Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Dr. Robert Winn on Advancing Cancer Research Through Community Partnership

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Dr. Robert Winn on Advancing Cancer Research Through Community Partnership · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - Hello, and thank you so much for tuning
• 1:00
  - in to the Becker's Oncology Leadership podcast.
• 1:03
  - I'm Elizabeth Gregerson, a reporter here at Becker's.
• 1:06
  - And today, I'm talking to doctor Robert Winn
• 1:08
  - from Fox Chase Cancer Center.
• 1:11
  - Doctor Winn is the director of Fox Chase
• 1:13
  - Cancer Center
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  - with Temple Health. Prior to joining Fox Chase,
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  - he most recently served as the director of
• 1:19
  - VCU Health Massey Comprehensive Cancer Center. Doctor Winn,
• 1:23
  - thank you so much for taking the time
• 1:24
  - to speak with me today.
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  - Well, thank you, for having me on. It's
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  - a pleasure.
• 1:29
  - Perfect. And before I dive into all my
• 1:32
  - questions for you, I'd love it if you
• 1:33
  - could just share a bit about your background
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  - and your role at Fox Chase for our
• 1:37
  - listeners.
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  - Yeah. You know, the the role I am
• 1:40
  - super excited. First of all, I'm super excited
• 1:42
  - to be here in Philadelphia,
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  - and particularly excited to be at Fox Chase.
• 1:46
  - I mean, what a history. You know, we
• 1:48
  - when we talk about the field of cancer,
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  - you've had several people that are Nobel Prize
• 1:53
  - winners that have advanced the field, but you
• 1:55
  - and you've had one person, Paul Angstrom, in
• 1:57
  - particular
• 1:58
  - that put out the whole concept of cancer
• 2:00
  - prevention control. So I feel like I'm, almost
• 2:02
  - probably like, Michael Jordan, you know, where he
• 2:05
  - actually hit the bulls. You know, I or
• 2:07
  - in this case,
• 2:08
  - I would say doctor Jay, when he hit
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  - the 70, that I'm in a right place
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  - and with an amazing history. And,
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  - as a physician scientist, I think, I couldn't
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  - be at a better place at this very
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  - moment.
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  - Amazing.
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  - So I guess as you, you know, are
• 2:24
  - stepping into the director role, I'd love to
• 2:25
  - hear what your biggest priority is right now
• 2:28
  - at Fox Chase.
• 2:29
  - Yeah. The biggest priority is that given the
• 2:32
  - background of where we are in science, the
• 2:34
  - mistrust,
• 2:35
  - low trust,
• 2:37
  - in some case, distrust of science,
• 2:40
  - my number one goal
• 2:42
  - is to actually reengage
• 2:44
  - our communities
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  - so that they understand that as we are
• 2:48
  - driving innovation and driving cutting edge science, which
• 2:51
  - I intend to do and with the great
• 2:53
  - team at Fox Chase, I know we will.
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  - But how that science actually
• 2:57
  - is impacting the communities
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  - is my number one goal. And so part
• 3:02
  - of this strategy is to drive
• 3:04
  - clinical trials, to drive cutting edge science, to
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  - get the best and brightest people that I
• 3:08
  - can.
• 3:09
  - But my next goal
• 3:11
  - is to ensure that that is accessible
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  - to our communities
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  - and that our communities understand that that ultimately,
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  - the thirty four percent reduction,
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  - from cancer deaths since 1991
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  - isn't because people are eating more kale and
• 3:26
  - drinking more carrot juice. It's because
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  - the science
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  - has really led to implementations
• 3:32
  - and actually impacts their lives, and that's the
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  - message that I hope that Fox Chase can
• 3:37
  - actually bring throughout the greater Philadelphia area and
• 3:40
  - the country.
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  - I love that. I think that's such a
• 3:44
  - a great way to frame it.
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  - I know you've talked a lot about moving
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  - from
• 3:49
  - the bench to the bedside to the block.
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  - I love if you could just dive a
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  - little deeper into what that means
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  - and how it's going to shape
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  - Fox Chase's scientific
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  - enterprise
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  - under your leadership.
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  - Yeah. I'm I'm most excited about this. I
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  - think that, you know, for fifty plus years,
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  - we've had a bench to bedside sort of
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  - model. But the unfortunate thing is once you
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  - if you can't get to the bedside, then
• 4:13
  - you don't benefit. Here's the second thing, that
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  - many of the breakthrough science discoveries, I actually
• 4:19
  - think comes from the community. What do I
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  - mean?
