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When the Stakes Are Life or Death · Speak In Flow

• 0:03
  Melinda Lee: Welcome, dear listeners, to the Speak and Flow podcast, where we dive into unique stories to help you and your team achieve maximum potential and flow, even when the stakes are high.
• 0:15
  Melinda Lee: Today, I have an amazing leader. He's a VP of Disease, Biology, and Translational Sciences at the biotech company Subterna. His name is Amir Mirza. Hi, Amir.
• 0:31
  AmerMirza: Hi, Melinda, thanks so much for having me.
• 0:33
  Melinda Lee: I am so glad you're here. We're going to dive into, really, a true discussion about
• 0:39
  Melinda Lee: navigating high-stakes moments, especially with your team. How do we do that? But before we get into that, like, can you share with us what is exciting at Subterna?
• 0:49
  AmerMirza: Yeah, Subterna's a very exciting company. It's a company that's actually focused on a very large class of drugs, which are GPCR coupled receptors. And, you know, it's the largest targeted class in all of biology. And Subterna really has developed a platform that actually allows targeting of select GPCRs.
• 1:14
  AmerMirza: You know, I started at Subterna when it was around 9 people. We're now over 100 people and continuing to grow. We've had a very, sort of.
• 1:25
  AmerMirza: rapid growth phase, you know, in terms of, how we've grown as an organization, both in terms of our capabilities, but also, developing our teams. And, you know.
• 1:37
  AmerMirza: The highlight was, for me at least,
• 1:40
  AmerMirza: When we took the company public last time, but this… last time, sorry, last year this time.
• 1:47
  Melinda Lee: Congratulations! That is a huge accomplishment, and I bet a lot of people from the outside sees the wins, the amazing growth.
• 1:58
  Melinda Lee: And I'm sure interwoven amongst the growth, there were times where it was not so smooth, lots of challenging moments, and because we're focused today on helping leaders navigate those challenging, complex moments with their team, can you share with us also the moments that were difficult?
• 2:20
  AmerMirza: Absolutely. You know, drug development is a high-stakes endeavor. There are a lot of things that are involved, both from a science sense, but also from a business sense. But then growing that as an organization that actually continuously executes and continuously delivers results under very, very tight time pressures.
• 2:42
  AmerMirza: Those are all things that are necessary and needed, and if you layer on top of that, scaling and growing the organization from 9 people, to when I started to over 100 now, and continuously executing is very fundamental, and it's very, very important. So yeah, there are many, many times that, you know, we were actually at inflection points, where the teams needed to
• 3:07
  AmerMirza: come together and deliver. And I think this is where, you know, strong leadership and strong, sort of, ability to sort of, create clear vision and clear purpose, is very, very important.
• 3:20
  AmerMirza: Building sort of, you know, high-functioning teams, I think, is very, very critical. It takes a lot of planning, it takes consistent effort.
• 3:29
  AmerMirza: and consistent application of, you know, energy. But it also requires, you know, a core focus on human dynamics as well. And, you know, because teams are just that. They're not individuals, they're actually teams.
• 3:43
  AmerMirza: And every individual that's coming in brings their own purpose, their own identity. I think as human beings, we're all wired to make an impact, and we want to make an impact, especially in biotech.
• 3:55
  AmerMirza: You know, we're in it for the patients, you know, we're there to bring valuable medicines to people who in need, and I think that's really, really critical. You know, so creating those moments of clarity for teams to actually make that clear progress, I think, is fundamental.
• 4:13
  Melinda Lee: What do you think are some of the most challenges, like, 3 challenges that your team experiences in those inflection points?
• 4:21
  AmerMirza: Yeah, so I would say, and I can give myself as an example, as a project team lead for one of our programs, you know, from a drug development perspective, you know, a lot of the science has to come together. I mean, fundamentally, it comes from core science and core delivery of, you know, key data, that can actually help us meet those inflection points.
• 4:43
  AmerMirza: But I think for the company and for the teams, from a non-science perspective, I think it's coming together as an organization, and as a team to actually
• 4:54
  AmerMirza: you know, for example, for us, it was nomination of a, you know, a drug candidate, right? So, something that the company identifies as good enough to actually move forward and put into human beings, right?
