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Why Is My Goldendoodle Matting When I Brush Every Day? A Groomer Explains (Part 1) · The Doodle Pro®: Positive Dog Training for Calm Doodles

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's a divide in the doodle world, and I want to talk about it honestly today.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: On one side, groomers, on the other side, doodle parents.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: And both sides genuinely love these dogs.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's the part nobody says out loud.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody in this story is the villain.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: What we have is a gap in education.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: And gaps in education are fixable.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: So today I brought you someone who lives on the groomers' side of that gap and has spent years reaching across it.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Joy Burton is a professional dog groomer.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: She's fear-free certified, and she co-owns Well-Groomed Pets Orange County in Laguna Nigel, California.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: She's been caring for dogs since she was 10 years old.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: She's been grooming professionally for over a decade.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: And she built her own salon around a standard she describes as excellence being the bear minimum.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: You might already know her voice.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Joy just filmed a doodle line brushing tutorial for the Doodle Pro Summit.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: The one where she brushes sweet Lucy right on this floor instead of on a grooming table.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's where you actually brush your doodle.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: If you caught that session, this conversation is the story underneath it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: Two things before we jump in.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: First, this conversation ran so long and is so good, I split it into two episodes.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Today's part one, the whys.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Why doodle coats do what they do, the myths that follow us into the salon, and what is really happening on the other side of that grooming table.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Next week is part two.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: The how to.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: Second, this was recorded live with honor society members in the room asking Joy their own questions.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: More on that at the end.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Joy, welcome to the show.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Joy, I was just sharing privately how much I've been looking forward to chatting with you.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: I call it the doodle divide, and there could be a vast one between groomers and doodle parents.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: And we both love doodles.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think misunderstandings just come from a lack of understanding and a lack of um education on both sides a little bit.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad that we're having this conversation.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Doodles are honestly, they just keep growing and growing and they're not going anywhere.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the sooner everyone gets on the same page about how to care for them the best way, the better off that we will all be, but especially the dogs.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: And we could do better for these pups on both sides.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: And without anyone being the enemy here, we both absolutely are in this because we love these dogs.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: You and I connected because we're both fear-free certified, which might be a new phrase for doodle parents and even some groomers.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: What made you want to do grooming and your part in this industry differently?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: And what drew you to become fear-free certified?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I have been caring for dogs since I was 10 years old.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's all I've ever done.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's all I've ever wanted to do.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there was always this pull towards knowing that I communicate with pets in a just a different way.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think every animal caregiver feels that way in their own sense.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I just feel like I could just understand what the dog is trying to communicate without it reaching a point of force ever.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so with me opening a well-groomed salon, the whole branding of Welgroom is wanting to do grooming differently, wanting to do it better.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: We want what we're doing to be the very bare minimum of the standard of care.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: We want the excellence to be the bare minimum, if that makes sense.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of raising that ground floor.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was very important for all Welgroom salons to be fear-free certified because no dog should ever have a regular part of their life be something that is stressful or painful or something that they're afraid of.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I hear all the times my dog runs into your grooming salon, but at the previous grooming salon, not blaming any groomers, but at the previous grooming salon, they were throwing up shaking, scared, fighting to go inside.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that just breaks my heart.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why it was so important to become fear-free certified and to establish this baseline of caring for dogs should be stress-free on the groomers' end and on the end of the dog.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it shouldn't be anything else.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we're not trying to get our groomers hurt either.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: And you guys already go through a lot of extra aches and pains.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: This is a very physical, labor-intensive job.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, emotionally, physically, it's a lot.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And groomers really do have it all comes from a place of care, but sometimes it can be a lot.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Doodles coming into that wave has added to that feeling like it's just so much.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm glad to be having this conversation and educating both sides, both pet parents and groomers, on how we can fridge that gap.