Latest / CRYPTO 101 / Ep. 760 Aerodrome & Velodrome MERGE — What Happens to the AERO Token Now?

Transcript

Ep. 760 Aerodrome & Velodrome MERGE — What Happens to the AERO Token Now? · CRYPTO 101

• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, everyone, welcome back to the Crypto 101 podcast.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: We hope everyone has had a fantastic morning or evening because no matter where you are in the world, you're certainly in the right place here today.
• 0:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because today we have a very special guest, a familiar face that you've probably heard us either talk about or you've seen them on here before.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are joined by Alex Cutler.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's the CEO of Dromo's Labs.
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very familiar face if you know the names
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Alex, good to have you and welcome back.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: You so much for having me.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exciting time to come back and chat again.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the perfect time to have you come back and chat and we'll dive into it today.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the big things that we're going to be really talking about and walking through is this big upgrade that's happening in regards to erodrome and velodrome and
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: everything around that space.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also want to talk about the state of the market.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the big things that I've noticed and we were chatting it up about before this is that aerodrome has been crushing it when it comes to the tokenized space.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tokenized stock, tokenized market share, the volumes.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It has been ridiculous.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to talk about the general state of the market, everyone.
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about really kind of the increase in what we've seen from a tokenized stance.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we're going to talk about these big upgrades and what it means and how all of this relates to not only error-drome but base and Ethereum as well.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Alex, catches up to date.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to hear what you've been up to.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You guys have been very, very busy at work as we've already learned a little bit about, but catches up on what has happened since
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so it's been a really, really incredible year for us, you know, last November, we held a event in New York and we shared that we were going to be.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: launching a major upgrade of our DEX operating system, our third version and metadata so three, and that Velodrome and Aerodrome we're going to come together into a single exchange that is designed to be like the definitive trading liquidity layer of Ethereum.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that would mean, right, not just that we're upgrading the protocol, that we're bringing these two projects together, unifying them under a single token, but it's going to mean an expansion.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think as of, you know, this podcast going out, Arrow will be live now across seven chains.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, that includes the chains we service today and base and
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Opie mainnet, but expanding outwards to a theory and mainnet, the home of DeFi, Robinhood, Arbitrum, etc.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a moment, right?
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think not just like a year in the making, but really four years in the making, where we are we are taking our shot to become kind of the definitive on-chain exchange in this era of tokenization, which is super exciting.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, before we even get into some of that, where did this idea in this thought process come from?
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because prior to this, aerodrome was really just the leading and one of the most prominent decentralized exchanges when it came to base, a Velodrome for optimism, where did this idea come from to, you know, expand so much?
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think when we looked at things, right?
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously from the very beginning, we've been making a bet.
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've been making a bet that the biggest prize in crypto to kind of sure is on-chain spot exchange.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And...
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've got some really good numbers of homelessness on change democratic changes throw off more value than almost any other vertical of the on chain economy other than stablecoins.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in 2025 they did about $5 billion in fees, right?
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is more than change did, that is more than perpasted, that is more than lending them.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've always known that this is not just like a critical layer of the on chain economy, but one of the most valuable.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, we started out four years ago, because we're a team that did not raise any money, we did not sell any tokens, so we had to kind of slowly work our way up, becoming the dominant exchange on O.K.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they went base launch.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had the opportunity to launch Aero Drum there.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Aero Drum quickly became the dominant exchange on base.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, the base was probably the single most important change to win of the last cycles.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was a very competitive moment.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what we looked at was, well,
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: We know spot a change is the biggest opportunity in DFI.
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: We know right now we're only servicing, you know, about 15, 17% of the EVM market for global volumes.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we know that we have a right to win, right?
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because anywhere we do compete, you know, we win 60, 70% of the on-chain market share.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we looked at this and we said this is a right to win,
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's also a chance for us to take like a year, several years worth of learning since we launched our last version incorporate that into a major upgrade and now expand across EVM and we very much, you know, we want to be the venue.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: in which in this era of tokenization, right, all these real world assets come in issue on our rails.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: That traders increasingly, which will represent not just like retail, but institutions, are using our rails.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to be everywhere.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: We want to connect all that liquidity together.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we want to take the fight for market share, the main net Ethereum, to arbitrum, to Robinhood, etc.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are these other chains that you're going to be expanding to?
