Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Eight's Sacred Directness | When God Redeems Your Strength with Alli Patterson

Transcript

The Eight's Sacred Directness | When God Redeems Your Strength with Alli Patterson · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this month I have loved getting to dive deep in the Enneagram 8 world.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about strength, we've talked about the Enneagram 8 wound, an invitation towards tenderness.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited today to have another favorite come back and share with you.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that is Allie Patterson.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't met Allie before, she is a teaching pastor at Crossroads Church in Cincinnati.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: She's a seminary-trained Bible teacher.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Woo-woo, way to go.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she's the author of Spirit Lid Bible Study.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And as I mentioned before, she's an Enneagram mate.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why she's here today.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because last time we got to talk about the need for community and a deeper understanding about who you are and who you need at your wholehearted table.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: We started chatting about Enneagram.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I've got to have her back.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're going deeper.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it was it was so fun last time.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to the conversation for sure.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because Ali, I think you've allowed Enneagram to help guide your day-to-day, whether it's relationships, your work in the church, maybe even in your teaching, I'm guessing.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it it more informs how I approach teaching rather than maybe thinking about what I'm saying.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I I actually put off for many years, I would say after Enneagram came to be a known thing.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I really put off, I was sort of like, I don't need to do this.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've done a lot of personality inventories.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like sometimes there's helpful insights.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a hater.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't feel any particular need to do it.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: But but yeah, so many other people that were in my ecosystem and even having spiritual conversations were referencing Enneagram that I finally, as a teacher who wants to be, I like it's very important to be in the stream of what people are using for their spiritual development and their self-understanding.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, okay, there's no need to actively resist this.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's jump in, let's see what this is about.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I finally took it, but way later than most other people were talking about their Enneagram types.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember I took like an abbreviated version, maybe a year or so before I took the whole thing, that just said, you might be this or you might be this.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a clue before I took the whole thing.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it's been interesting because it has opened up good conversations, not to follow a number or the bullet points around a number over a cliff, but just to ask God some questions about um how he's made us to be a body and what our different viewpoints are and what we bring into conversations and on teams and what are really what we're motivated by when we're talking about growing spiritually.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so it has been a helpful addition, I'll say.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have learned a lot about not just the people that I lead, but also our family took it as a family.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I had taken it, I thought, oh, this will be fun.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: This will be really interesting.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And boy, did it explain a lot about our family culture.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: It really gave the kids some language for things that they had a hard time expressing and gave my husband and I an awareness of like what our types are like when they're combined in a home and why we bend a certain way toward the culture in our home.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, just again, for me, the power of it is really giving language to things that we've got some clues about, but it's very helpful language for us to use and even in a spiritual growth context, because we all approach faith and our understanding of God and our perspectives on the Bible in all different ways.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Remind me, what's your husband's type?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's a one.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's a one.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So eights and ones, having a very clear idea of what's the right way, can sometimes collide.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting because we met young.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we navigated a lot of the, we navigated a lot of how we relate to each other before we really had much of a clue.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, in many ways, I actually think that was good and helpful.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because we learned and grew together before we like even probably fully developed our individual tendencies.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the most interesting thing in our home with an eight and a one, we I would say we're both strong, but we actually do not tend to personally clash a lot.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: We we uh we always joke because we're like, even if we weren't married and didn't love each other, we would live together well.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we just vibe, we have a similar um way of being.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we don't tend to clash a lot, um, but we are both strong in nature.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And my I think where we have had the best insight in our home is that we both have an intensity that can be a lot for the kids.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to remember how to rest, how to make room for messes, how to give grace, like how to soften the edges of our home and family culture.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: We have no problem with like making things happen, you know?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, keeping the schedule and the family running and people where they need to go and go over.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I will say that is huge.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's been very helpful, I'm sure.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um super duper helpful.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if anything, we have had to learn over time.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Soft.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Soft is good, soft is better.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes rest is so deeply embedded in our faith that we have to fight for rest as an eight-one combo.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you know, lots of lots of tendencies that go a little intense that we have to balance with our understanding of the fullness of life that God has created us for is not an eight-one combo.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's more to that's why we have nine types.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for giving us that personal insight.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that might resonate with different combos who experience that intensity and the reminder that just because husband and wife might be weird wired that way, kids might look very different.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: We have it in our home where the kids and I are very assertive, but my husband's the withdrawn type.