Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Navigating Digital Evolution - A Conversation with Musician Alan Chapell on Songwriting & More [Episode 177]

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Navigating Digital Evolution - A Conversation with Musician Alan Chapell on Songwriting & More [Episode 177] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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We ended up in the housebook community of House Toledo, and that's one of
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the few places in the world that during COVID still had live music. You
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would have people on the back of their houseboat would get a three to five
0:12
piece band. People would row or drive. That's cool. You'd have one
0:16
hundred people just hanging out and jibing to music as if all was right in
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the world. I'm live, I know dialogue how it's a fountain conversation,
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right, that's a geyser interesting, interesting, as provocative for Caddy maam back
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Man Rock and Roll. Welcome to Book don Rock, the podcast for those
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about to read and rock. Find the podcast at bookedonrock dot com, where
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you can find every episode of Book on Rock there, along with links to
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your favorite listening platforms, exclusive videos, blogs, links to all of the
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social media sites, and the latest rock book releases. We're back with another
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chapter in the Dialogue series, a chill and chat with authors, fellow podcasters,
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musicians, and more. We have New York City singer, songwriter and
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attorney Alan Chappelle on the podcast. He's a solo artist. He also records
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and performs with his band. Chappelle, whose twenty sixteen album, The Redhead's
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Allegations was produced by Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Jerry Harrison of Talking Heads.
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In twenty twenty two, Chappelle's music was streamed one point five million times.
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He's about to release a brand new album in March, titled The Underground
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Music Show. Allan is also a highly regarded privacy rights attorney. His dual
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role as a musician and attorney inspired a character created for the HBO series Silicon
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Valley. We'll talk about Allan's career in music, his songwriting process, the
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band's an artists he's a fan of, and his favorite books on rock.
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I also get Allan's perspective on streaming services and the use of AI and music.
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A playlist of Allan Chappelle's music can be found on the show notes page.
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Hi Ellen, Welcome to the podcast. Hi Eric, thanks for having
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me checking out your website and what a bio. You've got a career in
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music and law. Let's start with your music because this goes way back to
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before you were six. You played piano and trumpet. Tell us about your
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background a bit. You grew up here in Connecticut, by the way,
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too, not far from where I am here. Yeah. I grew up
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on the mean streets to Stanford, Connecticut, Yeah, and started taking trumpet
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at three or four. There was this really cool thing that they had in
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Stanford back in the day, and in old school it wasn't rip Awom,
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I think it was called Rice. So this tells you how long ago this
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was. I mean, they've long since knocked that down. It was right
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by the train station. But they had a thing called Project Music, which
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was a free thing where the best music teachers in the entire city would come
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and donate their time to give young kids music lessons. And it was just
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a wonderful, wonderful program. All of my brothers I have three brothers that
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they did it. I did it for a number of years, and trumpet
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at least. I started out trying to play claren and that didn't go so
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well, and so I very quickly shifted over into trumpet. Uh. And
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then a couple of years later started playing the piano with a guy named Ogden
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Booker and uh in Stanford as well, and uh boy, the rest is
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history. Who are the bands and artists that you followed growing up? Well?
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I loved the Police, I love Billy Joel. I know he's got
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a new song out today. I can't belase on the day we're recording.
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Yeah, turn the lights back on. It's called That's Wonderful and uh and
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the Talking Heads and uh, you know, I was I was a huge
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fan. You know, I love the Beatles, but I was you know
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where I really kind of felt it was in the the eighties Synth New Ay,
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the Cure of the Smiths, you know, the New Order, those
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kinds of bands. They really did it for me as a as a keyboard
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player, you know that that was just kind of a fun thing. The
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Cure in my top five. I love the Care, I love the Well
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you're not just a musician, you're a songwriter too. Who are the artists
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that you look to for songwriting inspiration? Who are some of your favorites?
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Well, I love David Byrne. I love just talking music with you know,
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like almost any songwriter that I meet, or even anybody who's more creative,
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like I love going through the process. And the reason I share that
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is that, you know, David wrote a kind of an interesting book where
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one of the things he did is sort of walked through his process, and
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that's just such a gift, you know, anytime anybody's willing to share that
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kind of thing, because it's everybody's just a little different. There is no
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writer wrong, there's just always what it is. And uh and it's always
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really interesting to see what others are doing well. Speaking to that, what's
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the most important ingredient to a good song for you? Oh, it has
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to have some kind of connection. For me, I've written some of what
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I think are interesting, like melodies and things, but but I wasn't for
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a number of songs, wasn't able to get to the what I wanted this
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to be about. And and so as a result, if you if you
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don't feel that, it's really difficult to come up with some real you know,
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with with well with words. And I find it almost easy once I've
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decided generally what I want to what i want something to be about, the
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words come out so much more naturally. When do melodies come to constantly just
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out of nowhere, right, constantly out of nowhere. So the coolest thing
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in some ways for me was the invention of the cell phone. Uh.
