, but he had only two swings and
19:27
Speaker 2: misses the whole game. First he had eighteen Yeah, yes,
19:31
Speaker 2: he got I think eighteen called strikes, which in a
19:33
Speaker 2: way was good. He was living in the zone. But
19:37
Speaker 2: but he like had a low pitch count, which would
19:40
Speaker 2: indicate the Rays were in swing mode, except they took
19:42
Speaker 2: eighteen called strikes. When they did swing, they had an
19:46
Speaker 2: average x velocity of almost ninety five miles an hour.
19:49
Speaker 2: They were belting some line drive to the outfield that
19:52
Speaker 2: just got caught. They were right at guys, and I
19:55
Speaker 2: was like, I have no idea what to make out
19:57
Speaker 2: of that out And because there's certain numbers, you'd like,
19:59
Speaker 2: there's certain and things are like he should have gotten
20:01
Speaker 2: absolutely pummeled. And you can kind of see that going
20:05
Speaker 2: back through this six start stretch in which he's been
20:07
Speaker 2: really good, and yet he got optioned in the middle
20:11
Speaker 2: of it and left down. Dietrich Ins was called up
20:14
Speaker 2: to start a game over him, in part because the
20:16
Speaker 2: Tigers had some things they wanted him to work on.
20:19
Speaker 2: So a little bit mystifying, and yet you look at
20:22
Speaker 2: the real results and it's like, why does this guy
20:25
Speaker 2: keep going up and down? He probably should be your
20:28
Speaker 2: fifth starter for the time being and leave that alone
20:31
Speaker 2: unless you're just trying to get an extra relief pitcher,
20:35
Speaker 2: you know, when you have off days and such. So
20:38
Speaker 2: cater Montero a little bit of a puzzle. I actually
20:41
Speaker 2: feel like good about him, but kind of mystifying. I
20:45
Speaker 2: don't know, what do you think.
20:47
Speaker 1: The way I look at it is all right, what
20:51
Speaker 1: am I missing? Because like I feel better about him
20:55
Speaker 1: than the Tigers obviously do based on their roster management.
21:00
Speaker 1: And remember I said post job, I was like, all right,
21:03
Speaker 1: we'll get your own apartment in Detroit, you know what
21:06
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, you know, talking about Montero because it's
21:08
Speaker 1: like it just seemed just seemed obvious. And then you
21:12
Speaker 1: know they're kind of using him as that extra roster
21:14
Speaker 1: spot in a way, bat reliever or whatever the situation
21:19
Speaker 1: calls for. And you know which, by the way, happy
21:21
Speaker 1: late birthday, Montero just turned twenty five. Still a pup
21:26
Speaker 1: and he is You're by far, they say, by far.
21:31
Speaker 1: It's obviously these numbers are close this time the season.
21:33
Speaker 1: But he's your by far your fourth best starting pitcher.
21:36
Speaker 1: Just in terms of war he's he's a point a
21:38
Speaker 1: war guy. I mean, Flairty, we just gave him Flowers
21:41
Speaker 1: came into today. The definition of replacement level obviously you
21:46
Speaker 1: know schoobl Mize and Olsen ahead of them. So it
21:49
Speaker 1: just it seems like it it ought to be him,
21:53
Speaker 1: but there's obviously something that we're missing it. So again,
21:55
Speaker 1: the whole like under the hood thing would love to
21:58
Speaker 1: to get a good a good you're on that I
22:00
Speaker 1: mean is he's got a one to oh six era
22:05
Speaker 1: plus you know the I think Jack Flerty' is like
22:08
Speaker 1: what five and nine in Montero's four and one. So
22:10
Speaker 1: there's your win loss record for those that that care
22:13
Speaker 1: about that. And and it seems.
22:16
Speaker 2: Like Kearing, part of his lineup dependent left handed batters
22:20
Speaker 2: have a nine to ninety ops and that's part of
22:22
Speaker 2: what he was in Toledo to work on was his
22:24
Speaker 2: arsenal against lefties. So that's that's a big part of
22:27
Speaker 2: it right there. Even though it hasn't burned him in
22:30
Speaker 2: terms of results in the past six starts, there are
22:33
Speaker 2: certain teams I think the Tigers do not want him
22:35
Speaker 2: seeing sure.