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's so important to me.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, everything I do is fear and force free.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we created these pups that have these more challenging coats that have higher needs and more grooming intense schedules and needs.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's on, I think, us to make sure that we're making them comfortable and setting them up for success.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I imagine as a groomer, if a dog is less anxious and less fearful, not only would that be more pleasant for you, but more safe as well.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that in order for the groom to be comfortable in the salon, it has to start at home.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So familiarizing your puppy with desensitization of the face, the paws, brushing, handling very early.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's this misconception that dogs just naturally grow into grooming, but grooming is a learned experience.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not something where you can just take an eight-month-old dog and go, lamb cut, and I want this face and all of these things because the dog has no idea what the blow dryer sounds like, what these different professional brushes feel like.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're going from the bath to the blow dry to the groom.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a long process and it sounds like a lot, but it doesn't have to be this stressful thing.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so the sooner dogs are desensitized and are taught how to withstand grooming, the better their grooming experience is going to be and the better grooming results that you'll get because your dog is a participant in the grooming process instead of being put through it if they're not, you know, educated about it at an early age.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: I still say my personal doodle is a Kabakoo.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I just picked him up from the groomers yesterday.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: And at every drop-off, I say his comfort matters most to me.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: If something's a little crooked, that's fine.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we love that, by the way.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime in my salon, I have a team of four or five groomers, and they always say, they come back and I'm like, I love that pet parent.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, What'd they say?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: They said, do what's best for the dog.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, yes, that is the best way to approach it.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because he has to go basically every month, every month the rest of his life.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually have never noticed anything crooked.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: But if it was and he's more comfortable once a month the rest of his life, okay, then great.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned that you were at previous salons, which I would imagine as a certified groomer before opening your own salon.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: Was there ever a moment before doing the way thing doing things the way you do now that didn't quite sit right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: I will share that there was an instance.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm originally from Oklahoma before I moved out to California.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: So back working in Oklahoma, but people thought I was crazy when they were like, Why are you moving out to California?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I need to take care of dogs just better at a higher scale.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know that there's that conception of people in California treat their dogs like their kids.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's how it should be, that it should be the standard.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I a previous salon that I worked in, the dogs just were not cared for properly.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: They sat in channels that were way too small for them for long, long amounts of time.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: If dogs were accidentally nicked or injured, they would just super glue it and put a piece of hair over it and send the dog home.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know that sounds crazy, but that was quite literally what I was.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've been grooming for 11 years.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that was in my first maybe three or four years.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, It's not decades ago.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: This is present time.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, exactly.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, this cannot be how dogs are cared for.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way that this is the standard.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it had been a long established grooming salon um in Oklahoma that I was working at for years.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was around for 30 years.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, people trust you to care for their dogs because you've been around for so long.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think sometimes what can happen is you care for them for so long and then you you lose the care.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it just becomes about getting them in and getting them out.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I at the time didn't ever think I would own my own grooming salon, but I was like, yeah, there's no way that this is how dogs should be cared for.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And me and the only other groomer that was working there at the time ended up having a conversation with the owner.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And she subsequently decided, like, you're right, I'm not doing this with my heart in it anymore.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that conversation led to her closing down her salon about six months later because she knew that what she was doing wasn't right.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it was putting people who care for dogs in a really, really tough situation.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't want to leave because we knew that we were the ones who cared for the dogs, but we also knew that if we left, who knows who could come in here and just treat dogs however they want, traumatize them and compound stress.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a less than ideal situation.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about that experience a lot, even now, even though that was almost 10 years ago now, but it's but still sits with you.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just grateful that she was receptive enough to realize that how she was doing it was not the right way to do it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of giving any pushback, she closed her doors as to not harm any more dogs.