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#2028 Managing Mayhem - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I'll get a team It's to you project for the
0:03
Speaker 1: second time, and take two Tiffany and Cook Roberts Capuccio
0:08
Speaker 1: over there on the west coast of the United States
0:11
Speaker 1: will start with tiff Who's down the bottom of Australia
0:14
Speaker 1: High Tiff High.
0:16
Speaker 2: So I have a sneaking suspicion this is going to
0:19
Speaker 2: be a fun show.
0:20
Speaker 3: No, it could be. It could be.
0:22
Speaker 1: It's always good when we get Boy Wonder on. You
0:24
Speaker 1: never know what's going to happen. He told us before
0:26
Speaker 1: we went live that in a crisis, like a high
0:29
Speaker 1: level crisis, he's amazing, but low level crisis not so good.
0:34
Speaker 3: What's that about, Bobby.
0:36
Speaker 4: I think I just do the opposite of what everybody
0:38
Speaker 4: else does. I think there's a certain level of pressure
0:41
Speaker 4: where I just calm down whether people would freak out,
0:43
Speaker 4: But in instances where most people would be calm.
0:46
Speaker 1: They freak out. I've been around you once or twice
0:50
Speaker 1: when you've freaked out.
0:51
Speaker 3: It's interesting.
0:51
Speaker 1: I want to be around you when there's a real catastrophe,
0:54
Speaker 1: just to you bask in your calm.
0:59
Speaker 4: I don't know got that way, I don't know. I
1:02
Speaker 4: don't know if I can blame Tatt's I don't know.
1:03
Speaker 4: Maybe it's like a migdala hijack, Like maybe I haven't
1:06
Speaker 4: just an enlarged a megala. A MiG dollar amidal is
1:09
Speaker 4: probably massive and that triggers me. So they like run
1:12
Speaker 4: out of whole milk at the coffee shop. Make it
1:14
Speaker 4: the cappuccino crisis, right, something that's real.
1:18
Speaker 3: That's what I look for in a potential.
1:21
Speaker 1: That's what we look for in a man, Tiff and I,
1:23
Speaker 1: we look for a blake with a bigger migdala.
1:26
Speaker 3: You send the size of it is amigdala?
1:28
Speaker 1: Fucking hell?
1:29
Speaker 3: Is that a bigger migdala? Are you just happy to
1:31
Speaker 3: see me?
1:35
Speaker 4: Doctor Roy Sugarman, I don't know. I don't know how
1:38
Speaker 4: big he's a migdala?
1:39
Speaker 2: Is?
1:39
Speaker 4: It just never came up in conversation.
1:41
Speaker 1: Why did you hold your hands apart like you just
1:44
Speaker 1: caught a fish?
1:47
Speaker 3: What all right? So for everyone who's gone, what are
1:50
Speaker 3: they talking about?
1:51
Speaker 1: A MiG dollar is in simple terms like the emotional
1:54
Speaker 1: EPI center of the brain, keep.
1:57
Speaker 4: Going, oh yeah, So he told me that prior to
2:01
Speaker 4: a seminar, my brain would function better because of the
2:04
Speaker 4: intense adhd if I did something to elevate my CTCOL
2:09
Speaker 4: means my stress horlone levels because whilst other people it
2:14
Speaker 4: adversely affects their focus, for people with ADHD, it can
2:18
Speaker 4: actually improve mine.
2:19
Speaker 3: So that's great.
2:22
Speaker 1: So what like, for example, for example, to do, like,
2:25
Speaker 1: what what should you do that I shouldn't do? You
2:28
Speaker 1: with IDHD me without it? Although that's debatable. Tips definitely
2:32
Speaker 1: got it. In fact, we've all probably got it. Maybe
2:34
Speaker 1: it's something that's transient. So what should you do to
2:38
Speaker 1: get the best out of you? If you're going into
2:41
Speaker 1: a presentation or something, don't look at.
2:46
Speaker 4: The content until I get into the room. Like if
2:49
Speaker 4: I'm doing a conference, obviously, if I'm going there to
2:52
Speaker 4: do one thing, this doesn't work. But if you're at
2:53
Speaker 4: a conference and you're slated for four or five slots,
2:57
Speaker 4: don't look at your material. So that's it. You got
3:00
Speaker 4: five seconds. It's a surprise to you. The people in
3:03
Speaker 4: the room know more about what you're going to talk
3:04
Speaker 4: about than you do. You see it, that's a lot
3:07
Speaker 4: of pressure and it'll help you focus.
3:11
Speaker 1: Do you think you are better under pressure, like real
3:15
Speaker 1: pressure than the average person or worse or about the same.
3:20
Speaker 4: I think it's context dependent, Like again, real pressure, like
3:24
Speaker 4: a work related situation. Presenting a little bit of pressure
3:29
Speaker 4: definitely increases my performance.
3:32
Speaker 1: But what about something You've got to stop talking about
3:35
Speaker 1: work for this episode presenting, and we got in trouble,
3:38
Speaker 1: you know, we got in trouble for talking about coaching.
3:41
Speaker 1: A lady sent us some email. Shout out to that lady.
3:44
Speaker 1: Third time this year we've talked about coaching, and I
3:48
Speaker 1: think it was a lady. Melissa told me I didn't
3:50
Speaker 1: see it, but shout out to that person.
3:52
Speaker 3: What about shoes crossed? About that? Well? I think I
3:55
Speaker 3: think the thing is that we just get on and talk.
3:57
Speaker 1: And because I do this every day of the year
4:00
Speaker 1: and other people's and you do it a lot, and
4:03
Speaker 1: we talk off the podcast as well, we forget what
4:06
Speaker 1: conversations we've had, which is really.
4:08
Speaker 3: Not a good way to run a podcast.
4:10
Speaker 1: So we will do better. We will do better. But
4:13
Speaker 1: what about outside of work? How do you deal with
4:15
Speaker 1: pressure like in the real world? For one of a
4:19
Speaker 1: better term, Just like we.
4:21
Speaker 4: Were talking about earlier, if it's something that is seriously
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Speaker 4: a crisis, I calm down. For whatever reason, I'm able
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Speaker 4: to focus day to day stressors that people think absolutely
4:33
Speaker 4: nothing of can flatten me.
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Speaker 3: It's very, very difficult.
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Speaker 4: And that's why I talk about work, not because I
4:42
Speaker 4: have no life to speak of whatsoever, and works the
4:45
Speaker 4: only thing I've got going. I mean, it's not exactly
4:48
Speaker 4: like that. For the most part, it is, but it's
4:50
Speaker 4: not completely like that. But I think for me, with work,
4:54
Speaker 4: I have structures in place where if something happens, it's
4:58
Speaker 4: happened so many times I have. I have a system,
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Speaker 4: I have rituals to react to that where just without
5:05
Speaker 4: those structures that those rituals, stress has a really bad
5:11
Speaker 4: effect on me.
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Speaker 3: I got it.
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Speaker 4: Like like software downloads, that's a really good example. Something
5:16
Speaker 4: goes wrong with a software download that I'm gone, Like
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Speaker 4: my blood pressures skyrocketing, my heart rates up to one
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Speaker 4: hundred and seventy five beats permitted, just sitting there, just sweating,
5:27
Speaker 4: and you know, it's just basically not being able to
5:30
Speaker 4: log into the Wi Fi and the cafe. It's not
5:33
Speaker 4: a life or death situation, but it has that impact
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Speaker 4: on me.
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Speaker 1: So what do you do then, Like when you're imploding
5:40
Speaker 1: in the cafe next to your cappuccino because there's no internet,
5:43
Speaker 1: what do you do?
