Latest / Jess Ask / The Power of Belief | FT Phillip A. Sullivan Ph.D | EP54

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The Power of Belief | FT Phillip A. Sullivan Ph.D | EP54 · Jess Ask

0:07
Yo, it's your girl Jessica and Smith and you already know that you've entered
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the safe space for influencers to decompress, have fun and just ask God for
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another Do you already know what it is? And then you know it's about
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to get real, So be sure to show your girl the love and like
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coming God for another day? Hey, hey, I know we could be
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another way. She don't say go. She just started recording. So so
0:43
now you're trying to be smart, y'all. I just told you. I
0:46
just told Oh, she's cute, y'all. Uh, I just hollered at
0:51
but I'm eighty HD. Yo, yo, yo, is your girl Jessica
0:57
as Smith and I am super excited to wlcome you to just ask the podcast
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where we create a safe space for influencers to decompress, half fun and guess
1:06
what just as y'all. We are in the month of May, and you
1:10
know what we're doing. We are celebrating or bringing awareness to mental health.
1:15
Why because May it's Mental Health Awareness month. Before I get into our very
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when I say hashtag, very all caps, very bold, italicized, make
1:27
it loud and proud, baby, we got a very special guest in the
1:30
building, but before I introduce him, Desiree, Hello there, Desiree,
1:36
Hello, welcome back for another episode. She thought she wasn't gonna have a
1:44
mic today, but Kenneth shout out to Pastor Kenneth he he uh showed us
1:52
some love not too long ago and told us that he enjoys the Desirey song.
1:57
Okay, he said, one episode you almost forgot not calling me out,
2:01
not calling me out. It's good to be in the neighborhood, and
2:05
it's good that y'all are enjoying enjoying the recordings the show, right because Greg
2:13
told us we had a show, right. It's not a podcast, it's
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a show, right, So we appreciate you, y'all. Shout out to
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my TikTok family. That's right, Like these folks really like they coming over
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to YouTube and they switching over like they committing. Okay, I see you,
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I see you. I love all y'all. Shout out to each and
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every one of y'all. Listen. If you don't know, now you know,
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I'm doing lunch with just every Monday through Friday at eleven thirty Central Standard
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time. Y'all shameless plug this this community that we're growing on TI Talk is
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real, like we get real every day like no caps. So if y'all
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want to see what we're doing in tik Talk, d Juska and Smith on
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every platform, y'all, y'all haller at me. But let me let me
2:58
get into who y'all if y'all know me and if y'all follow me, y'all
3:02
know why. This man is a special guess y'all. I have been knowing
3:08
this man for over teen years. I can't believe we are old, so
3:13
it's probably it's probably about to be knocking on if I think about it.
3:16
So two thousand and nine, so we're I think it was, no,
3:21
not two thousand and nine. Twenty eleven, Yeah, twenty eleven, So
3:24
that's ten years pus three, So thirteen fourteen, thirteen, thirteen years.
3:30
Look look, because that's gonna give us another year. Uh. And some
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of y'all hear the voice, so y'all know that voice. Y'all know what
3:37
it is, y'all. This man is heaven sent like he is definitely one
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of my one of my best friends, and we have grown together, We've
3:49
seen each other grow, We've been through what I've been through three degrees with
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him if y'all know, baby it is. It is souths dripped out the
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most intelligent person I've probably meant in my life, and so I have none
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other than doctor phill up a sullivant y'all. Oh my gosh, follow up,
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fill up on you. That's Kilda will say, she like, fill
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up on your I can always kind of you to hype me up and give
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me the best intro period where who who? I think? Me and on?
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This could be tied sometimes though, because yeah, yeah, but it's
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just it's all love over here. Why not, though, Like, why
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not? I am so happy to have you here. Listen, y'all,
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I'm gonna tell y'all the tea. So the tea is is that Philip did
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an interview with me. I don't know how long that's been though, yeah,
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because we were in COVID. Yeah, we were in COVID. So
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it's been oh it's been four years, my god. And it was just
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as when it wasn't just ass. It was like I had my phone and
5:01
they see we ain't had no wigaphones. I had a little tripod. I
5:04
was living on campus. Yep, you living on campus, and we it's
5:10
called a saved single no smart saved and single something like that. We'll have
5:15
to tag this that video in because baby, we gave all the tea.
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Okay, people still talking about that episode of when I wasn't really calling this
5:25
thing a show or podcast, and so this, this young man, this,
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this woman, a guy has always supported the movement, and I just
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want to public before we even get started, I want to say thank you,
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like real talk, like you've been down and you down for the counting.
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So I'm grateful for you. How you feeling today? I feel great.
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I feel honored to be here. I mean just to see your growth
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and just witness your evolution, like yeah, thinking back to years ago when
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you had a vision, you had a dream, and like to see it
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grow into this and to see your following and your unity of supporters, like
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it's amazing. Like I'm honored to be one of your supporters. So I'm
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just really excited to be here. I feel amazing, y'all here, how
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boogie said? You say? I am honored to be all right, I'm
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honored to be a far Well, let me go ahead shout a few people
6:17
people because I know they're gonna watch. Shout out to the Sullivans. I'm
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just gonna say, I'm not not the it's all y'all out y'all. It's
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a lot of y'all. It's they hold it down. So I appreciate you
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for coming in, y'all. So you know, we're talking about mental health,
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and it was so important and so necessary for you to come at this
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time because what y'all don't know, And I'm gonna let you say because I
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know I'm gonna miss it. All right, So you have your PhD inn
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Counselor, Education and Supervision. Okay, so what is what does that mean?