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And I know that may sound kind of a weird thing, but the ability
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to take an idea because you happen to be walking through the subway on a
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Tuesday morning and and sing something into into your phone that you can then come
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back to in a day, a week, a month. And also just
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as you're songwriting, like banging something out on the piano and it might be
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a third done, but that's okay because you can come back to it in
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a week or a month, and that's really really important because otherwise you're sort
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of you try to rely on your memory, and that's always just a difficult
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thing. Is there a particular subject that you're drawn to most lyrically? Yeah,
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I like relationships. I like writing stories about people that I've met,
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and I might embellish a little bit, but you know, you'll meet somebody
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and they'll tell you a little little bit about themselves and you can kind of
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extrapolate that into a story. Or sometimes you get most of the story and
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then you got to you got to hide a couple of details so that people
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don't necessarily know you're writing about them. And I also write about things that
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are interested, you know, to me politically. You know. The song
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Spin on the album Sinko is really about the twenty four hour news cycle.
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There's a song called San Denista, which is about what's going on in Nicaragua
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over the last well twenty or something years, and so I, you know,
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I try not to limit myself except I have to feel it. And
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if I'm feeling it, you know, then it can come out. I
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was interviewing an author of a book on Bob Dylan recently, and I thought
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it was fascinating that he's he was talking about how Bob Dylan went through all
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these different phases lyrically and phrasing and all these things, and then he got
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to the point where he had mastered the art of lyrics so much that he
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just threw the rules out and did what he wanted to do. In other
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words, so he'd have he'd have like maybe one verse with just packing as
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many syllables as possible, and then in the very same song, maybe the
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next verse it spread out. He was just playing around, like do you
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get to that point where you're that comfortable to where you're just like, let's
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let's break the rules a little here. Oh yeah, some days some days
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you feel like you can do anything, and you'll and you kind of go
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out of your way to like, well, let's try to do something a
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little different here. The other thing to keep in mind is, you know,
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it's as important as it is to find your voice, it's also really
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important not to repeat yourself. And it becomes very easy to use the same
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type of phrase or some of the same words, or some of the same
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themes, and you have to be really careful about that, you know,
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as you're writing a particular album, or as you're doing you know, I'm
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on, you know a couple of hundred songs now, so you have to
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really you want to make sure you're not repeating yourself. Do you collaborate with
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others? Are you primarily the songwriter? I mostly write on my own.
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For me, it's just a very personal thing and I need to get into
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my own headspace. So from a collaboration standpoint, I love bringing in talented
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musicians to kind of work on ideas, but for the basic chords and the
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lyrics, for me, I really do all that myself. I want to
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ask you about your work with Jerry Harrison of Talking Heads, But first,
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your band Chappelle has a new album out next month, so can you talk
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about the album, Who's in the band, what can we expect to hear?
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I think this is probably the broadest project I've ever done. This is
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the seventh album that I'll do under the name Chappelle, or at least the
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band named Chappelle, and then work mostly with the same core band, you
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know, Roddy Howard on drums, Malcolm Gold on bass and Klient on guitar,
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Lorenzo Pons on violin, Ali Kulata who who's chipped in a little bit
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on keys for this album, although most of them I did myself, and
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then I brought in a whole bunch of other musicians, a group called the
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Crush Boys out in LA and a whole bunch of other folks. Because you
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remember this, this album was mostly written and even recorded during the pandemic,
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and so even during the basic tracks process, I was living out West.
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I actually recorded with the band where I was remote and we would pipe in
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my vocals and I would literally sit and listen as the band was recording.
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We did a four day kind of massive recording session. How was that experience
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like them? Was it? Some artists prefer to just everybody be in the
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same room. Yeah, So I think there's there's pros and cons to it.
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So the one thing that was really cool is that since I wasn't singing
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while the band was recording, I was just focusing on listening and is the
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feel right? Whereas if you're in the studio with everybody, there's something wonderful
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about that you're vibing or whatever, but you're also performing, and when you're
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performing, you're not necessarily listening for the overall vibe. And so from that
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perspective, it was really cool. And I wouldn't say that I would never
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do that again, because I think I did enjoy the experience. But for
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me, I'm I'm a fan of getting a bunch of people who you love
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into a room and almost do it a summer camp type of a thing where
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you wall everybody off for a few days or a week to take them away
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from all the you know, all the pettiness that life can bring and really
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focusing on the music. What was that experience like during COVID in terms of
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because you also you play gigs solo gigs on the piano, but you play
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with the band as well, that period was difficult for artists that needed to
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get some income. Yeah, so I was fortunate my wife and daughter and
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I moved out to Saucelito and there's a side story to that how we ended
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up out there. But we ended up in the houseboat community of South Toledo.
