Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / The Buffet with Chad and Scooch, Episode 23 - Featuring Tom Tolbert and Ken Barkley

Transcript

The Buffet with Chad and Scooch, Episode 23 - Featuring Tom Tolbert and Ken Barkley · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Coming to you from fabulous Las Vegas. The right side
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: is the winning side. The late move is the correct move.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Sports betting capital of the world. We all know when
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a sharp like me weighs in the lines move, it's
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: a party for your ears. This is the Buffet with
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Chad and Scooch. I want to buy that guy at buffet. Hello,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: welcome back to the buffet. I am Chad Millman. Scooch
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Bob Scucci from Your Leans is off this week. He
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: took off last week too, so clearly he's a little lazy.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: But Scooch is coming back next week. Um. On the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: podcast today, we have so much to discuss because we're
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: getting we're in the middle of in the middle of
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the college basketball conference tournaments. Were a week away from
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the tournament itself. Beginning later on in the show, Tom
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Tolbert the voice the afternoon voice of can BA in
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: San Francisco. You also may know him as a former
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: NBA player, also may know him as a former All
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: American in Arizona who also happens to be a huge better,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: a massive, massive better, and he knows the betting markets. Um,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: so he's gonna come on a little bit. He's gonna
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: play you bet your life. We're gonna talk a little
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: bit about Arizona. We're gonna talk a little bit about
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the Pact Golf Tournament. We're going to talk about uh,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: college basketball in general, heading into March Madness. Before we
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: get to that, my first guest. If you follow gambling Twitter,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you know exactly who he is. His his name is
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Lockey Lockerston. In real life, his name is Ken Barkley,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: and he is a former ESPN producer. Ken. How are
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: you man, I'm good chat. Thanks for having me on.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. So not only are you a former
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: ESPN producer, but you are a brand new contributor to
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: the Action Network. And um, I love how this happened. Like,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: tell me how you got into gamble ing and then
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: decided you were going to make a go of it
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: in your life in this world. Yeah, no problem. I
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: mean it's been it's been a crazy journey, no question.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: So I know a lot of people that come onto
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: these podcasts and do a lot of these things, they
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: sort of preface it by saying, I have you know,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I have more than forty years in the industry, you know,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: like I've been around since night or whatever doing this,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Like I've only really seriously been doing this for like
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: two to three years. Um, I'm I'm a super newcomer
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: to sort of the serious side of gambling, if you
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: want to call it that, like the actual you know,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: sort of doing your own work in preparation and handicapping
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: and understanding markets and all those things. And so basically, like,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: there came a point I worked at ESPN for more
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: than a decade, worked on a lot of really interesting
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: shows with a lot of interesting people, and there basically
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: came a point where my passion for this work sort
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: of ended up overtaking my passion for other stuff that
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do. So as a result, I sort
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: of made a bold switch and now spending much more
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: of my time I'm doing this content that I was before,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: which which I'm really excited about. I will tell you
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I had multiple people reach it. You had reached out
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: to me about all this stuff, and we had a
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: conversation and we started talking and you and I, you know,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: we didn't know each other at ESPN, um despite sort
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: of being there and having a very similar set of friends. Uh,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: multiple people reached out to me on your behalf, including
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Stanford Steve Um, including Tom de Cordy, who's the producer
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: of the s VP show, Um talking about what a
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: genius you were when it come when it came to
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: writing about sports betting. Wow, that's the bar has now
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: been set pretty high. So I amost suppose you hadn't
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: said that because now we're but it's gonna be on
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: pins and needles for what I'm gonna say next. But yeah,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I mean a ton of there's a ton of smart
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: people that work there, we both know that, and a
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: ton of good content that still comes out of there,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: some of it about gambling, especially, so great to hear
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: that stuff. Oh I didn't. I figured you put them
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: up to it. I'm like, hey, can you reach out
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: like staying to Stanford into already, Like hey can you
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: reach out to Milman and like putting the good word
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: for me? Make sure to use the word genius. That's
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: really important. So genius, absolute genius. But you've got to
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: do it in a very specific way because you write
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: a lot about futures and you have a story up
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: in the Action Network today about SEC futures and for
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the tournament, and this is a strange year because Kentucky
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: is not one of the favorites and the two teams
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: is you sort of smartly put it in contextualizing in
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the piece that are atop the conference seatings are Auburn
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and Tennessee, who were supposed to be ninth and thirteenth, respectively.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: How does the conference set up for you then, So
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: the thing that's really interesting is that I feel like
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: people have spent the entire year waiting for a regression
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: from those two teams and and didn't really get one.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: And as a result, we have sort of this weird
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: unique opportunity in this tournament where the pricing is like
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: kind of out of whack. You basically have the two
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: teams that everyone thought we're gonna be really good, Florida
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: and Kentucky rated a certain way, and now you have
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Auburn and Tennessee, the teams that actually finished at the
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: top of the conference. All four of those teams basically
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: have identical prices right now. Kentucky has a little bit
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: more attractive price. I think the thing that's really interesting
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: anytime you approach futures, there's actually a difference between who
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: you think is going to win the tournament and who
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you should bet on, and that will immediately make no
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: sense to a lot of people. So here's sort of
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. I think Florida is the most
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: likely team to win this tournament. Um, but their price
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: is sort of correct, and the reason is is that
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: they have to play Tennessee, who is probably the second
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: best team in the conference, in the semifinals. That matchup
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: is incredibly likely. Then most likely they would probably play
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Kentucky in the final. So there's just not a lot
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: of value in the price right now that you get
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: for them. Meanwhile, Kentucky, who I also think happens to
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: have like a really high feeling, their path is really easy. Uh,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: they get Auburn on their semi and Auburn is the
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: team I'm trying to fade like crazy right now because
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: they played really poorly down the stretch they played. I
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: would say more like the team that they're supposed to play,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: like considering all the players that they're missing. Uh they
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: had are too highly touted players that didn't even play
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: this year. Uh their best shot blockers for the year now,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So they're a team down the stretch that I've been
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: looking to fade. Kentucky gets them in the semifinal, most
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: likely Uh, they're hanging out around five to one right now.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: The price has actually gone up like a few cents.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: So if you grab them at five to one, then
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: even if they just get to the Auburn game or
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: they get to the final, like, there's immediate hedge opportunities
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: if they play Florida, which I think is really likely. Um,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: So Kentucky's are really attractive option. They're ceiling is really high,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: they're playing really well right now. Um. The other team
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: that I think is just kind of interesting as a
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: long shot price grab, which I talked about in the article,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: is Alabama, and they're a team that people were pretty
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: excited about a lot of this season. Uh, Like obviously
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Colin Sextons somebody who NBA draft guys have been following
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: the whole year. But this is sort of a team
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: with a lot of talent that has had a really
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: tough time with consistency and down the stretch that's come
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: through big time. They lost five games in a row,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: but nothing has really changed as a result of that.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: They've just you know, sometimes you look at results and
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: it's there's like a schematic change. There's a lot of injuries,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: there's you know, some reason for this failure, Like this
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: is sort of the thing an Alabama team really in
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: terms of its core parts. And you know, I think
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: that their ceiling is still pretty high because of the
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: freshman they have on their team. You know, they're like
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: a massive long shot right now. They're twenty to one.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: They play, they don't play in the first round, but
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: they get Texas A and M in the second round.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: They played them basically to a draw less than a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: week ago, a game arguably that they should have won.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: And Texas A and M. Meanwhile, it's tend to want
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to win the tournament. So I have two teams who
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: should basically be rated equals, and one of them is
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: tend to want to win the tournament, and one of
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: them is one that immediately yells out to me that
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: there's probably a little bit of value there that's sewed
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: by Alabama's losing streaks. So my sort of philosophy is
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I'm taking Kentucky and Alabama. I'm hoping that they end
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: up playing sort of in the the Auburn semi. I'm
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: hoping they end up playing each other. When that happens,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: there's like all kinds of lucrative opportunities available you say
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: it is if it's an automatic, what if it doesn't happen?