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so finding that balance, finding language around it has been so helpful and becoming more invitational and critical and frustrated about those differences that can demonstrate in simple things like family dinners and all of that.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's absolutely very helpful.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And just to again, the kids feel more licensed, things become slightly less personal, and the kids actually feel more licensed to say, Hey, that's what this feels like.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can we make room for some other things too?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been helpful.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Good, good.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's so rich.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I want to chat from a biblical standpoint or about a biblical perspective from an Enneagram A and a Bible teacher because this all teaching begins with our own personal relationship with something.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And for you, it's the word of God.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just curious, sharing from your perspective to either help a fellow eight or someone who loves an eight.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: How has it been getting into the word?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: What's your relationship been like with study?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Has it been easy?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Has there been complication?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about the journey.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I am a learner at heart, and I'm a curious open learner, which is really interesting for an eight.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: That is not always the case.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say probably with an eight, but I mentioned that I took the abbreviated version of the Enneagram like a year or two before I took the full thing, and it gave me a little pie chart of what I might be.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I have some five tendencies.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, from a learn from a learning standpoint.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I am a natural learner.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I go toward the Bible with a learning mindset.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there is an openness about that from the get-go.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious, I'm open.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I notice a strength of my eight tendencies because it took me a long time to realize that not everyone reads scripture and sees bullet points.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nope.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I do.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the combo of my eights like to move towards certainty.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And also I'm a learner-teacher type who's looking for uh application, um understanding, things like that as I'm reading.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: It took me a while to understand that I do have a gift of seeing things that you can extract pretty clearly from scriptures and moving in the direction of something you could offer someone else, something you could teach, something you can understand.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there's such a goodness and a blessing in that, especially given what I do.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I write, I speak, I teach, that's necessary.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: As a matter of fact, I would say it would be very difficult to do those things if you didn't move in that direction at some point.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the other piece of it though, that came in, I think with um just God maturing me and also having some wonderful teachers in my life that I respected their relationship with scripture, I learned over time.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And interestingly, in seminary, and I'll come back to that because you would think seminary would draw on all those like bullet pointy, let's learn all the right info.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: But and it does to some extent.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I had some really wonderful people come into my life very early on in my faith that really showed me the openness to a living God inside of scripture, how important that is, how interactive he'll be, pausing before concluding, before arriving at certainty, that being able to insert pause and openness in that process before I just go, Oh, that's the bullet point, you know, yeah, is so rich.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that pause is often where the Holy Spirit will move and interact.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so my learner combined with my eight-ness does love a great bullet point.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I experienced, I think, just by the grace of God, really early on, a strong push toward listening to the Holy Spirit and being open to his movement inside of scripture.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the wonderful ways that I learned to do that even before I studied in an organized way was to pay attention in me to the questions, the curiosities, the frustrations, even the things that didn't make sense, the things an eight kind of wants to shut down a little bit.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes you're like, I'm gonna think about that later because I know these three things.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I learned to honor the things that were more confusing or frustrating.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And eights don't always love.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: You were willing to keep an open loop and uncertainty over here, kind of eliminal space and be okay that there's some things that lived there before you could make complete sense.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I really began to experience the layers of scripture that are not immediately accessible.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I would hang on to that uncertainty, often the Holy Spirit was at work in that space.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a reason why I might read scripture and be curious, confused, frustrated, uncertain about something.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Very often, very often, that is the work of the Holy Spirit because he wants to bring us through that to a new kind of life, a new kind of wisdom, a new kind of understanding.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think I did have some people that taught me how to honor that fairly early on.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think my tendency as an eight is still to move toward what I can grab, what's certain, what's clear.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: I like all of that.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that again, there's that is wonderful.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and that is that's a gift.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is a gift.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, I think just being able to engage the scriptures in both of those ways has been really important.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think my natural tendency is I will read through a passage and I swear I've had people say, like, how did you just say those three things?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just see it like boom, boom, boom.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is and um and it's it can be both wonderful and unhelpful all at the same time.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think about the propensity to make things happen as an eight and follow a formula because it's safe, there's control involved in that, it's less risky in a way, which risk can equal vulnerability, and that's a place an eight doesn't enjoy going.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think about so many of the eights I've coached, that five presence is very active.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the line towards the five, typically in stress, but through integration and formation can be a point of health.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so even what you outline here in your journey of going, there was the desire for learning, but almost an overreach or a faster pace, whereas in the healthy side of the five allows the slowness, allows I can't help but think this is where formation is happening instead of formulation and forced fruit, because it's through the formation that the fruit comes out naturally and is invitational and maybe in the long run provides more health for others.