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Speaker 4: Well, one, I apologize to the police officers. I try
5:51
Speaker 4: to be very respectful and just obey the commands when
5:54
Speaker 4: they show it. Now, what I do is sometimes I'll
5:58
Speaker 4: just have to change my environment. The times I'll just
6:00
Speaker 4: power through it. When I've had people around me on
6:06
Speaker 4: my team, like ian Ian O'Dwyer. I don't know how
6:09
Speaker 4: many of your listeners are familiar with those.
6:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, people know od. He's been on a bunch We
6:14
Speaker 3: love od.
6:15
Speaker 4: Od would just grab me and shake me and say
6:18
Speaker 4: something absolutely ridiculous and absurd, and I would merge that laughing.
6:23
Speaker 4: You know, my wife will just calm down. Sometimes it
6:26
Speaker 4: doesn't work when you're not calm and you have somebody
6:29
Speaker 4: telling you calm.
6:30
Speaker 3: Down, calm down.
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Speaker 4: Other times she'll like talk me through it. So having
6:34
Speaker 4: people around me that kind of know what's happening is
6:40
Speaker 4: my response, but it's not a big deal. Sometimes that
6:43
Speaker 4: helps me get my equally bring them back.
6:47
Speaker 3: It's definitely. I don't know. Is it a trit is
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Speaker 3: it a skill, is it a whatever?
6:51
Speaker 1: It is a programmed response, like an unconscious response. Being
6:56
Speaker 1: able to become a person who's good in the middle
6:59
Speaker 1: of uncertainty, is you know, an unpredictability, which is life
7:05
Speaker 1: like I think work for a lot of us is
7:07
Speaker 1: somewhat predictable and repetitious, and you know, we kind of
7:12
Speaker 1: know what's coming. There's a lot of familiarity and consistency.
7:17
Speaker 1: But away from work, like where we're not in control
7:20
Speaker 1: sometimes and it's not a stable environment and we're around
7:23
Speaker 1: different people and there's a lot of moving parts that
7:26
Speaker 1: we are not in control of, like being able to
7:29
Speaker 1: be in that kind of situation and cope, you know,
7:36
Speaker 1: and be alright with whatever happens. I mean, that's is
7:40
Speaker 1: that something that you think if do you think that's
7:42
Speaker 1: innate or do you think that's something that's trainable or
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Speaker 1: neither or both.
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Speaker 2: I was just thinking about the incause I'm a little
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Speaker 2: bit bobby in some ways. In some instances I thrive
7:55
Speaker 2: under pressure far more. And then in some instances I
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Speaker 2: think that and I go I create pressure that I
8:02
Speaker 2: capitulate under. Sometimes it's the self created pressure which I create.
8:08
Speaker 2: So I'm trying to unpack that in my head.
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Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, that's very good self awareness.
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Speaker 1: Like a lot of people not say, like even this
8:17
Speaker 1: question what part of the problem am I? And that's
8:20
Speaker 1: not a self loathing question, that's just a clever question.
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Speaker 1: That's a self awareness question because nearly, I mean not nearly.
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Speaker 1: I would say every person at some stage is the
8:33
Speaker 1: problem in their own situation. Like, I'm definitely the problem
8:38
Speaker 1: many times in whatever's going on. If I'm not the problem,
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Speaker 1: I'm part of the problem. So for you to figure
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Speaker 1: out and identify it that you create your own stress,
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Speaker 1: that is a really good start. I mean, because you
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Speaker 1: can't change what you're not aware of, and you can't
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Speaker 1: change what you won't.
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Speaker 3: Own up to.
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Speaker 1: So being able to do that, Yeah, what are your
9:01
Speaker 1: thoughts on that?
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Speaker 3: Roubt to me?
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Speaker 4: I wonder if it's a learned behavior, like have you
9:07
Speaker 4: just not learned to manage your stress you haven't practiced
9:10
Speaker 4: stress management? Or does it have something to do with
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Speaker 4: neurobiology or both? Because understanding what meaning you attach to it,
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Speaker 4: I think directly corresponds with the efficacy of the strategy
9:22
Speaker 4: you developed. So let's think the Walter Michelle study, for example,
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Speaker 4: in the nineteen sixties group of very young kids in
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Speaker 4: the room, let's say, averaging about five years old. Research
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Speaker 4: just says you can have one marshmallow right now, I'm
9:35
Speaker 4: just going to put this in full view right in
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Speaker 4: front of you or I'm going to step out of
9:39
Speaker 4: the room for a bit. If you can wait until
9:41
Speaker 4: I come back, you can have two marshmallows, double the reward.
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Speaker 4: A lot of kids despite their greatest effort. It wasn't
9:48
Speaker 4: lack of trying, wasn't lack of discipline or willpower. Some
9:51
Speaker 4: kids had to sit on their hand to stop them
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Speaker 4: from like taking the marshmallow. Some kids lick the marshmallow,
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Speaker 4: smell the marshmallow. It's just like do we everything? But
10:00
Speaker 4: they just did not have the capacity to wait until
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Speaker 4: the researcherer returned. So you ask yourself a five years old,
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Speaker 4: how much of that is a learned behavior? Like how
10:09
Speaker 4: much of these kids learned about discipline strategies? And obviously
10:14
Speaker 4: the kids that were able to delay gratification when they
10:17
Speaker 4: followed them, they did a lot better in life and
10:20
Speaker 4: scholastic aptitude assessments than the kids that couldn't wait. And
10:23
Speaker 4: that makes sense. But also you have to look at
10:25
Speaker 4: what are the variables that are not accounted for? So
10:29
Speaker 4: what was the socioeconomic status of all of those kids
10:33
Speaker 4: within that study? Because I could tell you when you're
10:35
Speaker 4: growing up in a house where food is scarce or
10:38
Speaker 4: food will be taken away from you. If you don't
10:40
Speaker 4: eat it instantly, you're not going to have the same
10:43
Speaker 4: level of self regulation, especially at five years old.
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Speaker 3: So what exactly is causing that?
10:49
Speaker 4: Phineas Gauge is another brilliant example, probably one of the
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Speaker 4: most disciplined, organized, like upstanding individual rules that you could
11:01
Speaker 4: possibly imagine, has an accident with a tamping iron, goes
11:05
Speaker 4: through his eye, out through his brain, lose this total
11:08
Speaker 4: ability of self regulate. He becomes literally unemployable for obvious reasons.
11:15
Speaker 4: So how much of a behavior change strategy or discipline
11:21
Speaker 4: would to help Phineas Gauge. So if if it's a
11:26
Speaker 4: problem with my prefrontal lobes, which I know it is, well,
11:30
Speaker 4: my approach is going to be different. I'm not going
11:32
Speaker 4: to double down and try harder, because that's going to
11:35
Speaker 4: send me in the opposite direction I want to go.
11:39
Speaker 4: For me, it might be I'm going to ask myself
11:41
Speaker 4: a serious one. I'm going to do effective labeling, like
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Speaker 4: acknowledge out loud. I have turetts. It's very easy for
11:47
Speaker 4: me to talk to myself in a variety of social situations,
11:50
Speaker 4: what exactly is going on?
11:52
Speaker 3: What am I feeling I'm going to.
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Speaker 4: Ask myself questions, because questions cause you to upregulate your
11:57
Speaker 4: prefront of cortex, Like what is actually the problem right now?
