Latest / Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori / 93. [Show, don't Tell Page Review] Middle Grade Magical Realism

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93. [Show, don't Tell Page Review] Middle Grade Magical Realism · Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori

0:05
Welcome to the show.
0:05
Don't Tell Writing Podcast with me, Suzy Vidori, where I peel back the layers of how to wow your readers with your fiction, your nonfiction.
0:13
Anybody can bang out a first draft, but it takes a little more work to make your book as amazing as it can be.
0:20
Join me as I share the step by step writing techniques you could apply to your writing right away.
0:25
As I host successful writers who share a behind the scenes look at their own writing lives, and as I live coach writers on their pages giving practical writing examples that will make your own writing stronger.
0:38
Nobody is born knowing how to write an engaging book.
0:42
There are real and important skills that you need to learn on this show.
0:46
I cut through the noise and get you all the info you need.
0:49
I can't wait to see how this information is going to transform your writing.
0:56
Today on the show, no Tell Writing podcast.
0:59
We're gonna do some live coaching with Stacy Birch.
1:02
I met Stacy through a contest at Writers Helping Writers, and she submitted one page from her newest work that she's working on, which is called One of the Kind.
1:11
It's a middle grade magical Realism novel, and it features Una Oliver, which is so much fun.
1:17
And the town that the actual middle grade novel is set in is called Puke.
1:22
If that doesn't do a lot of show, don't tell writing.
1:25
I don't know what does.
1:26
This is such a fun episode.
1:28
Stacey shared a page where Una meets a lot of the friends that she's gonna go through her journey with.
1:33
And as well, there's some backstory that we have to deal with.
1:36
So this page has to do so.
1:37
So much work and it was jumping around a little bit.
1:40
So if you've got a page or a section in your book where you know that you need the reader to have information, but it just feels a little bit dry, listen to this episode because we have tons and tons of ideas of how to jazz that section up and use show to tell writing to make it really pop.
1:58
Stacey is actually a traditionally published children's author already for books ranging from picture books to middle grade novels, and her debut picture book Away with Words came out in August of 2022 and her second picture book Searching for Sleep came out in October of 2022, and they're both available to order.
2:15
She earned her BA in English and a BS in secondary education in Pittsburgh, and as a high school English teacher for more than 10 years.
2:23
She happily created stories, edited papers, and fostered budding young minds before receiving her own Master's of Arts in Secondary English curriculum design from Shepherd University.
2:35
In Shepherdstown, Stacey and her husband moved to Brussels, Belgium, where they were fortunate to travel the world.
2:41
During this time, Stacey worked at the College of Advertising and Design before returning to the USA.
2:46
Thanks to their passion for regenerative agriculture, Stacey, her husband, and their three young children are hoping to start a sustainable family mini farm.
2:54
When not writing stories, chasing kids or freelance editing.
2:57
Stacey presents virtually and in person on various topics such as the creative writing process, curriculum design for the modern child, and of course her books.
3:07
This is a super fun episode.
3:09
I think you're really gonna enjoy it and learn a ton.
3:14
Here's the one page that Stacey submitted that we're about to review today.
3:18
Normally avoided nas so they wouldn't see the magic inside her, and she'd only ever met one other kind her age.
3:24
The buck tooth and bratty Artie boils, whose catcher was an empty tin can that showed up when he was seven.
3:31
His auntie Paula and Uncle Victor had left him all alone as all kind must to fend for himself.
3:37
After that, when Artie met Una, he'd scowled at her for not having a catcher yet.
3:42
Then he'd walked away with his head, tipped a bit too high, leaving Una to wonder how kind he really was.
3:48
Jane stopped dribbling and stared wide-eyed at Una.
3:51
Una snapped back to attention with a shove of wild curls behind her ears.
3:55
Oopsie.
3:55
Sorry I get distracted sometimes.
3:57
I'm Una Oliver.
3:59
Liza is my granny Granny.
4:02
Liza never said anything about family, and I've known her my whole life.
4:06
Jane stared at Una a little too long.
4:08
Una fidgeted with the hem of her t-shirt, and watched beads of sweat roll down Jane's long arms.
4:13
She tried to come up with a story.
4:16
Auntie Joan and Uncle Clyde had taught her well to lurk on the outside of circles, like a cobweb in a corner, just close enough to catch kindness and do the first good deed to get the ball rolling, but never close enough to be remembered.
4:31
Never close enough to find friends.
4:33
When people remember you, it leads to questions about who you are and why they're there.
4:37
They'll look closer.
4:38
They'll see the magic's light.
4:40
Uncle Clyde had warned.
4:42
Nuns must believe the magic of kindness begins in themselves.
4:46
That's how it spreads After all, in fact, una never went to a place where another kind witch called for them, and Granny Lizza was the only witch Una had ever heard of who stayed in one place permanently.
5:00
Welcome to the show and tell podcast.
5:02
Stacy, it is so awesome to have you here.
5:06
Oh, great.
5:07
Thank you so much.
5:07
It's wonderful to be here.
5:09
I was really excited to talk about these pages, so they are from, alright, I really wanna read out just this pitch for a second because when I asked Stacey to tell me a little bit about her book, first of all, this page that she submitted is an important scene.
5:25
What, where in the book is it though, Stacey?
5:26
Is it like sort of near the beginning?
5:29
Yes, so this is early on, I believe it's right at the beginning of chapter three.
5:33
So it's a really important scene where we start to meet some of the major characters that are going to be a big part of the story.
5:39
Yes.
5:40
Oh, chapter three.
5:41
I mean, I like to say that chapters are relatively arbitrary in terms of where we cut them.
