Latest / Marci talks money (and life) / Building Your Money Muscle: Financial Literacy and Life Lessons with Julieta Duvall

Transcript

Building Your Money Muscle: Financial Literacy and Life Lessons with Julieta Duvall · Marci talks money (and life)

• Marci Grossman (00:05) Hello, this is Marci Talks Money and Life and I am Money Marci. Welcome. I appreciate this opportunity to meet interesting people who are able and willing to share their stories about their financial journeys. And my guest today is Julieta Duvall. Julieta is an alternative education mom and aviation professional who's been living life differently for nearly 20 years. She shares real stories and practical insights on partnering with children and creating a life outside the conventional path. And if you tune into her podcast and social media, you'll find inspiration, guidance, and a fresh perspective on parenting, learning, and living. Juliata and her husband have been through debt consolidation twice because they didn't know how to stay out of debt after the first round. And that was a big and expensive lesson. And most of their lessons have come from their journey into home education back in 2020. Since then, they have worked to peel the layers of conditioning on each aspect of their lives. Julieta now calls that building the money muscle and choosing themselves as a priority. So welcome, Julieta. Julieta Duvall (01:13) Thank you so much Marci, I really appreciate you having me. Marci Grossman (01:16) you have a very diverse life and an interesting story. So I was so glad when you said you wanted to come on and share your story and how asking questions has changed your mindset and your relationship with money, because I am all about breaking that taboo and talking about money, because that's how we learn. Julieta Duvall (01:18) Yes. Yes, and just like you said, it really is a taboo and nobody likes talking about money, especially with children. In my experience growing up was like that. We didn't really talk about money, but we felt the strain that had on my parents, the aspect of credit card debt. as I was listening to you, reading a little bit of my journey is that when I met my husband, a big step in our relationship was to make sure we both didn't have a lot of debt. Like we were ready to combine our finances. We knew we wanted to build a life together, but we both knew how impactful money was to a relationship in a good and in a bad way. we made it like kind of like a date. and we gather our finances and make sure that we were in a decent state, not a lot of debt, and that was that. So it felt like we were on a good learning experience together because we had seen our families struggle for money, and yet we did it twice, actually. It was a very expensive lesson, like you said. Marci Grossman (02:40) Well, know, that money date, I love that. That's something I recommend that my husband and I do regularly where we make it a point at least once a month, usually at breakfast, just because the restaurants are quiet and it gives us an opportunity to go out and change our environment to just kind of make sure we're all in line. This is about our calendars, this is about our spending, this is about our projections of things we want to do, whether it's a vacation or project around the house or whatever else. So it's important to integrate those money dates regularly into your lives to keep that conversation going. yet despite that and the conscientious start you had, you said you still fell into it twice. Julieta Duvall (03:22) Yes, and really the first time was we, so in 2008, we broke up as a couple and we got back together. so as we got back together, we realized that we needed a place of our own. my husband bought his house from his mom, that his childhood home, and it didn't really feel like mine. So I think at that point it was like me thinking that, I was sending a home that felt mine, so we bought a home and we couldn't sell his house. So we fell into real estate because we couldn't sell the home that was, you know, 2008. It was like the financial crisis. So many foreclosures at that point. So we fell into this renting this house and we had no experience doing that. So we did it. And then we moved into this beautiful home in Oxford It was on two and a half acres. So there were a few pieces that we didn't really know. We had never lived in a house with an LP gas tank. We had never lived in a house with a well. And when we first moved in there, the winter months, so LP, are you familiar with LP tanks? Marci Grossman (04:30) Not enough. I've never lived in a house with it, so if you could. Julieta Duvall (04:33) Yes, so an LP tank you have a company come out and this is mostly in remote areas, you know, and they come out and they fill the tank and it's a bill. So usually in the winter months back in 2000. So we move it in there in 2009. So 2010 we were filling the tank for $600 a month. It was expensive, it was the price of the tank, but we also had windows, we had wood casings that the seals were broken, there was no heat. The house was not being heated, heat was just going out through this windows. So we had a $600 bill on our monthly expense and we had this windows. that they quoted us because we had so many, I think back then it was like $35,000 to replace. I'm like, where is this money gonna come from? So we kind of went on not really seeing, I feel, we were both afraid to look at the numbers. And we got to a point where we would pay our bills and then after that we would have $30 left. for the next two weeks, we both got paid sometimes on the same date and sometimes cycles fell that we get paid every week. He got paid and I got paid. We had no children at this point. it felt like we were just living, but also we didn't really wanna make change. And finally we were forced really to make this change. So we entered debt consolidation at that point and It was a relief because when you entered debt consolidation, what they do, the company negotiates your credit rates because we were at credit rates for 22 percent, 20 percent, and they negotiated down to like 2.5 percent, 3 percent. So we were doing one lump sum payment to this