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And one of the cool things is that's one of the few places in
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the world that during COVID still had live music. You would have people who
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would like on the back of their houseboat, would get a three to five
11:15
piece band. People would row or drive. That's cool. You would you'd
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have one hundred people in Richardson Bay in San Francisco just hanging out and jibing
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to music as if all was right in the world. And this is right
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in the middle of the pandemic, when nobody was doing anything, and it
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was such a breadth of fresh air that I was grateful to be able to.
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I played a bunch of shows there. I also went to a bunch
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in that environment because it was just fun, oh and so welcome. At
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that time, everybody was stuck inside. Twenty sixteen album The Redhead's Allegation,
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produced by Jerry Harrison of Talking Head, So let's talk about that. How
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did you team up with Jerry for that project? Well, so back in
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the day, I had I had a band in college and we had we
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met because it you know, I lived in Connecticut, and so we met
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Chris and Tina from Talking Heads back then, and they would occasionally come out
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and see that my band and we became friendly over the years. And so
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when I was looking for a producer back in what twenty fourteen, twenty and
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fifteen, I reached out to Chris Franz, who's obviously Talking Heads drummer,
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and Chris turned me on to Jerry, and we met. We hit it
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off. He's we've actually he's become a pretty close friend and mentor. He
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spoke at my wedding a couple of years ago in Nicaragua, and we partnered
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on a whole bunch of things. And so it's and Jerry's studio was in
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He had a personal studio in Soslito, which happened to be across the street
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from the Housepoke community, which is how I ended up out there. He
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said, look, you know, I don't know how long this recording process
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is going to take, but but do you yourself a favor, go rent
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to houseboat for a while. It's it's an experience, and and I did
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and fell in love with it, and then and uh uh, and ended
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up getting one in sort of a weird a weird only in Sasolito deal.
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That's cool, man. I think a pink Floyd was it? Momentary Lapse
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of Reason was recorded on a houseboat on the Thames River. I think,
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so, yeah, Wow. How is Jerry as a producer? What's it
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like working with him as a producer. He's just wonderful. He's very open,
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He's very cerebral. He knows what works, but he doesn't really he's
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really doesn't try to dominate he but you you kind of his wisdom. You
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know, he doesn't He might not even speak that much, but when he
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says something, it just really makes sense. And so he is. I
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openly refer to Jerry as the Wizard of Oz and what I mean by that
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is that he's sort of one of those guys that can get you to believe
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you could do something when you didn't think you could do it before. And
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that's a gift. And I've seen him do that with other musicians. I've
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seen him do that in a business capacity, and candidly, Jerry is sort
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of Jerry is probably one of the reasons why I'm less reluctant to talk about
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the business stuff that I do in music settings. And since we're talking talking
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heads, and you mentioned the book, David Burns's book, it's called How
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Music Works Nothing but five star reviews across the board, and he goes into
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the history of music, the approaches to writing and recording. I'm interested in
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your take on this book because I found it interesting to see that things aren't
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that different today than they were years ago, in that the current state of
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technology and the method in which music is delivered to people affects the way a
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musician approaches not just how they record music, but also how they perform it
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on stage. And it's also the ever changing world around us and the current
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culture that just affects the music. It's always been that way, Yeah,
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And every every single recording session, every single song is different. It's its
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own unique, organic, living and breathing thing. And there's definitely some similarities
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just to my career as I go back to, you know, age fifteen
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in the studio to now. But but technology is such that, you know,
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a lot of things have changed. One of the things that's changed is
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I do a lot more of the you know, quote unquote writing and recording
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alone in using garage band and it's a wonderful tool just to like get an
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idea down that you can then hand to a group of musicians and say,
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hey, this is the general idea. Now, now let's bring life to
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it. But that way, you're not in You're not in the rehearsal studio
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where like, you know, the drummer thinks it should be a blues song
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and the guitarist thinks it should be a dance song, and like no,
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no, no, no no, this is the general gist. It's not
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perfect. But when you give talented people guideposts, a north star for like
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where you want to go, man, they'll they'll get there and then and
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then on top of that, they'll still bring their own little, their own
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little stink onto it, which is good. How does streaming affect songwriting approach?
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Because there are some artists who will say, well, they don't put
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an album out anymore, they'll just put out singles individually. And I think
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back to again, just what the book talks about. It's like, if
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you go back to the late sixties early seventies, the reason we have albums
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like Dark Side of the Moon and these long epic album's concept pieces is because
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there was FM radio right in the late sixties, all of a sudden they
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were playing the whole album side and you know, all that stuff affects.
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So how does streaming services affect your approach to songwriting or releasing music. It
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really doesn't, for better or worse. For me, I grew up on
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the album and and and so I'm probably a little stuck in my ways in
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that respect. On the other hand, it costs a certain amount of money
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to get a group of musicians into a room to record some songs, and
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so you really don't want to do that on like a onesie twuoesie level because
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it's just not cost effective. And fortunately for me, I write enough and
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write quickly enough that like we can go in and do twelve to fifteen songs
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for an eleven or twelve song album. And so for me that's still the
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the easiest and best way to do it. Now, I can't tell you
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that that pleases the algorithms the of the monolith streaming services. What I try
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to do is, you know, for this latest album, the album will
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be probably twelve or thirteen songs still mixing, but then I've got another dozen
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or so that'll be I guess what we'd call b sides in the olden days.