5:46
However, chapter three is a really important one because it's psychologically or mentally, the chapter that kid readers and out readers and reviewers and publishers will decide whether or not they keep reading.
5:59
So it's really super important.
6:01
We're gonna get to it in a second.
6:03
I just wanted to say this is one of the best blurbs or one of the best summaries I've read in a long time.
6:08
And I'm gonna read it for everybody, and then I'm gonna talk about what you do here.
6:14
That is show hotel, that makes it really great.
6:17
And then we're gonna talk about how to bring that into the one page that you sent.
6:21
Okay.
6:21
Awesome.
6:22
All right, so here goes.
6:24
This is what this book is about.
6:25
I asked in 250 words or less, what is your book about?
6:28
And this, I don't know whether this was heavily edited or not.
6:31
It's really good.
6:32
12-year-old Una Oliver is one of the kind witches who travel the world undetectable, spreading kindness to non who are non magical folk in need as a young witch in training, she must learn from her guides, auntie Joan and Uncle Clyde.
6:46
Until her kindness capture comes and she ventures off alone, kind witches may never stay together.
6:52
After all, for risk of exposing the magic.
6:55
So when the town of Puke New Hampshire, and I'm gonna talk about that in a second, calls to Una and her aunt and uncle for help, they unpack their bags at the Wish cafe under the distrustful eye of the crotchety owner, granny Liza.
7:09
But puke proves to be a challenge needing more kindness than most towns.
7:13
As a shadow slowly spreads overhead and the always optimistic Una finds herself accidentally making friends with Jane and Dill, despite the kind which rules that forbid such things.
7:24
With each mistake, she makes una's kind deeds unravel causing her quirky love of speaking in idioms to wreak havoc on the town as literal events raiding cats.
7:35
And Dobbs is nothing compared to a tempest in a teapot or skeletons in a closet.
7:40
Together with Jane Di Joan Clyde, and even Granny Eliza Uno racist to spread kindness and correct her chaos.
7:47
Before the ever-growing shadow of doubt covers the talent for good.
7:51
Causing Una to discover that sometimes the best way to spread kindness to others is by being kind to yourself first.
7:58
Okay?
7:59
I love all of this.
8:00
If I was coaching you in terms of for an actual pitch, I'd tell you to take out all the names, but let's just ignore like the technical piece.
8:08
For now, because you really wanna focus on Una.
8:11
Um, you can say, you know, she meets friends without naming them.
8:13
It just doesn't, it's hard for people to digest.
8:16
But I wanna say what you did really well was getting specific.
8:19
You were so specific and, you know, even not just saying using idioms, but you use ones and we can already imagine them.
8:28
The naming of the town of Puke is just my absolute favorite thing.
8:32
I actually, I, I think I laughed out loud.
8:34
If I didn't, I like maybe gasped.
8:36
It is.
8:37
So fun.
8:39
It evoked all kinds of negative things.
8:43
Really for me.
8:44
I mean, I'm somebody who suffers from severe ocean sickness, so anything buke is like kind of on the table at any moment, but you know it's not a good association and then you immediately give the town that it factor that they need help.
8:59
How did they come about?
9:00
How did you, like, how do you even feel like this is middle grade and gross humor and totally welcome.
9:06
How did that combust?
9:08
So, uh, pub Hampshire to my knowledge, does not actually exist, but Pike, New Hampshire does exist, and it's a town that I've run to many times, family area.
9:17
And so it, it inspired me with one, it's beauty and just the fabulous town itself, uh, which is full of very happy people.
9:25
I should add, that's, but just when I first saw it, the name puke came to mind.
9:30
Just, it made me laugh out loud too, to be honest.
9:33
And it had that connotation, you know, of.
9:35
It's just a town in need.
9:37
It really is.
9:38
Yeah.
9:38
It's a town in need and it's here to help.
9:41
Yeah, and and this in the story, I kind of used the setting as character in a way too.
9:45
So it really kind of comes to life a little bit.
9:48
We had to give it the right name.
9:50
Absolutely.
9:50
Well, I think, I think you've nailed it.
9:52
It's very name, and I think I love that you're using setting as character and in a magical realism story like this.
10:01
You're also using magic as character, hopefully.
10:04
So I love to say, you know, that we're unfolding it and it's nice to have the, I mean, when I'm jumping in just for one page, I need a little bit of information about the magic because I've gotta say I've, I've seen, don't take this the wrong way.
10:18
'cause it's not, meaning that it can't be done.
10:20
There's only one story, there's only two stories in the world, right?
10:23
Somebody goes on a journey or somebody comes to town.
10:25
So it's not a bad thing.
10:26
But I do see a lot of sort of what I say comes true.
10:30
In middle grade stories and you know, there's power in your words type things, and, but this is, this feels different because it's specific and so you've done a great job from what I can see of making sure that it's very specific and that we don't just blow past it and think that it could be a winky deep, right, like that, it could be a coincidence.
10:52
What she says comes true.
10:53
This is gonna be like raiding cats at dogs is literally gonna happen and things like that.
10:57
So that is really awesome because it's a big mistake that a lot of writers make, especially in middle grade, is that their magic is too subtle and you want it to be fun and you want it to be weird, like make a splash.
11:09
This is not real life and it should be a lot of fun.
11:11
And yeah, when it's too subtle, it's hard to track and it doesn't stand out and it feels so specific.
11:16
I'm actually dying to read it.
11:17
It reminds me of.
11:18
Again, not in a bad way.
11:20
The Amelia Bedelia stories, I know you write picture books as well, but do you remember those?
11:25
I'm, I'm dating myself now.
11:27
Oh yeah.
