Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 7-9) (5/16/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 7-9) (5/16/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:03
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
0:06
back to the interview given by a corrections officer, Michael Thomas,
0:11
who ended up getting charged after he says he fell
0:14
asleep the night that Jeffrey Epstein met his demise. And
0:18
in our last episode we went to a break. Now
0:21
they're back from the break and the questions are coming
0:24
in again from the redacted investigator. Question some of those questions,
0:30
then you might not know the answers to who are
0:32
the MCC supervisors on duty with responsibility for overseeing the
0:36
shoe on August nine and tenth, twenty nineteen. I'll actually
0:40
provide you with this duty agent roster to help. So
0:44
this is an MCC New York Delhi assignment roster for
0:48
August Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen. Thomas the tenth question Saturday,
0:55
August tenth, twenty nineteen. So were the MCC supervisors on
1:02
duty with the responsibility for overseeing the shoe on August
1:05
ninth and tenth, twenty nineteen, So who would have is
1:10
it true that the shoe lieutenant If the shoe lieutenant
1:13
is out of the office. Mitchell, I'm sorry, can we
1:17
do one question at a time because you jumped to
1:19
the second and he didn't answer it. Question, Well, it's
1:23
because I wanted to explain that the shoe lieutenant was
1:26
out Mitchell, okay. Question, so, who then would be responsible
1:30
to oversee the shoe if the shoe lieutenant is out? Thomas?
1:35
Speaker 2: I WHOA.
1:36
Speaker 1: If the shoe lieutenant's out, who would be responsible?
1:40
Speaker 2: Question?
1:41
Speaker 1: Would it be the ops or activities lieutenant Thomas? For
1:45
my shift or for the shift that I was on
1:47
at the time, that would be? He gets cut off.
1:51
Question just what's your understanding? So for August ninth, who
1:55
would be like, for instance, and we can start from
1:58
when you worked on August ninth, who on August ninth
2:02
would have been responsible for overseeing the shoe if the
2:05
shoe lieutenant is not there? Thomas? I guess the operations lieutenant.
2:10
Question okay, and what does it say? Thomas? Oh? He
2:14
gets cut off. And then after redacted gets off, it
2:18
looks like her duty was from I think that they
2:21
were a little different, but it shows on this that
2:24
it was midnight to eight am. I believe they actually
2:27
worked ten pm to six am. But after she would
2:31
leave at either six am or eight am.
2:34
Speaker 2: Who would then.
2:35
Speaker 1: Become the person with oversight in the shoe? Thomas, I
2:38
guess it's either he gets cut off. Question would it
2:41
be redacted or redacted?
2:43
Speaker 2: Thomas?
2:44
Speaker 1: It would be both redacted and redacted. That's operations and
2:48
the activities lieutenant. Question okay, and then after them it
2:52
would be redacted and redacted Thomas. Oh, yes, question okay? Thomas, Well, actually, well, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. Question,
3:06
So is this how it works? These people up here,
3:09
these are the operations lieutenant or activities lieutenant would have
3:12
oversight of the shu mister Thomas, Well, if I'm not mistaken.
3:17
If I'm not mistaken, I think, as I said, the
3:20
captain is the shoe's house. So I would say, well,
3:24
direct supervisor would be first line super would be the
3:28
operations lieutenant and activities lieutenant. Question okay, and would it
3:33
be he gets cut off by Thomas that goes for redacted?
3:38
Question one or the other? Would it be that one?
3:40
Speaker 2: Typically?
3:41
Speaker 1: Thomas, Well, operations are a head of the whole building. Question,
3:47
So if you had an issue with the shoe, who
3:49
would you contact? Thomas? The operations lieutenant question? Not the
3:53
activities Lieutenant Thomas, Well, activities doesn't come in until six
3:58
in the morning. Question, So if the activity is lieutenant
4:02
and both operations, Lieutenant are both present and there was
4:05
I know you weren't working this day during that time,
4:08
but if someone when they're both on duty, who would
4:11
be contacted activities or operations or is it either? Thomas?
4:16
You would just say whatever shoe needed, You say operations,
4:19
you say operations. It really depends on the situation. Depends
4:23
on the situation whether you would call the activities or
4:26
the operations. But nine out of ten times mostly with
4:30
this you call operations. Question and does activities Lieutenant sit
4:34
in operations? Thomas, what do you mean?
4:37
Speaker 2: Question? So how does it work?
4:40
Speaker 1: Thomas? They can be anywhere in the building?
4:42
Speaker 2: Question?
4:44
Speaker 1: Are those two individuals together? Thomas, No, normally not together.
4:48
They can be anywhere in the building. Question, So would
4:51
you ever call on say activities Thomas? There could be
4:55
an instance where you call and say activities when you
4:58
don't want to bother. It depends, like I said, depending
5:00
on the situation.
5:02
Speaker 2: Question.
5:02
Speaker 1: Okay, And when you were in the shoe on August tenth,
5:06
who would have been who would have been or had
5:09
oversight as lieutenant on August tenth, Thomas redacted question redacted Thomas, Yeah, question,
5:17
Lieutenant redacted Thomas, lieutenant sir. Question, okay, great, and then
5:22
I think that she left at six am. Who would
5:25
have taken over that responsibility? Would it have been redacted Thomas? Uh?