12:01
Speaker 4: It doesn't even matter if I can solve it or
12:04
Speaker 4: if that brings any greater level of clarity. Just asking
12:08
Speaker 4: that question causes me to upregulate the parts of my
12:12
Speaker 4: brain that I really need right now that I'm not
12:16
Speaker 4: really tapping into.
12:18
Speaker 3: So if if you have a broader scope.
12:22
Speaker 4: Around the definition of why does this happen? I think
12:25
Speaker 4: you have greater diversity in terms of the strategy you choose.
12:30
Speaker 4: And I think that plays along with hope, like when
12:35
Speaker 4: people have hope like I can get better. A lot
12:37
Speaker 4: of that is what is the degree and breadth of
12:41
Speaker 4: agency afforded to you. If I have only one possible
12:44
Speaker 4: solution and that doesn't work, that's not very good for
12:48
Speaker 4: self regulation. But if I have multiple things and it's like, Okay,
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Speaker 4: I try strategy A, it didn't work, well, I have
12:54
Speaker 4: strategy B because it might be something else. I think
12:58
Speaker 4: that gives you greater sense of hope and adaptability.
13:04
Speaker 1: So to what extent if there's a big neurobiological influence,
13:08
Speaker 1: like in other words, just the way that our individual
13:11
Speaker 1: brain works like and also other variables like socioeconomic stuff,
13:16
Speaker 1: like when it makes total sense when you go for
13:19
Speaker 1: this kid who doesn't has probably had two marshmallows in
13:22
Speaker 1: his life, the opportunity to have one in the moment
13:24
Speaker 1: versus two down the track, he's going to go for
13:27
Speaker 1: the one in the moment. If you had a given
13:29
Speaker 1: me the fat twelve year old, I would have eaten
13:31
Speaker 1: the bloke's hand while he was putting it on the table, right,
13:34
Speaker 1: so would I probably would have gone the one as well.
13:39
Speaker 1: That's just me hashtag jumbo. So to what extent then,
13:45
Speaker 1: can we override as not the right word, but work
13:50
Speaker 1: around our genetic and eurobiological disposition or predisposition because we
13:56
Speaker 1: don't want to go, oh, that's just the way that
13:58
Speaker 1: I am.
13:59
Speaker 3: I have no control. That's just my Brian, that's the
14:03
Speaker 3: way I respond, So just put up with me. Whatever
14:06
Speaker 3: that is.
14:08
Speaker 1: To what extent can we, you know, create new habits
14:12
Speaker 1: and new operating systems despite how we're wired.
14:16
Speaker 4: Well, I think most people can. I would agree with you,
14:19
Speaker 4: And even if someone doesn't have a lot of capacity,
14:25
Speaker 4: pretending as if you did is only going to engage
14:29
Speaker 4: you within the rituals and the strategies that elevate whatever
14:33
Speaker 4: capacity you have, so being able, I'm completely hopeless around this.
14:39
Speaker 4: This is probably not a great approach some people. They
14:41
Speaker 4: might be on the other end of that bell curve
14:45
Speaker 4: where their capacity is greatly diminished. I know, for me,
14:50
Speaker 4: for better or for worse, because sometimes I know I'm
14:53
Speaker 4: frustrating for people to be around. I know that, And
14:57
Speaker 4: what I will do is try to structure or my
15:00
Speaker 4: day and my rituals in advance so I have a
15:04
Speaker 4: greater capacity. So how I start my day determines how
15:08
Speaker 4: I engage with my day, and it's a big predictor
15:11
Speaker 4: about how I finish my day, which is why living
15:14
Speaker 4: on the road or going out to do a seminar
15:17
Speaker 4: is so beneficial because it puts me in an environment where.
15:22
Speaker 3: I structure the very first hour or.
15:24
Speaker 4: Two of my day in a way that helps me.
15:27
Speaker 4: Like so I'll go out and I'll say, Okay, I'm
15:29
Speaker 4: gonna sit down here, I'm going to have this cup
15:32
Speaker 4: of coffee. I'm going to read this material. You know,
15:35
Speaker 4: I'm going to move my body. Movement is critical because
15:38
Speaker 4: movement will decrease the level of stress hormones in your bloodstream,
15:43
Speaker 4: which is very beneficial the nature euretic peptides that are
15:47
Speaker 4: produced by the heart whenever you're engaged in movement. So
15:50
Speaker 4: engaging a movement frequently intermittently that works. You know, asking
15:55
Speaker 4: yourself questions. What's three questions I'll ask myself as I
15:59
Speaker 4: start to feel not like if I go from let's
16:03
Speaker 4: say seven is a complete meltdown. What happens when I
16:06
Speaker 4: start feeling it like three and four?
16:09
Speaker 3: What can I.
16:10
Speaker 4: Interject and X myself at that point? And do do
16:13
Speaker 4: I even need to deal with this? I think sometimes
16:16
Speaker 4: what makes a crisis a crisis is it's imminent, this
16:19
Speaker 4: urgency involved. But a lot of times it's not like
16:22
Speaker 4: we'll read an email and we'll think, oh, this is
16:25
Speaker 4: a crisis. But I know I've done this, and I
16:28
Speaker 4: know we know people who have done this. I don't know,
16:32
Speaker 4: maybe intimately, but if I responded to that email an
16:36
Speaker 4: hour later or a day later, there would have been
16:39
Speaker 4: zero consequences and it only would have made my response better,
16:44
Speaker 4: and the outcome and the experience for everyone involved would
16:49
Speaker 4: be much much different. I know I've stressed out people
16:52
Speaker 4: I work with because I try to multitask come on
16:54
Speaker 4: a break, Oh, let me just answer that email. And
16:57
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, Nimrod, did you even read the email?
17:01
Speaker 4: And that was like totally not the response. Wow, maybe
17:05
Speaker 4: there's a better time to do this. And I can
17:07
Speaker 4: compartmentalize all of my emails one or two times in
17:11
Speaker 4: the day. And I think when you do that, there's
17:14
Speaker 4: a lot of fear because we live in a world
17:16
Speaker 4: that expects an immediate response. But what I learned, as
17:19
Speaker 4: you've probably learned, when you're on a plane, especially if
17:23
Speaker 4: you were traveling when they didn't have Wi Fi on
17:25
Speaker 4: every flight, you can't respond. When you're up in front
17:28
Speaker 4: of a room for the next four hours, you can't respond.
17:31
Speaker 4: And when you can't respond, ninety nine percent of the
17:34
Speaker 4: time people.
17:35
Speaker 3: Do adapt to that.
17:36
Speaker 4: They learn, Okay, this person's not going to respond within
17:38
Speaker 4: five minutes. It might be five hours. So I think
17:41
Speaker 4: these things like compart mentalization and structuring and avoiding multitasking
17:48
Speaker 4: and giving yourself like every hour ninety minutes a little
17:52
Speaker 4: bit of downtime and just get up and move and
17:55
Speaker 4: change the environment that you're confined within. I think all
17:59
Speaker 4: of those things matter quite a bit.
18:04
Speaker 3: Do you how good do you see? This is not
18:06
Speaker 3: a loaded question. This is a curious question.
18:09
Speaker 1: How good do you think you are at understanding other
18:12
Speaker 1: people's perspective? You know, like that kind of theory of
18:17
Speaker 1: mine stuff, understanding how other one, how someone else is
18:20
Speaker 1: in the moment with you, not agreeing, not aligning, but
18:23
Speaker 1: just having an awareness of what's going on for them.
18:26
Speaker 5: Now.
18:29
Speaker 4: I range from below average too well above average. And
18:36
Speaker 4: it's context dependent. Like let's say you and I met
18:40
Speaker 4: at a coffee shop and we were just having a conversation.
