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'Tina- The Tina Turner Musical' Story and Characters | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back listeners to another episode of the BSB Podcast.
• 0:04
  Today we're shaking a tail feather with one of the recent shows to arrive at the Fisher Theater, Tina, the Tina Turner musical, which was a bonus show in Broadway in Detroit's
• 0:11
  current season.
• 0:13
  Tina explored the life and legacy of the queen of rock and roll.
• 0:16
  But before we dive into the show and the characters, please like, follow and subscribe to us on all social media platforms at Box Seat Babes.
• 0:23
  Spoiler warning, we are discussing the North American touring production of Tina, the Tina Turner musical.
• 0:29
  So if you're wishing to avoid spoilers, then make like Proud Mary and roll on down the river.
• 0:34
  If you're still with us, let's continue on with the story and characters of this touring production.
• 0:39
  I sometimes crack myself up with these things that I write because I'm just like, how cheesy can I continue to get?
• 0:46
  ah
• 0:48
  mean, it's expected at this point.
• 0:50
  Like it's no longer a
• 0:53
  it's our calling card.
• 0:55
  So RJ, we're gonna just start off really, really strong.
• 0:59
  Did your family grow up listening to Tina Turner on the radio?
• 1:02
  Nope.
• 1:04
  Okay, that's fair.
• 1:06
  What is your earliest?
• 1:08
  grow up with the radio.
• 1:09
  m
• 1:10
  So what is your earliest Tina Turner memory?
• 1:14
  Do you have one?
• 1:15
  really late, really late in life.
• 1:18
  um Literally when I was studying music in college.
• 1:22
  I mean, I'm sure that I heard her music previous to that, but getting to actually know her as an individual happened during my collegiate days.
• 1:37
  I mean, I feel like that's pretty on par for me.
• 1:40
  I'm going to be that basic ass bitch because I did not really know Tina Turner until October 12th, 2010, when Glee played River Deep Mountain High in their second season.
• 1:56
  And that was my first foray into Tina Turner's music.
• 2:01
  And I think that I was forever changed because that song to this day,
• 2:05
  is one of my absolute favorites.
• 2:07
  There's just something about it that like, it gets in me and I just wanna like, sing my soul out.
• 2:13
  And so for me, was really, maybe that's a typical gay experience is that like Glee has opened up the door to so many people, but that was my first foray into this, to this world
• 2:23
  of Tina Turner.
• 2:25
  I mean, I for sure, know exactly what episode you're talking about.
• 2:28
  I for sure also saw that episode.
• 2:31
  I just don't think...
• 2:32
  It just didn't connect with me.
• 2:34
  mean, cause all Glee was, was introducing new music, right?
• 2:37
  Or old music to a new generation.
• 2:40
  And so I didn't like do much recon on...
• 2:43
  the individual artists that they were supporting or encompassing.
• 2:49
  But that, of course, of course, that was the exposure.
• 2:55
  I have to say, I don't even think I realized at the time that it was Tina Turner.
• 2:59
  I just knew that it was like two powerful women singing.
• 3:02
  Obviously we have Mercedes and we have Santana.
• 3:05
  So for those that don't know, Mercedes is Amber Jones.
• 3:09
  Nope, that's not her name.
• 3:10
  What is her name?
• 3:11
  Come on.
• 3:12
  Amber Riley.
• 3:14
  um Her name was Mercedes Jones.
• 3:17
  And I just had the most ADHD moment of my life.
• 3:20
  And Santana was obviously played by Naya Rivera.
• 3:24
  ah Both that were just like divas of glee.
• 3:27
  And so I knew that it was a powerful song, but I didn't necessarily know like who sang it.
• 3:30
  I think it took, my mom might've mentioned it.
• 3:34
  She watched Glee with me.
• 3:35
  It was definitely a passing thing that we did.
• 3:37
  We watched Glee until it ended, which is quite the struggle for anybody who has been in that shoes.
• 3:44
  Anything after season three was just a great let down.
• 3:48
  ah But that was my first like, okay, Tina Turner.
• 3:51
  powerful voice and it makes sense because they were both powerhouses.
• 3:54
  So when we're jumping into this, we're talking about specifically Tina, the Tina Turner musical, which is kind of a tongue twister, first off.
• 4:04
  But this is the story of Tina's life.
• 4:09
  general impression, I know you're not a big biopic person.
• 4:12
  I know that you don't always like jukebox musicals.
• 4:15
  This is the best of both worlds.
• 4:16
  This is basically Tina's version of the Cher Show, you know, or like um the Temptation Show.
• 4:22
  We've seen quite a few of them around here.
• 4:24
  What are your general thoughts?
• 4:27
  Honestly, that actually was another reason that I, mean, so I knew of her in college because I studied music and so I had a music history class and had to learn about her.
