Latest / philly has heART / All About Tech: Scenery feat. Nathan Renner-Johnson and Sasha Jin Schwartz

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All About Tech: Scenery feat. Nathan Renner-Johnson and Sasha Jin Schwartz · philly has heART

0:14
Wake up, babe. It's fall. It was such a beautiful
0:19
experience. He's no longer with us, but his wife
0:23
still is and their children and grandchildren
0:26
who flew from all over the country to come for
0:31
the dedication of their father and grandfather
0:35
to explore the building with them, revisit his
0:39
legacy. Martha, who is the pianist at... Philadelphia
0:44
Ballet has been there for 50 years, so she has
0:46
some great stories to share about her experience
0:49
with the music director back in the day. And
0:55
then, busy Saturday, took the train up to New
1:00
York. had a beautiful lunch at Borgo, and then
1:04
up to the Met for the costume exhibit. Went a
1:08
little later this year than I usually, it's usually
1:11
something I do over the summertime, finally found
1:14
its permanent home at the Met. And this year's
1:17
Costume Institute explored depictions of the
1:22
dressed bodies across the Met's vast collection,
1:25
pairing garments with artwork. like a veiled
1:28
woman in marble statue next to this goddess -like
1:34
drapery of the white dress. Stunning. Stunning.
1:39
Matching like really great pieces of art with
1:43
dresses that are depicted in the art. As the
1:46
Met does, they had, they explored it a little.
1:50
with putting objects next to garments of art
1:54
as well. Made our way downtown because we did
1:58
get some amazing tickets to Harry Styles. And
2:02
let me tell you, that man is a showman. Showman.
2:06
You don't have to sell me on Harry Styles. I
2:09
get it. Oh, those little short shorts. Oh my
2:13
gosh. What are these little shorts? 30. shows
2:17
at madison square garden and we were number 18
2:19
so oh yeah geez yeah he killed it wow killed
2:26
it took the last train out of new york last night
2:29
and then actually quite convenient because msg
2:33
is right near right there right there you literally
2:36
just like go downstairs yeah yes yeah how about
2:41
you how was first friday so much fun we Went
2:45
to Procession Gallery, Muse Gallery. We stopped
2:50
in at Pentimenti. Do you remember that one architect
2:52
I met at Tuna Bar that one time while screaming
2:55
about STC ratings? I turn around and he's in
2:59
there talking to Christine. Apparently Rob knows.
3:01
Yeah, also Rob. knows Christine and was there
3:05
for the Eric Spain talk. We actually ducked out
3:08
right before the talk began and went across the
3:11
street to Two Street Club because Chelsea and
3:13
Mario were only going to be there for the first
3:16
few hours of the evening. Started downpouring.
3:22
hung out in the basement bar for a while. Then
3:25
we went to Pie Gallery, and that show is insane
3:29
right now. It's called Abstract Constructivism.
3:33
It's a show, all sculptures, wood sculptures
3:36
by Alan Levine. There's just layers on layers.
3:41
and configurations of wood in geometric form.
3:45
Then we went to the Museum for Art and Wood.
3:48
We got reined in there for a while. And then
3:52
we made it down to Paradigm Gallery and we saw
3:55
friends of the pod, Rhonda and Kate, on the top
3:59
story at BYO Print. I think Kate told me something
4:03
that I needed to put on my calendar and instead
4:05
of putting it on the calendar, I just texted
4:07
you about it. It was a rainy night, but... A
4:10
lot of fun. Excellent. And I do a lot of friends.
4:14
Very great. Very great. How many barriers classes
4:17
did you do this weekend? Only one. And I had
4:22
to block out my schedule for it. How many sporting
4:24
club spin classes did we do? Four. And I had
4:28
to block out my schedule for all of them. Robert,
4:31
speaking of my schedule, permission to vent for
4:36
a moment? Sure. I think you're nervous. I also
4:42
think some people are under the impression that
4:44
the podcast is our full time job. And beyond
4:48
that, our time is unlimited. You're rolling your
4:52
eyes right now. Robert and I both have eight
4:56
to five careers and families. We are literally
4:59
at the office from eight to five Monday through
5:02
Friday and either at school and pick up or. taking
5:06
mom out to dinner. And we found Philly Has Heart
5:08
out of the extension of our volunteerism. And
5:11
when I had the idea, yes, my idea, it only made
5:15
sense that I should team up with Robert for it.
5:18
And in large part, this goes back to the fact
5:20
that Robert and I have been working together
5:23
through the Young Friends of the Philadelphia
5:26
Ballet. Going back to 2017, guys, that's nearly
5:28
a decade. Again, volunteerism. If you're listening
5:33
to us now and feel you have an interesting story
5:36
as an artist or creative, we want to hear from
5:38
you. I recently added a potential guest Google
5:41
Sheet in our link tree. So fill that out and
5:44
skip the line when we return from winter hiatus
5:47
2027. So that wasn't so bad, Robert. No, but
5:52
I can guarantee you that nobody has a busier
5:54
schedule than Lou. Granted, she chose this life.
5:58
Bondage. And she is aware of that. But pivoting.
6:03
Philadelphia Ballet is back this week. Can I
6:06
give a roll call? Read it out. Dancer with range,
6:09
Dolan, Thais, newest principal on the block,
6:12
Goltz, Yuka, Udabas, Isida, Oksana, OG, going
6:16
back to the PA Ballet days, Maslova, and Mayara.
6:20
She accessorized with an axe last year, Pinheiro.
6:24
Soloists. Jackie, power suit badass duality if
6:27
you know you know Callahan. Lucia, we are still
6:30
nuts for the shirker plum fairy Erickson. Alex,
6:33
called up from apprentice hire. Mine started
6:36
at The Rock, now she's here, Cusano. Core to
6:39
ballet. Siobhan, Philadelphia Ballet School and
6:42
PB2 homegrown Howley. Mayfield, who needs a field
6:46
when you command the stage? Myers. Natalie, always
6:49
on point. Patel. Aaron, she's Aaron. Decent.
6:52
Patterson. Sophie, we see you. Savas. Carstens.