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So counseling essentially, So my degree focused on training aspiring therapists and counselor
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educators, people who want to educate and train people on how to become counselors
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and therapists. So that's what my degree focuses on. I work in higher
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education, so I get to apply that to the collegiate setting and working with
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college students every day. So that's it. So you are a professor now,
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So I'm not a professor. I'm an administrator, so I work in
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campus life student affairs, but I get to use my counseling skills having conversations
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with students with parents, with my staff. I get to get to put
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those skills to use every day. There are some precious skills now going going
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through that program. Well, I guess I'm about to tell spill some tea
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because I don't think I said through failary, your girl is currently in the
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program herself. Why have we not talked about that yet? I don't know.
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Well, because of the job that I don't have no more. If
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I'm honest, I know, but only a select few knew. And because
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the thing about it is when you work for Corporate America and then God,
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the reason why I'm in this field or I'm going towards this field is because
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God told me to. And so I was kind of like nervous to even
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like say anything because in sales like you don't have time for anything else.
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Like when you with the position I was in, it was like you got
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to commit to this like an unspoken rule, but no one ever came in
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me about it. So but now I can be loud and proud about it.
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I normally don't say anything. And plus I don't you know how some
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people think they're gonna get a free counseling session because have you ran into that
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film? But that's that's uh, that's not calling me thinking I'm about no,
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no, no no. So I am pursuing my master's in marriage and
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family therapy. So that is yeah, I can feel you on that.
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The skills that you learn are are very beneficial, and I think that it's
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also an opportunity to address yourself like like what kind of experiences did you have
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like while learning? I mean, I'm learning now it's like, hold up,
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I gotta deal with this first. Yeah, I have to deal with
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this first. So can you talk about your experience a little bit as like
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going through the process to get where you are now? Absolutely well, I
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think it's interesting and I'm sure we'll talk about this at some point. To
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think about the stigmatization of mental health or poor mental health in black communities,
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right, especially those of us who grew up in the faith, in the
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church, and thinking about how oftentimes, you know, we're told you don't
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need to you don't need to go to counseling, you don't need to go
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to therapy. You know, you have church, You got God, That's
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all you need. That narrative was not really pushed strongly in my household.
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But it was something that I've just seen, you know, in our community.
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And so I had never gone to counseling prior to being in my PhD
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program. Wow. And so I'm here, I am learning all these techniques,
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learning about the power and the effectiveness of going and seeing a therapist if
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you need to do that. And I'm thinking, I'm a hypocrite because I've
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never been I've never gone to counseling. And so it really took some life
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altering events that happened during my PhD program that really prompted me to go to
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counseling. So my second year in my PhD program, I lost one of
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my best friends. He was twenty seven year years old. Yeah. And
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then I lost my grandmother a few weeks before that. Yeah. And here
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i am, you know, in a PhD program, working full time,
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trying to progress in my career, and dealing with loss and grief in ways
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that I had never dealt with them before. And so in that moment,
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I knew I had to do something. And that was my gateway or my
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entry point into you know, going to counseling and seeing a therapist. And
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so from then, you know, I had the opportunity to really think about
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my life like holistically and and think about my narrative and my story and my
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journey and you know, all of the different things that shaped me into who
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I was, and you know, who I was becoming, and counseling really
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helped me do a lot of that processing and unpacking. That's so, that's
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so good. You said a lot. One of the things that you said
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kind of triggered the thought of the reason why you didn't think to go to
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counseling prior to you seeking out this PhD. Right, and just in my
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mind, just knowing who you are, did your well grounded foundation, I
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would say, keep you or make you feel like you didn't need it,
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or what kept you from the thought of needing therapy, Like what was your
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thoughts on therapy before going down going down this path? Yeah, I think
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it was. I think it's always been my faith, Like I always tie
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everything back to faith, and so I think that I'm someone who, prior
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to going to counseling, prior to go into therapy, I would always pray.
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I would always just believe that, you know, something better would be
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on the other side of whatever struggle I was experiencing and and I really think
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that is what made me not really look into it as an option. But
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then as I began to learn more, I began to think about the ways
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in which my faith and counseling were interconnected. And so my theory, I
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guess, my theoretical orientation, or my theoretical lens is called it's a camp
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called CBT, so cognitive behavioral therapy, and in that it focuses on a
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few different principles, but among those are thinking about unhelpful thoughts or what we
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call maladaptive thoughts, and it talks about, you know, just the power
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and the science behind believing that change can happen and in what can come of
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that. And I think in a lot of ways that is connected to faith.
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And so when I began to see them as as connected, I began
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to really lean into the opportunity to take advantage of a resource that you know
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is available. You listen, let me tell y'all some y'all see y'all that
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ray and my line like it was, it's the part for me where you
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said that there you saw the connection of your faith and this theory per se
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and you made the connection and you saw how it was beneficial to have both
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and not only to just act on your faith and just have the faith.
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But oh, this is so good. I just heard holy spirits say not
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act just act on your faith, but to support your faith. My goodness,
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I've never thought of it like that, because if you think about it,
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and the way I think about it, everything related to cognitive behavioral therapy.