debt consolidation company. And it felt like a relief. But here is the thing, too. Our goal at that point was to get out of debt. We didn't look, which is what we're doing now, how the money muscle is being built, what I call, we didn't look at the patterns of our spending. So we were both emotional spending. And I find that some people, we are conditioned to pay our bills first thing and foremost. And we are conditioned to pay other people first. So we pay our mortgage, we pay our car payment, we pay our cell phone, our internet, we pay other people first. we had no money to save for ourselves. And we had no money to, as you could say, when you buy something and you say, well, I deserve it, I work for it. We had no money or no bank account, no savings that could hold those purchases for later. So they were emotional spending purchases and they were completely on credit card debt because we had paid everyone else and we forgot about ourselves in the process. Marci Grossman (07:35) But what do you say to someone who says, you know, okay, so I make, we're gonna make it round numbers even though it's not realistic, I make $1,000 a month. And if I pay myself first, then I can't pay the mortgage, the cell phone, the car payment, the required bills. So how do you pay yourself first and yet pay on all these required things that you owe? Julieta Duvall (07:56) So the way I see it is I dream big, but I start small. If I cannot save, because sometimes I can't really even sometimes my husband, since we began home education, we had to adjust the way we work so we can be home with our children. And that shift really pushed me into that direction where I knew that if I can only save $20 for myself, then that is helpful at that moment. But what helps build and grow that money, it's knowing where your money goes. banks actually don't make it easy anymore to find out where your money goes. So if you have an Amazon account and you start buying stuff on Amazon, you cannot go back to your bank account and track the item that you had purchased because it only says Amazon, you know, a whole bunch of numbers. It doesn't say Amazon. like for example, Sheets or Amazon slash Two Books or something. So it's just all one lump sum. And actually Chase, at some point, you used to be able to put the name of whatever store, you know, like Home Depot or something, and the charges by the store would come up and you can't do that anymore. So that we live in this society that They don't make it easy for you to track your money, but they make it easy for us to spend it it took me a while because people would come into my bank account and they would put me into overdrawn situations at some point I remember back in my days of early flying when I wasn't making a lot of money I remember a $4 charge cost me $35 because I didn't have enough money but I didn't really know. And that is like you say, when you have that money date, we are afraid of looking sometimes because you know there isn't enough there but you have to look. Like that is the biggest piece for me. Marci Grossman (09:49) So when you say people come into my bank account, I'm pretty sure you don't mean random people are just coming by your bank account and taking money out. Julieta Duvall (09:54) Yeah, no, no, no. Yes, it's just companies though. So for example, a car insurance will make it less expensive if you set up your automatic withdrawal, right? The money, they come in. So it's okay for them to do that. And the way I see it is like, for example, Spotify, I love Spotify. I love my music without ads because when I write, I have a playlist and I just... right? And this ad would come in the middle of it and I would just lose my mojo. So I am totally okay with them coming into the bank account and paying for the service. I'm paying for a service and I really value that service. So I also know that they come in at a certain time of the month. So in my in my budget weekly date that I have I know that Spotify may come out next week. So my bank account is set up for that payment. But when I didn't look, when I didn't want to know, because that really that's where I was at, I did not want to know. I would get paid. I would pay some bills and then I would just spend, spend, spend. And next thing you know, I had zero money. And I'm like, well, what did it all go? And it was it was hard to navigate those changes because I wanted the reward fast. Christmas, for example, the last quarter of the year is the quarter for fundraising. That's when everyone does their fundraising. And there's a big push for people to be grateful, but also for people to spend. And it's almost like a free for all. You know, it really is, you know, it's almost like a free for all because once you start into, for example, Marci Grossman (11:26) Hahaha! Julieta Duvall (11:32) Halloween. Halloween usually can start the season of spending so you have Halloween you have Thanksgiving you have Christmas and the next thing you know January people are starting to get the feeling of the overspending. My husband and I we would have the hardest times January and February were the hardest financial times for us because we would do those emotional spending in October and November and then our son was born his birthdays at the beginning of the year and then with Christmas, ooh no, I mean I am in deep trouble sometimes so I have to carefully plan for that otherwise it just feels like too much. Marci Grossman (12:12) Do you have multiple bank accounts? I often tell people you need multiple bank accounts. This is the one for holiday spending. This is the one for household emergencies. Having those multiple bank accounts allows you to see how much you have. It creates your budget better than a worksheet does, because then it's very real. Julieta Duvall (12:29) Yes. Absolutely, I highly agree with that as well. The way I do my money muscle I have four quadrants. My upper left is for my family, what I call family first. And my upper right is for our shelter, our home, right? Because if I cannot keep a home, a roof over our heads, then we are getting to a different story. And then my lower left is about food and gas. and my lower right are