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Transcript

Mega Edition: The Investigation In Idaho And The Sleuth's Who Got In The Way (8/28/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Chief
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Fry in Moscow is lashing out and complaining about online
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: sleuths and saying that it's making his police officer's job
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: that much more difficult. Now, that runs kind of counter
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: to what he's been saying or what he did say
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: recently and how they have continued to ask the public
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: for help. So do you want the public's help or not?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Because coming out and attacking people for sending you tips
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: is a bit ridiculous. Now, with that said, if you're
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: sitting around in a place like Ohio or someplace that's
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: not Moscow, and you're sending in all of these tips,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: you should probably take it easy. They have a lot
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: of work to do and a lot of ground to cover.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: So all of those nonsensical tips that are getting sent
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: in from other locations that have no bearing to the case.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Of course, that's a pain.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: But let's not act like him and his detectives are
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: sifting through all of these tips. They're going to the
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: FBI line now. So the FBI is going through them.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: What it seems to me here, and I hate to
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: say it, but it seems to me as if the
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: chief is looking to place blame. So it's the online
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: sleuths problem and their fault that you haven't had a
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: suspect brought in yet or that there hasn't been any movement,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: at least publicly in your case. Because that's what it
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: looks like here. Now, don't get me wrong. There's certainly
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: some blame for people who try to insert themselves in
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: these cases. It's a bad look. It's stupid and it's
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: pointless and it just gets in the way. But for
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the police to try and use that as some kind
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: of excuse why they're not making any ground here, that's.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: A bit ridiculous as well.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: So let's get into this article and let's see exactly
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: what the Moscow Police Department is saying. Headline, Idaho police
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: blame online Reddit sleuths for creating huge distraction from college
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: murder case. Just Reddit, not Facebook, not TikTok, just Reddit.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Because from what I've seen, and when I've been bouncing
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: around just taking a look at some of these forums,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: it seems to me anyway that Reddit overall is the
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: least unhinged of all of them. Forget Facebook. That's an
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: absolute swamp of crazy people.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: And TikTok.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I don't use TikTok, so I have no idea. But
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: from what I've heard, it's an absolute shit show of
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: psychics and weirdos talking about the case over there. But
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: on Reddit, you know, don't get me wrong. There are
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: some wild speculations and theories that I've seen on there.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: But for the police to come out and mention Reddit
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: and not those other platforms is a bit weird. Considering
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: those other platforms are going absolutely bonkers. Oh, did I
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: mention 4chan yet? This article was authored by Rachel Sharp.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Investigators trying to track down the killer of four University
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of Idaho students have blamed internet sleuths for creating a
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: huge distraction from the murder case. Claiming the rampant online
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: rumors make it hard for law enforcement to stay on track.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: How's that even possible? How is it that rumors are
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: keeping you from staying on track? That seems like more
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: of a systemic problem with the investigation. If some online
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: rumors are enough to knock you off track, then what
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: is it that you have to go on that you've
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: compiled yourself?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: What sort of evidence?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Because if you had evidence and you were working on something,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: then why would online rumors bother you in the least?
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: In a video update posted on Monday, Moscow Police Captain
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Roger Lanier hit out at social media propagation surrounding the
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: brutal stabbings of Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin in the small college town of Moscow, Idaho.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Tracking down rumors and quelling rumors about specific information and
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: specific events that may not have happened is a huge distraction,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: he said. Yeah, I can't agree with that, honestly. Rumors
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: on the internet should never, ever impede a police investigation.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: The police should stay in their lane. They should follow
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the evidence. They should follow whatever leads they have. And
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: who cares what a bunch of people on Reddit are saying?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: How could that impede your investigation? I find that to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: be very worrisome, folks. The fact that this man is
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: out here talking about some online speculation and rumor being
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: an impediment for him and his investigators, that doesn't inspire
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: too much confidence. Never once did I hear one single
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: person investigating Ghislaine Maxwell come out and complain about online
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: speculation or rumor. For as much shit as I gave
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: those prosecutors, they did their job. They put their nose
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: to the concrete and they grinded it out. You want
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: to talk about rumor and speculation? Mr. Fry, type in
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. It is very, very frustrating for investigators. It
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: makes it hard to stay on track. Well, if you
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: had solid leads of your own, then that wouldn't be
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the case, right? Because you'd be following those leads until exhaustion.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: But instead, you're talking about internet rumor again. Captain Lanier
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: urged the public, please stick to the official news releases. Well,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: that's why I post those official statements so that we
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: have a basis for what we're working on here. I mean,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: what are they doing here? Are they trying to set
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: up a scapegoat? for somebody to blame if their investigation
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: goes off the rails?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, it was the.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Online sleuths that led to us not finding the killer,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: because I don't think that's going to have very much
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: traction with the public if they try that one. The
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: finger pointing from law enforcement comes as the unsolved murder
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: case has been at the center of a huge obsession
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: on Reddit and other online channels. Four weeks have now
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: passed since the four students were found butchered in their beds,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and police appear to be no closer to catching the killer.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: But they have time to talk about online sleuths, huh?
