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9: When You Need to Fire Someone · Finding God at Work

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(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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This is Finding God at Work.
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Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
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course.
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Check it out at FindingGodAtWork.org.
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Our current series is Divine Disappointments, Facing Pain
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and Sorrow at Work.
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When I was in my early 20s, I
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had my first full-time job out of
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college at my home church.
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I was a larger church with a staff
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team of about 20, and so I was
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full-time, even though I wasn't in a
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management position, I was mostly an individual contributor.
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But I did have leadership oversight of a
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lot of volunteer team members, and I supervised
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one staff role, which was the facility assistant,
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a kind of janitorial role, somebody that would
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clean up on Sunday mornings, check the building,
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things like that.
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And that was actually a role I had
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had myself in college, so they thought, oh,
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we should have Chris oversee this role, he
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knows what it's about.
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So it was my first time where I
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really had the authority to hire and fire,
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and there was a man, we'll change his
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name for this story, we'll call him Dave,
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who kind of stepped into that role.
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And we were excited about this, because this
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seemed to be an instance of positive change
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in his life.
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If he had done some time, had gotten
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helped by a ministry that someone at our
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church was involved in, was taking good steps
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in his life, this job was kind of
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taking on responsibility that was appropriate for him
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at that stage in his life.
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And then one week, Dave just skipped town,
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and we never heard from him, and he
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wasn't showing up for work.
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And so I talked with my manager, and
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basically I had to write an email to
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him saying, okay, officially you're released from this
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employment since you haven't been showing up to
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work.
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And I never heard back from Dave.
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I tried to find him on social media,
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I'm not really sure what's going on for
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him, and that was just a heartbreaking situation
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overall because of everything Dave was going through
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and the hopes we had had for his
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life, a lot of disappointment, not just about
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his work role, but just that the trajectory
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of his life seemed to be going somewhere
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different than we had expected.
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And so today I want to talk about
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that really difficult situation when you have to
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fire someone, when you have to let someone
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go from a position.
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And while the situation with Dave was pretty
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black and white, right, like somebody who literally
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skipped town and didn't show up to work,
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and it was just an email, so relatively
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emotionally easy on my part to send the
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email saying he'd officially been released from his
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position, firing someone is always an instance of
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disappointment, right?
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Whether you hired that person or someone else
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did, somebody had hopes that this person would
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thrive in this role, that they would do
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well in it, it would be good for
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them and good for the organization.
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And so when it gets to a point
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where it's clear that somebody is not thriving
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in this role, somebody maybe should not continue
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in this role and you need to make
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a tough call and you need to ask
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them to step down, that's always a case
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of disappointment.
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And so I want to take time in
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the series about disappointment to speak to that
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specific disappointment.
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Now, this may not be relevant for all
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of us.
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Right now, I don't have anybody reporting to
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me in my job at the food bank,
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for example.
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So I'm not going to have to fire
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anybody at the food bank anytime soon.
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But it can come up in other areas
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of life, too.
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Maybe it's a team member in an unpaid
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position, a volunteer role at church.
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You might have to have a conversation with
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them if you're a team leader of some
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kind.
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So if this isn't relevant for you, you
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can feel free to skip this one or
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just think about the bigger context of, man,
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how could this affect my team or my
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organization when it is true?
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But if you do have some leadership responsibilities
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somewhere in your life where you might have
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to make that tough call, I want to
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encourage you that it is a place where
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you can do it in the spirit of
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Jesus.
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And you can even grow closer to Jesus
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in the way you practice the difficult task
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of releasing somebody from a job.
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OK, so to talk about this, I want
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to talk about the character in which we
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operate when we're asking somebody to step down.
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I think it's really important that we do
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this in Christ-like character.
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There are obviously lots of bad ways to
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fire people, but that doesn't mean there's never
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a good way, a good character to live
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into when we have to do this.
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And the specific idea I want to focus
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on is the idea that psychologists call self
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-differentiation.
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And I'm drawing here on the work of
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a very interesting author named Edwin H.
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Friedman.
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He was a rabbi and then a therapist
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and then an organizational consultant.
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So a very mixed and varied career.
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And he passed away in the late 90s.
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And shortly after his death, a book was
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published posthumously and his thoughts about leadership called
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A Failure of Nerve.
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And he works with this idea of self
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-differentiation to describe the self-differentiated or the
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well-differentiated leader.
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And here's what he says when he's kind
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of defining it early in the book.
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I do not mean an autocrat who tells
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others what to do or orders them around,
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although any leader who defines himself or herself
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clearly may be perceived that way by those
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who are not taking responsibility for their own
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emotional being and destiny.
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Rather, I mean someone who has clarity about
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his or her own life goals and therefore
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someone who is less likely to become lost
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in the anxious emotional processes swirling about.
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I mean someone who can be separate while
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still remaining connected and therefore can maintain a
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modifying, non-anxious and sometimes challenging presence.
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I mean someone who can manage his or
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her own reactivity in response to the automatic
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reactivity of others and therefore be able to
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take stands at the risk of displeasing.