5:32
Speaker 2: Yeah? Question? Okay? Who is lieutenant?
5:36
Speaker 1: And I don't know exactly how to pronounce his name,
5:38
but redacted Thomas, he's redacted?
5:42
Speaker 2: No on this?
5:43
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, who is he not looking at this? Do
5:46
you know who he is? Lieutenant redacted Thomas. Question, Lieutenant Thomas,
5:51
he's a lieutenant at MCC. I think he might be
5:55
just a quarterly shoe lieutenant.
5:57
Speaker 2: I guess.
5:58
Speaker 1: Question he was the shoe you, Lieutenant Thomas, yeah, question, Okay,
6:03
do you know if he was the shoe lieutenant in
6:05
August of twenty nineteen? Thomas, I don't remember.
6:08
Speaker 2: I don't know. Question.
6:10
Speaker 1: So that's not something that you would know during the
6:13
day Thomas during the day. Yeah, question, So that's nothing.
6:19
He gets cut off by Thomas. But it's like from
6:21
the roster. I'm sure they posted it. It's probably somewhere
6:24
on the roster somewhere, But I mean, if he says
6:27
he's a shoe lieutenant. He's the shoe lieutenant. If he
6:31
was the shoe lieutenant, if it was his quarter to
6:33
have it, then he's the shoe lieutenant redacted. Okay, do
6:37
you know if he was off on August ninth, twenty nineteen, Thomas,
6:42
I don't know. Question, you don't know, sure? Absolutely. Did
6:46
you have any communication with Lieutenant redacted with regard to
6:49
Epstein being housed within the MCC Thomas, no question? Or
6:54
in the shoe Thomas, no question? Any kind of email
6:58
or any kind of communication. When I say communication, I
7:02
mean verbal Thomas, Oh question, emails anything, Thomas, not that
7:07
I know of, No, not that I can recall.
7:09
Speaker 2: Question.
7:10
Speaker 1: Okay, So, did Lieutenant redacted ever provide you with any
7:14
kind of special instruction with regard to Epstein? Thomas, no question.
7:19
Did Lieutenant redacted ever tell you that Epstein was required
7:22
to have a cellmate when he was assigned to the
7:24
shoe Thomas, no question. Do you know who was operations
7:29
lieutenant redacted? I guess he was the operations lieutenant Thomas, yeah.
7:34
Question is he regularly the operations lieutenant? Thomas? It he
7:38
gets cut off? Question at the time? Thomas it varies.
7:42
You know, it's a rotating shift, so they could have
7:45
switched shifts at that time.
7:47
Speaker 2: It varies. Question.
7:48
Speaker 1: Okay, So according to this August ninth, Thomas, this says
7:53
that he comes in. Was it six and eight, eight
7:56
to four or seven to ten, whichever one? Well, it says,
8:00
so it would be eight to four.
8:02
Speaker 2: Question.
8:02
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that from my understanding, some of the
8:05
lieutenants were actually working two hours before Thomas.
8:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:09
Speaker 1: Question, so I think he was actually six am to
8:13
two pm, although it's confusing on this by looking at
8:16
the roster. So when he was on, would have been
8:19
responsible for overall oversight of the shoe Thomas, Yeah, if
8:23
he was the operation's lieutenant.
8:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. Question Okay.
8:27
Speaker 1: Did you have any communication with redacted in regard to
8:30
Ebstein Thomas, no question, or the shoe Thomas, no question. No,
8:36
so not even any kind of not even talking about
8:39
Epstein with anything to do with your responsibility in the
8:42
shoe with redacted Thomas, no question. Okay, And again I'm
8:47
going to say these names just to try and change
8:50
things around Thomas.
8:51
Speaker 2: Fine. Question.
8:52
Speaker 1: Did Lieutenant redacted ever provide you with special instruction with
8:56
regard to Ebstein? Thomas, no question. Did Lieutenant redacted ever
9:01
tell you that Epstein was required to have a cell
9:03
mate while he was assigned to the Shoe? Thomas, no question.
9:07
Who is Lieutenant redacted? You don't even know, Thomas. He
9:13
just started there. I think I want to say he
9:15
just started there just to transfer. He probably was there
9:18
two months. I think I vaguely remember him. Thomas. Do
9:23
you know if any had involvement or oversight of the shoe? Thomas.
9:26
I probably spoke to him twice redacted twice. Do you
9:31
know what those communications entailed? Thomas time question, anything to
9:36
do with Epstein? Thomas, no question. No, never provided with
9:41
any special instruction with Epstein? Thomas, No, he never provided
9:46
any special instruction with Epstein. Question. Never told you that
9:50
Epstein was required to have a cell mate? Thomas, no question. Okay,
9:54
what about senior officer specialist redacted? Thomas, Uh huh, I
9:58
know her?
10:00
Speaker 2: Question?
10:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, so on August ninth, if you look at this,
10:03
it looks like she was the activity's lieutenant. Thomas, yeah.
