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Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram Daily Podcast - Understanding the Global Youth Culture · KNEO Podcast

0:11
Today on Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram.
0:14
As you listen today, if there is someone in your
0:17
life that's drifted away from the Lord, in fact,
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maybe they're actually hostile. Maybe they're
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your son or one of your grandchildren. If that's
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you, there's hope. Today, we're going to talk
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about not just the next generation, but the people
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that you love. Stay with me. I'm Dave Drury,
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and this is Living on the Edge. In our series,
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Caring Enough to Connect, building bridges to
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those we love, we've been learning what it takes
0:44
to build real relationships in a broken world.
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Today, Chip Ingram sits down for a special conversation
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with his good friend Aaron Pierce, who leads
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a global ministry called Steiger International,
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spending decades reaching secular, non -religious
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young people all over the world with the gospel.
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Together, they'll help us understand how this
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generation really thinks and why the people you
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love are never beyond God's reach. Such an important
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message. Let's get started now. Here's Chip Ingram.
1:13
Well, thanks so much, Dave. We do have a really
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special guest and a very close friend. And Aaron,
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tell us a little bit about your journey just
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for those that may not be familiar with you or
1:25
our relationship. Chip, it's just an honor to
1:27
be on this call with you and to talk with you
1:30
and just to serve with you. And I've always been
1:32
so grateful for you and the influence you've
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had in my life. You know, like I always considered
1:36
you a mentor even before I knew you. And so you've
1:39
had a big influence on my life. And yeah, so
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I grew up as a missionary kid in Amsterdam. And
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you've met my parents and they were missionaries
1:47
in Amsterdam. They had a heart to reach young
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people that wouldn't walk into a church. which
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if you consider a city like Amsterdam, that's
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pretty much all young people. And they see these
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big, beautiful cathedrals that are often closed
2:02
on Sunday and they're museums. And so many people,
2:06
they just view the church as a tradition of the
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past, not relevant to my life. And you find that
2:13
a lot of people living in this secular culture,
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for some of them, religious ideas, it's just
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kind of they're apathetic to it. It doesn't really...
2:22
They don't think about it all that much. Some
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are even cynical or hostile. And yet many are
2:27
very open to spirituality of various kinds. And
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there's all kinds of spiritual expressions that
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people draw to. And so in that environment, I
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just saw a secular culture where people who might
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not walk into a church on a Sunday, and yet we're
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still hungry for the very things that Jesus brings.
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And so that idea of how do we bring the gospel,
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which is as relevant today, to a culture that
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often thinks it's not. And that was the environment
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I grew up in as a kid and got to see God move
2:58
and change lives. And it kind of ruined me in
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a really good way because I saw, you know, that
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Jesus is real and he changes lives. And so, yeah,
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that was the context that then led me to lead
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this mission called Steiger that's mobilizing
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followers of Jesus to reach young people who
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would not walk into a church. So now you have
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teams that are reaching young people and How
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many cities around the world now? It's over 275
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cities, which is wild because when you were with
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us a few years ago, it was about 90. And so we've
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just seen tremendous growth over the last few
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years, an explosion of the move of God reaching
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young people around the world. Well, as we now
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say that and say, well, there's spiritual hunger
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and God's really, really working. I'm going to
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talk to parents and grandparents who are sitting
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in a little bit different situation who. Their
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kids went to a Christian school. They went to
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youth group. They either went away to college
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or there was a gradual drift. They're late teenagers.
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They're middle 20s. They're some in early 30s
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now. They want nothing to do with God, often
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nothing to do with their parents. Some have not
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only drifted from the faith, some have rejected,
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some have deconstructed. More than a cultural
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trend, you saw this as a genuine crisis. Yeah.
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Well, you know, like you, Chip, I get the opportunity
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to preach at churches and conference and events
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all over the world, including here in the U .S.
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And after I preach, I would have a line of parents
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and grandparents coming to talk to me with tears
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in their eyes, talking about their young adult.