the variables. So those are the things that you go in and out of it. For example, for us as a family, we use a trampoline park quite a bit during the winter. So in the winter, we sign up for their membership. And I know that's my variable. That's something that's there, but it's not fixed. Like it's not every month. So I know I do it for six months and then we cancel. because we don't go enough. So there's no reason for us to pay for something that we don't use. And the food and gas quadrant has its own bank account. And that includes my food when I eat on the road, when I'm at an airport, which eating at airports is extremely expensive, or eating in other cities, when we go out to eat, when we go to the movie theater, all of that kind of comes out from that. And I usually have... a two week spending budget for that. everything gets in there. And my upper right quadrant, my shelter, so your water bill comes usually quarterly. Where in the state of Michigan, it's quarterly. So what I do is I have a fixed amount that I send every time I get paid. Because nobody likes to get a $300 water bill every quarter, right? Those expenses are the ones that will get your insurance bill if you pay it out of pocket and you pay like every six months You're looking at a six hundred, seven hundred dollar bill Most of us are not really prepared to do that So I break it down into my little pieces. So I give fifty dollars to DTE I think I have sixty dollars for the water $80 for gas for consumers because gas is expensive. It has gone up gradually. And I think this year we got maybe one or two increases already. So it has gone up. So by doing the small amounts, every time I get paid, I don't have, when I get the statement, I generally have a credit. And I assess to make sure that we don't have too much. of a credit because then I'm giving them money that could be used for something else. So I go little by little, but I have to look and believe me, I did not want to look. I mean, nobody likes to look, I was paying for stuff that I wasn't using. I think we got ABC mouse at some point when we first started home educating and I was paying, I don't know, I think at one point it was like 9.99 and it would come from the iPad. So it would come through Apple and those memberships are the ones that will they will sneak up on you. I would assess when I first started this process, the first step was knowing where the money was going. I'm like, so we do make a decent living. Where is this money going? Because I sure feel like I'm not making anything. So I was feeling frustrated, you know, so knowing where you're where the money goes kind of Marci Grossman (15:38) Hahaha. Julieta Duvall (15:44) guide us where we are today. Marci Grossman (15:46) I think that's real important and a lot of people get frustrated because they see, I need a year's worth of spending. Well, that's fine. I'm not telling you to go back a year. I'm telling you, I don't know, start at the beginning of the month, start at the beginning of the week, start where you are now and tracking that expenses and you'll build that week, that month, that year's worth of data over time. And when you know where your money's going, you can start, Julieta Duvall (15:50) Yes. Yes. Marci Grossman (16:12) tweaking your plan. Don't wait until you have all the data to make your plan, but certainly continue to tweak the plan and make it better as you go along because you do want that money for the fun things and you do want the money for the long-terms, for the bigger expenses in your life that might happen. It's so important to just keep on plugging away at it and it pays off. It pays off having that knowledge and understanding where your money's going because then you can make better decisions about what you want to do with it. Julieta Duvall (16:41) it certainly does pay off though because. your time, you're trading your time, which is very valuable and very finite because we all have just a finite amount of days on this earth. So you're trading your time for that money. And that's okay if you know how your money is going to be used or how you want to use it. It doesn't matter if you want to buy a pair of shoes every week. You can still do that. But you are making that conscious decision that that's how you want to spend your money. And that's okay. I mean, you know, we all have different likes I have two hobbies. I have buying books and reading books. Buying books is a whole different thing. I love buying books. Like I literally will go to a bookstore and just buy every book. I don't always read them, but I get such a satisfaction from buying them. So it doesn't matter what it is, but if you start to work your wish list within your budget then it becomes something that's permanent. So it's not something that you're going to be doing once a year or every six months in big amounts. And I think that's kind of what we tracked down for us was the big purchases that would come about October and November. And then some of them in the middle of the year with summer, with spring, we would start feeling like we needed something for the house that needed to be done. we would do big purchases like appliances or something big in the summer, So we had a Home Depot credit card for a very long time Don't do it. I don't recommend it so we tracked our purchases were emotional because we felt that we needed to reward ourselves and we did and we do but now it's more of a conscious aspect that we do so Yeah Marci Grossman (18:27) You said growing up, both of you came from families that had had credit card challenges and whatever else. in spite of the challenges, we all learned positive lessons too from somehow about how your parents did, whether it was because even though their situation meant they had debt and credit card debt and that was challenging, but you saw them openly communicating with each other or. trying to work through it even if they didn't make progress or whatever. What were the positive lessons you saw about money growing up? Julieta Duvall (18:56) that's such a great question because most people always ask like, you remember the negative aspect of it. I think one of the positive aspects