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: So what beautiful advocacy.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, and I'm sure that the way you had that conversation with her has translated into how you supervise now in your own salon, being able to give feedback without creating some just somebody responding with pure defensiveness.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's what a skill.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: We talked about the influx of doodles and how that can be challenging for many salons.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think makes doodles' coats or even behavior more uniquely challenging to other breeds that you see?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is a fantastic question.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: First, I'll speak on the behavior and then we'll go to the code.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that what makes grooming doodles more challenging than others is that doodles are a brand new breed.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are, they were created, I think 15, maybe 20 years ago from someone who just wanted to do their friend a favor and mix a golden doodle or a golden retriever with a poodle to create a sighthound for someone who had allergies.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the creator of the doodle even says now, in which I maybe wouldn't have pushed that mix so hard without proper education, because other dogs are easier to care for, border calllies, labradors, even legattos, because they've been around for hundreds of years.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they have pre-established behaviors and the way that their brain works that makes them easier to handle because we know how to speak the language of the sighthound versus the retriever or anything like that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Doodles don't necessarily have this playbook of how to communicate with them, how to train them.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that can make their behavior all over the place because breeding is not standardized for doodles.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're mixing everything with the poodle now.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but I think it it does make training with them or working with them more difficult because there is not this standard that's been around for hundreds of years with every other AKC recognized breed.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's very important to remember that when working with doodles, it's not going to be a one size fits all.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: One doodles look this and they look this and they've got wavy hair, they've got curly hair.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a spectrum.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have to figure out what works best from a pet parent perspective, what works best for your dog specifically, and from a groomer perspective, what works best for the dogs that you are seeing, because certain tools will not cooperate the same way with the fur, certain brushes, certain techniques, certain handling.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Some dogs don't always register handling the same way.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's about what big figuring out what works best for the doodles that you are seeing in your salon.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you're right, they're a category, not a monolith.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: So an old English sheepdog crossed with a poodle, a sheep a doodle, is not going to have the same coat as a Havapoo, a Havanese crossed with a poodle.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: And we've got different temperaments and different quotes, as I mean, different coats as well.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, absolutely.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And to go into the coat, I think there is a common misconception that has been perpetrated because so many people say doodles don't shed, and that's why I get a doodle.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Doodles do shed, they just shed significantly less than other breeds, of course, but because of the texture of their hair, the shedding gets trapped in between the curls or the waves.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that leads to much more matting.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think sometimes when people get doodles because they're so cute and they're so fun and they're perfect companions, I love a doodle, but they can be, they're very high maintenance.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: They are not at all a low maintenance breed.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: They require regular brushing, for me, a minimum of three to four times a week, followed through with combing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're if that's not being done regularly, then taking them to the groomer once a month or sometimes even more than that, you may not be seeing the results that you want because the care at home is not matching the maintenance that it needs and at the level that it needs.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: And even someone hearing once a month is often more frequent than many people are told they need to bring their doodle in for.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I recommend once a month, four to six weeks is always good.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I have a drop coat doodle named Lucy that I love very much.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And she comes in once a week.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Her hair is so long.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: The pet parents have tried two weeks, they've tried a month, they figured out what works best for her.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have to figure out the schedule that works best for your dog based on one, your ability to brush and comb them at home.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't do a lot of brushing and combing, they have to be seen more frequently by the groomer.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the longer their coat is, the sooner they need to be coming into the groomer.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to keep your doodle over an inch long, then they absolutely should be seen, probably closer to that three to five week mark rather than waiting four to six weeks.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: But the shorter, the longer you can go in between professional grooms, they just still need that at-home maintenance at home.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: You and I, you mentioned that doodles still shed.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: So do poodles, so do wheat.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: I don't blow my winter coat off the top of my head, thank goodness.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: But you'll still find hair in the shower and in my comb.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: And you raise an excellent point by crossing these mixes with that poodle curl and these other coats that their breed was meant for it to fall out, how it can kind of catch, entangle, and be more prone to matting.