6:55
Emily, Miss Ballet. Worldwide. Wilson. PB2. Tatiana,
6:59
let her cook. No kitchen needed. Chen. Mariana,
7:03
Philly has hearts. One to watch. Dominguez. Reppin'
7:06
both core and PB2. Isabella, Ava, Olivia, the
7:10
Dynasty. D -Medio, shout out mom, Charity Egan's.
7:16
Are you so excited for Stars and Stripes Forever?
7:20
Totally, but let's dive into some scenery tea.
7:23
Diving in. This is Robert Marsh, and you're listening
7:39
to Philly Has Heart Podcast. In this podcast,
7:42
we sit down with the artists, gallerists, educators,
7:45
curators, and other creatives who comprise the
7:47
Philadelphia art world to discuss upcoming performances,
7:51
exhibits, and other events and initiatives that
7:53
are not to be missed. The art scene in Philadelphia
7:57
is so rich that it can seem daunting. Consider
8:00
this your weekend cultural recommendation. With
8:03
me always is my producer, Lucinda Diggerland.
8:06
Hola! And today we have Nathan Renner Johnson
8:11
and Sasha Jin Schwartz. Welcome. Welcome. Thank
8:15
you. Anytime. So can you each share your name
8:20
and your job title and your company or if you
8:23
are freelance? Sure, absolutely. My name is Nathan
8:25
Renner Johnson. I am the executive director of
8:27
Philadelphia Scenic Works. Hi, I'm Sasha Jin
8:30
Schwartz and I'm a freelance theater set designer.
8:33
Excellent. Excellent. Sasha, we'll start with
8:36
you. Could you take us through your journey that
8:39
brought you to the role in theater today? What
8:43
moments, both big and small, directed you to
8:46
that space? Yeah, absolutely. I was definitely
8:50
just like a weird art kid and was always really
8:54
drawn to painting and drawing and sculpture.
8:59
That kind of led me to making props for like
9:02
the middle school theater club and then getting
9:05
into building and painting and designing sets
9:07
in high school. And those ended up being like
9:09
my first jobs as a teenager to like stage managing
9:12
the like dance shows that would come through
9:15
town or like painting the summer theater camp
9:17
sets. And I feel like I can remember that like
9:23
nascent moment of. like drawing something really
9:27
crappily on like graph paper at the time because
9:29
I didn't understand what drafting was and like
9:32
coloring it in with colored pencil and then working
9:34
with this crew in high school of like basically
9:37
like all like teenage girls who were like making
9:41
all the sets for the school plays together and
9:44
then watching the set become big and watching
9:46
actors inhabit it and just like it was such a
9:49
super magical moment of watching your small idea
9:52
on paper become. um real and big and scale uh
9:57
it was like such a uh intoxicating sort of feeling
10:00
and you know my I feel like as a young person
10:03
you're uh trying to find your way in the world
10:06
it's hard to feel like you have control over
10:08
your life and I feel like being on the the crew
10:11
made me feel like I had agency over something
10:14
like my art practice and it also gave me this
10:16
community of these people in the shop that I
10:18
was working with and other people in the club
10:20
so yeah theater like absolutely saved my life
10:22
as a young person, and I feel like that beginning
10:25
moment has carried me forward into just feeling
10:28
really lucky that I get to do it as my career
10:31
now, as a grown -up. Wow, I love that. That's
10:34
very unique. Well, before I forget, I also got
10:36
you guys a gift. What? Well, I heard you're recording
10:41
57 episodes today, so this is something that
10:44
maybe will help you through it. For the audience,
10:47
Nathan has pulled out a lovely pink bag with
10:51
pink tissue. with pink ribbon. It is. From CVS
10:56
on the way here, so don't. Absolutely amazing.
10:58
Shout out to CVS. We'd love a sponsorship. Where
11:03
you can grab things at any point in time. Cup
11:12
water espresso martinis. Can you hold that up?
11:17
Yes. They're a beautiful set of four. Cup water
11:20
espresso martinis. Are we going to shake them
11:23
up now? Can you shake them? Can you shake them?
11:25
I have to read. I have to read it. Oh my gosh.
11:28
Wait, there's alcohol in it? There is alcohol
11:30
in it, so you know. Let's go. You know what?
11:35
Sunday fun day had by all. There you go. Oh my
11:41
goodness. Thank you. This is incredible. This
11:43
is the first time we've been ever gifted. That's
11:45
not true. Should we start a drinking podcast?
11:51
This is now a drinking podcast. Maybe the last
11:54
episode of the day or something. We can start
11:58
with bloodies and then make our way through it.
12:01
By the time you end with the tequila sunrise
12:04
or something. And then you end at the emergency
12:06
room. Cheers. Cheers all. Thank you, Nathan.
12:10
Thank you so much. All right, now I'll answer
12:15
your question. Okay. So I, too, was a weird art
12:18
kid. I grew up loving theater. I went all the
12:21
time. But I guess my inclination was more nerdy.
12:25
Like, I wanted to do theater. And so they would
12:27
be like, great, you can go be in this play. And
12:29
I'll be like, ooh, what is that over there? Can
12:30
I touch that light board? And they'd be like,
12:32
when you get to high school right now, put on
12:33
this costume and sing and dance. And so I kept,
12:35
like, trying to go towards the tech stuff. And
12:37
they kept, like, trying to direct me back. And
12:39
in high school, I discovered what stage management
12:40
was. And I was like, oh, this is so cool because
12:42
you can be involved in everything. And then,
12:44
like, also be, like, figuring out the puzzle
12:45
logistics. and then I went to college for stage
12:47
management and then I discovered production management
12:49
and I was like this is like stage management
12:51
but even like a longer term game thing of like
12:54
figuring out the puzzles and the pieces and then
12:56
ultimately I worked a number of production management
12:58
jobs and I moved to Philly. And I realized that
13:00
there was something in Philly that was kind of
13:02
missing, which was there was all of these really
13:04
robust, small theaters that were doing really
13:06
high -quality work, and they didn't have a scenic
13:09
solution. We were looking for a technical director
13:12
for one show, and then we wouldn't do something
13:15
again for another year. And so that person had
13:16
moved on with their life, and we were always
13:17
looking for someone new, someone new, someone
13:18
new, like that. And so as the time as I'm realizing
13:21
this, everybody else in Philadelphia is realizing
13:22
this too, and there's sort of the birth of Philadelphia
13:25
Scenic Works at that time. And so I got involved
13:27
as sort of an advisor, and then I got on the
13:29
board. board and then I was the board chair and
13:30
ultimately I became the executive director of
13:32
the organization basically just because it felt
13:34
like something that the city needed and I wanted
13:36
to help birth and help make happen and I just
13:39
kept getting pulled in further and further and
13:41
further. Sasha back to you where did you go to
13:44
school and did you study something in the theater
13:47
realm? I did I was very lucky that my immigrant
13:51
parents were like yeah you can go to theater
13:53
school if this is like what you're sure you want
13:55
to do professionally because at that time in
13:57
high school I was like this is like all that
13:59
I know, you know, it combined all of my interests
14:01
and skill sets. And I went to Carnegie Mellon
14:05
in Pittsburgh for undergrad and then have just
14:08
been freelancing since then. How are you? I did.