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, right now, primarily the two major chains that we serve as our course base and optimism made that across both Belgium and Air Jam, what we are adding is Ethereum made that, which of course is still the single largest.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: network in terms of deaths volume, TVL, all the sort of major metrics we're adding arbitrum, we're adding Robinhood chain, which is obviously been growing very quickly, and then we will continue to service ink, which is Kraken's chain, and we also recently launched on circles arc.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we think this represents, you know, going from about like 17% of the market that we were servicing.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is like a four-axing of our total addressable market.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it is a major opportunity for us to grow our market share.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the stats that I do think is really impressive because, you know, we do want to be number one across every metric is that.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even though we only serve 17% of the Dressel market right now, we do more revenue than any other spot exchange does today while servicing basically a fraction of the market.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we think we have an opportunity, right, to internalize even more value to our system redistributed and win share.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess why is that how are you guys able to have more revenue, but maybe let, like, despite maybe like less volume or whatever it may be from another competitor?
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this goes back to a core aspect of how we designed our system from the very beginning.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So one of our core principles is that maximum value distribution is the only true mode in divine.
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that means that you can't have intermediaries.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to have kind of platform fees.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to sort of recreate the traditional system.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in our system basically,
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: We take all the value, all the productive value of the decks, trading fees, launch payments, liquidity payments, multiple revenue streams.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: We internalize all of that and we give it to people who stake our token.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: The people who stake our token are then the folks who sort of issue new tokens to liquidity providers to sort of incentivize and grow the network.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that allows us to
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: and it also allows us to align the incentives of all three parties.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because traders just want the best execution.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: What gives us the best execution, the deepest liquidity, what creates the deepest liquidity, rewarding the maximum with a token that represents more than just trading fees, and thus you get more revenue to the token, and it becomes this like growth flywheel.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's how we've done that.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's exciting seeing all of this.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to ask there was one name there that has kind of exploded onto the scene that I haven't heard you mention Robin Hood chain right and you can on the block it's kind of taken crypto by storm.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's cooling off now, right?
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that happens with a lot of things.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It comes in, it's big, it's popular, it explodes, and then it kind of comes to more of a normal place.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But is there any interest in expanding over to there?
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's one of the seven.
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we are, yeah, I mean, as of this, we are live on Robin Hood Chang, you know.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that's why we, you know, in this expansion, we are covering now.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going from covering a fraction of EVM to most of EVM.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: The fill some room to grow, right?
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a massive, I think, close to four acting of the market that we service today.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, that feels like it covers most of what's relevant when it comes to Ethereum.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously there's some other key players outside of there.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that makes sense, right?
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Cover, cover, what is the most relevant in the current state of crypto, and it seems like you guys are attacking that first?
• 10:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: On, oh, go ahead, sorry.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I was just saying yes, for sure.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I think it's a good approach.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, one of the things that stuck out to me here is seeing how you guys have attacked the tokenization side of things.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's almost like a little bit of an ongoing joke over here.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or like, oh, every guest that comes on, it's going to be tokenization this, tokenization that.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it just feels like that's what everyone's talking about.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: However, as we have seen over the last like, I would say one, two, maybe three years or so now,
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's been a big reason why it's been such a talking point.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you've seen it become a relevant.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, listen, you're seeing like, you know, you're seeing JP Morgan talk about it.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're seeing BlackRock talk about it.
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're seeing City Bank talk about it.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, we've been talking about it for every over here.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when it comes to aerodrome, I saw two statistics.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to kind of pick your brain about them.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, so that aerodrome handled over 57% of tokenized stock volume across Ethereum and its layer
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: right?