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Okay, he packed a lot in there that
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he unpacks later in the book, but I
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think you can kind of get at least
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the flavor of what he's describing and the
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study of self-differentiation.
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It's somebody who's willing to take a stand,
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who's willing to make tough calls, even if
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that displeases other people.
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But that doesn't mean that that person is
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harsh or uncaring or unfeeling.
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It rather means that they are taking responsibility
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for their own emotions and taking responsibility for
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their own goals and the direction of the
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organization.
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And as much as that's been entrusted to
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them, they're maintaining a kind of separateness from
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others in the sense that they're not getting
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subsumed or consumed by the emotional processes swirling
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around them, but instead are able to take
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a stand and stick with it while being
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non-anxious, while presenting a non-anxious presence
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to others so that they can guide others
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into the steps of moving forward.
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So you get this sense, and if you've
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known healthy leaders in your life, you might
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realize this describes what healthy leadership is like
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when somebody is able to take responsibility for
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themselves, take responsibility for making decisions that they've
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been entrusted to make by virtue of their
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leadership position, still care about others, but not
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get sucked into the emotional dynamics of always
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trying to please everybody else or always meet
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everyone else's expectations.
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That's actually what makes it possible for a
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team and an organization or a community to
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thrive.
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Now, I also think that this is a
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portrait of Jesus's own leadership in the Gospels.
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So if you turn with me to the
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Gospel of Mark, I think, you know, it's
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funny, I say turn with me.
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Some people are probably in their car.
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Don't turn your Bible if you're in your
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car, but let's just have it from church
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meetings.
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If you turn with me to the Gospel
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of Mark, you see how Jesus is differentiated
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from the expectations of other people, even his
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disciples.
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So this is when he's ministering in Galilee
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starting in Mark 1, verse 32.
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That evening after sunset, the people brought to
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Jesus all the sick and demon possessed.
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The whole town gathered at the door and
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Jesus healed many who had various diseases.
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He also drove out many demons, but he
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would not let the demons speak because they
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knew who he was.
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Very early in the morning, while it was
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still dark, Jesus got up, left the house
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and went off to a solitary place where
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he prayed.
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Simon and his companions went to look for
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him, and when they found him, they exclaimed,
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everyone is looking for you.
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Jesus replied, let us go somewhere else to
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the nearby villages so I can preach there
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also.
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That is why I have come.
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So he traveled throughout Galilee preaching in their
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synagogues and driving out demons.
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Okay, now you can see how Jesus is
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taking a stand in a differentiated way in
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several different instances in this passage.
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So one is his interaction with the demons,
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right?
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He's driving out demons, but then it says
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he doesn't let them speak because they knew
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who he was.
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So Jesus has a mission, and right now
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he wants his messianic identity to still be
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secret.
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That's part of his mission.
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So that's one of his goals, and so
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he's taking responsibility for that, and he's using
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his God-given authority over the demons and
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saying, you don't get to speak, you don't
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get to say who I am.
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He has a plan and he's sticking with
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it in the face of opposition, but he
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has authority over that opposition in this case.
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Okay, now when interacting with people, Jesus is
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very different than when he interacts with demons,
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right?
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He doesn't just tell people not to speak.
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Rather, when his disciples come looking for him,
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he responds to them, but they have a
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kind of emotional reactivity, right?
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They're saying, everyone is looking for you.
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Implicitly, they're saying, why aren't you meeting people's
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expectations?
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People want you to keep healing here.
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People want you to keep doing what you
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were doing last night here.
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Why didn't you make yourself available earlier in
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the day?
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But Jesus has taken responsibility for himself.
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Jesus knew he needed solitude in order to
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stay connected with his father and to continue
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doing ministry in a fruitful way.
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So he took responsibility to go get that
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solitude, even though that involved disappointing some people
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who wanted him to stick around and keep
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doing ministry.
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And then when the disciples come to him
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about this, he sets the agenda like, we're
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going to go on to the next towns.
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So he responds to them.
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He explains his rationale.
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He says, for that is why I have
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come, right?
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He's, he's not just commanding things, really knowing
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he's explaining his reasoning, but he is setting
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the agenda of we've got to move on,
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even if that's contrary to other people's expectations.
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And then he continues to do so.
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He travels throughout Galilee preaching and driving out
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demons.
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He is able to continue fulfilling his God
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given mission in a healthy way because he's
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not getting sucked into other people's expectations and
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the emotional dynamics that are presented to him.
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So you see, this is an image, not
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just of healthy leadership, but of Christ like
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leadership, that when you're in a position of
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responsibility, you need to take responsibility for the
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decisions that have been entrusted to you.
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And then you need to make the right
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decision and do the right thing, lead people
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in the right direction, even if it means
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the discomfort of disappointing people or not meeting
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their expectations sometimes.
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Now, this is especially important when you have
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to fire someone, because, of course, when you're
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firing someone, you're disappointing their expectations.
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They want to continue in that job and
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less, you know, it's a situation where they're
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like, you know, I've really been thinking that
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this isn't a good job for me anyways.