• 4:39
  But then I also, as we've previously discussed, worked at a theater where national tours came through and shows like The Temptations, like uh Beautiful, the Carole King musical,
• 4:55
  like
• 4:56
  Like all of these biopics.
• 4:58
  Um, also came through and included like the commonality, which surprisingly in this one, the only other music, I mean, they mentioned a few other musical people.
• 5:10
  Um, they cross over a lot, where other shows include her, not as even a feature or, or of any type, but just in the background of
• 5:27
  Hey, this was what was happening in the music scene at this time.
• 5:31
  Um, so I was like slightly familiar with what was going on.
• 5:40
  Obviously there was a lot happening in the U S specifically, um, that makes this story also unique just because you have like international crossover, but you also have.
• 5:53
  that segregation piece still being a prominent storyline.
• 5:56
  So I actually distinctly remember that.
• 6:02
  And apparently I also have seen this show before.
• 6:07
  So I'm not sure what it says that I didn't remember until we were literally sitting there that I had seen it before.
• 6:14
  uh But a very, you learn.
• 6:21
  so much about her life in this show, which I think it doesn't.
• 6:28
  glorify anything.
• 6:30
  Like it's very true, I think, to her life, which is unique for this kind of show, I feel.
• 6:38
  do have to take you audiences members to the moment that RJ realized that he'd seen the show, which was as the show was ending and we were clapping, he turned to me and said, so
• 6:49
  I think I've seen this show.
• 6:51
  That was the moment.
• 6:52
  It took him all two hours and the encore to realize that maybe he had seen Tina, the Tina Turner musical.
• 6:59
  Well, and really it's the encore that nailed it for me.
• 7:04
  Because I just remember looking at them feeling exhausted and just as I was looking at them feeling exhausted.
• 7:12
  uh So yes, it was a...
• 7:17
  mean, because as we'll get into, spoiler, I think the ending is my favorite part.
• 7:23
  The encore is actually my favorite part.
• 7:26
  So.
• 7:26
  which we will dive into quite a bit.
• 7:28
  So, but we're gonna start at the beginning.
• 7:29
  So obviously though, ah to start at the beginning of Tina, the Tina Turner musical, we have to start at the end of the show because it starts like a full circle moment where we
• 7:37
  are meeting Tina as she's about to get on stage, as she's about to give a performance, which we don't know that that performance is Detroit.
• 7:46
  Obviously every city is gonna be different as she's touring, but she's meditating and as she's meditating, she sees
• 7:55
  the call of like her grandmother and her father and her younger self, which pulls her back into her, her story, which I think is interesting because it does use kind of the same
• 8:04
  modality as like, uh, a beautiful noise.
• 8:08
  Like where you're sitting there as an older artist of yourself, reflecting back on the life that you have had up into this point, which is a really, I think that's probably the
• 8:19
  easiest, the most interesting way to have a frame story of a
• 8:23
  by biopic of somebody's life.
• 8:27
  I can't even think of some of other ones that do it.
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  I know that the Cher Show doesn't.
• 8:29
  I can't remember how we got there or if we just jumped into it.
• 8:32
  no, it starts with her being older and she reflects back.
• 8:34
  So like, obviously this must be the easiest way to jump into that story.
• 8:39
  Yeah, I know, uh, Carol King does the same thing pretty much.
• 8:43
  actually very similarly starts at a performance and then flashback and then you meet again at that final performance.
• 8:52
  this circular, very common for writing this type of piece.
• 8:59
  And not just that, I'm gonna ask you, because you are a performer, you are an artist.
• 9:03
  There are times when you are probably on a stage and you're thinking about it.
• 9:08
  You're thinking about like, wow, look how far my journey has come.
• 9:11
  Look at where I started to where I began.
• 9:14
  Like this is, you know, I started acting at three years old, you know, like this is something that you've probably experienced at least once in your life while you're getting
• 9:20
  on stage, correct?
• 9:21
  Yeah, I think, I mean, there are probably a handful of times that I have thought about that.
• 9:27
  A lot of the time you are still trying to like stay in the moment of what you're doing.
• 9:31
  But if you have, especially for people who do it for a living, like obviously I don't do it for a living, but for people who can basically do it in their sleep, there's enough
• 9:41
  head space to kind of be like, be, be vocalizing or doing whatever you're supposed to be doing while you're alternatively thinking about that.
• 9:50
  Um,
• 9:51
  and reflecting or the words or whatever you're saying or singing or performing have a different meaning than maybe what they originally meant the first time that you did it.
• 10:02
  And I do think that part of this has to also do with the fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but Tina Turner was alive when the show came out.
• 10:09
  She passed away May 24th, 2023.
• 10:13
  The show came out in 2020-ish.
• 10:15
  She's an executive producer of the show.
• 10:18
  And so it makes sense that as the artist is there and involved in the process, they're reflecting on their life.