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And honestly, the volume and consistency of their
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story, most now seeming to be involved in LGBTQ
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as well. And just all of that, there was just
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so much pain and so much heartache and also a
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sense of not knowing what to do that God began
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to break my heart. For these parents and grandparents
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and just saying, God, we got to serve them. We
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got to equip them. And so this went from statistics
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and trends to something deeply personal for me
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because of the stories that I was hearing from
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these parents and grandparents. Well, let me
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pause for a moment here and I want you to. Invite
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a parent or grandparent who feels like, you know,
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I don't think there's any hope. They won't talk
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to me or, you know, I don't bring up religion
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anymore at all. I can't even talk about Jesus
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and I don't get it. I don't understand. Not saying
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that their sons and daughters who've drifted
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or are deconstructing are right. But could you,
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like, invite them to sit down at a table just
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with you and me, maybe picture a cup of coffee,
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and would you help them understand how their
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kids and grandkids are thinking, how they view
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the world that is so different than their parents?
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Help that parent or grandparent understand. And
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by the way, if you're a parent, a grandparent,
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and you're thinking, oh, please speak, could
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I ask you to lean back right now? feels very
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painful. Some of you have dealt with a lot of
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anger, others with a lot of guilt. Our goal here
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is we've got to build some bridges, and to do
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that, we need to step back a little bit. and
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discover what they're feeling, how they're thinking,
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not saying it's always right or true by any means.
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But if you don't understand, that prayer that
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I pray often by St. Francis, where he says, Lord,
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grant that I may seek to understand more than
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to be understood. Seek that I may love more than
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to be loved. That idea of empathy. Help us. What
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do you hear from these kids? I mean, you meet
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them on the street. You've met them at LGBT rallies.
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You've met them in places that most Christians
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never go. And you hear their stories. Help that
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parent or grandparent. You nailed it, which is
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I think so often in this context, we're looking
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to tell people the answer rather than first to
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understand. And I actually think in order to
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really communicate Jesus effectively, we need
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to know. what they're thinking what's influencing
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them and so we live in a culture this generation
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that is quite distinct from a few generations
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ago and in the voices and influences that's shaping
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how they see the world essentially the the main
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uh like you know second corinthians 4 4 says
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the god of this age has blinded the minds of
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unbelievers the god of this age is is what i
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would describe as secular humanism And it's this
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idea that God has been replaced. And I am at
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the center. I'm God. And there's no outside authority
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that can tell me how to live my life. It's the
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era of my truth and all identity. purpose and
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morality is self -constructed. You know, in the
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Christian worldview, we discover those things
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because God designed those things. In the secular
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world, I design it. I develop it. I decide who
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I am. I decide what's right and wrong. I decide
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the purpose for my life. And it sounds liberating.
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It sounds like freedom, but the truth is this
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worldview is actually quite destructive. It's
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like poison wrapped in bubble gum. It looks all
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sweet and shiny on the outside, but it's actually
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destroying people. It's like it says in Proverbs
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16, 25, there's a way that seems right to a man,
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but its end is the way to death. And so what
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we have is this culture that's telling people
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it's all about you. There are no rules. You know,
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the rules are fake. Just do what you want. Do
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what makes you feel good. And so what we have
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instead of freedom, we're finding bondage. We
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have a culture that is confused, that's sexually
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broken, lonely, anxious, depressed. This is the
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felt need of our culture. And what's interesting
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is secular culture does not deny those things.
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They just don't have a good answer to them. So
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this is all that's going on. And there's so much
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confusion. Like take the topic of love. We all,
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of course, we have this innate desire for love
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and intimacy. It's how God wired us. But our
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culture is incredibly confused about love. Because
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on one hand, you have hookup culture where sex
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is basically just a physical act for pleasure.
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And apart from consent, there's no moral guidance.
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And so just do what makes you happy. You got
9:27
that on one side. And then on the other side,
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in the same breath, we're looking for the one.
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that will complete us, that will satisfy all
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our needs and desires, that person that will
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fill the emptiness. And so you got these two
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extremes that people believe about love. No wonder
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we're confused. No wonder we're broken. And so
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I think. the response to all of this shouldn't
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be, what's wrong with you? How dumb could you
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be? But rather it should be like Jesus, which
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is to have compassion on those that are confused,
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which is really what I would say, that's the
10:03
state of our culture is we're confused. And so
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this is the air that people are breathing today.
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And then you add to that a general skepticism
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towards authority and towards like religious
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institutions. And so even though Jesus has the
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answers to what they are looking for, they're
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not looking to the church. So part of it is just
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recognizing the cultural moment that we're in
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and how do we now communicate Jesus in that context.