11:27
Sweet Amelia Bedelia literally does yeah.
11:29
Heat up a can of soup and she puts a can of a can of soup inside the pot and doesn't understand why that's bad.
11:36
Right.
11:37
Like.
11:37
And it's interesting because I think you're going to really encourage readers, young readers to be fascinated by language because there are a lot of things that we literally say, and my very long and arduous journey to becoming a book coach and doing all things writing.
11:53
I became fascinated really early on with those types of things, or homophones or, or things like why isli like this.
11:59
So it's always, it can be so absurd and middle grades are still deciding what they think of language.
12:07
So I believe that this premise is gonna intrigue them, get them hooked.
12:10
Good job.
12:10
Okay.
12:12
Every piece in this blurb is doing double, triple duty.
12:16
We wanna bring this, this page up to that level of detail, or at least the scene, if not this page.
12:25
I must say one of the things that's difficult in this page is that you're introducing new characters and you're introducing Backstory, right?
12:33
So I'm not sure what surrounds it, but I do know that it can't all go on the same page.
12:39
Right?
12:40
So what have we learned in chapters one and two about this premise that they can't be together?
12:46
Do we know that already?
12:48
We do know that about.
12:49
So the Kind Witch is really once they get their kindness catcher, which is like a tool that kind of helps shine the light of need on people that really need it.
12:58
Um, and it kind of calls to each kind witch differently.
13:01
And our main character in the story doesn't have hers yet.
13:04
Normally they get them as a young child and then they kind of go off and do their own thing, kind of lurking on the shadows more so they're not supposed to draw attention to themselves, things like that.
13:13
She Una has taken a lot longer than normal to find her kindness catcher and or great to find her.
13:19
Um, so she's still with her guides and she calls 'em aunt and knuckle, but they're not actually her aunt and knuckle.
13:23
That's just kind of the terms that we, okay.
13:25
Yeah.
13:26
And so she is still searching for this, and then in the first few chapters, it's really.
13:32
Finding this new town, coming to this new town that has really been calling to nominated through this gran character because she's struggling immensely with the whole town in general.
13:42
And so this is unusual for all, for more than one kindness to really a kind witch to be in area together.
13:49
Um, unless you're in training sort of so you can be with them then.
13:53
So they're all together now in this town, and, uh, the first two chapters really set this setting very much so.
13:59
And Joan Clyde and Gran Eliza.
14:02
And you get to know Una's quirky personality a bit because she is not used to actually socializing with people.
14:09
She doesn't do it.
14:11
All that.
14:11
Well, I mean, honestly this takes after me as a kid.
14:14
I just, I would say the most random things and I did use idioms a lot 'cause I thought they made me sound more grown up.
14:20
Um, I didn't even know what, oh my goodness.
14:22
You are amazing.
14:22
Paul.
14:23
You are my party.
14:24
And so you, your bat Oh, quite a bit.
14:26
And so when this chapter roll around, it's really when she meets somebody, the children for the first time in the town and she doesn't know how to interact with them because she never really does typically.
14:37
And, uh, it's a very awkwardy for her because she's thinking these rules in the back of her mind.
14:43
Like, I can't make friends with people.
14:44
I can't really be noticed.
14:46
But then she also kind of wants to, you get to see this, this interest in her kind of peaks a little bit with these kids in tech.
14:54
Yeah.
14:54
And that, I love that.
14:56
And the buck tooth and bratty Artie boils, whose catcher was an empty chain.
15:00
Can again, you've, you've really, I mean, I don't know anything about your magic, but I know that if my catcher was an empty chain, can, it's pretty lame, right?
15:08
So then love the best.
15:10
So yeah, that showed up when he was seven.
15:12
So even though she kind of admires it, she's like, wow, I hope I don't get that right.
15:17
Mm-hmm.
15:17
Like that.
15:18
That one's really obvious and you've chosen some smart things around it.
15:21
It conveys exactly the mood that you're going for.
15:24
I think it's actually really masterful how you're using this, and you also did a good thing here when we're introducing a new character.
15:32
That's the time to introduce a detail or two.
15:36
Right?
15:36
Not a full description.
15:38
Not all, you know, 10 pages and not the third time we meet him, but the first time he's mentioned.
15:43
Right.
15:44
So perfect execution there.
15:46
Okay, so I asked some questions here, but I think we probably know this already, that she doesn't have a catcher.
15:53
It's part of her quest, right?
15:55
Here you do have a point of view issue here, and I want to ask you what point of view that you're writing from, is it Una's point of view in this chapter or is it omniscient?
16:05
So it is Una's point of view in the she is in choice.
16:09
Yeah.
16:09
She, she is trying to remember the time she met Artie.
16:12
But it's there because one of her rare interactions with another kid and it happened to be a kind witch, but the, as she's actually speaking in the present moment with Jane.
16:22
So we can't know why he's scowling in if you're in Una's point of view.
16:26
So just watch that.
16:27
It's a really subtle thing and I know.
16:29
Omni mission point of view is really not that popular unless you're running fairytales in middle grade right now.
16:34
It's, it's just very difficult to do well.
16:37
Okay.
16:37
This explanation is a bit of a mouthful in show no tell.
16:40
It's always better to show what is there versus what isn't there, right?
16:45
So flip it.
16:46
So here we're saying when already met Una, he had scowled at her for not having a catcher yet.
16:51
So she can't know why, but she can guess why.
16:55
But try this because it's.
16:58
What she doesn't have.
17:00
Right?
17:01
So that is very difficult for even adult readers, let alone middle grade readers to picture something that isn't there, right?
17:07
So try something like he scowled at the empty space beside her, where a catcher should be by her age or something better.