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: What if? What if what doesn't happen? Like, let's say
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Alabama doesn't play Kentucky in that particular situation, or Florida
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't play and See in the opposite final, And so
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, all these scenarios that you've sort
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: of very eloquently outlined and that make total sense from
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: a price shopping perspective, what if they don't happen? Then
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: what do you do? Sure? I mean the I mean,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: what what anyone would tell you about gambling, especially even
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: people that are successful, is you lose all the time.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: You lose so frequently that it doesn't affect you whatsoever.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: You're obviously just trying to win more than you lose.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: So there are hundreds or even thousands of permutations that
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: can take place in this tournament. Like Vanderbilt could end
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: up winning every game and make it to the final.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: That's a permutation that could happen. The likelihood of it
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: happening is incredibly small, but that's the thing that could happen.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: And so you know, what I'm kind of trying to
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: plan out is like, what are the things that I
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: think are the most likely, and like the I'm trying
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to compare the likelihood of this matchup happening with the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: price that is in the market. So if I think
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: that something is really likely to happen, and the price
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: tells me that the market doesn't think it's likely to happen,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that comparison to me creates value, all right. So as
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: you think about what the tournament looks like, is what
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: March madness looks like. How are you trying to price
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: shop for those teams? Where are you finding value? So
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: the thing that gets interesting at this point is you're
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: almost better days with the seventh So you're almost better
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: waiting until the seating has taken place, because obviously so
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: much of the seating is going to determine where value lies.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Once you get to this point, you know, when you're
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: in January and February, there are teams that are D
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: one one that are sort of lingering in the middle.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: They still have a lot of time left to sort
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: of improve their profile and resume and metrics to the
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: point that they sort of fit the profile of what
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: a final four team looks like or what a championship
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: team looks like. Especially defensively. That's usually one of the
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: big things the to find winners is they're adjusted defense
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: is usually through the roof. It's usually in the top ten.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: So there's still a lot of time left for teams
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: to get there. Now we're you know, two games away,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: one game away. For some of these teams from the tournament,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: there's probably not allowed enough time left to change the
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: profile significantly. So as a result, like the long shot
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: long shot teams, like you're really really taking a flyer
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: on that being said, Uh, one team that I think
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: is really really interesting, and I've talked about this a
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: little bit is Florida, and this is a team that
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: everybody sort of that caught everybody by surprise last year
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and made a really deep run in the tournament, played
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of dramatic games. Uh, their profile is actually
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: pretty good right now, despite the fact that they've had
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: huge consistency issues all season. They basically have never been
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: able to get their act together for more than a
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: week at a time, and they've showed these flashes that
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: make people like me really excited about what they're ceiling is.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: And you know, an example is they went to the
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: p K Tournament and they basically, they probably played like
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: the best thirty minutes of basketball of the season against Duke,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and we're just running them off the court. Then they
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: ended up blowing that game that caused them to go
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: into kind of like a bit of a tumble, and
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: then the whole conference play was this series of impressive
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: win and then two losses in a row, and then
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: two wins over cupcakes, and then a loss to somebody
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: that you think they should be And so I think
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: their price is really interesting at you know, I think
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: it's around six two one right now. You know, that's
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: that's sort of correct based on how their season is
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: played out. But I think just based on their ceiling
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: and their metrics and how many returning players they had
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: from last year, some of the new pieces, I think,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: especially with their coach, I think they're a really sort
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: of exciting proposition. They're gonna get seated, you know, somewhere
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: in like five six seven range. I think they are
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: a team that can make a deep run. And I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: kind of like that price. How do you measure someone
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: like Virginia. And we've written a lot about this on
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the Action Network And by the way, don't forget later
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: in the show Tom Tolbert UH former NBA player, former
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: college All American, UH, current sports radio host in San Francisco,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: longtime host. They're also contribute over the years to ESPN.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: He's coming on the show, talk about betting, talk about
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: is you bet your life moment, talk about UH college
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: basketball in general right now. UM, how do you measure
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: a team? Ken Barkley, a k A. Lackey Lockerson Like
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Virginia where at the Action Network we've written a lot
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: about how they're still undervalued even as the consensus number
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: one overall team UM from a futures perspective based on
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: how they play offense, they're adjusted UM defensive efficiency rate, UH,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: sort of the metrics that matter the most if you
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: look back to see who is winning these tournaments UM
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: and who's one of the championships. They're a team that,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: like if you play a ten thousand times, which we've done,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: they win more often than the odds are giving them
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: credit for sure. So I have I have a ton
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: of competing thoughts in my head at all times about
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Virginia because they're they're sort of a fascinating team this
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: year because this you could argue, this is like the
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: best version of Virginia that we can get like what
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you know, every year they sort of they put together
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: these massive winning regular seasons. I've I've fade them in
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the tournament every single year and it's always successful. And
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: my philosophy in those cases was, you know, when you
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: play a game against you know, a sort of like
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: mid tier conference opponent or a poor conference opponent, um,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: you can sort of employ a different strategy than you
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: can against a team that can make shots. And when
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you play, you know, six games in the tournament, you
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: have to play to win. If you play every game,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: has you know, the smallest number of possessions possible because
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: of the way you play. To me, that like opens
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: up variants where if a team makes five more threes
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: than they're supposed to, and a lot of these teams
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: have high ceilings with shooting, then you're getting eliminated. So
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: just that doesn't mean they can't win two to three games,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: win three to four games, but the likelihood of winning
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: all six games to win, to me, is lower with them.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: The other thing with them is that they're like the
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: best coach team in the entire country, and as a result,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: they don't really have an extra gear to go to
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you know, Bennett is getting the most out of them
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: every single game. So you get to the tournament. Sometimes
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: you see these teams like pop for lack of a
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: better term, where finally sort of like the talent and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: the coaching comes together and they reached this upper echelon,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: you know. So you saw it with Oregon a little
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: bit last year, and with Virginia there's no extra gear
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: because Bennett is literally squeezing the maximum out of them
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: every single game because he's such a phenomenal coach. And
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: so I think this year's Virginia is the most interesting
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: because there, you know, they're doing all the same things,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: but they're doing them so much better. And you know,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you sort of brought up metrics. One thing that I