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To me, it's in the book. So like if you think about
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like scriptures, so I would have fainted less. I believe I'll see the
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goodness of the Lord in the Land of the Living. So that is one
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of my favorite scriptures because it talks about the power of belief, like that
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you will see the goodness of the Lord and you don't have to wait for
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it. You'll see it here in the land of the living. But if
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you did not believe, if you don't believe, you can faint. And
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so you know, when I think about that, it's so powerful because again
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it goes back to belief. If I believe that there is something on the
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other side of this. If I believe that, you know, although I'm
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in a dark place or I'm enduring a struggle, that something good will come.
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It can happen, and so I just I believe in that. I
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believe that they are connected, and I just I'm so thankful again that I'm
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now able to see how faith that foundation connects to what I now know about
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mental health and the resources that are out there. This is so good.
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So let me ask you this, So, had you not been through anything?
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Like did you? Had you not been it through? And I'm using
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this word probably likely because I know the degree of trauma is different for everybody
16:26
else, Well, some people consider trauma's other people's like, oh that was
16:30
my regular life. You know what I'm saying. Had you not experienced anything
16:33
prior to that? Or did that open up to what ex trauma actually was
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to you when you actually went to counseling. So it was the latter,
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you know. I think I now have language to be able to speak to
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some of the experiences that I had in the past, things that were trauma
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or traumatizing that I didn't know. I didn't know it was trauma, and
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so I kind of dealt with it in my own way. But I think
17:03
again, learning more, I knew, oh that thing that I went through
17:07
that was a traumatic experience. I have been holding on to something that someone
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said to me when I was twelve, and I didn't realize that that was
17:18
still coming up for me so many years later, and I now realize the
17:22
impact that it had and that it's having on me. So what is so
17:26
for somebody that's listening right now so they know something. Let's say, I
17:30
know something happened to me, but I just I'm calling Oh, I'm just
17:33
strong or I'm just this, Like, how does that affect when you're not
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dealing with it? How does that affect your daily practical walk or your daily
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life. Yeah, I think what's challenging is like, again, sometimes you
17:47
don't even know how it's impacting your daily life. It can show up in
17:51
the ways that you communicate with people, It can show up in the ways
17:55
that you that you treat people. It shows up and you know it manifests
18:02
and stress, which can have physical implications, you know, on your body.
18:11
And yeah, it really just impacts you in a lot of different ways
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that you probably don't even think about because again, you don't really know that
18:18
you're still dealing with that thing. So I think it can have a lot
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of negative impacts on you in terms of interpersonal dynamics. Again, just your
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conversations, your relationships with people, but also it can do a lot internally
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in a negative way. So at what point did you recognize Like I know
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you said you didn't want to be hypocritical and say, oh, I'm going
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to be helping these educators and doing all this stuff and using these skills,
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but I haven't allowed anybody to use on me. At what point, like
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what signals did you feel like inside of you and that people can recognize them
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about themselves, like okay is time or okay, you're ready? Because at
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some point first people have to like be ready and willing or you'll be you
19:06
know, wasting your time and your money. Like if I don't know how
19:08
has to say that that you might say a little bit more eloquent, a
19:14
little bit more eloquent than me, Like, but how do people know that
19:17
they're they're ready to go through the process of therapy? I think for me,
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what what when it became evident that I needed a change to happen,
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I knew it was time, And so I think, I think when we
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have that conversation with ourselves, am I ready? Like am I you know?
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Do I feel brave enough to you know, engage in this experience.
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I think you have to ask yourself how badly do I want to see change
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happen? Because the truth is you may not feel brave enough, or you
19:56
may not feel ready, but how badly do you want or how badly do
20:03
you need change to happen? And I think when you're ready to engage in
20:07
that conversation about desired change and how someone might be able to help you work
20:11
through that process, I think it's time at that At that point, you
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you're talking real good sir, you talk the whole thought desiray about bravery,
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Like I'm not gonna talk because I want to hear you talk because he talks
20:30
so good. Why does it take bravery to go through this process? Mmm?
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For me, I think about the level of vulnerability that are required for
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me to go and talk to someone about the things that I've held for my
20:52
entire life. Wait, wait, wait, I was gonna let you go
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into part because the thing is, Philip, is that we really we think
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we go for one thing, but literally we take our whole self into that
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space. And it's like no one's expecting you to be perfect, like we
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really like, as a counselor, you really expect the imperfections and people like
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me, I'm gonna talk about me, Okay, can go into a space
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and like, oh, I don't want to say this because you're gonna look
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at me in a different type of way, or you might. But I'm
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bringing my whole self, which is my whole life, my whole experience,
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and I'm sharing it with somebody I do not know, because ethically I can't.
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If you know me, I'm telling you, your cousin cannot counsel you.