17:14
So if you just see, it's a very subtle thing.
17:17
If you're telling us what isn't there, we have nothing to picture and it's very difficult.
17:21
So they'll just kind of blow by it and it won't be as effective.
17:24
Okay.
17:25
Then we meet Jane.
17:26
Right?
17:26
So we're talking with Jane.
17:28
I assume that we've mentioned her earlier, so I'm just checking that, flagging it just in case.
17:32
Because if it's jarring for me because I hadn't seen her, but that's 'cause I'm jumping into a page, which is kind of fun.
17:37
And you're saying Yes, she's talking with Jane.
17:40
I just wanna point out too, you're just masterful with this, with the shove of wild curls behind her ears.
17:45
You are using excellent, strong language.
17:47
It's really effective.
17:49
It conveys such a fun vibe.
17:51
Good job.
17:52
So don't take these things out.
17:53
I mean, this literally shows us, it demonstrates her renewed focus and her determination.
17:58
Excellent.
17:59
So here, granny Liza had never said anything about having any family.
18:04
Having any family, and I've known her my whole life this year.
18:07
Liza never said anything about family.
18:09
I just had to read it twice to make meeting.
18:11
It would probably make more sense.
18:13
If I had read before and after, but I'm trying to get my grounding, but just a suggestion to make it easier to read, adding a couple of words.
18:19
Una fidgeted with the hem of her t-shirt and watched beads of sweat roll down Jane's long arms.
18:24
Okay.
18:25
This is super dramatic and again, but I'm not sure it makes sense unless they're somewhere hot.
18:30
It is supposed to be really hot there.
18:32
Okay.
18:32
There's no air conditioning hits this whole cafe and it's the, it's summertime.
18:36
Okay.
18:36
So that does make sense.
18:37
Then I was like, if it, if you're just trying to convey like nervousness or stress, I'm like, it's a little over, right.
18:43
Over the time that we've got a, a child who's sweating profusely.
18:48
Um, but yeah.
18:48
No, that's awesome.
18:49
I just wanted to check that and again, we'll know that.
18:52
Okay.
18:53
So I would say the same thing as in your blurb.
18:55
There's a lot of names on this page and that's partially why you're having trouble with it because you wanna show us all the names and it's something called character soup, right?
19:05
Like when we, when we just meet everybody, it's hard.
19:08
So you've gotta focus, you've gotta just carefully eliminate what you don't need, right?
19:14
So in this case, I would say her aunt and uncle, right?
19:17
Just because you have so many names and you could remind us of those.
19:21
At some other time, but I would simplify this one.
19:24
Auntie Joan and Uncle Clyde had taught her well to lurk outside of circles, installing herself like a cobweb in the corner.
19:30
I actually really love this too, and I know you came here for advice and I'm telling you what you're doing well, but, but it's actually really good.
19:36
There's so much about this cobweb, you know, there's the catcher metaphor and then the cobweb is literally a catcher of things.
19:44
And so, you know, you're doing a lot of work here, um, which is great.
19:48
I'm not clear on what she wants in this scene by now.
19:51
So here's what I like to say As a broken record, what does your character want?
19:55
Right?
19:55
Uh, do you know what she wants in this scene?
19:58
To be honest, think I, I think she is unsure entirely with sheep.
20:01
She wants to help.
20:03
She wants to show her independence.
20:05
I think of a kind which, and will be able to help, uh, and not have to solely rely on her aunt and uncle, but she also wants to interact with the towns.
20:15
With the, with these two children.
20:16
The first one, Jane, that came in, and she's torn slightly.
20:21
So she's trying to interact but also not interact.
20:24
And I think, okay, so here's the crux of it because I mean, I mean we're coming on here and just looking at one page, so I could be way off base, but here's what I see happening, because if you are okay, the way that we're answering a few of these questions.
20:37
So Una is awkward and you know, has this internal dialogue and is struggling, right?
20:42
It's, that doesn't mean that she doesn't want something.
20:47
That doesn't mean that she doesn't have, it's like when people say, okay, I wanna write an introverted character, and then they write this wallflower who doesn't do anything, and I, they say, it's me.
20:56
It's me.
20:57
And I say, yeah, but you have opinions and thoughts.
20:59
You might not say them out loud.
21:01
You're not going around and instructing people what to do.
21:04
You still make the decision when you decide to sit something out, right?
21:08
So we have inner dialogue here.
21:10
This is what's missing for me in this D If you say, I think you need to decide, especially by chapter three, if we say she's not sure what she wants, the problem is the reader won't be sure either.
21:22
'cause we become her and if we don't want anything, then we don't need it, right?
21:27
And we won't care as much.
21:28
So the reader won't care as much about Una's plight if she doesn't know what she wants.
21:32
I think you really need to choose something, and just so you know, when I say what does your character want to be a good person and to follow the rules.
21:40
Is not enough to carry.
21:42
And I see.
21:42
I wish you could see Stacey's head shaking.
21:44
Yes.
21:45
I know.
21:46
It's not enough to carry a story, so even though you've got all these cool things, we've gotta have a stronger character arc in terms of, or a stronger character motivation in terms of what she wants.
21:57
Otherwise, she's just kind of floating through here.
21:59
So what was missing for me was her inner thoughts or inner dialogue, because she's not trying to do anything, so, which makes her an observer in the scene, and that's a tough place for your character to be in.
22:10
So despite that, all of the cool things would probably carry it, but it'll be a lot stronger if you solve that.
22:17
Does that make sense?
22:18
It does.
22:18
It absolutely does.
22:19
Yeah.
22:19
And brainstorming right now, what I think, yeah, it would.
22:22
Okay.