18:44
Speaker 3: It's very likely that I would be in my own head.
18:48
Speaker 4: It's very likely that you know, I would be excited
18:51
Speaker 4: because I like you, I like talking to you. I
18:53
Speaker 4: like coffee. So it's a lot of things that I'm enjoying.
18:56
Speaker 3: So what do you like more?
18:59
Speaker 1: Mail coffee? I'm not in a little bit just out
19:02
Speaker 1: of interest.
19:03
Speaker 4: While we talking cappuccino a lot, we're just talking about
19:06
Speaker 4: a long black. I need to talking about a flat
19:08
Speaker 4: wat oh flat white?
19:12
Speaker 1: Am I describing myself now? Or a coffee?
19:14
Speaker 3: Anyway? Carry on?
19:16
Speaker 4: Carry So let's say let's say I'm in an environment
19:20
Speaker 4: where I like things equally and one thing's not better
19:24
Speaker 4: than the other thing.
19:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I probably would.
19:28
Speaker 4: I'm in my head, and I have a very hard
19:31
Speaker 4: times reading people. If I went in there and you said, Bobby,
19:34
Speaker 4: I need to talk to you about someday there's something
19:36
Speaker 4: on my mind, and I was intentional, and I walked
19:39
Speaker 4: in there completely listening and focused. I believe that my
19:44
Speaker 4: ability to read another person conversationally it is rather good.
19:53
Speaker 4: And the reason why I say that is because again,
19:56
Speaker 4: not to go back to work, but my instructors.
19:59
Speaker 3: I'm working with a coach right now.
20:01
Speaker 4: I just got out of a year long class on
20:03
Speaker 4: advanced coaching. My clients, one thing I hear consistently.
20:07
Speaker 3: Is your ability to.
20:10
Speaker 4: Encapsulate what I'm saying and reflect it back to me,
20:14
Speaker 4: where I have a greater understanding of what I just said,
20:17
Speaker 4: what it meant, the experience of it, and why I
20:20
Speaker 4: said it just dramatically deepens. And I've heard that from
20:24
Speaker 4: so many people where they say, okay, when it comes
20:27
Speaker 4: to coaching, you know, different people excel in different areas.
20:32
Speaker 4: Empathetic reflection is your superpower.
20:35
Speaker 1: Can you not talk about coaching today? We've got in trouble.
20:38
Speaker 1: Can you talk about something else? This will be our
20:41
Speaker 1: fourth time this year. Can you not talk about coaching?
20:45
Speaker 4: I hope she's not listening to this code.
20:46
Speaker 3: She's definitely listening. She's definitely listening. It's like your safety
20:51
Speaker 3: in it. It's like your safety in it.
20:54
Speaker 1: If I have a question for you when you're with
20:58
Speaker 1: I mean, you're a communicator, and you're a coach, and
21:00
Speaker 1: you're a speaker, and you're all the stuff, Like you're
21:01
Speaker 1: in front of people all the time, you're on a
21:04
Speaker 1: mic all the time.
21:06
Speaker 3: How much of.
21:06
Speaker 1: When you are one on one with somebody is about
21:09
Speaker 1: paying attention to what they're not saying. Do you have
21:12
Speaker 1: an awareness of that? Or you are one hundred Are
21:14
Speaker 1: you one hundred percent kind of just channeled into the
21:17
Speaker 1: words or do you have a bigger than words awareness
21:20
Speaker 1: in the moment?
21:21
Speaker 3: What does that mean? How do you operationalize that?
21:26
Speaker 2: Increasingly so increasingly so, I have an awareness on a
21:31
Speaker 2: lot more than that. And that has come through the
21:34
Speaker 2: comfort of not springing to answers and not springing to
21:40
Speaker 2: being giving advice or nutting things out in the moment,
21:47
Speaker 2: but just really actively listening and considering and taking things
21:52
Speaker 2: away and allowing it to percolate. And I think when
21:56
Speaker 2: you jump in and make something of what you're hearing
22:00
Speaker 2: straight away in the moment, you almost I was gonna say,
22:04
Speaker 2: cock block. That's a bit rude, isn't it. You almost
22:06
Speaker 2: cock block yourself from taking it away and thinking about
22:10
Speaker 2: it really deeply, because I know when I listen.
22:13
Speaker 3: There's an analogy for you that might be the name
22:16
Speaker 3: of the episode fuck you, but it's true.
22:23
Speaker 2: For me. It's like, if I just listen, I find
22:25
Speaker 2: when I walk away, it just percolates and I think
22:29
Speaker 2: and I consider, and I come up with some really
22:33
Speaker 2: great I don't know, perspectives or questions or things to
22:38
Speaker 2: think about.
22:40
Speaker 1: For me, I'm of course I'm interested in what people
22:43
Speaker 1: are saying, but I'm always cognizant of the fact that
22:48
Speaker 1: what they're saying might be, I say, might a smoke
22:52
Speaker 1: screen or a story or a pr exercise, you know
22:58
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like, it's not that I don
23:01
Speaker 1: trust them. I'm just I'm like, I'm not sure I'm
23:03
Speaker 1: getting all the story or maybe even the important part
23:06
Speaker 1: of the story, and so I'm trying to without being
23:11
Speaker 1: what's the word inappropriate or untrustworthy or or distrusting, I
23:17
Speaker 1: should say, I'm just trying to figure out what's really
23:20
Speaker 1: going on, especially with people for whom you know, there's
23:24
Speaker 1: some big shit going on in their life, and trying
23:28
Speaker 1: to trying to read between the lines and trying to
23:32
Speaker 1: trying to deduce, like what are the actual Like I
23:35
Speaker 1: know what you're telling me the issues are, but I'm
23:38
Speaker 1: not sure that they are the issues you know. And
23:41
Speaker 1: that's of course, this is like, you know, this is
23:45
Speaker 1: delving into that space of what's being said that isn't
23:48
Speaker 1: actually being said. But I think I think try, you know,
23:52
Speaker 1: being able to understand that people people that way, and
23:54
Speaker 1: of course I get it wrong and we all get
23:56
Speaker 1: it wrong, and I fuck up, and I assume things
23:58
Speaker 1: that are flawed, of course, but having that bigger than
24:02
Speaker 1: words awareness, like I'm more interested in I'm interested in
24:06
Speaker 1: what you're saying, but I'm interested in understanding you beyond
24:08
Speaker 1: your words. I'm interested in what's going on with your
24:11
Speaker 1: body and your energy and your facial expressions and your
24:14
Speaker 1: responses and your behaviors over time.
24:18
Speaker 5: I want to see what you do, because what you
24:21
Speaker 5: do tells me who you are more than what you say.
24:24
Speaker 5: I want to see what you do over time, not
24:27
Speaker 5: in a judgmental way, in a curiosity way, so I
24:30
Speaker 5: can help you because your behavior, your choices, your lifestyle,
24:35
Speaker 5: all that stuff, how you typically are. That's a lot
24:39
Speaker 5: of information for me. What you're telling me in this
24:42
Speaker 5: thirty minute chat not so much. But maybe it's the
24:46
Speaker 5: synthesis of all of that, Bobby, like what people are
24:49
Speaker 5: saying and what people are not saying. That gives us
24:51
Speaker 5: maybe a more comprehensive understanding so that we can help
24:55
Speaker 5: people or serve people.
24:59
Speaker 4: Do conversationally share your observations with people.
25:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do.
25:05
Speaker 1: I do when it's appropriate, And but there are things.