that I saw is about money is that money isn't everything. It's a tool to help you do stuff, but my parents really prioritize spending time with our friends, as a family. My dad would always say it's just money. it's not a big deal. And my mom obviously would be like not on the same page because she was the one doing most of the budget and stuff like that. And so she was the one that had to sacrifice a lot because my dad was actually the one that would spend money, you know, through credit cards. But some of the family times that we have as a family were spent on credit cards. So I got that legacy almost that prioritizing time of your family through credit cards was okay because you were important even though there was like no preparation could happen. My mom is actually really good with money, but I think they didn't work together the way they could have and they are still together. and they still fight about it. And my dad just kind of walks around and just, you know, kind of waves. But my mom was really good. I think if my mom had been given the freedom to work with the money the way she would have liked, I think their situation would be a little bit different right now. But, you know, there's nothing like the present, so they're still working through it. Marci Grossman (20:22) Well, that's okay as long as they're still working through it. mean, so many times relationships have significant issues because of money, especially when the partners have different values. But they're still communicating and working through it, and they both believe family was a priority. So those were great lessons to grow up with. you know, the patterns of where we come from, the roots of our own things, even if we don't realize it, we learn about money. Julieta Duvall (20:29) Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Marci Grossman (20:49) even from the things we're not aware of The subconscious, we saw the values of our parents regarding life, regarding family, regarding money, regarding the choices they make. And then when you're working your money muscle, you're pulling up things from the roots to kind of examine them and determine how to get from where you are to where you wanna be. So it's all part of one big. Julieta Duvall (20:55) Mm-hmm. Yes. Marci Grossman (21:13) or river or whatever analogy you might want to use for it. Julieta Duvall (21:18) Yeah, it's all part of it though. without their experiences, I don't know that we would have gotten our own journey, but the credit card definitely started to bring some questions because that's not the way I wanted to live, It really isn't the legacy I wanna leave for the boys either. Like for example, my father-in-law, his wife passed away. and he didn't know that she had like five or six credit cards so he got stuck because he trusted her but she got some credit cards some with his name and some without so when she passed he got stuck with the ones that his name was attached to So there was really no communication there. And some of the things that we do in our home now, it's like openly talk about money. There's nothing wrong with getting paid for something that you do. There's nothing wrong with receiving the money. And often that relationship with it, it's very troublesome with money. Like I think if money was a person, it would just be like you're constantly fighting with it. but you want to be friends with money and you want to know where your money goes and make the money work for you and the same thing that your time making it work for you so you can live your best life possible. And obviously we all have different circumstances. it's hard. I see on next door is like people losing their jobs, people not being able to have enough food. I completely agree. There's so much at work right now. Prevents us from really living our best life But we can only control what we do and once you start looking at your own Situation where your money comes from where your money goes and how you want to spend it Then you begin to shape the life that you want Marci Grossman (23:04) No, that makes sense. you talked about that before you got married, the two of you sat down and talked about your debt and your values. I've heard horror stories of people who have gotten married and that's when they find out that their spouse has significant credit cards, significant student loans, And that's not a pleasant surprise to deal with when you both just overspent on a wedding and honeymoon and whatever else because... Julieta Duvall (23:25) No. Marci Grossman (23:29) you weren't necessarily aware of the overall picture. Julieta Duvall (23:33) Yes, and that is so, important because if you don't work together, then you're probably not going to go very far. And like you said, I think maybe still a few years ago, the statistic was that money was the cause of divorce of most. marriages. So I'm sure it's still pretty high my husband and I have been together for almost 20 years. So we met in 2005. And the hardest times that we have had as a couple have been during the low times of our financial problems, right? before getting into debt consolidation? and during some of the rentals. So when we acquired that first rental, we eventually then bought another one back during the time 2008 and we wanted to fix it so we did. My husband's very good, he's a very, very, very talented person when it comes to construction building knowledgeable. So he did all the work. So some of the credit card debt that we acquire were because of the houses in hopes that we would build a portfolio of rental homes. And It was really hard to go through that because he would go to work, then he would go to the house. And then I was away on a trip or something. So I wasn't really contributing too much. He would almost get upset when I would go to the house because I would start working on something small, obviously. And then I would sit down and I'm like, okay, I think I'm done here. And I would leave and he still talks about that. And I'm like, there wasn't really a lot of communication back then. You know, like I did my job. Marci Grossman (24:55) You Julieta Duvall (25:04) as a flight attendant and I had to be away back