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: When you see a softer wave, we call it having less furnishings versus a fleece coat and real curls.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, what does that mean for potential for matting and the mix that's encompass sometimes happen on the same dog's body?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I have noticed that when the noodles that are mixed with more fleece coat coated breeds, their matting is so much more substantial than, say, a dog that is mixed with a Labrador or a Golden Retriever.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: The curl pattern is so tight in a spiral, and then you're mixing it with another um hair texture that is softer and flatter.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Those that it's basically opposites.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's making two opposites mix into one, which can create the wildest texture.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it requires a lot more maintenance.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: But just because it requires a lot more maintenance does not mean that it requires more brushing.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: You may just have to change the technique of your brushing or make sure that you are using the right tools for the coat type that your dog has.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's very important to always confer with your groomer, or if you to if maybe you groom your dog at home, which I highly recommend doodles be groomed in slam.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if you do decide to groom your dog at home, call professional and say, Am I using the right comb?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Am I using the right brush?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm brushing every single day, but I'm still coming into matting due to that curly coat texture being mixed with the complete opposite.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes just conferring with a professional to make sure that you one have the right tool, but two, or using those tools in the right way to make sure that that coat is being maintained in the way that it needs to.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: In part two of our conversation, we're going to dive into more of the how-to so that our pet parents at home can support you more and keep their doodles' coat healthier while they're at home before they're coming into the salon.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: But I would love to know what some of the biggest myths about grooming that you see doodle parents come in with.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: We've got a lot.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: We only have a couple of minutes.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's quite a bit.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to try to touch on the most important ones.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I could genuinely have this conversation for hours, but I will try to touch on the most important ones.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one is that I think a big disconnect between groomers and pet parents comes from anytime a groomer feels, and I'm speaking in very generalized terms because I know everyone is different, but anytime a pet parent comes into the grooming salon, oftentimes we will tell before you put your hand on the doorknob to open the door that the dog is matted.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of times groomers are receiving a lot of pushback from doodle parents because they love the beauty of their dog's natural coat.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: But then when we get in there underneath that base layer, it's all matted to the skin.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've been, I've been brushing, so it's not matted.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then the groomer is grabbing the comb and it's it's not moving through that base layer.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's there's almost a an argumentative phase of the grooming where it's like the groomers almost not being believed, their professional opinion isn't being believed because the cosmetic aspect is being prioritized over the health and well-being of the dog and its comfort and its quote.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not to say that the pet parent cares less than the groomer.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: They just care a lot more about the cosmetic aspect than the groomer does because the groomer is prioritizing the dog's comfort and safety and well-being that they're going to experience in the grooming process.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think I think that's an both are caring about the dog, but I think there's a misperception from doodle parents' side of why the groomers are pointing out these mats.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: And many pet parents think they just don't want to spend the time dematting my dog.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: And why can't they just brush it out?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I hate to say that some even say that it's a laziness on the side of the groomer.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Can you help explain that a little more?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know it's such a big misconception.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: That I that is leading me right into my next point is that the the laziness aspect.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you think about it, if the dog is coming into the groomer every, let's say every four weeks, there's seven days in a week.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're not spending at least three to four of those seven-day weeks brushing your dog out, the groomer cannot fix that in one three-hour session.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's attempting to do to undo weeks and weeks of what I call coat neglect, with this, which is not properly brushing and combing the coat out to maintain the length that you want, coming into the groomer and then being upset that your groomer cannot undo what was not properly done over several weeks.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so it and also dematting is incredibly uncomfortable.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Dogs do not enjoy the dematting process.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it grooming is already very emotionally and physically taxing, and then adding on being responsible for undoing what was not done previously, what should have been being done at home, and then being blamed for the dog being shaved down.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of groomers just speaking very openly are like, if it was my responsibility to maintain it at home, I would it would be a different story.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it can cause frustration, but I think it's very important for groomers to also step back and go, this is a perfect opportunity instead of for me to get frustrated with the pet parent, to educate this pet parent and educate them on, okay, well, you're upset about the matting.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: How often are you brushing at home?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe once a week.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we need to up that to about three times of what you're doing.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or what kind of brushing are you?