• 5:10
  AmerMirza: Yeah, and another, you know, point is when we actually, once we've made that decision, it undergoes, you know, a lot of testing to evaluate whether it's safe enough to go into humans, and then really, going into that first clinical trial, I think, are… those are two things that I would identify as sort of
• 5:29
  AmerMirza: You know, key milestones.
• 5:31
  Melinda Lee: And do you think it's, was it the communication? Like, how do you go from all of that, like, complexity of all that data
• 5:39
  Melinda Lee: to making a decision, to then, you know, clinical trials. You've done that multiple times, like.
• 5:45
  AmerMirza: Right.
• 5:46
  Melinda Lee: How do you do that, in terms of…
• 5:49
  Melinda Lee: communication. Are there, like, key things that you could help share with us to turn.
• 5:54
  AmerMirza: Cool.
• 5:55
  Melinda Lee: data science into an actual product that you could.
• 5:59
  AmerMirza: Right, and I think, really, there are four elements, and I can go through those, but I think for the first part, I think it's really creating that common vision, right? Everybody on the team has to have that common purpose and that common vision. Everybody needs to understand why they're doing what they're doing.
• 6:16
  AmerMirza: Right? And for the, you know, for the team that I was involved in, it was really understanding the patient need and why we were doing it, how that drug is going to make an impact for those patients and those individuals. And also, you know, how is our drug actually different from others that are already, you know, trying to do some of these things, right? Or do we actually have a space, right? So that's one.
• 6:39
  AmerMirza: The second would be to actually create, what I would say SMART goals, right? And really smart goals and key milestones, for the team, and really to be really specific about the measurables and the achievements that we actually have.
• 6:52
  AmerMirza: And to make sure that they're actually relevant, right? And obviously, we're doing this within a sort of high-pressure, you know, fast-moving business environment, so we need to actually be, you know, very conscious of our time, and especially for a small biotech, we have runway, we have cash.
• 7:08
  AmerMirza: That we have for a period of time, so we need to be mindful of that.
• 7:12
  AmerMirza: And really coming down to, you know, clarity of roles and responsibilities, right? Especially on teams where, you have a lot of individuals, you're going to have a lot of opinions, right? Everyone is trying to make that impact, everyone is trying to actually
• 7:28
  AmerMirza: add value to the organization, but also clarifying roles and responsibilities, so you don't have overlap, right? So people aren't sort of stepping on each other's toes.
• 7:37
  AmerMirza: But to be doing that and having that dialogue in a sort of mindful and respectful way, which fosters accountability and responsibility, I think is actually key. And… but also having, a ability to accurately measure progress for the team, right? Are we doing the things we need to do, based on the current state of affairs? You know, what are our strengths? What are we doing really, really well?
• 8:00
  AmerMirza: What are we doing, that could be actually done better? And really having that honest dialogue, and then, you know, for teams, it's actually creating that safe space to be able to do all of that.
• 8:11
  Melinda Lee: Mmm, right. So can you share with us some of the things that you've done to create that safe space, and then also some things that you, have done to track the results?
• 8:21
  AmerMirza: Yeah, so one of the key things is that, you know, not every conversation can or should be a high-stakes conversation, right? People need to understand and appreciate the fact that they can actually come into a team meeting.
• 8:35
  AmerMirza: have discussions, have dialogue. It's okay to actually, you know, put crazy ideas out there, and crazy thinking, and to really be able to pressure test that. So, for a project team lead as I was, or even as a functional head as I was, it's really within my teams to actually sort of cultivate that positive environment of trust and safety.
• 8:55
  AmerMirza: Right? Another thing is to really, you know, promote sort of that open communication, right? That free flow of information. Who knows where the next idea is going to come from? Who knows where, you know, somebody might just think, well, this is crazy, you know, maybe I just don't know enough, or maybe I just don't, right? And so they're afraid of asking that crazy question, right? But asking the question can actually unearth a gap.
• 9:19
  AmerMirza: our thinking.
• 9:20
  AmerMirza: Right? And, you know, just because somebody, you know, assumes it's, oh, somebody probably further up has already thought about that, that may not necessarily be the case. And so you actually have to promote that openness of communication.