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And that's what I want to talk about because
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I think when I was with your team, And as we
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built time together, one of the reasons that
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we partnered together to develop the book, Not
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Beyond Reach, is what I saw was, maybe this is
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part of my giftedness, is I saw that you all
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literally had a very clear process that you walked
10:58
people through, that you were so close to it,
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you almost didn't see it. I mean, but it was
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so clear. And I thought, oh, my. First of all,
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they go where lost people go. Second, they don't
11:10
judge them. They ask questions and they listen.
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Third, you all would have spiritual conversations
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that everyone has. Loneliness and what's life
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all about and what's your purpose with no judgment
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and often with a bottle of water or a meal. And
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then you would have Bible studies for non -Christians.
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You could ask anything, no pushing. And yet what
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you did is you built safety and then you asked
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them questions that. honestly, in their confusion,
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they couldn't really answer, but they felt loved
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and it was safe. And they were now open to do
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something they hadn't done before. Instead of
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packaging Jesus with religion, or this is what
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my parents believe, or this is connected to some
11:54
political figure or some building, all of a sudden
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you are introducing them to the Jesus of the
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New Testament in a very safe way. But you built
12:05
a lot. of bridges. And then you had that gospel
12:08
conversation. You let them understand that the
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root issue is sin for all of us, that there is
12:15
a Savior, there is hope. And so, you know, that
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book was to codify that. You're listening to
12:22
Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram, and there's
12:25
more coming up in just a moment. But first, stick
12:27
around after today's teaching. We'll tell you
12:30
about a resource built to help you have real
12:32
gospel -centered conversations with the people
12:34
in your own life who feel far from God. It's
12:37
called Not Beyond Reach, and it might be exactly
12:40
what you need for that one relationship you've
12:43
been praying about. Well, now back to today's
12:45
lesson. Let me say this. Mary's 22 years old.
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She doesn't talk to her parents anymore. She's
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in a alternative lifestyle. And her parents feel
12:56
like, I just can't get through to Mary anymore.
12:58
Or you can make it George, who's 24. You're sitting
13:02
down with them. They have some alternative sort
13:06
of symbols around that let you know, this is
13:09
my new identity. Would you help a parent? listen
13:13
to you sit down, and could you just have a conversation
13:16
with that person? Maybe you notice, I often do
13:20
this when you notice a tattoo that you know has
13:22
some symbolism, and I will often say something,
13:25
wow, that's an interesting tattoo. Tell me a
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little bit about that, which is a completely
13:30
different approach than why they got that stuff,
13:32
you know. So help that parent understand what
13:37
you actually say. Because I want to talk about
13:40
a resource that we have for them, but I think
13:43
they need to hear, okay, it's confusing. The
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world's messed up, but they're living in pain.
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How do you go about connecting with this person
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that would model for them how they could go about
13:55
doing it? Yeah. Well, I think the complexity
13:58
here is distinct when it comes to parents and
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grandparents, because the dynamic can get a little
14:04
more emotional. It can get a little more, there's
14:06
more going on. And so one of the things I would
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say is there is this tendency to want to rush
14:12
in with the answers and here, look at this article
14:16
or, you know, the Bible says this and kind of
14:19
come in hot with your answers. And I think obviously
14:22
the truth is truth and people need to hear the
14:25
truth. But I think when it comes to kids, parents
14:28
and grandparents interacting with their kids,
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often I think that the key is that you need to
14:34
be a relationally present in their life. What
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the enemy wants to do is to divide and to disconnect
14:40
and isolate. And I think what you need to do
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is first and foremost, show them with your actions
14:46
that even if you don't agree with their lifestyle,
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even if you don't agree with their choices, you
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love them. And nothing's going to change that.
14:54
And you will pursue them and meet them on their
14:56
turf. And part of what you're doing is you're
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challenging some lies that they believe, that
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they're going to be rejected, that you don't
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love them, or your love is conditional. And part
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of that is you're softening the ground for work
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that the Lord can do. And I think, you know,
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I've been meditating on this idea of the aroma
15:14
of Christ and this idea that when the Holy Spirit
15:17
is inside of us, the fruit of the Spirit really
15:19
draws people. And I think God can do work in
15:23
people's hearts even before we communicate the
15:25
words. And while I'm a big believer in preaching
15:28
the words, often with parents and grandparents,
15:30
the first thing is we need to make sure we're
15:33
solidifying the relational bonds. Because I think
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that's one of the ways that the enemy can, you
15:38
know, sets us up. part disconnects us. So that
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would be my first point. The other thing is like,
15:44
we need to recognize that what they believe is
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not simply a matter of logic and persuasion.