then I switched from one airline to another so I took a huge pay cut by moving to a different airline so I had to make up that money by flying more so I was flying back then like I don't know like 150 hours, which is a lot so airline people usually work about 80 hours a month and then I was breaking like twice that It's just a lot of flying. So I was tired and he was like, well, you're just out flying around. I'm like, that's tiring too. You know, that's yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty hard job. Not only the being in the aircraft, but just being around people, being at the airport, going from hotel to hotel. And that's, you know, 20 years. I finally started feeling them. Marci Grossman (25:33) That's not how it works. I've seen stewardesses. They work pretty hard. Julieta Duvall (25:49) the aches and like rotator cuffs is usually one of our biggest issues from our bags and from the overheads and all that so some of our debt came from those moments but some of our issues also came from that because we weren't communicating on what we were doing where we were going like we were doing that we were redoing the rental house but what was that for did we have a specific purpose? And I think that's when by building my money muscle now it's like I have short goals that kind of move me through the budgeting process. I have the goal of, for example, a certain amount in your savings that makes me comfortable to have a certain amount for my emergency fund. because I've been on both ends. I've had that amount set aside and I feel different versus when I don't have it. Oh, I feel completely, I just feel like living on the edge. living like this. So I just kind of go through the small goals as to how I want our life to be. and how those building blocks are set up and you may not want a big savings account and that's okay if you don't want it, that's okay. But my car just broke down and they quoted me $34,000 for a new engine. Yes. Mm-hmm. No, no, $34,000. Yes, $34,000. Marci Grossman (27:04) 34,000 or 3,400. What kind of car are you driving for a $34,000 engine? Julieta Duvall (27:11) a 2013 hatchback BMW that I fell in love with, but it was also an expensive lesson because the maintenance every time, it didn't break down often. I didn't buy it new, it was new to me, but the maintenance on the car was about 3,000, 3,500 every time it went in for something. because of different reasons so I knew that and I had a separate account for the maintenance I knew that I needed to save money for that and I was happy doing that but obviously right now at this point Thirty four thousand dollars is completely out of the question So now my next step is what are we going to do? Do we need a second car is the insurance where there are all of those little questions before I go into a dealership and get sucked in by a really good salesperson into buying something new I'm just not really ready for that. So I'm just taking my time with that because that's a big decision and I highly recommend for big decisions big purchases like a house especially a house Take your time. Take your time and go visit that house. Like I don't know more than More than three times when you purchase a house You see it for the first time you fall in love and then you see it for a second time perhaps and then a third time if your offer is accepted and then Do a final walkthrough upon closing. That's almost four times before for this Incredible expensive purchase that you're about to make you see that real estate four times It should not be four times. You should be able to sleep in that house for like two nights before you buy it. Seriously. Marci Grossman (28:50) You know, a couple of years ago we looked at maybe moving and there were a couple of places that my husband and I liked. And then when we went back the second time and we took our sons with us and it was like, yeah, no, this isn't what we're looking for. So we didn't need to sleep in it But that second time, if you're not more excited the next time when you go back. then it's probably not the house for you. You should get more excited, more connected, more whatever. And take your time on the big purchases. The problem is for a while here, houses were selling so fast. I had friends that were looking to move and numerous times they'd put bids. They put in bids over the asking price. They would stand on their heads and whistle and whatever else and Julieta Duvall (29:29) Yes. Marci Grossman (29:34) they were losing houses again and again because the housing market was so crazy hot. But even so, unless you need to, you know what, if the housing market is hot, that's a great time to not be there because that's when the houses are more expensive than what they reasonably should be. Julieta Duvall (29:39) Mm-hmm. Yes, it is so true and people were doing the no appraisal guarantee which you know if the house appraised for a lower value they were still going to buy that house by bringing more money to the table and to me It just didn't, like you said, some people really needed to purchase another house, but if you don't really need to, then maybe that it's really isn't the property for you. You don't want to give more money than something is worth or get into a new house and be underwater already according to the numbers of what the bank thinks the house is worth. So. It was really really crazy for houses. We moved five years ago So that was the other The second time we got into debt consolidation. It was it's always been real estate related Mostly because of big expenses that stuff that needed to be done. We moved five years ago into this house We live in an old home. It's a tudor home. It's almost a hundred years old. It's beautiful and everyone says it has so much character Let me tell you Character is expensive. It is very expensive and while the house has really good bones, it really came to us with neglect because they didn't really take care of it. A lot of neglect and houses speak to you. Marci Grossman (30:52) Yes. Julieta Duvall (31:06) I know they have energy. You probably think I'm crazy, but I am telling you houses have energy and the energy of this house was that it needed a