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: With investigators remaining tight-lipped about the details of the murders,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: including who may have been the main target of the attack,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: and with no suspect in custody, speculation, rumors, and conspiracy
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: theories have ramped up online. Officials have resorted to debunking
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: several online rumors, including one false claim that the four
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: victims were bound and gagged during the brutal attack. Now,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: that's something they keep pointing to, like it's been this
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: prevalent theory, but I haven't seen that in very many places.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: In fact, I never seen that at all until they
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: pointed it out in some of these articles.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Police have also ruled out a possible.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Connection between the case and a series of other incidents,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: including a 2021 stabbing in Oregon, the February overdose death
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: of another student in Moscow, and an alcohol incident on
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: the night of the murders. Now, of course, there are
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: people online that are absolutely ridiculous, and they think every
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: single thing that has happened in the city of Moscow
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: is connected to this. But what are you going to
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: do as an investigator? Are you going to say, look,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: don't send us tips anymore. It's all ridiculous. Or are
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: you going to do your job as an investigator and
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: just sift through the tips? Put the crap ones in
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: the crap pile and the good ones in the good pile.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And remember, it's the FBI that's doing that right now
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: at the call center. Speculation is now growing around a
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: mystery item found at the crime scene in the days
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: after the murders. Retired homicide detective and podcaster Chris McDonough
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Claim that he found a single black glove outside the
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: house on King Road on the 28th of November and
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: that after pointing it out to law enforcement, it appeared
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that police were not aware of it before then.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Well, Mr. McDonough, you did it. You cracked the case.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, do we really think that this glove has
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: something to do with what happened here?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe it did.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I can't rule it out completely, but boy, that would
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: be one hell of a miss if the investigators miss
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: this glove and this podcaster shows up all of a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: sudden and just happens to find it. In a video
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: posted on his YouTube channel, Mr. McDonough showed the glove
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: nestled among leaves in the snow outside the student rental home.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I actually found a glove and turned it I pointed
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: it out to the officers who was there securing the scene,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: and they came and they collected it, he said. So
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: that means they missed it?
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: If what Mr.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: McDonough is saying, they missed that glove sitting in the snow? Yeah,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: that really inspires a lot of confidence in your investigation, Mr.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Lanier. The officer was there.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Obviously, they didn't know about it because he came over
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: and photographed it and he talked to the evidence. They
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: had evidence texts and immediately, you know, later they came
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: out and got it. The discovery has raised questions around
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: whether the glove may have been there on November 13th,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the night of the killings, and who it may belong to.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Is this from the night? Is it random, i.e. somebody
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: missed the trash can and they're walking by? Is the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: suspect taunting the authorities by, you know, Placing something like this, hypothetically,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: ask Mr.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: McDonough.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: So you want to talk about sleuths that are out
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: here talking about theories and whatnot? What about all of
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: these retired police officers and ex-FBI agents that are offering
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: up their opinions, that are offering up what they think happened?
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Is that not hampering your investigation, Mr. Lanier? Or is
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: it just the online sleuths? Because it would seem to
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: me that all of these ex-police officials, FBI officials, profilers,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: they all have some pretty heavy opinions about the investigation
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: as well. You notice that Lanier only hit out at
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the sleuths, though. He didn't go after the exes. officials
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: that are giving these interviews to the media because that's
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: how the sleuths get their information right they see these
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: articles and they repost them authorities are still looking to
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: speak to the driver of a mystery white car spotted
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: near the crime scene at the time of the murders
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Moscow police announced last Wednesday that they were looking to
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: speak to the occupants or occupant of a white 2011
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: through 2013 Hyundai Elantra, which was seen near the King
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Road home in the early hours of the 13th of November. Now, again,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: if it's somebody in their circle, somebody who's local in Moscow,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: somebody who is known to the authorities, somebody that they
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: might have on the radar, wouldn't they know that they
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: had a white Hyundai Elantra? But instead, they're looking for
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: A random Hyundai Elantra with no plates and they don't
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: even know the exact year of it. So that leads
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: me to believe and leads me to speculate that they
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: truly don't have anything solid here. Investigators believe the occupants
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: of this vehicle may have critical information to share regarding
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: this case, police said in a statement. Police are urging
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the public to come forward with any information revealing that
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: it might just be the missing piece of the puzzle. Well,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: I thought they didn't want sleuths to come forward. I
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: thought that all of the theories and speculation were hampering
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: your case. You can't have it both ways. Either you
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: want people to give you tips or you come out
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: and say, look, we're good on the tips for now.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: We have something we're working on and you guys can
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: stash it for a little while. But instead, in the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: beginning of this article, he talks about how it's in
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: the way of their investigation. And then later on in
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: the article, they're still asking for tips. So which way
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: is it? Border agents along the U.S. border with Canada
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: have been notified to be on the lookout for the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: car and tips have been pouring in from the public
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: ever since. So much so that the calls are now
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: being directed to a national FBI tip line. Captain Lanier
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: said on Monday that police believe the occupant or occupants
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: may have seen something.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Crucial to the case without realizing.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: We are looking for the car as we believe that
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: that car was in the area at the time of
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the murders, he said. And we believe the occupant or
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: occupants may have seen something. So we specifically want to
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: talk to them and want to know who they are
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and what they might know and what they might be
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: able to contribute to the investigation. And again, with the
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: mixed messaging. Oh, we don't want any tips. The online
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: sleuths are causing problems. But if you have any tips
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: on this, please give us a call. He added the
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: investigators do have more information about the murders than they
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: are releasing, but are keeping it under lock and key
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: because they want a conviction. We do have a lot
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: of information and we are specifically keeping that information safe,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: he said. We are not releasing specific details as we
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: do not want to compromise the investigation. We owe that
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: to the families and we owe that to the victims.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: We want more than just an arrest. We want a conviction. Well,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: that's all fine and well. And what people are saying
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: on the internet is not going to hamper that.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Now, if people are making threats, that's a whole different thing.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: When people are doxing folks, harassing them, they should be
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: dealt with. You shouldn't feel comfortable making threats to people,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: telling people you're going to harm them online. That's something
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: that should be addressed. But as far as sleuthing and
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: trying to place blame on people who are coming up
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: with theories or speculation on the internet, that smacks to
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: me of desperation and from an investigation that is stuck
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: in neutral. Now, I hope that's not the case, but
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that is what I'm getting from these comments. Police believe
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the four victims were stabbed to death in their beds
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: with a fixed blade knife at around 3 a.m.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Or 4 a.m.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: On November 13th. There were no signs of sexual assault.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Two of the victims were found on the second floor
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: and two on the third floor of the home. On
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the night of the 12th, Kernodle and Chapin were at
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: a sorority party at Sigma Chi House together from 8 p.m.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: To 9 p.m.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: And arrived back at the home at around 1.45 a.m.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: It is unclear where they were in the five-hour time gap.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Gonsalves and Mogan had spent the night at the Corner
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Club bar in downtown Moscow before stopping by a food
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: truck and then getting a ride home from an unnamed
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: private party to arrive at the property at around 1.56 a.m.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Two surviving roommates, were also out that night and arrived
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: home at around 1 a.m., police said. The two women,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: who lived in rooms on the first floor of the home,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: are believed to have slept through the brutal killings and
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: were unharmed. The horrific crime scene went unnoticed for several
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: more hours, with police receiving a 911 call at 11.58 a.m.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: on Sunday, reporting an unconscious individual at the home. The
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: two other roommates had first called friends to the home,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Because they believed one of the second floor victims was
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: unconscious and would not wake up. And I still don't
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: understand that really. Like why wouldn't you just call the
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: cops right away? Why wouldn't you just call like 911
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and say my roommate's unconscious?