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty impressive saying that you guys add over half of all tokenized stock volume across not only just the Ethereum A-net, but the layer twos as well.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, that's quick.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Walk me through that because when I read that at first, I was like, wait, like is this real?
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because you kind of think like, oh, well, maybe someone would be over there and there and it would be a little bit more divided.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: But for
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: How did you guys go about this?
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess, what does that infrastructure look like?
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like if someone is listening to this and saying, oh, I didn't know I could trade tokenized stocks.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know that there was such good liquidity for that on error drum.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: What can they expect and kind of how can they do that?
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like, what does that look like?
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's funny here and you describe it as shocking, right?
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because we've had a few of these moments, I think, in our in our history, we are almost never first to market.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I spent six years at Apple and this is something that they would really drill into, right, that it is not critical and it'd be first to market.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: The most important thing you can do is be best to market.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously we weren't first to market with the debt and we were not first to market in expanding to ecosystems like optimism and business, right?
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were taking on billion dollar incumbents and we were just, you know, a handful of anons who had met in a discord.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we did have the best product, a product that, you know, I think if you distill its core in its competitive value proposition, it is this next to them value redistribution.
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably rewarding liquidity providers, it's only rewarding those who state the token.
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was enough for us with how the benefits of VCs are raising to win dominant market share on these chains.
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then once we had it, some other crazy things started happening.
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have worked, of course, very closely with the base team since we launched and we help them bring to market their Bitcoin product, right, in CBBTC.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think in H1 of this year, we did more Bitcoin volume on chain than every other Ducks combined.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Bitcoin is the
• 14:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: that, you know, exists on chain.
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so this was another one of those like mind popping things.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're only on one chain and yet because we can build this deep liquidity that is very differentiated because we are the platform of choice in an amazing issuer and in coinbase.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were able to become the dominant Bitcoin exchange.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we've got another example here, right,
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Another one of these critical verticals that will grow very quickly on chain is tokenized.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: currencies and effects pairs on chain, but we have had many periods, and I believe in Q2, or maybe it's Q3, I can't, I'm getting it all mixed up, but again, we were the number one FX venue on chain, primarily in facilitating the deepest liquidity on ERC, USTC.
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, when we started to work with Coinbase to bring their tokenized stock product,
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: on chain.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We felt very confident even though, you know, we were not first to market here, Coinbase was not first to market, that they had one of the best versions of the tokenized stock so far.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you're not familiar, listeners are not familiar.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: These are the actual one-to-one
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: splits and dividends.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a really compelling plan that is not a debt ramp or it's not a derivative.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's some some the other versions we've seen and we know that we have the best liquidity infrastructure.
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we can create enough depth in these markets provide the best execution and as long as you provide the best execution and an asset people want to trade.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: The flows will come.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yes, we went from like.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, 5% of the market to the dominant player on it in just a matter of months.
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it is still shocking, but this is the story of what we have done at every step of the journey.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I will say this is one area, I say this a lot, but I think focus is a moat.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we stay very focused on, we're very decent driven.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: the markets that we think will be most important and will be the biggest share of how the on-chain economy will grow.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's why I think maybe we've caught some folks sleeping at times on winning dominant share of the most important verticals versus like running around trying to compete with launch pads or things like that.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was about to bring that up.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say, I would have expected more of a fight.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the thing that shocked me.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you're right.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think some other platforms or other groups probably were just caught sleeping or focused on other things that they thought were a quick, I don't know.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to call it a fad, but these quick hits, right?
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You get these quick kind of dope, I mean, hits and being like, oh, well, we have that, too.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we have this and that.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, all right, well, what actually matters as a significant category for the long term,
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you guys have really cemented that, you know, another one of the things, another one of the things that stood out was the volumes with this, too, when it came to the Coinbase tokenized stock product, it just passed to not just, but you know, a little bit of it passed $2 billion in trading volume on era drum.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: the part that was interesting because we're talking about oh this is just happened in a couple of months time the first one billion dollars for everyone's perspective here took about a month to eat the first billion dollars in trading volume the second billion dollars took half the time I think there's about two weeks
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, you guys are growing this thing twice as fast here for the second billion dollars.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's clearly a demand for it.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does that present any kind of struggles?