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's so interesting.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't take long for me to realize the most powerful, fruitful moments I was having in scripture with the Lord were on the flip side of that vulnerability, risk, uncertainty thing.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so it didn't take me long to go, like, oh, when I feel that, I know he's there.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know that this is gonna be good.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so it does help me balance that because I have had a number of interactions where he's really, just really personally revealed or comforted or ministered to me in some way.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's on the back side of can I be open enough or risk, you know, not not risk averse, just pause in that in that cloud of like, God, I don't like this, or I don't I don't know this, or I don't understand you, and just let that be.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, that's just let that be.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the coolest interactions I've had with God have wooed me to keep doing that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get and to let that live in balance with some of my aid-ish tendencies.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, even to leave room for faith.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I am doing a read through the Bible in a year, which I've done before.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't love it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just be honest.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where I really resonate because I love to do a deep dive.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want to walk away with greater understanding and feel more secure.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: My my desire for security is coming out there, shining in this moment.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the reading through a year is pushing me towards continuing through the uncomfortable passages and just allowing it to be, I don't have the answer.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't able to cross-reference all the things or pull it together or end it with a pretty bow and just live of that is the God that I still serve today, that is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean for me today?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean in light of the gospel that I have now?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And just let that unfold and live with that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really think this is such an important element.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Bible in a year is interesting.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I did that last year.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it again this year.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I too share some of your thoughts there about like, wait, I'm not, I can't, you know, I'm rushing past the keep moving.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: But the blessing that I have learned in reading the Bible totally different ways, and I would advocate all of them.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should do Bible in a year, and I think you should do one book in a year at some point.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: All the things.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: But Bible in a year is fascinating because what I believe, which you've probably seen already, but what I believe it does is you can read the Bible in different ways for different reasons.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that happens with Bible in a year is because of the pace you're keeping, you might be missing some of the details, but you're picking up on the whole.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna you're gonna make connections much faster.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna hear the narrative of the whole Bible much better than if you get deeply into one paragraph for a week.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just a lot stepping back and allowing yourself to go, okay, whatever I feel like because of how I'm wired about this way of reading the Bible, because somebody else could get very frustrated by reading two verses in a day and spending an hour studying them, that could be incredibly frustrating for someone.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: What I always try to tell people is like reading the Bible is a lifetime endeavor.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: You should just read it all these different ways and just keep going and keep trying a different way because one of the things that we finally come to is that as constant exposure is um necessary for us to get comfortable scripture and the Bible in a year forces us to keep moving.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I think there's a really good part of that where we see the parts of scripture so quickly that you're gonna read a psalm that came from the time in David's life in 2 Samuel, you just read, and all of a sudden they're right there together, and you might not have even read those in the same year at a hundred percent.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've tried to focus on the blessing of it myself when I've done that, but I share your frustration and not being able to follow all the rabbit trails, but no wait.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So and to your point, I've loved doing it now because it has been, I don't even remember, it could have been 20 years ago now that I give it some thought.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a while since I've done a through the year, maybe not that long, but just what I know now about life, what I know about the Bible and context, it's just it's really great.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love, I we, I would absolutely recommend it from that standpoint of do it differently every year.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just get in the word somewhere, somehow.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: We'll both be doing that.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm curious in that line, just not only your knowledge of the Bible, but having read it different ways at different times.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a passage in a season that just really helped speak to a place of either where you were wounded with betrayal, where you were struggling with being fearful of being controlled?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just some of those eight tender spots that the Lord used the word of God to speak to you very specifically and intimately and moving forward in faith or maybe with some healing or tenderness towards yourself.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll give you an interesting one actually, because it was about re-embracing my aatness.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So let me back up for a second and say that um I grew up with a specifically a mom, but with a a household, I would say, around me that being an ate was mean.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was too direct, it was too honest, it was too much.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so no one ever said those words.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think the only words that stuck on my soul that I had to get rid of were that I am harsh, which I now know is not true.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how other people experience me at all, but that's what I believed because those words were said to me.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what that meant was your honesty is too much.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know how to handle that as a family, right?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: So when I would just be honest or say what I thought or be direct about something, it was not well received and was received by them as being quote too harsh.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I really.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Had a hard time.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: There was a measure of self-awareness I got before I knew I was an eight.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I already knew I was an eight.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I could recognize the tendencies, right?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And part of what I love about AIDS is you do not have to guess with what they are.