22:23
So let's brainstorm because we need her to react to this.
22:26
Okay?
22:27
So just close enough to catch kindness and do the first good deed to get the ball rolling.
22:32
So let her react to this.
22:33
Okay?
22:34
It's super important.
22:35
Slow this down, right?
22:37
So she says, I am supposed to not make friends, and I'm trying to do that, but what does she think of that?
22:44
Does she believe it?
22:47
Yes, she does still believe because she is so dedicated to being a kind witch.
22:52
And I think really I, when you ask me the question, what is her purpose?
22:55
I immediately think this is, she wants to make her mark in this town.
23:00
I feel like this is where she thinks there's a lot of problems here.
23:05
I'm going to be the one to, to fix this.
23:07
I can do this.
23:07
I'm gonna show them what I can do.
23:09
And what does, what is the reward there?
23:12
Is it, is it that she's hopeful that she'll finally get her catcher?
23:16
Like, is that how you get it?
23:18
Well, the catcher technically comes to you and or comes to the witch in here, chooses you.
23:23
And so she is just, I think so antsy and, and ready to, to do something.
23:29
She's tired of being the student.
23:31
She's tired of having to kind of let her aunt and uncle take the lead.
23:34
She really wants to make the mark and she's going to try to do it without her catcher.
23:39
And she's just in trouble without doing good deeds all on her own, which kind of adds to the problems that she encounters.
23:46
So I feel her true motivation here is independence, showing that I can do this, I can, she's a very optimistic character as well.
23:55
And so, um, awkwardly optimistic, she's going to just kind of go out and do on her own.
24:02
So I think that is really her motivation.
24:05
And so she's hearing these things that Jane, you know, she's, she's meeting Jane and she's intrigued by her, but she's also trying to think, oh, don't make friends with her because that will ruin your plan to, to really make your mark and to make this town better.
24:18
So I love that you have now a little bit more of her motivation.
24:22
I wanna know what does she want out of that?
24:25
Sure.
24:26
I wanna make my mark.
24:27
What does that mean?
24:28
What does she think that she will get?
24:29
I mean, she's got something to prove.
24:31
She's literally doing it without a catcher.
24:33
But what are the consequences?
24:34
What does she believe will happen if she never gets a catcher?
24:37
Right?
24:38
This is like this, such a great theme for middle grade because.
24:41
I've been through it with all my children.
24:43
And what if I never go through puberty?
24:46
What if I, what if it never arrives?
24:48
What if all the things, what if, right?
24:50
Like, that's such a great thing and I think that this is gonna be really identifiable.
24:54
What if I never get a catcher?
24:56
But what are the consequences?
24:57
Do you know?
24:59
No, actually, I never really, because in her, she even made the statement once that she'd never heard about kind, which she didn't get their catcher.
25:07
And I think she kind of makes the phrase in a, in a roundabout way, I guess they're not a kind witch after all.
25:12
So it's this idea that if you don't get it, you're just not one of them.
25:17
Okay.
25:18
Right.
25:19
So there's, there's something, but yeah, so she might be trying to force that, but also what are the consequences if she fails and doesn't make her mark?
25:27
Right?
25:27
So, so this is where stakes and consequences, stakes and consequences.
25:32
We need to be thinking about that, and she needs to understand that and she needs to articulate it in her thoughts.
25:38
Okay, so for instance, when she's talking about the fact that auntie and uncle tell her she's not allowed to make friends.
25:44
Okay, let her have an opinion.
25:46
So I've got some things brainstormed here, and let's just, I'll just read them out because I wanna show you how different this will make this whole seeing feel.
25:54
Okay?
25:54
It's super important.
25:56
Slow it down with an action, a reaction, or an inner thought, right?
26:00
Something to show us, or more than one thing to show us what it means for her.
26:04
It's that important.
26:05
So some examples.
26:07
So if she said, una dropped her goofy smile, it wouldn't do for her to give Jane the wrong idea.
26:12
She's all business, right?
26:13
Like she's doing something to be like, okay, I'm not going to try to be friends with her, so therefore I'm doing something.
26:20
I'm actioning that, right?
26:22
Not just thinking about it, or Una willed herself to draw her smile against her instinct.
26:27
Jane probably loves swimming and reading and all the things she did, but friendships were not allowed.
26:33
It shows her longing, right?
26:34
Like, these are not great.
26:35
I brainstorm them in 30 seconds.
26:37
You can do better, but you can see how different that is.
26:40
We need to frame it right, or unes smiled at Jane, catching your eye.
26:44
It would feel amazing to talk to someone about, I dunno what X, Y, whatever makes sense in your world, but you could see she's starting to shift or starting to wonder, or being curious about it, right?
26:54
And at middle grade we're very curious about lots of things.
26:58
So what would this forbidden friendship thing be like?
27:02
What would it be like and what's cool about something like that?
27:05
And that transition that you're gonna have her go through, I think is that kids already know what.
27:13
Friendship feels like even if in that moment when you catch them with this book, they're feeling ostracized or, or on the outskirts, they still have had more than one friendship at this point in their lives, hopefully.
27:24
And they, they know what's in store for her and they can already feel that.
27:27
So make sure you're voicing those things.
27:30
Give it some space, because it's not just about, you know, we think about why is this scene here?
27:36
Well, it's here because she's gonna meet the people that are eventually your friends.
27:39
Okay, cool.
27:41
Also on her character arc. What is she thinking?
27:44
What is she wanting?
27:45
How is this going to happen?
27:48
What does she think about it?
27:49
Or what are, what are her stakes real or imagined?
27:54
If she crosses this line and does the things she's not allowed to do.