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So to feed the algorithm, you know, I'm going to release you
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know, singles probably you know, six to eight before I release the whole
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album. And then after I do that, there'll be a bunch of B
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sides, which I'll probably release most of them because my understanding is that the
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algorithm likes uh, you know, likes regular check ins or likes regular likes
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fresh meat to interesting. So yeah, I've noticed that bands and artists six
18:18
seven eight singles then the album, and I don't know if that's the right
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way to do it. Is there right or wrong at this point? Yeah.
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The other thing for me, which which might be different than some others,
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is that, like I tend to bounce around genres a little bit.
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You know, there's a there's a song on this upcoming album called Grow Old
18:37
with Me, and that's almost an Americana song. I mean, I do
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it my own way, but it's definitely in that area. I've got one
18:45
that that, you know, was almost indie pop. I've got something that,
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like, you know, has almost a Laurel Canyon feel, and so
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I try to make it all the Chappelle sound, but there's definitely different,
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different, sub genres in there and so, And the reason I'm sharing that
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is like in the world of algorithms, it's I don't know if that's a
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good thing or a bad thing because you're you're like, you know, what
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do you category as this our artist? As what is this artist? Like?
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I don't know that. The other the challenge is how to keep interest.
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Like the Stones put out an album, phenomenal album Ackney Diamonds, right
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the whole album start to finish, the first single, Angry comes out,
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it makes a lot of noise, it's in the media, the video gets
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a lot of play, but then it's now it's kind of like, okay,
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have have people already forgotten about it? Because it back in the day,
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you'd get a single released to radio, space them out, you know,
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like I remember as a as a kid or a teenager when like a
19:49
def lapperd or bon Jovia. But like these albums lasted a year and a
19:52
half single single single, that's hard too to keep just to keep that album
20:00
out there for a long period. It is. But but bon Jovi and
20:04
def Lefford and big fans of both, so this isn't meant directed to them.
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But back then there were a relatively small number of tastemakers who decided that
20:17
all my friends were going to listen to def Leppard this summer, right,
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And that isn't that sort of there but not really there? And like,
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I mean, heck, you know, Pitchfork is gone a bunch of other
20:30
you know it, Like, I don't even know who the taste makers are
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anymore. It's now the sort of you know, now it's just the algorithm
20:38
and you know, I don't even know what you mean. Yeah, you're
20:42
a fan of Keith Richard's book, by the way, you mentioned that life
20:45
Who does That's that's one of the great it's one of the best selling books.
20:48
That's from two thousand and nine. And there's another book that you throughout
20:52
that I thought was interesting. Everybody's seen the story of Connecticut's Anthrax Club by
20:56
Chris Daily. Tell me about this club, so I have to confess I
21:00
have a personal connection to that. My cousins are Brian and Sean Sheridan,
21:07
Okay, and so there are a number of years older than me. And
21:11
I just remember out of a group of I don't know, there were like
21:14
nineteen Sheridan cousins, I was the second youngest, So we were always the
21:18
one like like chasing after them when we were really young, and like they
21:22
were like, hey, nice to see you, but seriously, you know,
21:26
go go play with the grown ups. Yeah. But I remember Brian
21:30
and Sean when I when I hit like high school could not have been more
21:34
supportive of everything that I was trying to do. And I was a you
21:38
know, a aor popish, you know, a keyboard player, and these
21:44
guys are like, you know, bringing in bands like Anthrax to play this
21:48
tiny little club in Stanford, Connecticut. I had no idea until I was
21:52
I was, I think a junior or senior in high school of like what
21:56
these guys were bringing to the table. These guys were revolutionaries and what they
22:00
did with with that with that club and and probably don't get enough credit for
22:06
their contributions to the punk scene. I will just share one personal anecdote having
22:11
because I'm definitely I love the energy of the punk scene, but I'm not
22:17
of that world, and that's no disrespect to it. It's just a different
22:18
thing than I have. But when I went there, the energy that I
22:23
felt in that room was just the coolest thing I've to this day that I've
22:30
ever felt and and just And in addition to that, I was struck by
22:34
the number of people who were there who were so focused on this is a
22:40
cool place. We don't get many cool places. We're going to take care
22:44
of this, and they were fiercely loyal to Brian and Sean, and I
22:48
thought that was just such a cool thing. Yeah, that reminds me of
22:51
the Shaboo Inn, which was in Mansfield, Connecticut, right, and that
22:55
was a place where you had all these great bands coming in on their way
23:00
up, like the Police and Aerosmith. The story is walk this or Not
23:04
Walk This Way dream On the first time they ever played it live was in
23:07
the Shabouin. I love those places. Toad's Place in New Haven is one,
23:11
and there's a book that was out on that recently. Yeah, the
23:15
Anthrax was this with this tiny little club that started in a bad neighborhood at
23:21
Stanford, Connecticut and then gravitated over to Norwalk for a number of years and
23:27
really really influenced and maybe even revolutionized the music scene in Connecticut. And I
23:33
don't think Brian or shown to get enough credit for that. That's cool.