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do you guys look at that?
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're saying, okay, well, we just doubled in half the time.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do you kind of look at that moving forward?
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you thinking, oh, we should do new products?
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should tweak things, we should tweak scalability.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what kind of goes into that process seeing it start to take off the way it is?
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: The thing that we look at is that, you know, that first even billion was maybe with, you know, somewhere between five and 10 assets, you're right, it was with a very small set of tokenized stocks.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think what we just looked at, seeing the initial success of this, and I think what, of course, Coinbase, and based looked at, seeing the initial success of this is,
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need to move faster, right?
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need to bring more stocks.
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need to run the same playbook on them, bring deeper and deeper liquidity to them.
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Such that this very much becomes a venue in which you can participate in the act of market making on these stocks in any various combinations, where you can trade any of them, fast, cheap, real time, 217.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the effect is really compounding, right, because if you think about what we're trying to do in the most medicines, when we're building on chain is to build the world's most vibrant market that is ever existed where you can trade everything from the longest tail of digital assets to bleachips, to currencies, to tokenize stocks from now increasingly over the world,
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're going to pair those, you want to pair them against maybe something like you want to settle in the local currency tied to that equity and things like that.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the challenge really has just been, you know, I guess at times like can we go even faster, can we bring more of these on chain.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: But once we do, you know, people come and make the markets, traders coming, do execution.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we saw in the first week in moments on data that was suggesting that the execution on some of these stocks was better than like interactive brokers.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And interactive brokers is how most of the world has an opportunity to like access
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think we're increasingly thinking about, you know, we're going to be going after and disrupting, you know, the margins of, you know, these major legacy institutions that take 70% margins to deliver a subpar product compared to what we can do on chain.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: We just distill the whole business into code, right.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you guys think that you necessarily have to go and compete with them because that would be the case of them making their own products and wanting to compete or do you see some of them doing something similar to what Coinbase did where they kind of come to you and they say, hey, help us with these things because that is it's two very different scenarios right?
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: If they're going to say, hey, we'll build this ourselves, we're going to compete.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, air drum, how you guys do cool stuff, but we're going to do it in house, whereas it's completely different one if they start looking to, hey, now you guys already do this pretty good.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It makes more sense to kind of go through you.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is there an easy answer to that question?
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it both, what do you think?
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think, um,
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: in like, you know, the general traditional finance world, right?
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have all these institutions, all of these businesses, and there's always a degree of like overlapping, you know, cooperation, moments and collaboration moments, even when other aspects of these institutions and businesses,
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: are competing against one another.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I expected to be like that, right?
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're obviously working with some of the biggest institutions in the world to help them tokenize assets come on chain and meaning for ways and things like that.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think there will be a lot of collaboration.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think on the other hand though, I thought it was so interesting that it was right around the time that Tokenite, Coinbase Tokenite stocks were about to launch, that Nasdaq came out and they said, hey, you know what?
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get that 24-hour trading going real soon here, like the pressures on now for them to compete with us.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's going to be very difficult for any large, heavy traditional institution.
• 22:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Think about all the employees, think about the offices, think about the fees they have to charge.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: The margins they have to charge to support all of that.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Think about how slow they are, think about it's not
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be very difficult for anybody with a massive margin to compete with these hyper-efficient on-chain firms, right?
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the classic Jeff Bezos line of your margin is our opportunity.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is like what on-chain systems we're built to do is to remove all the intermediaries turn it into code.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, I think they're going to have trouble competing.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have now like the, you know, CME of the on-chain world in hyper-liquid.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think yet we have like the on-chain NYSE and so I think that's the next big Lego and I think exchanges like ours can provide that in a way that the traditional world cannot.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean going back to what Nasdaq announced, they almost had no choice, right?