10:07
Question from what appears to be it says two pm
10:11
to ten pm. Obviously you weren't there at that time,
10:14
correct Thomas?
10:16
Speaker 2: Uh huh? I wasn't there?
10:18
Speaker 1: Question? You weren't there at any time? Did you have
10:21
any communication with SOS redacted as far as Epstein? Thomas nope.
10:26
Speaker 2: Question.
10:27
Speaker 1: Did she ever give you any special instruction with Epstein? Thomas,
10:31
no question? Did she ever tell you that Epstein was required?
10:35
Davis el Mate Thomas no question. While assigned to the shoe,
10:40
No Thomas, no question. Now we're going to talk about
10:44
the staff members in the shoe on August tenth when
10:46
you were there, Thomas, okay.
10:48
Speaker 2: Question, all right?
10:49
Speaker 1: What BOP employees worked in the shoe on August tenth,
10:53
twenty nineteen, from approximately twelve am to six thirty am,
10:58
mister Thomas on miss Nowell. Question and yourself Thomas and myself?
11:04
Speaker 2: Question? Okay?
11:05
Speaker 1: And what was your role in the shoe on August tenth,
11:07
twenty nineteen. Thomas, I was shoe too. She was Shoe one.
11:12
Speaker 2: Question. And what does that mean? Thomas?
11:15
Speaker 1: It just means that it's just where you were assigned.
11:17
It's just where I was assigned. I was assigned there
11:20
for overtime. She was assigned there for overtime. Question. Is
11:25
there a difference between Shoe one and Shoe two though?
11:27
Like different responsibilities Thomas. I couldn't you have to read
11:31
the past orders, the post orders. I couldn't tell you question, okay, Thomas, Uh,
11:38
it depends. I mean it really really depends. That's definitely
11:41
hard to explain because is there a hierarchy? No, remember,
11:47
because she has well, it's no hierarchy. Question is the
11:50
person with you the most experienced in the bop and command?
11:54
Or how does it work when you're in there with
11:56
another person there's only two of you? Is there someone
11:58
that's in charge? Thomas? I'm going to say, they're going
12:02
to say, shoe how it is the bop, how it
12:05
is at the jail? They say, shoe is in charge?
12:09
Question okay, Thomas. But then with Shoe one or somebody
12:13
with more time, like if I have more time with
12:15
Shoe one, how are you going to be in charge
12:18
when you have more time? It depends. But then again
12:21
on non custody, so it's all different dynamics when it
12:24
comes to that. But they will say shoe one is
12:27
usually in charge if you bid for shoe one. If
12:30
you did a bid, they'll say shoe one is in
12:32
charge of the shoe question. Okay, and you were shoe
12:37
too that day, Thomas, I was shoe too that day. Yes,
12:40
question okay, But because you had seniority, is that, Thomas?
12:45
It doesn't play out like that. It doesn't play like
12:47
that in a black and white sense. It doesn't play.
12:49
Speaker 2: Out like that.
12:50
Speaker 1: You're both equally responsible because she's Shoe two and I'm
12:53
Shoe two. I mean, it doesn't And on paper it
12:57
plays out that she's Shoe one, she's in charge, and
13:00
I'm shoe too, But it really doesn't play out like that, redacted.
13:03
So you're both serving the same role, Thomas, We're both
13:06
serving the same roles, especially on morning watch. Question okay, question,
13:13
same duties and responsibilities, Thomas, same duties and responsibilities. Well,
13:19
because you can't do one thing without the other. Question okay,
13:22
because pretty much everything you do requires two people. Is
13:25
that why Thomas supposed to?
13:27
Speaker 2: Yes?
13:27
Speaker 1: Question okay, Thomas, Yes.
13:31
Speaker 2: Question.
13:31
Speaker 1: And did you replace redacted? Thomas? Redacted? Redacted? Did you
13:37
replace him at twelve am? Thomas? Okay, I guess redacted?
13:41
Speaker 2: Yes.
13:41
Speaker 1: If I can't remember if they said it was redacted, yeah, okay,
13:44
I couldn't remember. It was somebody I had to replace.
13:50
I don't remember who it was. Question, do you remember
13:53
having any interaction with redacted when you placed him. Thomas,
13:56
I mean redacted is like me. He's both non custody
14:00
so we work. He is trust fund like how I'm
14:03
trust fund. He's a material handler specialist. Question Okay, like me,
14:07
so I'll probably I couldn't remember the exact communications that
14:11
I started. I probably said what's up, smacked him on
14:14
the back of the head Redacted. Any kind of conversation
14:17
question Thomas, No, I really don't remember. Question Okay, did
14:23
you speak with him in regard to Epstein at all?
14:25
Speaker 2: Question no? Or answer no.
14:27
Speaker 1: Question anything to do with like Reyes leaving the Epstein
14:31
being alone? Thomas, no.
14:33
Speaker 2: Question.