23:36
So another book I want to ask you about I want to read an excerpt
23:38
first, but it's Daniel J. Levitin's This is Your Brain on Music from
23:42
two thousand and seven, and this one looks absolutely fascinating. And here's a
23:47
quick excerpt from the book. And Levedon writes, by better understanding what music
23:51
is and where it comes from, we may be able to better understand our
23:52
motives, fears, desires, memories, and even communication. In the broadest
23:56
sense. Is music listening more along the lines of eating when you're hungry and
24:03
thus satisfying and urge Or is it more like seeing a beautiful sunset or getting
24:07
a back rub which triggers sensory pleasure systems in the brain. Why do people
24:11
seem to get stuck in their musical tastes as they grow older and sees experimenting
24:17
with new music. This is the story of how brains and music co evolved.
24:21
What music can teach us about the brain, what the brain can teach
24:23
us about music, and what both can teach us about ourselves. Okay,
24:27
so there's a part in there that I want to ask you about. Why
24:33
do we and I found myself doing this now at fifty one, why do
24:37
we cease to experiment new music as we get older, why do we seem
24:41
to get stuck in our tastes? Because they say between the ages of like
24:45
what is it your teen years, like thirteen and nineteen around there, whatever
24:49
you listen to at that time, that's like your strike zone for the rest
24:53
of your life. You're going to go back to that. Yeah, it's
24:56
really about free time, very simple. I have some I have some friends
25:03
who you know, made it up until their thirties where they were still their
25:07
life revolved around discovering new music. And if your life revolves around that,
25:11
you will discover new music. And it's unfortunate. It's it's uh, it
25:15
becomes this. You know, music is a refuge and uh. The problem
25:21
with new music when you have limited time is that if something isn't good,
25:26
uh, you know, you immediately want to gravitate to something that is,
25:30
and so you stay with the what's comfortable. I try to force myself,
25:36
like for when I go running or when I'm just sort of just randomly listening
25:38
to music with friends. I try to force myself to throw new things on
25:42
playlists. But even that, like that takes time to do. And and
25:48
I'm now I've got a playlist I just went for a run a couple of
25:49
hours ago, and like, I'm now realizing that most of the songs of
25:55
that playlist I'm kind of bored with, and so I need something else,
25:56
and so it's it's uh, but it's really it's free time and radio two,
26:03
because back in the day I had local rock radio stations that I would
26:07
count on to bring me something. What do you got? You know,
26:11
I discovered Blues Traveler from the local rock station here, Like, who are
26:15
these guys? You know they were playing But anyway, you know, before
26:18
run Around became a hit, that's that's gone. I remember. I don't
26:23
know why this is coming to mind, but I'll share it anyway. When
26:26
when Synchronicity came out the police first, I bought my paper, Yes,
26:33
such such hell Doors call Doors, I got it outs. There was a
26:38
group of friends who were like, everybody thinks Synchronicity two is a great song,
26:44
but we're into Synchronicity one. There is this like thing like there was
26:48
social currency about being the person to discover Synchronicity two. When the radio stations
26:56
were playing Synchronicity one or vice versa, where they're all playing every breath you
26:59
take or whatever, and like that. That's the other thing is like,
27:03
you know, I don't know about you when you When I get together with
27:04
friends, uh, non music friends, yeah, civilians, that there isn't
27:11
a lot of talk about like what the latest band is. You might get
27:15
a little bit of like you know, we like going to Bottle Rock or
27:18
one of the there's a couple of couple of festivals that we my wife and
27:22
I really enjoy and have gone to for years. But but that isn't part
27:26
of the social currency for many people. Once you hit you know, heck,
27:30
even twenty five. Some some hit that wall of thirty or thirty five.
27:34
Most people by then you know that that's just a lesser thing. And
27:38
and and then and then it's about nostalgia. It's about seeing that band that
27:44
you saw when you met your wife. It's about seeing that band that you
27:48
saw when this one thing happened to you, you know, when you were
27:51
when you were seventeen. And that's hard to replicate. And I say that
27:56
as somebody who's writing new stuff now. And part of my thing is I
28:00
think you can still write about you know, I've got songs about friends who
28:04
who tried to get together at seventeen and then found their way many years later.