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That makes it easier if they've had that
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moment of realization.
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But often when you're firing someone, you're really
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disappointing them.
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And there's often emotional reactivity in that conversation,
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and you might be tempted to to try
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and save them from that emotional discomfort by
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not firing them or by not being clear
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about the expectations.
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But the best thing you can do if
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you've been entrusted with the mission of your
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organization is to make the right call if
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somebody's not thriving in that position to to
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ask them to step down.
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Now, this can be done in a Christ
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like way.
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Being self-differentiated helps us do it in
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a healthy way.
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But then we also want to remember Jesus's
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basic teaching, do one to others as you
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would have them do one to you, right?
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How would you want to be fired if
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you were not a good fit for the
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position you were in?
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That's how you should go about firing someone
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else.
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And there's a Christian leader named Bob Beale.
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That's B-O-B-B, Bob Beale, who
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just has a model for this that's been
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really helpful for me just to think about
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how do you have that conversation in a
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way that's honoring to the other person, but
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also differentiated and clear.
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And he calls it the firing star.
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And it's basically his guide for how to
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fire someone in a Christ like way.
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And so it's a star because it's five
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points and the points are care, honest, fair,
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strengths, stress, care, honest, fair, strengths, stress.
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It's a guide for how you have the
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conversation with someone when you're firing them.
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So you say, hey, I care about you
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and about our team.
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And so I need to be honest with
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you.
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And it's only fair that I do.
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It would be unfair to you to be
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dishonest with you.
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You have clear strength that I see.
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And then you name the strengths.
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But your and then fill in the blank,
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your behavior, your performance, your whatever the issues
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are with how they've been doing this role
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have caused these stresses on the team.
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And so we're going to have to ask
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you to step down.
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Now, what I really like about that is
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it sets up the rationale for the conversation,
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right?
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You're starting with your care for them.
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You really do care about them.
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You need to be honest with them.
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And again, it's painful honesty, but it is
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honesty.
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There's a real issue that or else you
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wouldn't be having the conversation.
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You're articulating that that's fair to them and
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to others, which it is.
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It's unfair to your team if you avoid
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having painful conversations.
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But then you're also naming their strengths.
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You're not saying that they're no good at
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any job ever.
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You should be able to name specific strengths
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of a team member, even a team member
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who you're about to fire that you've seen
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on the job.
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Every human being has strengths, even if they
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haven't yet grown into those.
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So to name those strengths as a way
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of saying, like, hey, I'm still rooting for
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you.
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I want to find a job where you
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can use those strengths.
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But then to also be honest about the
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way that they've shown that they're not a
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good fit for the current role, that they've
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created stress for the team in X, Y,
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or Z way.
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So that allows you to say like, hey,
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I would love to write a recommendation for
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you on these strengths.
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I want to help you in as much
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as I can find a role where you
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can thrive.
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But this role is it's not going to
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work.
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Now, there's a bigger conversation about what are
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the steps you should do before getting to
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that point.
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Have you clarified expectations with somebody?
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Is there a way you can change their
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responsibilities or help them find a different role
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that's a better fit for them, et cetera,
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et cetera.
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But there are times when you need to
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release someone.
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And I've found that to just be a
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really practical guide from Bob Beale on how
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to do it in a Christlike spirit.
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It's self-differentiated.
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You're drawing a line.
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You're saying that you're asking them to step
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down.
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You're explaining why you're giving your rationale.
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But you're also expressing care for them and
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saying, hey, I still want to help you
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in whatever's next in your career and as
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much as I can.
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Now, even if you do that in a
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mature, humane, clear way, they might have a
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lot of emotional reactivity.
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They might be upset at you.
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They might yell at you.
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They might cuss at you.
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It depends on their character in that moment
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and their level of maturity.
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And your goal is to realize that you
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don't have to own their emotional reaction, right?
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You don't have to take responsibility for their
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emotions.
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You don't have to get sucked in.
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Even as you feel compassion for them and
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care for them, your job is to maintain
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the line, express care, while also setting a
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clear boundary.
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So that's my best on how to go
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about firing someone in a Christlike way.
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Lean into differentiation as Jesus himself models.
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Be clear.
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Use a practical guide to how to have
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the conversation like the firing star, if you
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need one.
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We'll link to Bob Beale's video about this
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in the show notes.
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But if you're in this position, just take
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comfort that Jesus is with you.
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That ultimately being self-differentiated is about being
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more and more like Jesus.
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And he takes great delight as you take
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steps to do that, even in the most
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difficult circumstances.
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Lord Jesus, thank you that you are the
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ultimate healthy leader.
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We do ask that you would help us
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to imitate your kind of healthy self-differentiation,
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to listen to your voice and not be
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swayed by all of the chaotic emotional dynamics
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that might swirl around us or even in
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our own hearts.
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To be humble and caring, but also firm
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and clear in the right ways when we've
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been entrusted with responsibilities.
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Jesus, do your work in us as we
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do our work with you.
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Thanks for listening.
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16:22
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