14:34
Speaker 1: What conversation did you have with Noel during your ship
14:37
with regard to Epstein on August tenth? Answer none? Question
14:41
you don't remember talking about him? Thomas, I don't remember
14:45
talking about him. Question do you recall if anyone else
14:48
was present at any time at all in the shoe
14:51
on August tenth, twenty nineteen, between the hours of twelve
14:55
am and six thirty am. Thomas, I'm sure a lieutenant
14:58
came up. I couldn't tell you when I'm sure lieutenant
15:01
came up once or I'm sure the lieutenant came up
15:04
redacted And who would have been the lieutenant that would
15:08
have come up? Thomas, Lieutenant redacted? Question Okay, and do
15:14
you remember that interaction at all when the lieutenant came up?
15:18
Speaker 2: Answer?
15:18
Speaker 1: No, not really, question no Thomas.
15:22
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
15:23
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here and
15:25
in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
15:27
pick up where we left off. All the information that
15:30
goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
15:34
What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
15:38
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where
15:41
he left off with the Michael Thomas deposition with the
15:45
OIG inspectors.
15:48
Speaker 2: Question.
15:50
Speaker 1: Would that have been probably around like four am? Thomas.
15:54
It's sporadic. There's no set particular time that she had
15:57
to be there by three or two or one, anything
16:00
like that. But I'm sure during the course of the day,
16:03
during the course of the night, Lieutenant redacted came by
16:05
the shoe mister redacted, Okay, Thomas, she always walks by. Question,
16:12
do you remember if any other CEO came by, maybe
16:15
around like five thirty am. Thomas. It's supposed to be
16:18
another CEO that comes on at six to two. I
16:22
don't recall them ever coming up, it says redacted. But
16:26
it's as you can see, it's a six to two post.
16:29
But I don't around five. I don't remember any other
16:32
I don't remember any other CEO coming in, mister redacted. Okay,
16:36
what about like a breakfast cart? Who would provide that?
16:39
How would that be done?
16:41
Speaker 2: Thomas?
16:42
Speaker 1: Well, the breakfast cart that they push into the hallway,
16:45
I wouldn't see the person down in the food service.
16:47
I mean they pushed down the hallway and ring the bell,
16:50
and I don't remember who brought the food cart up.
16:53
But the food cart came up, and then we seen
16:56
in through our peripherals outside the hallway.
17:01
Speaker 2: Question.
17:01
Speaker 1: And then someone Thomas, it's through a double door.
17:05
Speaker 2: Question.
17:05
Speaker 1: And then you go and you get it Thomas.
17:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:09
Speaker 1: Then we go and retrieve it and we bring it
17:11
inside the shoe.
17:12
Speaker 2: Yes. Question.
17:13
Speaker 1: And do you remember who it was that actually retrieved
17:16
it that morning? Thomas, I really don't remember. I think
17:19
she did.
17:20
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't remember exactly who did it. Question.
17:23
Speaker 1: Okay, so the only person that you remember that entered
17:26
the shoe was redacted Thomas yes.
17:29
Speaker 2: Question.
17:30
Speaker 1: Okay, what was her purpose for visiting the shoe on
17:33
August tenth, Mister Thomas, she visited all the housing units
17:38
operations Lieutenant. She walks around the building throughout the night.
17:41
Question part of her duties and responsibilities. Thomas, Yeah, part
17:46
of her duties. Yes question, Okay, can you just briefly
17:49
explain what the process of entering and exiting the shoe?
17:53
Speaker 2: Thomas?
17:53
Speaker 1: Oh, wow, I can't even remember the door. You call
17:56
for the door, it's the twenty. You call for the
17:59
door to be opened. I can't remember the exact number
18:02
of the door. You call for the door to be opened,
18:05
they ring the bell, you call for the door to
18:06
be opened. Then you have an inner door that's locked.
18:09
You unlock that, you call for the person. The person
18:12
comes in. If it's a warden or anything like that,
18:15
it's usually a book that they have to sign saying
18:18
that someone entered into, that they entered in, or whatever
18:21
the case may be. They entered in, and then you
18:24
open the door. Question. Okay, so you initially said that
18:28
they call who Thomas, Well, one of the staff members
18:32
inside call for the door. So me or Noel had
18:36
to call for the door to come in. Question. So
18:39
someone comes at the outer door, the first door someone's
18:43
got to go through, they call you guys in the
18:45
shoe Thomas, No, they ring the bell. Question they ring
18:48
the bell, Thomas. If it's the outer door, it's the
18:51
outer door. Whichever number it is the outer door, you
18:54
ring the bell. It signals somebody's at the door. You
18:57
look and you see, I see, I can see and
19:00
get your name, sir. You see whoever it is.
19:03
Speaker 2: You call for the door.
19:05
Speaker 1: Look to see if the individual see redacted covering at
19:08
the door. I call for the door. He comes in
19:11
the door. Then there's another door that's locked. You unlock
19:14
that door and they come in, and then you lock
19:17
that door back.
19:18
Speaker 2: Question.