• 10:23
  So this almost feels like an easy, I don't wanna say easy, that's not true, but this feels like a
• 10:30
  The most logical way is as someone's talking to you, like as the writer who wrote the book, Katori Hall, was writing this, it makes sense to be like, okay, you're reflecting
• 10:38
  back to me at a time where you started reflecting back.
• 10:40
  Like that makes sense.
• 10:41
  That's a really cool way.
• 10:42
  And then you don't have to explain, like, you don't have to start at the beginning and get there, because we, even though you kind of do, like, I think it's a very interesting way
• 10:51
  to frame that story to get to where we need to go.
• 10:53
  Yeah, well, and usually in that moment, learning, you're immediately learning what's most or highly important to that person or that character, which in this case, and it was
• 11:05
  sprinkled all throughout, was of course her kind of religious, spiritual affiliations um and the themes that went along with why that was important to her.
• 11:18
  Yeah.
• 11:18
  And I think along with that, if you really look at what happened, like, so we jumped back to when she's, I'm going to guess about five or six.
• 11:25
  I'm not quite sure how young she was in that opening scene, but she's sitting in church and right.
• 11:30
  go from the, you know, the gospel's coming through her.
• 11:33
  Like she kind of said, like she just feels it in her to the person who represents the church.
• 11:38
  father beats her mom.
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  Her mom leaves and abandons her and she's left with her dad who also abandons her.
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  So here she is.
• 11:47
  feels the spirit of her religion.
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  And then everybody abandons her and she's all alone and she's got nothing left inside of her.
• 11:55
  And when we see her next, she really is kind of a shell of a person comparatively.
• 11:59
  So I think that is interesting that she goes back to that moment because that had for any kid, that's a really formative experience to lose both your mom and your dad because your
• 12:06
  dad doesn't think that you look like him and your mom thinks that he's evil and that as a representation, you are too.
• 12:14
  Yeah, well, and it sets the tone very, very quickly in regards to character on from all perspectives because it's shocking.
• 12:25
  And I remember the women behind us immediately being like, what?
• 12:29
  Like, is this real?
• 12:30
  Like, did this happen?
• 12:31
  Um, because it was just, it was so brutal and honest and there wasn't, it was not candy coated in any way.
• 12:39
  It was just.
• 12:40
  I'm leaving, we're done, goodbye, I don't want to see you.
• 12:46
  Which I feel like most pieces are a little bit softer.
• 12:51
  So I think it's intentional, but also probably very real.
• 12:56
  Because otherwise, why would you write it that way?
• 12:58
  So I think she was staying very true to her experiences.
• 13:02
  I always think it's interesting about Biopics because I remember seeing the Temptations one.
• 13:07
  And when I took uh Jordan, my friend Jordan with me, because she loved the Temptations, you she grew up on the Temptations with her parents.
• 13:14
  And when she was talking about it later, she goes, some of that felt super fabricated because not only is one of the Temptations still alive, but the one that follows is like
• 13:25
  very involved with the process.
• 13:26
  So there's one scene that we both kind of, we chuckle that a little bit because he's like,
• 13:31
  Drugs?
• 13:31
  No, I'll never do those.
• 13:32
  it felt like just like a very much like a Hoyt, like, but like Tina Turner's musical, which she was involved in was very much like the, we're starting off letting you know that
• 13:39
  like, there was darkness, there was a lot of darkness.
• 13:43
  And I think what's interesting is that as you go through her life, it really shows you how she's, not only did she constantly come against that darkness, but she was struggling to
• 13:51
  find the light, even though she was portraying light to everybody else out in the world.
• 13:54
  She was portraying that she was a strong.
• 13:57
  ah female out there singing, a strong woman who was not giving it up, even though being a black woman in music was unheard of at the time.
• 14:09
  And so I think that it's really interesting that you start very, like you said, it's very raw.
• 14:14
  That beginning, was almost jaunting how hard that hit.
• 14:19
  Yeah, and for people who, and this is where art is so important, specifically theater, because first of all, probably a good 40 % of the attendees for this production didn't
• 14:34
  know that.
• 14:34
  And it was like audibly, you could tell that they didn't know many, not just this item in the show, but many things.
• 14:42
  um And some of it is just because
• 14:48
  Everyone's lived experience is so different, which like none of us are mega stars, right?
• 14:53
  But as you said, like you're coming from different parts of the world.
• 14:57
  You're coming from different ways of upbringing.
• 15:01
  You're coming from different spiritual backgrounds.
• 15:03
  Um, and so the reality, bringing reality to people who may have never thought that that could ever be real is, I appreciate that.
• 15:16
  because it's informing lived experience to those that will or have not yet experienced that.
• 15:26
  And something that I love too about this is when you look at that story of Zelma, because that was her mother's name, Zelma Bullock.