14:14
I went to Muhlenberg in Allentown. I actually
14:16
went to, Carnegie Mellon has this great... high
14:18
school tech theater program that's like six weeks
14:20
long and I was like one of the 12 kids who were
14:22
in the tech program there and I saw it and I
14:24
loved it and I was like can I go here and like
14:26
can I also do environmental science because Carnegie
14:28
Mellon's a great environmental science school
14:29
and they were like well you could take a environmental
14:31
science class and I was like I don't know if
14:34
I want to do this forever. I don't know if I
14:35
want to do theater forever. I don't want to dive
14:37
in because I was too scared. So I went to Muhlenberg
14:39
because they had a great arts program and a great
14:41
science program. And so that's kind of where
14:43
I found my calling of being able to do both.
14:47
And like I said, I went for stage management
14:49
thinking that I was going to be a stage manager
14:50
and stage managing shows. And I quickly realized
14:53
it was like you're bouncing. It's a freelance
14:55
lifestyle where you're bouncing around from one
14:56
job to another and always looking for the next
14:58
thing and having to be your own marketing person.
15:00
And I was like, I don't know. I really want to
15:02
like. embed somewhere and really make a place
15:04
better and figure out how to do this over and
15:07
over again in a consistent way, which really
15:10
drew me to production management. For the audience,
15:12
can either of you kind of define what the role
15:16
is in the production and how you are kind of
15:20
the glue that is needed to pull together all
15:24
of the scenes? Of scenery? Yes. Yeah, so my role
15:28
as a set designer is to work with the core creative
15:31
team, which is usually a director and the rest
15:34
of the design team. You know, usually there's
15:36
scenics, costumes, lighting, sound, sometimes
15:38
video, sometimes... props design to conceptualize
15:42
of the physical world of the show then the boundaries
15:47
of time and money and logistics and also like
15:50
what the dream is for the production and that
15:53
can run the gamut depending on what type of project
15:56
it is so for like a more traditional like regional
15:59
theater show that's usually like you get a script
16:01
and It's been produced before, but you're hoping
16:03
to do it in a new and exciting way, depending
16:05
on the vision of the team and the director. Or
16:08
in the case of a new work that's being workshopped
16:11
or devised, you might be more there at the beginning
16:14
as words are being created to the project, as
16:17
the show is being created literally from the
16:18
beginning, where you might be contributing scenic
16:21
ideas of what if the world sort of feels like
16:23
this, and how does that inform the story in this
16:25
way? So there's many different pathways forward.
16:29
based off of what you're starting with. But I
16:32
feel like being that brain of like, what does
16:34
the space, what can the space offer to the show?
16:36
What does the space mean for the show? How does
16:39
the space make the characters feel? I feel like
16:42
a big sort of like North Star for me with scenic
16:45
design is because my family is not from America
16:49
and my family's very mixed. I feel like I've
16:51
been spending a lot of my... A childhood and
16:54
young adult life thinking about where people
16:56
feel safe, where people belong. And scenic design
16:59
feels like this really cool space where you get
17:01
to think about where the characters in the show
17:04
feel like they belong. Like how does the space
17:06
make people feel? How does the space make the
17:08
audiences feel when they walk in? And then one
17:10
of the most cool parts of my job is getting to
17:13
work either on like scrappy DIY projects. I'm
17:16
like building, painting, and propping the show
17:17
myself. Or on other projects I'm working with
17:20
a staff. a TD or painter or props person or in
17:24
the case of Philly Scenic Works working with
17:26
an outside shop just to see how your like dreamy
17:30
concept idea can become real. I often find that
17:34
the like budgeting and sort of on the ground
17:37
work of how of thinking about how a set can actually
17:40
come to fruition oftentimes makes the design
17:42
better than just like the full dream version
17:44
because you get to like collaborate and work
17:47
with all of these amazing people who also have
17:50
really special ideas about how the world could
17:52
function. Tried to liaison into yours. Well,
17:55
when you were talking, you made me think that
17:58
scenery has like a really interesting role in
17:59
the process because oftentimes it's first and
18:01
part of that is practical. Like it kind of needs
18:03
more time to be built and figured out. But it
18:05
also kind of sets literally and figuratively
18:07
like sets the stage for the tone. It's sort of
18:09
when the director can kind of see what his or
18:12
her vision. is manifesting into amongst a team
18:15
of designers. And so oftentimes lighting is waiting
18:18
for the set design before they can figure out
18:19
how to play on top of that. Costume similarly
18:21
is like, well, I've got to make sure that that
18:23
doesn't clash and that it can all work together.