22:36
Speaker 1: And also I would say maybe the number one, top
22:42
Speaker 1: three not three guy on the forty man where it's like,
22:45
Speaker 1: I hope you guys are having great communication with him
22:49
Speaker 1: in regards to how like you're using him or not
22:53
Speaker 1: using him or bringing him up bringing him down. You know,
22:55
Speaker 1: I would almost put like j Hen in that in
22:58
Speaker 1: that category as well, just like guys that you like
23:00
Speaker 1: that you deem valuable, but you're kind of but you're
23:04
Speaker 1: moving back and forth a little bit, and you got
23:06
Speaker 1: to make sure that you know everything upstairs is okay,
23:08
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because like it's sometimes it
23:14
Speaker 1: can seem like hollow words when it's like we value
23:17
Speaker 1: you're going to be a part of this team. Go
23:21
Speaker 1: sixty minutes down the road real quick for a week
23:24
Speaker 1: or two, and then we'll hit you up again.
23:27
Speaker 2: So that's a big picture. The way that Tigers have
23:30
Speaker 2: managed this pitching staff is pretty smart, even though it
23:33
Speaker 2: seems like guys like Montero get yanked around and certain
23:36
Speaker 2: relievers are kind of churned like it's it's basically expanding
23:40
Speaker 2: your roster. It's utilizing every guy at your disposal, being
23:45
Speaker 2: able to be flexible based on what team you're playing,
23:48
Speaker 2: based on how the schedule lays out, Like, I think
23:50
Speaker 2: it's smart, but you're right, there can be a human
23:53
Speaker 2: told to that. And then in a way, I think
23:55
Speaker 2: Caater Montero deserves a lot of credits. It's probably not easy, yes,
23:58
Speaker 2: going from to Toledo to to Toledo, pitching well in Detroit. Hey,
24:02
Speaker 2: you're still going back to Toledo. That doesn't sound very
24:05
Speaker 2: fun to me. I would not really like to experience that,
24:08
Speaker 2: other than like the whole being in the big league's part,
24:10
Speaker 2: that'd be cool. That's not easy on a player, and
24:15
Speaker 2: he's pretty much been ready at every turn and answered
24:18
Speaker 2: the call. And there's something to say about that as well.
24:22
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25:32
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here. You know, you know last
25:34
Speaker 1: week was such such a dominating conversation with you know,
25:37
Speaker 1: the the three all star starters, and then you know,
25:40
Speaker 1: obviously school bol gets named to the Midsummer Classic as well.
25:44
Speaker 1: Uh it to the layman, you might think this is
25:48
Speaker 1: kind of a top heavy team because you only had
25:50
Speaker 1: one all star other than other than the starters. And
25:53
Speaker 1: then you know, we see we've seen over the past
25:56
Speaker 1: couple of days just like I say, we we as
25:59
Speaker 1: it a Baseball Nation. Tiger's fans wi't need a reminder
26:02
Speaker 1: of this of just like really how deep this team
26:06
Speaker 1: is and can be on any given night. We you know,
26:08
Speaker 1: the McKinstry play on Sunday obviously, and then you know
26:11
Speaker 1: him the home run on Monday. Torque is the home
26:14
Speaker 1: run today, Dinglers, you know, swinging a nice bat right
26:17
Speaker 1: now as well. I Mean, sometimes I just stop to think, like, man,
26:21
Speaker 1: this is It's actually unbelievable how deep this Tiger's roster is.
26:27
Speaker 1: Zach McKinstry having lead segments on MLB Network talking about
26:32
Speaker 1: like his versatility and like there's like nineteen games that
26:35
Speaker 1: he's played a different position than the one he started
26:37
Speaker 1: in this year, which is like third or fourth in
26:39
Speaker 1: the American League something like that, and then the Torque piece.
26:43
Speaker 1: You know, I give Tigers fans a lot of credit
26:46
Speaker 1: they want, I mean, they want Torque to get all
26:50
Speaker 1: the credit, and I appreciate that. Sometimes I gotta think, Okay,
26:54
Speaker 1: well there's still this measurement, there's still this Sometimes I
26:59
Speaker 1: just got to say, well, the dude's hitting eight hundred
27:02
Speaker 1: ops right now. He drew a couple of walks, like
27:07
Speaker 1: you know, smart at bats, which by the way we
27:09
Speaker 1: should have mentioned that three two change up that Colt
27:11
Speaker 1: had earlier. But it's like cold Keith, you know, Dylan Dangler,
27:14
Speaker 1: Zach McKinstry, especially Torkelsen, like all these like other guys
27:18
Speaker 1: making plays that have kind of carried the team a
27:22
Speaker 1: little bit during a stretch that no one would confuse
27:25
Speaker 1: him for playing their best baseball. This is a whole
27:27
Speaker 1: baseball team. I just felt like this was another example
27:29
Speaker 1: of that, you know, to it, you know, FS one
27:32
Speaker 1: on Monday National broadcast another example of that.