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: ran a couple of days ago that I thought was
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: really interesting was, you know, everybody sort of does a
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: different form of this, right, Like what is the profile
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: of a team that wins the n C Double a tournament? Uh,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: even if you just look at like Ken Pond metrics,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: like let's try to build a profile for what the
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: winner looks like. Uh, they're sort of like minimums and
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: maximums for teams at the end of the season, after
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: they've won the title. You look at okay, like what
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: were their numbers? The only team that fits every single category.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: So that's the adjusted offense rating, adjust a defense rating. Uh,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: what rank they have to be that year in adjusted offense?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: What rank they have to be that year and adjusted defense.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: There's four metrics. They're the only one who right now
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: before we've even played the tournament, fits all four of them.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: As Virginia, they're the only one um which is not
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: totally uncommon, Like teams are gonna, you know, if Duke
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: plays really really well in the tournament, they're gonna get
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: into that profile by the end because their numbers will
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: be so good. But it's just crazy that like Virginia
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: is already there. That's how good they are. So you know,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: that's that's sort of like a long way of saying,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how to how to address Virginia
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: this year. Like I still think that my philosophy about
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: their team is still logical and and the path will
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: make a big difference. But you know, when you encounter
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: more and more teams that are better and better at
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: making shots and you play this style, like, to me,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: you're sort of ripe to be upset at some point
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: along the way. Yeah, well that's actually really interesting. I
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: hadn't thought about sort of that possession where if everyone
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: is going to be so valuable, you actually limit the
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: opportunity to come back in a game. And that's what
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: those things are all about. Like if you're if you're
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: playing so methodically, you can't break yourself out of that
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: particular rhythm. Sometimes you screw yourself, right, Absolutely, Virginia games
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: always sort of play out a certain way, like how
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: many times this season have you seen Virginia down by
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: fifteen points? Like how many times have you seen it?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Like it almost never happens. Um, they get like you know,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: obviously they play a lot better with a lead, and
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: they milk the clock and you know they're getting great
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: offensive possessions all the time, Like their offensive provisiency is
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: very good. Um, and obviously they play phenomenal defense. But
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you know, the types of teams they're going to be
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: playing along the way, like that's it's possibly going to
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: put them in a position that they're unaccustomed to being
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: in and that will require them playing in a way
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that they don't want to play. All right, So in
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that regard, do you feel like Virginia as a futures
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: bet is actually a pretty good play because based on
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the metrics and based on the simulations, um they are
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: the most likely team to win, and there is still
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: value just based on the mass. I think. I think
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: it's tough. I think like the you know, I like
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: truth be told. I actually I did something I've never
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: done before. I have a Virginia futures ticket from a
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: couple of months ago. I have thirty three to one,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm for months I've been in my head kind
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: of racking my brain with at what point do I
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: want to buy out of this? Like do I I
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: probably want to wait for the seating process to at
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: least take place so I can kind of project the path.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: But I'm I'm trying to get out of this as
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: fast as possible, with you know, at getting as much
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: money as I can. But like, this is not a
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: ticket that I'm interested in holding onto very long. Uh,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: just because of all the my sort of preconceived notions
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: of what I think Virginia basketball is and what that means,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: you know, like if you're looking at their prices right now,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I think you have to wait for the field to
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: be said, Like somebody's gonna get an easy draw here,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: probably Duke because they do every year. But like, somebody's
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: gonna get an easy draw here, and you know at
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: that point, you know, maybe do you grab Virginia to
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: win the region at two to one or one seventy
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: five or something? Uh? Kind of knowing what the path
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: is like? Uh? Like maybe, but I think, you know,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: with all of the attention on them and the market activity,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: like I think the value has been kind of like
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: sucked out of that price. Uh. As of right now?
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: All right, here's my last question for you. There are
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: currently props that joe Lunhardy, our former colleague at ESPN,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: one of our favorite people at least mind Joey Brackett's
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: uh will go undefeated? Will he get the um everything
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: from Willie go undefeated and get all sixty eight teams?
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Which has happened twice? Two? Uh? Will he yet the
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: first four seeds correct the number one seeds? Um. I
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: love the fact there are props on Joey and Joey brackets.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like you've entered the cultural zeitgeist in an
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: entirely different way. When five Times, which is a relatively
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: sharp book, is offering props on um on you were
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: going to do in your job. Yeah, I mean it's
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's incredible. It's sort of like the
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the lead Corso headgear props if you can find them.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: This is like that to the maximum, right, So that's
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: it's not just some kind of one off entertainment prop.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Will he get everything right? Yes? No, Like there was
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of time and effort putting into pricing and
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: variety uh in the offerings, which is which is really interesting.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: These were these were up before even the overtime props
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: that like I priced and some of the other buzzer
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: beater props and stuff. These these were up first, uh,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: which is just really funny to me that like that's
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: where we are. Um. I think there was a really
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: interesting piece written action network that sort of prices these out.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: And you know, the the reason these props are so
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: interesting to me is that you know, there is data
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: that you can go back and put together. You know
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are kind of just throwing ten bucks,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: twenty bucks into a lot of these. The limits are
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: really low, um, and not maybe doing all the logical
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: calculation associated with it. There is kind of a way
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: to price most of this stuff a lot of the time,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and you know, that article kind of goes into the
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of you know, exactly how many teams
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: he gets every year, what the average is there for,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: what the right prices, all that kind of stuff. I
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: think that's interesting to me that the article brought up
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: is how many one seeds he's gonna get right and
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: how how much different that is this year than the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: previous pricing. And I think that goes into a philosophy
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: that you're going to hear a ton going forward. Uh
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: in the tournament, which is, oh man, this year, anybody
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: can win, you know. I think I heard Dick Vital
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: say that during the Gonzaga game fifteen times last night, UM,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: because Gonzaga is one of the teams that they were
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: hyping up as as a contender. And I think this
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: price sort of reflects that, which is, we don't really
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: know who the best four teams are. UM. And I
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: think that's true this year in terms of who gets
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the one seeds. I think that's still kind of unpredictable,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: based on especially the a CC tournament. UM. You know,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I think like if I had to guess, I would
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: say he does get all four, right, But I mean
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the price is sort of reflecting that it's minus one
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: forty that he will. Uh maybe there's like a little
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: bit of value there because by the time we get
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: to a certain point, you know, he's going to be