lot of work. It was suffering and my husband, call him the house whisper because my husband goes into houses and he's like, yeah, the house is not happy. And he just, he just really, really takes the needs of the house as far as like structures, know, walls, all of it. So we had to do a lot of extensive renovations into this house. They're all under behind the walls. Like the expensive stuff in your home will be behind your walls and underneath in your mechanics. your furnace, your water heater, all of that. You want all of those little pieces to work just beautiful so you can enjoy a peaceful environment. Marci Grossman (31:54) and you want them safely. mean, a hundred years ago the wiring requirements, the electric things you would have had in a house, would have been so much less so. So yeah, you're going behind the walls to bring these things not just up to code for some bureaucrat to rubber stamp but up to safety because we know better. Julieta Duvall (31:56) Mm-hmm. Yes. To safety, yes, yes. And bad electric has caused fires in the past. So yes, you wanna make sure that all of that is safe. But yes, most of our debt that now that I'm thinking about it has been real estate related. There was probably a few splurges on stuff, vacations or whatnot, but it really wasn't like that. it wasn't until I realized not only that I wanted to get out of debt, but also how to stay out of debt that I really learned my lesson. the second debt consolidation. That's the lesson it gave me. So my goal wasn't just to get out of debt. That was the goal in the first time around. The second time around was to get out of debt, but how to stay out of debt. And I feel like that's not something that people really... think about because even your credit score doesn't let you get out of fully because if you're fully debt free your credit score will suffer and you won't be able to buy something so there's a balance there in your credit score that you have to have some debt. And I'm like, well, why do I need to have some debt? So I started asking the questions and I just want to be able to make my own decisions. Marci Grossman (33:15) Ha Julieta Duvall (33:21) So that's kind of where I'm at. So I want to be out of debt and I want to stay out of debt. And to me, by staying out of debt, it's by paying ourselves and our family first, making sure that our structure is nurtured, whether it's with maybe an outing or something, but always doing something to nurture our souls before I give my money. that I work very hard for to other people that I don't even know because I don't know my mortgage company. I just get a statement and they say, well, give me some money. And I'm like, well, OK. it's just my own version of my my best life. That's my version of it. I want to know where the money goes and I want to be able to give it to services and people that I know. Like I love going to our small businesses and knowing where my money ends up. in buying stuff from people that may have used it once and now I can give it a second use, I know where my money ends up. I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon, but I stopped our Amazon membership maybe last year, I think. So I haven't had an Amazon membership. So whenever I buy something, I'm very much more conscious of who I give the money to. Because like I said, I work very hard for it. Marci Grossman (34:34) You've talked about debt consolidation and that you've gone through it twice. ⁓ I've heard from a number of people that they've had bad experiences with debt consolidation. It sounds like yours was positive both times. So how were you able to find companies that were legitimate, that took real care of you, that you didn't walk away from it feeling that you had just been scammed? Julieta Duvall (34:38) Mm-hmm. Yes. You know, that's a great question. I like to say that I like to take credit for it, but I cannot. It was my husband who did the due diligence to find it. We went to the company. It's called Green Path and their structure is just like I said earlier, they negotiate the company, the rates with the credit card companies, and I think we get charged $50. month or that's their fee. So there is a fee to it, but it's all, you know, rolled up into your into your monthly payment. And they do the snowball effect or the snowball tactic, which is every credit card. If you have five, your monthly payment will get, you know, divide into five payments. And once the lower the lowest balance credit card gets paid off that amount that they used to receive now gets moved over to the one with the lowest balance at that out of the four now He did all the work. that is the company that we went through it the two that we have been through debt consolidation, we use the same company. And I've recommended that company to other people that feel that that's an option. I also think that's a personal decision to go through it because your credit gets, frozen. if you try to get another credit card, if you get another credit card, then the deal you have with the credit cards and with GreenPath will be cancelled out because you're seeking credit elsewhere. Also, I believe it doesn't prevent you from buying a house, but it shows up and it may prevent you from purchasing a car. So the second time we make sure that we had everything that we needed before we went into this frozen dormant state for credit. But I'm hoping to kind of just keep it that way because... that's not how I want to spend my life nowadays I will spend less so I don't have to work more. So I'm very conscious about that. And I wasn't like that before. I just always just spend, spend until, until my heart was full, but I don't do that. Marci Grossman (37:01) I tell people, do you really want to be paying for today's meal three months from now? Because if you're buying it on credit card and you're not paying the full balance, then that just becomes part of that big ball you're throwing money at in the hopes it'll eventually work its way down. The reason that you have to have credit to get credit to get these loans, whether for a house or car or whatever, is because they have to see a history so that they know Julieta Duvall (37:06) Yes. Yes. Marci