• 9:34
  AmerMirza: And I think ultimately also is, you know, cultivating empathy, right? I think everyone has that desire to make an impact. We also need to feel for each other as individuals and as team members, right? When we're actually talking to each other.
• 9:50
  AmerMirza: You know, that person, you know, may have been reluctant, or they may have been intimidated in that larger public setting, to say some of those things, right? To be mindful of.
• 9:59
  AmerMirza: you know, that they're putting themselves out there, right? They're putting their own, sort of, you know, egos at risk by suggesting something. And for us to take that with empathy and kindness, and to take it for what it is, is a person's desire to actually make an impact.
• 10:14
  AmerMirza: And so, effectively, you know.
• 10:16
  AmerMirza: But to your other point, it's really, you know, to making sure that we're actually having and progressing and making those contributions, is to really have mechanisms for potentially resolving conflict. And I don't mean conflict as in…
• 10:30
  AmerMirza: you know, pugilistic sort of conflicts, but I mean sort of, you know, people can have a difference of opinion in terms of what is the best path forward.
• 10:40
  AmerMirza: And creating a process and having that strategy for how do we actually now decide to make decisions, right? Because I think, especially in a fast-moving, fast-paced environment, the teams cannot afford to be bogged down.
• 10:56
  AmerMirza: Right? We can't have, you know, 2, 3, 5 meetings on the same topic, because we can't find a way of overcoming
• 11:04
  AmerMirza: the roadblocks that we actually have. So, creating, and that's what I do as a leader, is creating sort of those, that strategy for conflict resolution, strategy for moving through and making decisions. And no decision is perfect, right? But I think that's also something that's very important, is as a team, to have clear purpose and resolution, and to be transparent why we're going with one solution.
• 11:29
  AmerMirza: Versus another solution, and have the entirety of the team sort of buy into that.
• 11:33
  Melinda Lee: Right, so you're saying, like, to have, like, these strategies or protocols before the meeting starts, like, how to have…
• 11:40
  Melinda Lee: the conflict, and how to have… how to make decisions. Like, how are we going to make a decision? And maybe the way that we go about making a decision could be different based on the project or based on the initiative, too. It can change.
• 11:54
  AmerMirza: No, absolutely, and I think that's, you know, that's a very important point as well, right? Is empowering the team.
• 12:00
  Melinda Lee: Right? Right. You know, these are very smart, very talented individuals, right, who've spent, you know, a number of years, you know, coming to the height of their science and the height of the things that they're doing.
• 12:12
  AmerMirza: You know, and they want to make an impact, really, and having the team empowered to think through the challenges and come to resolution, I think is really, really important. And, you know, one of the things that
• 12:26
  AmerMirza: I like to do as a leader is really also delegate that responsibility and authority to either my direct reports or to other elements of the team who are potentially, you know, in a better position and closer to the data to actually see
• 12:42
  AmerMirza: what some of the challenges are, right? And really have a process for that decision-making, that building in the confidence
• 12:49
  AmerMirza: That, you know, how we're doing this is working and is clear for us, right?
• 12:54
  Melinda Lee: Right, right. Then they feel empowered, and they've had the ownership.
• 12:58
  AmerMirza: Absolutely, and it's also, you know, for more junior scientists, you know, it's also an investment, right? As we as, you know, the older generation, if you will, you know, have a responsibility to nurture and foster the growth of those individuals that are under us.
• 13:14
  AmerMirza: Really having that continuous investment and that continuous learning and development opportunity for them. And sure, you know, they may not make the right decisions all the time, but to…
• 13:25
  AmerMirza: do that in a safe space and give them a safety net as well, right? Obviously.
• 13:29
  AmerMirza: You know, you're not gonna hand the keys to… of the Ferrari to the teenager who's gonna be responsible with it. But I think it's really to give them the confidence, right, to actually rise to the challenge, and I think
• 13:43
  AmerMirza: I, as a leader, have found that, you know, once you give that opportunity, once you give clear definition of goals and responsibilities, people do rise to that challenge. Love it.
• 13:55
  AmerMirza: Yeah, it's important.
• 13:56
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I love that, I love that. I know, it's so great to see people rise to the challenge, and people can do so much when they feel empowered, and when they have a good leader to support them, to listen to them, and be there when they need it.
• 14:11
  AmerMirza: So I'm curious, you have so much experience with project, leading projects, and.