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: able to create a profile he being Lenardi. Uh, he's
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to pretty accurately project this. I think
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: once we have all the information in the thing that's
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: really interesting to me though, with this philosophy of anybody
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: can win, is I think it's completely fraudulent. Um. I
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: think that there's actually a very small number of teams
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: that can actually win the tournament. Now, there are teams
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: that can go on deep runs, and there are like
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: thirty of them, that's no question team I mean the
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: equivalent of South Carolina last year. But I mean, like
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: if Loyal the Chicago goes to the Elite eight, does
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: that mean anyone can win the tournament? Will know, because
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: that means they're gonna get to that point and they're
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: gonna play Duke and they're gonna lose. So like, I
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: think there's maybe six seven teams that can win the
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: tournament this year. Uh So I just you know, I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: kind of wanted to take a few seconds to say
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get a ton of this philosophy in the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: next week and or this opinion, this take, and to me,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: this take is way off base. Is there's six or
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: seven teams. Who do you think they are the uh,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the teams that I've sort of identified right now that
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I think can win uh Duke, Michigan State, Villanova, Florida, Kentucky, Wichita.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I think that the team that worries me the most
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: that's not in that group. And it's funny we talked
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: about Virginia forever. Cincinnati worries me a ton this year
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: because I have no exposure to them whatsoever to do anything,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: and they actually have a profile this year that's like
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: really equivalent to a team that makes a deep run
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: in the tournament. Their second and defensive efficiency with a
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: really low number, and their offensive efficiency isn't as poor
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: as it normally is. Uh, and they've shown an ability
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: to play really well away from home, better than they
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: normally do. Uh. They're the team that is sort of
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: like not in my group that I I may have
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: to add to my group before kind of the tournament
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: gets set. You didn't mention Virginia. You mentioned Duke Michigan State, Florida, Kentucky,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Villanova WA. Arizona is the other team. Sorry that I
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: had to add them to my list. Now that they're
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: sort of the scandal has passed and it looks like
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: everyone's gonna play. Arizona can definitely win. It's not super likely,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: but they could definitely win. I feel like you need
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: to write this story before the tournament, like this could
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: be your good Monday column. Sure, absolutely so. The uh
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: in the interest of self promotion, Episode one of the
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Locky Lockerson podcast was just recorded last weekend. Uh. This
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: was one of the primary commentaries that I did up
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the front. So, uh, you know, anyway I can spread
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: this this gospel to the people, I'm happy to do it.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Do you write the story, will link to the podcast?
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Everybody wins? Yeah, absolutely, I'm in I'm in on it
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: all right. Lacky Lockerson also known as Ken Barkley. I
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: wish I could call you Ken tremendous. I feel like
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: that name. It's taken, but I would have liked to
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: have called you that. Uh. Very knowledgeable, great work. I'm
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: so glad all those people from ESPN that we mutually
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: know Colin told me that I had to hire you.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I'm happy they did too. So I'm in a great
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: spot and and happy to be here. All right, brother,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: thank you man taught you later great Thanks. Next up
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: on the buffet, as promised, longtime voice of afternoon Sports
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: radio in San Francisco and K and B R. Former
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: NBA player, former college superstar Arizona also a bit of
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: a better Tom Tilbert, How you doing, buddy, tremendous chat
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: yourself and by the way, superstars a little bit of
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: an over exaggeration, maybe a lot of an over exaggeration,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: but I'll take it. Were you an All American? Did
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: you make any All American teams? I think I identified
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: you as an All American in the earlier interview when
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I was previewing who was going to be on in
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the show today? Well not unless my mom and dad
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: had an All American list. Well that's too bad. I
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: feel like you've been around for so long, and the
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: fact you played in the NBA for so long, and
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that you were famous in college, and I feel like
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: everybody at Arizona in the like eighties when you played
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: there was an All American, so I figured you must
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: have been an All American. That's great. I appreciate I mean,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the for it can give me like a
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Lifetime Achievement award or something like that. But unfortunately, now
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: we had two All Americans on our teams. Shanellett was one,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Steve Kerry was the other one. I mean, those guys
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: did all, right, what are you gonna do? Yeah, okay,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I've I've been too bad for themselves. Actually, when you
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: look at Arizona, like what's going on in Arizona right now?
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: What do you think of it? Both from a an
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: alumni perspective and then what do you think of it
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: from someone who analyzes sports? You know that one's that
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: one's tough because I've talked about that type of stuff,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: uh for a long time, and I've been done this
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: twenty plus years and there's always been scandals that it's
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: been football or basketball. And it's been a rough, a
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: rough go of it. The last few months for Arizona.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: You had the allegations of sexual misconduct going on when
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: rich Rod was there as a football coach, so he
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: was let go. There were allegations of players doing stuff.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Then you get the book Richardson Thing where he's funneling
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: money or steering players to Arizona or whatever, and he
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: gets putting cuffs and lead away and then you know
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Alonzo Treer and trace elements of the drug that he
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: had an assist him last year and he's been cleared
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: to play now. And then two days after that, it
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: was the whole you know, uh FBA wire tap fiasco.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And I don't, I be honest, I don't know what
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to think. I know Sean Miller, I've met him a
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: number of times, and you know, I believe him when
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: he says he's never done this, But I mean, take
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: it from the source. I went to Arizona. I want
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: to believe him, and other coaches. Maybe I don't want
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to believe because I don't have a personal connection with him,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: but you know, I believe him, and I know I'll believe.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Like I said this on the radio, people rolling their eyes, going,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: of course, you went to Arizona, and I totally get
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: that I'd be doing the same exact thing uh people
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: are doing, you know when I say something like that,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: But it's just weird. The whole time frame was off
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: with the wire tap. No one can hear the wire tap,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: the FBA is probably not going to release it until
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: you know, this thing goes to trial, and who knows
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: when it's going to trial. So it was just it's
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: just a bizarre thing that you can accuse somebody. Somebody
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: can leak information and really not have any information they
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: can share with anybody. But ESPN stands by their report
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: and Sean saying that he didn't do anything. So the
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: one thing I do feel confident in saying someone's line. Yeah, well,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: but isn't that often the case? But that's the problem.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: That's often the case in college sports. It's like you
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: almost can't have the conversation without having the conversation about
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the inequities in college sports, or how dirty college sports are,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: or the n c double A not managing it right.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: What do you do to fix it at this point? Well,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that's a great question, and it's been going on for ever. Uh.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: When I went to Vegas all right, didn't go to Vegas.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I got recruited by Vegas many many, many years ago,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and I remember them telling me I won't yeh. When
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I was an off metric right before I was not
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: All American. Absolutely, I think I might have had an