28:00
I don't know what.
28:02
Right.
28:02
Like I don't know what the consequences are.
28:04
Especially since, in this case, I mean she has an auntie and uncle, or they're not really her auntie and uncle, but we're gonna find out why that is.
28:11
But she has an auntie and uncle, but many kids her age are on their own because they're sort of booted out as soon as they get a catcher.
28:18
So she's kind of lucky.
28:20
But at the same time, I don't know what the discipline's like.
28:23
Right.
28:24
No, and it's, it's actually very welcoming.
28:27
I mean, she actually really likes them, but she and knows in the back of her mind that they're not all gonna be able to stay together anyway, so she doesn't, she kind of keeps, keeps that right kind of contained.
28:38
Like she won't admit that it's, it's family.
28:40
She bumps 'em like family that later on in the story, she really comes to it to realize that because she knows in the back of her mind that they're not supposed to have been together this long anyway.
28:49
So it's, um, oh, and it's a transformation moment for her later on.
28:54
That breaks my hard, because I have, I mean, I'm right at the cusp of empty nest.
28:59
They, like, I've got one kid off to college and one kid graduating as a senior, and then I still have a one that's just entering high school, you know, but, but you can see it coming.
29:08
And the thought that they were never meant to be together.
29:11
And it, it's just, it's a heart wrenching.
29:13
I love it.
29:14
It's such a cool premise.
29:15
Okay.
29:16
So then we start to never close enough to find friends.
29:20
We start to hear, we go into this a bit of backstory, right?
29:23
And I have lots of thoughts on this one because it feels out of place in this moment, but I'll just read it here and then we'll discuss it.
29:30
So.
29:31
When people remember you, it leads to questions about who you are, why you're there.
29:35
They'll look closer.
29:36
They'll see the magic's light.
29:38
Uncle Quiet had warned.
29:39
Nuns must believe the magic of kindness begins in themselves.
29:43
That's how it spreads after all.
29:44
In fact, una never went to a place where another kind witch called for them, and Gran Lizza was the only witch Una had ever heard of who stayed in one place permanently.
29:54
Okay.
29:55
Do we have this information?
29:56
Because I asked you at the beginning of this page, it feels like it, it belongs earlier.
30:02
We do touch on, and definitely the part about granny, granny, we know she is the, the wish cafe actually is her kindness catcher, which comes out and they talk about early on.
30:12
It's real.
30:12
Um, but for some reason she, that is so much more, that is so much more impressive than an empty king queen.
30:19
And so that's why she's the only one who stays put that, that they've ever heard of because her, her actual catcher can't move.
30:25
And so the, the need, and then you kind of come to understand why, why is there a catcher in this town?
30:31
Why is it that important?
30:33
And all that kind of comes out later on in the story.
30:35
But you do learn that bit about granny at the beginning.
30:38
Now, the part about the question you, that's it's touched on lightly at the beginning of the story, but it's more in this chapter, while she's processing these thoughts and talking to these, talking to this child that she's realizing, you know, wait, this is what Uncle Clyde had mentioned about this is.
30:53
So I, I see your point though.
30:55
I should probably address it perhaps a little earlier on.
30:58
Yeah, it's great.
30:59
I would move it earlier on.
31:01
So this is a funny one because I, I really felt mixed things when I was looking at it because it felt so out of place.
31:09
And we do drop into a flashback and you did a great job of bringing us to the moment and you are using showing, however, in this case, it's distracting because you are.
31:20
It's like you're avoiding talking about what una's feelings are about things, right?
31:25
So you're going somewhere else and I'm like, the most interesting thing in this scene.
31:31
Understanding what she thinks and you're skipping back to giving the power or the agency to somebody else and what they think.
31:37
I wish you could see Stacey nodding, but I've rewritten this scene so many times, and honestly, because I feel like I do, I show a lot more in my other chapters and this one just couldn't.
31:46
I just, it just didn't seem quite right and it's so funny that hearing you say that, I'm like, aha, okay, that makes so much more sense.
31:53
And how many times I've rewritten this, I don't think I could have come to that conclusion.
31:57
So you haven't decided.
31:59
Yeah, you haven't decided there's something missing, and so you can write, write it as many times as you want.
32:05
And like I said, this is great showing detail.
32:08
You're bringing us somewhere else when really what you need to solve is why is it important?
32:14
Because if you don't solve this in chapter three, we're not gonna keep reading.
32:18
Right?
32:18
Right.
32:18
Even though it's super cool, we're not gonna feel her pain, we're not gonna feel her wants, we're not gonna want to go on this class, so we need to resolve this.
32:26
But you can do this without leaving the page and still make it pretty showy.
32:32
So here's my suggestion.
32:33
Instead of going back there and giving him the suggestion.
32:37
Try something like she imagined Uncle Clyde's eyes flashing.
32:41
If she dared take Jane home for supper.
32:43
Not to mention that Jane would flee the moment she saw.
32:46
I don't know what's weird or embarrassing about her home.
32:48
Right?
32:48
Bring us to the moment and keep us here.
32:51
She's trying to decide.
32:52
Her co subconscious wants to be friends with Jane, so we don't wanna leave the scene just yet.
32:58
Leave her inner awkwardness.
33:00
Leave her here and thinking the things that we think as young adolescent terrified to make a new friend, especially if it's forbidden, you know, or something better to show us what she thinks.
33:11
Middle grade themes are still where kids fit in relation to their families, which is why I love the theme that you've chosen that she can't stay with them because the kids that are reading this will still feel part of that family unit.
33:25
You know, like that's a big difference in themes that you see in ya, where really.
33:29
They don't kill the parents, get rid of them.