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  - In Virginia, as an example, when I was
• 4:24
  - at Massey, it turns out that because I
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  - was walking in the in the neighborhoods,
• 4:29
  - I found out that several African American communities
• 4:32
  - in in particular were complaining about women cancer.
• 4:34
  - Turns out they were complaining about endometrial cancer.
• 4:38
  - As a result of that, I took that
• 4:39
  - ideal back to my center. And you know
• 4:42
  - what? I got my basic scientist, my pathologist,
• 4:45
  - and the the most surprising thing is when
• 4:46
  - the pathologist says, how did you know? And
• 4:48
  - the new recruit I actually had gotten from
• 4:50
  - California at the time, who was the. Said,
• 4:52
  - how did you know this is an amazing
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  - problem? And then I had my data people
• 4:56
  - go back and look and see that it
• 4:57
  - was an increasing trend throughout the Commonwealth Of
• 4:59
  - Virginia. You know what we did? As a
• 5:01
  - result of that, we put together a program,
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  - and most importantly, we put together one of
• 5:05
  - the first
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  - clinical trials to address the issue about endometrial
• 5:10
  - cancers because there's no really good therapies. That
• 5:12
  - didn't come from a bright brilliant scientist that
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  - came from the community. I hope I to
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  - do able to have the opportunity
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  - to do that here in Philadelphia where I'm
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  - out in the communities understanding what their needs
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  - are and the problems
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  - that we can actually help solve. So it's
• 5:27
  - taking, really, the people information, if you will,
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  - the missing omics from the community,
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  - and bringing that back to Fox Chase so
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  - we can refine our scientific questions and maybe
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  - introduce new concepts to address
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  - those needs that are academically
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  - relevant to our communities.
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  - Absolutely. And, you know, I've I've spoken with
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  - you before, and I know that community engagement
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  - has been central for your career. And it's
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  - also a topic that comes up, you know,
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  - when I speak to cancer leaders at some
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  - all across this United States.
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  - I'd love to hear how you make sure
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  - those community voices
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  - are actually influencing
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  - research.
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  - And I know you touched on it a
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  - little bit, that kind of concept of mistrust
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  - or distrust and and how like, what does
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  - successful engagement with the community take, and what
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  - does it look like?
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  - Oh, what a wonderful question. So, you know,
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  - the funny part about that, that the the
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  - best part about that is everyone aspires to
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  - get the community, but they won't but many
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  - people or fewer, I would say, institutions do
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  - the work. What do I mean by that?
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  - You can't just actually have the community quote
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  - at the table. You know what else is
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  - at the table? Centerpieces.
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  - And at the end of the meeting, what
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  - happens to centerpieces? You put them in the
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  - corner. So I'm pushing for what is beyond
• 6:44
  - engagement called community
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  - integration.
• 6:47
  - Meaning that at every single level of the
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  - cancer center, I want to actually encourage community
• 6:53
  - voices.
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  - But at the same time, I actually will
• 6:57
  - do that by strengthening our community outreach and
• 6:59
  - engagement. In fact, we have, Janita,
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  - Ziglar, you know, Ziglar Johnson, who's a wonderful
• 7:04
  - community outreach and engagement sort of person. You
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  - know, making certain that she has the resources
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  - and we put the resources into that so
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  - that we have people in the streets. The
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  - second thing is,
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  - in addition to just, quote, engaging the community,
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  - I found that if you bring the community
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  - inside, for example, one of the things I
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  - wanna do is on a monthly basis or
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  - at least, you know, every other month, I
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  - wanna be able to have it where we're
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  - doing,
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  - essentially
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  - community show and tells, meaning that we bring
• 7:32
  - them on campus so that they can actually
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  - see and hear from us what's going on.
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  - The reality is the way you build trust
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  - is that you have to become trustworthy.
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  - And so we always talk about engaging and
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  - gaining community trust. Trust is something that the
• 7:46
  - community gives to you after they feel that
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  - you are trustworthy. How do you become trustworthy?
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  - You have to be consistent about showing up
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  - in communities and not just actually having the
• 7:55
  - relationship being built on one grant at a
• 7:57
  - time, but an overarching program.
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  - I love that. I almost have goosebumps. Just
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  - the framing of it as, you know, community
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  - engagement versus community integration, I think, you know,
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  - speaks volumes kind of for the vision that
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  - you have. I'm excited to see, you know,
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  - the outcomes of that.
• 8:14
  - When we talk about Fox Chase, I feel
• 8:16
  - like we can't
• 8:18
  - not talk about the remarkable scientific legacy. So
• 8:21
  - kind of shifting gears here,
• 8:23
  - you know, from the Philadelphia chromosome to the
• 8:26
  - to precision medicine.