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: All American Burger on the recruiting visit. Uh. They told
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: me that they got out on a player at ninety
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: thousand and this was like in late eighties orbe late eighties. Uh,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and it just said it didn't stun me back then.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: It doesn't stun me now. I mean, this is going
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: on before that, the conversation, after that conversation. I mean,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: it just that's the way college athletics are. I mean,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: you're trying to get an advantage. It's it's money for
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: the school, it's money for the coach. Unfortunately, it's not
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: money for any of the players. That's why they decided
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: they're going to take it, and that's why you get
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: steered to certain places. Uh. And kids are saying, well,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm making millions and billions of dollars
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: for these people and I'm not getting paid. If I
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: get a chance to get paid, I'm gonna get paid.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: And I don't blame I don't blame the kids. Uh.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: How do you fix That's a good one. I mean,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know all the all the details of what
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I would propose, but I would say I would I
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: would propose that kids get paid, not by the colleges,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: but they get to hire rippers seditive. And if a
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: shoe company wants to pay my hunter grand to go
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: to Arizona, pay Hunter Grand to go to Arizona. If
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: a local business wants to pay money to go to
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the school, let them pay money to go to the school.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I know people would say, well, all the big schools
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: are gonna get all the best athletes. Well, yeah, they
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: already do. I mean all it's not like in basketball,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Kentucky and Akron are ever going for the same player.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, the same schools that are going for the
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: same players would be going for the same players, whether
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: they're getting paid or not. So I think if they
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: you know, if someone wants to pay money to go
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: to the school, let them pay them money to go
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to a school, even if the school doesn't have to
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: be be involved. I think, uh, letting the kids go
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: enter the NBA draft then come back to college even
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: if they if they don't get drafted, that's fine. You
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: want to go after your sophomore year, you don't get drafted,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: come back to school. That's not a scholarship available for you.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Oh well, go find a scholarship somewhere. Maybe there's not
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: available one at your school. But I think we need
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: to take care of the kids more than we need
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: to take care of the coaches. I mean, Tubby Smith
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: came out a couple of days go saying that, uh,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: we're just allowing the kids to quit by transferring. It's like, well,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, what do the coaches get to do?
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, the coaches get to transfer whenever they want to,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to hear about contracts, and there's
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: always a buyout. And if you ever want to move schools,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: you can move schools. Kids can't move schools. I've got
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: to sit out a year. And they're the ones that
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: are I'm not saying they're they're they're the ones that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: are solely responsible for making all the money. That would
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: be inaccurate. But without the athletes, you're not gonna have
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: a sport, and it's kind of hard to make money.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think people want to watch nothing. So I
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: just think we need to take care of the kids. Uh,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: take care of the kids more. Make the money above board.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Then we won't worry who's getting paid and won't have
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: investigations on who's getting paid. It'll be well, yeah, we
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: know they're getting paid and let's stop calling it if
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: we get to get rid of the word amateurism, get
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: rid of that word, and I think would be okay
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: because people still fall in love with this idea, this
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: notion how pure amateurism is, and it's a bunch of bullcrap,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: is what it is. I mean, go with the Olympic models.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: People still watch the Olympics now and they're making money
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: on the side, and rightfully so. So UM, I feel
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: like you are making a similar argument for sports betting
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: right in that UM athletes get paid. You might as
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: well make it above board instead of trying to legislate
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: that it's not going to change, and ultimately you're not
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: doing anything that's sort of improves the life of the
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: athletes or makes life better for the organization that's running it. UM,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: and you're trying to adhere to an ideal that no
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: longer exists. You're into betting like you're making the same
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: case for legalized sports betting. So one of the things
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: that always comes up when you talk about legalized sports
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: betting is at then it's okay at the professional levels,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: it's not okay at the n C Double A level,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: because that is a sport where those that's an area
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: where actually the athletes could be more corrupted because they
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: aren't making the kind of money that people at the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: NBA and the NFL levels are making. What's your take
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: on that, Oh, I mean it's just erroneous logic, is
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: what it is. I mean, it's the same thing is
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: the NBA. I read somewhere where the Cardinals and the
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Royals also want to do this. If they want, you know,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: legalized sports betting in their state, or the NBA wants
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: legalized sports betting, they want to charge you one percent
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: integrity tax, which just makes me laugh. It's like the
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: stupidest thing. I mean, who came up with this name,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: let's call it the integrity tax? And who people will
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: buy it? Well, I guess people will buy it. They
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: don't understand gambling. People don't understand gambling are gonna laugh
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: at the integrity tex because the here's the bottom line,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: and I've been saying this for years and years and years,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: you're no more likely to be able to fix the game.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Whether betting is legal in the States, I mean everywhere
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: outside of the Nevada or illegal, I mean, because people
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: can put down bets wherever they want to put down bets.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, if people want to get down money, didn't
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: get down money right now, they just got to get
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: it down off offshore. If you make betting legal here,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: it's the reason it's gonna be no more like you're
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: gonna be no more likely to see game fixing. Is
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: the watchdogs are the books themselves. I mean the books themselves.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: If they're not vigilant, If the books themselves they're not vigilant,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: they're the ones that stand to lose. Yes, you don't
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: want to have scandals in sports. You don't want it
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: to be w W E where you feel like everything
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: scripted and why am I watching? But the books are
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the ones that are the best watch dogs because if
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: they hang a bad line, or if someone wants to
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: come in and bet that they don't know uh and
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: bet large sums of money, and they're the ones that
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: are gonna put the red flag or raise the red flag,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: either call the FBI, curl over, they need to do
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: whatever authorities they need to call, because they're the ones
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: that stand to lose a ton of money. That's not
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: going to change whether you legalize sports betting or not.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: And I don't know why people think it is. I mean,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: if if I go I can go to Vegas and bet,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: or if I can get a guy to fix the
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: game for you know, state, you I can go offshore
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: and bet it. And now maybe it's easier to bet it,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: although I still contend off shore books will still uh,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, they'll still live whether sports betting is legal
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: or not. Because if you're gonna bet sports legally here
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: in the United States, you're gonna actually have to pull
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: cash out of your pocket and bet it. You're not
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to get down to your local, you know,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: bookshop and say, yeah, give me a hundred on so
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: and so. Oh yeah, credit, And I mean, I'm gonna
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: give you credit to always do one hundred. So credit
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: is always going to be available with the books, and
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: people like to have credit, and that's a lot of
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: times how they get in trouble. But that's just a given.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: But I just have always found that argument just infuriating