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a directness that I just love about eights.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually liked that about myself.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that I was told not to.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that was very confusing.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that and so it took me a long, the long way around of, you know, and I still appreciate that about others.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like to guess.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate someone who just communicates directly.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel that the Lord was had taken me pretty much on a journey of going, I like this about you.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I made you that way on purpose.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the more gracious I got in truly receiving Christ and truly operating in his grace, the more I knew this is not how others receive me.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I can drop that old lie.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to be worried about that.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: But here's what happened: an interesting day that I was struggling with something with one of my kids.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter had an ongoing issue she was dealing with, and I kept trying to coach her.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Take, take, she's a teenager.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know teenagers, you're trying to make that awkward transition between telling them what to do all the time and letting them figure it out on their own.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I kept approaching this particular thing as a coach.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that as an eight, who was told being an eight is mean, that feels good because you're like, oh, I'm coaching.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not being mean.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not being too hard.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm coaching.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guiding.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm drafting gently.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is good.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is better.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it, I'm doing a good job.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I read Acts 12 and I wasn't, I had nothing in mind of my daughter.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just read Acts 12.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And in Acts 12, there's there is a situation where Peter is in prison, and the Lord sends an angel to guide him out.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he caused me to notice as I was reading this passage in Acts 12, how the angel was speaking to him.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, I realized, oh, he's talking to me about this issue with my daughter.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: He wants me to speak to her like this.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And here's what the angel does get up, put on your cloak, follow me out, like very clear direction, very obvious language, commanding language, bullet points, bullet through no guessing in between.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly I realized I'm reading because I had been asking the Lord, can you help me with this?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: This keeps coming up and it's just not working, and I don't understand why.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a moment where he was like, You're fighting your own tenancy.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can do this just fine.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do this, and it was so redeeming for me because I think from somebody who believed being an eight was a little bit mean.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: To see this interaction where this was absolutely necessary.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was loving, it was good.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Peter was in the dark, the absolute dark.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: He would never have gotten out without that direction.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like the Lord said, You, your daughter is in the dark.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be directive.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: She does not need a coach.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: She needs you to stand there and go get up and follow me out.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And interestingly, at the end of that story, here's what happens.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: When he's free, it says the angel walked with him for a block and then disappeared.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, This is what you do.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Tell her the way out and then walk with her for a block, and and you can leave.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have to, you don't have to spin, you don't have to coach, and you're not being mean and you're not being controlling.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're literally walking her to freedom, and you're gonna do one lap with her and then hands off.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then hands off.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So wow, it's that's amazing.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a high control, it's not a I'm gonna get in there and live your life for you.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's that your gift and your direct communication will be a blessing.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do that, and then walk one lap and hands off.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's so good.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, this was my face.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was realizing like, oh, I'm fighting this tendency in me because I believed a lie that this way of communicating is going to backfire or is mean or harsh or whatever.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the Lord just stepped in and went, No, it's not.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's a place where it is the most freeing, the most loving, the most constructive way that you could talk.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of those times.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, oh my gosh, that is so freeing for me and so helpful as a parent.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was like on so many levels.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was such a blessing.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back to my daughter and I said, Hey, I think I've been talking to you like this, and here's been my heart behind that.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now I kind of realize I think I need to do this.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna change and I'm gonna tell you when we're in this situation, I'm just gonna tell you, do this.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not because I don't believe in you, and it's not because I don't think you're on your way to freedom, it's because I think that's what you need.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she looked at me and she said, That's exactly what I need.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: She said, I need you to tell me which way to go sometimes.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, I thought there was something wrong with me that I didn't know.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: She was like feeling like, Well, I'll take direction.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she was feeling lost.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, but I was just like, Well, let me help you get there on your own.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the Lord was like, Listen.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're just gonna tell her which way to go.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so redeeming, so freeing for both of us.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then for me to be able to have the relationship with my daughter where I could say, I've been doing this and that's been wrong, and I'm sorry, and I think I'm gonna be able to do it better now.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And for her to be able to say, I understand, and that sounds good.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was really, really good all the way around me personally.