18:24
And so sometimes there are really strong ideas
18:26
about what lighting or costumes or sound needs
18:28
to be from the script, of course. But oftentimes
18:30
scenic is the first thing early on where that
18:32
stuff starts to play out and the world starts
18:34
to be visualized. And so both artistically and
18:37
figuratively in terms of solving the puzzle of
18:40
how do we fit this show into this space, scenery
18:42
often takes that. first role and it really is
18:45
a big puzzle of how do we tell this story conceptually
18:49
with the resources that we have and with the
18:52
design concept that we have and the show concept
18:53
that we have and so I think both in Sasha's job
18:57
and also in our job of building the set and the
18:59
fabricating of the set it's a lot of a logistical
19:01
puzzle of like well we've got to have these 12
19:04
scenes and from an artistic perspective is that
19:06
something where we do a unit set and they sort
19:11
of are all really abstract? Or do we try to represent
19:12
those things in really specific ways? And if
19:14
it is, in either version, what are the elements
19:17
that kind of convey conceptually to the audience
19:20
what they see? And speaking of scenery being
19:23
the first thing, oftentimes a theater doesn't
19:25
have a show curtain. You walk in and it's literally
19:27
the audience's first perception of the show.
19:28
And so they get a lot of information about the
19:30
tone and the placemaking that the design team
19:33
and the director are doing before they even see
19:35
an actor or hear a spoken word of the text. And
19:38
so it's really an important role for that. We've
19:40
kind of asked what does a daily life look like,
19:43
but even as we've asked that throughout today,
19:46
we've kind of found that you're juggling a lot
19:50
all at the same time, right? You could be dealing
19:52
with a couple productions in different varieties
19:55
of the timeline of that production. at the same
19:59
time. And so all of those days could be very
20:02
different from the next. What, though, is that,
20:06
what does that timeline look like from that start
20:09
of, hey, we have this idea, to the curtain goes
20:15
up? Yeah, that's, like, one of the really cool
20:18
parts about being a freelance designer, and also
20:21
sometimes one of the stressful parts, but is
20:23
that, yeah, like, every day looks different.
20:25
And I feel like at any given time, there's, like,
20:28
four to eight shows like sort of circling in
20:31
your brain that are at different parts of the
20:33
process and I feel like a an ideal sort of dream
20:36
length of time from like First meeting to opening
20:40
is like six months, if not a little bit more,
20:42
ideally. I've also been lucky enough to be a
20:45
part of projects where we're like workshopping,
20:47
doing like small productions and then developing
20:50
the show further. And those can be more like
20:52
years and years long, like really collaborative
20:54
processes or like touring shows can feel like
20:57
that too. But I'd say for like a quote unquote
20:59
typical process, usually like one stretch of
21:01
show takes about that long to conceptualize.
21:07
Yeah, I'd say if I could give the quick and dirty
21:09
sort of scenic design process for that quote
21:11
-unquote typical production, it would be getting
21:14
a script or concept. collaborating you know most
21:17
closely with the director and the core creative
21:20
team members research and like finding images
21:23
and art that feel applicable to to the show I
21:26
think like a big part of my role as a designer
21:28
is also to just like absorb as much art as possible
21:30
so I can be like oh this reminds me of this thing
21:33
that I saw at the museum or this like leaf that
21:35
I saw on the sidewalk like that's like one of
21:37
my favorite things is when I can bring sort of
21:39
my own experiences into that research process
21:42
and like text back and forth with the director.
21:44
Like, do you think this would work into like
21:46
more intensive designing time would be, there's
21:48
like so many ways of doing this. Like some people
21:50
sketch, some people make models. That's kind
21:53
of like more my thing just because my brain works
21:55
in this like 3d way. And then once that sort
21:58
of solidifies the. overall vibe or concept that
22:03
you're going for, then it would be more about
22:05
like drafting, going into specifics, like exactly
22:08
to the eighth of an inch, like what each piece
22:10
wants to be, making paint elevations and picking
22:13
swatches, making a props packet of research and
22:16
information for all of the objects in the world,
22:18
which I feel like are like just as important,
22:21
if not sometimes more important than like what
22:22
the architecture is, you know, like what the
22:25
objects say about where we are and who we are.
22:27
Oftentimes there's a budgeting phase back and
22:30
forth with the shops or with whatever theater
22:32
you're working for, unless you're making it yourself.
22:34
And that oftentimes involves revisions to the
22:37
design packet that you're making, revisions to
22:40
the documentation, and then checking in with
22:43
the shops as things are getting built, changes
22:45
are coming up, checking in at rehearsal. I feel
22:47
like being a designer in rehearsal, you get to
22:49
learn a lot about the show and how the space
22:51
is being used, and oftentimes things shift even
22:54
in that period of time. And then you're in tech
22:57
with the set, with all the stuff happening and
22:59
stuff continues to shift and change. And that's
23:01
like a really magical, special time of all of
23:04
the people and things coming together. So they're
23:07
not all like that, but I would say that's like
23:09
sort of the ladder that I'm often like on that
23:12
ladder for different shows. But they're all at
23:14
different points of the ladder, which prevents
23:17
it from being like, you know, overwhelming that
23:20
you're kind of like. I'm at like concept time
23:22
for a show right now, but I'm also in production
23:24
for another show. And yeah, I feel like really
23:28
lucky that. This gets to be my job. But that's
23:30
part of the job, too, is, like, organizing your
23:33
brain between these different projects that are
23:35
all, like, important, you know, and different.
23:37
Just to, like, take a little bit of a context
23:38
step back. So Philadelphia Scenic Works, which
23:40
is the organization that I'm with, is the nation's
23:42
first independent nonprofit scene shop. So what
23:44
that means is that we're a shop that is not for
23:47
profit, right? We're not, like, a commercial
23:48
shop that's looking to make a profit. We were
23:49
started by theater companies. And we work on...