27:35
Speaker 2: You know, Kieren, this could be a whole episode in itself.
27:39
Speaker 2: But like what timeline are we living in? You know,
27:43
Speaker 2: like this is this is a good team, and we're
27:45
Speaker 2: talking about everything in the lens of the postseason. Like
27:50
Speaker 2: I've expressed like concerns about the bullpen. That's not because
27:54
Speaker 2: I think the team's bad or the team's on shaky ground.
27:56
Speaker 2: It's because we're like, can the Tigers win the World Series?
28:00
Speaker 2: And it's also like there was one day around August
28:04
Speaker 2: eleventh last year that a switch just flipped. They went
28:08
Speaker 2: from being a subpar team to the best team in baseball.
28:13
Speaker 2: It was so sudden, and they had the foundation you
28:18
Speaker 2: had Schooble, you had some talented hitters. But as I
28:22
Speaker 2: stepped back and I just like, what is the secret
28:25
Speaker 2: or beyond like being really good at development, what did
28:29
Speaker 2: the front office do to create this so quickly? And
28:33
Speaker 2: I almost struggle to come up with like a simple
28:37
Speaker 2: or even straightforward answer to that question. I think it
28:41
Speaker 2: probably didn't come as suddenly, like the results came suddenly
28:45
Speaker 2: due to things that were in the works under the
28:47
Speaker 2: surface percolating. That took some time. Some of that's just
28:50
Speaker 2: having young hitters. But then you also look up and
28:52
Speaker 2: you're like, but dude, no one saw Hobby Baias being
28:57
Speaker 2: in the All Star Game, and no one saw Zach
28:59
Speaker 2: McKinnon stream maybe being in the All Star Game, And
29:02
Speaker 2: very few people saw Tork having a resurgence season, And
29:06
Speaker 2: ain't no one expected Chase Lee and Brent Herder and
29:09
Speaker 2: all these pictures to give you quality innings. Like when
29:16
Speaker 2: you really step back, you know, if there's ever a
29:20
Speaker 2: book written about this team, is there is there an explanation?
29:23
Speaker 2: Is there gonna be Scott Harris, like here is the
29:26
Speaker 2: Billy Bean? You know crap I was doing all along?
29:30
Speaker 2: Or is it?
29:31
Speaker 1: Like?
29:31
Speaker 2: No, man, this was amazing we didn't fully expect it either.
29:35
Speaker 2: I don't actually know the full answer to that question.
29:39
Speaker 1: I did like that could be just wild. There's actually
29:44
Speaker 1: kind of one kind of a title man, like they
29:46
Speaker 1: just can't They just kind of come at you, like
29:48
Speaker 1: over and over and over again, with all these different
29:51
Speaker 1: matchups and all these guys, you know, making plays like
29:54
Speaker 1: it's like I put it out on X a couple
29:57
Speaker 1: of times, like it almost feels like inevitable. Sorry, yeah,
30:00
Speaker 1: we'll run lead like like I hope you'll enjoy it
30:04
Speaker 1: a lot less because you're just gonna have to take
30:07
Speaker 1: this l in some way, you know. And you know,
30:10
Speaker 1: I haven't used this phrase in a while by using
30:12
Speaker 1: it at the beginning of Scott Harris's tenure. But it
30:14
Speaker 1: just does feel like it's a team full of hkg's
30:17
Speaker 1: Harris kind of guys, like like Hobby Maya's buying into
30:21
Speaker 1: the versatility element, you know, like Torgelsen buying into the
30:27
Speaker 1: the not the swing change, but the you know, the
30:30
Speaker 1: batting element changes that they wanted him to do. Colt
30:33
Speaker 1: Keith buying into the defensive versatilities at McKinstry buying into
30:37
Speaker 1: literally every war is coming in and being you know,
30:40
Speaker 1: like exactly the kind of player that Scott Harris like
30:45
Speaker 1: asked him to be, including doing things at a higher
30:47
Speaker 1: level than he was known for.
30:49
Speaker 2: So it's a funny thing about that here and the
30:51
Speaker 2: whole dominate to strike something offensively, They're not that good.
30:56
Speaker 2: They're in seventeenth and walker rate like below league average
30:59
Speaker 2: and walk rate and above league averaged nine highest strikeout right,
31:02
Speaker 2: they don't really dominate the strike zone to a crazy degree.
31:06
Speaker 1: You know, you have principles until you just have the talent.