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: that if you legalize sports betting, you're gonna be more
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: likely to fix games here. It's just nonsense, regardless of
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: who's monitoring it. Don't you think it's easier for gamblers
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: to get to college players? Then two NFL players, of course.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I mean logic dictates that the more money you're making,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: the harder it is to have you in on it,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: because the more money you'd have to try and get
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: down in a bet to make it worth your while,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: which would arouse more interest. Um. So yeah, of course
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: you have the college guys don't make any money, so
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: they're the ones you want to go to and say,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: if we give you five grand. I mean that that
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: would be like a you know, and can you imagine
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: in college when five grand for you helping to shave points. Hey,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to by twelve, just won by less than twelve,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: and we'll get you five k. They'd be like all
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: the money in the world be laughable. I think you
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: get any NBA player to do it for five grand,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: especially the players that matter in the NBA. I mean
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: those guys you have to pay millions. I would think
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: to try and at least a money, try and fix
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the game. I actually feel like the stuff. If you're not,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is where the rub is because you
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: always at the NBA level. If you're doing it, it's
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: because you're you've got so many money problems that you are. Um,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: you're completely vulnerable to somebody coming you and and sort
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: of tapping you on the shoulder and saying, hey, I
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: can fix this all for X. But I actually feel
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: like the number at the NBA level is in the
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: tens of millions. I think it's eight figures before it
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: becomes worthwhile for an NBA player to even come close
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: to considering throwing a game. It could be, I mean,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: it could be. It depends on who you're talking about.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can maybe get a third best player
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: to do it for you know, a million, A couple
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: of MILLI made. But again, that's what we're talking about,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: is if you're gonna pay someone, let's say you're gonna
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: pay someone a million dollars or two million dollars to
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: fix the game for you, I need to make it
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: worth your while. You're gonna have to get down four,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: four or five million. I mean, I don't care who
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: you are. You're gonna be able a gam four or
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: five million dollars a method. That's that's tough. Try jam
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: that type of money down on one game. So I
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: just don't think and I mean I could be off
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: on the numbers obviously, but I just it would be
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: too tough with college five grand back, you can bet
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: fifty grand. You can get down fifty grand, hundred grand
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: just about that. Some of these big guys can get
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: that down easily. So if someone were to say, hey,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: like I got great information for you, you know, I'll
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: charge you grand for it. So the kid gets five,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: the guy who has information, it's twenty five. And then
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: the betters, you know, can bet a hundred or whatever,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and everybody, everybody makes money. I mean, yeah, absolutely, I
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: still think the easiest guys to do would be and
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: be be somewhat tougher. But the officials, I mean, that's
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: really where I mean. If you were trying to fix
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the game, just think if you had an umpire in
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: your back pocket. I mean, you could have a small
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: strike zone, a large strike zone. I mean, I can't
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: guarantee the guys can hit the ball, but if you
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: get me an Eric greg strike zone in the in
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the World Series about fifteen years ago, the Marlins and
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the Indians, like, I almost guarantee that game is gonna
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: go under, or you get a super tight strike zone,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: NBA call a few more fouls, put them in the
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: penalty earlier, better total whether it be over or under football.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: How you can throw a flag that's about in every place.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: If you want to bet a total on that game,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, you say, let's go there in fog range,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: let's call holding, moving back ten yards and make it
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: more difficult for him to score. So those are the
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: guys I think that would be most vulnerable. I don't
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: know that they are, but I'm just saying, if you
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: were going to fix the game, I think a total
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: and an official and you're probably in pretty good shape.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Why do you know so much about betting? How did
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: you get into it? Oh? Man, jeez? That they My
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: mom and dad played poker when I was younger, and
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: they used to let me play occasionally with the neighborhood couples.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: They I'll come over and play, and I want to play,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: And I'd sit at the table and and watch them play.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: And they didn't let me play until god, I was
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: probably you know, they let me sit in a couple
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: of times, a couple of rounds and we played poker.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: And then from there me and my buddies used to
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: go to loss al At Race Track down in southern California.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Who it's a thoroughbred track now used to be quarter horses,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: so we used to go there on on Friday nights
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: and it was funny. We'd get in there and one
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: would pay, then we'd go in and let the other
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: ones in through the side door lass out, because I mean,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: our reasoning was, what the hell they're gonna take our
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: money anyway? What do we gotta pay four bucks to enter?
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: You kidding me? Let us go in there and just
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: lose our money. So between bucks, nine races, two dollars
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: a race, and a dollar for a hot dog, dollar
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: for a soda. So that was like like Friday nights
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: out at uh los Ale and then from there, you know,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Vegas trips, uh you know, we're eighteen nineteen. Me and
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: my buddy used to take there were these trips that
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: go to Vegas uh gambling junkts, these vans that would
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: leave like Friday evening and come back Sunday morning. So
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: we'd go and get a room, like a cheap room somewhere,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: maybe at the start Us. And it was funny because
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: everyone else is going there to gamble. We don't want
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: to gamble the whole time, So we brought tennis rackets
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: and we had to hide the tennis racket because they
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: don't want you. I mean, I let you have a
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: gambling junk at van with tennis rackets, like taking this, guys,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: they're played tennis, so we had to hide the rackets.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: We played tennis a little bit and then uh then
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: gamble and then come home on on Sunday morning, and
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean that's aid. Before it started though,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: was probably I'd watched my mom and dad, watch my
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: mom and dad play play cards, and my mom likes
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: to gamble a little bit. They live in Vegas now
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: and they like to go and they'll play their bingo
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: and they're both retired, so lingo and mom play the
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: nickel slots stuff like that. But uh, yeah, that's probably
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: where it started, right there, right there at home. Did
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: you feel like you had an advantage because you were
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: an athlete, like you understood the games better gambling or
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: sports wagering sports wagering, No, not at all. I mean
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I don't think anybody. In fact, I think that's can
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: be the worst thing for you, is thinking you understand
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: the game because there's so many gambling and picking the
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: winner two different things, and they just they are. In baseball,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit different. Hockey is a little bit
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: different because you have money lines football, basketball or spreads.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: But even with the the money lines, I mean now,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, okay, is a team worth being a one
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: You think they're gonna win? But are they worth being
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: a one seventy favorite? Maybe they're not, but maybe it
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: won fifty. They're a good play. I don't think value
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: was understand I mean, values really really tough to understand.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I don't really understand it myself. Uh you know, I
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: try to get to spreads and games and go, okay,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: what would it take me to bet the other side?