33:32
Right?
33:32
Because, because they need to be on their own.
33:35
But here they're still trying to figure out where they fit within the family unit.
33:38
It's still a very important relationship, even though they're starting to see themselves as separate from their guardians.
33:44
So you've really pushed the limits on that, and I like it.
33:46
But show them this moment.
33:49
She's starting to wonder if, if it's makes sense to follow this.
33:53
The second part of this, this is the most important piece here, right?
33:57
The second part of this, the first P part being her uncle's thoughts on interacting with humans and the second being the danger to them and making sure that your magic works, right?
34:07
So is there a danger to them or being caught out of being identified as the kind and what is that danger like?
34:15
Are they witches that might be burned at the stake?
34:17
I don't know.
34:18
What is the danger?
34:19
I would name it.
34:20
So the danger for them is it's all of their, their, the purpose for them is really just to do this kindness.
34:27
And they've been warned over and over if, if for some reason we don't or their problem don't, that there will be kindness, will not spread.
34:34
And, uh, there's this whole balance in, in the world and they really kind of push that balance to keep the kindness afloat in, in every person, in every town, and all and all around.
34:45
And so Oona, her true belief is if they have any mistakes, all chaos will break loose in the world and they'll just, and it'll be their fault.
34:54
So the actual, she and she even made, they make a comment about how there's never there, the kind witches have always just to made the rules, which is why Oona is going to be the first to officially start to intentionally break the rules.
35:10
So she does have this transition period from right at the beginning.
35:12
She's super into it.
35:14
She's like, this is the way it's always done.
35:15
And she does start to say, why?
35:18
Well, what happens if we don't?
35:19
And this is when she starts to have the friends and all of her idioms start to come true.
35:24
And she's fixing the problems, but she's still, also still wants to keep the breadth.
35:29
And that's when she questions it.
35:31
Cool.
35:31
What?
35:31
What will happen if we break the rules?
35:33
What if we just keep fixing these mistakes?
35:35
These mistakes are normal.
35:37
That, that actually is part of her transformation because they can't come up with a clear answer on it other than, well, the, the problems will keep happening and then she realizes, well, problems happen anyway.
35:48
We can still do kindness and we can still correct our problems.
35:51
So I, that went to that.
35:53
That may not be a correct answer, a straightforward answer to your question.
35:57
No, it's actually perfect.
35:58
I think that I'd encourage you, because again, we're back to this sort of.
36:03
As a collective, the kind must do this and she is one of the kind and therefore, but here's what I would say, she needs to have something deeply personal that she is also trying to do.
36:15
And if she doesn't have that, because that collective, you know, I'm doing this, speak for the good of the human kind, it just isn't strong enough to carry a book.
36:24
It, it's awesome.
36:27
And we often start there, but you've gotta give her something little, even if she changes her mind and then later on, you know, sees a bigger picture.
36:35
At that age, we are, I mean, at any age, humans are selfish, inherently, and we're not going to do something I like to say.
36:42
What is the deeply personal reason your character is willing to go above and beyond what an average person would do or an average kind witch would do in order to get what you want?
36:53
Because she's going to be above average.
36:55
She's not going to be usual.
36:57
So why?
36:59
Right?
36:59
What is it that she wants personally?
37:02
What's in it for her?
37:03
And if there isn't something in it for her, there's not going to be a payoff to your reader because there won't be something in it for them.
37:09
They become her.
37:10
And if it's just to save the world and to strike a balance, I mean, that's huge.
37:15
But then what?
37:16
Like what's it for her?
37:17
And just think about that.
37:18
Right?
37:19
I know we don't want our characters to be selfish, but inherently.
37:22
It makes more sense and it's gonna feel more real.
37:25
Okay.
37:25
So that was the second part, being the danger to the kind witches.
37:29
Right.
37:29
So the second part is the danger to them.
37:32
So what danger is there if they're discovered just that the magic won't work?
37:36
I'm not sure.
37:37
Will they lose it?
37:38
Yeah.
37:39
And so that is the, again, they've said, well this is the way it's always been.
37:42
No one's ever done it and it's just all these warnings.
37:45
But she eventually does start to question.
37:46
But it is the idea that you will lose all of your magic.
37:49
You will not be able to do that.
37:51
But it's all.
37:52
You know what people have told her.
37:54
There's no actual example that she's been able to find of someone who's actually had that happen to them.
37:59
And that's fine, but, but have her start with the assumption that she will lose all her magic and her aunt and knuckle will lose their magic.
38:06
Right.
38:06
And then, and then that can turn out to not be true.
38:09
That's very different like.
38:11
It's very different from having a character lie to us and becoming an unreliable narrator.
38:15
And I've actually explored that.
38:16
It's funny, it ke keeps coming up this month with different writers, but it's very different to misdirect or to if the character believes it's true.
38:25
You've kind of answered the question because otherwise people are gonna say, well, what is gonna happen?
38:28
It's gonna be too obvious, right?
38:30
That really nothing's gonna happen if you don't answer that question.
38:35
So answer it early and answer it often and, and just nip it in the bud, because otherwise readers are gonna keep going and going.
38:40
Well, people are telling her that, but it's pretty obvious, right?
38:43
So you wanna kind of misdirect them into believing that if they are found out that the magic will go away and that they will be stripped of their magic.
38:53
And then, and then what is their place in the world?
38:55
They don't have family.
38:56
They don't have permanent homes, they don't have the things that most of the kids reading this book will have or long for if they don't have.
39:05
They don't have any of that.
39:06
This is all they have.
39:07
Right.
39:08
So think Okay, the last page here, or the last paragraph here I wanna talk about.