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you look at the market share that is being taken, again, we just talked about some of the numbers, from not only what you're doing or hyper-liquid's doing are different on-chain counterparts,
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: the market share in the market demand is clearly there and I think that they're looking out and saying, hey, we don't have a choice anymore.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We got to kind of do this because if not, there will continue to be this, this bleed in market share away from us because there's the demand for it.
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: People want it.
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: We saw it in some of like,
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: the geopolitical conflicts or macroeconomic events that we've seen write something happens over the weekend and people want to be able to trade it.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: They want to be able to have exposure to it.
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: They want to be able to manage risk.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so the only way that they could do that is by going to the crypto markets, going to the decentralized markets.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And people originally did that with cryptocurrency.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now some of, you know,
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now what we've seen is that with tokenized stocks, you can actually still have exposure to the, to the, to the triad-fi side as well.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it goes to show how far crypto's come to where they're looking at this and saying, you know, we really don't have much of a choice anymore.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think hyperlick would prove, right?
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: That, um,
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: people want 21st-7 markets and they want the ability to speculate on the price of assets, you know, when traditional markets are closed, right?
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we did see many examples right on hyper-liquid of, you know, after hours when the markets shut down traditional markets and so it is announcing earnings, you know, hyper-liquid is going to be the place that people are
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but one thing I think that is interesting.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think probably a bit under appreciated is that a derivatives exchange like a hyper liquid or CME right it has to derive from something and so.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we know that there is like product market fit for people like speculating trading basically, you know, on the price of like a real world asset on hyper liquid after market, you can't have to price is going to they need an Oracle they need to point at the true asset and somewhere.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is where on-chains markets come in, you know, whereby it is not just you betting on a derivative, which you can't have true price discovery on after markets.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can have some degree of divergence, but the book has to be self-referential to a degree.
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: on ChainSpartMarkSpotMarkets I think can increasingly become the venue by which on like price discovery on these assets actually happens.
• 26:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we've already seen this right when there have been like after hours earnings events that you see like NVIDIA and Apple
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: on error-drown trading and like massive volumes in size.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we could very much see a world whereby not only are like on-chain derivative platforms now plugging into the deep liquidity and spot pools for those after hour oracles, but now these are the pools also that major like institutions when Bloomberg is talking about what's happening on the price of an asset and after markets they're not quoting
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: the traditional app of markets, they're quoting these deep lead-liquid on-chain markets, you know, because the assets are real, because the market participants are real, because there's real liquidity depth, and that is where price discovery is now happening.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is wildly exciting, especially for somebody in the spot market business.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: that it is, that it is and man it's been awesome to see this evolve into what it is.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously we still think that there's a lot more potential out there and I think you would probably agree with that and say when we're looking at how big this can get it still feels as if it's in the early innings.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: These are trillion dollar markets, right?
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we are in the earliest of innings and all that matters is that we have a better product.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think what is so clear now in these early innings is we have a better product on chain.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, coming back to the upgrade here, I want to make sure that we cover everything on that front.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what else is happening?
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because at the time of people watching this, it's going to be live and it's going to be out there.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you guys are a fan of aerodrome, Velodrome, if you've used either of those before, and if you guys have been following what drumless labs has been doing and all of their work, this is going to be a pretty cool big,
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: upgrade for a lot of you users out there so we have the merger right between aridrome and velodrome um i believe there's also slipstream v3 and uh then there's the more networks but is there anything else and feel free to elaborate on any of those i want
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's helpful.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there is so much that is me.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we launched Medvedex owed to which is our second Dex operating system over two years ago.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we believe that that Medvedex owed to was still the most advanced Dex operating system on the market.
• 29:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we can point to the dominant share that it takes in the
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: any ecosystem that it can peeps in, you know, as proof of that.
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we, you know, never are content with where we are at.
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: We wanted to like advance that lead even further.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in Metadexo 3, the OS that powers the all-new era that just went live, there is so much that is new that is like difficult to sometimes even hit it all, but you know, I'll try to hit some main points.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: One is that the hard of any exchanges, of course, the automated market maker at the core.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we've upgraded that in slipstream V3.