• 15:34
  She was like, she was cruel to Tina or Anna Mae who was how she was named to begin with.
• 15:41
  Like there was a cruelty to her.
• 15:45
  And even when Tina showed back up at 17, her mom was really cruel and really mean, but she was still
• 15:50
  showed that in a time where it was impossible to be a single mother, a divorced single mother at that, she did it.
• 15:57
  And then they show it happening again with Tina and Ike, which I knew a little bit about the Ike saga of her life.
• 16:06
  I wasn't as familiar.
• 16:07
  Again, I didn't know a lot about Tina Turner because she didn't, not that she shied away from it, but also I feel like there wasn't out there a lot, or at least it wasn't talked
• 16:15
  about a lot, other than the fact, like I was telling my mom today and she goes,
• 16:19
  All she knew that Ike was just like a mean motherfucker.
• 16:21
  It was basically her words.
• 16:22
  Like he was a mean, cruel man.
• 16:25
  But she fought against him in the end too.
• 16:27
  And it showed that not only we did one generation of, you know, like do this, but two generations show that you can be strong and capable.
• 16:34
  And I think that is so important takeaway of the story that I hope that that resonates with a lot of people as they see it.
• 16:40
  They're like, if Tina Turner can do it, if Zelma can do it back in what?
• 16:46
  The 40s?
• 16:48
  that we can also maybe rewrite our story here and not have to settle for something like an abusive husband or a situation that is less ideal.
• 16:59
  And so I think that there's a beauty in that part of the storyline and why I think that the story is so important.
• 17:03
  and it's so interesting.
• 17:04
  I immediately think of the parallels between this and, um, Carole King and her, uh, husband.
• 17:15
  I think of, um, why am I blinking?
• 17:20
  There's another musical, like, uh, well, Cher.
• 17:24
  It may be a little less extreme, right?
• 17:26
  But we, we all in, in stardom, we see over and over again.
• 17:32
  the man kind of leading the relationship and balancing or leveraging his fame or experience or the fact that the discovery of said female for the rest of forever.
• 17:51
  And so, then luckily then out of those bad situations, we get these powerhouse women, which it's very interesting.
• 18:00
  that it is exactly that.
• 18:02
  I mean, we have these women who we would never think would fault her ever.
• 18:07
  um But as this musical showcases, like she was with him for what, 16, 17 years before finally like cutting it out.
• 18:18
  And that was primarily due to her family or her children.
• 18:23
  uh Sadly, I mean, I feel again, like stardom and
• 18:31
  the time frame that was very like, your name would never, you would never be discovered as a woman in music.
• 18:41
  And music still today is still, I mean, we've come a very long way, but at that time, like you just, it was a man's world as it was for many things, but it was very, these were just
• 18:54
  like the first people barely getting in, let alone a person of color.
• 18:58
  ah
• 18:59
  But yeah, I'm always astounded.
• 19:03
  I think that's something of that that's really telling too is when we look at, and granted we're not talking about the music part of this, but when you look at the development of
• 19:11
  River Deep Mountain High in that moment, I always knew that it was like considered like a duet between Tina Turner and Ike Turner, but to learn that he wasn't even in the room when
• 19:21
  it happened because they didn't want him, they wanted Tina, I thought like, but his name still got on there.
• 19:26
  You know what I mean?
• 19:26
  And people still, like they were known as a pair because...
• 19:30
  She was a woman that did, like, again, and at that time period, that was, it was barely, like, like, Ike was gonna barely get through the door, let alone just Tina.
• 19:40
  And the fact that they took a chance on Tina, but he still got to be on there because he was the man.
• 19:42
  I was just like, what, like, again, we've come so far, we still have so far to go, but like, that was just a moment I'm just like, wow, that is just like, it's hard to kind of
• 19:51
  see that.
• 19:51
  Yeah, yeah, well and
• 19:53
  you think of, and I always think of um her management shifting and change um and the friendships that developed because of that.
• 20:03
  Like she, I mean, obviously wasn't insanely talented, but it is just crazy.
• 20:11
  You can only imagine like these women were like fire, right?
• 20:15
  Which is the analogy that they use in the show a lot.
• 20:18
  Think of the ones who
• 20:21
  couldn't or didn't stand up for themselves and how much talent got buried because they weren't meant.
• 20:29
  It's uh crazy.
• 20:31
  And when you think about it, as her story goes on, so she eventually does leave Ike, but there's also a suicide attempt there.
• 20:36
  Like she like decides to like give up on life.
• 20:38
  She makes it through.
• 20:39
  She leaves him.
• 20:41
  I think there was another child in between there.
• 20:43
  I think that's how the storyline went.
• 20:45
  So she has another child and she eventually leaves him.
• 20:47
  And for five years, she can't get work other than Vegas.