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of brush do you have at home?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Show me a picture of it.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes it's this little dainty, cute little brush with the little plastic beads on the end.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a brush at home, if you have a doodle and it has balls on the end, go ahead and throw it out.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not getting down to the skin.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the brushes are supposed to be metal, they're supposed to be long and they're supposed to come out at an angle.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is the brush.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: That is the only brush.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a doodle and you're using any other brush, please get that one.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that I just love that you had that there, ready to go.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, but if you if you ask, if the groomer asked the pet parent the question, how often are you brushing?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: They go, I'm breaching four times a week.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, my dog is mad at sometimes.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's where the disconnect is.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's okay.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then it's not how often you're doing it, it's how you're doing it or what you're using to do it with.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so having these conversations instead of getting upset at the groomer for not doing what you how you want the coat to be done, or getting upset at the pet parent for what you perceive as a level of neglect, sometimes it's not that at all.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they're doing exactly what they need to do, how often they need to do it.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just not with the right tools.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where we come in as professionals to teach you the right way to do it and the right tools to do it with.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that way when you do bring your dog into the salon, you get exactly what you want if length is the desired goal.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: And we actually talked just at the beginning of this episode about how to communicate without prompting defensiveness out of the other person.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that could be on both of our sides of if you're saying that my dog is matted, that can feel you're saying I don't care enough for my dog.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: And how do I ask in a way that's not can you show me how to use the right tool or what the right tools are without it making it seem you're demanding of the groomer to defend themselves?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Or that's them going extra and kind of eating into their time to see the amount of dogs they need to run their business.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I always appreciate it when I get that extra moment of time from a groomer and just appreciate that extra education.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And no, we no groomer ever wants to make the pet parent feel they're not doing enough for their dog at home.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in the grooming salon, you are caring for your dog.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Even if your dog is matted, you're still choosing to get up, bring your dog to the groomer, and pay whatever the fee is to make sure your dog is happy and comfortable.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: But make ensuring that if you are feeling a little anxious or defensive that your dog is matted, ask questions.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Groomers love to educate.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: It is, we I've been grooming for 11 years.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still going to classes, I'm still going to seminars, I'm still reading books.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's it's endless how much you can learn about a dog.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I personally love being asked, like, what do you think I should use?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: How often do you think I should do it?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Can you show me really quick?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always happy to take some time to do that because it might take 10 minutes out of my day today, but it's going to save me hours of work when I can show you how to do it the right way one time.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: You apply it at home, and then we don't have to go through these long, painful dematting sessions that are often more expensive.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not even getting the haircut that you want originally because they have to charge more for the matting and then they take the coat away.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more expensive and it's not what I want.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we can avoid all of that by just slowing down at the check-in process and properly educating on both sides.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: I have another couple of myths that come to mind that I would love to dispel with you.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: One would be don't give them a haircut too early because it'll ruin their coat.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: Have you heard that one?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have heard that one.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is important to let a doodle's coat come in a bit.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't recommend haircuts for puppies who are three or four months old.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I think within five months, especially depending on the size of your doodle, is perfect.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You do kind of want to let that adult coat transition in from puppy coat to adult coat just a bit.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I and also sometimes puppies are just, it doesn't always have to do with the coat.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: It sometimes has to do with the puppy's ability to handle and withstand grooming.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think any dog that was born three months ago wants a clipper the size of their entire body, being ran over their body and scissors in their face.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also an age thing that plays into how soon you should get your dog groamed.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's why we have to start with face feet and sanitary services for all puppies.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So trimming the area around their eyes and their visor, shaving their paw pads and rounding their feet and trimming their sanitary area first with their bath and blow dry and table services, which is the ears and nails.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's plenty to desensitize a young puppy.