• 14:16
  Melinda Lee: cross-functional teams. What is that one moment that you had to deliver a really, you know, difficult piece of information to the teams, whether it might be restructuring or a layoff? Have you ever had to do that? And how did you go about that?
• 14:33
  AmerMirza: Yeah, not at Subchurna, but at previous organizations, you know, in my history of another company called Zoma, we had, several reorgs and restructuring.
• 14:44
  AmerMirza: That it had to happen, and those are very challenging things. As a leader, some of, you know, especially back then as a younger leader, you know, those were very, very difficult things for me.
• 14:55
  AmerMirza: And I think it's, one of the things that one appreciates and understands is that, these are never easy decisions, and these are never easy things, to do. But I think it's also recognizing that,
• 15:10
  AmerMirza: you know, sometimes you need to do this, for the organization. And, you know, what I've read and what I've often, heard other people say to me, you know, people in culture, especially, or folks in the HR, you know, oftentimes, the…
• 15:26
  AmerMirza: You know, there's a little bit of survivor syndrome that actually happens within those organizations, but then, you know, as those individuals who sort of move out, they often find it easier, because they actually have closure, right?
• 15:39
  AmerMirza: Whereas the folks that are left internally are now sort of scrambling to sort of, you know, connect all the dots with a smaller team or, you know, limited resources. So those are… those are inherent challenges in themselves, yeah.
• 15:52
  Melinda Lee: So seeing it as information that is not easy, or a decision that was not easy to be made, but then also delivering that information, probably knowing that maybe even the people that leave might be better off than the people that are internally, so we don't have to feel so guilty for having to let them go, or doing the.
• 16:12
  AmerMirza: Absolutely, and I think one of the, one of the key things to also remember on this is that, you know, as a leader, you know.
• 16:21
  AmerMirza: it's important for us to foster that continuous growth and continuous development. Yeah. And what we also need to appreciate and understand is that growth and development may actually not be in-house.
• 16:31
  AmerMirza: Right? That growth and development for, you know, someone to actually, you know, fully spread their wings and fully, you know, become sufficient in what they need and really get to that next level. It may actually require being outside of the current structures that are inherent within the organization.
• 16:49
  Melinda Lee: I love it, I love it. So if you look… were to look back at your entire profession, what is that, leadership…
• 16:57
  Melinda Lee: trade or leadership characteristics that you hold to you? Like, what is your mantra?
• 17:04
  Melinda Lee: For yourself, that has gotten…
• 17:05
  AmerMirza: That's my mantra. Yeah. Yeah, so my mantra is, you know, recognizing individuals for who they are, right? It's actually understanding that there are multiple personality phenotypes. Everybody's different, everybody has a different sort of, you know, core values that they… that resonate with them.
• 17:24
  AmerMirza: You know.
• 17:25
  AmerMirza: a simplified version of Myers-Briggs will kind of tell you that, you know, there are no two individuals, right? You can, you know, break personality phenotypes down, and the drivers for each of those individuals are going to be different, right? It's even coming into… back into team environments, right? You know.
• 17:44
  AmerMirza: Finance may actually have a different set of drivers than, you know, early-stage research, then has a different set of drivers than clinical, right? And to really understand and respect each of those drivers, and to really come up with a message that speaks to each of their concerns, and each of their values, I think is really important.
• 18:04
  Melinda Lee: Are you talking about the message with regard to the project, or what do you mean? Or just, like, asking them what it is? What do you mean by speak to the message so that…
• 18:12
  AmerMirza: So, so really, it's, it's coming back to, for example, be it, in a, you know.
• 18:20
  AmerMirza: representing some of the science outside the company, right? Or even, you know, when we're actually trying to make decisions on a particular train, right? And so what are the value drivers, right? What are the things that each of those functions, or can actually be an individual, you know, what do they really, really care about, right? What is core and important to them? What are they worried about, right? Right. And really having,
• 18:44
  AmerMirza: you know, as a project team lead, or as a functional lead, you may not be able to speak to all of it, right? But it's really to channel, those concerns through each of those individuals, or each of those functions, right? For them to be able to bring some of that forward, I think is really, really important.