15:49
There is a spiritual reality going on. I already
15:52
quoted, you know, second Corinthians four, four,
15:54
the God of this age has blinded the minds of
15:57
unbelievers. So what we're dealing with is spiritual
16:00
blindness. And all my apologetic arguments and
16:04
all my persuasion is not enough if they are spiritually
16:08
blind. And that is why prayer is not just this
16:12
nice Christian activity that we do or a warm
16:14
up to the real work. Prayer is essential. So
16:17
I would say start with engaging, building the
16:21
relational bond and praying in a new way. Because
16:25
God's got to do something supernaturally for
16:28
my words to matter at all. And so I would start
16:31
with those two places and then pray also that
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God would bring about circumstances and people
16:37
around them that could reintroduce them to Jesus.
16:40
Because I would suggest that in most cases, the
16:44
parents or the grandparents are not going to
16:45
be the one that God uses to bring Jesus back
16:47
to them. And so it's kind of this surrender there.
16:51
Well, I saw the process when I was doing some
16:54
training in Germany, but I never will forget.
16:58
And our new president, he's not new anymore.
17:01
He's been with us three years. Mike and I were
17:02
there together. And you broke up into groups
17:05
into regions, different regions of the world,
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and said, we're going to pray now. And, you know,
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I thought, yeah, okay. So, you know, we knelt
17:12
down and got in circles and started to pray.
17:16
You know, I was used to how other Christians
17:18
pray, you know, Lord, you know, help us, blah,
17:20
blah, blah. Well, you know, I mean, we're 45
17:22
minutes into it. We're an hour into it. And I'm
17:26
listening to young people plead with God, intercede,
17:30
fasting, crying out. There was a level of passion
17:35
and intensity because they had been there. They
17:38
had been lost. They had been blind. And I want
17:42
to say something as a pastor and as a parent,
17:45
as a grandparent. This is going to be hard for
17:49
some of you to hear. Some of the issue is not
17:52
with your kids. Some of the issue is with you.
17:55
You need to ask yourself, are you living an authentic
17:59
life? Is church something you just go to? Are
18:03
you in God's Word? passionate? Do you want your
18:06
life to work out? Are you a consumer or are you
18:10
the kind of Christian that really reveals Christ?
18:13
And I don't mean this as some big, you know,
18:16
guilt trip. I'm just saying you can't change
18:20
other people, but you can look into your own
18:22
heart, your own life and say, God, start with
18:26
me. Take away the pain, the hurt, the calluses,
18:30
the rejection, the part where you want to pay
18:34
them back. All those tapes about, you know, they're
18:38
so ungrateful. They don't remember all the things
18:40
I did for them. You know, I paid for the college.
18:43
I did this. I made these sacrifices. All that
18:46
may be true, but those may be the very barriers.
18:51
And some of that is self -righteousness. And
18:53
some of it is you wanted good, moral, nice kids.
18:57
that maybe the living Christ needs to be living
19:01
more deeply in your heart and your life, and
19:04
you begin to say, oh God, oh God, I long for
19:11
my child or my grandchild to fully, completely
19:15
return to you, or maybe to really meet you for
19:18
the first time. But here's where I want to start.
19:22
Whatever I need to see, whatever I need to address
19:25
in my own life, Whatever sin, whatever perspective,
19:29
oh God, speak and work in me first that I might
19:34
be a tool in your hands to reach my son, my daughter,
19:39
or one of my grandkids. And I don't mean that
19:42
harshly. I've been around this for a long time,
19:45
Aaron, and I've seen where the transformation
19:48
occurs. I have multiple friends whose kids are
19:51
in alternative lifestyles. And the ones who have
19:54
seen, and sometimes it's been a decade, the one
19:56
that's been two decades, he just wouldn't stop
20:01
loving his daughter. And yes, she got married
20:05
to another woman. They adopted kids. And then
20:09
over time. When you sow to the flesh, you do
20:12
reap corruption. And those relationships break
20:15
down and there's times of pain. And the people
20:18
they come back to are ones that they can respect
20:20
and who've loved them. He never changed his view
20:23
of theology. There were always clear boundaries,
20:26
but he wouldn't stop loving her. And in the midst
20:29
of the pain, the breakup, the relationship, the
20:32
challenges with the kids, she turned to come
20:36
to him to say, Dad. I need your help. And he
20:40
was there. And he just kept building bridges
20:43
and honestly received a lot of rejection along
20:47
the way, not only from her, but from brothers
20:50
and sisters and other people who said, hey, you
20:53
know, you can't take that stance. You just need
20:55
to change your theology. And yet people know.