23:53
projects for arts organizations mostly theater
23:54
companies and high schools and we take on a couple
23:57
of the rungs that Sasha just talked about so
23:58
like once once the designs are crafted into paper
24:02
and like drafted we'll take it on the bidding
24:05
process and do that sort of back and forth budgeting
24:06
process build the show fabricate it load it in
24:09
and then that's usually when we step away sometimes
24:11
we'll do notes and things like that in the theater
24:12
before it gets to opening but um that's sort
24:14
of our specific period that we're in the process
24:16
oftentimes because of that we're working on a
24:18
dozen or more shows at once. And so that sort
24:21
of flipping of our brains, thinking about, okay,
24:23
well, this show is being produced right now,
24:25
but this show needs to be quoted out, but this
24:27
show is coming down the pipe. And because, like
24:29
Sasha said, there's a lot of shows that are offered
24:31
in different timelines, we'll get requests that
24:32
are like... ooh, we need this piece for next
24:34
week. Is there any way that you guys can fit
24:36
it in? And we have to say, okay, we can. We have
24:38
overtime, whatever it might be. Versus working
24:40
with a devising company who's working on a project
24:43
years out in advance. They're like, we just need
24:44
a rehearsal piece, or we're trying to develop
24:46
this idea, and maybe it's an idea that we do
24:49
in a year or two. Can you give us a rough quote
24:51
of what you think that would be? And so we're
24:53
also often looking at those different timelines
24:55
to try to figure out how do we make all these
24:57
different shows happen that are happening at
24:58
different phases. Who was the prop? The doofar?
25:03
Doofers, yes. And is that part of the process
25:05
as well? It's like you got a couple doofers to
25:08
like get the things rolling at the beginning
25:09
and then you bring in the final piece. Yeah,
25:12
we don't do that in my scenery because scenery
25:14
is so big and expensive that like the doofers
25:16
are going to cost, I mean like a $5 ,000. I'm
25:19
thinking like steps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we
25:21
do, and that's like one of our goals as a non
25:23
-profit scene shop in addition to like just.
25:24
being a good scene job for companies, is to have
25:27
a supply of resources that we can share amongst
25:29
these companies. Because you think about the
25:30
fantastic companies that are around the city,
25:32
like down the block from where we're recording
25:34
is Interact Theater Company, and they have...
25:36
two amazing spaces, they have almost no storage
25:38
at all. And so, like, they can't, even if there's
25:40
pieces, they have a couple pieces they can save
25:41
there, but if there's pieces that they really,
25:43
like, want to use over and over again, or maybe
25:45
they only want to use them once a year, they
25:46
don't have the capacity to hold on to those things.
25:48
So we can hold on to some of those, and maybe
25:50
we'll use them in the interim for Theater Exile,
25:51
which also has no storage, and then Theater Horizon,
25:53
and then Theater Ariel. And so, like, there's
25:55
a whole bunch of different ways that we can,
25:56
like, collaborate amongst theaters to help use
25:58
different things. And is that part of the process
26:00
as well, of, like... hey, when you're done with
26:01
these, we'll take them back. I mean, sometimes,
26:04
I mean, they have to do something with them.
26:05
And so what often would happen before we existed
26:07
or on shows that we're not involved in is that
26:09
they would literally get a dumpster outside and
26:10
they'd just throw everything away because they
26:12
don't have the room for it. And so there's a
26:13
lot of people in different... parts of the city
26:16
and different industry trying to figure out like
26:17
how can we not do that um so there's this like
26:19
amazing organization called resource exchange
26:21
they're up um on north american kind of like
26:24
fishtown adjacent um kensington adjacent and
26:27
they take a lot of old movie props because movies
26:30
will often buy a whole bunch of set dressing
26:32
and things like that and throw them away at the
26:33
end because they don't have any place to put
26:34
them because a movie just exists as a company
26:36
for that movie, and then once that movie's over,
26:38
it kind of goes away, and so they don't have,
26:40
most of the time, they don't have places for
26:41
all that stuff, so they'll send it to resource
26:42
exchange, and they'll sell it to other people.
26:44
And so that idea of sustainability and resource
26:47
sharing is a huge part of PSW's aesthetic, and
26:50
also part of how we can make things more affordable
26:52
for the companies that we're working with. We've
26:56
talked a little about this, but what goes into
27:01
that design for that touring show operation,
27:04
right? How does that change the concepts that
27:08
you're trying to put together? Because it's not
27:10
just something that you're going to put up and
27:11
then bring down. You've got to put up, bring
27:13
down, put up, bring down, put up, bring down,
27:15
move. Totally, yeah. I feel like I've been lucky
27:19
enough to be a part of just a handful of projects
27:22
that tour. It's because it's hard to work to
27:24
tour with scenery. But those have been with dear,
27:27
dear friends and longtime collaborators and projects
27:30
that felt really close to the chest. It's so
27:33
much manual and emotional labor to tour scenery.
27:37
The one most recent example that I could talk
27:40
briefly about is this show that my dear friends
27:43
created called The Dance for the Hospital Room
27:46
and the Kitchen Table, which is a piece compiling
27:49
together interviews from folks who survived the
27:51
HIV AIDS crisis. And so for that show, we throw
27:55
a bunch of... vintage queer ephemera and like
27:58
tape cassette players and archive boxes. And
28:02
we brought it to New Orleans. We just recently
28:03
did it in Baltimore, moved out in Pittsburgh
28:05
a couple of times. And so, yeah, it's like often
28:07
a combo of like bringing stuff along with, and
28:09
then also like remaking platforms and things
28:12
that you can't really bring on the plane, you
28:15
know, at the space and getting the truck and
28:18
like being very, becoming very familiar with
28:20
the local Home Depot and stuff like that. Yeah,
28:23
so I wouldn't say that's, like, my typical, typical
28:25
process. Those have been, like, special cases,
28:27
and I've, like, learned so much from those projects,
28:30
but it definitely, like, requires a different
28:32
amount of, like, then you're kind of the set
28:33
designer, you're also kind of the TD, you're
28:35
also kind of the PM. Like, everyone's kind of
28:37
managing their own department because it's just,
28:39
like, a really family sort of occasion. And just
28:43
like there are different scales of shows, there
28:45
are also different scales of tours. And so like
28:47
there are some tours that are coming into the
28:48
Fringe Festival that are, you know, they have
28:50
all their stuff they need is in a backpack and
28:52
that's all they need to do their show that can
28:53
make it work. Or maybe they have something that
28:55
kind of pops up and it creates a bigger space.