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the way to think about what is new in slipstream V3 is that we have made it far more intelligent.
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it can price a trade in a very dynamic way as it happens and so that means of course prices that increase with volatility to ensure you're capturing the amount of
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: value and redistributing it through to the LPs or the system, proportionate with those highly volatile moments.
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That means things like we have a mev tax and mev is like a deeply complicated thing on chain, but you could just think about it as.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: people can pay to skip the line right now, you know, and basically get a trade in, extract the bit of value from a liquidity provider.
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: We now have a MF tax in there that allows us to capture some of that value and redistribute it back to the liquidity provider.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we also have the ability to understand the difference between retail traders and
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: like programmatic or arbitrage trades, all of this combined basically allows us to internalize even more value from the AMM and then redistribute more value right back to stakers and the liquidity providers allowing us to grow the liquidity mode.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: that we already have, right?
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're trying to find ways to pay liquidity providers more in a moment when competing platforms are actually having to cut back how much they can reward liquidity providers.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we want to grow our greatest strength, I think, in this moment.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Another big one is
• 31:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: use this sort of fractured landscape of chains over the last two years.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is us trying to solve a critical problem, which is that you can just find a token on any chain and swap.
• 31:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is the entire process, right?
• 31:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: You go to arrow.com or arrow.xYZ.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You might only have tokens on Ethereum main that you want to get one on base.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You swap.
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We take care of everything on the backend.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to worry about gas and the destination chain.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to worry about liquidity because we're going to route it through our own pools.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're doing this uniquely with no off-chain solvers or intermediaries in the mix.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the biggest one, the thing I think we're most excited about is something that is an entirely new primitive that we built into the new model and it's called predictive allocation.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the way to think about predictive allocation is that it combines the truth finding and asymmetric upside of prediction markets with spot markets.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: for the first time.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it brings these predictive elements.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So here's the way to think about it.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You, as an arrow staker, each week are basically betting on the markets that you think are going to produce the most value, most volume, most fees.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you are allocating capital to those markets.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: That brings liquidity into those markets.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you are more right than everybody else that those markets are productive, you can earn an outsize sort of payout and return on the value of those markets craked.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's make this way more specific, right?
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I know it's heady.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Any new primitive is heady until you kind of internalize it.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say that you want to bet on the productivity of a new video USDC because their earnings are coming up and you know markets are going to be closed so people are going to be trading that significantly.
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: you could go to a prediction market and just bet on they're going to beat or miss.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you're betting on and how come that, right?
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could go to a purpose of change and bet on the price, right, and go long or short on either side of it.
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or of course you could just go buy
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: What predictive allocation allows you to do is actually do none of that, you don't need to bet on the outcome, you don't need to bet on the price and you don't even need to need to hold the underlying and have that exposure.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can just bet on demand for that market.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't matter if they beat or miss as long as people are going to come in and trade it like crazy and you are more right than everybody else at this is a highly productive market you earn an outsize reward and what this does for the system.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: is it now creates a class of people who are speculating on betting on an allocating capital towards markets ahead of demand.
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that allows liquidity now to bootstrap, you know, to grow in depth.
• 35:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: before the trading demand actually comes.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you think about this comparing it to our competitors, which are self-organizing markets, you need that liquidity to sort of create itself.
• 35:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be very difficult for them to compete with liquidity that's always moving ahead of demand, not responding to activity, but like moving ahead of activity.
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: and so it's going to make the system more efficient.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be a really fun new on-chain game because we haven't had many of those before and it's going to enable some really cool stuff.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: listen, I think that it will and one of the things about this is that you guys basically give token holders a way to benefit and there's been a huge push I would say over the last year or so for tokenomics to be more friendly towards token holders.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the cool things about error drum and what you guys do is a buyback, right?
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You guys have other things as well, but
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the things that I like to see.
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, full disclosure here, I don't want to sound like I'm chilling or this is that, but we've had you guys on, we like you guys, I have exposure to you.
• 36:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that is one of the things that I like to see, because it makes the holders feel like they're involved and that they benefit.