• 19:01
  Melinda Lee: Well, I think what… do I hear this right? So, having it be very clear, what are the values, the values that drive, whether it's the project, the function, the person, because I see sometimes what often happens, people get caught up in the weeds.
• 19:18
  AmerMirza: Yes.
• 19:19
  Melinda Lee: And then they start to bicker about every little detail, and then they probably have forgotten what is the real, true outcome that we're trying to achieve here. What is the value that we want to demonstrate? What is the value that we… the outcome and the value that we don't want to lose sight of?
• 19:34
  AmerMirza: Absolutely, and I think this is where I was coming back to, you know, one of the things I said earlier is actually clearly having that vision and purpose, right? You know, understanding from each individual the why, right? And coalescing as a group around that why.
• 19:49
  AmerMirza: And why, you know… and so, you know, once you have that sort of North Star, right, and everyone's agreed to that, and everyone's kind of agreed to, you know, the strategy around how we're going to do some of these things, then everything can be measured up against it. Okay, so if, you know, if finance, you know, for example, does not want to fund something, right?
• 20:08
  AmerMirza: How does that…
• 20:09
  AmerMirza: change the reflection on that North Star, right? How does that impact what we're going to do? Does it change it at all? Does it, you know, does it radically shift it? And all of a sudden, if finance decides that, oh, okay, if we, you know, pull half of the funding, we're only going to be able to go a third of the way to where we want to go, and that is actually contrary to where we want to be at the end of the year, right? Then maybe we can't do that. We need to fund it more.
• 20:34
  AmerMirza: hopefully, right?
• 20:35
  AmerMirza: Yeah. So that's one example, yeah.
• 20:38
  Melinda Lee: I love that, I love that.
• 20:40
  Melinda Lee: Right, and it makes it, easier for decision making.
• 20:44
  AmerMirza: Absolutely. And I think, you know, one of the things that, because I sort of sit at that interface between research and development, you know, a lot of our scientists are incredibly smart, incredibly talented.
• 20:56
  AmerMirza: are in the weeds, because they have to be, right? They, more than anybody else, need to know the nuance of how things are moving and how things…
• 21:04
  AmerMirza: are progressing. But I can tell you.
• 21:07
  AmerMirza: you know, once a product kind of makes it, you know, towards the clinic or into the clinic, the clinicians are more worried about, is this going to work on my patients, right? I don't, you know, they'll be less concerned about, does it, you know, tweak this protein this way versus that way versus, you know, some other way. They want to know fundamentally, is it going to change the disease state in my patients?
• 21:30
  AmerMirza: And isn't going to improve their lives.
• 21:32
  Melinda Lee: Right, right, right.
• 21:34
  Melinda Lee: Yep.
• 21:36
  Melinda Lee: Oh, I love what you are all doing. It's fascinating, and it's exciting. And how is… is there an AI influence?
• 21:45
  AmerMirza: That's a great question. So this is, so I can speak to, and again, not superna, but another aspect of my previous life, you know, when I was at Gilead. So Gilead is a much different organization. It's a much larger company. When I was there, it was about 10,000 people.
• 22:01
  AmerMirza: And, you know, and this is actually in… you know, there's been an incredible ramp up in AI currently. We were actually doing a lot of the pioneering work. You know, we had collaborations with Verily at the time,
• 22:14
  AmerMirza: who's an alphabet company, to really map out machine learning and machine learning algorithms, leveraging Gilead's clinical, data. And I think,
• 22:25
  AmerMirza: honestly, a lot of that has to be revisited. In the new, you know, as AI takes office, you know, there are going to be a lot of things we're going to be able to do much, much, much, much better. And one of the core things that I love as a scientist, and what gets me up every morning, is really that understanding of
• 22:45
  AmerMirza: clinical disease pathobiology, right? How do, you know, how does clinical disease manifest as cellular and molecular changes, and genetic changes? And how does all of that come together to create a sort of fingerprint of disease pathology for each individual?
• 23:04
  AmerMirza: Right? And really understanding that and how there's oftentimes an overlap between disease, I think can really be improved by AI. I think leveraging AI to mindfully and thoughtfully address some of those challenges, I think is going to be hugely impactful. I'm really excited about that.