19:19
Speaker 1: So my question is though on the outer door, who
19:21
do you call the control center? Thomas, Yeah, you call
19:24
the control center. Question okay, And then does someone come
19:28
from the control center? Thomas looks down at it. Well,
19:32
the control center verifies who it is at the door,
19:34
and then they open the door. Question okay, And is
19:37
there like a camera there? Thomas, Yeah, there's a camera
19:41
in the hallway redacted. Okay, great, So control center allows
19:45
them to open the door. First, do they notify the
19:48
people in the shoe that someone's coming in Thomas, We
19:51
notify them that someone's coming in question. Okay Thomas, because
19:55
we call for the door. Question, so they ring the bell,
19:58
you call control Thomas, can call control center. Question okay,
20:05
And then they come to that. And then does control
20:08
center have any involvement with them when you said you
20:11
unlocked the door Thomas. No, Then it's another key for
20:14
another door, the inner door. Question okay? And is it
20:18
just the people that are in the shoe that can
20:20
allow someone to enter and exit Thomas for that inner door? Yes,
20:25
question okay? And who was it? How are the keys worked?
20:29
Who maintains control of those keys? Mister Thomas? On for
20:33
the morning watch shift, there's one control key and usually
20:36
the number one person holds it. It's the key that
20:39
they never leave the thing. I can't remember exactly what
20:43
keys are on there? Question when you say on there,
20:47
where are they maintained? Thomas? They're maintained down in the
20:50
control center question okay. But are they like hung up
20:53
somewhere Thomas? Yeah, they're hung up on like a dashboard
20:56
that says control question. Wait, I'm sorry, so I'm not confused.
21:02
There's a key that you guys utilized to open that
21:05
door that's in the control center. Thomas, Yeah, that utilizes. Well,
21:09
the control center has the master key for all the doors.
21:13
Speaker 2: Question.
21:13
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but the control center opens the outer door
21:17
and then the inner door. Doesn't the people that are
21:19
assigned to the shoe use the key Thomas. Yeah, that's
21:23
the master key that never leaves the shoe.
21:25
Speaker 2: Question.
21:25
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the key I'm talking about. Where is
21:28
that key maintained?
21:30
Speaker 2: Answer?
21:31
Speaker 1: Usually the number one on shoe will have like on
21:34
their person Thomas, Yeah, on the person. Usually, shoe number
21:39
one holds that on the person the whole time.
21:42
Speaker 2: Question.
21:42
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's not hung up somewhere Thomas, No, it's
21:45
not hung up somewhere. The shoe one holds it on
21:48
them at all times.
21:50
Speaker 2: Question.
21:50
Speaker 1: Okay, and do you recall on August ninth it was
21:53
Noel Thomas. I'm sure. I'm sure she had it. I'm
21:56
sure she had it. Question it was Noel then, Thomas,
22:01
because I had the oh, door keys and cuff key,
22:04
or if I had my cuff key.
22:07
Speaker 2: Question.
22:08
Speaker 1: So, if you have the door keys and the cuff keys,
22:10
usually the other person is the one that has the
22:13
outer key. Thomas it rotates during the course of the day,
22:17
it can rotate or anything like that. Question Okay, Thomas,
22:22
when during the day when somebody's feeding or somebody's doing this,
22:26
and you the person would take this key, I'm going
22:30
to go feed this row or I'm about to go
22:32
do this. So if somebody is doing law library, it
22:34
can rotate. But during the course of the night, usually
22:38
show one has one key and then I come up
22:41
with eventually grab another key redacted. Question Okay, so on
22:46
August tenth, you said you only recall redacted. Do you
22:49
recall who allowed her to enter? Who used the key? Thomas,
22:53
I don't remember. Question No Thomas, No, I don't remember
22:58
who popped the door for her to come in? Question
23:01
Okay Thomas, it had to be either me or Noel.
23:04
It couldn't have been nobody else. Question And she was
23:07
an authorized visitor Thomas who question redacted? Was an authorized visitor? Thomas?
23:14
Speaker 2: Yeah? Question? And were you with redacted?
23:17
Speaker 1: You or Noel? Was with redacted during her entire visit? Thomas?
23:21
Speaker 2: Yes?
23:21
Speaker 1: Question Okay, did a redacted ever approach Epstein's cell? Mister Thomas,
23:26
I don't know, I don't remember. I don't remember. Question
23:30
you don't recall do you recall any conversation with redacted
23:33
with regard to Epstein Thomas, No question. She didn't ask
23:38
like how he's doing or anything like that. Thomas, No,
23:41
I don't question. And then who would have been allowed
23:44
or allowed her to exit the shoe? Thomas, me or
23:48
either me or Noel?
23:49
Speaker 2: Question? Okay?
23:50
Speaker 1: And is that the same process you would have to
23:52
use a key to open it? Thomas. You have to
23:55
use a key to open the inner door. Then you
23:57
open the inner door, secure the inner door, and then
23:59
you call the control center to pop the outer door.
24:02
Question Okay, Thomas, exactly what it's called?
24:07
Speaker 2: Question?
