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Tigers let another series get away in Houston · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome in too, another episode of Tiger Territory, part
0:12
Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network Tigers podcast. I'm careen secty
0:15
Speaker 1: with me as always as a man who is a
0:17
Speaker 1: descendant of Sam Houston, but he just can't prove it.
0:20
Speaker 1: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How are we doing?
0:22
Speaker 2: I don't know if our Detroit listeners know who Sam
0:25
Speaker 2: Houston is, but a father of the Texas Revolution for
0:28
Speaker 2: those uninitiated, and yes, the namesake the city of Houston
0:32
Speaker 2: where the Tigers have lost yet another series.
0:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, early promises, we're there, Cody based
0:41
Speaker 1: on what happened Monday, and we'll obviously kind of get
0:43
Speaker 1: to it. Here's just like a obviously it's not fun
0:47
Speaker 1: to kind of watch the last two games there for
0:50
Speaker 1: the Tigers, But let's start out on a little bit
0:52
Speaker 1: of a fun note. What's the weirdest part of this series?
0:55
Speaker 1: I have a couple of candidates here. Number one, Troy
0:59
Speaker 1: melt and just scratched. Woke up with a I don't
1:02
Speaker 1: know if it was sore stiff. I don't want to
1:04
Speaker 1: misrepresent back, and so he scratched from his Monday start.
1:10
Speaker 1: How about Jake Rogers pinch hitting in the top of
1:14
Speaker 1: the ninth inning, Colt Keith with a three homer day,
1:19
Speaker 1: how about that? And then Tuesday night post game, you know,
1:24
Speaker 1: stretching and you know body maintenance, Wentzel Perez snaps himself
1:29
Speaker 1: with one of those stretched rubber bands and is unavailable
1:33
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. So those are some candidates, Cody of weird,
1:38
Speaker 1: which one is the winner?
1:41
Speaker 2: They're a lot clabor Torres hurts his left side yet again,
1:46
Speaker 2: what else we could probably keep going? I'm gonna go
1:48
Speaker 2: on some Perez. I mean that that'll make a Jason
1:51
Speaker 2: Stark End of the year injury column, and the Tigers
1:54
Speaker 2: are going to have two representatives this year. Jake Rogers
1:58
Speaker 2: busting is out with his own bat in a freaking accident.
2:02
Speaker 2: And then an exercise band hitting you right below the eye.
2:06
Speaker 2: I've never heard of that before. It's going to make
2:09
Speaker 2: me terrified to touch a resistance band anytime soon. I
2:12
Speaker 2: can tell you that I think that's the winner. With
2:15
Speaker 2: a quick runner up of Colt Keith one home run
2:18
Speaker 2: all season and then of course three in one night.
2:21
Speaker 2: That's that's just peak ridiculous baseball right there. Obviously a
2:25
Speaker 2: nice night from Colt and then you get scratched from
2:28
Speaker 2: the lineup the next day because he landed and fell
2:30
Speaker 2: awkwardly on his wrist. So yeah, a lot of weird.
2:33
Speaker 1: Occurrences before his last home run by the way before run.
2:39
Speaker 1: Uh so yeah again, let's let's let's try to keep
2:42
Speaker 1: it a little positive here to start. You know, the
2:44
Speaker 1: funny thing about the Colt Keith three homer game is that,
2:49
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at each swing, none of
2:52
Speaker 1: them felt out of character Colt Keith swings like you
2:55
Speaker 1: had you know, you know, you had the hangar that
2:57
Speaker 1: he just demolished. We know that that's in there. You
2:59
Speaker 1: have the line drive that just just carries the wall
3:03
Speaker 1: in right field, and that's kind of if you've been
3:06
Speaker 1: a Colt Keith defender, that's been kind of your calling cards. Like, look,
3:09
Speaker 1: there's actually a lot of you know, there's a lot
3:11
Speaker 1: of you know, enough barrels there and line drive like
3:14
Speaker 1: his approach is correct, blah blah blah. And then the
3:16
Speaker 1: other one is just you know, hit it opposite field
3:19
Speaker 1: and see what happens with the with the Crawford box
3:22
Speaker 1: there in Houston. Like none of them felt like that outlandish.
3:25
Speaker 1: But all together it becomes like a Damn, col Keith
3:29
Speaker 1: just joined the list of Tigers players. They had three
3:31
Speaker 1: home runs in one game. You know it's kind of crazy.
3:34
Speaker 2: Well, you're right, it was not out of character, and
3:37
Speaker 2: it was kind of a reminder like, oh, Cold Keith
3:39
Speaker 2: can do this. Cold Keith can hit.
3:41
Speaker 1: A little bit.
3:41
Speaker 2: It is in there. Unlocking it all the contact and
3:45
Speaker 2: the power blend at the same time has been a
3:47
Speaker 2: struggle kind of throughout his career. He's had some stretches
3:50
Speaker 2: where he's really got going. The Tigers must have to
3:54
Speaker 2: hope that, assuming all is good with the wrists, that
3:56
Speaker 2: maybe he can get going on one of those little heaters. Right.