21:47
Yo. If these folks know you, they cannot counsel you, they
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are ethically wrong. Okay, I go in to somebody that could have all
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these notions and all these pinned up ideas about who I am, and I
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have to share this just trusting that you can help me like that. And
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I feel like that. That's why it is so brave for people just to
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not only make the decision, because it's one thing to make the decision,
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it's another thing to act on it. It's a it's another thing to act
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on it. You are, You are talking so good. One of the
22:23
things I wanted to get into with you, because if y'all can't tell him
22:27
he's a black man, Okay, I'm gonna tell the folks that can't see
22:32
him on the Apple music I have ah, y'all is listening. He's a
22:37
black man and a well equipped black man, like educated, sharp, like
22:47
smart, I mean, just all of it. And so as a black
22:49
man, the stigma specifically with black men, I think, I just I
22:56
don't because I'm not a man, right. What is what are the difficulties
23:02
or the challenges for them? You guys in particular, what do you see
23:06
come up mostly when is the approach of therapy and counseling. Well, I
23:12
think I think several things, one being the expectation that you know, as
23:21
as black men, we don't show a lot of emotion, you know,
23:26
we aren't meant to be too expressive. I think that that's one of the
23:33
things. Boys stop that crying, you know, you know, stuff like
23:36
that messages that we hear as children and you know even as adults. Oh,
23:42
you're being soft, like you know. So I think there's a lot
23:48
of apprehension around feeling like you can be vulnerable or expressive. I think also
23:56
sometimes like as black men, trusting people with our vulnerability and sometimes feeling like
24:03
that might be used against us. I think those are inhibitors or inhibitive factors
24:11
for black men often because again, we have been socially conditioned to uphold a
24:21
particular image or way of being. So I guess my thought is is that
24:33
and this I'm trying to formulate this question because at some point, I know
24:41
it's where we grew up and how we grew up in the stigma. But
24:45
at what point does the man not even well black men specifically, because I
24:51
know it's more even more challenging for them, But at what point what does
24:56
it take for these groups people to make the decision or to feel safe enough
25:03
to make the decision. I think one of the things that I'm really really
25:10
excited about is the fact that we're having these conversations now. So we are
25:17
I believe that we are the generation that is going to normalize being able to
25:22
talk about mental health, being able to speak openly when we're not well,
25:30
right, being open about talking about going to therapy and sharing maybe our experiences
25:37
with that. And so I think it's on us to continue these conversations,
25:44
to talk about how we can support one another and to not perpetuate any of
25:52
those stigmas that have existed for so long giving black men and women room and
26:00
space to be themselves. I think that those are things that we it is
26:07
up to us to take up the mental and and make sure that we push
26:12
for change so that our children don't experience some of the things that we experience,
26:18
and that they don't hear some of the messages that we heard. That's
26:22
so good. So you in the there's the way I got it like on
26:30
Hell and Hell my God. If I keep doing, I'm clearing my throat
26:37
and then the man of God, I got a jacket off God. So
26:41
the past two answers, the previous two answers that you you answered included the
26:48
importance of child development so to parents, right, because I mean you working
26:56
with college students that were once in a space where they were at home,
27:00
they were doing anything, they were doing things, and they end up taking
27:03
their their home experiences to college and trying to develop that space. How how
27:15
can a parent assist? What is the position of the parent, How can
27:19
they assist? And what do you think hinders them from seeking help for their
27:23
for their child. Hmmm, Well, I think one thing that I'm seeing
27:30
now is that parents are are very involved in their well really all aspects of
27:38
their children's lives, maybe to a fault sometimes. So I think that that's
27:44
a complicated answer because I believe that sometimes mm hmm. Let me start with
27:56
the other part of that first. What they can do is have conversations about
28:03
feelings and start early. I for my friends in our age group that are
28:11
parents, I just I really find joy in watching them parent and just kind
28:17
of seeing the ways that they do it a little bit differently. You know,
28:21
there's this whole concept called soft parenting. I don't you know, you
28:25
know, I believe in a little bit of that to an extent. Balance
28:29
is key, But I think one of the things that I do appreciate about
28:33
soft parenting is that there's more room for conversation. You know, how are
28:40
you feeling? Or if you ask a question, I'm not offended, right,
28:45
we can talk about it. You're upset, you're angry, I can
28:49
acknowledge your feelings, and so again, I think just starting early and being
28:55
able to have those conversations. One of my I'm gonna shout out one of
29:00
my friends, Laura. She has two little boys, and Laura I was
29:07
recently at their house visiting with them and her two year old was getting a
29:12
little upset because I brought the now four year old. I brought him a
29:17
birthday gift, and the four year old was playing with the gift and Laura
29:21
was letting him play with the gift, and the two year old he kept
29:25
saying, well, now it's my turn, it's my turn. I want
29:26
to I want to play with it. And he was getting worked up over
29:32
not being able to play with a toy. And I was fascinated because I
29:36
was watching him and like, at one point, he you know, it
29:40
looked like he was about to start crying and like, you know, becoming
29:44
hysterical, but Laura was like, breathe, and I saw I watched him
29:49
and he starts breathing, and he starts doing a breathing exercise. And this
29:53
boy is two years old, and so I just thought that was again fast,
30:00
because you know, Laura is very I just love Laura. She's very
30:07
dynamic and eclectic, and I just think the way that she approaches parenting I
30:11
really appreciate it because she has already taught her two year old and four year
30:18