28:57
When Wicked tours and it comes to the Academy,
28:58
that's a very different structure and things
29:00
like that. And they still have to design that
29:02
to tour. Yeah, it's very different. You're not
29:04
thinking about that. So, like, we went to, I
29:06
took a show with Pig Iron Theater Company to
29:08
Poland, and it was a show they had toured a couple
29:10
times, and they had kind of figured it all out
29:12
to fit everything into suitcases. So every actor
29:14
got their own personal suitcase, and then they
29:16
all said to carry on, like, check the suitcase
29:18
for the show as well, so we could just, you know,
29:20
send it through because the cost of shipping
29:21
that stuff. not on the plane that you're already
29:23
going on is like exorbitant and then we had one
29:26
set piece that they needed to build wherever
29:27
we went and it was just it was just a flat wall
29:29
that kind of went up and down on chain motors
29:31
but they had figured out like these are the very
29:33
specific requirements here the drawings okay
29:34
you have to build this and because we know really
29:36
specifically what it is that you have to build
29:37
that's too impossible for us to take on the plane
29:40
you can you can do that and build it but there's
29:42
kind of a It can be a little bit of like a what's
29:44
the solution going to be in all of these different
29:46
places. I've worked on shows where the set was
29:48
literally like, well, we'll just cut that piece
29:50
for that venue because it doesn't fit. Or we'll
29:52
just cut that piece because we don't have time
29:53
to put it in. Like knowing what's crucial to
29:55
your show and what's important to tell the story
29:57
and versus what is sort of what's a plus or what's
29:59
a, you know, what can you add to it when you
30:02
have the room or the capacity. What have you
30:05
found to be the most challenging? What is the
30:09
most challenging part? I mean, money is like
30:10
the thing that comes to mind, right? Because,
30:11
you know, we work with people. whose job it is
30:14
to be creative and brilliant and think big. And
30:17
so oftentimes there's big ideas. And almost never
30:20
can anyone afford the big idea, the first big
30:22
idea that comes up out of there. But like Sasha
30:24
said, oftentimes the parameters, the logistics
30:27
that kind of box in the show for whatever reason,
30:29
whether that be it needs to, you know, it needs
30:32
to be able to clean the blood off the set for
30:34
what the show is, to there's only so much room,
30:36
or we just did a show in Malcolm X Park with
30:40
Theater and the X, which was an outdoor show,
30:42
where most... that had to come down every night
30:43
because it was outside and they didn't want people
30:45
climbing on it. And so those parameters make
30:48
you think differently. You're like, okay, what
30:49
can I do that gets to this artistic idea but
30:52
also can be lifted by the number of people that
30:54
they have on staff every night into a truck?
30:56
And so those kinds of things sort of force your
30:58
brain to think creatively. And so, I don't know,
31:00
that doesn't really feel like a challenge to
31:01
me. That feels like the name of the game. Ultimately,
31:03
we want to be able to... pay people well for
31:06
the work that they're doing. Not even like exorbitantly,
31:09
like just pay them a living wage for the work
31:10
they're doing, which is so hard in the nonprofit
31:12
and arts world. And we want to be able to really
31:14
like dive into the artistry of these things.
31:18
And so whether it be taking the time to do all
31:20
the like amazing design work that Sasha's talked
31:21
about, or even just like the paint process of
31:24
making. the thing look lived in or aged or part
31:28
of the thing is it's just so satisfying when
31:31
you get the time to like do that and really like
31:33
find the texture and find the detail because
31:35
all of that actually does help tell the story.
31:36
It doesn't just look like a flat thing that you
31:38
got off the, you know, the hardware store. It
31:40
looks like something that has a story in and
31:41
of itself. And so when we can have the time and
31:44
the capacity to do that, that's really the most
31:45
gratifying, I think. I feel like the business
31:48
of freelance comes to mind and it's also like
31:50
such a gift, obviously, like I would not want.
31:53
any other type of job it's like it's really such
31:55
a gift but just being your own boss but also
31:58
kind of having like 12 bosses you know like wanting
32:01
to give your all and like do a really earnest
32:03
like your best work on each project and um just
32:06
like you know like if self -doubt creeps in like
32:09
um just like wanting to be your best artist and
32:11
person and yeah like making sure like all of
32:13
your balls stay in the air comes to mind we've
32:17
heard this a lot with freelancers specifically
32:20
those in the tech world for theater, being your
32:24
own marketer while you're working on what you
32:27
want to work on is, or not a challenge, but something
32:31
maybe you wish you didn't have to do. I know
32:35
I wish I didn't have to market the podcast. It
32:38
feels really self -promotional, but like that.
32:44
Yeah, you have to brag about yourself in a way
32:47
that feels icky, that we're taught not to do.
32:49
And I feel like even It's true for designers.
32:53
It's true for stage managers, which I chose not
32:54
to stage managers. I didn't want to have to do
32:56
that job job thing. But it's also true for the
32:58
technicians, like the people who are like our
33:01
carpenters and our painters. Unless there are
33:03
full time folks, they're also bouncing around
33:05
doing multiple jobs and stuff like that. And
33:06
one of the reasons that I was excited about Philadelphia
33:08
Scenic Works was because it could give people
33:10
a more consistent home. Some people it's full
33:12
time, but some people it's just a place to turn
33:13
to. So some of our like one of our most regular.
33:17
Carpenters is a props master somewhere else,
33:20
and so they do their three or four shows at this
33:22
other place, but in the in -between weeks, they
33:24
have somewhere to come and turn to, and we know
33:25
that they're going to be good, reliable labor,
33:27
and we know that we're... And they know we're
33:28
going to provide good, reliable work. And so
33:30
it creates sort of this, like, stabilizing factor
33:32
for them, which is really helpful. We've had
33:33
some actors who have been carpenters for us for
33:35
a while. And it's very funny that you say that
33:37
because, like, I'm, like, so gratified that we
33:39
can provide this reliability to the people. And
33:41
then I become the marketer as the organization
33:42
leader when I'm like, I have to go out and sell
33:44
PSW and make sure that we have enough work to
33:46
pay the people. And so then I'm like, I don't
33:48
want to market things either. Now I'm becoming
33:51
the freelancer as an organization in that way.