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  - What does it feel like to be in
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  - a position where you're you can build on
• 8:32
  - that history and kind of prepare for the
• 8:34
  - next era of what that might look like?
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  - I I I I feel like, you know,
• 8:39
  - the quarterback for the Eagles when he joined
• 8:41
  - the when he joined the Philadelphia Eagles, I'm
• 8:43
  - like, oh my god. Do you guys know
• 8:45
  - the history here? And but the wonderful part
• 8:48
  - about is that what you just said was
• 8:49
  - building on that history. When I walk in
• 8:51
  - the building every single morning,
• 8:53
  - I always stop by this display.
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  - And the display actually has some of the
• 8:58
  - greatest scientists that were actually at Fox Chase.
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  - And someone asked me, well, every single morning,
• 9:03
  - why do you wanna walk by that? Or
• 9:04
  - every single day, why do you walk by
• 9:05
  - that? It reminds me that this is part
• 9:07
  - of history.
• 9:09
  - We've built history. We've known that Fox Chase
• 9:11
  - has been integral back from the very early
• 9:14
  - days of being really the first core grant,
• 9:16
  - of which all other cancer modern day cancer
• 9:18
  - centers have been built on. But I'm as
• 9:20
  - I'm looking at the past, I'm also looking
• 9:22
  - at our future, The future of new, new
• 9:26
  - therapies, the future of having comp you know,
• 9:28
  - developing drugs,
• 9:29
  - but not the old fashioned way in a
• 9:31
  - wet laboratory, but having computational
• 9:33
  - science.
• 9:34
  - Scientists kinda come up with new ideas
• 9:37
  - to actually get drugs to market sooner. Those
• 9:40
  - things are super exciting to me, and and
• 9:41
  - I would say, you know, things like the,
• 9:43
  - cancer epigenetics and institute that's there right now
• 9:46
  - that we are doing wonderful work with young
• 9:49
  - scientists and older scientists.
• 9:52
  - I'm super excited for Fox Chase's future, but
• 9:55
  - I'm also excited for the future of Philadelphia
• 9:58
  - at large. I think having,
• 10:00
  - Fox Chase and having Wistar and having Penn
• 10:03
  - and having, Jeff altogether,
• 10:05
  - I think one of the things that,
• 10:07
  - doctor Chernoff did was he had the what's
• 10:09
  - called the Philadelphia experiment in which he brought
• 10:12
  - all of these groups together. I wanna continue
• 10:14
  - in that pattern that, yes, Fox Chase is
• 10:16
  - going to do big science, but we also
• 10:19
  - wanna be leaders within the context of these,
• 10:21
  - Philadelphia at large of bringing the entire power
• 10:24
  - of science together in a way that actually
• 10:26
  - makes even bigger impact.
• 10:29
  - Perfect.
• 10:30
  - And for my last few questions here, I'd
• 10:31
  - love to kind of look to the future
• 10:34
  - and kind of build off on on, you
• 10:35
  - know, talking about the next era of cancer
• 10:38
  - care and cancer research.
• 10:41
  - When you think about the next generation
• 10:43
  - of oncology
• 10:45
  - leaders,
• 10:46
  - is there something you feel that they're going
• 10:49
  - to be tasked with
• 10:51
  - tackling or solving
• 10:54
  - that maybe the current,
• 10:56
  - you know, generation
• 10:57
  - hasn't quite
• 10:59
  - hit the nail on the head yet?
• 11:01
  - You you know, you you got me breaking
• 11:02
  - out in a cold sweat like James Brown.
• 11:04
  - I I let me tell you why I'm
• 11:06
  - super excited. Since 1991,
• 11:08
  - we've been able to get the survival rate,
• 11:11
  - of,
• 11:12
  - the thirty four percent.
• 11:14
  - Fewer people dying from cancer
• 11:16
  - today than they were in 1991.
• 11:19
  - The challenge is, can we get to fifty
• 11:20
  - percent?
• 11:21
  - When we have fifty percent fewer Americans
• 11:24
  - dying from cancer, I think that that would
• 11:27
  - be a really good sign. Number two,
• 11:29
  - there
• 11:30
  - are answers today that we just never thought
• 11:32
  - in my lifetime that I was be we
• 11:34
  - were gonna be able to make a difference
• 11:36
  - on pancreatic cancer. But RevMed and some of
• 11:38
  - the things that are coming out there doubling,
• 11:41
  - the life expectancy of pancreatic cancer, so, you
• 11:43
  - know, folk,
• 11:44
  - of small cell lung cancer. Remember, there was
• 11:46
  - once upon a time with a five year
• 11:48
  - survival of a person that came in with
• 11:50
  - small cell lung cancer was, like, two percent.