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: But that's not what happened.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Instead we had a bunch of people come and contaminate
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: the crime scene even further unfortunately. Several people have been
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: ruled out as suspects. The two surviving housemates, the man
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: who was caught on camera with Mogan and Gonsalves at
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: a food truck in the downtown area before they headed
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: home on the night of the slayings, the person who
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: gave Mogan and Gonsalves a ride home from the food truck,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Gonsalves' former long-term boyfriend, and the friends who were in
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: the home when 911 was called. A sixth person listed
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: on the lease of the student home and two men
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: involved in a stalker incident With Gonsalves around a month before,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the murders are also not believed to be connected to
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: the case, police said. Well, what do you folks think?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Do you think that the online sleuths are getting in
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the way of the investigation? Or do you think the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: police are setting themselves up with a nice little excuse
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: in case things are going off of the rails? Shoot
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: me some emails and let me know. All right, everybody,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. If you'd
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: like to contact me, you can do that at bobbycapucci
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can also find
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I discussed can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. Like most of you,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I love a good mystery. And I am somebody who
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: is very interested in true crime. However, I don't think
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: it's a good idea for people to insert themselves in cases.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: You're not an investigator. You're not close to the case.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: And chances are, you don't have any evidence that the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: authorities have overlooked.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: And that's just the reality.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Now, I know there's people out there Who are good
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: at investigating and tying things up and putting the pieces together.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about the people
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: who actually think it's a good idea to dox people.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: To try and contact people who are family members or
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: investigators or somebody close to the case. Trust me when
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I tell you, they have no interest in what you're
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: talking about. And unless you have real information about the case,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: meaning you're somebody who is local, or you know somebody
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: who might know something about the case, who said something
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: to you, then I don't understand why people would be
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: inundating the tip line with a bunch of BS theories
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: that they heard on TikTok. And furthermore, TikTok really? I'm
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: happy to say that I've never used that stupid app
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: never once in my life. The whole idea of 30
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: second videos... being fulfilling to me is bizarre. I'm more
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: of a fan of long form content. And if I'm
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: going to spend my time doing something, I like to
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: learn something while I'm doing that. And TikTok just, it's
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: just not for me. Now that doesn't mean it's not
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: a great resource for other people, but for me, no,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: thank you. 30 second videos that just doesn't get it done.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of context and I'm certainly a
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: big fan of getting the whole story. And from what
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I see so far, TikTok certainly is in the place
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to try and do that. Now, personally, I don't really
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: hang out in any of these forums and I certainly
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: don't post in any of them. I spend most of
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: my time compiling news articles from sources that are close
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: to the situation or information that these outlets are getting
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: directly from the investigation. Now, that doesn't mean I'm not
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: somebody who has my own ideas about what I think
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: what happened here. And I think that people talking about
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: what might have happened is not the same, obviously, as
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: people who are out there doxing folk. That's really where
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I have a problem. I think it's very careless, it's reckless,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and somebody's going to get hurt. Just take a look
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: at what happened during the Boston Marathon bombing. And then
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: during the Gabby Petito case, while it wasn't as intense,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: because everybody pretty much knew what Brian Laundrie was and
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: what he did, But there were people out there going
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: after people who just look like Brian Laundrie. So there's
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: people who take it way too far. And I would
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: caution people not to do that.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Now, keeping the.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Case in the in the news and keeping it in
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the conversation, that's certainly something everybody should be doing, in
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: my opinion. But when it comes to, you know, taking
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: it a step further. and doxing people or trying to
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: contact people's family because you heard about them in a
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: TikTok video or something, that's a little too far and
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: it's reckless and it's really not helping anybody. So I'm
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: not a fan of it. I wasn't a fan of
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: it during Gabby Petito and I talked about it extensively.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: How I don't feel it's proper for people to be
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: out there protesting.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Now, I get it. People have a right to protest.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: But what about the neighbors? The neighbors had nothing to
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: do with this. People got to go to work. People
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: have to live a life. So when you start invading
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: people's lives and you start, you know, carelessly casting blame
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: on people without having any evidence because they give you
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: a bad vibe or they look weird or something, that's
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: just not the right way to go about things. So
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I would hope that people would refrain from that. But unfortunately,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: these kinds of stories, like I was saying, it drives
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: a feeding frenzy of bizarre behavior from a lot of
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: bizarre ass people. So with that in mind, we have
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: an article this morning from NBC News, and it's about
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Internet sleuthing and how it could be extremely dangerous. Headline,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: how Internet sleuthing in unsolved University of Idaho slayings can
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: be extremely dangerous. Facebook groups, Reddit forums, and TikTok posts
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: are adding to the intrigue surrounding the death of four
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: college students. Experts say they likely won't help crack the case.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I agree with that 100%. However, what I will.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Say is this.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: If people are talking about the case, that's one thing.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: And people can have whatever theories they want. That's everybody's right.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: People are going to discuss things. My problem, like I
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: said in the opening, is when you start doxing people.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: This article was authored by Eric... Ortiz. As the University
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: of Idaho hosts a vigil Wednesday evening in remembrance of
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: four students who were fatally stabbed in an off-campus home,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the lack of a suspect or a clear motive more
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: than two weeks later has fueled frustration toward police and
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: given rise to amateur detectives determined to crack the case.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: And I know there's people sitting around right now thinking
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: that they're in the Hardy Boys over here, thinking that they're,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: you know, Detective McNulty from The Wire and they're real
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: homicide police. The hundreds of tips and calls provided to local, state,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and federal investigators as a result of cyber sleuthing can
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: help both to pinpoint plausible leads and to rule out
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: potential suspects. But former FBI agents and law enforcement experts
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: say they more often than not are a hindrance to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: an investigation, divert resources, and attention, and can even be
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: harmful by ensnaring innocent people. And I think that's the
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: scariest part, right? All the other stuff, divert attention, you know,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: divert resources, well, that's what the investigation has to do.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Any sort of credible intelligence that comes in has to
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: be acted upon. So, even if people are calling with
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: tips and they're bizarre, you have to at the very
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: least give them credence if it's something with legs. With
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: what police, with all types of training and all of
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: the resources to help solve just about any type of crime,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: have at their fingertips? It's kind of hard to believe
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: that anyone just banging around on the Internet is going
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: to be able to solve the crime that we couldn't.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Pete Yachmetz, a retired FBI special agent in Florida with
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: three decades at the agency, said, I just don't fathom it. Well,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I'll say this to Mr.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Yachmetz.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: For all of those years you were at the agency,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: what did you do to try and stop Jeffrey Epstein?