33:53
Yes, yes. Okay, one more thing on the whole bragging
33:57
on oneself thing. I think that this is something
33:59
that you could apply to theater. I have found
34:02
that sometimes we, if we're friends with a visual
34:06
artist who's been on the pod a few times, there's
34:08
one in particular that I go out with and she
34:10
brags on us and I brag on her and then it never
34:14
feels self -promotional. So find your lighting
34:17
person, find your costume person, find your sound
34:20
person and then let them brag on you and then
34:23
in turn. That's all I got. That's all I got.
34:25
It's like your networking wingman. Yes. That's
34:28
right. Yes. Yeah, the inner community, and I'll
34:31
say this as someone also who's, like, pretty
34:33
new to Philly, is, like, just, like, the support
34:36
amidst the designers and, you know, everyone
34:38
is trying to figure out how to just, like, make
34:40
enough money and how to, like, make the art that
34:42
they want to make and the, like, just... overall
34:45
support and like interwovenness of everyone just
34:48
like wanting everyone to be able to support themselves
34:50
and also like do good work is has been really
34:53
inspiring and lovely and caring and Well, on
34:56
that note, if you're listening to this podcast,
34:58
check out Sasha's website because her work is
35:00
brilliant. And she's also a brilliant collaborator
35:03
who's fun to work with. Oh, thanks. Scenic Works
35:06
is awesome. It's a really special spot. And see,
35:09
that doesn't even make me feel awkward because
35:11
I know that as the boss, Sasha works with all
35:13
my staff much more than me. And so that's talking
35:15
about all the great people I work with. Yes.
35:18
More than me. Love that. Love that. What moments
35:21
have you had so far where you got to have that?
35:25
incredible moment in either creating the design
35:27
or helping an organization find that perfect
35:32
piece to bring their vision together. What are
35:36
the glows that you've had in your work so far?
35:40
One of the things that has really become a core
35:42
part of PSW is our work with high schools. There's
35:45
a lot of high schools around the area that just
35:47
don't have the capacity to bring in technical
35:49
people or to have a shop club or however many
35:52
people do it. And so they turned to us and it
35:54
also It can give a lot of these teachers a little
35:57
bit of relief because it's one thing they can
35:58
take off their plate. And, you know, we've had
36:01
teachers tell us, like, I'm so glad I don't have
36:02
to give. 14 -year -old's power tools. You guys
36:05
can come in, build the set, and we know it's
36:08
safe, we know you're taking care of it, and then
36:10
we can work with them to find some things for
36:11
them to do on the set if that's what they want
36:13
to do. We will leave paint projects on there,
36:15
things that are a little more safe that they
36:16
can do and express their creativity and have
36:18
that ownership over the work so it's not just
36:21
a service that we're providing but also a place
36:23
that they can be a part of it. And some places
36:25
are like, you know what, we'll have them do the
36:26
costumes and they'll still have some ownership.
36:27
Take it all off our plate. But there's this amazing,
36:31
and this, again, I'm not even going to take credit
36:33
for this, but just being a part of it is awesome,
36:35
which is Theater Horizon has been doing this
36:37
partnership last year with the Norristown Area
36:40
High School. And I think they're doing it again
36:42
this year where they're producing the school's
36:45
high school musical. in collaboration and sort
36:47
of for the high school itself. So last year they
36:50
did Adam's Family and they brought in like a
36:52
director and a costume person and they brought
36:53
us in to do the set. And so we got to like be
36:55
a part of like helping this high school have
36:57
sort of an experience that they don't normally
36:59
get to have. And it's just really cool to like
37:01
see the kids come in and get excited and be like,
37:03
oh my gosh, look at this set. This is so cool.
37:05
And like have something that's a little bit.
37:07
worthy of their enthusiasm for the arts, right?
37:10
We're kind of getting to be like, yes, you're
37:12
excited in theater, you're excited about making
37:13
work, you're excited about being creative. Let's
37:16
inject that and support that and show you that
37:18
that is something valuable and cool to pursue.
37:20
My answer would also be kid -related, kid -adjacent.
37:25
I've been lucky enough to be a part of the...
37:28
some of the Arden Children's Theater shows the
37:30
past couple years with Becky Wright, who's directing
37:32
Run, Ben, Run with Applied Mechanics, her company.
37:35
But with Becky, I've gotten to do Pinocchio,
37:38
The Hobbit, and A Wrinkle in Time at the Arden,
37:41
which is another really amazing special place
37:43
in town to get to work with amazing staff and
37:46
people. And this was my first real experience
37:49
doing... TYA doing theater for young audiences
37:52
and I remember that first day of like 200 kids
37:55
coming in for the preview and like screaming
37:58
for Pinocchio to like swim away from the whale
38:00
and you know like my design getting to be like
38:03
a like a part of the like all of the different
38:06
creative ways that we told that story which was
38:09
like super prop heavy like super lighting oriented
38:11
was just like so so special and I feel like I,
38:15
like, tend to feel this way on most of my projects,
38:18
but especially early getting to witness children
38:20
witness your work, like, was such a reminder
38:23
of, like, why we do what we do. And yeah, that
38:25
comes to mind as, like, a really gratifying moment
38:28
of, like, oh, like, you see one -to -one the,
38:30
like, impact that your work has on people. What
38:33
I love about those art and kids shows is that
38:35
after each performance, they do a little talkback
38:37
with the cast and the kids can ask anything.
38:39
And so often they are questions about the tech
38:42
of the show because it's like, how did you do
38:43
this effect? Or was that part real or anything
38:45
like that? And they'll actually like bring out
38:47
the puppet and they'll show the puppet to the
38:49
kids or they'll show how an effect worked and
38:51
they'll like break it down. And so it's like,
38:52
it's also like as a, as a tech person, I'm like,
38:55
oh, we get to see, we get to like, like boost
38:57
up tech and boost up design work as well, which
38:59
is really fun. Can you share what is next for
39:02
both of you? I want to shout out the projects
39:04
that we're working on together because they're
39:05
imminent. And I'm super excited about both of
39:09
them, and they're both in Philly. One of them
39:11
is Liberation at Philadelphia Theatre Company,
39:14
which is opening their season. Tavi Magard, the
39:16
artistic director, is directing. And it's an
39:20
amazing majority Philly cast and team. And Liberation
39:24
was recently on Broadway, just won the... Tony
39:27
for best play, maybe fact check me, but I'm like
39:29
99 % sure it is. And the Pulitzer. And it's this
39:34
really special new play by Bess Wohl where she's
39:38
talking about her mother who was in a consciousness
39:40
-raising women's liberation group in the 1970s.