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then once they grow into the process and can be acclimated to it service by service, then they're also at the right time where their adult coats coming in a little bit more and they we can take off that puppy fur.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so you'll be more satisfied with that initial haircut rather than I see oftentimes where people will shave their dog home at three or four months just because they're like just a lot of hair.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then why is this hair not growing in properly?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you gotta let it find its groove.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not necessarily don't groom it too soon, but just acclimate your puppy to grooming so that way when it is time to get groomed, it'll be a more positive experience.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: And giving them a haircut isn't changing the follicle, it's not ruining their coat for life.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't hear you saying wait to bring them in the first time until four to five months.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: You're describing what many call a face, feet, and fanny cut or service where they're exposed.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they're being exposed to so much.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: The salon, the bath, the blow dry, nail trim, maybe nail grinding.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's they're still able to see.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: They're not getting stuff stuck in the sanitary area.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that and that's plenty for a puppy.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So thinking about it less from a this is going to destroy my dog's coat.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's not gonna destroy your dog's coat to get them groomed as a puppy.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think it's about proper coat management and proper acclimation into grooming as a puppy.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do not wait until your dog is seven or eight months old for their first visit in the grooming salon.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: That is going to cause trauma and potential coat damage because oftentimes when doodle parents do do that, when I see that, we are either swish cheesing the dog, which is shaving out a ton of mats all over the body, but keeping the rest of the link because they're not ready to say goodbye to it yet.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or a puppy's first haircut is a shave down, which nobody wants.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think bring them in as soon as they have all of their vaccinations and are cleared by your veterinarian to bring them into a shared dog space.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Bring them in, get those intro services, those bath services.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then once your groomer deems them emotionally ready to get their first haircut, then they can.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: I when you mention the puppy to adult coat transition, I see a lot of really dedicated pet parents who buy the right tools and are learning how to brush and comb the right way, just throw their arms up during that transition.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm doing it all right.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Why, why is this so tangled?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And especially when you you will you don't have to cut off the puppy coat, but you will probably want to cut off that puppy coat at some point in time.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: We see the other doodles, Brody the Doodle, or my Doodle that I see at the salon, Lucy.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: She literally looks that famous doodle Brody.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're identical.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: But so she's never had a full body clip.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Her coat was transitioned, but they bring her in once a week.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we can maintain it, we can remove the dead coat, we can keep it nice and trimmed up, scissor it every now and again to keep the ends nice and neat.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: It requires a lot more maintenance, but we are maintaining that length.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a family doodle, you're gonna want to get that puppy coat cut off because when it starts to mix with the adult coat, that's where you're gonna see a lot of matting.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we always do doodle shavedowns, probably around that eight month to a year span, because the mixing of the adult with the puppy coat is just creating belt mats all over the skin.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so then we just have to start everything over for the safety and well-being of the dog, which we don't really want to have to do.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're not a doodle influencer pet parent with doodle influencer budget or time, exactly the brodies of the world are not the expectation you should have for your dog's coat.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: He is, I mean, he has been his dad has been open about the maintenance schedule of weekly blowouts and baths and all of that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: So if your doodle isn't looking that, there's a reason.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't look an influencer either.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not in the salon every week either.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And there's nothing wrong with a short haircut for a doodle.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: If that is the maintenance level that you can maintain, you have a half inch.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I personally, half inch to five eighths is a great length to maintain your doodle.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: But there's this misconception that in order to have a doodle and in order to enjoy the beauty of your doodle, that it needs to be really long and really curly and kind of wild and free.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's not something you can realistically maintain, cut your dog to the length that you can realistically maintain to where they're not experiencing matting and uncomfortable brushing and dematting on a regular basis.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: If your doodle is getting dirty often, if you love to go on muddy hikes and you, or this is your family dog and you just don't have time for every other day full brushing routine.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: What are your thoughts about a sport clip?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love a sport clip on a doodle.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: When a doodle comes in and they're like four nose to tail, I gotcha.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because and it's always the dogs who are hiking or they love to go to the beach.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: They they live on the beach.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that for me, it's oh my gosh, you're stripping your dog down.