25:09
Speaker 1: I mean, you know this when I'll often sit with
25:12
Speaker 1: somebody and the sense that I'm getting is that they're
25:14
Speaker 1: insecure and they're trying to impress me.
25:16
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not going to say that.
25:19
Speaker 1: You know, but but I'll I'll I'll note that, or
25:24
Speaker 1: they're fearful, or they're uncomfortable. I might just say, how
25:29
Speaker 1: are you feeling? I might just go, are you okay?
25:31
Speaker 1: How's this for you? How's this sitting here with me?
25:34
Speaker 1: How's that for you? And sometimes I'll go, honestly, I'm nervous.
25:37
Speaker 1: I go, that's cool. I go, that's not the worst
25:40
Speaker 1: state to be in, and that's you know, so, and
25:43
Speaker 1: then we just go from there. Rather than pretending that
25:46
Speaker 1: nothing's going on and speaking from a platform that's not
25:50
Speaker 1: really authentic.
25:53
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, I think that.
25:55
Speaker 1: But I think with all of this, you know, communication, connection,
25:59
Speaker 1: building rapport, us to respect all of that stuff as
26:03
Speaker 1: everyone knows that it's listening and us three know. It's
26:06
Speaker 1: not like, oh well, here's the five step plan. So
26:08
Speaker 1: this is how we build trust. Well, no, with somebody else.
26:12
Speaker 1: With one person, we're building trust that way with somebody else,
26:15
Speaker 1: that's going to create a problem.
26:20
Speaker 2: I think I always think about how little we really
26:25
Speaker 2: know our emotional states, Like I've been looking into it
26:29
Speaker 2: heaps lately, because that's part of what I'm talking about lately,
26:33
Speaker 2: is our capacity to understand what am I feeling? What
26:37
Speaker 2: are these emotions? What's this sense nection? Like beyond bad,
26:42
Speaker 2: beyond I feel shit and sad like what a So
26:45
Speaker 2: when we talked before about me in a state of pressure,
26:48
Speaker 2: I've been sitting with it in my mind and going
26:51
Speaker 2: and in that moment, I thought, you know what I
26:54
Speaker 2: think it is. Maybe what has my attention right now
26:58
Speaker 2: is it's that thing about trust for me. So I
27:02
Speaker 2: think that I have a story that I don't trust myself.
27:07
Speaker 2: So whether it's self imposed stress or stress where I
27:12
Speaker 2: am in need of making a decision or a choice,
27:15
Speaker 2: I go into the fight flight than crazy. You know, like, oh,
27:20
Speaker 2: Tiff doesn't make good decisions. She's made some really poor
27:23
Speaker 2: decisions in the past, and so she doesn't have the
27:25
Speaker 2: capacity to recognize good decisions and choices. So if there's
27:28
Speaker 2: a decision here, panic town, and then I stay in
27:31
Speaker 2: that spiral.
27:33
Speaker 3: I've never thought that before.
27:34
Speaker 2: I just knew that. I just know that sometimes a
27:37
Speaker 2: high state of arousal in chaos, I perform like a
27:41
Speaker 2: superstar and I'm like fucking the best, and then sometimes
27:46
Speaker 2: I'm creating myself and I'm chaotic and I'm useless. So
27:51
Speaker 2: finding out what is the emotion, what is the what
27:54
Speaker 2: gets me in that state, and what is this what
27:56
Speaker 2: is the metaphor, I can start to recognize that it
27:58
Speaker 2: might be happening that might answer a question there.
28:03
Speaker 1: I think also for you and for everyone. But like
28:05
Speaker 1: when I think of you, right, you've been through some trauma,
28:08
Speaker 1: so there's a bit of shit that's gone on in
28:10
Speaker 1: your background. You have this propensity to get angry, which
28:14
Speaker 1: I don't, right, which is just do you know what
28:17
Speaker 1: I mean? But there are lots. It's like if you
28:19
Speaker 1: haven't eaten, that affects you emotionally, Like if you're hungry
28:23
Speaker 1: and you don't eat food, I don't want to be
28:25
Speaker 1: around you.
28:26
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to be around you.
28:27
Speaker 1: Once you've had food, then hit me up, right, But
28:29
Speaker 1: before that, just fuck off and go and find a cake,
28:33
Speaker 1: right like and then with Bobby, they're a different vari
28:37
Speaker 1: With me, there are different things. It's like, I know
28:40
Speaker 1: that I spent a lot of my life trying to
28:42
Speaker 1: get approval on validation and acceptance through what I looked
28:46
Speaker 1: like because I looked so terrible or I thought I
28:49
Speaker 1: looked so terrible when I was a kid. You know,
28:51
Speaker 1: we all have issues, like and I still I still reckon.
28:57
Speaker 1: There's a low level insecurity and neediness in myself that's
29:04
Speaker 1: around my appearance. Even though I understand all this stuff.
29:08
Speaker 1: Do I ever want someone to do? I like it
29:11
Speaker 1: when someone says something great, of course I do. Does
29:14
Speaker 1: it make me? Does it affect me in a positive
29:16
Speaker 1: of course it does?
29:17
Speaker 2: You know.
29:17
Speaker 1: So I think being able to recognize all of these
29:21
Speaker 1: good and bad or just not necessarily either good or bad,
29:25
Speaker 1: but just relevant.
29:27
Speaker 3: Kind of aspects of who we are and.
29:29
Speaker 1: Then being able to recognize and do something with that
29:34
Speaker 1: rather than judging it or pigeonholing ourselves. That gives us
29:39
Speaker 1: a platform to move forward positively and go, ah, this
29:42
Speaker 1: is what I'm doing, you know, yeah, and saying because
29:46
Speaker 1: I was insecure, somebody would go I did X. Part
29:49
Speaker 1: of me would want to go, I did three X,
29:52
Speaker 1: you know, because I want to be impressive. But just
29:54
Speaker 1: recognizing before that fucking comes out of my mouth, what
29:57
Speaker 1: is that about?
29:59
Speaker 3: Like what?
30:00
Speaker 1: You just dive into their X and tell them how
30:02
Speaker 1: great their X is before you start. In fact, don't
30:04
Speaker 1: talk about your three X, talk about their one X
30:07
Speaker 1: like it's the best thing ever, and make it about them,
30:10
Speaker 1: not you. I still have to consciously do that. I
30:14
Speaker 1: still have to mind my mind in real time and
30:17
Speaker 1: mind my ego and mind my insecurity. What about you, Bobby.
30:24
Speaker 4: One attribute that I have found to be helpful that
30:29
Speaker 4: I don't think a year ago I would have pleased
30:32
Speaker 4: as much value on Not because I didn't value it,
30:35
Speaker 4: because it just it wasn't something front of mind. It's curiosity,
30:39
Speaker 4: because curiosity takes me out of my own head. And
30:43
Speaker 4: one of the reasons why I'm in my own head
30:44
Speaker 4: council is because I struggle with a lot of anxiety.
30:48
Speaker 4: I'm always anxious, Like right now, I'm anxious. I have
30:51
Speaker 4: not a reason to be, but I'm anxious, and I
30:55
Speaker 4: carry that with me throughout the day. And I'm also
30:57
Speaker 4: easily distracted. Not only just curiosity give me a focal point.
31:02
Speaker 4: It gets me out of my head and it puts
31:04
Speaker 4: me square into the world with other things, with other people.