4:00
Speaker 2: They could obviously use it, and Cold Keith at this
4:03
Speaker 2: point could probably use it to assert himself for the
4:07
Speaker 2: rest of this year to say, hey, I can be
4:09
Speaker 2: an everyday player for the future, which it's a little
4:12
Speaker 2: too early, but I don't know if any of us
4:15
Speaker 2: have an idea right now what next year's lineup is
4:17
Speaker 2: going to look like. I think it's pretty clear it
4:20
Speaker 2: can't be the same players yet again, although I guess
4:23
Speaker 2: you never know with this regime. But Cold Keith one
4:26
Speaker 2: of those guys who was supposed to develop who's supposed
4:28
Speaker 2: to make the same players a better team. It hasn't
4:32
Speaker 2: quite happened, certainly not in the results column. So just
4:36
Speaker 2: to see that, to see that reminder of oh, yeah,
4:39
Speaker 2: this guy's a hitter. This guy's are pretty highly touted prospect,
4:42
Speaker 2: a pre debut extension that was all for a reason,
4:46
Speaker 2: and the kid can still hit a little bit.
4:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and memory serves that that was an out that
4:54
Speaker 1: he injured his wrist on. So like, you know, like
4:58
Speaker 1: at third base.
4:59
Speaker 2: So the f surprisingly good play at third base.
5:02
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. It's like, you know, you know,
5:05
Speaker 1: we're not gonna do a projection right now, but I
5:07
Speaker 1: can just project that. Uh. In order for a lot
5:10
Speaker 1: of things to somewhat go right, Cole Keith needs to
5:13
Speaker 1: be in the lineup, and they relied upon baseball player.
5:17
Speaker 1: That's that's that's my first hot take going into next season.
5:21
Speaker 1: It's like, you kind of need cold Keith to be good,
5:22
Speaker 1: you know. That's uh, that's the contractually all there.
5:26
Speaker 2: Uh.
5:26
Speaker 1: And and here's the thing, Cody, you know, talk about
5:28
Speaker 1: in and out of character. The series really was quite
5:32
Speaker 1: unfortunately the ind character series for the Tigers because there's
5:37
Speaker 1: an offensive element and then uh and then a pitching
5:39
Speaker 1: element here too. You had some good starts, uh, you know,
5:43
Speaker 1: Anderson I thought did a fine job on Monday, especially
5:45
Speaker 1: in a I guess you would call it like surprise
5:47
Speaker 1: or whatever. Uh, spots start. And then Fromberg, you know,
5:51
Speaker 1: he had some trouble there, but he was able to
5:52
Speaker 1: get out of jams and you know, kind of calm
5:55
Speaker 1: the nerves of you know, going and pitching in the
5:57
Speaker 1: only ballpark he had ever called home prior to this one.
6:00
Speaker 1: And then you know, obviously Casey Miiz didn't necessarily have
6:03
Speaker 1: the most glorious return from the injured list. But again,
6:06
Speaker 1: Cody bullpen being called upon allowing runs or giving up leads,
6:14
Speaker 1: sometimes both, and it just seems to be a consistent
6:18
Speaker 1: pattern for this team that you know, we hadn't had
6:22
Speaker 1: this talk about in this way in a decent bit
6:25
Speaker 1: because June had kind of overall gone so well. But
6:28
Speaker 1: this bullpen, Cody is gonna be nice here lacking the
6:34
Speaker 1: magic touch and the frank part is just not executing
6:38
Speaker 1: nearly well enough in order to stave off like these
6:42
Speaker 1: offensive slumps that are sometimes coming from the team. And
6:45
Speaker 1: that feels like one of the more concerning things because
6:51
Speaker 1: you're supposed to ride the wave offensively. You're not supposed
6:54
Speaker 1: to ride the wave back in bullpen. With the investments
6:58
Speaker 1: that Tigers have made, stay had, you know.
7:02
Speaker 2: This bullpen's a real problem. I didn't love aj Hinch
7:06
Speaker 2: taking cater Montero out of that game either. You put
7:09
Speaker 2: Cater in the bullpen for this series largely so you
7:12
Speaker 2: could deploy him aggressively so you could try to win
7:15
Speaker 2: a game, And for a second there it looked like
7:17
Speaker 2: having cater Montero out of the pin might have helped
7:21
Speaker 2: you win a game. Now, a couple runners get on
7:24
Speaker 2: and he was at thirty pitches. AJ went out and
7:26
Speaker 2: pulled him, went out and put Vesta in. I don't
7:28
Speaker 2: know if he liked just the matchup, something about it better.
7:33
Speaker 2: I didn't have a great feeling when that that went down.
7:35
Speaker 2: Maybe he didn't want Cater going way over thirty pitches
7:38
Speaker 2: so that even though he was already going to be
7:41
Speaker 2: down the next day, and you have a day off
7:42
Speaker 2: after that, you have a schoobl start on Friday, So
7:46
Speaker 2: I don't really see that as the rationale. I don't know.