old child something such a valuable and useful tool that they can use for the
30:22
rest of their lives. Yeah, and so I think having those conversations about
30:29
feelings, doing breathing exercises and other little mechanisms where again we're normalizing expressions of
30:40
feelings and where we are mentally. I think that that just goes such a
30:45
long way. That's so powerful that you bought that up because even you said,
30:48
Laura, I think about Kimball. I think about Kimball specifically Corey,
31:00
her second child. She is very I don't know, I don't I don't
31:06
want to use the word emotional, but she feel like she feels everything,
31:10
like she can discern stuff and she just feels like everything. Like so if
31:15
you're sad, she knows you said, and she might be sad. So
31:18
just navigating. She's navigating through her emotions at this point. And just to
31:22
witness my sister her patience with her kids, and just like it was it
31:30
was one thing one time. I think it was ke when Katie was younger,
31:33
her eldest child, and excuse me, when she was growing up,
31:41
and she said, no, use your words. And that's what what both
31:47
of us are saying right now. Brings me back to the scripture that says
31:49
training when it tells us about train up with child right, And we think
31:53
about in my time when I first heard it, it was always train up
31:59
with child out in the church type of thing. And it's only in the
32:02
church. And it goes back to what you were saying regarding the church being
32:08
the only promotion for health or the only need, the only thing that we
32:14
need to grow mentally and all that good stuff. And so I think it
32:19
is a beautiful stage that we're in where we're seeing parents just really do it
32:24
differently, like not acting out of emotion, but being able to calm themselves
32:31
down enough to have a conversation even in frustration or even and in hard and
32:38
heart in times of hardship. Because if I'm a parent, like man,
32:42
I'm not a parent. I'm a dog worm. Shout out to the doug
32:45
parents. He's a dog he's a dog father, shout out. But I
32:50
can only imagine I'd be stressed out about getting food for more. So imagine
32:54
me, you know what I'm saying. Imagine me being a full loud parent
32:58
with the stage in the stage that I'm in, and you know, kind
33:01
of stepping back and rebuilding myself financially that I got all of this and then
33:08
I got to manage your emotion too, like that's a lot. And so
33:13
I'm even thinking about it now. It's like it's not that they did not
33:17
want to do it back in the day. Maybe they just didn't have the
33:22
freedom or liberty that we have now to present that as an option for us
33:29
or their their parents are presented as an option to them. Because my daddy
33:31
took me to therapy, I told, I told, I'm not letting this
33:37
is not funny, and I have to be mindful of how I say these
33:39
words, because you know, the algorithm be like want to shut it down,
33:43
like let me be mindful. I was I was gonna take a trip
33:50
to heaven quick, quicker than inspected, if you can catch by Jill.
33:54
And so when I told the young girl, the girl that I was gonna
33:58
take a trip to heaven, I didn't know she was gonna go tell her
34:00
mama, who told my daddy? And he was mad, Like he was
34:04
mad because I lied to him, because I told I was scared to tell
34:06
him the truth because I didn't want to disappoint him because I'm thinking all these
34:09
things like okay, and my daddy is a single parent, I don't need
34:15
to stress him out or I don't need to do this. I just felt
34:19
like at that moment that I would it would be better for me not to
34:25
being the equation anymore for multiple reasons. And the reasons. One of the
34:30
reasons was because I felt like a burden, right, And so what you're
34:35
saying is so important and so so real of how it's how effective we can
34:44
be just not just not as parents, but like you said, we get
34:47
to interact and see different avenues that that children around us are taking and how
34:55
do we impact that even with them not being child? You get what I'm
35:00
saying, Like, who child, it's this heat. It's this heat,
35:05
y'all, it's this it's this heat. So or szer what girl? I
35:14
don't know. I don't know if that's gonna work. Give me look my
35:17
little sister here, y'all. Give me some of your your your kool aid.
35:22
Give me mm hmm child, I'm I'm a little party, y'all.
35:29
This is this is so good if you think about a lot of times,
35:34
it's you know, we tend to do what we know, Like even I
35:37
got to I got to stay with my friend for about six months and she
35:40
has twin girls. Yeah, and so I saw a lot of repeated patterns,
35:45
like I even saw like my mom in her Like my mom's idea of
35:51
like love and nurturing was, I just need to work to make sure I
35:53
can pay these bills. Right. Yeah, But you know, I was
35:58
in this space where I got to I didn't have the responsibilities of raising kids.
36:01
I just got to be in the space, right, So there were
36:04
a lot of times where I got to have conversations with them. They're they're
36:07
different to be eleven, that's crazy, dire'ferent to be eleven. And I
36:12
would just engage in their imagination, right, my friendly like friend, don't
36:16
be entertaining that foolishness, that crazy. I was like, friend, but
36:20
it's fun. Like I would just say it's fun. But I could just
36:22
see them light up and just be like, oh man, somebody actually cares
36:25
about what I have to think or say. And so my prayers that me
36:30
allowed allow allowed them to show them something different, you know what I'm saying.
36:35
And I'm hoping that my friend was able just to see something different as
36:39
well, because she literally was doing what she knew, which was she's just
36:43
trying to provide them a better life than what she had, and she didn't
36:45
necessarily have the nurture. She didn't come from a nurturing background. So either
36:51
you do what you know or you overdo what you don't want. You know,
36:57
the Woman of God is all. And I love that you said that,
37:01
and you know that that really makes me think of hm. It makes
37:08
me think of oppression in the ways in which black people, people within the
37:15
black diaspora. Can you go with them, look, diaspora, go to
37:23
Google girls. So basically, if you have African roots, you know,
37:30
whether you're you identify as African American, Caribbean American, if you have black
37:36
ancestry, African ancestry diaspora. So I just and I say diaspora because I
37:45
mean, I have so many friends now who don't identify as like black,
37:51
Black American, like they're their parents are from Haiti or from Jamaica or their
37:58
second generation from Africa, you know. And so the black diaspora, we
38:02
are very diverse, and we don't have we don't all have the same experiences.