20:59
down deep in their heart, who they can trust.
21:01
And that's built on what you've talked about.
21:04
And that's been the whole process of not only
21:07
the book, but now the new video and small group
21:10
resource to help parents, grandparents, and pastors
21:13
really learn there is a new way to reach people.
21:18
And it's not telling them a bunch of facts of
21:20
what they need to believe. exactly nailed the
21:25
heart of this. And then, yeah, there are times
21:28
to talk, but what we teach in the book is you
21:30
go from these relational, loving friendship conversations,
21:34
which Jesus modeled, by the way, right? Jesus
21:36
was a friend of sinners. Like that was one of
21:38
the great accusations against Jesus. And so he
21:40
demonstrated that you can love people and not
21:43
affirm the sin in their life, which is what he
21:45
did. But then how do I engage in spiritual conversations
21:49
that serve as a bridge? to Jesus? And how do
21:53
I take the everyday things of life that we wrestle
21:56
with, that we have questions about, and ask questions
21:59
and create an environment where people can have
22:02
these conversations? And we've seen that over
22:04
and over. It opens people's hearts to Jesus.
22:09
You're listening to Living on the Edge with a
22:11
message titled, Understanding the Global Youth
22:14
Culture, part of our series, Caring Enough to
22:16
Connect, Building Bridges to Those We Love. If
22:20
you missed any part of today's conversation between
22:22
Chip Ingram and Aaron Pierce, be sure to catch
22:25
up when you can by going online to livingontheedge
22:27
.org. And if today's conversation raised more
22:31
questions than it answered, that's exactly the
22:34
point. There's much more coming up, so stick
22:36
with us as we continue this impactful study.
22:39
And to be sure you never miss a message, subscribe
22:41
to the Living on the Edge podcast to catch every
22:44
conversation wherever you listen. Aaron grew
22:48
up as a missionary kid in Amsterdam, watching
22:50
secular young people who were spiritually hungry
22:53
but had already written off the church. And that's
22:56
exactly what led him to write Not Beyond Reach.
22:59
It's not a theory book. It's a practical guide
23:02
for anyone who loves someone who's drifted from
23:04
the faith, showing you how to move from friendship
23:07
to spiritual conversation to the gospel itself.
23:10
Purchase your copy today at livingontheedge .org
23:14
slash offers. And if today's conversation stirred
23:17
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us at 888 -333 -6003. You can also send your
23:33
gift by mail to Living on the Edge, P .O. Box
23:36
3007, Sewanee, Georgia 30024. Well, now here's
23:42
Chip Ingram to close out this really special
23:44
message. Dave, thanks so much. You know, we have
23:47
covered some issues. that are near and dear to
23:50
all of our hearts, and some that have created
23:53
much, much pain. But I want to remind you there
23:56
are answers and there are solutions. And there's
23:59
some action to take. If you really care, let
24:02
me encourage you to get the small group resource.
24:05
There are videos that you can do privately, way
24:07
better to do in a small group. Some of you need
24:10
to introduce this to your pastor. We can't keep
24:13
talking about reaching the next generation unless
24:16
we do something. So let me encourage you, don't
24:19
just be moved, be moved to action. The Bible's
24:23
really clear. When we hear truth, it's how we
24:26
respond to it that makes a difference. Dave,
24:29
why don't you give them a few details on how
24:30
they can get it? Happily. Once again, the book
24:33
is called Not Beyond Reach, and it's available
24:35
at livingontheedge .org slash offers. Well, next
24:39
time, Chip and Erin continue their conversation,
24:42
showing us exactly what the next generation believes
24:45
and how you can reach them with the hope of the
24:47
gospel. Join us again right here on Living on
24:51
the Edge. Today's program is produced and sponsored
24:57
by Living on the Edge.