Grossman (37:27) that you will make those payments. But on the flip side, you don't want your history to become the overwhelming mess that is where all your money is going. ⁓ If you own a house and you're paying a mortgage and if you have a car and you're making a payment, then you're already building that credit. You don't need five more credit cards. Julieta Duvall (37:37) Yes. Marci Grossman (37:46) if you're young and you are just starting to work, maybe you're living in your folks house still, then get a credit card, use it periodically, pay it off monthly so that you're starting to build that history so that when you want to look at getting a car or a house or whatever else, they may not see a huge history but they'll see a history, they'll see the intention and the organization and that you're making these payments. It's too easy. I when I went to college, you know, you barely started and the next thing you knew you had 10 credit card applications at your dorm mail. And I knew people that by the end of the first semester were already in debt that they would carry with them for 10 years after graduating. And they were still getting more credit card applications because that's just the way things were done at that point in time. Julieta Duvall (38:17) Yes. Yes, and they come hard at you so I think that's why it's also important to share those topics when you're growing up because a lot of us, I mean, I knew my parents had trouble, but I didn't really understand the whole. aspect of it. So I just knew that a credit card could get you something and then I had to pay you back and if I didn't I would probably have bad credit but I wasn't really fully thinking it through per se. So when you're just given the freedom to spend money or it feels like the freedom to spend that it just kind of gets out of control because you've never had that freedom before. You've never had that ability to do something like that. in combination with the student loans and credit card debt, it's just a combination for disaster. when you're just kind of get wrapped up into that because we're afraid to talk about it and to share the learning. It feels like we're going to be seen as like, you just don't know anything. But I'm like, if anything I can share from this experience is for you to take whatever resonates. Obviously everyone's experience with money is different, but if we could just talk about it a little bit more and just help them decide how they want to live their life, then maybe they'll be like, well, maybe that credit card isn't for me or, you know, just doing things differently. That's all. Marci Grossman (39:50) Now before we want to wrap up, I do want to talk to a little bit. You are a homeschooler now in Michigan. They have started recently putting financial literacy into schools. As a homeschooling mom, you get to choose your curriculum. I don't know how old your kids are or at what point in time you ended up homeschooling. How did you evolve to homeschooling or was that always the plan? Julieta Duvall (39:55) Yes. So it wasn't always the plan. We were pandemic homeschoolers and 2020 kind of pushed me into something that I knew nothing about. I was actually afraid. And honestly, if he hadn't been for the pandemic I don't know that I would be here. I like to say that I probably would have taken the leap of leaving the system. But it might have been I was too comfortable working within the system, you know, doing the school drop off the pick up the the mom thing, the extracurriculars. Like I was a definition of a tiger mom. So when we left the school system because of 2020, we kind of evolved because I realized how disconnected I was from my oldest son. My boys are 11 and six now. Back then, 2020, my oldest son was six. So. I was living with them. was living under the same roof. But when we started homeschooling and we were spending time together, I felt how disconnected we were. We didn't really know each other and I didn't really think that was right. So we started reconnecting. You know, I went into curriculum frenzy at first. That was another expensive lesson. I spent almost $10,000 buying curriculum and again, it wasn't big purchases It was small purchases because oh this looks good. This looks good $20 $30 Amazon 25 35 45 19 and next thing, you know, Boxes were just coming to my house and I'm like, okay, so it was really hard at the beginning and then the state of Michigan was like yes mask no mask yes this no this there was a whole back and forth the 2021 and 2022 so i said let's just do it for a year and we'll reassess and that second year came around, let's reassess, they still don't really know what's gonna happen, so let's just stay out another year, and next thing you know, we just never went back. We do check-ins, I do quarterly check-ins with the boys as far as our activities because they're constantly changing. Similar to the money, well, the money will always be moving, so your budget will always have some variables moving, That's why it's important to look into it because it will always be moving. So our interests are always moving. And we do check ins. We have some groups that we meet up that we prioritize to meet up with and then we build everything else around it. And I love that they have added those classes into the school system because it's really important. I we homeschool because I love spending time with my kids and because right now that's what work. for all of us as a family if they wanted to go back to school I would be like, okay Let's make sure that we set you up for success to go into the system that requires x y or z This is what they require of you. So Let's set you up for success And I think by having literacy classes financial literacy that's setting up people for success That's what we want for people. We want everyone to succeed everyone to find their best live their best life however they want to do that. They work for the money, they work really hard, spend it however you want, but feeling free in the process of earning it and then spending it. It's all good, you know, whatever works for you, but we have to be open about it. So I hope they keep those classes and