• 20:50
  Like it truly shows you how much power Ike had over her.
• 20:54
  And like, I did like that they showed all that.
• 20:57
  And then they really show the triumphant return of who she was.
• 21:01
  though it took changing everything about her and almost losing herself to do so, which again, I think just shows how much extra work it takes as a black woman at that, like at
• 21:15
  any time, especially that time to do anything to be seen and recognized as pure talent.
• 21:21
  Cause there's no doubting that Tina Turner is one of the best vocalists that we've ever had.
• 21:26
  and she still for five years had to do Vegas shows and clean houses and stuff at the end of the day to make her bills.
• 21:33
  Yeah.
• 21:34
  And even like age wise, like there's so many things happening, right?
• 21:37
  There's a misogyny, there's, um, ageism, there's, it's just like a lot, like, because if ultimately, if you weren't like some tiny little white girl who maybe is like 19 or 20 and
• 21:52
  breaking into the circuit, um, you're not going to get a call from a producer or a record company.
• 22:01
  Um,
• 22:03
  And as we learned through this production, there was still such blatant hate happening that wasn't even trying to be hidden.
• 22:15
  uh and I just, the situations that they were put in, I distinctly remember actually from the first time that I saw this, once I saw it again, I was like, yeah, the scene at the
• 22:28
  hotel where they had to pay for a hotel that they didn't stay at.
• 22:35
  and then almost got into kind of a shootout with the cops because they go to reach into their pocket.
• 22:44
  Right.
• 22:45
  I mean, unfortunately, some of these systemic issues are still occurring today.
• 22:51
  Um, but to think that these were, again, people of their time who had their faces plastered on magazines and were on TV and radio.
• 23:02
  And yet still, they were being treated like dirt, essentially.
• 23:10
  Yeah, which is just super telling.
• 23:13
  And it's great that they showed this, but let me ask you this as well.
• 23:16
  With like things like the racism, the suicide attempts, the amount of physical violence that was on here, why do you think that they include things like this in a show?
• 23:27
  Like, do you think that it's to humanize Tina Turner or do you think it's to show a story that is universal to everybody?
• 23:33
  Which maybe those are the same thing.
• 23:34
  And I'm splitting hairs here.
• 23:37
  Well, knowing that Tina was a producer on this, I feel like obviously she, at the end of the day, had the call on what was in, what was out, and how it was being presented.
• 23:49
  um I think it is absolutely intentional because, again, when else are you going to learn about it?
• 23:59
  And we have this really bad tendency in history books to paint things over.
• 24:06
  in a more beautiful light than what they were.
• 24:10
  And so, I mean, even from reading about her in music history, I wasn't learning about the racism, right?
• 24:21
  Or if I was, it was in a very light kind of way, because chances are who wrote that textbook or like from what lens was that textbook written?
• 24:30
  um And so I think...
• 24:34
  the intentionality of having these things in the show reminds us and tells people this was real life.
• 24:41
  Like this was the lived experience of these people.
• 24:44
  And this is what we had to go through to get to where we were.
• 24:47
  And it wasn't like the stardom, wasn't glamorous, right?
• 24:52
  We learned that she was broke, that she had no money.
• 24:55
  She didn't have anything to her name because Ike basically took the rights to everything.
• 25:01
  Then when she went to court and fought for just her own name, she had nothing because all of the music was under both of their names.
• 25:10
  so yeah, I think it's, it is very dark, but I think it's just telling the truth.
• 25:16
  Like it is, it is speaking truth to the historical piece of her existence.
• 25:23
  I do agree with you.
• 25:24
  think that this is one of those things where I think it does humanize her a little bit, but I also think that it truly showcases just the type of life that someone as big as Tina
• 25:33
  Turner lived.
• 25:34
  Because believe it or not, I took a history of rock and roll class at Wayne State because I just needed a credit.
• 25:40
  And there's a whole chapter on Tina Turner and how she revolutionized music, but it doesn't talk about the abuse.
• 25:48
  It doesn't talk about the racism.
• 25:49
  It talks about like the...
• 25:50
  She grew up in the South.
• 25:52
  She found her voice because of Ike Turner.
• 25:54
  Her and Ike Turner had a great career.
• 25:56
  And then she went solo.
• 25:57
  And like, that's literally the narrative that they were saying in this book.
• 26:00
  And it reminds me of the, of the saying that I learned back in high school, that the winner is the one that gets to dictate history.
• 26:07
  And I think that this was her way of being like the I won, you know, like I, like I won my own story.
• 26:12
  I won my own chapter, but I'm also going to tell you exactly what that is because it doesn't just like,
• 26:18
  It's not an easy ride to stardom.
• 26:20
  It's not an easy ride to be somebody who had to live through history.
• 26:24
  And granted, we all are living through history.
• 26:25
  We're still living through history.