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Because we know Epstein was running wild with the FBI
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: not doing a thing about it. Same goes for Larry Nassar.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And plenty of other cases I can bring up. Whitey Bulger,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Gregory Scarpa.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: We can go on. But my point is.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: for the FBI to act like you know they have
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: everything under control at all times that's crazy too but
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: when it comes to evidence and actually having a feel
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: for the case and looking at you know interviews and
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: real evidence the FBI the police they're well ahead of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: where any of us could possibly ever think we're possibly
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: going to be it's crazy that people think that they
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: know more than the people on the ground now That
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can't criticize the work that's being done,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: but to try and act like you know more, that's.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: A little bit crazy.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: But the case of Gabby Petito, a 22-year-old New York
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: native who went missing last year as she documented her
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: cross-country travels on social media with her fiancé, has become
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: a blueprint of sorts for people fascinated by missing persons
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: and unsolved crimes. As somebody who covered that story extensively,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of bozo, bizarre commentary there too.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I remember hearing all about how Brian Laundrie was headed
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: down to Mexico or how he was hanging out in
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: some abandoned house that his parents had access to from
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: one of their friend's rentals and all this other bizarre
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: stuff that was never going to be reality. And the
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: difference with Gabby Petito and with what happened here in
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Idaho is.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Night and day.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Everybody knew Brian Laundrie did it. Now, of course, it's
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: alleged until, you know, you get the evidence. But when
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: you looked at what went down and then you looked
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: at his behavior, it was a no brainer to anyone
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: following what was going on that Brian Laundrie was the person.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a big whodunit. It was more of a manhunt, right?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: And at that point, people are on the lookout. See,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: you know, is Brian Laundrie in my neighborhood? So people
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: were on the lookout and Of course, a bunch of
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: wild tips came in. We heard about people who look
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: like Brian Laundrie, some guy who said he talked to
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: him on a trail. Meanwhile, this dude had already killed
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: himself in a swamp. Intrigue surrounding Petito's disappearance exploded on
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: social media with a dedicated hashtag racking up more than
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: 1 billion views on TikTok posts as users theorized what
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: happened to her. Petito's body was ultimately discovered in a
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Wyoming forest. A manhunt ensued for her fiancé, Brian Laundrie,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: whose skeletal remains were found a month later in Florida. Now,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: when we're talking about that case, too, and we're talking
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: about the police, well, they said that they had Brian
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Laundrie under surveillance.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Remember that?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: And then old boy disappeared? So, people who are out
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: there and who get, like, offended when anyone criticizes the
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: police or an investigation.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: That's a little crazy, too. Because.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: They're not above reproach by any means. Now, going too
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: far is obviously ridiculous. You don't have access to evidence.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: You don't know what's going on behind the scenes. But
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: looking at a case overall and saying that resources are
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: being wasted one way or the other, authorities didn't react
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: in time, whatever, as long as it's constructive criticism. But
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: when you think that you know more than the investigators,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I really don't know what to say to that, honestly.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I think that after all of these years, all of
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: these cases.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: We should know better.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: And even with the Gabby Petito case, sure, it was
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: somebody from the community who went back and looked at
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: their footage, who spotted the van in their video, but
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: it wasn't some investigative, you know, team that cracked off
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: from a Facebook page. Nobody can point me in the
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: direction of anybody from a Facebook page or Reddit pages
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: where they're cracking cases all over the place. Now the
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: homicide in Moscow, Idaho, of the four University of Idaho students,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: friends Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, and Zanna Kernodle, and Kernodle's boyfriend,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin, has become a fresh mystery for internet sleuths
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: to speculate over.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And look, remember what I said way back.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: The internet now is like the water cooler at work,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: so everybody's going to talk about the case. People are
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: going to have speculation. And people are going to have
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: ideas about what went on. And as long as people
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: aren't doxing folks, I don't really see that being that
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: big of a deal. Like, there's no way to stop that.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: And there's a market for that. There's people out there
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: that want that kind of salacious news or scuttlebutt or theory, right?