I hope they help people and their families because it was something that we really needed and I didn't realize that until we started home educating. Marci Grossman (43:33) I have had friends throughout the years who have homeschooled for various reasons and in different ways. And I think it's fascinating. It wasn't for us. I did consider it at some point in time and kind of looked into what it would mean, you know, because obviously while it's great in the moment, you've also got to be ready at the point in time when they theoretically Julieta Duvall (43:37) Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. Marci Grossman (43:57) graduate from high school and are ready to move on, have they really had the full breadth of education that they need or the depth on the various subjects of their interest? And I know there are wonderful homeschooling communities out there that you're not expected to be an expert on every subject. And a lot of the community colleges work really well with homeschoolers. Julieta Duvall (44:17) Yes. Marci Grossman (44:17) So there's a lot of great opportunities out there. So I think it's a fascinating world and I know that's one of your podcasts and I think your website are on homeschooling. Julieta Duvall (44:27) Yeah, so I am very alternative. I'm what's considered a non-schooler, so I follow very self-directed education practices. And it is, like you said, it is definitely different for everyone. Everyone's way of homeschooling is different because our interests are very different. So the way we live our life is very different as well. And I really think that in aviation, know, 9-11 it's a definite marker of the industry. what you could do pre-9 11 and what you could do post 9 11 as far as like airport security all of that i feel that homeschooling has 2020 it's a definite marker in the homeschooling world prior to 2020 it was very curriculum based very structured which is like doing school at home In post 2020, there was a lot of different ways a lot of groups formed, a lot of meetups, micro schools, co-ops. So it really revolutionized what families were looking for out of home educating. And I think that's where I was kind of grateful that I started back then. I don't know that I would be here if I had. been thinking about homeschooling back in 2014 when my oldest son was born, even back then. My younger son was born in 2019 and I started thinking about it because I wanted to travel and do all these things, which we do, but it felt unattainable for some reason. There wasn't a lot of... diversity in the homeschooling world either too. You know we are a biracial family so that was important to us and it was hard to find our core group of people what we eventually did and now that's kind of what I do. I love sharing the stories because sometimes I feel like people see home educating as like a dark forest and you're at the edge of the forest and you're like, hmm, it looks unknown and it is, but I can tell you that once you dive through, walk through the darker paths, which is our conditioning. what we think education should look like, how we do education at home, what they should know, home educating is very non-linear learning. You still learn everything, it's just not the way it shows up in the school system. So once you get through those darker fears, and I had a lot of fears, my early journals are full of, I don't know if I can do this, I was afraid. Marci Grossman (46:47) Hahaha. Julieta Duvall (46:52) They have a lot of tears those pages have a lot of salty tears because I was a hot mess. honestly I tell people if I can do it if I can work through those conditioning aspects that I had I'm telling you anybody can do it. It's just takes a little bit of work and same with the money is just it takes a little bit of work and dedication and It doesn't happen all at once. I've been at this since 2020 and I still have moments. It doesn't stop me from having the moments. They're just not as often. So it's been a beautiful journey. I wouldn't change for the world, but I know 2020 really changed a lot for a lot of families and it made it possible for us to do that. I invite everyone to explore if it is for you, it works. If it doesn't, some people do thrive in the educational system. I did. I was a perfect student. I really was. I have to say that. But I've always loved school. I love instruction. I love learning from a person. So I love the instruction set up. I didn't really love writing papers or getting grades, but I was always a good student. So I love. the structure, the schedules, the classrooms, all of that. was good to me. But it's not probably what my children would enjoy at this point. It doesn't mean that it's not for them later. Both of them are thinking about careers that require a college degree. So we are working towards getting what they need in order for them to feel successful, even though it's still kind of early. But they both talk about it. So we talk about the preparation that Marci Grossman (48:26) That's awesome. I have really enjoyed talking to you. I think we've covered I don't even know how many subject areas. I've enjoyed every moment of it. I'm going to share your website and your podcast links when I post this. I just wanted to thank you for coming here. Do you have any final advice or thoughts you want to share? Julieta Duvall (48:32) Yeah, we covered a lot. Thank you. Thank you so much Marci for having me and for really opening the space to speak about this particular topic I feel like I think about it often and it's been a huge part of a transformation but if you're thinking about that About money. It's just really just dream big but start small find out where your money goes first look at your bank accounts It's okay to look into it. You know, make it a nice date with yourself, with your partner and look at the money. Look at the money because your time is so valuable and so precious that you should use it however you want to. So make your money work for you and don't just work for your money. That's it. Marci Grossman (49:26) Thank you Julieta. So this has been Marci Talks Money and Life. I am Money Marci and thanks for listening You got this.