28:07
And but but it's not the same things as the thing that you know
28:14
as the nostalgia thing that I think people are really so attached to. But
28:17
playing it live that you make it more of a connection. Like I just
28:21
saw Big Head Tod the Monsters and they played four new songs and three of
28:26
them I was like, damn, this is good. Right. So then
28:29
now when that album comes out, I'm gonna remember in my mind seeing them
28:32
play that live. So I think that's important to make that connection with the
28:36
live audience with new music. Yeah, and they're one of those, like
28:40
I don't know, the exception that proves the rule type bands because they're still
28:42
writing great stuff. They they they almost need to because because they like to
28:48
play three and four hour concerts. I mean they plays no opening act,
28:53
no opening bin. So it's funny. I opened for them once in a
28:56
place Reenwich Greenwich Odium in Rhode Island, maybe maybe five or six years ago,
29:03
and they all could not have been nicer. But it was pretty funny
29:07
because it was almost like you could tell as they were on hour three and
29:11
a half of their concert, you could almost feel that like the venue was
29:15
like, Yeah, we're not going to do another opener with these guys.
29:19
Half the reason you do an opener is so that the venue can sell bar
29:23
receipts for an extra hour. But if you you got these guys, they're
29:26
going to come in and play, you know, three and a half hours
29:30
or whatever the heck they play. I mean, it's just you don't need
29:32
that. Yeah, big hit Todd. Another one book that you read,
29:36
and I think you had mentioned it's the best you've read, and that's Hunter
29:38
S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail seventy two came out in
29:42
seventy three. What's what is it about this book specifically that it puts it
29:47
at the top of your list. Well, I think that that Hunter really
29:51
got the the what was going on. Then there was this weird synergy between
29:56
like the freaks, the vets, who we were returning from the war,
30:00
who didn't nobody read, nobody really wanted to deal with the political movement.
30:07
All of these crazy things were coming together into this electric suit. But I
30:11
thought Hunter had his finger on that better than anybody. Yeah, that's good
30:17
boy. He was an interesting character for Foreshore. Now a book you want
30:22
to read is On the Wrecking Crew, The inside story of rock and Roll's
30:25
Best Kept Secret, and it's written by Kent Hartman. Came out in twenty
30:29
thirteen, and I've got to read this one too. There stare people that
30:33
don't even realize that that they're hearing the Wrecking Crew on so many of these
30:38
songs, like even the Monkeys, right, they were in the first two
30:41
albums by the Monkeys. Yeah, any Wrecking crewse stories that because I know
30:45
there's a good one on the Boxer, Simon and Garfunk call you ever heard
30:48
that one about that? Oh? I didn't realize they played on the box
30:52
Oh my god, this is a great story. So Hal Blaine, you
30:56
know, he's the drummer and he's on the Boxer and his were set up
31:00
at the bottom of an elevator shaft at the CBS Columbia Square building in New
31:06
York. I think that because they did they recorded in La and New York
31:10
and you know that part like La la la, Oh, yeah, you
31:12
know, And and Blaine is right there and he's set up it's on the
31:15
like seventh or eighth floor, and he's in front of the elevator shaft and
31:18
it's a Sunday and nobody's in the building, or so he thought. And
31:22
as he crashes down on the drum, the elevator door opens up, and
31:26
there's this old security guard, like, you know, retired police officer,
31:30
like seventy something years old. The door opens, his mouth is wide open,
31:34
and Blaine said, the guy just looked like he thought he got shot.
31:38
Was ooh. Door closes and Blaine said, never saw the guy again.
31:45
I love it. The book Done Rock Podcasts will be back after this.
31:51
We're talking with singer songwriter in attorney Alan Chappelle. Along with her career
31:55
as a musician, you're also a tech industry privacy rights attorney. I got
31:59
that right. Yeah. I work with a bunch of tech companies and I've
32:04
been in the privacy space for like twenty years. I when I had originally
32:07
given up on the music industry, UH, I went to law school and
32:12
studied human rights and UH and then started working at UH what they used to
32:16
call new media companies in New York City, UH and just sort of fell
32:21
into that world. I really liked the culture. Hell, half the half
32:25
the employees it had a set of drumsticks or a bass or a guitar,
32:30
you know, kicking around their office and so like that a rock star.
32:34
Yeah, that type of thing was and it was was really was really uh
32:38
not only accepted, but like really encouraged and and uh and so uh,
32:44
you know, it's been a nice you know, I've been doing what I'm
32:45
doing now for a while and I like it. It helps pay the bills,
32:50
it gives me the flexibility to write and uh, and you know,
32:53
I'm able to help make some public policy decisions with like with you know,
32:59
some tech companies. That's cool. And you inspired a character on the HBO
33:02
series Silicon Valley. This all came about because of a chance meeting with the
33:07
show's producer. Yeah. I was at the airport and my flight was delayed.