• 26:26
  Sometimes it's a little too much history going on at one time.
• 26:29
  Um, but this is truly like, I think this was her way of saying that look, mom, won.
• 26:35
  Cause I, like, I want to go back to that scene with her mother where she's at the hospital with her mom and Ike shows up and her mom was just like, just forgive him.
• 26:44
  He's changed.
• 26:45
  He's a good guy.
• 26:46
  And she still had in the face of her mother dying be like the, I'm the first and only person that seems to respect me here.
• 26:53
  And I think that this was her way of also like Tina, the Tina Turner musical was the way of for Tina Turner to show like, respect myself enough to tell you guys the good and the
• 27:02
  bad.
• 27:03
  And it doesn't change who I am.
• 27:04
  Yeah, because equally, like she's not always perfect either, right?
• 27:09
  But that transparency makes you appreciate and understand, like the historical perspective makes you understand why basically that whole second half happens uh and why she
• 27:24
  approaches her family the way that she does.
• 27:25
  um But yeah, the mother, the family,
• 27:31
  relationships are very interesting.
• 27:33
  ah
• 27:35
  as they lean into when her mother passes away and the conversations around her sons and how ultimately she's not there for them as much as her family thinks that she should be.
• 27:48
  But of course, if you have to pay bills, how do you balance that?
• 27:53
  If you don't have furniture or if you're selling furniture to be able to live in a house, um that is the trade-off between spending time with your
• 28:04
  bringing up your sons or making sure they have somewhere to live.
• 28:08
  So with a show like this, seems like we really appreciate some of the heavier topics that they explore, but really appreciative that we're having those conversations.
• 28:15
  But when you're looking at one person's life and you're trying to cover a long life, a lot of years, do you feel like there's almost too much exposition going on?
• 28:28
  Cause this, I think what I struggled with was that like there was a lot of story and there was a lot of like, I feel like sometimes there could be
• 28:37
  The thing with the story for me is that it could be shortened just for clarity.
• 28:43
  I don't know if that makes any sense.
• 28:44
  I know this is a person's real life.
• 28:45
  I'm wondering, does it suffer because we're covering so much of a person's life?
• 28:50
  Yeah, well, and I think there were scenes that were dragged out that like we got what the point was, right?
• 28:56
  Like I think there was a sequence of like just doing drugs hardcore for a good minutes.
• 29:04
  I mean, it was just, kept going.
• 29:06
  um On top of the fact that even from upon meeting him, we already knew that that was a problem.
• 29:12
  And so.
• 29:14
  Did we need to sit through a song and a half, two songs of him just straight up doing drugs and not nothing else was really happening?
• 29:24
  Probably not.
• 29:25
  I, but again, like that was clearly so important to what they wanted to showcase, which very interesting.
• 29:34
  would have been very interested in thinking, in hearing what Ike um,
• 29:41
  Thought of that?
• 29:43
  how that was interpreted when this show came out, because he is painted, I mean, righteously in a very, very bad light.
• 29:53
  ah
• 29:55
  And so I'm just curious, like...
• 29:57
  I mean, to include him, have to, I don't know if he ended up having any other family, but yeah, this show just isn't good for him.
• 30:09
  It's interesting because he did pass away in 2007 and it looks like the only person was his son.
• 30:15
  And so I wonder like what happened, like, was the son a part of this?
• 30:19
  Like, was he, then again, uh Ike Turner was married 14 times.
• 30:23
  So like there might've been a wife there at some point at the end.
• 30:27
  yeah, see, and that's what I'm like, there's no way like based on even what is shown in the show, which, mean, comparatively to that sounds like there was even more going on.
• 30:41
  So maybe they did slim it down, but this is just all they could afford to show or to justify the amount that was going on.
• 30:50
  They had to at least have that much time.
• 30:53
  And it makes you think because he had six children too.
• 30:57
  So it makes you really wonder like what...
• 31:00
  Like historically, how did they, how do they feel about this?
• 31:05
  Cause they would be probably, I mean, what?
• 31:10
  I guess it depends if you had that many marriages, you could have kids of all ages.
• 31:13
  um But also if you knew like history repeats itself.
• 31:22
  So I can't imagine that their experience with him as a father and somebody can totally correct me if I'm wrong.
• 31:30
  If he had like a revelation and became a great dad, but based on what we saw on the show, that wasn't the case.
• 31:36
  So it's interesting because his last wife, Audrey Madison, wrote in her memoir, Love Had Everything, about how he had bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and how writing the book
• 31:47
  was a way of cleansing and releasing all of the trauma that her and the children had.
• 31:52
  So it makes me think that they, by the point that it came around, everybody might have been on board and just been like, you know, we don't have to hide.
• 32:01
  And granted, they don't talk about that.
• 32:02
  They don't talk about his mental health issues, like you can assume as much as you want.