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just truly um being able to trust that the Lord knows what he's doing with me, and he's answering a prayer and he's doing it all in the middle of this scripture.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like one of those head spinning moments where I went, This was so good.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I barely know how the Holy Spirit pulled this all off, but it was all because of Acts 12.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And those are the those are the moments in the Bible where I realized I don't need to come to the Bible.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like my bullet pointing nature did actually help me to see when I felt like, oh, the there's something here for me.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I read it again, and then I started like I have practices that I do, and I started to, I just stepped back and I went, okay, what do I notice?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: What am I gonna notice about this passage?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing I noticed, which again I've learned to suspect the Holy Spirit is involved, right?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the first thing I noticed was the language of the angel.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I realized that's not a random insight.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the Lord drawing my attention to something that he wants me to see for a particular reason.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it was almost like both of the things that we discussed before working together.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just my faith that the Holy Spirit is at work in that space.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if I can just get in there and not have to know exactly where it's all headed, he can also use how I read scripture and my tendencies in that way.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And he just knows us inside and out.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: So he can, he could have worked that insight into my life 10 other ways, no doubt.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but yeah, because you could read that passage given a different situation and need an of course insight that would speak to you.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he could have given it to me through the wise counsel of a friend.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: He could have given it to me in any number of ways, but he knows how we're gonna receive and when we can receive it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think about that interaction a lot because he killed like three birds with one sound.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wild.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean so good.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Really wild.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just said a word that I think is really important for I think especially eight types like myself.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: A long, long time ago, I kept the journal.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was right when I would say when I came back to the Lord um in my 20s, and I really picked up the Bible in earnest, and I was seeking Jesus a lot, not in an organized fashion, but just in my spirit.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted him, and I was truly seeking him.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I filled like five pages of this journal because he kept saying the same word to me and just wouldn't stop saying it.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was everywhere I went, it was it was all over scripture, it was in my dreams, it was in my heart all the time.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: He just kept saying the word receive.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Receive me, receive my word, receive rest, receive my grace, receive forgiveness, just receive from me.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And gosh, as an eight, it's like the most, it's the best and worst all at the same time.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, because it receiving requires surrender and openness.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you want that, like we want that, but we've set ourselves up against it, and he just kept saying to me, receive.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I would come to him with stuff and he would go receive.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, It's so frustrating, and all and finally I understood better over time why he would harp on that with me so very much because it is so not the tendency of an age.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's an instant nature, yes, which again at the time I didn't have language for any of that.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew he's telling me to receive that doesn't feel natural.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'm frustrated by that, but I I know this is the Holy Spirit.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kept asking, what do you mean?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And 50 different answers came because the whole basis of our relationship with the Lord is an act of receiving him.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing we can do for him or to receive him, that posture.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if us eights can't crack that code with our connection with the Lord, we will spin off.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: We will be having false relationships where where they're hollow or performancey or um kind of in the truest essence, we'll put ourselves in the middle instead of allowing ourselves to receive from someone above us.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's again, I look back on some of these things now that I have better language for it, and I can see his mercy in my story because he sent, he sent some people and just some insight or little things, even just that word that all these years later, like 20 years later, I haven't forgotten.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like he came after some things really early that are they were so merciful.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, Yeah, let me help you get moving in the right direction, even though you have no idea yet what you're that's right.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Before the awareness, he met you in the that deepest core, and you can look back now and have language and trace it back to the longings and core desires.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um and in that, Ali, I'm really curious before you give us a little bit more insight about this new Bible study that you have offered and you have available now, but I want to flip that question a little bit because I love how the Lord illuminated go after clearly the, or just share really clearly what your daughter needs to do.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I find this interesting because I'm raising launching.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I they're now almost adults, right?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or actually technically.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a seven, an eight, and a three.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm learning and have been learning a lot about how to relate, how to raise them.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then now in this launching, I find my seven does has learned to be more mom.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Will you go ahead and be more direct, which is my inclination, that coach element, but in trying to allow her to become independent in her own thinking, but she has learned to come back to me like, just tell me what to do.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: But with my eight, who's 18, we're we're still at that damp that's still, she doesn't necessarily want the directness because it feels like control.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe give us insight what it looks like to receive coaching as an eight, but you like directness and bluntness, there also has to be a little bit more tender or softer or in a way that I sometimes miss.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: So help us out.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for the first thing I would say to that, if you are dealing with an eight and you need to say some things, yeah, it must, if I could like bold and emphasize this, yeah, I would do my best to do that.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: It must be through a person and in an environment of trust.