24:08
Speaker 1: And do you recall how long she was in there? Thomas,
24:12
I don't recall. Question okay. But she was the Thomas
24:18
operations lieutenant supervisor. She was the operations lieutenant, mister Thomas
24:22
Thomas lieutenant. Question, which means that she was the supervisor
24:27
in the shoe on August tenth, from twelve am until
24:31
Thomas she was the I wouldn't say supervisor. Well, she
24:35
was supervising the building on August tenth, yes, question, and
24:39
with responsibilities for the shoe Thomas, responsibilities for the shoe
24:43
and her responsibilities for the institution. Question, do you recall
24:48
having any other conversation with redacted during your shift on
24:51
August tenth, twenty nineteen, Thomas, No question, by phone, call
24:56
or email or anything. Thomas, no question. And did Redacted
25:01
at any time ever provide you with special instruction with
25:04
regard to Epstein? Thomas, no question, and again, never told
25:08
you that he was required davisselmet Thomas, no question. It
25:12
didn't come up the fact that Reyes left the day
25:15
before and Epstein was without one Thomas, no question. That
25:20
was just not communicated. How about Lieutenant redacted?
25:23
Speaker 2: Who is that?
25:24
Speaker 1: Thomas, Lieutenant at MCC question was did Lieutenant redacted or
25:29
replaced redacted at approximately six am? Are you able to
25:33
tell from looking at this roster, mister Thomas? Well, this
25:38
one says he came in at eight to four or something.
25:42
He gets interrupted. Yeah, they were two hours earlier, Thomas, Yeah,
25:47
two hours yeah, but yeah, I remember seeing him. Question Okay,
25:50
do you recall having any interaction with Lieutenant redacted prior
25:54
to six thirty three am on August tenth, twenty nineteen. Thomas,
25:58
no question. And did Lieutenant redacted visit the shoe at all?
26:03
On August tenth, twenty nineteen, prior to six thirty three
26:06
am Thomas, No, not that I remember. Question okay, and
26:11
no communications though, Thomas, no question, And Lieutenant redacted didn't
26:16
provide you with any special instruction with regard to Epstein Thomas,
26:20
no question. And he did not provide you any instruction
26:23
with regard to Epstein having a cell mate Thomas, no question.
26:27
At any time even prior to that, Thomas, no question. Okay,
26:34
did the control center, R and D or anyone else
26:36
call the shoe on August tenth, twenty nineteen about he
26:41
gets cut off by Thomas, that would be gone by
26:43
the time I come in question, All of those people
26:46
would have been gone, Thomas, Yes, question in the control
26:50
center Thomas, No, not the control center that would be there,
26:54
but R and D would be gone redacted. All right,
26:57
So let's say I did control center or anyone else
27:00
call the Shoe on August tenth, twenty nineteen about Epstein's
27:03
cellmate leaving or the need for Epstein to have another
27:07
cell mate assigned? Thomas, No, that would have been done
27:10
prior to my shift.
27:12
Speaker 2: Question.
27:12
Speaker 1: Okay, but not during your shift, Thomas, not during the midnight. No,
27:17
that would have been done prior. All right, folks, we're
27:20
gonna wrap up right here and in the next episode
27:22
dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we
27:24
left off. All of the information that goes with this
27:28
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
27:32
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
27:36
this episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off
27:39
with Michael Thomas and his interview with the OIG Inspectors.
27:44
Speaker 2: Question. All right, so let's say.
27:46
Speaker 1: I did Control Center or anyone else call the shoe
27:49
on August tenth, twenty nineteen about EPSTEIN cellmate leaving or
27:53
the need for EPSTEIN to have another cell mate assigned. Thomas. No,
27:57
that would have been done prior to my shift. Okay,
28:00
but not during your shift, Thomas. Not during the midnight. No,
28:04
that would have been done prior. And as you guys
28:07
can tell, this is a bit disjointed and Thomas is
28:11
being very very coy. Thomas, not during the midnight. No,
28:18
that would have been done prior. Question. All right, So,
28:21
being that you've been in the BP since twenty seventeen, Thomas,
28:26
two thousand and seven. Question, Sorry, two thousand and seven
28:31
That's what I meant. I apologize in that Epstein was
28:35
required to have a cell mate after Reyes left on
28:38
August ninth. What should have happened? Who should have taken
28:41
appropriate action? Can you just kind of walk me through
28:44
how that process should have taken place, Thomas? I mean,
28:48
by my knowledge, like you said, from being in for.
28:51
Speaker 2: Work, if he would have left, it would have.
28:54
Speaker 1: Been communicated to the officers via R and D that
28:57
somebody had left. And how would have R and D
29:02
would have been the first people do notify Thomas? Yes,
29:05
R and D would be Yeah, R and D would
29:08
be the first people to notify that an inmate has
29:11
been released Thomas, taken off count?
29:14
Speaker 2: Been released? Taken off count? Question? Okay?
29:17
Speaker 1: And then who would R and D contact? Thomas? So
29:22
R and D would contact both control center and he
29:26
gets cut off the lieutenant Thomas.
29:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:30
Speaker 1: Question would they at all contact the shoe or the
29:34
place where the inmate was being released from? Thomas?
29:37
Speaker 2: Yeah?
29:37
Speaker 1: Well, R and D would contact shoe and let them
29:40
know that somebody had been released, mister redacted. So in
29:44
this case, Reyes was released on August ninth, should have
29:47
they called all three? They should call the control Center
29:51
or R and D should have contacted. Looks like Lieutenant
29:54
redacted or potentially redacted, as well as Control Center and
29:58
the Shoe staff. Mister Tom Thomas. In a perfect world,
30:01
R and D, we'll call Lieutenant's office, call control, and
30:05
call the Shoe. I'm sure somebody had to call the
30:08
Shoe and let them know that their base count had changed. Question, Okay, Thomas.