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: People want to hear that stuff. And especially when there's
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: a lack of official information. So there's always going to
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: be consumers of that kind of information of that kind
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: of content. But when you start naming names, start talking
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: about where people live or where they work or where
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: their family is, that shit is dangerous and people should
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: not engage in that behavior ever. The three female students
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: lived in the home together with two other roommates, one
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: whose cell phone was used to call 911 just before
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: noon on November 13th. Authorities at the scene said they
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: found the four victims stabbed multiple times seemingly with an
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: edge weapon, with a large knife. No weapon has been found.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: One private Facebook group about the homicides now has more
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: than 32,700 members, in which users are dissecting past social
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: media posts the friends made before their deaths, pieced together
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: their interactions with others on Instagram, facebook and venmo accounts
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and even name people who they believe could be suspects
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: or say police should interview i am sure that the
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: investigators are sitting down and they're twiddling their thumbs right
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: now in moscow wondering what the people on facebook have
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: to say about the case i know that inside of
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: that group inside of that facebook group guaranteed sherlock holmes
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: is there and he's going to crack this one, folks.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: No worries.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: We can all pack it in, go home and not
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: worry about it because Facebook's on the case. A forum
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: on Reddit has more than 27,000 members, with users posing
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: theories and analyzing statements released by law enforcement and family
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: members of the victims. I have taken a look at
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: some of the Reddit forums, and they're moderated a little
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: bit better, I have to say. Now, of course, some crazies,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: but for the most part, just speculation, theory, and people
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: looking at overall, you know, the case overall. And I
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: think that's a good thing. If you're trying to get
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: a handle on things, trying to have some context, trying
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: to understand what the hell it is you're reading or
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: talking about, it's always a good idea to try and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: get some more context, some more information. And from what
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I saw, my very limited time perusing that forum, it
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: seemed like most people were on point and on topic.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Now that Facebook page, that group, I spent about three
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: seconds there and I bounced. And on TikTok, post with
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the hashtag IdahoMurders have more than 94.2 million views, with
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: users questioning if a serial killer is behind the deaths
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: or if the homicides are linked to other similar cases
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of unsolved stabbings in the region. Now, we've talked about
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: this stuff as well, and I won't rule out that
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: this is a serial killer. I mean, we don't have
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: enough information to rule out anything. And when it comes
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: to these sorts of investigations, I stay agnostic. Until we
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: have evidence leading us somewhere, I am agnostic as they come.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's a serial killer. Maybe it's a stalker. Maybe
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: it's somebody who saw them while they were working. Until
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: we know, we don't know. So far, the investigators have
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: said the deaths were part of a targeted attack and
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: not connected to other slayings. The conjecture, based on what
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: people have found through Internet searches and social media, has
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: apparently vexed police in Moscow, who said Sunday they received
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: nearly 500 digital media tips to an FBI page dedicated
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: to the case.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Now, look.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: People are going to send tips in and you guys
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: just have to sift through them. Unfortunately, you got to
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: take the good with the bad because you have to
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: have the tip line out. Without the tip line, you know,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: these investigations, forget it. How many of these cases are
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: closed because somebody in the community offers up a tip
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: that leads to the arrest of the person who's wanted?
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: More times than not, that's how these cases are solved.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: There is speculation, without factual backing, stoking community fears and
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: spreading false facts, the department said in a news release
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: this week. The city's website about the case also includes
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: a rumor control section seeking to tamp down unvetted information. Well,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: that's good, and I think that's a good idea. And
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I said that they should be communicating digitally as opposed
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: to holding these press conferences. All they do is sow
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: more seeds of confusion every time they have a press
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: conference and they evade and obfuscate. So why even bother
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: doing it? The Idaho State Police, which is handling inquiries
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: about the case, did not return multiple requests for comment.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Adam Adam Scott wants. An assistant professor and vice chair
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: for technology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice said
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: it's no coincidence that the homicide case of four Idaho
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: college students is gaining traction on platforms like YouTube and TikTok,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: which he attributes to advanced algorithms that are feeding these
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: types of posts to users. Hey, look, relax with that stuff, OK?
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: People are interested in this case. And people are going
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: to look for information and look for content, and there's
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: a whole ass independent media out there who do great work.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: So don't act like people on YouTube, all content creators
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: on YouTube, have no idea what they're talking about or
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: talking nonsense, because that's crazy. Now, I'm not somebody who
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: sits around and consumes a lot of videos or anything
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: when it comes to a case that I'm covering like this,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: as far as content from other people, because I like
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: to keep my work sterilized, if you will. But there
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: are a bunch of people who do fantastic work. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: when it comes to the independent media and independent content
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: creators especially, a lot of times it's much more honest
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: work than you even see from the legacy media. And
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: once again, just refer to the Jeffrey Epstein case if
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you're looking for a source. Gabby Petito went viral because
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt that TikTok was pushing that hashtag, he said. No,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the algorithm was pushing it because people were searching for it.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: So it goes hand in hand. But for every case
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: like Petito's, in which internet sleuthing can be advantageous, a
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: YouTube video helped to establish a possible crime scene, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: police to focus their search efforts, there are far more
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: in which armchair investigators are only adding to the noise,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Want said. In addition, Crowdsourced investigations can ruin lives, he added,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: as as with what happened when users on Reddit, Twitter
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and other social media platforms incorrectly identified the suspects in
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing based on photos and videos.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: And this is what I find the most dangerous. The
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: other stuff shrug my shoulders. You can't stop it. People
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: are going to talk. And I'm all I'm all about
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: free speech. I don't like to censor speech, no matter
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: how dangerous it is or how ridiculous it is. I
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: feel like sunlight is the best disinfectant for stupidity, right?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: And if you cut a man's tongue out while you're
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: telling the rest of the people, I'm scared of what
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: that person has to say. But when you start doxing
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: people and you start making it dangerous, start, you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: causing people to have problems in their actual lives, then
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: that's an issue that needs to be addressed. And if
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: you're somebody who's doing that, you should probably take a
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: minute to reevaluate your behaviors. It's extremely dangerous, Juan said.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: There's a wild, wild west aspect to all of this.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Jeremy Reagan, a University of Idaho law student who lives
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: near the crime scene in Moscow, is all too familiar
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: with being wrongly named. An interview he gave to the media,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: in which internet users said he looked suspicious, went viral
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: and led some to believe he was involved in the
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: student's deaths. Now, how are you going to tell me
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: somebody looks suspicious? Because somebody's awkward, all of a sudden,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: they're a murderer, they committed four homicides on their neighbor,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: because the investigators didn't go and check that out or anything, right?