• 32:06
  But they don't really discuss that.
• 32:08
  think that that's interesting that that part's left out of there.
• 32:12
  But I guess from Tina's point of view, that didn't matter to her story anymore because her story by that point was she was away from him.
• 32:19
  Right, and at that point, there's a difference between having some issues occurring and your ability to address them and change, which it sounds like, I mean, at the very end,
• 32:32
  right, at that deathbed scene,
• 32:34
  the perceived opportunity for him to change and then he decides not to apologize, which I'm sure was a very defining moment because they included it.
• 32:46
  I'm sure it was a very defining moment for that.
• 32:50
  I loved that scene when he just handed her the note and she knew in that moment he was incapable of actually apologizing.
• 32:58
  And I think that sometimes as a psychologist, we have those moments where you're sitting in a room with somebody or that you're watching a couple sit in a room together and you
• 33:05
  just look over and you realize that the other person, that the promise of the apology that they've been waiting for is just never coming and it finally dawns on them.
• 33:14
  And so to me, I feel like that's always a turning moment of this is truly...
• 33:19
  when the healing begins.
• 33:20
  know what mean?
• 33:21
  Like that's the moment that we accept the fact that whatever we were waiting for for all those years is just never coming.
• 33:28
  Right, right, like this is reality.
• 33:30
  Sure.
• 33:31
  So before we run out of time, obviously I want to talk about the performances.
• 33:34
  So this is the hard part of kind of a biopic like this, because I feel like there's such an insurmountable job for these actors because pro, you're modeling somebody, your
• 33:44
  performance after somebody, you have somebody to base this on.
• 33:46
  But con, you also have to base your performance.
• 33:49
  off of somebody.
• 33:51
  So I feel like this is one of those things, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know if you've ever played in a biopic before, but I feel like that'd be really hard because
• 33:57
  you're both shoehorned into an exact part and also trying to not do wrong by the people who are alive.
• 34:06
  Right, yeah, luckily, as far as I can remember, I have not had to do that.
• 34:12
  But it is quite a conundrum because also the expectation, it is basically that you are that person.
• 34:21
  And so it's not even that people are judging your talent anymore.
• 34:25
  It's that they're judging, can you embody the expectation of this person?
• 34:32
  Especially with someone who just like recently passed because she was touring for so much of her life.
• 34:39
  Like some people who attended this show could have seen her live.
• 34:44
  And so now you're, literally, even though it doesn't make any logical sense, cause they're obviously two different people and it's not an impersonation show, but it kind of is.
• 34:56
  Because the expectation is that you're going to look like, sound like, be like.
• 35:04
  But really, you're literally not.
• 35:05
  You're physically not at all.
• 35:08
  I will say this about this too.
• 35:10
  I think that impersonation is a good word and I'm gonna kind of categorize this with different things.
• 35:15
  I feel like for a lot of people, they go to Vegas when they see Elvis and they know it's not gonna exactly be a good Elvis.
• 35:22
  But when you're going to see a Broadway quality show and you see somebody on stage, you are expecting that person to be on stage.
• 35:29
  When we went and saw the Cher Show, the adult Cher sounded and acted just like the Cher that we know.
• 35:36
  Through makeup and costumes, she looked like the Cher that we know.
• 35:38
  And so I think that that is like really a, like I said, an uphill battle.
• 35:44
  But I will say this about our Tina Turner, Darlyn Burtley, the people next to us on my side, on my left side, when she did Proud Mary right before the ending of Act 1, the one
• 35:57
  girl said, that's Tina Turner.
• 36:00
  Like she like, in that her mind, that was the embodiment of Tina Turner.
• 36:04
  And truly, I guess that's the point where she really does become
• 36:07
  the Tina that people know and that they can remember in that moment.
• 36:10
  uh And so I feel like that is a slam dunk in a way for Burtley because if somebody in the audience can go, that's Tina Turner, she's done her job.
• 36:23
  Yeah, yeah, if people are questioning, which sometimes I have found myself doing that uh at shows where those folks are still alive is you're like, wait, like, no, that's not,
• 36:36
  that's not them.
• 36:38
  But it is so close to them.
• 36:40
  Um, which again, just goes to the level of talent that is out in the ether because
• 36:45
  It just, like, to emulate another human being and make it good.
• 36:50
  ah
• 36:52
  It's another Tina Turner, right?
• 36:54
  Like there's no one, there's no one that can truly be Tina Turner, but you can dance like her, you can sound like her, you know, like it's just, it's next level in my opinion.
• 37:09
  I will say this, that I did not know, like I didn't know early Tina Turner.
• 37:13
  And like, was like, okay, Burtley's a really good actress.
• 37:16
  She's a really good singer.
• 37:17
  Is this Tina?
• 37:18
  And I think it was during Rivety Mountain High when the guy's like, no, give me more.