31:09
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, I guess that that's that's the
31:11
Speaker 1: exception there, and and I and I wanted to I
31:14
Speaker 1: wanted to like kind of bring this all full circle
31:18
Speaker 1: by going into like a national talking point that's been
31:23
Speaker 1: uh talk, that's been the talk of you know, baseball,
31:26
Speaker 1: with trade deadline coming up. And and I did also
31:29
Speaker 1: want to say to all our viewers and listeners that
31:32
Speaker 1: there's this communication app called chat BCC and you can
31:37
Speaker 1: go to chat BCC foul Territory dot chat and it's
31:42
Speaker 1: the best way to interact with your foul your favorite
31:46
Speaker 1: foul territory host. You know, we're hanging out with fans,
31:48
Speaker 1: answering questions hosting trivia, running giveaways like two free MLB
31:52
Speaker 1: tickets up to a four hundred dollars value and a
31:55
Speaker 1: free MLB jersey of your choice. So if you got
31:57
Speaker 1: a hot take or a burning question, drop it in.
31:59
Speaker 1: The chat might even be featured on foul Territory shows.
32:02
Speaker 1: So it's free to join foul Territory dot chat. Go
32:06
Speaker 1: and hang there, and one of the I would say
32:12
Speaker 1: big talking points nationally, Cody would be this this Cabrian
32:17
Speaker 1: Hayes cloud that's kind of hanging over everything, and it's
32:23
Speaker 1: been reported we talked about in the offseason. I was
32:26
Speaker 1: a fan, but that was also under the pretenses I
32:29
Speaker 1: didn't think that McKinstry is going to be nearly three
32:32
Speaker 1: war player at h at the All Star break. I
32:35
Speaker 1: didn't think that Hobby was going to be an All
32:39
Speaker 1: Star starter, and I didn't know what Torque role was
32:42
Speaker 1: going to be. All these things. A lot of has
32:44
Speaker 1: changed since we talked about Cabrian Hayes. It seems, you know,
32:50
Speaker 1: I'm a big guy about things leak for a reason,
32:54
Speaker 1: and I don't know about making any judgments or assumptions.
33:02
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell you that a couple of times
33:04
Speaker 1: Cabrian Hayes's name has been floated out there to National reporters,
33:08
Speaker 1: and it's always teams. The three teams that are mentioned
33:12
Speaker 1: are the Tigers, the Cubs, and the Yankees. That's best
33:18
Speaker 1: team in baseball, one of the best teams in baseball,
33:22
Speaker 1: and up until very recently, the second best team in
33:25
Speaker 1: the American League slash, you know, leader of the American
33:29
Speaker 1: League East. Seems like Pittsburgh not really going anywhere. Want
33:36
Speaker 1: to get my guy over to a better situation with
33:41
Speaker 1: a better franchise. It's not a hey, you know, the
33:44
Speaker 1: Nationals are thinking about getting Cabrian Hayes, you know what
33:47
Speaker 1: I mean. So I went and looked at the numbers.
33:52
Speaker 1: The good is he's a one point five defensive war
33:55
Speaker 1: player and as of now, that's almost about it. He
34:01
Speaker 1: is a negative offensive war player. He does not he's
34:05
Speaker 1: a right handed bat, does not hit lefties right now
34:10
Speaker 1: really at all, nor for any power. He's under contract
34:12
Speaker 1: for at least four more years now. It is a
34:14
Speaker 1: low number, but at least four more years. And the
34:18
Speaker 1: only thing I guess there is something else you could say.
34:20
Speaker 1: He's kind of overachieved against breaking it off speed pitches
34:23
Speaker 1: because of power wise, but those are in small sample
34:26
Speaker 1: sizes and he's getting killed on the fastball. So I
34:32
Speaker 1: the only thing I could come up with is maybe
34:35
Speaker 1: some regression protection where you have a bigger sample size
34:39
Speaker 1: of him being an everyday player. Something happens to you
34:43
Speaker 1: know somebody, and you can at least put him out there.
34:46
Speaker 1: Know you have a you know, a stud defensively at
34:50
Speaker 1: third base. But I need some I'm always down for
34:54
Speaker 1: more information. I need something to tell me something I'm
34:56
Speaker 1: missing onkle Brian Hayes right now based on what we see.
35:00
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I would be highly surprised if the Tigers
35:04
Speaker 2: had any legitimate interests in acquiring Cabrian Hayes at this
35:08
Speaker 2: trade deadline. I don't be honest, I don't even remember
35:11
Speaker 2: what I said when we talked about him this winter.