30:13
One way or another, somebody called control to let them
30:16
know that the base count had changed.
30:18
Speaker 2: Who did they call?
30:19
Speaker 1: I don't know, but during that because the courts closed
30:23
at eight question, Okay Thomas, at the latest. Yeah, I
30:28
believe it's eight pm, So somebody called and let them know.
30:31
R and D got the first call that there would
30:33
be somebody gone off your count question Okay, So it
30:37
wouldn't be like they called the opsoleueutenant and the oppsoleutenant
30:41
would then call the Shoe. R and D typically would
30:43
actually call all three Thomas usually, but I have been
30:48
when R and D had called all three. I've been
30:50
here when the Control Center have called the Shoe and
30:54
let them know, Yo, your base count has changed. Such
30:57
and such has been released or such a bunch has
31:00
been moved to a different housing unit.
31:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:03
Speaker 1: Question okay Thomas, but usually you got a call either
31:06
from R and D or control center. Question not the
31:10
oppso lieutenant Thomas. I mean I've been in when the
31:14
lieutenant called, but not not typically the oppso liueutenant. Question
31:19
all right, so it's typically control center Thomas. Typically your
31:23
control center or R and D will call and let
31:25
you know that their base count have changed. Question, and
31:29
you've been present when that's actually taken place? Thomas, Yeah,
31:33
I've been present when that's taken place. Question in the
31:37
shoe Thomas, Yeah, I've been present in the shoe when
31:40
it's taken place. Question Okay, So how soon after so
31:45
Epstein is required to have a cell mate? How soon
31:48
after Rey's departure should have Epstein been assigned to cell mate? Thomas? Well,
31:53
that comes from the Shoe lieutenant and from operations and
31:55
the staff member that had to be there. Question, So,
32:01
who who had the responsibility to fill Epstein's cell mate requirement?
32:06
Who had the responsibility to place Epstein with a new
32:09
cell may Thomas. I don't know off hand. I don't
32:12
know off hand who had the responsibility, but it had
32:15
to come from either the Shoe lieutenant. I would say first,
32:19
since he's a high profile, I would say from the
32:21
Shoe lieutenant question, Okay, and were you We touched on
32:25
this before, but in this specific instance, were you there, Thomas?
32:30
I wasn't there. Question, so, would have you if you
32:34
were there, would have been authorized to assign him a
32:37
new cell mate? Thomas? If I was there and it
32:41
came down from higher ups to assign somebody, Yes, if
32:44
I was there, yes, question So if somebody else told
32:48
you to Thomas? Yeah, if somebody told me, if the
32:51
Shoe lieutenant told me that, oh listen, he needs this and.
32:55
Speaker 2: Such like that, yeah, just go like that.
32:58
Speaker 1: Because he's high I wouldn't just put somebody in his
33:00
cell question. Okay, what about Shoe staff that weren't in
33:04
forumed by higher ups?
33:06
Speaker 2: Shoe staff there could.
33:07
Speaker 1: Have they assigned Epstein with a new cell mate, even temporarily, Thomas.
33:12
Speaker 2: Could they have question authorized? Thomas?
33:16
Speaker 1: Were they question? I meant that theoretically they could have,
33:20
as in, like, you can do anything, Thomas, you can
33:23
do anything you want. He gets cut off. But were
33:26
they authorized to have Thomas cuts him off?
33:30
Speaker 2: No?
33:30
Speaker 1: Not with a high profile. No, I don't think they're authorized.
33:34
Question Okay, Thomas, I don't know offhand, but I wouldn't
33:37
say from my knowledge for being, I wouldn't say that
33:40
they're authorized. It would have to come from somebody else.
33:44
Speaker 2: Question.
33:44
Speaker 1: Okay, so the people that are working in the Shoe,
33:47
what action should have they taken as soon as they
33:50
were aware that Epstein's cell mate had left?
33:52
Speaker 2: Thomas? What are we talking about? Question?
33:55
Speaker 1: So, if they're, you know, supposed to be conducting counts,
33:58
supposed to be conducting rounds, as soon as they notice, Hey,
34:02
Reyes is gone, Epstein has required Davis cell mate, is
34:05
it their responsibility to notify someone, Hey, get on the
34:09
phone and call the ops lieutenant, Control Center or whomever.
34:13
Thomas I would call. I would call somebody, call somebody
34:16
and let them know Operations Epstein needs a cell mate. Question?
34:20
Speaker 2: Right, so he gets cut off.
34:22
Speaker 1: Now by Thomas, Shoe lieutenant if he's there, Thomas, or
34:26
excuse me? Question So the Shoe lieutenant, Thomas, if the
34:30
first person he gets cut off has gone on leave, Thomas,
34:34
If the Shoe lieutenant has gone on leave, call the
34:37
operations lieutenant.
34:38
Speaker 2: Question.