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: They are caring for their dog in the absolute best way for their dog and their maintenance capabilities.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think a sport clip on a doodle is perfectly fine.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Shaving down a dog is not negative or abusive in any way.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: When that for me is caring for the dog, even more so because you refuse to let it get to a point of discomfort and matten.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: I a grooming expert, River Lee, once described to me that for a doodle walking around with mats is if we were to walk around with duct tape stuck on our underarms and our crops.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: And a sport clip, you skip all that if you don't have.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say sport clip, you use the four for the blade, but that's just a really short head-to-toe shrimp.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: Some people leave a longer tail, otherwise, I think they look kind of a possum.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: If we go all the way down the tail, but that's it's all personal.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's part of what's delightful about doodles.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the the personal styles that you could do with it, and it always grows back.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's always going to grow back.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: So even if your dog is madden and it's getting a haircut and your groomer is recommending that your dog receive a fresh start, it's not the end of the world.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And just remember that hair is growing back in three or four months.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna look at your dog.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've hear I hear it all the time.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Pet parents go, please don't shave my dog down.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: They agree to the shave down because the dog is maddened.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then three months later, they go, It's already fully grown back.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's crazy how fast the time flies, and your dog is twice the length that it was at the shave down just a couple of weeks later.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it always grows.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: And another myth I hear or see on social media is my dog is so embarrassed.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Wait after the shave.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am excited to just end this one really quick because I love, I love all my pet parents.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when I hear this one, I go, how are you reacting to your dog at home?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: You are probably mortified.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: You are, oh my gosh, he's hideous.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh exactly.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so they are going, no, if I'm okay.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like you are what's called anthropomorphism, you're projecting your human feelings onto your dog.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And because your dog is connected to you, they are taking on what you're feeling and they're feeling it themselves.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: If your dog came home from a full body shavedown and was you're a handsome boy, he like actually ugly.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're never looked worse, oh my gosh, you must be so cold.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: You must be so this is actually I am so cold and I am so this, that, and the other.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's we have to remember that don't project your feelings onto your pet.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or they go, oh, he hides away.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't want to be seen by people for for months.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's just not how they are.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how they're we've seen the same videos.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is not how their emotions work.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: That you they lead you lead them with your emotions.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so if your dog gets a shaved down and you're not really loving it, type your dog up.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I guarantee you, your dog is going to match your energy.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: And at the most, they just took this winter coat off and they're a little naked and they might feel sensory things a little different.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a sensory thing.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: They're feeling the wind a little too close to their hindquarters, or it's a weight that is being taken off.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it does take a little bit of an adjustment, especially if the dog was matted and they're like, Oh, she's just acting a little weird.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's just feeling out a new skin.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: You said it feels duct tape.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like, Can I stretch my arm the same way?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or can I lay down without having to contort my body because it can't stretch the same way due to all the matting that was on it and now removed?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's natural for them to require a little bit of an adjustment period.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: They by no means are embarrassed or anything like that.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Don't feel ugly.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's not.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: They don't.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: They do not.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I love that one.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: One more myth that comes to mind is how often people think they need to be bathing their doodle at home.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: What is your advice?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: And what is it entails if you have a doodle with a longer coat, if you're doing an at-home bath?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you are doing an at-home bath and you do not have time to properly dry, brush, and comb the coat after the bath, just take it to the groomer.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of the times when you're just, oh, I'm just going to let it air dry.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great way for mats to form.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you don't have the time to fully dry your dog and brush it and comb it, just take it to a professional.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are going to do at-home maintenance in between your grooming sessions, then I just recommend using a proper shampoo.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: There are curly-coated shampoos out there.