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get it.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: It must.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And usually for an eight, that is someone who has established that space that an eight doesn't love to operate in, which is that core vulnerability space.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you have the trust to go into that space with that person, chances are they're going to be able to receive a little bit more directness from you.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody comes at me that I don't share that space with, and I'll receive pretty easily.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Once I'm with a person that I it doesn't, it's not that you have to like be gentle, it's that I have to have been there with you.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have to understand establish I can trust this person.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and not just trust them to be smart or good, trust them with me.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't do that easily.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: As an eight, I think that's an eight-ish thing.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: If I have the least whiff of you're trying to get something from me, you're trying to control me in some way, you don't have my best interest at heart, which by the way is probably my broken assumption sometimes.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I will just shut down.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: I won't receive anything.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can say it, and I might be polite, but I'm I won't receive.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good, Ali.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I have found that to be true.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've had the honor of coaching many AIDS, and I say it sincerely, my gratitude for their trust, that they are willing to trust me, to share the hardest parts of their story, to allow me to sit with them and to allow me when the time is right to guide them because that's not always my job.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's more about curiosity and sitting in the bottom of the U or whatever it is, than and asking good questions, than it is being directive.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I always consider an honor because I do think it's a big, yeah, it's a huge deal to be let in that way.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then trying to translate it for raising an aide sometimes is, you know, I've I think celebrating um I think when you share that space.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's assume, okay, that's established, which it very likely is with a child, right?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: With a healthy parent-child relationship, it's you probably share that space.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Then I would say number two on my list is let me invite you into that.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because eights do tend toward control or not wanting to be betrayed.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a little bit of both of those things happening when somebody needs to speak to you, like in a way that like you're gonna need to listen and maybe be open to something here and have a difficult conversation or just receive some truth you might not fully understand yet.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's wonderful when you can ask and allow them to invite you into that space because that feels like a safer way in.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes other people are like, well, I shouldn't have to ask you if I'm allowed to talk to you.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Should or shouldn't really isn't the point.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: You want to put that person in a space where they can receive.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And for an eight to allow them to open the door and invite you to share that, that's good, goes a goes a long way.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because now they are now they're just prepared, even if it's just a moment where you go, I would like to tell you some things.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a good time or is now a good time?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you can allow them to invite you in, they're going to hear you better.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, and you can again, you could judge the eight and say, why do they need to be able to control that?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: We all have our thing.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking to love an eight well or coach an eight well, then this is super helpful.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I would absolutely affirm that wisdom and insight and has been a helpful pattern to engage.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's not so much about the eight's tendency toward control.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you understand and love an eight, you realize what they're trying to get to is they want to feel safe with you.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you can allow those concessions for their nature, you're going to get an open-eared, very receptive eight instead of somebody that's like, and believe me, an eight can shut down and shut out pretty quick.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it first will be done if there's a lack of trust, and it second will be done if you hammer your way in instead of allowing them to open the door and say, Okay, yeah, I'll hear that.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready, or I'm interested, or whatever the case might be.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I get that's some hand holding, but I do think every type there's some, if we want to deal in kindness toward each other and just in maturity, where we're willing to go the extra mile to acknowledge, hey, this person has some core wounds.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's some issues that they're gonna trip over.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if I want to love them, approach them, parent them, whatever, I'm just willing to do that.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: It actually reminds me of how the apostle Paul describes freedom in Christ, is how we treat one another like this.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because should we have to is really not the point.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Should you be free enough to you have the right to speak to your child, Amy, whenever and however you want to.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're the parent.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: You could exercise that right, or you could lay down that right in an effort to love them.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want them to hear you and receive you as Christ, then you can lay that right down to love them and serve them, even though you shouldn't have to.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something a lot of parents aren't sometimes humble enough to apply to their children, even if they're willing to apply that in other ways in their life.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a great deal of humility to say, now I could lay down the rights that I have as a parent to love them like Christ would love them, because sometimes I think parents want to insist on their right to control, to speak, to be authority, to whatever, especially when things are tense, not going well.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the truth is, truth is you can do it that way, and you'd be, quote, within your rights.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the apostle Paul would say, true freedom is being able to lay down your rights so that you can love and serve in the name of Jesus.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when we do that, we can get, we can actually get to a space where somebody can hear essentially the message of Christ through us, which is I love you.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love you.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: I want to speak grace and truth to you.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you can try to hammer it with some types that's gonna work.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: With an eight, it's not gonna work.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna work.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it pushes them away.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're again, if you have a minor child where you're still the authority, they might close their mouth out of politeness or respect for you or fear of you, but it didn't work.