Latest / NO FILTER / Congress hasn_t _held back the king_ while Trump takes powers that aren_t his_ Economist(MP3_160K)

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Congress hasn_t _held back the king_ while Trump takes powers that aren_t his_ Economist(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

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  Speaker 1: Joining US Financial Times columnists and provots of King's College, Cambridge,
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  Speaker 1: Jillian Tet, Professor of economics and public Policy at the
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  Speaker 1: University of Michigan, Justin Wolfers, and NBC News senior business
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  Speaker 1: correspondent Christine Romans. First, Christine, I want to ask you
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  Speaker 1: about the markets. Yeah, they initially reacted quite positively to
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  Speaker 1: this news.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did because, look, it was the first real
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  Speaker 2: challenge to the president's trade war. Trade war that markets
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  Speaker 2: don't like, that business doesn't like, right, And this was
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  Speaker 2: a case was brought by states and also by small
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  Speaker 2: businesses who said, look, you don't have the authority, mister President,
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  Speaker 2: to do this, and it's too disruptive to our business.
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  Speaker 2: And this three panel, three judge panel, a bipartisan panel,
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  Speaker 2: by the way, Reagan, Obama and Trump appointed judges, three judges,
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  Speaker 2: so really important there. They said, no, you don't have
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  Speaker 2: the authority to do this, and Wall Street really liked that.
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  Speaker 1: But the reaction I.
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  Speaker 2: Think has sort of come back down to earth a
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  Speaker 2: little way is because there still is a trade fight here.
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  Speaker 2: Donald Trump still really loves tariffs, and he could go
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  Speaker 2: ahead and use other authorities that he has successfully used
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  Speaker 2: for like steel aluminum, he could try to put tariffs
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  Speaker 2: on in different ways as well. This also there was,
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  Speaker 2: in a weird twisted way, some certainty July ninth, when
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  Speaker 2: his big pause of those so called reciprocal tariffs was
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  Speaker 2: going to expire, and they said they'd have all these
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  Speaker 2: trade deals done by then. Well, now that's kind of
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  Speaker 2: up in the air as well. So there's still a
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  Speaker 2: lot of uncertainty and maybe maybe the White House doesn't
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  Speaker 2: have the leverage it thought it did and these trade negotiations,
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  Speaker 2: and so Wall Street kind of came off of its
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  Speaker 2: early enthusiasm.
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  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the EU Jillian, I mean, that was
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  Speaker 1: the next big trade deal that Donald Trump was going after.
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  Speaker 1: He initially said one deadline, then he moved that deadline
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  Speaker 1: back a bit, citing work with the United or the
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  Speaker 1: European Union to actually get to a deal. What is
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  Speaker 1: the European Commission, the executive arm of the EU do,
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  Speaker 1: now that there was this court order.
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  Speaker 3: Well, this timing is extraordinary because the European Union leaders
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  Speaker 3: have been debating in recent days whether they should act
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  Speaker 3: top like the Chinese and simply basically respond to bullying
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  Speaker 3: with trying to face him down, or whether they should
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  Speaker 3: be more like the UK and try and dance around
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  Speaker 3: Washington and get them more on their side and cut
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  Speaker 3: some kind of deal. Now that Trump's trade tarts have
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  Speaker 3: been turned down by the courts, they're likely to actually
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  Speaker 3: either simply stall, as you say, or really stand up
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  Speaker 3: to him and say no. Now, the danger of all
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  Speaker 3: this is that Trump has, as we know, a pretty
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  Speaker 3: fragile ego. He tell us to respond to losses by
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  Speaker 3: doubling down and being even more aggressive. The fact that
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  Speaker 3: people are calling him Taco Trump or with chickens out,
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  Speaker 3: which was one of the acronyms one of my colleagues
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  Speaker 3: at the Financial Times first started writing about, has really
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  Speaker 3: got under his skin. Donald Trump, of course likes to
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  Speaker 3: call other people names, not how people call him names.
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  Speaker 1: And so there is a danger.
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  Speaker 3: Now that he simply lashes out, that he invokes other
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  Speaker 3: types of trade laws to try and impose his plan,
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  Speaker 3: or that he simply ignores the courts. At some point
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  Speaker 3: we just no. So there's a lot more uncertainty, But
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  Speaker 3: certainly for the European Union right now, there's a very
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  Speaker 3: strong incentive to stall and to keep stalling.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I wish now that you're talking about taco.
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  Speaker 1: I wish that I had the forethought to screen grab
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  Speaker 1: the front of the Drudge Report right now. It's an
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  Speaker 1: AI generated image of Donald Trump wearing a king of tacos,
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  Speaker 1: wearing a taco suit and a taco crown worth taking
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  Speaker 1: a look at, obviously trying to taunt him. Justin let
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  Speaker 1: me ask you about the normal rules of the game. Here.