7:50
Speaker 2: I didn't love it, But the point notwithstanding, like this
7:54
Speaker 2: bullpen is not very good and it is I still
7:58
Speaker 2: believe this single biggest problem Tigers have right now. We've
8:01
Speaker 2: seen every now and again their offense can come to life.
8:04
Speaker 2: They have some guys plenty capable of going and giving
8:07
Speaker 2: them quality starts, but getting a lead is sometimes tough enough.
8:11
Speaker 2: Holding on to a lead has often been a whole
8:15
Speaker 2: different animal. Kyle Finnegan has like a two to eight er,
8:19
Speaker 2: and I really like Kyle Finnegan, but like one of
8:23
Speaker 2: the worst two point zero eras I've ever seen, bottom
8:27
Speaker 2: two percent walk rate, bottom seven percent in strikeout rate.
8:31
Speaker 2: I don't think he's fared well with inherited runners. What
8:36
Speaker 2: is his x CR I'm not sure I even want
8:38
Speaker 2: to look this up. His XCRA is four to twelve.
8:41
Speaker 2: Actually are a one eight seven, so that is a
8:45
Speaker 2: massive difference. And obviously I think we've seen more and
8:48
Speaker 2: more instances of the sheer performance not matching the era
8:52
Speaker 2: for one of the guys who's supposed to be one
8:53
Speaker 2: of your better relievers, but you go lower in this bullpen.
8:57
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know Jacob waggisback actually gave the Tigers.
9:00
Speaker 2: There's two decent innings there in the series finale, But
9:03
Speaker 2: are you feeling great about you also give up back
9:05
Speaker 2: to back home runs in the first game of that series.
9:07
Speaker 2: That's a long way of saying this bullpen's not very good.
9:10
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how it's going to get better because
9:13
Speaker 2: your triple A options are not very good. It's it's
9:19
Speaker 2: a big problem, especially for a manager like AJ Hinch,
9:21
Speaker 2: who generally knows how to work a bullpen, has done
9:24
Speaker 2: it with great periods of success, and it's Detroit tenure.
9:27
Speaker 2: This year. AJ hasn't had many places to turn. It's
9:31
Speaker 2: made AJ look bad and in a few places when
9:34
Speaker 2: he does make a move, it's it's a real problem.
9:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, use the word good there a couple of times,
9:42
Speaker 1: and the lacking like lacking good and you know that
9:45
Speaker 1: you're obviously correct there. But my mind goes to reliable,
9:49
Speaker 1: like I don't know who can I rely on to
9:54
Speaker 1: perform to their standard, like by on an individual player basis,
9:58
Speaker 1: I don't I mean, is Holton probably the closest one
10:02
Speaker 1: to that? And of course we know how Holton has
10:04
Speaker 1: done this year, whereas you know, there's been some roller
10:07
Speaker 1: coaster instances with him. I don't know who is my
10:10
Speaker 1: regardless of situation, who's my like reliable bullpeny guy. I like, like,
10:15
Speaker 1: it's like I don't even want to say one because
10:17
Speaker 1: that could make me look bad the next game. Like,
10:20
Speaker 1: that's problem here, and that's not supposed to be what
10:24
Speaker 1: you know, managing this team, playing on this team, watching
10:27
Speaker 1: this team, covering this team was supposed to be. It's
10:30
Speaker 1: kind of the opposite of what it was supposed to be,
10:32
Speaker 1: and that is obviously a huge problem. Now, speaking of reliable,
10:39
Speaker 1: a guy who used to be ill reliable is going
10:41
Speaker 1: to be coming back soon. And Cody, I gotta tell you,
10:43
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Speaker 1: use it later. Thank you, see keek. Well in the
12:14
Speaker 1: realm of good news, Cody. The fact that justin Verlander,
12:17
Speaker 1: you know, is going to be pitching for the Detroit
12:21
Speaker 1: Tigers and it will be ink America Park, and that
12:25
Speaker 1: is Sunday Father's Day. Could be a great memory for
12:28
Speaker 1: a lot of fans out there. I'm gonna take the
12:33
Speaker 1: positive with it. That's awesome that we're gonna see Justin
12:36
Speaker 1: Verlander again like again in America. But if you just
12:40
Speaker 1: take that part of it, just go into like what
12:44
Speaker 1: are we seeing here? What should we even expect? Because
12:49
Speaker 1: it just it's still weird the way people talk about it.
12:54
Speaker 1: And then you throw in just how long it's been
12:56
Speaker 1: since late March that we've seen him on a mound,
12:59
Speaker 1: in a in a in an MLB game. Setting h
13:03
Speaker 1: what is there even to expect ad Justin Verlander in
13:06
Speaker 1: this first start?
13:08
Speaker 2: I have no idea, or at the very least, I
13:11
Speaker 2: guess I wouldn't set my expectations very high. I'm a
13:14
Speaker 2: little bit surprised he's even making this start, given how
13:18
Speaker 2: reluctant the Tigers have been to activate him. He threw
13:22
Speaker 2: a live bullpen Monday in Houston. How you lead almost
13:26
Speaker 2: hit for the cycle against him? A single at double,
13:29
Speaker 2: a triple. You know, aj Hinch has been kind of
13:32
Speaker 2: straightforward that the stuff, the quality just hasn't quite been there.