• 36:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they kind of get a piece of the pie to it agree.
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you're looking at this,
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're betting that there's going to be growth, whether it's these new products, whether it's the new chains, whether it's the existing stuff, whether it's the tokenized stocks that we've talked about.
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of nice because, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding is that, you know, as these products grow, you know, obviously you guys will earn a portion off of that from fees and stuff, and then a portion of the revenue goes towards buybacks, the buybacks obviously help the tokens appreciate in price.
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's kind of what the general
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the way to think about it is,
• 36:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think one of the reasons hyper liquid has been so successful is that they operated on some very similar first principles as we did right they did not raise capital.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had a very small and agile team and they maximally redistributed value back to the token right I think 97% of hyper liquids revenue goes back to the token in the form of buybacks and that made it not just a compelling product and platform.
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it can be telling token that represented the value capture of hyper liquid in the growth of on chain perps.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our system is very similar.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: We also didn't raise, right, we're very small team, but importantly, from day one 100% of the protocols revenue.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: is redistributed to folks who stake the token.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is a difference in the sense of it's passed through, right versus this is a buyback.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we do actually think that a dollar buyback does not necessarily represent like a dollar value accrue in the same way.
• 38:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, we do research a hundred percent of the value through, so you can think of it about it much like you would think about hyper liquid is this is a token that represents a claim on one hundred percent of the value that network produces and if the network produces less value, you know, obviously you would feel that if the network produces more value, obviously you would feel that and we do have buybacks and things like that on top, which is sort of a stabilizing mechanism that the error drone.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: or now arrow foundation does.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that is the killer mode.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, it makes no sense of five guys in a discord could take on like billion dollar incumbents backed by the biggest names, not just in in crypto, but, you know, some of the major funds out there period in technology and this is how we did not have to move out your distribution by the users of the platform.
• 39:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I couldn't agree with you more there.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, listen, it's all really, really important.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: As we start to round this up, I just want to talk to you about the ecosystem as a whole and kind of what you're seeing out there.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a bumpy past year, right?
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've had our ups, we've had our downs.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the big standouts is that, despite whatever happens with price action, you know, we talked a lot today about the different growth that we have seen, right?
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whether it is tokenization, whether it's volumes, whether it's trading, whether it's new features that you guys
• 39:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh... the growth is there and the demand is there despite whatever kind of happens in price but i guess when it comes to the ecosystem as a whole whether that is a theorium um... the whole theory of ecosystem what are you seeing out there because i think you're positioned in a way that you get to see a lot of things that the general listener doesn't right the general listener over here they probably are interested in crypto they're involved with it um... but they're doing other things right they have families they have jobs they have
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: you're like deeply ingrained in all of this.
• 40:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you see out there?
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you make of it and what stood out to you here recently?
• 40:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really good question.
• 40:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I go back to something, you know, Brian Armstrong said late last year on the Coinbase earnings call, right?
• 40:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: He basically said that Coinbase's bet is that 10% of global GDP comes
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think at the moment he said that it was before this kind of explosion in tokenized real world assets and the first beginnings of these trillion dollar markets coming on chain started to become very real.
• 40:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think people maybe thought that that was a crazy, that was a crazy idea, you know, is Brian just blowing some smoke care.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I will say, in the sort of dark days, the more pullback in the industry, which I think we all feel, we're still a very reflexive asset class.
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It did not feel particularly like Crypto Winter to me.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was, if you went and Crypto Twitter, but I always say this Crypto Twitter is a lagging signal.
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not helpful, it is not informative, do not index off of that.
• 41:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: What I was seeing to your question was increasing amounts of major institutions reaching out to platforms like ours, issuers, like Coinbase, like Robin Hood, like Circle, bringing more of these assets on chain or positioning to.
• 41:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: that I go to conferences now and I'm just as likely to be introduced to a bank as I into like a fellow builder or protocol or like crypto VC.
• 41:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the vibes in those environments, the vibes amongst the people who are going to help to bring these trillion dollar markets on chain are like insanely positive.