34:38
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, now we're going to talk a little
34:41
bit more about what about rounds and counts? So the
34:44
cell count what officially what is that? Is it obtaining
34:48
the official number of inmates in the housing unit?
34:50
Speaker 2: Thomas?
34:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, question, okay, And can you just explain the process.
34:55
You touched on it before, but now can you actually explain,
34:59
like so when you're in the shoe, for instance, and
35:01
your if he gets cut off, what timeframe.
35:04
Speaker 2: Are we talking about? Question?
35:06
Speaker 1: So your time frame? Let's talk about when you're specifically there.
35:10
You're there from twelve am to eight am, correct, Thomas, yes, question,
35:14
And you are there for both August ninth and August tenth.
35:18
When should you have been conducting the accounts and how
35:22
should they have been conducted? Thomas. How it happens is
35:25
one officer goes up, you have the door key to
35:28
the grills, the outside grill. You open the outside grill.
35:32
One officer walks around, count verified, do one count. Then
35:36
the other officer go around, count, and then you all
35:39
combine your numbers at the end. You can bind your
35:41
numbers at the end of each tier and then you
35:44
tally up the numbers at the end. Most people write
35:47
them down on a piece of paper on your hand
35:49
back of the council it. It could be a number
35:51
of different various where people will write them down, but
35:55
one person goes around count, the next person goes around count.
35:59
You all say tell each other the number I got fifteen,
36:02
I got fifteen, boom. Then you move on to the
36:04
next tier. Do the same form for all six tiers,
36:08
and then you tally up the numbers at the end.
36:11
Speaker 2: Question.
36:11
Speaker 1: Okay, So when one staff member is counting the inmates
36:14
on each tier, Thomas cuts them off. They're the one
36:18
standing at the grill. Question at the grill and can
36:21
you just explain what the grill is? Thomas, It's just
36:24
the door. Question Is the door closed or open? Thomas
36:28
on Typically it's closed, but some people leave it open.
36:31
Question Okay, So one person remains outside of the tier
36:35
basically at the door Thomas at the door with the key. Question,
36:39
and then one staff member goes around checks on all
36:42
the inmates. When and how do they check the inmates? Thomas?
36:46
They look inside if it's covered, they look inside a window,
36:50
look inside of the glass. I can't tell you the
36:52
diameter of it, but you look inside the glass and
36:55
you see where the inmates are. Question, Now the twelve
36:59
am is there account that's supposed to be done at
37:01
twelve am and three am Thomas twelve three and five.
37:05
Question All am, Thomas, all am?
37:08
Speaker 2: Yes.
37:08
Speaker 1: Question and during that time, when you look at the
37:11
window of the door, what is it you're supposed to see?
37:15
Question you verify flesh? Make sure you can see somebody,
37:18
see somebody's skin. Question do you need to see a movement? Thomas, No,
37:23
because they could be asleep. Question does that mean you're
37:26
supposed to hit the door or anything? Make sure Thomas
37:29
No gets interrupted. See if they're all good Thomas, they're
37:33
still human beings. No, they're asleep at twelve midnight. Some
37:37
are up playing chess, some are writing letters, some are asleep.
37:40
You don't hit the door to make sure they're moving.
37:43
Question do you shine a flashlight in Thomas? Some have
37:47
a flashlight?
37:47
Speaker 2: You have? He gets cut off.
37:49
Speaker 1: No do you Thomas, Yeah, I'll have a flashlight and
37:52
I'll just flash and see live breathing skin. They could
37:56
be under the blanket or anything like that. Question Okay,
37:59
And is the purpose to make what's the purpose Thomas,
38:03
to make sure nobody escaped and see a body inside?
38:06
Question a live body question or answer? We have a
38:10
live body question okay, a live body okay? And that
38:13
is the process in the shoe, correct, like, not only
38:16
in the institution, but in the shoe. Thomas, that's the
38:19
process in the institution question right, including the shoe Thomas, Yeah,
38:27
question okay. And when conducting counts, do CEOs have to
38:30
speak with inmates? Thomas, We don't have to. Question. No, Now,
38:33
explain to me what's around? Question or answer? Same process question,
38:39
same Thomas, same process question. So every thirty minutes you
38:43
actually have to take account as well, Thomas, No, you
38:46
don't have to take the count. The same process without
38:48
the count, the counting of numbers. You just walk around
38:51
and verify somebody's inside, mister addacted. Just like you said
38:56
with the count, each one has to go around and
38:58
see if their numbers match up. Thomas. No, you don't
39:01
have to round and see if the numbers match up. No,
39:04
you just verify that there's a body inside.
39:07
Speaker 2: Question.
39:07
Speaker 1: But does somebody have to stand at the grill and
39:10
other person walk down and have to switch places and
39:13
do the same thing Thomas, Yes, question both ways, Thomas, yes,
39:18
question okay. So it's the same process aside from Thomas,
39:22
aside from the count question. Okay, So it's identical other
39:27
than you're actually counting during the count, Thomas, the same.
39:31
Speaker 2: Exactly what you just said. All right, folks, we're.
39:34
Speaker 1: Gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode
39:36
dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we
39:38
left off. All of the information that goes with this
39:41
episode can be found in the description box.