13:38
Speaker 2: Even Justin Verlander has been pretty straightforward, like, sometimes it's
13:42
Speaker 2: how he likes it, sometimes it isn't. He's struggling to
13:45
Speaker 2: repeat his mechanics. I would feel better if Justin Verlander
13:49
Speaker 2: at least sounded optimistic. He's the legendary competitor, the guy
13:53
Speaker 2: who thinks he can kind of will himself to anything,
13:56
Speaker 2: and has willed himself to, you know, unprecedented throughout his career.
14:01
Speaker 2: The fact even Verlander is kind of saying, I don't know,
14:03
Speaker 2: we just have to see how it goes. I gotta
14:05
Speaker 2: go pitch. That's all we can do. At this point.
14:08
Speaker 2: That's not giving me a lot of comfort. It's nice
14:11
Speaker 2: to envision some scenario where maybe Verlander does pull off
14:14
Speaker 2: some you know, just sheet feet of sheer will and
14:19
Speaker 2: kind of mixes and matches and dodges his way through
14:22
Speaker 2: like six scoreless, and everyone can go home happy. I'm
14:26
Speaker 2: a little worried, though, because clearly just the overall pitch quality,
14:30
Speaker 2: whether it's fastball velo, sustaining velo through multiple innings, landing
14:34
Speaker 2: breaking balls, clearly it has not been there in any
14:37
Speaker 2: consistent fashion throughout this whole process. Been more than eighty
14:41
Speaker 2: days since he pitched in the major leagues. The vibe
14:44
Speaker 2: of what this outing is going to be is so
14:46
Speaker 2: much different from what it was supposed to be when
14:49
Speaker 2: he was originally supposed to make his return at k
14:51
Speaker 2: Camerica Park that quite honestly, it's kind of depressing. We'll
14:56
Speaker 2: see if there's any magic left in the tank for JV.
15:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it probably will be an honest test
15:03
Speaker 1: of his just like pure adrenaline, because you know, he's
15:07
Speaker 1: alluded to that where it's like, you know, like, look,
15:10
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it's just it's a little bit
15:12
Speaker 1: different when I can, you know, get out there on
15:14
Speaker 1: a major league mound and you know, front of major
15:17
Speaker 1: league hitters and you know, major league fans and all
15:19
Speaker 1: that stuff. And I don't want to dismiss that. I
15:22
Speaker 1: can't say that gives me great confidence, but it is
15:27
Speaker 1: something that you know, certainly could be a thing for
15:29
Speaker 1: somebody who has seen really everything this game has to offer.
15:34
Speaker 1: So so, like I said, I wouldn't necessarily rule that out,
15:39
Speaker 1: but I can't say everybody around them has given me
15:43
Speaker 1: tons of confidence. Like like I said earlier, all right,
15:48
Speaker 1: let's get to Glabor Torres. You alluded to it earlier
15:53
Speaker 1: ten day il same side, left side oblique strain and
16:00
Speaker 1: now credit Evan Petzel for putting this on X and
16:04
Speaker 1: like it. It's one of those things that makes sense
16:05
Speaker 1: but still like surprises you. At the same time, he
16:07
Speaker 1: gave the records with and without labor Torres this year
16:10
Speaker 1: for the Tigers, and with him in the line, the
16:13
Speaker 1: Tigers are twenty three and twenty which the only reason
16:16
Speaker 1: that surprises me, Cody is that, like I just was
16:19
Speaker 1: running out of things to say, like in with this player,
16:23
Speaker 1: this team is above five hundred, like it, it felt
16:27
Speaker 1: like there weren't that many available. Glabor Torres is one
16:30
Speaker 1: of them, and U and even you saw it instantly
16:34
Speaker 1: when he came back. Given that it's Glaber, given that
16:40
Speaker 1: it's an oblique on the same side, and given that
16:43
Speaker 1: it's a left side for a right handed hitter, I
16:46
Speaker 1: can't say, speaking of black about this, and I can't
16:48
Speaker 1: say I am optimistic about how glaber how long this
16:51
Speaker 1: will be for Glaber. And then the flip side of
16:55
Speaker 1: that is is it Hyu Lee time, like a real
16:59
Speaker 1: extended run for how Yu LEI?
17:03
Speaker 2: Well, one thing no one's talking about is Glaber going on.