• 23:23
  Melinda Lee: Wow, wow, it's gonna be so exciting. It is really exciting, like you said, but I really enjoy that you included it in a mindful, intentional way of use
• 23:33
  Melinda Lee: To, to help progress, the findings.
• 23:38
  AmerMirza: Yeah.
• 23:39
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 23:40
  Melinda Lee: And so what about… so I've learned so much, and I think that the key here is that we have a shared vision. I think with this… with complexity.
• 23:50
  Melinda Lee: With, science and or any information that you have that can also often sometimes be overwhelming and difficult to make decisions on, for the whole team, in order to navigate some of these complexities, having that shared vision
• 24:04
  Melinda Lee: and purpose together as a team. And then from there, also understanding each person. Like you mentioned, what are their primary drivers? What is important to that person? And what are their roles? What is the role, the key role that they have to moving it forward?
• 24:21
  AmerMirza: Yeah, no, absolutely, and I think one of the additional things that I would add in there, right, is that, you know, once you actually have built that sort of high-powered, high-functioning team, it can actually be a very stressful pressure cooker environment, right? So, it's important to realize that, you know, people are people, right? And is to, you know, take those moments to, you know, celebrate success, right? And celebrate even small wins, as well as the big ones.
• 24:45
  Melinda Lee: Right?
• 24:46
  AmerMirza: But then also, you know, to have the empathy and, you know, when things don't go as well as they could have, right, is to really come together as a team and sort of, you know, regroup and remeasure and reassess performance and start again. And I think…
• 25:02
  AmerMirza: You know, drug development is a very tricky business. It's a very hard thing to do. It's not easy. Biology is very, very difficult.
• 25:10
  AmerMirza: And, you know, I'll use a quote that I first learned in graduate school from my great graduate advisor. You know, he said that, you know, biology is not rocket science, right? And, you know, when Kennedy declared that we were going to go to the moon, we did it in 10 years. We solved it, right?
• 25:30
  AmerMirza: What a lot of people don't know is Nixon declared a war on cancer very shortly after that.
• 25:35
  Melinda Lee: And, you know, we are still in the midst of it, right? We still have not… we've…
• 25:40
  AmerMirza: had tremendous gains in terms of how we treat and how we address cancer. You know, it's no longer a death sentence for many people, but we still haven't solved it. And, you know, so the take-home there was that, yeah, it's not rocket science, it's actually much more difficult than rocket science.
• 25:55
  Melinda Lee: Wow. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm glad that you… we have amazing leaders like you at the forefront of driving this change and innovation.
• 26:06
  Melinda Lee: With a heart, with people, to bringing people together throughout this.
• 26:10
  Melinda Lee: And so what is that one leadership golden takeaway that you'd want people to remember?
• 26:16
  AmerMirza: Yeah, I think it's really coming back to, you know, the leadership takeaways is know your team, right? Know what drives them, know what motivates them, right? It's your job as a leader to be a facilitator of their aspirations in some ways, right? And, you know, if they can see themselves reflected in the goals and what we're trying to achieve.
• 26:36
  AmerMirza: they will go to the moon and back for you, right? It's going to be really… and, you know, and they're going to be vested in the product that we're all delivering, right?
• 26:46
  AmerMirza: And to keep it in mind that, you know, we are doing this for a reason that's broader than us. We're doing it for the patients, right? And to bring meaningful therapies to them is very, very fundamentally important for us.
• 26:59
  Melinda Lee: drop the mic. That's why they go to the extra mile, and that's how you're able to help Sterna take it from 9 to over 100 employees. Congratulations on your work, and congratulations to Septerna.
• 27:12
  AmerMirza: Thank you very much for having me, Melinda, and thank you for allowing me to share some of these thoughts.
• 27:17
  Melinda Lee: Oh my goodness, thank you so much for your time.
• 27:21
  Melinda Lee: And thank you, audience, for being here. I trust that you're getting your leadership golden takeaway. Implement it right away, and remember, anytime you have a chance to communicate, you are also connecting, and have an opportunity to make a positive difference in others' lives.
• 27:38
  Melinda Lee: Until next time, I'm your sister in flow.
• 27:41
  Melinda Lee: Bye-bye.
• 27:42
  Melinda Lee: Bye, Amir.
• 27:43
  AmerMirza: Bye. Thank you.