38:07
But what common one common thread that we do have obviously is the oppressive
38:14
forces that have worked to marginalize black people since the inception of this country.
38:22
And and what I think about and I'm so glad that brought that up.
38:28
Is you know, as we're talking about our families and our parents, our
38:32
we're not that far removed from slavery, from Jim Crow like it's fresh like
38:40
people you know, I work in higher education. The first black people at
38:45
many of our institutions are still alive. Yeah, And and these people were
38:52
pepper sprayed, they were they received death threats, people attempted to murder them.
38:57
These people are still here. And so when you think about just the
39:05
journey that we as a people have been on in this society, we have
39:15
for so long had to just make do, Like our grandparents worked their fingers
39:22
to the bones so that our parents would have a better life than they had.
39:27
Our parents did the same thing. And we are so privileged to be
39:31
able to be in this this beautiful space, having this conversation with jobs,
39:39
with places to live, single like no kids like that. It just it
39:45
wasn't a thing in previous generations. And so I think that to Desiree's points,
39:52
yes, like our parents did what they knew was best, and they
40:00
the best that they could. And again it's on us to take what they
40:06
poured into us. Plus the knowledge that we have and and provide a better
40:13
pathway for generations to come. You you just you just brought up this thought
40:20
because when we think about giving grace, because that's that's the word for what
40:27
we're talking about, giving grace to our parents, I think we really got
40:32
to talk about what that looks like because I've seen so many times, even
40:37
in my own situation, where I was so frustrated with the decision that my
40:43
parents made or did not make with me and not understanding their mental space and
40:51
until I until God put me in this place, like I always bring this
40:53
up, I brought this up before. But I love my mom, but
40:57
we all know in this room the strength of the relationship that we've had with
41:01
each other and trying to do relationship. We're in a great place now,
41:07
Like I think when I tell you, I thank God for the space that
41:10
we're in. But it took me understanding that at some point my mom was
41:20
a thirty two year old woman trying to navigate through life and at thirty two.
41:23
By the time she was thirty two, she had three kids. Like
41:29
I couldn't imagine having three kids trying to navigate through life, trying to figure
41:32
I just figured myself out. I am just coming to a place where I
41:37
can say, oh, I think I know what I'm doing, or oh,
41:42
my purpose, I'm starting to lift this thing out. My mama did
41:45
get that opportunity. My mama started having to figure out, oh, how
41:49
can I be a good mom? How can I be a good wife?
41:52
And I'm mad at her because she made decisions based on what she had to
41:55
do, what she was my age, and so what are some practical ways
42:00
that we can give our parents grace in those areas but also nurtured them to
42:07
the point where I guess they know that they have the opportunities that we have
42:14
as far as like going to therapy, going to camps, almost like an
42:15
ideal what they call in corporate America managing. Oh yeah. I think one
42:22
of the beautiful things about where we are now is we are able to have
42:30
conversations with our parents about just our perspectives from our from our childhood. Like
42:40
I'm thinking about what you said about how your mom was thirty two with three
42:46
kids and figuring things out. I think about my parents and how like they
42:51
worked so hard, and like sometimes as a kid, I was like,
42:54
well they just they just seem like they're just so tired, or they're in
42:59
a bad mood when they get home, or you know, why can't we
43:01
go out and do this? And my you know, I just I think
43:05
about those times where I really just did not understand, and I fully believe
43:12
that there are still some things that we don't understand, you know, because
43:17
they had been in some of those spaces that we haven't been in yet at
43:22
our age. And so I think, like you said, giving them grace
43:30
and showing gratitude that now preach now, let me tell y'all something. He
43:37
got a little ministry and go ahead, no, but just showing gratitude for
43:46
the sacrifices that they made, for the ways in which they showed up for
43:51
us when we didn't even know that we needed them to be there for us
43:57
in that moment. So I think it starts there with gratitude and just thanking
44:04
them for the foundation that they laid and then showing them Look, and I
44:09
will say this to my parents all day. They created a pathway for me
44:15
to do everything that I'm doing now, you know, in terms of education,
44:21
my career, and even me going to therapy. They we never talked
44:25
about them going to therapy I don't. I don't believe they ever went to
44:30
therapy. But because of the foundation that they created for me, again,
44:36
I had the luxury of even seeing therapy as an option. Wow, can
44:42
you can you go before you go past it? Can you go a little
44:45
deeper in it? Because you said that you didn't see them go to therapy.
44:46
They weren't promote me, but they gave you an avenue. What practically,
44:52
how did that look? Yeah? Yeah, well, for one,
44:55
so I think about my parents' journey, So my grandparents on my mom's side,
45:02
neither of them went to college. On my dad's side, my grandfather,
45:10
I'm not sure if he finished college, but he did some college,
45:15
and my grandmother was a nurse. Both of my parents went to college.
45:20
They you know, decided that they were going to do that so that they
45:23
could create again a pathway for their for their family, their future family.
45:29
So they went to college, and they really instilled in us the value of
45:34
education. And so because of everything that they poured into me and getting a
45:39
good education and me being able to explore different avenues and opportunities about not only
45:51
what I wanted to do in life, but who I wanted to become,
45:54
they always empowered and supported me, and because I mean, who Philip wanted
46:00
to be, and so because of that, I have the knowledge that I
46:06
have. I've had the experiences that I've had because they allowed me to be.