17:05
Speaker 2: The IL allowed the Tigers to kind of postpone what
17:09
Speaker 2: might have been the fateful decision. Are they going to
17:11
Speaker 2: keep how You Lee or perhaps DFA Jami Jones. I
17:16
Speaker 2: think this what this does is by Jami Jones a
17:20
Speaker 2: little more time. Even though he's over his last twenty
17:24
Speaker 2: one and four for his past fifty seven, he was
17:27
Speaker 2: still on deck to hit for Kerry Carpenter in the
17:31
Speaker 2: series finale with two outs in the ninth inning. He
17:33
Speaker 2: didn't end up coming up, but aj HadAM ready he
17:36
Speaker 2: was still going to roll with him. It's unfortunate for
17:40
Speaker 2: Glaber again, this guy, the whole lineup really is different
17:43
Speaker 2: when he's there. When you have that steady right handed presence,
17:46
Speaker 2: you want to do think ahead again the next year, like,
17:49
Speaker 2: how are the Tigers going to replace that? Even if
17:52
Speaker 2: you don't love Glaber Torres, where are they going to
17:56
Speaker 2: get a right handed bat that is going to give
17:59
Speaker 2: you a quality effort every time? That's going to be
18:01
Speaker 2: a huge question. At the same time, I'm not sure
18:04
Speaker 2: i'd be bringing back Labor. He's again twenty nine, which
18:07
Speaker 2: every time I say that blows my mind because unfortunately
18:11
Speaker 2: he looks older, he plays older, and he is now
18:14
Speaker 2: getting injured like he is an older player, it's certainly unfortunate.
18:20
Speaker 2: I do think we'll be seeing some hoow you Lee
18:22
Speaker 2: and a chance for Lee to assert himself. He's been
18:25
Speaker 2: kind of hot lately. He's shown what he can do.
18:27
Speaker 2: He did let like a twenty three hot ground ball
18:30
Speaker 2: get into the outfield to kind of cost the Tigers
18:33
Speaker 2: the game even when Will vest was on the mounds.
18:37
Speaker 2: Lee can do some things. Lee has some skills. I
18:40
Speaker 2: think the Tigers have greatly overrated Lee, especially compared to
18:45
Speaker 2: the opinion of the scouting community, but they like him
18:50
Speaker 2: for a reason. He can do some things he needs,
18:52
Speaker 2: I think, a lot of smoothing out, and the best
18:55
Speaker 2: way to do that is to let him play. So
18:58
Speaker 2: I will be interested to see see how how you
19:01
Speaker 2: Lee handles this stint and what he can show if
19:05
Speaker 2: he does get an extended run in the big leagues
19:07
Speaker 2: and be a little more consistent playing time.
19:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's funny, like I I've gone just
19:16
Speaker 1: every end of the spectrum with Lee in terms of like, well, look,
19:19
Speaker 1: everybody's organization is telling me this cat like is just
19:23
Speaker 1: a darn good player and maybe not the flash of
19:26
Speaker 1: some of these other other prospects, but like, you know,
19:29
Speaker 1: look what he's done at this age, at this level,
19:31
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. I bought it. And then you know,
19:35
Speaker 1: you watch him play and you're just like, yeah, at
19:38
Speaker 1: you know, against major leaguers, I should say, And it's like,
19:42
Speaker 1: all right, I don't know how many times are we
19:45
Speaker 1: gonna watch him poke one the right field, you know?
19:47
Speaker 1: And then to his credit, like recently, it's only a
19:50
Speaker 1: handful of games, but we're talking about everything's a small
19:53
Speaker 1: sample size when it's him because he's a very new
19:55
Speaker 1: major leaguer and it's like, Okay, I see a little
19:58
Speaker 1: bit more. So I think I'm now like the right
20:01
Speaker 1: level of how U Lee like standard? Uh? You know,
20:04
Speaker 1: when I'm watching him and like I thought he did
20:08
Speaker 1: some good things. I thought, like he plays when we
20:12
Speaker 1: were talking about guys who, like, you know, who could
20:15
Speaker 1: play with an edge on this team, I could see
20:17
Speaker 1: Lee playing with an edge. Like I I like, this
20:19
Speaker 1: is a guy who plays hard, and like everything he does,
20:22
Speaker 1: it feels like he's playing hard, and so like I'll
20:25
Speaker 1: I'll give him credit for that. Uh with the with
20:27
Speaker 1: the play on Tuesday, Yeah, Tuesday night, Uh, what's what's
20:33
Speaker 1: the best. What's what's the main criticism of that, Cody,
20:36
Speaker 1: Because to me, it felt like that was an opportunity
20:40
Speaker 1: to just slide and stop and not necessarily worry about
20:43
Speaker 1: the play. I don't like it was too close to die,
20:46
Speaker 1: Like if he were if he were to die for it,
20:48
Speaker 1: he would have had to have made that decision about
20:50
Speaker 1: two or three steps earlier in my opinion. Uh, and
20:53
Speaker 1: and he and like, obviously he missed it with just
20:56
Speaker 1: trying to backhand, but like, what's I'm curious what you're like,
21:00
Speaker 1: main critique is it? And obviously we're not privy to
21:02
Speaker 1: things like first step and positioning and all that stuff
21:05
Speaker 1: that the coaches would have back better access to. But that,
21:08
Speaker 1: to me felt like the biggest misplay was the fact
21:11
Speaker 1: that he didn't just slide and stop. He tried. He
21:13
Speaker 1: tried to make the play instead of making a better
21:16
Speaker 1: baseball decision.
21:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you have to you have to knock
21:18
Speaker 2: that ball down. I mean, it'd be nice to get
21:20
Speaker 2: to that ball in quicker fashion. He's an interesting defender
21:24
Speaker 2: and that some people really like him. He's done some
21:27
Speaker 2: good things in the field, he's done some some bad
21:29
Speaker 2: things in the field. I think even in his footwork
21:32
Speaker 2: is maybe still a little inconsistent if he can't get
21:35
Speaker 2: to that ball in a better position. I think he
21:37
Speaker 2: got to knock it down, and you're right here, he
21:39
Speaker 2: could have knocked it down and he didn't, and a
21:43
Speaker 2: couple runs score and the rest is history. If you know,
21:47
Speaker 2: Labor Tours is worth plus six defensive runs saved.
21:51
Speaker 1: It's been no crazy. My first defense quote unquote, was like,
21:56
Speaker 1: does Glaber get to that?
21:57
Speaker 2: I think he does.
21:58
Speaker 1: I think.
22:00
Speaker 2: Glabor, oddly enough, has felt steadier than Lee or anyone
22:03
Speaker 2: else they've put out there. I'm fascinated by what's going
22:06
Speaker 2: on with the metrics. I do think there is something too.
22:09
Speaker 2: They're telling him to get to more balls in the
22:12
Speaker 2: hole and telling Torque to not pursue those balls, and
22:16
Speaker 2: that's part of why Torque is minus seven and Glabor
22:19
Speaker 2: is plus six. I think it's a little bit of
22:21
Speaker 2: a you know, a glitch in the defensive metrics. Like
22:25
Speaker 2: Labor's just historically never been that good. But I do
22:28
Speaker 2: think he's been He's been better this season in some ways.
22:32
Speaker 2: I mean, he's certainly always you know, can make the
22:35
Speaker 2: place he needs to make, even if his range isn't superb.
22:38
Speaker 2: So will he be better or worse than Glabor tore
22:41
Speaker 2: Is if he's playing a little more second base. I
22:44
Speaker 2: don't know, is my answer to that question. I think
22:46
Speaker 2: he has the capability to overall be a better defender,
22:49
Speaker 2: but will he be and will he be able to
22:51
Speaker 2: stay under control? Like he plays hard, he plays with
22:54
Speaker 2: the edge. They are legendary stories of him talking trash,
22:58
Speaker 2: he acts like he doesn't know English and he's like
23:00
Speaker 2: using out the other team in English. And in the
23:02
Speaker 2: minor leagues, they're legendary stories about that. But we've already
23:07
Speaker 2: seen in the big leagues. Like, I think his emotions
23:09
Speaker 2: can kind of cause him to to speed himself up
23:12
Speaker 2: too much, and sometimes he looks just a little out
23:15
Speaker 2: of control, whether that's with his mechanics or like base
23:18
Speaker 2: running decisions. We've already seen some of that in the
23:20
Speaker 2: major leagues.
23:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think he then, Yeah, we're kind of
23:27
Speaker 1: putting high standards here. It doesn't appear like he has
23:30
Speaker 1: the arm, the release, the quickness to turn a double
23:33
Speaker 1: play that Labor does. I think Labor too. Yeah, I
23:37
Speaker 1: think I think Labor is a little bit underrated on
23:39
Speaker 1: that given you know what, we all presume are his
23:43
Speaker 1: defensive defensive deficiencies. Yeah, that was hard, they say, Lee,
23:48
Speaker 1: that's something he's going to have to speed up. So
23:49
Speaker 1: it's like in some ways he has to speed up,
23:51
Speaker 1: in some ways he has to calm down. And maybe
23:53
Speaker 1: that's just kind of being whatever. He is, twenty three
23:56
Speaker 1: years old, just kind of getting his feet wet in
23:59
Speaker 1: the major league. So so yeah, I mean, it feels
24:03
Speaker 1: like this could be an opportunity for him. And if
24:06
Speaker 1: it's if it is an opportunity for him, the Tigers
24:11
Speaker 1: have at least enough guys that they might want to
24:14
Speaker 1: see what they can do that it's not like a
24:16
Speaker 1: guarantee for Lee that he could have another stretch right here,
24:20
Speaker 1: you know, a playing time and opportunity, and maybe that's
24:23
Speaker 1: what a guy like him needs. We shot, see, all right,
24:25
Speaker 1: We are going to take a quick break and then
24:28
Speaker 1: after that going to talk about probably the number one
24:31
Speaker 1: frustrating thing about this Tigers offense in the month of June.
24:34
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Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, if you guys could bear
25:44
Speaker 1: with me for a second, It's not gonna take very long,
25:47
Speaker 1: but I'm just gonna read you the run score total
25:50
Speaker 1: for the Tigers in the month of June, so starting
25:53
Speaker 1: with June first, obviously ten eight seven seven zero by
25:58
Speaker 1: ten four in two, one, nine, two, and then on
26:04
Speaker 1: Wednesday two. So that is by my quick calculation, eight
26:09
Speaker 1: games of five plus and five games of three or less.