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on, Occam's razor and all? The fact
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: that I had a nervous smile on my face, people
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: clung to that. Oh, he's smiling, he's proud of what
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: he did, Reagan said. But I wasn't asking to be
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: interviewed by a reporter. She literally stopped me while I
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: was taking out the garbage and I had nothing to hide.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: So I spoke with her. Now, how many of you
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: would have done the same?
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I know I would have.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: If one of my if my neighbors were murdered and
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: the police came or a reporter asked me, you know,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: questions about the neighborhood or about my neighbors, I would
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: speak with them as well. And then if I got
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: on the internet and I saw people bashing me saying
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I was the killer, let me tell you what, I
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have as much grace as Jeremy here. Mr. Jeremy
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Reagan has a lot of grace with the way he's
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: handling this. Because I have to tell you, I'm pretty
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: sure I'd be dropping some MFers out there and cursing
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: some people out. Police came to interview him this week,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: he said, but he made clear that he's actually the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: victim of online harassment and unfounded rumors in which people
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: went through his old social media posts to try and
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: prove a connection. He recently began answering questions on Reddit
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: in order to dispel the accusations. After I posted my
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: side of things, a lot of people have been reaching
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: out and saying, hey, I didn't think it was you,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: or hey, originally, I did think it was you, and
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: after reading through your post, I realized it's not, he said.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: There is no evidence whatsoever that would say that Mr.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Reagan is the murderer, and anyone who would jump to
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: that conclusion, I have to say, you should probably tamper
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: down your dosage of hallucinogenics. He added that he understands
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: people's curiosity and wanting to be the one who unlocks
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: a mystery, but it shouldn't come at a cost. Sometimes
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: it can help, Reagan said. But I think a lot
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: of the time what people end up finding or reporting
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: to police just jams up the investigation. It's a waste
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: of time and resources. Well, I don't agree with that.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I think that people should report whatever they find to
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: the police. And it's up to the police with a
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: massive investigation like this where they're certainly facing a lot
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: of scrutiny. I think it would behoove them to make
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: sure they're going through all of this evidence, even if
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: it seems bizarre. Now, obviously, if something is crazy, you know, oh,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: there's a Sasquatch involved, or aliens showed up, you can
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: waste bin that shit right away. But I'm talking about
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: anything that might be legitimate. Because, really, we just don't know.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: And if you listen to the investigators, if you read
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: between the lines, they're saying that they still need more information.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: They're asking for more tips from the community. That means
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: the people in Moscow, however. Not somebody who's sitting around
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: in Maine. So... I think this whole internet sleuthing thing
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: is beneficial in some regards. There is no doubt about it.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: My problem with it is when people go too far
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: and they start trying to get involved as if they're
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: part of the case. I saw it with the Epstein
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: case and it was crazy then and I called it
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: out then. You had people who would be contacting the
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and asking all kinds of bizarre
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: private personal stuff. And I just shook my head about
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: that nonsense. And I'm shaking my head about this nonsense
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: as well. Doxing people? Really? Not a good idea. All right, folks,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. If you'd
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: like to contact me, you can do that at bobbycapucci
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can also find
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I discussed can be found in the description box. What's
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: up everyone and welcome back to the program. The situation
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: that unfolded up in Moscow in the aftermath of the
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: murders in Moscow was nothing short of batshit insane. And
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: you had people coming out of the woodwork with all
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: kinds of crazy ass theories, all kinds of crazy ass ideas.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: You had some.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Weird ass tarot card reader talking about how a professor,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Professor Schofield, was involved in what happened. So you just
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: had a whole litany of crazy people coming out of
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the woodwork and blaming a bunch of people that had
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with what happened for the murders. And
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: of course, that causes a lot of grief for people.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: And a lot of this stuff was coming from the
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: cesspool known as TikTok. And I just don't understand why
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: adults are on TikTok and actually believing the bullshit that
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: they're hearing and reading. These people are just trying to
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: make a few bucks. You know, they're out here talking
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: all kinds of nonsense, salacious bullshit. This one's the murderer.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: That one's the murderer. Grub truck guy. Jack. And the
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: list went on and on and on and on. And
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: let's not forget the people that were talking about, oh, well,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: this is obviously a drug hit. Remember those folks? Oh,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: these kids are obvious drug dealers, and that's why these
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: murders happened. So in the aftermath of all of this,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of BS to wade through. And
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: obviously the best way to do that is to follow
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: along with what's going on in the court documents. So
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: that's why we take the time to go through all
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: that stuff. Because for me, I think that context is
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: the most important thing. And if you don't have all
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: of the context, or at least all of the available context,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: how are you going to really know what the hell
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: is going on? Today we have an article from the
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: US Sun and the headline, Web of Lies, How TikTok
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Sleuths Drove Suspects Into Hiding After Accusing Them of Killing
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Four Students in Infamous Idaho Murders. This article was authored
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: by Allison Maloney. The brutal murders of four students stabbed
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: to death at their shared digs in November of 2022
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: sent shockwaves through the small town of Moscow, Idaho and
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: made headlines around the world. I would say that it
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: sent shockwaves throughout the whole entire country and most certainly
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: parts of the world. When you have something like this
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: go down, it is an international story literally from the
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: day it happens. That's because it's not very often that
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: you find a quadruple homicide, especially one that includes four
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: college kids that were minding their own business in their home.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: But what followed also highlighted a toxic social trend, as
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: armchair sleuths wrongly targeted a series of suspects, including the
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: tragic student's roommates, an ex-boyfriend, a local food truck owner,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: and a college lecturer. And there's no doubt that the
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: insanity that followed these murders was completely uncalled for. You
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: can't just go around and accuse people without having any evidence. Now,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: you can talk about situations that have been brought up and,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: you know, speculate, but you can't come out here and
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: talk about this one's a murderer, that one's a murderer,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: and not have any evidence.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: What sort of moron are you?