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: If I like one side, what would it take me
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: to bet the other side? But the back back to
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: the original question, I don't think it helps because I
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: understand every sport. I mean some more, some more than others,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: but everything, every one of the four majors. I understand
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: enough to like know what teams the better team, and
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: what team could win, what teams should win. But then
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: there's you know, with with professional sports, scheduling is a
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: big deal and mindset is a big deal, and you
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: never know. I mean that's the one thing in basketball, baseball, hockey,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: who was out the night before? Who gotta got a
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: good night's sleep the night before who's having trouble in
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: their home life? I mean, who knows all these things.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know all these things, but I mean the
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: mindset is a big deal for professional athlete, and if
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: you don't know it, I mean he kind of bet
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: in blindly a little bit. But now I don't think
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I have any advantage. I know sports, I know him well.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: As far as gambling goes, it doesn't. I mean it
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: may help a little bit here there, like bet in
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: a second half. If I watch a game, I can
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: kind of dissect what's going on and what may continue
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: to go on, what adjustments coaches may make at halftime.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: But really, now, eyeballs can be your worst enemies as
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: a better eyeballs and sort of what you think you
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: know because of your experience. Yep, absolutely, and you can
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: be deceived. The game that I want to play with
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: you is that we have you know, people who have
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: been very successful in life. Uh. Some would say they're
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: all Americans, Um, why do you have me on that? Exactly? Uh?
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: They will come on. I will say, Uh, it's a
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: second we call you bet your life. You're gonna tell
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: me the biggest risk you've taken in life and how
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: it played out, could be good news, could be bad news,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: could be bad news that led to something else down
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: the road that ultimately was fantastic. But tell me about
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the biggest risk you've taken in life and what happened
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: in life or in wagering life. God, I don't even
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: know what risk I've taken in life. I guess who.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: That's a tough one. I mean, I guess what led
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: me here. And I don't know if I'd have been
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: here anyway. But when I was at you see Irvine,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: I got a scholarship do you see Irvine? Out of
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: high school? I went to our teacher high school scholarship
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: do you see Irvine? Uh was there for a year
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: and a half and I transferred to Currito's College to
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: play football. And I wanted to play football. I never
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: played football in high school, and I thought, you know
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: what I can I could play football. I know I
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: can play football, and I can play at a big
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: time level, and I'm gonna go to through this college
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: and in play football. But I told my mom, almost surious,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: that I had given up my scholarship or I was
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: going to give up my scholarship at Irvine because Irvine's
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: a that was pretty good school, and I'm getting, you know,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: getting at least get an education. And I just said, look,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: this is what I'm gonna do, is that I I
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: want to do this. So I didn't even make it
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: to spring practice, and we were just running some seven
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: on seven I think I might have been running or
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: maybe no, maybe it was eleven on eleven, but we
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: weren't even in pads. So I got to a crossing
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: route and I'm crossing. I get knocked down by the
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: by the tight end or by the defensive end, and
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: the other tight end comes across and he's running in
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: a shallow or crossing route and he hits the clips
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: my shoulder. As I'm getting up, my whole body spins,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: my clik get stuck in the ground. I dissocate my hip.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Never dislocated anything in my life. I knew exactly what
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: I had done when I did it. It was the
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: most painful thing ever. So I'm laying on the ground,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: uh for about a half an hour. Get the ambulance
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: out there, take me to the hospital, put the hip
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: back in place, which was which was interesting. They finally
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: gave me a shot and I look at the doctor
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: and He's standing over me with my leg trying to
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: pull it and and configure it to where he could
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: get to get at the right angle and then pull
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: it up real quick to get the hit back in
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: the socket. And I couldn't feel anything at the time,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: but I'm looking at him thinking that's my leg, my leg.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I closed my eyes, went to bed. I couldn't watch
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: anymore that it's like ridiculous. So I remember watching the
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Villanova door found uh into the final. I think that
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: was eight five maybe in the hospital bed. I was
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: in the hospital for like a week, and I said,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: all right, that's enough of enough football. I'm gonna gonna
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: get back playing basketball. So after my hip healed, I
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: started playing hoops again, getting in shape, and then got
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: a scholarship to Arizona and the rest is kind of history.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: But that was a you know, that was you know,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: who knows who would happened if I wouldn't have got hurt.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Uh and ended up working out okay for me, although
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: now I have a new hip to the show for
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I got that a couple of years ago. Uh So, yeah,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: that was probably the biggest risk I took because I
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: didn't know exactly what was gonna happen. I felt like
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: it would work out okay, like I would figure out
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: a way to to make the same work. I still
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: felt like I could have played football if I wouldn't
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: have been been injured. But if I didn't leave Irvine,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: then who knows if I if I go to Arizona,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: probably not Final four, probably not met my wife at Arizona,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: and that led to an NBA career, which led to
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: doing the radio appears. So don you ever know what
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: turns U turns you may make in life right or left?
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: And now it's gonna work out? Well, I would agree
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: with you. You stay at Irvine, you are never getting
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: any of those things. Like Irvine was just not a
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: basketball factory in the way Arizona was. You're not playing
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: with Seawan Elliott and Steve Kerr and getting coached by
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: lud Olsen. If like you're us Irvine, No, there's there's
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: no doubt. If I give you a funny aside. So
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Bill Mulligan, who was a coach, late Bill Mulligan, uh
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: at hevery mine when I was there and I told
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: him I was on a transfer. I remember we're sitting
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: out by by the pool at Santa Clara as a
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: cable car class, and I told him, I go, you
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: know this, this isn't working out. I go, I just,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: I just I don't feel like you trust me. I
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: don't feel like I want to be here. I don't
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: know that you want me here. I go, I'm just
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: gonna be on a transfer and try to play football
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: at Truto's college. And you know, maybe if it doesn't
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: worry me to play basketball somewhere. And I remember looking
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: at me, go, you go, that's not gonna work. I go,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: all right, well, I guess if you don't care, what's
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: the difference does it make? Let me? Let me go? Anyway.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: I think it was a languor that I was leaving.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Uh So, anyway, fast forward a number of years. Had
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: already been in the NBA a few years and and
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: having a pretty good career. And I was in Vegas, surprisingly, uh,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: walking down the strip, uh, and I who'd I run into?
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Bill Mulligan. Bill Mulligan was actually in Vegas, and I
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: ran into him, like, hey, coach, get what's going on?
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: He goes, Hey, Tommy Horrea goes remember what I said?
