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Authenticity in Interviews: The Key to Landing Your Dream Job With Geo Aguas · Speak In Flow

• 0:03
  Melinda Lee: Welcome, dear listeners to the speaking flow
• 0:05
  Podcast. I'm so glad you're here where we share unique
• 0:09
  experiences to help you unleash your leadership voice. Today, I
• 0:14
  have an amazing leader, Gio Argos. He's the VP of JP Morgan,
• 0:21
  on the investment banking side for an acquisition. He's doing a
• 0:26
  lot of great things where he does Operations, Business
• 0:31
  Development, HR talent acquisition. Welcome, Geo.
• 0:38
  Geo Aguas: It's my big pleasure to be here. Melinda. Oh, you
• 0:41
  all. Great to be here.
• 0:44
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, let's get started. Let's just jump right
• 0:47
  in. I think that with your experience you, you do so much.
• 0:51
  And I want to really hone in, because we're here talking about
• 0:54
  communication. I think talent acquisition, recruiting,
• 0:58
  interviewing is a big hot topic, because many of our listeners
• 1:02
  may be transitioning to a different job, or they may be
• 1:06
  applying to uplevel in their career. And so I wanted to just
• 1:10
  hone in and narrow in on some interviewing, like, what have
• 1:15
  you been seeing in, in your, in your industry or in your company
• 1:19
  with regard to hiring? What's that been like?
• 1:24
  All right. So so far, in terms of recruiting in terms of talent
• 1:29
  acquisition, you know, it's always gonna be hot topic,
• 1:33
  right? I mean, everywhere you go, regardless of geography,
• 1:38
  regardless of whatever industry you're in. It is what it is.
• 1:44
  People want jobs, right. And we want career development. We want
• 1:48
  career opportunities, you know, growth opportunities, you name
• 1:52
  it. Right. And one of the more common trends that we've been
• 1:56
  noticing across the board is, well, you got things like the
• 2:41
  great, great resignation, you know, yep. Things like that.
• 3:20
  Right. But apart from that, we're seeing more and more of
• 3:38
  mismatches, what used to be when I was back in school, I mean,
• 4:12
  back in business school, you think of it like, it's, you
• 4:30
  know, taboo, right.
• 4:31
  Melinda Lee: So right, so tell me anyway, so tell me about the
• 4:34
  mismatch. You're saying that a lot. There's a lot of mismatch,
• 4:37
  and it has to do with maybe everything coming back online or
• 4:44
  is that because that the company is not as clear with what they
• 4:47
  need? And the applicant is also not sure of how to position
• 4:53
  their skills? What is the right you're saying that there's an
• 4:57
  increase of mismatch?
• 4:59
  Geo Aguas: Yeah. Absolutely. So, um, well, for one thing, I mean,
• 5:05
  the most organisations really, are when the pandemic hit. I
• 5:10
  mean, no, I don't think there's any specific organisation that
• 5:14
  really anticipated that the pandemic would have created that
• 5:20
  big of an impact away did. Right. Right. And all companies
• 5:23
  went under, I mean, a big percentage of companies went
• 5:26
  under. And there are also companies that were born out of
• 5:31
  that environment, right. got companies like zoom, the
• 5:36
  platform that we're seeing right now, we seen it go huge. When
• 5:42
  the pandemic started, and then Google jumped right in, you've
• 5:45
  seen the rise of a lot of cloud and internet based companies.