31:08
Speaker 4: And that's enormous, And I know that a lot of
31:13
Speaker 4: times people have conversations it's like, oh, well, my environment
31:17
Speaker 4: would be so much better, but my boss, my colleagues,
31:22
Speaker 4: the people I work with, and all of that might
31:25
Speaker 4: be true, But where does that leave you? If it
31:28
Speaker 4: falls into the category of beyond your control? I think
31:31
Speaker 4: it's like, Okay, what am I curious about? And connecting
31:36
Speaker 4: curiosity to affirmation can work wonders. And what I mean
31:40
Speaker 4: by that is, let's say you're at work, no matter
31:43
Speaker 4: what job you do, and you have like the worst
31:46
Speaker 4: colleague in the world. There are things that that individual
31:50
Speaker 4: is going to do that or right, Let's say if
31:52
Speaker 4: it's only twenty percent of the time, eighty percent of
31:55
Speaker 4: the time, they're an absolute muppet. But if you're curious
31:59
Speaker 4: affirmatively like okay, well, let me notice their strength, let
32:02
Speaker 4: me notice what catch them doing something right, and then
32:06
Speaker 4: you bring that up like okay, wow, Tiff, you know
32:09
Speaker 4: when you took that initiative and you know you took
32:12
Speaker 4: out all the rubbish, kind of cleaned up the workspace.
32:15
Speaker 4: We didn't have to do that, nothing got backed up.
32:18
Speaker 4: I really appreciate that. I noticed you do that frequently.
32:21
Speaker 4: And it's it's not like, oh, great job, Tiff. That
32:23
Speaker 4: doesn't mean anything. It's noticing something specific, making a generous
32:29
Speaker 4: assumption around the intentions underneath it, and how it impacts
32:33
Speaker 4: others positively. Well, it might have zero impact on Tiff. Well,
32:39
Speaker 4: the first time I say that, she might be like okay, yeah,
32:42
Speaker 4: like kiss off, like I don't care what you think.
32:44
Speaker 4: But over time she might try to now live up
32:48
Speaker 4: to that because let's say I say that, somebody else
32:52
Speaker 4: says that, okay, wow, that's an aspect of TIFF's personality
32:57
Speaker 4: that's valuable to other people. So we I try to
33:00
Speaker 4: bridge that gap and just like through cognitive dissonance, try
33:04
Speaker 4: to become more consistent with the person that we would
33:07
Speaker 4: rather be and not have that other disruptive aspect show
33:13
Speaker 4: up as frequently, and you start to be the type
33:17
Speaker 4: of person that feels better about yourself because you're looking
33:20
Speaker 4: for that and you're someone who builds people up. And
33:23
Speaker 4: when you start to model that culturally, you create a
33:26
Speaker 4: culture of curiosity and mutual affirmation, whether that is at
33:33
Speaker 4: in the kitchen where you work, or whether that's at
33:35
Speaker 4: the dinner table, or whether that's at the pub. Socially,
33:40
Speaker 4: I think that's something that is very constructive for all
33:44
Speaker 4: parties involved, and that and it puts you outside of
33:47
Speaker 4: your head.
33:49
Speaker 3: What do you think? I want this from both you?
33:52
Speaker 3: Who are an idea from both of you?
33:54
Speaker 2: What are the.
33:55
Speaker 1: Pros and cons of being vulnerable, like publicly vulnerable? Way
34:00
Speaker 1: you maybe open the door that normally you only open
34:03
Speaker 1: that door personally, where you let people into what you
34:05
Speaker 1: think or feel or not in a kind of a
34:10
Speaker 1: pretty comfortable you know. Oh look at me, everyone, I'm
34:13
Speaker 1: being humble, like to me when you like public humility
34:17
Speaker 1: is really not really you know, but that real raw.
34:20
Speaker 3: No.
34:20
Speaker 1: I actually part of me would rather you didn't know this,
34:23
Speaker 1: but I think you knowing this about me might help
34:27
Speaker 1: you like that there's still stuff I'm sure I don't share,
34:32
Speaker 1: but I try to tell everybody you know, or I
34:35
Speaker 1: try to share as much of me as I can
34:38
Speaker 1: so that people realize I'm definitely not special, not spectacular,
34:41
Speaker 1: not gifted, not brilliant, and it might encourage them to
34:45
Speaker 1: try to What level do you think being vulnerable for
34:49
Speaker 1: you will start with you, Tiff, is a good or
34:52
Speaker 1: bad thing?
34:53
Speaker 3: Are their pros and cons?
34:55
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, I think there's a lot of pros because
34:58
Speaker 2: I think it's when one my biggest lessons. I think
35:01
Speaker 2: being vulnerable was probably one of my biggest challenges, and
35:05
Speaker 2: so I think emotional depth and depth in relationships and
35:11
Speaker 2: depth in self awareness are all pretty big pros for me.
35:16
Speaker 2: Like I don't think when we're not vulnerable. When I'm
35:19
Speaker 2: not vulnerable, I lose sight of who I really am
35:22
Speaker 2: because we start to wear that mask. We start to
35:24
Speaker 2: or I start to, I start to be a version
35:27
Speaker 2: of myself, and then I forget who I am, and
35:29
Speaker 2: then I so I lose touch with that ability to
35:33
Speaker 2: really know myself. Obvious cons are we're open to get
35:38
Speaker 2: hurt where obvious cons are if the practice of vulnerability
35:43
Speaker 2: becomes a thing we just do, are we doing that
35:47
Speaker 2: with the right people. Are we using it as a
35:50
Speaker 2: as a tool or a or a weapon of sorts.
35:55
Speaker 2: You know, I've heard people use the word weaponizing vulnerability,
36:00
Speaker 2: almost using it to keep people away. So I think
36:02
Speaker 2: it's yeah, there's definitely pros and cons. I think for me,
36:06
Speaker 2: there's a lot of con sorry, a lot of pros.
36:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bobby, I feel like you're pretty vulnerable. I feel
36:14
Speaker 1: like you open the door pretty wide.
36:17
Speaker 4: And it does depend because to me, semantics are important.
36:22
Speaker 4: We say vulnerability, what do we mean? And I think
36:26
Speaker 4: a lot of people because there's so much written in
36:28
Speaker 4: the work environment about what vulnerability is, it doesn't mean
36:31
Speaker 4: walking around like a Hallmark card and sharing every emotion
36:35
Speaker 4: and thought in your head. I don't think that's vulnerability
36:37
Speaker 4: at all. I think vulnerability is acting courageously in terms
36:44
Speaker 4: of being honest within the context. So when I'm with Amy,
36:50
Speaker 4: my wife, and let's say we're having a situation or
36:53
Speaker 4: a marriage, and it relates back to something that happened
36:59
Speaker 4: to me in my upbringing, and therefore I show up
37:03
Speaker 4: this way, well, that is a contextually appropriate and very
37:07
Speaker 4: deep form of vulnerability. I'm not going to share the
37:11
Speaker 4: details of my abuse in a board meeting and well,
37:15
Speaker 4: you know when I look at this pie chart, what
37:17
Speaker 4: I think about is when I was six. Yeah, that's
37:19
Speaker 4: probably that's probably not going to go over very well
37:22
Speaker 4: in that meeting. But we're a great example is Volkswagen,
37:27
Speaker 4: massive company, global reputation. It all comes crumbling down very
37:34
Speaker 4: very quickly because they cheated on their emissions. So they
37:41
Speaker 4: so basically they were trying to utilize software to fool
37:46
Speaker 4: the emissions machines and they got caught. Now why did
37:50
Speaker 4: that happen? Because they were in an environment where you
37:52
Speaker 4: couldn't be vulnerable. If I'm an engineer, vulnerability is saying, Okay,
37:57
Speaker 4: we are running into a stumbling block and we don't
37:59
Speaker 4: know how to fix it, and I don't have the
38:01
Speaker 4: answer for it, and I'm going to need a team
38:04
Speaker 4: of people to try to sort this out because we
38:06
Speaker 4: cannot move forward on this project where we are today.