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: And all of these weird-ass content creators on TikTok running
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: their fat yaps, I just don't get it. And what's
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: even more baffling to me is that after they're proven wrong,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: after their bullshit's exposed... Why do people continue to listen
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: to them? As police struggle to nail the killer of
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, Maddie Mogan, and Kaylee Gonsalves, TikTok
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: blew up with unfounded theories that attracted more than 2
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: billion views around the world. Now look, I get it.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: People are starved for information, and a lot of the
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: fault could be placed at the feet of the authorities
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: for not being more transparent. Now, of course, they can
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: only go so far, but there is no doubt in
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: my mind that the gag order is way overly restrictive.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: And the scope of that gag order is way too
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: broad and large. And that, of course, offers up fertile
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: ground for conspiracy theories and other nonsense to pop up.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So whenever there is a monetary gain for people and
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: a chance to make a few bucks, you know that
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: there's going to be people out there that are going
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: to do it. And it's one thing to make content
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: That's following along with the actual story, right? But it's
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: another thing to be out here and accusing people of
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: murder or being involved in something as gruesome as this.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Named as possible perpetrators by self-styled online investigators who published
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: their pictures, places of work, and even home addresses, innocent
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: individuals were abused, threatened, and forced into hiding. Even after
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: the arrest of criminology student Brian Kohlberger six weeks into
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: the investigation, while theories that there was more than one
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: killer continued to circulate. One young man, dubbed Hoodie Guy,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: after he was caught on camera standing behind two of
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: the victims in the queue for a late-night food truck
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: on the night of the murders, was named in a
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: TikTok video viewed by more than one million people, along
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: with false claims he had boasted about owning a knife
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: similar to the murder weapon and had fled the country
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: after the horrific crimes. And remember in the aftermath, oh yeah,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: the person who killed them has to be a hunter.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: They know how to skin an animal. Remember all the
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: nonsense we were hearing? Well, there was a lot of
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: other nonsense out there, and that nonsense was very hurtful
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: to a lot of people. And again, you just can't
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: run around talking about this one's guilty or that one's
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: guilty without having any evidence. I mean, it seems pretty basic,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: but I guess not. His desperate sister took to TikTok
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: to make a passionate plea for the video to be
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: taken down after her parents' address was shared. Now imagine
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: your parents' address is shared by a bunch of morons
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: on TikTok. People start showing up to your parents' house
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: and shit. Yeah, that's going to be fun for you
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: and certainly fun for your parents. Meanwhile, you don't have
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: anything to do with what happened. Outlandish theories. This has
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with my family. This video has pictures
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: of our houses. It shows where we work and our
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: faces are plastered all over it, she says. We have
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: received threats and harassment, and we didn't deserve that. Well,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: that's true. And anybody who is threatening and harassing people
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: without having all of the details, well, you're a moron.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know how much more plainly I can put it.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Rebecca Schofield, a lecturer at the University of Idaho, where
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: the four victims were studying... was forced to deny she
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: was having an affair with one of the students and
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: was behind the killings. And that was the weird-ass TikTok
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: tarot card lady who was, you know, doing her tarot
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: card readings that so many people were sucking up. And
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: I remember at the start of this, I got emails
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: from people talking about, have you seen what the tarot
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: card reader says?
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: No, I haven't.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: I don't believe in tarot card readers. I don't believe
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: in ghosts. I don't believe in demons.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: The occult. I don't believe in any of that bullshit.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: But unfortunately, there's a lot of people out there that
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: take this shit for, you know, the truth. It's one
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: thing to follow along with stuff like that as entertainment.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: It's a whole ass other thing when you really think
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: that this shit is true. She is suing her accuser,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: online psychic Ashley Gillard, for defamation. Among those hooked on
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the developing case and the outlandish theory surrounding it, plus
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: the shady world of online sleuths, is Zara McDermott. who
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: presents the BBC documentary The Idaho Murders, Trial by TikTok,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: on Wednesday. And this documentary is in the same vein
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: as the one that Paramount just produced recently, talking about
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: the sleuths up in Idaho as well. She traveled to Moscow,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: a population of 25,000, and spoke to the armchair detectives there,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: as well as those who have been targeted by trolls,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: with accusations that they were involved. She tells The Sun...
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: We wanted to show how hurtful and how damaging it
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: can be for someone who is completely innocent to be
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: accused of something as huge as a quadruple homicide. For example,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: if you search online for Hoodie Guy, a full name
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: comes up, as well as conspiracy theories as to how
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: and why he murdered four of his peers. You know,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: people just say whatever they want on the internet, and
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: they think that there is no accountability, that they're never
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: going to have to answer for what they say or
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: what they do. And that's because most times there's no
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: repercussions for the stuff you say or do on the internet.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: That is going to be there forever for this poor
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: young man because a couple of people made outlandish claims
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: that could ruin his whole life. The four students had
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: enjoyed a night out on November 12th, 2022 before returning
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: to their shared house in the early hours. At around 4am,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: they were butchered in their rooms with a military-type knife.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Their roommates, Bethany Funk, and Dylan Mortensen were also in
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: the three-story house, but they were left unharmed. Within days,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: a viral guessing game had sprung up on TikTok. Zara27 says,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: A lot of young people were hooked on this case,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: and TikTok played a massive role in how viral it went.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: It came up on my TikTok page a couple of
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: days after the murders, before there had been any police
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: announcements or press conferences. Well, I don't know about all that, because... Basically,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: the day after the murders, we were talking about this. Literally,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: the day after this happened, I had an episode. There
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: were conspiracy theories, so-called doorbell footage, of the murders actually happening,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: which we now know weren't real. The hashtag Idaho4 was
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: getting millions of views, but so much of the content
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: I was watching was based on no substance. Oh, kinda
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: like the regular media, huh? Anonymous sources... This one says that,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: this one says this, but just believe us. So basically
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: the same thing the media does. Police were reluctant to
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: release information, creating a vacuum which was quickly filled online.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: But one police report revealed that housemate Dylan had come
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: face to face with the armed suspect outside of her
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: room and had gone into frozen shock. However, the alarm
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: was not raised until 11.58am, 8 hours later. The delay
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: was seized on by internet sleuths who put Dylan and
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Bethany in the frame. One TikTok user wrote, I think
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: it was an inside job. I think the two surviving
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: roommates had something to.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Do with it.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: After their photos and details circulated online, the girls were
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: forced to close their social media accounts and go into hiding.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Another target was Kaylee's ex-boyfriend, Jack Decor, who she called
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: several times on the night that she died. And in
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: the direct aftermath, when we didn't know anything about the story,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: when we were first hearing that these phone calls were made,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: I thought that he might have had something to do
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: with it too. But obviously, as things unfolded and we
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: got more evidence, we learned more about what happened, it
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: was relatively obvious that it wasn't Jack. His aunt Brooke
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Miller told the New York Post newspaper her nephew not
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: only lost the love of his life, but also that
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: half of America thinks he could be responsible for the murders.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Even Joe Woodall, a manager of the Grub Truck food
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: van where Kaylee and Madison bought tacos after leaving a
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: local bar at 1.53 a.m., was named as a suspect.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: And the owner of a bagel bar, known as Smitty,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: tells Zara he received death threats after online psychic Donna
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Serafina said the killer was the son of a baker.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Yet Smitty doesn't have a son. Another online psychic, huh?