33:13
So you know, you go to the bar and you have a drink,
33:15
can you watch the local basketball game? And half the time you end
33:19
up, you know, just catching up or with with with with whoever happened
33:22
to be sitting next to you. And in this time, there was somebody
33:24
who turns out was like a creative consultant in one of the producers of Silicon
33:30
Valley, and so I kind of pitched him on my idea, like to
33:32
me, it would be very funny if Pied Piper, the company in Silicon
33:40
Valley, if they had a huge privacy issue, and then we're trying to
33:45
get a hold of their privacy attorney, and it turned out their privacy attorney
33:50
was like, you know, sound checking for a gig with ever Clear or
33:53
something like that. And then and then like they're trying to get him and
33:57
he's like half paying attention and have to in the soundtrack. Can you get
34:00
at art, Alexander? Alexis there anyway? I thought that would be really
34:05
funny, and I'm pitching on with a couple of beers in me and you
34:07
thought it would be really funny, and we we you know, traded business
34:10
cards. They ended up going in a different direction. They did talk about
34:14
privacy though in one of the one of the episodes, so it made my
34:20
little mark. Yeah. Absolutely. Hey, we've talked about streaming services and
34:23
that's a new thing. Now let's talk about artificial intelligence, and everybody just
34:29
likes to shorten up to AI. In twenty twenty three, the use of
34:32
AI in music became a story. What do you think about that AI?
34:37
The use of AI, I mean from a from a musician's perspective, from
34:40
a legal perspective, yeah, so, I mean I think over the near
34:45
term, it's it's sort of like you remember, remember the big issue over
34:51
sampling. Oh yeah, that was like a big oh my goodness, they're
34:53
they're taking my my, you know, my work. And and originally sampling
35:01
was I mean leaving aside with the hip hop guys did, because they would
35:06
take a little thing and then and make a three hour dance record out of
35:08
it, and in a way that I thought was brilliant. But like when
35:10
it when it came when it when it arrived on the pop scene, it
35:14
became very gimmicky at first, but then eventually, you know, people started
35:17
using it in a much more artistic way. I feel the same way with
35:22
Auto two. At first that became like, oh my goodness, you're you
35:25
know, you're, you're, you're you're harming artists who can actually sing,
35:30
and like, yeah, maybe a couple of the implementations of it, but
35:34
like eventually, you know, guys like Tea Pain who like that became his
35:38
thing and and te Pain can sing, by the way, but he just
35:42
that's that's his his style choice. In the same way that like, you
35:45
know, I don't know, it's like some guitarists used used, you know,
35:50
a certain form of overdrive, and that became their signature. For the
35:52
Edge uses echo, it becomes a signature thing. So I guess I'm using
35:58
that as as a backdrop to like with AI. Yeah, there's gonna be
36:01
some weird uses of it. It's it's gonna come off as you know,
36:06
you're gonna have somebody's gonna figure out how to Like, I want a song
36:09
that sounds like Taylor Swift and John Lennon wrote it, and like it'll go
36:14
through the magic box and it'll it'll come up with something and sooner or later
36:19
they'll get that sordid so that becomes a hit record. But but I don't
36:22
worry about that because that's not my game. My game is trying to put
36:27
stuff together. That's that's that's my sound, and that's different than the AI
36:31
sound. Yeah, and my money is on that. As as music becomes
36:37
more and more slick and more and more polished, that there's gonna be a
36:39
market. Uh, there's gonna be an audience for uh, stuff that's real
36:45
and stuff that's raw and the people love the jagged edges of music. Oh
36:50
yeah, that's the thing. Leave the mistakes in. Yeah, you don't
36:52
want it to be too perfect. Yeah, there's a UK band that put
36:57
on an album based on Oasis and and they called it to a issis.
37:04
But then you think, you know, do the artist should they be concerned?
37:07
You know, it's like, hey, whoa, whoa what if that
37:08
starts selling copies? It's like, okay, uh, you're taking our sound
37:13
here. I think you got to give us a cut. Yeah, so
37:15
I think that I think that I'm telling you something you already know. But
37:21
but the way musicians make money is really blown up. One thing I've noticed,
37:27
if you go and sit in a restaurant, listen to what music is
37:30
being played, because what they've started to do now is like every nth song
37:35
is not the original artist. It's this sort of soundalikee thing that sounds kind
37:39
of like it. And if it's not super loud, you don't always but
37:43
if you listen for it, it's there and and and the problem with that,
37:49
in my view is that you know, the people who performed on the
37:52
original track are now not getting paid because they've kind of substituted in some scrubs
37:59
of who they have to pay less to and and and then me as a
38:02
listener is getting something that that isn't as good anyway. Like, you know,
38:08
I don't really know what one can do about that, you know,
38:14
I'm not you know, uh, you know you can't take it to the
38:16
streets and stop patronizing restaurants. But but it isn't a concern. Uh.
38:22
And I I don't know, I don't really know how we how we address
38:25
that. Technology just change is everything. I mean, I can't even believe
38:30
it, you know. Now it's like nobody we can't go without our phones.