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: I go, oh, yeah, he goes I was wrong, And
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I told him I said, well, we didn't need to
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: tell me that. I already already knew that at everybody
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: in the NBA for like four years at the time.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: But it was kind of a kind of a funny
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: moment that he goes, yeah, I was wrong. Yeah, I
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: know who is the who is the best gambler in
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: the NBA when you were playing? Oh, I don't know
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: of one. I don't know if any good gamblers. I
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: used to I used to make money on road trips playing. Uh,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: we'd play when I was with the Clippers and I
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: and they loved so we played poker and they loved
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: playing like new games. So I had all kinds of
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: new games, and of course I knew the rules of
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: the games, and I was teaching them the rules of
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: the games. And it was gonna cost them money to
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: learn the rules of the games, but they didn't care.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I bet twenty or forty bucks. I bet
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: twenty I raised fifty sixty. So one of my favorite
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: games was seven Cards No Peak. And for those that
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: have never played it, what it is. You get seven cards, uh,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: and they're all faced down so you can't see any
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: of your cards, and the person to your immediate left
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: starts first. You go clockwise, so you turn over a
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: card off the top of the deck, and let's say
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: it's a five. Person to the left has to keep
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: turning over cards until they beat the five. So let's
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: say your first card that ace boom, you beat it
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: round a betting. Next person goes. They have to beat
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: an ace, so either an ace plus something or a pair,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: so a pair of fours now they bet. Now the
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: other person has to be a pair of four, so
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: it just keeps going around. You have to beat the
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: person to your right, and then around a betting commences.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: So it was awesome because they love to play it,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: because they love the suspense of turning over the cards
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: and seeing what they could get. And oh the meanwhile,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: I'm counting all the cards on the table, saying, okay,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: what do I have on my hand? How many cards
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: are out there? If I need a four and there's
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: four fours out there, obviously they can't get it. If
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: there's no fources out there, get a better chance of
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: getting it. How many spades are out there if I
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: need a spade? Flush or right? All those sort of things.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: So you know i'd fold if I didn't have a
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: good hand or raised if I thought I had a
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: decent chance that of catching the card and winning the pot.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: They didn't care. They just wanted to bet and keep
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: turning the cards over to see what the head. I mean,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: one time I forgot who it was, turned his cards over,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: like he beat I think I got like fifty sixty
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: bucks something like that. He turned his cards over and
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: he couldn't beat me. He just wanted to be like
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: he wanted. I didn't tell him, but he wanted to see, like, okay,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: what do I have her? I'm like, oh, thanks for
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the fifty bucks. Like I mean, he could not mathematically,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: he couldn't beat me. He just could not beat me.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: He didn't even have cards left that he hadn't seen
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: to be able to beat my full house or whatever
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: I had. So yeah, that was fun. And then we
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: had guys. We had a guy with the Warriors. I
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: was playing playing blackjack with him, and I guess I
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: could say his name. I said on the radio Tyrone Hill,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: who I played with. And I liked Tyrone a lot,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: but I mean just his blackjack skills. We're playing black
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: jack and he gives him my cards and eight teen Okay,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: I'll stay and he flips his over fifteen seven and
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: he goes to take my money. What are you doing?
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: He goes, what's closest to twenty one? I go, what
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: what do you what? Were you closest to twenty one?
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: It's not closest one, it's close to twenty one without
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: going over twenty one. He goes, no, it's not. I go,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: somebody tell this guy. I go, somebody telling that's the
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: way you play black jack. So it finally goes, yeah,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: that's yeah, of course, that's the why you play black jacks.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: I take my money and the next time we both
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: get twenties and he goes to take my money again.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I go, what are you dealing? He goes what dealer
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: gets pushes. I go, I where do you go? Where
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: do you play black jack? Because I want to go
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: play there. I want to go play black jack. Where
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: you go play black jack? Or either that or you
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: let me deal. I go. If you let me deal
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: with your rules, I swear I'll drive to your house
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: after we get back from road trips and I'll just
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: deal to you. You do, tell me when you're done,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: then I'll go home, and then you tell me when
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: you want to play and I'll come back and deal
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: some more. I go if it's closest to twenty one
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: and I get pushes. You killed me in for that. Well,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: like basically everyone wants to play at the House of Hill.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Like that is, he's setting the rules. Whatever rules he
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: decides are the ones you get to play by. It
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: feels like everyone's gonna make a lot more money. Like
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: that was ready, I wouldn't be doing this job. If
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I could deal black check like that, I'd open up
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: my own joint. But like when you're in the NBA,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: how high did the hands get? Like on a car,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: like on a card game on the plane? How high
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: will the hands get? Highest the hand I have, highest
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: hand ever got? When you're playing freaking uh Acy Doozy
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: or between the sheets, I'm sure anybody that plays cards
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: knows what that is. But basically, it's two cards. You've
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: got two cards down, and if you think you can
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: get between those two cards, you bet as much of
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: the pot as you want to. So a six and
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: a ten would be terrible, uh two and a king
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: would be great. Your best hand would be ace. Ace
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: called because you can call the first day's higher, and
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I always called the first dates low, just in case
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I got the second ash, which was always high, because
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: then boom, you're you're you're good. The only way you
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: can get beat is with another ace. Now the catches,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: if you match your card, you pay double. So if
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: you happen to get another ace, which I've seen happened before,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: it's not pretty. Uh, you gotta double the pot. So
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: this is what I was with the Warriors, and it
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: was like me and Nelly and Pimmy and uh, I
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: don't I don't think Chris was planned. Maybe Mitch and
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: and Rod and I mean there's all of us, like
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: so many of us were playing. So the pot was
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: at one point four four thousand dollars and it was
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: my turn. First card ace low, second card ace high.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Now I'm a rookie at this point, so I'm making
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: decent money, but not not you know, maybe a couple
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: hundred rand something like that. So thinking, okay, who Either
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: I can I can go for all of it. Either
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: I went four grand, which is almost assured because there's
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: only two waces left in the deck because it did
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: a fresh deck, so there's still two ways of lurking.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking it's either I went four I'm gonna lose eight,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: I go, I can't. I can't lose eight. I got
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: the eight grand I go, you kidding down on a card?
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: So I said, I'll go for half of it. So
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I went for two, and of course it came like
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: seven of diamonds, and I was like, God damn it,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: why did't I go for all of us? Stupid? I
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: should have went for all of it. Uh. And then
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: I ended up winning a little bit more. But there
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: ended up being like seven thousand in the pot at
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: one point, because I mean, the guys that have money,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: they don't care. Jack four. That must be good. It's
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: a face card in a kind of a low card
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: that must be pretty good. It's like, dude, there's like
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: thirteen cards. Start figuring out what cards are in the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: middle of stub jack and four you got five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: That's six. That doesn't quite add up, now, does it.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: But they didn't care. I was like, oh, face card four,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: We're good. So the pod got huge, and I just
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: remember what am I My favorite parts was. I think
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Nelly went for one time missed it and I don't
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: know how it ended up working out, but I ended
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: up having check from Nelly, which I thought was pretty cool.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: I love, I love. I love that he's writing you
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: a check that check for a gay I love he's
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: writing you a check fors and uh. He's also like
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: one of the greatest coaches I've ever lived. I love
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: the fact that he's knee deep in the game. Awesome.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Absolutely for the game. It was an unbelievable game. That's awesome. Alright,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Tom Tilber, I gotta let you go, man, get back
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: to your all American life and to your I know what, Man,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: you're living large. I appreciate it. Oh, no problem. Chad
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: and I have a fun conference turning week and a
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: fun tournament and hopefully be profitable for all of us.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: I hope, so I say, I'll taught you later. Man.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Thanks