• 5:53
  And there's also cryptocurrencies and, yeah, a
• 5:57
  lot of different things, or a lot of different companies that
• 6:00
  also came out. And so what that translating that back to the
• 6:06
  mismatch, right, meet, a lot of people lost their jobs, which
• 6:10
  again, no one really wanted that. But at the same time, that
• 6:17
  gave birth to new opportunities that were out of the norm that
• 6:22
  people were kind of in survival mode, and they wanted to
• 6:27
  basically take a grasp of what was available, and what is the
• 6:31
  secret crap hold at that time. So right, basically, market
• 6:36
  fundamentals went out the window when the p&l,
• 6:38
  Melinda Lee: right. So but this is interesting, too, because
• 6:41
  there's not going to stop, because now with AI, there
• 6:44
  really is going to be more turnaround in terms of what is
• 6:48
  leaving, what positions are leaving and what will like new
• 6:51
  positions are gonna get filled. So what what do you think is
• 6:54
  going to be the solution for that? Like, what are the
• 6:57
  challenges that we're going to have? And also Phusion?
• 7:01
  Geo Aguas: Ha, yeah, I think that's a good call.
• 7:04
  Melinda Lee: Big question. That's a big question. Answer.
• 7:10
  Geo Aguas: I wish I did. From what we have a similar
• 7:13
  Melinda Lee: phenomenon. It's a similar phenomenon to the
• 7:17
  pandemic. That's similar.
• 7:19
  Geo Aguas: Yeah, it's basically a revolution in the sense or,
• 7:24
  yeah, another era is coming on. And yeah, the era of AI, And
• 8:14
  right now, the human element, not really replace it, but
• 8:20
  merely just to get it to the next level. Right. And so I
• 8:24
  think the common theme with the rise of AI, at least with a lot
• 8:29
  of experts in the field are trying to set the right message
• 8:34
  for is it coexistence? Right? So right, right, your to kind of
• 8:40
  take you out of the equation, but merely just it's a tool for
• 8:45
  the most part, no one can relate to human a little bit, you know?
• 8:49
  And so,
• 8:49
  Melinda Lee: right. Right. And so that makes the communication
• 8:53
  part even more important, because we're right, like
• 8:58
  meaning to connect, but then you don't do think that the some
• 9:02
  roles will get replaced, or new roles will get created. So how
• 9:09
  does the company in the midst of all this transition, find the
• 9:15
  right person? And how does how do I like as an applicant know
• 9:21
  how to communicate some of these things?
• 9:24
  Geo Aguas: Right. That's your question.
• 9:28
  Melinda Lee: So yeah,
• 9:29
  Geo Aguas: I think we're
• 9:31
  Melinda Lee: moving on let's go from the company side, when your
• 9:33
  company position open, puts out post a position, how often is it
• 9:37
  like exactly what they want and need? Like, is it pretty clear,
• 9:42
  or are they still trying to figure out the position?
• 9:46
  Geo Aguas: I think that for me, most for most organisations, you
• 9:54
  know, it when they open up a position like that, normally,
• 9:59
  they do Have those conventional job descriptions that they want
• 10:03
  out of it? Right. Right. So I think that the the thing that a
• 10:13
  lot of people tend to kind of box themselves in is that they
• 10:19
  tried to, you know, they try to box themselves within that, that
• 10:25
  description that they see on your screens, right? Ah, I guess
• 10:29
  I perfectly support that way to go around this use using what
• 10:38
  you see on the screen what, what you see as a job description,
• 10:42
  how can you elevate that? And how can you kind of assimilate
• 10:47
  the value that, you know, you could contribute? I think that's
• 10:50
  the best way to kind of approach when, you know, for most job
• 10:57
  seekers, right. I mean, if they're, if they're, if they
• 11:01
  really want this opportunity that they see, for instance,
• 11:04
  they're out there applying for a job, right? I mean, the best way
• 11:08
  to go around it is not really seeing that job description as
• 11:14
  box and, you know, seeing yourself trying to check all the
• 11:22
  tick boxes, which Yeah, typically will. Yeah,
• 11:25
  Melinda Lee: right. Right. Right. Oh, I could do this. I
• 11:28
  could do this. I could do this. Yeah. And then they're not
• 11:31
  really conveying or thinking through before the interview.