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  Speaker 1: Part of the reason this Trade Commission or this trade
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  Speaker 1: court said Donald Trump doesn't have this authority is because
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  Speaker 1: normally the authority to levy tariffs, not in a time
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  Speaker 1: of an emergency, is within Congress. I think it's notable
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  Speaker 1: that it's the courts that have to assert Congress's authority.
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  Speaker 1: Congress itself, other than a few lawmakers, have not done
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  Speaker 1: so right.
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  Speaker 4: So the president is not born with the right to
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  Speaker 4: do this.
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  Speaker 5: Congress gave it to him, and so the first best
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  Speaker 5: thing would be if we had a grown up Congress
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  Speaker 5: who took their role seriously. Instead, this has been the
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  Speaker 5: most passive Congress I can ever remember. In fact, as
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  Speaker 5: far as I can tell, they've done nothing about anything
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  Speaker 5: so far, but they certainly haven't held back the king.
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  Speaker 5: So what Trump has done is very aggressively tried to
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  Speaker 5: take powers that would normally belong to Congress, and the
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  Speaker 5: courts have smacked him down, Katie, I just got noticed.
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  Speaker 5: Apparently an hour ago, a DC District court also ruled
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  Speaker 5: on the same set of issues, issuing another preliminary injunction.
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  Speaker 5: So we've now had two federal courts within twenty four
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  Speaker 5: hours rule that this use of the emergency powers is illegal.
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  Speaker 4: And to be clear, it's utterly obvious.
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  Speaker 5: The so called emergency was that we had imbalanced trade.
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  Speaker 5: It turns out every country around the world has imbalanced trade.
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  Speaker 5: It turns out the United States has had it in
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  Speaker 5: every single year of its existence. So the idea that
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  Speaker 5: all of a sudden, it was a national emergency in
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  Speaker 5: twenty twenty five but no other year saw seems absurd
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  Speaker 5: on its face.
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  Speaker 1: But I do understand if you want to make the
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  Speaker 1: argument that there are national security concerns and there are
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  Speaker 1: some things we do need to manufacture. Here, we've got
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  Speaker 1: to get control over some of our critical supply chains,
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  Speaker 1: technology supply chains, you know, steel supply chains, whatever, because
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  Speaker 1: that's important for our national security. I get that justin
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  Speaker 1: But if you want to do that, and you want
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  Speaker 1: to argue that is this the way you go about it,
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  Speaker 1: no is there to do about it.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a very clear distinction here that's worth bearing
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  Speaker 5: in mind. So what Trump was doing was trying to
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  Speaker 5: beat up on whole countries. You know, China's a bad guy,
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  Speaker 5: The United Kingdom's a bad guy, Europe's a bad guy.
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  Speaker 5: Even the herd and McDonald Islands were bad penguins. That's
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  Speaker 5: what was rulely llegal. Now it turns out there's a
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  Speaker 5: lot of other trade authorities, including specific authorities around national security,
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  Speaker 5: that the president can has and does use. For instance,
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  Speaker 5: there are currently tariffs on steel and aluminum. Believe is
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  Speaker 5: how Americans say it got to rate okay, great aluminium.
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  Speaker 5: Those tariffs are still in place because they're a national
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  Speaker 5: security concern, and they went through a process of making
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  Speaker 5: the case, the sort of process Congress laid down in
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  Speaker 5: order to make that case.
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  Speaker 4: So we're going to move from these country.
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  Speaker 5: Specific tariffs instead to looking at specific industries, which I
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  Speaker 5: think is at the very least going to lead the
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  Speaker 5: present to be a little bit more precise in what
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  Speaker 5: he's doing. Having said that, there are some authorities still
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  Speaker 5: where he can go and clob a whole countries. There's
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  Speaker 5: one reason allowed to, and I wouldn't be surprised if
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  Speaker 5: he did it this week.
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  Speaker 4: He can levy.
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  Speaker 5: Tariffs of up to fifteen percent on countries for up
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  Speaker 5: to one hundred and fifty days. After that, he'd have
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  Speaker 5: to go back to Congress, which he's not been very
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  Speaker 5: fond of doing.
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  Speaker 1: Let me play Caroline Lovett at the White House today,
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  Speaker 1: echoing what we've heard from this administration about individual or
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  Speaker 1: groups of judges.
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  Speaker 6: Last night, the Trump administration faced another example of judicial overreach.
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  Speaker 6: Three judges of the US Court of International Trade disagreed
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  Speaker 6: and brazenly abuse their judicial power to usurp the authority
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  Speaker 6: of President Trump to stop him from carrying out the
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  Speaker 6: mandate that the American people gave him. The courts should
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  Speaker 6: have no role here. There is a troubling and dangerous
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  Speaker 6: trend of unelected judges inserting themselves into the presidential decision
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  Speaker 6: making process.