46:15
And I don't take that for granted. Philip, you are in my
46:22
business right now. I'm just gonna I can't say it right now, but
46:24
when you when we get off here, I have something to tell you,
46:28
Okay, because I'm trying to see how I'm gonna say this. At some
46:37
point parents have to realize when they're parental job is up. And I think
46:49
that I'm not a parent yet, So y'all let me know the comings.
46:52
You know, I think that you want to go. I think this was
47:00
Apostle how he might have said this, that at some point you want to
47:04
be able to go from the parent to the advisor, all right, because
47:09
we get to choose who's advice we get to take. And if you're always
47:15
yeah, you're always my parent. But the role of the parental role you've
47:21
been my parent at three does not look like the same thing as out.
47:23
I'm thirty and so I think that what you're saying is that your parents early
47:31
on taught you in independence while they while you dependent on them. That's what
47:39
interdependence. But that's what that means, that's what PhD, PhD me right.
47:46
So it's like when we're able, this is so good and why this?
47:51
Why this? That word I believe and you can speak to this too.
47:54
I believe that word is so powerful in the mental health space is because
47:59
just like you said earlier, I'm able to do this because I believe,
48:04
right, and it gives you an understanding of the power that resides in you.
48:07
Ooh, I'm listen. I've been on this power word, y'all,
48:10
like real talk. And so what is it? First? Second, Timothy
48:17
one in seven says for God has not given us the spirit of fear,
48:22
but of power, love and a sould mind aka discipline. Okay, And
48:27
so when I think about the gifts that God left us, and when fear
48:32
tries to rise up, I need to then I'm not really in knowledge or
48:37
awareness of my power. And that's why I feel like I'm sensing that it's
48:43
a lot of people afraid to go to these mental health spaces or to get
48:50
the help that is needed because they don't understand the power that is in them
48:55
to change somebody's just advising them or walking with them because if you let's let's
49:02
think about it. I was in class one day, y'all, and I'm
49:05
gonna stop ranting. I was in class one day and it hit me.
49:08
The Holy Spirit said, literally, the position of a counselor is almost like
49:14
the position of Holy Spirit. He said, he said when when I left,
49:17
when I left, Holy Spirit, I left him as what he said
49:20
I would come. I'm leaving, but I'm sending a counselor a helper,
49:27
right. And so the position of a counselor is to help you do what
49:31
you want to do. Oh my god. The position of a counselor is
49:37
to help you do and get where you want to get. Is not to
49:43
tell you what to do. And I think that we don't really understand the
49:47
power within that within us. And what you said your parents did, was
49:53
they they influenced the power. Yeah that's real good. Yeah, that's that's
50:05
really good. And when you think about the therapeutic process, really it is.
50:12
It's a co constructive process. Right. I think a lot of people
50:15
go to therapy or think therapy is, Oh I'm gonna go and I'm gonna
50:21
get a bunch of advice or I'm gonna get some opinions, or I'm gonna
50:24
get a roadmap about how to fix my life. It's a co constructive process.
50:31
It is an alliance in which you are working together toward your desired change.
50:39
And so and thinking about that scripture, power, love, and a
50:45
sound mind and and I'm kind of processing all of that in a lot of
50:52
ways. But if God has given us a spirit, if God has given
50:58
us the ability for a sound mind, what resources are we using that He's
51:07
given us to tap into our sound mind that he has wired us for.
51:14
And so you know, yeah, there's a lot with that, and I
51:19
think I could go on the tangent with that, But He's already given it
51:22
to us. So who are we not to use the resources the people around
51:28
us to make that reality. I just felt my come on because the way
51:34
you just put that, it says you already have the sound mind. Sometimes
51:42
you just got to remember what you got. And that's the position of a
51:45
counselor to remind you, to remind you what you are, what was already
51:53
given to you Like that. That's that's that's the guilt of God is to
51:57
be at peace with your self like that is, that's that is the blessing
52:04
of God. That is, when we think about it, that is your
52:07
inheritance power, love, sound mind. A sound mind is supposed to be
52:15
I supposed to be, sund I'm supposed to be at peace right and what
52:19
the enemy and I'm trying not to get to preaching, because y'all know how
52:22
be ti to know? I be. Yeah. Yeah, Yet what the
52:27
enemy tries to do, it's to separate I'm about to I'm about to get
52:31
up. Okay, you listen. The enemy's job is to separate you from
52:40
the truth. And the truth is is that God already gave it to you.
52:45
God already gave you the peace that you need. God already gave you
52:49
the sound that you need for your mind. Y'all, I am about to
52:52
get up out this cheair. God already gave you the authority. And then
52:57
he said, even when you watch this, even when when you don't feel
53:00
that way, or you can't acknowledge it, or you can't see it,
53:04
I'm sending a helper aka a counselor aka a therapist to walk alongside with you
53:13
so you can have the revelation again, y'all. And it's all over.
53:19
It is going back to you know something I said earlier. It's all in
53:22
the messages we've heard, going back to the faith. When the enemy comes
53:25
in like a flood, he will raise a standard, you know. And
53:32
I think of it like him's like whatever my lot thou hast taught me to
53:38
say, it is well with my soul. You know. It's just all
53:43
these messages and I bring it back to again my foundation. And what I
53:49
know now, He's given us the sound mind, He's given us the resources.