• 11:36
  What value does that bring to the company? Yeah. Like, okay, I
• 11:41
  can do word processing, or I can submit this task. And that's
• 11:48
  like, more of XYZ, what I can do, but then if you can
• 11:50
  translate it to the value, oh, when I submit my task on time,
• 11:55
  we will say this company or the team, a lot of headache or so we
• 12:01
  can do bigger things like so. Is that what I'm hearing like we
• 12:04
  can we need to be a better communicator of translating the
• 12:08
  value you bring? Yeah.
• 12:10
  Geo Aguas: And it's not just short term value, right. It's
• 12:16
  also what?
• 12:23
  It's also like, what can Sorry, what kind of long term
• 12:34
  contribution they can make with the current skill set that you
• 12:41
  bring to the table? Right? I mean, yeah, basically, it's a
• 12:46
  mole there about, you know, a lot of people that we don't
• 12:53
  really fit the mould that. I don't think that a lot of people
• 12:58
  really textbook fit. tick all the boxes, right?
• 13:01
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. I love that. I mean, do you have an example
• 13:06
  of that, like, how you can, like how someone can talk about the
• 13:10
  long term, like, what can they do to help them? Plan out what
• 13:15
  to save for the like, how I can bring value not for the short
• 13:19
  term, but long term? How can they prepare for that
• 13:22
  discussion?
• 13:23
  Geo Aguas: Okay. So in my experience in a lot of the
• 13:26
  interviews that I've done before, yeah. I think that one
• 13:33
  thing that you have a one way to go around, it is just genuinely
• 13:38
  communicate your what you have the detail on, sometimes it can
• 13:43
  be a double edged sword, right. I mean, you know, sometimes
• 13:45
  acknowledging and being completely honest about, hey, I
• 13:49
  really don't have a lot of experience can be or I don't
• 13:55
  really have I don't really know, in our case, I mean, we hire
• 13:58
  for, or our firm historically, what we do is data processing
• 14:06
  for venture capital firms. Right? And here in the
• 14:11
  Philippines, we don't really it, it was one of our challenges in
• 14:15
  recruiting at the time, because, you know, it was the venture
• 14:21
  capital market isn't exactly a mainstream kind of investment
• 14:25
  market in the Philippines. So when you say venture capital, or
• 14:28
  even invest in school, I went to business school in PAH and it
• 14:34
  was some term that you hear every so often, but it's not
• 14:38
  really something that pops into your mind when you first talked
• 14:41
  about supplements in the Philippines. And so that was
• 14:46
  quite the challenge for us. When we were trying to build the
• 14:49
  brand. The firm because that's what we shouldn't do. But I
• 14:55
  think, for some of our rockstar hires what they do communicated
• 15:00
  was the genuine interest that they had in the subject matter.
• 15:04
  You wanted to learn about venture capital, they
• 15:07
  acknowledge that weakness that, hey, I don't I really don't have
• 15:11
  a lot of experience in venture capital just straight up. Right.
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  I think that's one of the one of the, that was definitely one
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  thing that definitely caught some of us by surprise is that
• 15:21
  they openly admit to that, but one thing that we did appreciate
• 15:26
  as employers was, you know, hey, we took that as a sign that
• 15:31
  maybe this is a good sign of authenticity. I mean, I know
• 15:36
  that I can bank on this person to be honest and transparent
• 15:41
  about, you know, what, what they know and what they want. And I
• 15:46
  think that is a good piece for people, especially for
• 15:50
  applicants to remember, right. It may not pan out, as, you
• 15:55
  know, as much as you think it would, and some people are in
• 16:02
  the interview face, or how should we say they're trying to
• 16:05
  put your best foot forward? And sometimes, it can be
• 16:09
  counterintuitive at times. Yeah, yeah, then about weaknesses and
• 16:13
  what you want, but for us as, and I think it's also says a lot
• 16:19
  about the firm that you're applying for, you know,
• 16:21
  Melinda Lee: yeah, yeah.