• 37:21
  And like all of a sudden she had that growl and I was like, oh, that's distinct.
• 37:24
  I think that was one for me.
• 37:25
  I was like, that's distinctly the Tina that I have in my head.
• 37:28
  Like that's distinctly the person I knew.
• 37:30
  And in that moment I was like, oh, that is my, like that is Tina.
• 37:33
  That is a really good Tina up there.
• 37:35
  I think this kind of leads into the part two that we had talked about, because we talked, there's a Tina alternate.
• 37:41
  And so I looked it up.
• 37:42
  I did some research for you, RJ.
• 37:43
  I know you love recon.
• 37:46
  So it is split.
• 37:47
  It's been split pretty much since the beginning because quote unquote, every actress typically performs four shows per week because the show is so physically and vocally
• 37:56
  demanding that it requires a unique combination of vocal ranges, explosiveness.
• 38:00
  And so that's why on that sign that we had outside, we were just like, they told us which
• 38:04
  that we had, was the main one.
• 38:06
  But truly this is a part that is split between two people because it's so difficult to do.
• 38:11
  Well, and there's not one scene, like I don't think she leaves the stage, aside from maybe a costume change, which also, we'll talk about this in episode two, but shout out to the
• 38:23
  costume crew.
• 38:24
  She literally is either always singing, always speaking, always dancing.
• 38:28
  Like collectively out of that, what, two and a half hour show, I think maybe was not on stage for a totality of
• 38:36
  Five minutes maybe.
• 38:38
  Which is absurd.
• 38:41
  I will say that maybe the beginning part when she was younger, but within five to 10 minutes, she is on stage again as a teenager, which is crazy.
• 38:51
  I do want to talk about as well before we wrap this up, the Raymond Earl King, but specifically the Ike Turner, Raymond Earl King, and then their counterparts.
• 39:01
  Because in the moment, I thought so, but I think it's such a cool idea that they had Lamar Burns, plays Raymond Earl King, and Monty Kane, who plays Ike Turner.
• 39:09
  Play the sons.
• 39:10
  who are the sons of those stars in real life.
• 39:14
  Like what a cool way to uh utilize your cast, but also to make the callback to what her dad says in the beginning of like, don't see you when I see your look in your face.
• 39:26
  And then to have the two people a little bit later when she had the second baby, they said, you can see Ike in that face.
• 39:32
  And then to have those actual people play those roles was super, super smart.
• 39:38
  And also shout out to Lamar burns who just had an incredible vocal range as Raymond But I just thought it was such a cool callback Did you pick up on them playing those same roles
• 39:48
  in the show as we were there?
• 39:49
  Yeah, I at first I thought it was a little bit daunting.
• 39:54
  I don't know if that's the right word, but I was like, oh, how kind of like literally bizarre to have clearly full grown men playing, you know, teenagers, I think is what they
• 40:06
  were supposed to be.
• 40:08
  And but then it does make sense.
• 40:11
  Like you're like, oh, yeah, but their faces like there's this big
• 40:16
  And of course there is, like when you have a kid and you look at them and how many times do you say, you're your dad's eyes or you're your mom's nose or, know, whatever that is.
• 40:26
  And so, and it was, it got brought up intentionally as you just mentioned.
• 40:31
  So I think, yeah, it was very um good writing and a good callback.
• 40:37
  Absolutely.
• 40:37
  think when you said that, thought of Harry Potter, where they make a big deal about the eyes and then they didn't do it well in the movie.
• 40:42
  And like, you really truly need those.
• 40:44
  Like that was, makes sense.
• 40:45
  Like you're doing a show, you already have these actors in a role.
• 40:47
  Don't just have them be a part of the ensemble.
• 40:49
  Have them be an essential part of that story.
• 40:51
  Even though you're right.
• 40:52
  It was a little daunting when you saw the teenagers be fully grown men and you're like, that's, that just feels a little weird because you already have kids in the, in the, in
• 41:00
  the show.
• 41:00
  Why didn't you have more kids?
• 41:01
  But once you kind of get that connection of how it all goes together, it truly does.
• 41:06
  made the connection.
• 41:07
  So overall, think that the takeaway from this is that the story is, and I use this in the post I did last night, it's a story of strength and resilience.
• 41:16
  And I think that's truly what stands out about Tina Turner's story and the characters that we have in the show is that it's all about just like, when life throws you a curve ball,
• 41:25
  how do you respond to that?
• 41:26
  And for Tina, it was constantly finding the light.
• 41:30
  And that's what Tina, the Tina Turner musical is all about.
• 41:33
  Okay.
• 41:33
  And so on that note, we are running out of time.
• 41:36
  However, stay tuned for part two of our Tina, the Tina Turner musical.
• 41:39
  Thanks again for joining us here in our box seats until next curtain call.