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Curly wags is one of them that is specifically designed for poodles and doodles that is all focused on maintaining the proper curl pattern from root to tip to prevent matting.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so, one, making sure you're using the right products.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Two, when you are using conditioner at home, I highly recommend always conditioning your doodle at home, but grab some sort of wet brush or comb and brush that conditioner through to make sure that it's getting all the way down to the skin and is nourishing the coat from root to tip.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thorough rinse and then a nice blow dry.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sit them out in the sun if you need, but make sure that coat is dry before you start brushing and combing it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I recommend bathing at home.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you're coming into the groomer every four, maybe six weeks, then about that three-week mark is perfect.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: It fits at six weeks.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it also depends on if your dog is going to the beach or laying in the dirt or things that you have to, you know, wash them more frequently because you don't want that dirt and that sand or whatever it is just sitting in the coat, causing skin irritation or matting or things that.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if your dog has a lot of debris in their coat, if they hike, bathe them more often.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that there is, I think the only way you could overbathe your dog is if you were bathing your dog every single day or every other day.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but like I said, I bathe Lucy once a week.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: We properly moisturize and condition her coat, and that works for her coat type.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Other dogs we bathe every two weeks, some every three.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it just depends on your dog's coat length and their lifestyle, the activities that they that they do, but you want to just make sure that you're not doing it every day.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that might be necessary.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: You could wash away the natural oils that your dog has, but I try to steer away from statements bathing your dog once a month is overdoing it because to me that's the bare minimum.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I when I used to hike a lot and we would go to a nearby reservoir with sand with my standard poodle, we did a sport clip.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because to me, and tell me if I'm wrong, you're the groomer.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: If my current caboo Nestle, who's three-fourths of an inch long doodle coat, I know if I bring him somewhere that we're gonna need to take a bath afterwards, I brush ahead so I'm not cementing any mats, yeah, then I'm washing, then I'm conditioning, then I'm blow drying the coat straight to be able to get a comb through.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's a whole thing.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I said if it's not something that you can fully commit to from start to finish to take it to a professional as to not make anything worse at home.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because the last thing that you would want to do is be, okay, I'm taking care of my dog.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I gave them a bath, and then you wake up and three days later they're covered in mats on their thighs because they were laying on that damp coat that never was properly dried.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it's just a balance and about understanding your capabilities of what you can commit to at home.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's not something you can commit to, perfectly fine.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the professionals are for.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's perfect.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: One thing you might get questions from pet parents about is do you use crates?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: I see a lot of doodle parents say, I need to find a crate-free salon.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: I it sounds cruel to my dog.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: What are your thoughts on using crates at a grooming salon and what's best for doodles?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: And that is exactly where I'm going to leave you.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: I asked Joy whether she uses crates at her salon because so many of us have typed the words crate-free grooming salon near me into Google with the very best intentions.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: Her answer is not the one you'd expect.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, it might change what you think about what safe actually looks like behind that salon door.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: That answer opens part two next week, along with what she does the moment a dog gets scared.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Mid groom, the brush she wants you to throw away today, the six spots where Matt's hide on your doodle right now, and the red flags to look for the next time you walk into the salon.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now, about the room this was recorded in.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: The doodle parents you're about to hear asked Joy questions in part two, were not producers or friends of the show.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: They were honor society members.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: And they got to be in this room live months before you are hearing it.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: They asked Joy about their own doodles by name and got answers.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's what the Doodle Pro Academy Honor Society is.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's the room.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: Live sessions with experts like Joy, a community that is open every single day of the year, and a library that already includes Joy's full line brushing tutorial from the summit.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Available whenever you need it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to be in the room the next time, come join us at thedoodlepro.com slash society.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're anywhere near Orange County, California, go find Joy.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: She's on Instagram at her salon is Well Groomed Pets Orange County in Laguna, Nigel.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: And she's offering Doodle Pro listeners 25% off their first service.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Every link is in the show notes.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'll see you next week for part two.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Doodle Pro Podcast, where we celebrate how doodles are different, wonderfully so.