• 16:22
  Geo Aguas: Yeah. You're, it's a good thing that if you're it's
• 16:30
  23, if you've applied to affirm that, you know, didn't really
• 16:35
  use that truth that you just presented as a weakness in your
• 16:41
  shot. I think that's, that's a sign that maybe, you know, sis,
• 16:47
  affirm worse considering. Right,
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  Melinda Lee: right. Right. Right, right, going back to the
• 16:53
  idea of a mismatch, right, it's better that you tell the truth.
• 16:59
  But I love that. I love that. Because like you said, a lot of
• 17:01
  times when we're applying for a job, we're putting our best foot
• 17:05
  forward. And if we don't know something, we're going to think,
• 17:09
  oh, my gosh, we didn't look good, they're not gonna hire me.
• 17:12
  But then I think what you're saying is, is that these
• 17:15
  companies, these leaders, the good ones, are very connected,
• 17:21
  especially the good ones, the leaders, they're looking more
• 17:24
  for your, your leadership skills, like the soft skills,
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  because those are harder to teach, like the hard skills of
• 17:32
  venture capital, like, if you don't know the language and all
• 17:35
  that stuff, they know that that stuff is actually easier to
• 17:38
  teach. Like, that's where hiring is going nowadays, I think
• 17:42
  before it was like, Okay, what are your hard skills? What
• 17:45
  certifications do you have? What is your right? Your your
• 17:48
  credentials, and but nowadays, leaders are good ones, I think
• 17:53
  are more aware that all those hard skills and that knowledge,
• 17:58
  it's great if you have it, but don't listen, just because you
• 18:01
  don't doesn't mean you're out for the job. And it's better
• 18:04
  that you're just being authentic. And it's better that
• 18:06
  you just say, Hey, I don't know a lot about this, but I do,
• 18:10
  maybe you could show your leadership skills. I've
• 18:12
  demonstrated in the past that if I didn't know it all, I'll stay
• 18:15
  up late, I'll work really hard to learn it. I'll ask the right
• 18:18
  questions like so demonstrating your passion and your
• 18:21
  authenticity to so it's like both your passion and work ethic
• 18:25
  to learn it and also like the honesty that I don't I don't
• 18:28
  know, a lot, but then at least you're sure you're sharing with
• 18:31
  that leader or the interviewer or either your future manager.
• 18:34
  You you have, you're honest. And and then like you said, if they
• 18:38
  don't appreciate it, then maybe that's not a good fit. If you
• 18:42
  can't be honest at the interview.
• 18:45
  Geo Aguas: Right. And I think that if you take a look at it
• 18:48
  from a big picture point of view, I mean, employers, if you
• 18:52
  talk about the approaches that they use you for a very
• 18:56
  conventional, right, I mean, I think it's a good thing that
• 18:59
  we've grabbed, a lot of employers have gravitated
• 19:02
  towards a lot of maturity in the workplace. At least from a very
• 19:07
  practical standpoint. I mean, you're talking about people that
• 19:11
  you spin, I mean, what 40 hours a week with, I mean, you'd want
• 19:17
  to be with people that you you're, you know, you definitely
• 19:21
  are on the same page with, right. So that's also I think, a
• 19:28
  lot of employers now, not just, you know, with, you know,
• 19:32
  startups in a lot of small time firms, but a lot of big
• 19:38
  corporations are also gravitating towards that modular
• 19:42
  cake. You know, it's a completely different time than
• 19:46
  it was before. And, you know, getting people there's a
• 19:53
  scarcity in that in that department, right where I'm, you
• 19:57
  know, people who are good at working other people or, you
• 20:01
  know, bringing the best out and other people, again, like what
• 20:04
  you said it is something that you can't teach or some real
• 20:08
  textbook for. Yeah, a lot of that incurs on communication in
• 20:13
  not just you know, verbal communication. But yeah, non
• 20:17
  verbal in is just really knowing how to relate to other
• 20:22
  individuals, right.