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's what I describe they know the product is better now and in fact if anything they're sweating because they know if they don't come in play they're going to get disrupted and so I think what I what I am seeing now is like it is inevitable that like Brian's prediction comes true.
• 42:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: that increasingly like on-chain venues are where folks trade everything from currencies to tokenize equities to interesting new digital assets that people all over the world now get to participate with these things in ways that they have not in traditional systems that we build entirely new
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that is the main signal, that is the main thing I'm seeing, and that allows you to like, I said at the beginning, create a lot of focus on what you want to be a part of, because in a world where a 10% of global GDP is on chain, there is a fun more volume, there's way more than $5 billion of fees being generated on AMM's on chain.
• 43:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to be the venue where all this stuff happens, that is why we put so much work into this new product that we just launched and I think, you know, for like your listeners out there, hopefully that helps to filter some of the signal from the noise.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think we're moving from like, like, highly speculative, more long tail.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: frankly, you know, I sometimes get a bit cynical about so many of the assets we've issued and so much of the stuff that people try to like show to get other people involved in into something a bit more sophisticated, but I think that is good.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think, you know, you need to begin to evaluate on chain assets in the way you would evaluate any other type of asset.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if on chain assets do actually represent the growth of on chain activity and you believe that we will eat the world, then there is plenty of opportunities yet, you know, to participate in that be rewarded by the head and I think that is super exciting.
• 44:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is super interesting that we basically are moving from this stage where we were we were building a lot of speculative and two degree we still are building a lot of speculative products but now we're building very practical products saying hey here's what the demand could be and now it's more of here's what the demand already is and how can we scale to the existing demand that's there and
• 44:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, you know, as someone who's in this space, it's easy to kind of always keep your eye on the ball and not really kind of like look down and examine your surroundings, but we kind of are in one of those scenarios right now where we're always talking about this is what it could be this is how it could be this is how we can use this stuff.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now we're at the stage of the market where you know all these traditional financial players are coming to us and they're saying hey, no, no, no, here's what the practical application is, you know.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: let's do this thing.
• 45:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not really theoretical anymore.
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's it really is practical and I think that that gives it more validity.
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that makes it safer.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that makes it more interesting.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree and I think the critical thing is.
• 45:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: The trajectory of this industry was yeah, we did build a lot of real stuff.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And some of it was was amazing projects.
• 45:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we often then attach those to like tokens and assets that looked like.
• 45:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the worst version of an asset anywhere in the world, you know, these were fundamentally tokens with no utility, no value of cruel primarily used right to enrich, you know, teams and insiders and then once they got rich, the products would die and things like that.
• 46:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're moving towards a state whereby not only are the products better and things that, by the way, you cannot build in traditional systems because the technology is just different, it enables us to do things like, you know, our team takes no direct cut of anything we have to use the platform, use the token like anybody else.
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do that in a traditional business.
• 46:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we can build entirely new stuff.
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can have the assets be more compelling.
• 46:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: not worse than and not just like the same as like traditional assets, but more compelling.
• 46:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we can do that in a moment where I think it is a fair bet that we eat so much more of these trillion dollar markets and anybody from anywhere can now be a part of the growth of this.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is super exciting.
• 47:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is, too.
• 47:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Alex, we appreciate your time.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be a really awesome upgrade.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you guys have not checked it out already, make sure that you go check them out.
• 47:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Alex, if people want to follow what you're doing, what drummers and aerodrome and Velodrome and everyone's doing, where can they find you all at?
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on Twitter we're at arrow xyz and arrow dot xyz if you want to find the the app.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for me personally on on Twitter or x, I guess I can't kick that particular half of it.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm at Wageme Alexander.
• 47:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect, it's all Alex.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 47:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone this upgrade is going to be live by the time that you are listening to this podcast.
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you check them out or excited for all of you to see it.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And once again, Alex, thank you for joining us.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll have to have you back on once again because we know that there are more updates on the way.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, thanks for having me.