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Why would anyone listen to any sort of psychic? All
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, Ms. Cleo's making a comeback? And all
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: these kids on TikTok are into it? People want answers.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: But the rumor mill in Overdrive, Moscow police, were forced
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: to call a press conference to rule out suspects named online,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: including Bethany, Dylan, Jack, and Hoodie Guy. To try to
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: understand the online sleuths, Zara met Jonathan Lee Riches, who
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: grew his social media audience by 100,000 through posting eight
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: videos a day about the killings, and calls himself an
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: online truth seeker. The host of YouTube channel JLR Investigates
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: is unapologetic about the effect his reports have on the
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: people he accuses. He says the goal is to let
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: criminals and bad actors be put on notice that you
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: can't get away with it nowadays because you're going to
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: have YouTubers and social media on you.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Oh well, you're a real tough guy, huh? Social media
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: is going to be on you. What a tool.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I throw names around that could be boyfriends of the victims,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: fraternity members, sorority girls, neighbors, because maybe you can get
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: these people to come out and share where they were
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: so we can cross them off. Breaking news, Jonathan. It's
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: not your job to cross them off. Talk about main
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: character syndrome.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Holy fuck.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: There's no such thing as innocent till proven guilty. You're
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: guilty until you prove otherwise. Imagine thinking like this. And
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: then people who go and listen to this shit and,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: you know, suck this content down. You're just as responsible, honestly.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Stop with the bullshit. Stop feeding the fire. Zara is
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: not surprised by his views and says many of the
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: so-called armchair detectives believe they are shedding light on an
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: unsolved mystery. She says JLR bases his existence around being
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: a truth-seeking sleuth, and that's what he does for a living.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: With someone so invested, it's very hard to make him
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: see he's doing anything wrong. From his perspective, He can
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: make any video he wants because he thinks it could
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: help get to the bottom of the case. But from
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: an outsider's perspective, I believe the authorities have access to
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: all the information available and they are gathering evidence but
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: having to keep it back because they don't want people
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: like him making sensationalist content around any information that's released.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: And that's really what it comes down to. That's what
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: it is. There's a lot of people out there that
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: are looking to benefit from this. And from all of
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: these tragedies, honestly. And it's one thing to get paid
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: for your work, right? I'm all for that. People should
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: get paid for their work. But if you're getting out
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: here and you're making sensationalist claims and there's nothing to
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: back it up, that's not work.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: That's just gossiping.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: People want answers and the police are stuck between a
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: rock and a hard place. People continue to make videos
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: saying the police haven't done their job properly. They can't win.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: She says the killings have devastated the town. Zara continued,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: they hadn't had a homicide in many years and it's
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: a very quiet college town with one road in and
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: one road out full of students and people who have
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: lived here their whole lives. The content affected them. If
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: they weren't directly affected, someone they knew had been accused.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger was arrested in December of after his DNA
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: was found on a knife sheath at the murder scene,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: is on trial for the four murders. He is pleaded
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: not guilty. Zara, whose previous documentaries include revenge porn and
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: disordered eating, says she is worried that younger people consume
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: too much news from unreliable social media sources, especially TikTok. Well,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt about that. And there's a lot of
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: fault with the legacy media because they lie all the
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: time and they bullshit. So people are looking for other sources.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: She says we're in a very odd space in social
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: media where there are no repercussions for saying something outlandish online,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: even accusing an innocent person of quadruple homicide.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: How crazy is that?
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: I worry that young people aren't watching mainstream news or
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: reading mainstream media who all have to abide by certain
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: journalistic guidelines and and where facts are checked. Oh, come on,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: give me a break, really? Facts are checked, huh? The
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: legacy media is out here pitching all kinds of bullshit.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Anonymous source this, anonymous source that, Vafangul you, and your
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: anonymous source. The way the TikTok algorithm works, if I
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: watch a certain type of content, my feed will keep
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: giving me more and more of the same. I can
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: make a video right now with any theory I just
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: made up, and it could go viral. That's really scary. Well,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt that it could, But it's her job
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: as someone in the legacy media to make sure that
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: she's getting all the information that's available and putting it out.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Because if not, you're going to have fertile ground for
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: all of this stuff to continue to grow. And we
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: all know that the conspiracy theories in this story are
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: just absolutely bizarre. So either way, we're going to continue
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: doing what we do here on this podcast and follow
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: along with the facts of the story. And that way
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: we can keep everything as straight as possible. so that
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: we're armed with as much information as possible when it
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: becomes trial time. Alright folks, that's going to do it
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: for this one. All of the information that goes with
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.