38:11
Speaker 4: It's like when you're sitting in that meeting, or when
38:14
Speaker 4: you're sitting in that social situation and you know that
38:17
Speaker 4: you saying something is constructive, you know it needs to
38:21
Speaker 4: be said, and you don't say it. That's a lack
38:25
Speaker 4: of vulnerability, and I think that's damaging. That's damaging to
38:29
Speaker 4: any type of relationship, whether it's an intimate relationship, whether
38:33
Speaker 4: it's a social or professional relationship. But vulnerability, to me
38:38
Speaker 4: has contextual levels. You don't want to walk in and
38:42
Speaker 4: be this complete open book, and you don't want to
38:45
Speaker 4: do that with absolutely everyone. Because I heard something, I
38:50
Speaker 4: forgot where I heard it, but it was so beautiful
38:52
Speaker 4: because it related to something that I struggle with, boundaries.
38:57
Speaker 4: Not saying I have boundary issues, so I don't respect
38:59
Speaker 4: pople's boundaries, but for some people, boundaries become far more
39:06
Speaker 4: important than other people. And what I heard was boundaries
39:10
Speaker 4: are not things that you set up in your life
39:13
Speaker 4: to keep people out. Boundaries are things you set up
39:16
Speaker 4: in your life so you can keep people in. And
39:20
Speaker 4: I thought, oh, that is beautiful, And I think everybody
39:24
Speaker 4: has the right to identify what are the boundaries I
39:28
Speaker 4: need to keep people close to me, you know, and
39:32
Speaker 4: keep my relationships productive.
39:37
Speaker 1: That's deep, dude, that's deep. Yeah, No, no, I like it.
39:43
Speaker 3: I like it very much.
39:44
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about one more thing and then
39:46
Speaker 1: we'll wind up, and I'm interested in We kind of
39:49
Speaker 1: touched on it before, like when I was talking about,
39:53
Speaker 1: you know, getting approval and validation and acceptance through appearance.
40:00
Speaker 1: It seems like, again, this is just my perception in
40:04
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, It's never been more kind of prevalent.
40:09
Speaker 1: I guess this like who I am as what I
40:12
Speaker 1: look like? Who I am as my body or my
40:14
Speaker 1: abs or my pretty face or my handsome face or
40:17
Speaker 1: my you know, and that identity intertwined with my Instagram,
40:23
Speaker 1: my my post. That The reason I thought of this
40:27
Speaker 1: was I was literally scrolling this morning and.
40:32
Speaker 3: A thing came up, doesn't matter. It was a person.
40:35
Speaker 3: It was a.
40:37
Speaker 1: What do you call it, an influencer of sorts, and
40:41
Speaker 1: I looked at their page and essentially it was a
40:44
Speaker 1: thousand photos.
40:45
Speaker 6: Of them, like their face, their body, they face, their body,
40:50
Speaker 6: they face their body, body face, body face, different location,
40:53
Speaker 6: different outfits, same body, same face.
40:55
Speaker 1: And it was honestly ninety nine percent here's me, take
41:00
Speaker 1: a photo of me, putting up a photo of me.
41:03
Speaker 3: I'm and I know this might sound judga or I
41:06
Speaker 3: don't mean it too.
41:07
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just thinking, what, like, how does that
41:12
Speaker 1: go for somebody over the long term when okay, you're
41:17
Speaker 1: not you know, like looks fade, bodies fade, you know,
41:23
Speaker 1: like is this, Okay, I know this is a philosophical
41:27
Speaker 1: and a bloody I don't know, a moral, bloody conundrum,
41:30
Speaker 1: is it? Like I just and I don't care about that.
41:33
Speaker 1: It's like, by the way, this person very attractive, all
41:37
Speaker 1: of that, well done, You're amazing. But I just think
41:40
Speaker 1: about emotionally and mentally and socially, and I think about
41:45
Speaker 1: their health and their wellbeing, like if all of a
41:48
Speaker 1: sudden they don't look like that, or all of a sudden,
41:50
Speaker 1: there's that something happens where this entire sense of who
41:55
Speaker 1: I am in the world is built on these thousand
41:58
Speaker 1: photos of me that I put up.
42:01
Speaker 3: What do your thoughts around that, either of you?
42:04
Speaker 4: I've never had to contend with the fact that you know,
42:07
Speaker 4: one day my extraordinary good looks are going to fate
42:11
Speaker 4: And how will that cause me to interact with the world?
42:15
Speaker 4: How will that impact me? That has never been my problem,
42:19
Speaker 4: So for me, not really sure. I could say. One
42:24
Speaker 4: thing that pops into my mind is an ex girlfriend.
42:27
Speaker 3: Of mine and.
42:31
Speaker 4: She looked like a nineteen forties like I do you
42:35
Speaker 4: call it starle it?
42:36
Speaker 3: I don't know what the word is.
42:37
Speaker 4: Forgive me if that Let's go with movie staff at
42:41
Speaker 4: nineteen forties movie star, like she just looked like that
42:46
Speaker 4: archetype and she was stunning.
42:50
Speaker 3: For her looks were everything, And she.
42:55
Speaker 4: Was an actor for a period of time and she
42:57
Speaker 4: was doing really well, and she was appearing in like
43:01
Speaker 4: multiple sitcoms, and then you know, she got injured and
43:05
Speaker 4: disappeared for a couple of years, which is the kiss
43:07
Speaker 4: of death at that level.
43:09
Speaker 3: So that that.
43:11
Speaker 4: Caused her to carry a lot of resentment. But everything
43:14
Speaker 4: was about her physical appearance, and you would look at
43:18
Speaker 4: this person on the surface and think, Wow, this person's
43:22
Speaker 4: self obsessed. It's all about her. But then I remember
43:27
Speaker 4: we were talking about an incident that she had so
43:31
Speaker 4: her older sister. She idolized her older sister and her
43:34
Speaker 4: older sisters like one of those rebels and always getting
43:37
Speaker 4: into trouble. But as a kid, you look and gone,
43:39
Speaker 4: my older sister's so cool. You know, she can do anything.
43:43
Speaker 4: And they were in a changing room at one point
43:46
Speaker 4: and her sister looked at her side profile and said,
43:49
Speaker 4: oh god, you know you were so ugly from that angle.
43:54
Speaker 4: My god, your side profile is ugly. And that thing
44:00
Speaker 4: stuck with her for the rest of her life. It
44:03
Speaker 4: injured her so deeply and she's talking about this and
44:07
Speaker 4: she's getting worked up, and like, I don't know if
44:09
Speaker 4: she's superficial or I don't know if she never realized Okay,
44:16
Speaker 4: that was a comment that was hurtful, and she spent
44:20
Speaker 4: her whole life trying to develop a strong suit to
44:22
Speaker 4: work around that. To tell you the truth, the way
44:25
Speaker 4: her sister said it, and as directly as she said it,
44:30
Speaker 4: I think there's even a chance that her sister was
44:33
Speaker 4: using that as sarcasm, Like her sister was probably looking
44:36
Speaker 4: at her and going, Wow, she's gorgeous.
44:39
Speaker 3: God, you're ugly.
44:40
Speaker 4: But given her age and that was her sister, she
44:44
Speaker 4: probably didn't take it that way and it caused damage.