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  Speaker 1: It seems that they want this battle, Christine. They want
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  Speaker 1: to push the courts. They want to force the Supreme
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  Speaker 1: Court to get involved in these cases. I'm sure there
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  Speaker 1: are people within the administration who understand what authorities the
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  Speaker 1: president has and what authorities he does not have. I
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  Speaker 1: know that they probably have gone through the various rules
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  Speaker 1: that he could levy tariffs on. I'm sure I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to give them a benefit of doubt. I think they
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  Speaker 1: know this, but I also think these individual fights that
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  Speaker 1: they know are going to get held up in courts
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  Speaker 1: are fights that they want to have because they want
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  Speaker 1: to go to the Supreme Court, the same Supreme Court
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  Speaker 1: that gave him unilateral authority just a few years ago
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  Speaker 1: with the presidential immunity case.
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  Speaker 2: You've already heard them. The you know, the allies of
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  Speaker 2: the president today is calling this a globalist, pro trade,
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  Speaker 2: you know, pro importer kind of.
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  Speaker 1: That's not what they're they're ruling.
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  Speaker 2: They're ruling authority and they're ruling on the law. And
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  Speaker 2: I'll go back again, this is a bipartisan, really nerdy
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  Speaker 2: trade focused court with Reagan, Obama and Trump appointee there.
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  Speaker 2: This is not this is not These are not DNC
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  Speaker 2: lawyers here that they're that they're fighting against. It is
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  Speaker 2: a third co equal branch of government.
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  Speaker 1: You know what, I do want to get back to
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  Speaker 1: taco because I think it's it's worth lingering.
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  Speaker 2: On the taco trade.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because the president, I mean, Gillian, you mentioned this.
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  Speaker 1: The President doesn't like this, doesn't like this idea. He
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  Speaker 1: was asked about it yesterday, and I think we should
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  Speaker 1: play how we responded, mister President Walster.
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  Speaker 2: Analysts have coined a new term called the taco trade.
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  Speaker 6: They're saying Trump always chickens out on your tear of threats,
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  Speaker 6: and that's why markets are higher this week.
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  Speaker 1: What's your response to.
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  Speaker 4: That, I kick out, check it out.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, then I check it out.
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  Speaker 7: I've never heard that. You mean because I reduced China
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  Speaker 7: from one hundred and forty five percent that I set
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  Speaker 7: down to one hundred and then down to another number,
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  Speaker 7: and I said, you have to open up your whole country.
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  Speaker 7: And because I gave the European Union a fifty percent
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  Speaker 7: tax tariff, we had a dead country. We had a
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  Speaker 7: country people didn't think it was going to survive. And
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  Speaker 7: you ask a nasty question like that, It's called negotiation.
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  Speaker 1: Christine just pointed out he misspoke and said tax right there.
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  Speaker 1: Instead of calling it a tariff, he called it a tax,
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  Speaker 1: which is what it is the administration. I tried to
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  Speaker 1: deny that, but Gillian, let's go back to the core.
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  Speaker 1: There By the way I was able to get that
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  Speaker 1: image from the drudge report the Taco king here, it
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  Speaker 1: is the AI image of it. He doesn't like being mocked,
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  Speaker 1: and this is not a reporter mocking him. It's not
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  Speaker 1: a reporter asking a question that she thinks is going
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  Speaker 1: to get it them. I mean, this is what's happening
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  Speaker 1: with traders. This is what traders are saying about Donald Trump.
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  Speaker 1: This is how they are making money off of Donald Trump.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's two points to make.
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  Speaker 3: Firstly, as we know, bullies like to appear completely impregnable
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  Speaker 3: and domineering and in control until they're suddenly not. And
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  Speaker 3: they can't afford to look as if they're weak because
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  Speaker 3: they lose their power. Secondly, he's used to giving the
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  Speaker 3: names to other people and drawing out taunts attacking others.
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  Speaker 3: Remember Crooked Hillary or Little Mark Rubio, things like that.
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  Speaker 3: So the idea that Wall Street has basically turned the
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  Speaker 3: same game back against him is pretty threatening, and you
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  Speaker 3: can see that from the way he's stumbling. There's another
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  Speaker 3: acronym going around, which Anthony Scaramucci coined, tastes if you like.
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  Speaker 3: Trump always confuses everyone, and that's another way of declubbing
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  Speaker 3: what's going on right now. But I think there's a
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  Speaker 3: lot of diplomats around the world, and a lot of
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  Speaker 3: CEOs and frankly Trump opponents will be noticing what's happened
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  Speaker 3: around the whole Tago tag in the last few hours,
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  Speaker 3: trying to learn some lessons, and we may well see
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  Speaker 3: a repeat of this going forward.