35:14
Speaker 2: I'm looking at it like he could be an intriguing
35:16
Speaker 2: by low option beck when we thought the Tigers needed
35:20
Speaker 2: a third baseman if they weren't going to be able
35:22
Speaker 2: to get Alex Brettman. While we live in a very
35:24
Speaker 2: different world now, Zach McKinstry has been a great player.
35:28
Speaker 2: I've pointed out multiple times. I think Colt Keith's ability
35:32
Speaker 2: going back to third base really changes this picture. He's
35:35
Speaker 2: a guy. If he's hitting like this, you're trying to
35:37
Speaker 2: get as many at bats as you can. You don't
35:40
Speaker 2: want to do anything to take that away. So do
35:42
Speaker 2: you even need to chase anyone at third base, let
35:45
Speaker 2: alone a Cabrian Hayes. We look at the overall profile
35:49
Speaker 2: here and the idea of buying low hoping for a
35:53
Speaker 2: bounce back, Well that has not happened. He's one of
35:57
Speaker 2: the worst qualifying hitters in baseball. Has two home runs,
36:01
Speaker 2: he has a four ninety four OPS against the lefties,
36:05
Speaker 2: a sixty four OPS plus, and although he's on a
36:08
Speaker 2: team friendly deal, he's under contract through twenty twenty nine.
36:12
Speaker 2: You're paying them seven mil eight mil for the foreseeable future.
36:17
Speaker 2: He's a great defender, but that doesn't seem to really
36:20
Speaker 2: check any boxes that that Tigers need right now. Like
36:24
Speaker 2: that seems insane.
36:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I went and looked even like at the
36:29
Speaker 1: Jazz trade from last year from you know, the yank
36:33
Speaker 1: from the Marlins to the Yankees, and just tried to
36:36
Speaker 1: find like some some similarities on like getting a guy
36:40
Speaker 1: at his not peak value, but Jazz is and was
36:44
Speaker 1: does you know a lot more than Cabrian does, especially
36:48
Speaker 1: at the plate. So like, I don't know, I just
36:52
Speaker 1: maybe maybe you guys get on I'm on chat BCC.
36:57
Speaker 1: Maybe you guys need to tell me like what I'm
36:59
Speaker 1: missing here, because I'm open to it, like in general,
37:01
Speaker 1: like I'll never I'll never be closed off to more information.
37:05
Speaker 1: But I just don't see what the Tigers are acquiring.
37:09
Speaker 1: If they go and get a Cabrian Hayes at the
37:12
Speaker 1: trade deadline, and in the Cold Keith element, the bias element,
37:15
Speaker 1: the mckissry element, you're actually kind of crowded with options
37:18
Speaker 1: that you can throw at their base. Obviously none of
37:20
Speaker 1: them are the defender of Cabrian there, but at the
37:24
Speaker 1: same time, like they are obviously more complete players than
37:27
Speaker 1: Cabrian Hayes. So if I'm missing something, I'll at your
37:30
Speaker 1: boy and let me know, all right, Man, today was
37:35
Speaker 1: Cold Keith's day. Man, it's so so much fun to
37:38
Speaker 1: watch him. He's such an underrated story. We don't I
37:41
Speaker 1: still don't know if we gave it justice with what
37:43
Speaker 1: he's been able to do at his age and the
37:45
Speaker 1: way he's been you know, used in different situations and
37:48
Speaker 1: had to adjust on the fly. It's very impressive. It's
37:53
Speaker 1: proven to be one of the more savvy moves Scott
37:55
Speaker 1: Harris ever made sign him to that contract extension, which
37:58
Speaker 1: Cold Keith called either gonna be a great deal for
38:01
Speaker 1: Scott Harris or uh or or I'm a failure and
38:07
Speaker 1: one way. One way is looking more than the other.
38:09
Speaker 1: Right there, Cody, anything else before we get out of here?
38:12
Speaker 2: No, no, all good.
38:14
Speaker 5: Uh.
38:15
Speaker 2: I wouldn't signed that contract, man. Maybe I would have
38:18
Speaker 2: just for the money, but like like woof, that's it.
38:21
Speaker 2: I think it's a team friendly deal and uh looking
38:24
Speaker 2: like one of Scott's better moves.
38:26
Speaker 1: Right HKG to the fullest right there? All right? You
38:28
Speaker 1: can follow us on x formerly known as Twitter at
38:30
Speaker 1: Cody saved Haagen. I'm at Kieran under Source Deckley pod
38:33
Speaker 1: page at Tiger Tartu Underscore, YouTube, Instagram, Apple, Spotify, wherever
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Speaker 1: you get your podcast. We appreciate all of you. So
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Speaker 1: for Cody Stavedhagen, I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have great day,