26:14
Speaker 1: It's a lot, like you know they say, like in
26:17
Speaker 1: basketball make or miss league, Like right now, the Tigers
26:19
Speaker 1: are literally a hit or miss team in the month
26:22
Speaker 1: of June. Because when it's going, Man, we talked about
26:25
Speaker 1: Colt Keith. When it's going, by the way McGonagall two
26:27
Speaker 1: home runs in this series. Uh, when it's going, things
26:31
Speaker 1: look really like they look like the old Tigers that
26:33
Speaker 1: we're accustomed to. The problem is, especially the month of
26:36
Speaker 1: May and then I would say, too many reminders in
26:39
Speaker 1: this month in order to climb out of this hole
26:41
Speaker 1: that they dug, that they just don't have the consistency.
26:45
Speaker 1: So I'm curious what that means to you, Cody, This
26:48
Speaker 1: like sort of wide variance that we're seeing and you know,
26:51
Speaker 1: about halfway through the month.
26:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the unscientific explanation is they finally started
26:57
Speaker 2: to hit some homers and that has dramatically increase their
27:00
Speaker 2: offensive ceiling. They did hit two homers Wednesday, and unfortunately
27:05
Speaker 2: no one was on base. But there's been a little
27:07
Speaker 2: more pop. There's been more explosion in that lineup. I
27:10
Speaker 2: think there's still a little bit of an issue of
27:13
Speaker 2: what aj hinches begun to term connecting at bats, Like
27:17
Speaker 2: can they score if they don't hit three or four
27:20
Speaker 2: homers in a game. We haven't seen a ton of
27:22
Speaker 2: evidence of that yet. I think that's kind of where
27:25
Speaker 2: the the issue still lies. So it's good that you're
27:29
Speaker 2: seeing more slog, you're seeing more ops. As of entering Wednesday,
27:33
Speaker 2: is still the fourth best OPS in June of any
27:35
Speaker 2: team in baseball. But we've also seen some days where
27:40
Speaker 2: they haven't been able to string together anything at all.
27:44
Speaker 2: That still lingers as a problem.
27:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like to me, you know who did
27:53
Speaker 1: we mentioned there? We mentioned you know, like McGonagall and
27:56
Speaker 1: Keith and you know Torque and you know Carrie had
27:59
Speaker 1: a home run. Riley did not, but we obviously know
28:03
Speaker 1: what Riley is at the plate. To me, this is like,
28:07
Speaker 1: it's hard to connect at bats when your lineup is
28:11
Speaker 1: upside top heavy. And what I mean by that is
28:13
Speaker 1: that those guys that I just said obviously have some
28:16
Speaker 1: level of offensive upside labor, you know, you know, throw
28:20
Speaker 1: into that list if he's healthy. Dingler obviously have to
28:22
Speaker 1: mention the problem is that the rest of the lineup,
28:25
Speaker 1: you can't connect at bats when you know Matt Berling's
28:29
Speaker 1: in batting two oh three and win tel Perez, you know,
28:32
Speaker 1: God bless his eye is batting one to eighty. And
28:35
Speaker 1: then the Jamiah Jones thing you mentioned, like there's no
28:38
Speaker 1: connecting at bats when you have Mendoza line level players
28:43
Speaker 1: in your lineup throughout throughout right, Like a couple of
28:46
Speaker 1: weeks ago, we talked about the back end of the
28:48
Speaker 1: lineup doing all the work and one of the reasons
28:50
Speaker 1: that was unique is because it just hasn't happened, and
28:52
Speaker 1: I don't really believe it's happened since so there's a
28:55
Speaker 1: lack of there's a lack of lineup consistency in order
28:58
Speaker 1: to connect there. So that's a organizational structure problem. Injuries
29:01
Speaker 1: a part of that as well. In order to be
29:04
Speaker 1: as fair as I can, and then your high end
29:08
Speaker 1: guys are also a little bit too upside heavy right
29:11
Speaker 1: now with a you know, an exception like a Dangler
29:14
Speaker 1: and a Green where like there's still the baseline isn't
29:18
Speaker 1: as high as it needs to be in order for
29:20
Speaker 1: this to be a playoff team above five hundred team
29:23
Speaker 1: or whatever. So you have an execution problem and then
29:25
Speaker 1: an organizational structure problem that I have just kind of
29:28
Speaker 1: combined for this inconsistency of highs and lows with the lineup,
29:33
Speaker 1: that is kind of maddening. It's kind of maddening.
29:39
Speaker 2: Again, a lot of baseball to play, But sometimes I
29:42
Speaker 2: fast forward. Let's say things continue on a bad trajectory.
29:45
Speaker 2: What is that in the season press conference is going
29:47
Speaker 2: to be like? And I don't know if we'll We'll
29:49
Speaker 2: probably hear from Scott Harris the trade deadline and maybe
29:52
Speaker 2: at the end of the season. I don't know if
29:53
Speaker 2: we're ever going to hear from it much beyond that. Well,
29:56
Speaker 2: I think part of it I can envision being said,
29:58
Speaker 2: while we had Kevin McGonagall and Dylan Dingler and Riley Green,
30:02
Speaker 2: they're three All stars and we have three of the
30:04
Speaker 2: best players in baseball, and that is true, which makes
30:08
Speaker 2: it kind of all the more upsetting that the production
30:11
Speaker 2: the Tigers have gotten from anyone else is near zero.