44:49
Speaker 4: So yeah, I wonder in any case, because I'm always wondering, Okay,
44:54
Speaker 4: not what is somebody doing, but why, like where does
44:58
Speaker 4: that come from? But if that becomes my whole identity,
45:01
Speaker 4: what happens when that does fade?
45:04
Speaker 3: Yeah?
45:05
Speaker 4: Ok, because I just talk about vulnerability. I know that
45:10
Speaker 4: earlier in my life I didn't feel I looked like
45:12
Speaker 4: everybody else. I knew I didn't look like everybody else
45:16
Speaker 4: because of how people.
45:17
Speaker 3: Reacted to me when they saw me.
45:19
Speaker 4: It was like, oh, okay, all right, this kid's different.
45:22
Speaker 4: I got to regain composure, and it wasn't just kids,
45:25
Speaker 4: it was adults. And then when I got to a
45:28
Speaker 4: point where it's like, oh, I feel like I feel
45:30
Speaker 4: like I look normal. I just wanted to look normal.
45:35
Speaker 4: And I think if something happened where I no longer
45:40
Speaker 4: look normal, I believe it would affect me because it
45:44
Speaker 4: would bring back all of that pain from when I
45:48
Speaker 4: didn't look normal and people weren't very kind about that.
45:52
Speaker 4: So I think the short answer is, if that becomes
45:58
Speaker 4: your identity and that's a point of massive insecurity, it
46:02
Speaker 4: could be brutal.
46:03
Speaker 1: He says the short answer after a seven minute monologue. Tiff, No,
46:08
Speaker 1: we love your monologues. TIF you, what do you think
46:12
Speaker 1: about this?
46:13
Speaker 3: I don't know this. I guess it's always been around,
46:16
Speaker 3: but just it's interesting.
46:18
Speaker 2: I caught up with a friend recently and their two
46:21
Speaker 2: daughters were with us, and one of them ends up
46:23
Speaker 2: eleven years old, flipping through her phone showing me and
46:26
Speaker 2: it was just selfie after selfie after selfie in the mirror,
46:30
Speaker 2: in the mirror, and I thought about it, like, isn't
46:32
Speaker 2: it interesting These kids, they're really young and they're just
46:37
Speaker 2: taking photos of themselves, like just hundreds the photos are
46:42
Speaker 2: standing in the mirror looking at the same thing weirdly,
46:46
Speaker 2: usually with the phone in front of their face, which
46:48
Speaker 2: is even more curious. But then I think about, you know,
46:51
Speaker 2: when I was first in fitness and I used to
46:53
Speaker 2: put a lot of selfies up, but also I never
46:57
Speaker 2: felt like I looked like I'd put self like when
47:00
Speaker 2: I had a ripping six pack and I'd put photos
47:04
Speaker 2: of that ripping six pack up, and if people saw
47:06
Speaker 2: them in the next day and we're like, show me
47:08
Speaker 2: your abs, so I'd be like, fucking no, Like I
47:10
Speaker 2: don't look like that as well. So there's it's I'm curious,
47:15
Speaker 2: what is what drives humans to react in this way
47:20
Speaker 2: about the vision of ourself and also how connected is
47:23
Speaker 2: it really to the reality of how we feel and
47:27
Speaker 2: what we believe is us and are those two things
47:30
Speaker 2: connected Now it's a little bit like thinking about body
47:33
Speaker 2: image and eating disorders. They're not always connected to the
47:39
Speaker 2: visual aspect. There's deeper behavioral drivers that make people do
47:44
Speaker 2: those behaviors.
47:46
Speaker 1: I think also the real world reality is that away
47:50
Speaker 1: from this philosophical behind the micro microphone conversation about you know,
47:56
Speaker 1: you're more than a body, and we love you, and
47:58
Speaker 1: you know which is all true? You know who am
48:00
Speaker 1: I beyond that? And emotionally and spiritually and mentally and
48:04
Speaker 1: sociologically and da da dah. You know I'm But out
48:08
Speaker 1: in the world, people are rewarded for beauty, aren't they.
48:11
Speaker 1: If you're beautiful, life's easier in many ways, anyway, like
48:16
Speaker 1: more doors open if you're a six foot three guy
48:19
Speaker 1: and you're jacked. And you'll ask Chris Hemsworth how hard
48:22
Speaker 1: life is. Not that he doesn't work hard, not that
48:25
Speaker 1: he's not talented, But if I walk down the street
48:28
Speaker 1: with that motherfucker, I look like Shrek. You know, it's
48:32
Speaker 1: like he's good on him. But you know, there's an
48:36
Speaker 1: advantage when you're pretty or when you're handsome more. And
48:39
Speaker 1: of course that's not to say that all of these
48:41
Speaker 1: people don't work hard or don't deserve it. But you know,
48:45
Speaker 1: the idea of all of what we're talking about is,
48:50
Speaker 1: I think it's true. I think we're much more than
48:52
Speaker 1: just an appearance. But having said that, you're certainly rewarded
48:57
Speaker 1: if you look a certain way in the real world.
49:02
Speaker 1: For one of better term. Beyond these conceptual conversations, on podcasts,
49:07
Speaker 1: you know, and it's I think.
49:08
Speaker 3: That's where kids learn this. They're like, well, you know
49:12
Speaker 3: who do they look up to? Who are the people
49:16
Speaker 3: that they're youngsters? Listen to me?
49:18
Speaker 1: Fuck, I sound old but idolizing. You know, they're super pretty,
49:22
Speaker 1: they're super handsome, they're super talented, they're super popular, they're
49:25
Speaker 1: super jacked, they're all these things. You know, not everyone,
49:29
Speaker 1: of course, but the majority. I was talking to a
49:33
Speaker 1: couple that I know, and the wife was talking to
49:36
Speaker 1: me about their eleven year old and she said to me,
49:38
Speaker 1: do you know what she spends all her money on?
49:41
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, I don't know, video games, da da da,
49:45
Speaker 1: And she goes make up.
49:48
Speaker 3: All her money goes on makeup. She's eleven.
49:52
Speaker 5: I go, she goes, oh yeah, like from nine.
49:55
Speaker 1: To ten, they're wearing makeup and they're watching how to
49:59
Speaker 1: put on make up videos and they've got all these
50:02
Speaker 1: influencer makeup influencers that they follow and they're ten. I'm like, God,
50:07
Speaker 1: I'm so out of touch. I don't know anything. What
50:12
Speaker 1: were you spending your money on when you were eleven?
50:15
Speaker 2: Not make up?
50:19
Speaker 3: Bobby?
50:19
Speaker 1: How do people connect with you? How do they find you?
50:22
Speaker 1: And listen to you and become part of the Bobby
50:26
Speaker 1: Capucco Experience.
50:29
Speaker 4: The Bobby Capuccio Experience. Okay, yes, I think I think
50:34
Speaker 4: that's that's a lot to sign up for. But you
50:36
Speaker 4: could find me at LinkedIn. You could find me at
50:39
Speaker 4: Robert Capuccio dot com, the self help Antido dot.
50:43
Speaker 1: Com, Perfect and Tiffany and Cook Roll with the Punches
50:48
Speaker 1: and Tiffcook dot Com and Sculpture.
50:51
Speaker 2: Around the Shadows of typ wherever I can Bunny.
50:55
Speaker 1: Just like, just like the ninja that she is, will
50:59
Speaker 1: say goodbe I fear of course. Thanks Bobby, thanks Tip,
51:02
Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, Thank you everyone,