38:35
And our phones are our calendars, Our phones are our entertainment systems.
38:38
You know, it's amazing to uh, but think about keep in mind with
38:44
that is like they're like, you know, memory is fade and people tend
38:47
to look at the past nostalgically. But the good old days weren't that good
38:52
for musicians. You had a couple of musicians who, you know, the
38:58
the boys at Sony or wherever, decided we're gonna be like the next big
39:02
thing. And then and then morphed him into the thing and and send him
39:07
off to some producer who helped morph him into something like and and and three
39:12
quarters of them at least, you know, ended up indebted to indebted to
39:17
the record company and never you know, and and like you know, there's
39:22
definitely you know, success, it's just it. But I guess my point
39:28
being is like now I can at least put something out there and know that
39:31
a certain number of people are going to listen to it. You're right,
39:34
I'm not getting Taylor Swift, you know, listens plays on Spotify. But
39:39
you know, I also wasn't getting that kind of plays in the olden days
39:44
when you know, when when it was a handful of DJs and the record
39:46
labels who were making up exactly we've really just traded, you know. The
39:52
only difference now is like you know, back in the day, I suppose
39:55
you could buy a bag of weed for the for the for the DJ,
39:59
and you can't. Really Yeah, well no from a creative standpoint, as
40:02
just somebody like like iself, I love being creative and to have when when
40:07
podcasting started, you know this whole thing, you know, the Internet and
40:10
what you can do because I worked in radio a long time ago, and
40:14
I have to drive forty fifty miles at times to just get to a radio
40:17
station, to get behind a microphone, and now I'm here at home doing
40:21
it and I get to be creative and I have an outlet. So the
40:24
upside is huge in that way because there are so many people now who may
40:30
have been creatively frustrated and they're just going to their nine to five and they
40:32
come home, they don't do anything. You got an outlet and so,
40:37
and you've got creative freedom for the most part because you can you can do
40:40
things that maybe you wouldn't be able to do, you know, when you're
40:45
maybe working for a corporation, you know. So, And I think as
40:47
a musician, it's the same way. Just like I say, by the
40:50
way, I'm putting a whole playlist of your music in our show notes page
40:53
so people can click the link and give it a listen. It's great,
40:57
great stuff. Yeah, yeah, can you speak to that just as a
41:00
creative person. Just that's the upside to technology, right, it is?
41:04
It is. I mean, it's uh, you know, being able to
41:07
put stuff out there that you know, friends in Nicaragua and Europe and Asia
41:10
are listening to and and almost instantly is pretty cool. You know. The
41:16
downside is it's really difficult to break through the clutter as an artist, but
41:21
you know, I found my way. I you know, I've I've got
41:24
a pretty good fan base here in NYC and another one out in the Bay
41:28
Area and and trying to you know, trying to build that. I think
41:31
this next album is going to make make a lot of heads turned, and
41:35
uh, I'm really excited about that. The Underground Music Show is the name
41:38
of the album. That's what I say, the Underground Music Show. So
41:40
let's yeah, let's give let's plug that your website, you know, whatever,
41:45
anything else you want to let the listeners know about. Where can people
41:47
find you? Upcoming tour dates, all that stuff. Well, I'm on
41:51
all the streaming services and we're about to announce some some concert dates but we're
41:55
not ready to do that yet. But the way to find me is c
41:59
H A P E L l uh and you find that on this is Chappelle
42:04
dot com, where you can just find me under that name on Spotify or
42:07
SoundCloud or really any of the streaming services and Apple Music, Amazon, every
42:12
you know, everybody's on everything right now. It's really you know, uh
42:15
so depending on what your pleasure is, you can you can find me YouTube
42:19
as well. Some great videos. Thanks, yeah, yeah, tube.
42:22
So yeah, I do have a link to your website where people can check
42:25
that out too. This was a fascinating conversation and it's nice to talk to
42:30
somebody you like myself. I'm I'm doing the dual thing. I got the
42:32
night to five and I come home and I get to have some fun and
42:36
podcasting and writing and stuff like that. So I've always do and I don't
42:38
know, maybe it's because I'm a gem and I always needed the two things
42:42
I need to like the secure job, but I want to have some fun
42:45
well good, and you're able to do that, and that's like that,
42:46
that's really what it's really about. I mean, and you talk to you
42:50
know, you talk to people who are like, you know, icons in
42:54
the in the music world, and they'll tell you the same thing. You
42:58
Just do what it is that you'd like to do and you'll be happy.
43:02
Yeah. There was an advice that one musician gave to me, and he
43:07
says, follow your heart, but cover your ass. Alan, thanks so
43:12
much, man, This was awesome. Thanks so much, Eric. I
43:14
appreciate your having me. No, no, that was an adventure. I
43:22
was quite as shure you put on the baby. Well, let me just
43:25
close this conversation by saying you are one unique individual,