30:16
Speaker 2: You couldn't have really planned when McGonagall being this good.
30:19
Speaker 2: You knew he was good, but this good absolute best
30:22
Speaker 2: case scenario. Dylan Dingler, the one guy who has continued
30:25
Speaker 2: his development mental trajectory. I don't know if you could
30:28
Speaker 2: have predicted it being this good. So you hit on
30:32
Speaker 2: those two and the pieces you have put around them
30:36
Speaker 2: have generated absolutely nothing. Your ability to maneuver or alter
30:41
Speaker 2: the roster in season has proven futile. Your reinforcements from
30:45
Speaker 2: Triple A have given you next to nothing, or you
30:48
Speaker 2: don't feel confident that you have guys in Triple A
30:51
Speaker 2: who can produce in the big leagues. To me, that
30:54
Speaker 2: is an indictment that you have three of the best
30:56
Speaker 2: hitters in baseball and you are thirty and forty four.
31:00
Speaker 2: Your record in the month of June it's eight and six,
31:03
Speaker 2: which is an improvement over May, but again eight and six,
31:07
Speaker 2: it's unfortunately not good enough to really move the needle
31:11
Speaker 2: at all. Given the hole you have Doug for yourself
31:14
Speaker 2: he lost four to the last five, you now have
31:17
Speaker 2: this offense that has had some highs, still having some droughts.
31:21
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what to make of it.
31:26
Speaker 1: Well, Cody, and to your point, let's look at the
31:30
Speaker 1: All Stars standings that came out earlier this week, and Dylan,
31:35
Speaker 1: you know we could have three All Stars. You know,
31:36
Speaker 1: that's the thing that could be said right well, as
31:39
Speaker 1: of now, Dylan Dingler is fourth and American Lea among
31:43
Speaker 1: American League catchers, Torksen's tenth. Obviously he's not gonna be
31:46
Speaker 1: an All Star. Glabor Torres is sixth at second base.
31:50
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read them all. Zach McKinstry at third
31:53
Speaker 1: base is eighth. Chances are he's not going to be
31:55
Speaker 1: an All Star. McGonagall third, with a decent gap between
32:01
Speaker 1: him and Andres and Menez number two, and obviously Bobby
32:04
Speaker 1: Witt would have the number one spot there among shortstops,
32:07
Speaker 1: DH Colt Keith nine, and then Riley Green is fifth
32:11
Speaker 1: among outfielders. So, by the way, Hobby By is a
32:15
Speaker 1: shout out Hobby's Fandom nineteen. So that to me says
32:22
Speaker 1: that you're, well, we believe that those guys, you know, Green, McGonagall, Dingler,
32:28
Speaker 1: and that they should be All Stars, and Ridley Green
32:31
Speaker 1: is in that category right now. To me, team means
32:36
Speaker 1: that the team's records has sunk the campaigns, the All
32:40
Speaker 1: star campaigns of guys that are certainly qualified. Dingler the
32:44
Speaker 1: biggest omission there to be fourth. McGonagall being third, you
32:48
Speaker 1: would think again, nobody's overtaking Bobby Witt, but McGonagall being third,
32:53
Speaker 1: you would think like this should be like a quote
32:55
Speaker 1: unquote two horse race with the rookie hype level stuff
32:58
Speaker 1: and everything that kind of goes into that. So that's
33:00
Speaker 1: an example right there of just like the ramvocations, things
33:04
Speaker 1: that don't ultimately matter, but they're cool ramvocations of this,
33:07
Speaker 1: like poor start.
33:09
Speaker 2: Blue Jays fans are still showing out. They've had a
33:11
Speaker 2: little bit of a disappointing first half, but I guess
33:14
Speaker 2: it helps to a be coming off an American League
33:16
Speaker 2: Pennan and be having a whole country behind you. But yeah,
33:20
Speaker 2: all jundro Kirk because I head of Dylan Dingler and Andre
33:22
Speaker 2: Simon is ahead of Kevin McGonagall, which is ridiculous. I'm
33:28
Speaker 2: not too worried about it. These guys might not win
33:30
Speaker 2: the starting spots. I would assume they will get spots
33:32
Speaker 2: on the All Star team as they deserve.
33:36
Speaker 1: Yes, And I'm still a little bit of time to
33:38
Speaker 1: determine how that will go. All right, Cody, anything else
33:42
Speaker 1: before we jet out of here.
33:45
Speaker 2: Should probably leave it there. Our next episode will be
33:48
Speaker 2: a little bit bigger picture, which I think will be fun.
33:51
Speaker 2: Hope you guys tune in.
33:53
Speaker 1: All right, yes, and you guys can follow us on
33:55
Speaker 1: X from me on his Twitter at Cody Stapenhagen and
33:57
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Kieran underscourse, Declely at Tiger Territory is the
34:01
Speaker 1: Underscore is the pod page, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, You guys
34:04
Speaker 1: know what to do. We appreciate all of you, so
34:06
Speaker 1: for Cody Stapenhagen, I'm here secretly. Everybody, have a great day.