• 20:24
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, that's awesome. I'm so glad to hear
• 20:27
  that. I'm so glad to hear that we are evolving, organisations
• 20:31
  are evolving toward that. And finding that, yeah, the human
• 20:35
  component is more important, or it is just as important as the
• 20:39
  hard skills and and going back to how can a person demonstrate
• 20:46
  or show that I can be a value for the long term. One idea I'm
• 20:54
  thinking of having as before you go into your interview, looking
• 20:57
  at the values of the company, and maybe even seeing where the
• 21:01
  projects are. We're where some of the big clients are. And
• 21:05
  really, and then just showing examples of how you can add
• 21:08
  value to some of the clients in the future. Not just today. Is
• 21:13
  that how would that be good? Yeah,
• 21:15
  Geo Aguas: that's actually good. Consent. Yeah. A very subtle
• 21:19
  tell. If you're not a lot of people with with the market
• 21:25
  being a lot more, or with the labour market, being more
• 21:28
  globalised where it is right now. It's easy for people to
• 21:32
  kind of chop hop right in, right. I mean, most probably the
• 21:37
  Gen Z. For Gen Z listeners out there. I mean, you know what I'm
• 21:43
  talking about? Pretty much.
• 21:44
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, you're not gonna give me what I want. I'm
• 21:46
  leaving? I don't know. I'm just making that up.
• 21:53
  Geo Aguas: Yeah, I mean, big picture wise. I mean, that's
• 21:57
  what we're headed towards, right. And again, it's a
• 22:01
  different landscape now employers or kind of being
• 22:06
  forced to stand out as well to kind of offer their own
• 22:12
  competitive advantage. And so I think that's also one thing that
• 22:18
  one thing that in terms of going back to like the communication
• 22:25
  bit, right on long term value, what you've talked about let me
• 22:32
  kind of gather my thoughts here, if you don't think your time.
• 22:44
  All right. Going back to the subtle tell, right? Again, it's
• 22:48
  subtle tell, because again, kind of got lost their voice, it's
• 22:54
  easy to find new employers, and it's not a lot of. And trust me,
• 23:03
  a lot of interviews, employers can tell if people are actually
• 23:07
  interested right? In I mean, sometimes just doing your
• 23:12
  homework, you know, the due diligence, and like, really,
• 23:15
  really understanding the organisation, that you want to
• 23:18
  be a part of what they're headed towards, if whether or not that
• 23:21
  kind of ticks your personal boxes. Hey, there's some
• 23:25
  organisation I hung out with. And I can see that they're
• 23:28
  heading towards this, and I want to be part of that. Right. Yeah.
• 23:31
  So I think that's also something that can be done by mere
• 23:37
  observation, just really just trying to learn as much as you
• 23:40
  can about the organisation that you're interested in to, in just
• 23:44
  communicating a scene. Applying for your company company, I've
• 23:50
  seen that you guys are doing some sort of AI kind of
• 23:54
  technology. And, you know, I think that you're heading into a
• 24:00
  really great direction. I think that outlines what I want to be
• 24:04
  a part of in it, I think that communicating or just, you know,
• 24:13
  highlighting those observations with what you see online about
• 24:18
  that firm that you've researched with. I mean, just making that a
• 24:23
  part of your message. When you approach your interviewers, I
• 24:27
  think that really is a good indicator that hey, this is a
• 24:32
  person or an applicant and actually wants to be a part of
• 24:39
  our firm and I don't want to be a part of firms that a lot of
• 24:46
  smaller firms usually have a lot of challenge with.