• 11:52
  - That's over ten percent. So I keep telling
• 11:54
  - people that what I love about this next
• 11:57
  - generation is that this next
• 11:59
  - generation of scientists, researchers, physician scientists
• 12:02
  - will normalize clinical trials so that it's no
• 12:05
  - longer said as we're experimenting on you, but
• 12:08
  - that it becomes a centerpiece and a standard
• 12:11
  - procedure
• 12:12
  - of clinical
• 12:14
  - care. That when you come in and you've
• 12:16
  - reached the end of the standard of care,
• 12:19
  - that the standard will be that all of
• 12:21
  - Philadelphia and all the people around the country
• 12:23
  - will understand that being on a clinical trial
• 12:26
  - is the one thing that becomes a standard
• 12:28
  - for the twenty first century because it either
• 12:30
  - gives you hope that it will work for
• 12:31
  - you today or hope that it'll work for
• 12:33
  - somebody else tomorrow. I think that's the challenge
• 12:35
  - of this new generation and also making sure
• 12:38
  - that with all the technology
• 12:40
  - that while we're focusing in on the high-tech
• 12:42
  - as we have, rightfully so, but I hope
• 12:45
  - this next generation
• 12:46
  - actually starts thinking about the infrastructure for that
• 12:49
  - high-tech to make sure that we maintain
• 12:51
  - high touch because the human aspect is actually
• 12:54
  - gonna be really important, I think, and really
• 12:56
  - critical over the next twenty five to thirty
• 12:58
  - years as well.
• 13:00
  - Absolutely. And for my last question,
• 13:02
  - when we're looking to that same future of
• 13:04
  - cancer care,
• 13:06
  - what is one maybe innovation
• 13:09
  - or
• 13:11
  - outcome or kind of vision for the future
• 13:14
  - of cancer care that's giving you the most
• 13:16
  - hope right now and that you think maybe
• 13:18
  - deserves a little more attention than it's getting?
• 13:21
  - Listen. I it it it sounds cheesy,
• 13:24
  - but the movement of using the tools of
• 13:27
  - AI and machine learning really are exciting for
• 13:31
  - me. And I used and I used that
• 13:33
  - word deliberately, tools.
• 13:34
  - I think it is possible with the use
• 13:36
  - of these tools that instead of taking fifteen
• 13:39
  - to twenty years to get a drug to
• 13:41
  - market, that we may be able to have
• 13:44
  - that, if not get that in the next
• 13:45
  - five to seven years, where we have the
• 13:48
  - power now to do things in silico and
• 13:50
  - virtually
• 13:51
  - that then would say, instead of wasting all
• 13:54
  - this time in the laboratory that we used
• 13:56
  - to do, we may be able to make
• 13:57
  - it more efficient so we can get to
• 13:59
  - the right answer,
• 14:00
  - the miracle molecule that becomes the miracle medicine
• 14:03
  - that gets the market
• 14:05
  - and actually changes lives can be done in
• 14:08
  - a much more rapid fashion. Wouldn't that be
• 14:10
  - wonderful?
• 14:12
  - Absolutely. And I I just I feel like
• 14:14
  - I say this in every episode, but I
• 14:16
  - just feel so lucky that I get to
• 14:17
  - speak with leaders in the oncology field because
• 14:20
  - it does leave you with such hope for
• 14:22
  - the future and excitement about what's possible. So
• 14:25
  - I just wanna thank you again for taking
• 14:28
  - the time to speak with me. I know
• 14:29
  - you've got a busy day,
• 14:31
  - a lot going on, so I really appreciate
• 14:33
  - it.
• 14:34
  - Well, listen. I wanna thank you, and, I
• 14:37
  - I have to say it is just such
• 14:40
  - a great feeling to be in the Philadelphia
• 14:42
  - area, to be here at Fox,
• 14:44
  - to share the history and know that, hopefully,
• 14:46
  - I can contribute something to that. But I
• 14:48
  - wanna say thank you to you because you
• 14:50
  - guys continue to do just an amazing job
• 14:52
  - in covering the most important aspect of what's
• 14:55
  - going on in the field, and so appreciate
• 14:57
  - everything you do.
• 14:58
  - Absolutely.
• 15:00
  - And thank you to our listeners for tuning
• 15:01
  - in to Becker's Oncology Leadership podcast.
• 15:04
  - I invite you to check out even more
• 15:06
  - Becker's Healthcare podcasts at beckerspodcast.com.
• 15:10
  - Thank you again to doctor Wynne for joining
• 15:13
  - me today, and thank you to our listeners.
• 15:15
  - Have a good one.