39:44
And the play is just the conversations that these
39:46
women were having in this basement. And it's
39:48
just like, it's really special to get a glimpse
39:51
into what those conversations might have been
39:53
at that really important moment. time and activism
39:56
for women, for queer people, for people of color.
39:59
And I feel like we're doing interesting design
40:01
things with it. I'm really excited to see the
40:03
set come together. And it's also just been really
40:05
special to be a part of that project as someone
40:08
whose life has been impacted by the women who
40:11
were part of that movement. So that's one. And
40:13
then... Very different. We're also, Philly Scenic
40:17
Works is also building the set for Run Ben Run,
40:19
which is a show that Applied Mechanics is putting
40:21
on. And they're an amazing Philly company putting
40:24
together new immersive shows where audiences
40:28
are never just sitting in one place. There's
40:30
like, the show is always happening around them.
40:32
It's my first time getting to work with Applied
40:35
Mechanics specifically, but I've been able to
40:37
work with Becky for a couple of years and she's
40:38
just so awesome. And Run Ben Run is about six
40:41
historical bends. Benjamin Franklin, Benedict
40:45
Arnold, Ben Lay, Ben Affleck, Ben Vereen, and
40:49
Bad Bunny. Yes! Attempting to put together a
40:53
movie about American progress. And it's being
40:56
created and devised by the company and by the
40:59
ensemble. It's an amazing Philly cast. And I
41:01
would say it's about the meaning of art making.
41:04
I would say it's about putting on a show, which
41:06
is cool because obviously that's what we do too.
41:08
And about like... sort of Americana imagery and
41:12
like where it comes from. It's really special
41:14
to get to work on those two things sort of side
41:16
by side with all of these like really stellar
41:18
people. And it's also been really convenient
41:20
and also really nice to get to develop this working
41:23
relationship with. who's building the really
41:27
big exposed theater slash 1970s rec center for
41:31
liberation and also these more modular movable
41:35
pieces for Run, Ben, Run that actually the audiences
41:38
will be sitting in and participating. And I believe
41:41
that both these shows are going to be running
41:43
when this podcast episode comes out, I think.
41:46
So that's exciting. They are. Great. Lovely.
41:50
Thank you so much. Where can our audience find
41:52
you online? My website is sashashwartscenic .com.
41:57
Our website for Philadelphia Scenic Works is
42:00
philadelphiacenicworks .org. You can also find
42:03
us on Instagram, but I don't remember what our
42:05
handle is. And my personal handle is itsnaterj
42:08
on Instagram. I have to follow you. Follow me.
42:11
Follow us. Thank you both, and we'll be right
42:16
back with rapid -fire questions. And we're back
42:24
with rapid -fire questions with Nathan and Sasha.
42:28
Favorite Philadelphia neighborhood? I'm going
42:30
to go Fairmount. It's a hard choice, but I lived
42:33
there for a few years, and it just has a special
42:35
place in my heart. I'm new to West, and it's
42:37
been so welcoming, so I'll say West Philly. Nice.
42:40
Excellent. If you could have seen any theater
42:43
production in its original iteration, what would
42:46
it be? I feel like I want to say, I'm just talking
42:49
out loud, I want to say something early on. I
42:52
don't really love Oklahoma that much, but, like,
42:54
it would be great to see, like, the original
42:56
Oklahoma, like, see people's response to it.
42:58
Something that's early that we don't really have
43:00
recordings of, like, is what I'm thinking, yeah.
43:04
This is, like, throwing it way back, but it would
43:06
be cool to see, like, a medieval pageant wagon.
43:09
Oh, nice. Because I feel like their, like, scenic
43:11
solutions were, like, really special. And traveling.
43:16
Yes, of course. Yeah, where some of those old
43:18
operas where they, like, are doing, there's a
43:20
lot of, like, scenic technology to make the curtains
43:22
flying and out. It's all based on, like, ship
43:24
building and ship sailor art. Like, what's the
43:27
word I'm looking for? Like, rope tying and knots
43:29
and stuff like that. Like, it's all based on
43:31
that sort of, like, technology. And so, like,
43:34
some of these old. systems that they had to make
43:37
the scenery move around and turn around and traps
43:39
and fly, like all of that. I mean, that's just
43:41
me. I want to be backstage. I don't want to see
43:42
the show. I want to see how it's all working,
43:44
you know, two to 300 years ago. That's perfect.
43:46
Thank you both so much for spending your time
43:49
with us today and sharing your stories and your
43:51
journeys. Everyone, please check out Philadelphia
43:55
Scenic Works with Nathan and Sasha's Productions.
44:00
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. fun.
44:15
I especially liked the espresso martini surprise
44:18
that we were able to crack open mid -recording.
44:22
It really took the edge off. Long day. Long day.
44:26
What a perfect way to end a Sunday. Speaking
44:29
of things that are happening on the weekend,
44:32
Run Ben Run runs from October 6th to the 18th
44:36
at Christ Church Neighborhood House. And we will
44:40
be at the October 9th show. Philadelphia Ballet's
44:44
production of Stars and Stripes Forever runs
44:47
from October 8th to the 11th at the Academy of
44:50
Music. Which one are you going to, Robert? Thursday
44:53
or Saturday? Possibly Thursday. You know I love
44:56
a grand opening. And you? Saturday evening, and
45:00
I'm bringing my Travel Ensemble Arts Cup with
45:02
me. Art is Everywhere, a panel moderated by our
45:05
very own Robert Thomas Marsh, is this Sunday,
45:09
October 11th at Muse Gallery. It is not too late
45:12
to RSVP. This weekend is the West of Broad, half
45:17
of the Philadelphia Open Studio Tours. And with
45:20
that, Philly has heart. And art! And Philly has
45:59
heart. Don't forget to follow, share, and spread
46:02
the love.