• 24:49
  Melinda Lee: Right, right. Like was it like you said the Gen Z
• 24:52
  have a lot of opportunities and they might, they do have choices
• 24:57
  and so it's about like, it does take a little Get More work time
• 25:01
  research to to put some thought into how you can add value to
• 25:06
  the company. But I think if you do really want that job, taking
• 25:10
  the time to do that research and planning out how you can really
• 25:13
  contribute to the long term goals of the company can really
• 25:17
  make you shine. Right? Well, I think that that's so I love
• 25:23
  these tips and strategies, I think they're, they're easier
• 25:28
  said than done. But when Yeah, but when an applicant or someone
• 25:34
  that is trying to uplevel and go into a new position is really
• 25:37
  thinking through the new job or the new role, how to articulate
• 25:42
  it. It's not just about what you do, like you're saying not just
• 25:45
  about what I could do, but then also communicating the value
• 25:50
  that you add, not just the short term, but then also the long
• 25:54
  term. both Yeah, so that's really key. Thank you, Geo. So
• 26:01
  is there any last what last one strategy or tip? What's your
• 26:05
  golden tip for people that are applying for jobs right
• 26:09
  Geo Aguas: now? Okay, so I think that probably my most this is
• 26:19
  probably this is very repetative. In the sense, you
• 26:25
  tend to hear a lot of whenever I read an article about landing a
• 26:31
  job and whatnot, it probably comes up every every so often
• 26:35
  wanting to write, but I can't really emphasise enough about
• 26:40
  how true it can be. Right? Or how underrated it may seem at
• 26:47
  times, but really just my earlier message about you know,
• 26:53
  being transparent, not really in. I'm not talking about you
• 27:00
  know, everything, Rob. I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, I'm
• 27:08
  not saying that. I mean, that's not what you're interviewing
• 27:11
  for. But I think that, you know, if it's an opening that you
• 27:16
  really want to shoot for, if it's a job that you really
• 27:20
  aspire to be and you really see yourself in that position, and
• 27:24
  you really feel like you could do it. And I think if you want
• 27:31
  it, usually, if you want it that much, uh, you could already kind
• 27:35
  of visualise how you would already stand out. Right? Like,
• 27:39
  if I know that, I mean, one of my hobbies, I really know how,
• 27:44
  or I really love playing guitar, right, for instance. And I know
• 27:49
  that when I in a way if I'm in a performance, or when I want to,
• 27:57
  you know, kind of being in that kind of situation where I'm
• 28:02
  about to play a song, you know, I know exactly what kind of tone
• 28:06
  I want to set or I want to sing what, right. I know exactly what
• 28:12
  song I know. I can sing, I can deliver over promise and but you
• 28:18
  know, I'm just gonna sing my song pretty much. I mean, that's
• 28:20
  probably my most quotable quote for today. I mean, yeah, we just
• 28:25
  sing your song. Your lyrics may, you know, not be Hall of Fame
• 28:33
  worthy, or, you know, sometimes people are just looking for a
• 28:38
  hip hop song or that idea, but right genre is, you know, you're
• 28:44
  in a rock and that kind of thing. I mean, it's okay, so
• 28:47
  long as you know, you know, it's it's your song after all, so,
• 28:52
  you know, just basically just sing your song. I mean, the
• 28:55
  musical speak for itself. Oh,
• 28:58
  Melinda Lee: that's so good. That was beautiful. That was
• 29:01
  very, that was wonderful. Thank you to I love that singer song.
• 29:07
  Sing your song had the intention of what you want, how you want
• 29:11
  people to feel, sing it. And the words and however it flows will
• 29:15
  come out the way it's supposed to. Love it. Thank you to you so
• 29:20
  much for your words of wisdom, sharing your advice for people
• 29:24
  that are applying for jobs looking and just being more
• 29:28
  aware honestly about how they add value. I think that's huge
• 29:32
  in terms of our leadership, so how we communicate it, so
• 29:37
  appreciate your time. Thank you listeners for joining. I'm sure
• 29:41
  you got a lot of nuggets out of this episode today, just like I
• 29:45
  did, until I see you next time. Take care. Much love. Bye. Bye.
• 29:53
  Thank you.