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not long term, yeah.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so that's really tough, I think, for a Parent to realize that if they want to preserve that space and that relationship and that trust space with an eight child, it's gonna require an extra step or two.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can't well, it's gonna take it's gonna require you to stay in step with the Holy Spirit.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is one of the reasons why we're talking, because I I mean it has been with every child, and each of their personalities are unique and nuanced.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what Ali has really done well in highlighting here is the unique dynamic for an eight.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Their true tenderness and vulnerability, or tenderness around their vulnerability and the parent-child relationship is just a unique dance to engage with, especially in these launching years.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: And in that for you, Holy Spirit has been something that you've walked in and used and has illuminated the word of God for you.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: So give us a little insight of what we're looking at when it comes to spirit-led Bible study and what we could draw and glean from that in your year.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: We'll use that as our wrap-up here because we've yeah, like we've gotten a lot of insight.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure my friend listening has been note-taking because it's been good.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will say that spirit-led Bible study is was a labor of love for me because of all the things that we've just been discussing, which you've heard, so I will not rewind those.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I realized at some point, oh, I'm reading scripture with two things that I'm constantly holding in tension.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: One is the living spirit of God who wants to lead me personally, and the other is really good Bible study principles.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do I understand the scriptures, keep them in context, do that appropriately, not make the Bible mean whatever I want it to mean.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's important.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: All of those really necessary principles of how you actually read scripture well.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: And spirit-led Bible study is six practices that I realized over time and tried to put into language so I could offer to other people.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Here's how I do that.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Here are six ways that I regularly read scripture.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: If they're like tools in a toolkit, the study takes you through each one.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: You could do their standalone practices, but you'll easily see how you could stack them up and use them together.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just when you're first learning anything, it's best to try one at a time.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're really practices that I personally use, and they combine the living following of the Holy Spirit and his leading of you, with how do you apply great Bible study principles.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: One of them is observation, just learning how to observe the text of scripture and understanding that what you observe, which we discussed earlier when I talked about Acts 12, what you observe in this good Bible study practice, which even could be a little academic, what you're observing that day is being driven by the Holy Spirit.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the assumption in faith that he's at work in the things that you're seeing when you observe is an interesting combination of good Bible study practice with faith-filled desire to be led by the Holy Spirit as you do that.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: So there are six practices, and it's great to do with a group because you get some practice on your own, you try it with your group, and each week is different.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there are sample passages where you just try out that practice each week.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was a ton of fun for me to do and a little scary to shoot the videos because we had a group, nothing is scripted.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: We just tried the practice, tried the practice together and saw where it went.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so you see my group on video practicing together, and then you get some practice, and then you try it with your group as well.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pretty interesting study because it's more of learning how it's more of a method that you can put in your pocket and take with you as you read the Bible, hopefully, for the rest of your life.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, coming from an Enneagram 7 perspective, I love the variety.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love the concept of layering and using it in the season, right?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of those are going to be some tools that are easier to implement in maybe a crazy season or a season where you have a little bit more time to linger.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so, or did, right?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm always talking about rhythms.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: For me, each day is a little bit different.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so having that element is really, really beautiful, I think, to continue to keep us digging in the word.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's out, it's out now, and I think people are enjoying it.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a big group of people in my own community that are about to go through it right now.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I just um it truly is honestly how I read the Bible.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I say it truly was a personal labor of love because it it's like an offering.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to offer you this is what I do.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that helps you.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the tension that I'm always feeling and that I love is I believe that the Lord is present and wants to lead me personally every day, anytime I open the Bible.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to know what you're doing with it.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's figure out the right way to install it.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Ollie.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, your pastoral heart really shines through today in this conversation to help guide us in understanding the eight and your world and how you've implemented it and your love for the Lord, but the love for his word and inviting us all to use it with reverence and care and with some guidance.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so thank you.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing and thank you for yeah, giving us that insight.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: When people are wanting to look more about your book, tell us where we can find it, connect with you.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can find information about all my books on my website, allypatterson.com.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Ali has two L's and an I.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: And also easy to find anywhere you buy books or Bible studies.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: You should be able to find it.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's everywhere.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, and we will definitely link it in the show notes.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're the real deal.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Just appreciate you sharing and your vulnerability today.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know I loved it, and I bet my friend listening is nodding their head as well and saying thank you, Allie, for your time.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for having me.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuck point.