53:54
Sometimes we need help leveraging those resources. And that's the function of a
54:02
counselor if you believe that way, if the responsibility of the if is real.
54:10
Yeah, And so the whole purpose of this series, the whole purpose
54:15
of this opportunity to have this dialogue about mental health. And I mean,
54:23
we went through different avenues regarding this space with Philip, but what I really
54:32
got out of it is from you is that the belief system attached to the
54:37
change, Like if I heard if I ain't hear anything else out of the
54:43
space, it's the belief system that it's attached to the potential of your change,
54:51
Like the change can really be what you want it to be if if
54:57
you believe, and so like, man, we could go on and on
55:04
and on and on. Philip, I want to throw something at you right
55:07
now because you always you We're probably about to talk a little bit more after
55:13
this, y'all. And this is not his last time, y'all. Like
55:15
this. This is my friend in real life, and so he will definitely
55:19
be on again. There's a lot of conversations that I want to expose.
55:22
But I really wanted him to come and have these conversations because for when he
55:27
went to school for this, like it's the word says uh. Study to
55:30
show that self approved and studying is not always talking about the Bible. Study
55:35
is showing yourself approved in the field that you are. You are purpose then,
55:39
and baby you, I don't know how high you can go than a
55:43
PhD. I'm just saying here. So I just want to say thank you
55:49
for being here. But before we wrap this thing up, I want to
55:52
give you the opportunity if there's anything that's on your heart, anything that you
55:57
kind of wanted to make sure that the people heard from you, If they
56:01
heard nothing else out of this conversation, what would you like to leave with
56:06
them? Yeah, thank you for that. I think one of the things
56:09
that I'm thinking about as we as I reflect on our conversation, is one
56:15
of the things that we share is our faith. Realizing that not everyone shares
56:20
the same belief system, right, And I think regardless of that, beyond
56:28
that, I think there are tools that you can tap into that that help
56:36
you think about your problems differently. And so I came up with this little
56:45
slogan and I should I don't know, I should probably like not, I
56:49
should probably, I don't know. I'm just gonna say so. It's called
56:54
the ABC's of Mental Health, and it's a littw corny, but just just
56:59
bear with me. And so again it talks about belief So ABC's and mental
57:04
health. A is acknowledge that you need help, that there is opportunity in
57:14
space for you to have someone come alongside you to achieve your desire change.
57:22
And so just that acknowledgment I'm not okay, I need I need support.
57:30
That's that's the A. B is believing that change can happen. I've acknowledged
57:37
that there there is a problem. I've acknowledged that I'm unwell, I'm not
57:40
okay, but I believe something can happen, something can shift. The C
57:47
is for community, finding community, right, So you have your therapeutic relationship
57:54
with your therapist, but also finding community. And that's not the that's not
58:00
saying find people to try to be your therapist, but get around some people
58:04
who want to see you well, who care about your wellness. So acknowledge,
58:12
believe, and fine community. I think that those are very important factors
58:20
or elements to consider when we think about our mental health. And so I
58:23
think that's that's what I would leave people with. Acknowledge, believe, fine
58:30
community. I love. I love when I say love the fine community part,
58:35
because that's why the enemy tries to isolate us, because he knows community
58:42
is what keeps us accountable, accountable to the decision that we made for ourselves.
58:45
Absolutely, and that was not corny, that was so powerful, like
58:52
ABC's acknowledge believe, fine community. I think that that that put the kneeling
59:00
the confidence the folks say, listen, y'all, y'all tell us what y'all
59:06
thought about this conversation, because I know it was a lot. We could
59:08
have went a lot of ways, but I'm grateful that we went the way
59:12
we went because it was much, very much, so needed. I'm definitely
59:15
gonna have a fillip back. We gotta do a part to our original conversation
59:22
because y'all, y'all, we're gonna we're gonna link that that video in the
59:27
description because that conversation was so good and to see us you were in your
59:31
master's program, right, No, I was so just started the PhD program.
59:39
And to see where you are now, it's just so phenomenal, and
59:42
I'm proud of you. I am so grateful for you just for being here,
59:46
Thank you for coming on the show. Man. Baby, they finna
59:50
hit you up. Okay, yeah, he does say speaking engagements. Just
59:53
let me know, tell me and then I'll let you know what his honorarium
59:57
is. Okay, desilray, devil ray, desil Right, my god,
1:00:02
it's so good. So I'm scared for the next one, Hannah, because
1:00:06
we got some we got some fair rippets coming in the building, so I'm
1:00:10
really excited. Y'all. Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode.
1:00:15
Remember until next time. Remember life could be much more simple if you
1:00:22
just ask. I'll see you later. Thank you for tuning in to this
1:00:30
week's episode. Since you've made it this far, you might as well connect
1:00:35
with us on all social media platforms at the Jessica S. Smith. I
1:00:39
know I won't see you back until next week, but until then, remember
1:00:45
to love always yourself and always stay for one day. Thank hey, I
1:00:54
know we could be another way. Thy pray thank God for another day.
1:01:02
Hey Hey, I'm just thankful. Another day. Hey hey, another day,
1:01:10
Oh, another day wise, another day to get it right, another
1:01:15
day to rise up, another day living, another day. We loved ones.
1:01:19
I always remember hold it down for a ball one yep