39:13
'cause I, I have no idea what this means, but I can't wait to find out.
39:16
Okay.
39:16
In fact, una never went to a place where another kind witch called for them and Granny and Eliza was the only witch Una had ever heard of who stayed in one place per like.
39:24
Okay.
39:25
Now is, I actually have a bit of this backstory 'cause you told me, but this, I'm not sure that this sentence makes sense.
39:31
It probably makes sense in your language, but see if you can work on it.
39:34
Una never went to a place where another kind witch called for them.
39:38
For them.
39:39
Is she, does she use they them pronouns?
39:42
No, she does not.
39:43
Actually.
39:43
She's referring to herself, uncle Clyde and Aunt Joan.
39:46
'cause they've always gone together as a unit, but it's not very queenly stated there.
39:49
So yeah, I think, you know, in lots of ways, like when we're using, so we're using third person close, right?
39:55
We can hear her thoughts and, but it's in third person.
39:59
Keep it in her point of view.
40:01
Singular as much as possible.
40:04
Right.
40:04
And and the reason for that, it's not incorrect to say we or they or whatever it's, I guess it's they 'cause it's not first person, but yeah, number one, yes.
40:14
It could be her pronouns instead of she called for her.
40:17
But also it just waters down the experience that the reader's having.
40:22
'cause we are the person.
40:23
So the deeper that you can stay into that one singular point of view, what is she doing?
40:28
People will say this, I dunno if you've ever interviewed for a job, but people will be like, make sure you tell people what you did and not what collectively as a team did, right?
40:37
I don't know.
40:37
Have you ever given that advice?
40:39
Yeah.
40:39
Yes.
40:40
Actually it's the same thing because it's more impressive.
40:45
It's more interesting.
40:46
It's more focused.
40:47
It's more on what you did.
40:49
It's your agency.
40:51
It's all the same reasons that we do it in a job interview.
40:54
You want your point of view character to be talking about what they are doing and we are only tracking what they are doing.
40:59
I don't really care.
41:01
Yes, I care sort of because they're in control what auntie and uncle are doing.
41:05
But at the same time, I want to be Una.
41:08
I want to be Una right now.
41:11
Yeah, that's great.
41:12
Alright, so in this page I would say.
41:15
It's a lot of her thinking about things and people who aren't here.
41:19
So that's the piece where we're using flashbacks and things.
41:22
I think what's missing is you need to stay in story present and explore that a little bit further.
41:26
You're avoiding it because you haven't answered the questions yet, but you know how important the scene is, which is why it's the scene that you wanted to come on the show and talk about, right.
41:35
So if you can, you know, bring some of these things into the moment and leave her in this uncomfortableness a little bit longer, that's the whole point, right?
41:45
You're talking about, you know, you know what it feels like and, and I also know what, it feels super awkward.
41:50
I think at 50, I'm that same super awkward person in, in certain circumstances.
41:56
I definitely, you know, am the one, the first one to say the pun or whatever, but I try to read the, my brand of humor gonna be understood here.
42:02
I tend to go to a lot of conferences and things so that I can be amongst people who will get me.
42:08
But yeah, leave her in that awkwardness a little bit longer because that's the whole point of your story, right?
42:13
That's the whole character.
42:15
Make her awkward and let her react to these things.
42:18
And I think you're gonna be able to fix the scene pretty fast.
42:21
It might be more than one page.
42:23
No, that's great.
42:24
That's exactly what I needed.
42:25
I, it's funny when you look at something over and over and over again, you just start to see the same thing over and over and over again.
42:31
And so this hor new perspective is incredibly helpful.
42:34
Thank you.
42:35
Well, and I think if you're so welcome and I think, you know, when we do revision, you're right, we're editing what's on the page.
42:41
We don't always take a step back and say, okay, this is the page that isn't working.
42:45
Why isn't it working and what is it like that's missing?
42:48
And that's a lot of the work that happens in like developmental editing really is that sort of big picture and is it all kind of working together.
42:56
And it's the same reason, like I really struggle with, um.
43:01
People ask me about AI and things because AI is often missing things.
43:04
I can't edit something that you send me.
43:06
This is not ai, but I'm not trying to compare it, but I can't edit something with AI because it can't do what you did on this page, which is have all of these specific things that came from your brain.
43:16
In fact, everything is generic.
43:18
In general.
43:18
There's nothing to edit.
43:20
There's nothing to edit.
43:21
It's perfect in its own boring way.
43:23
Right.
43:24
And I think we, that's what happens when we go and revise a scene and we don't take that step back.
43:30
You're trying to apply all the rules without solving that central question that's missing.
43:37
It's going to fall flat.
43:38
Right?
43:39
It's not going to work.
43:40
And so you can make it perfect in its own boring way, right?
43:43
Like, like, not that this is boring, but it is missing.
43:46
It is missing what you want it to have, which is this, it's such an important pivotal scene.
43:51
She starts, it's almost like, if you think of it as, I know it's friendship, but you think of it as a romance.
43:57
It's those early stages of should I, oh, it's forbidden, right?
44:01
Like it's not that different.
44:04
And not to make it weird, but it's not that different.
44:07
From a human perspective and starting a relationship.
44:10
It's that awkward dance.
44:13
Yeah, no, that's, that's exactly what it's missing in most seen, and I'm really excited to go back and edit this one again.
44:20
Well, I'm glad, I hope we lit a fire for you and you were able to, you're able to go after this episode and fix this scene.
44:28
Let us know how it goes.
44:29
I'd love to see.
44:30
Yeah, absolutely.
44:31
I definitely will.
44:32
Thank you.
44:32
I really appreciate this.
44:33
It's been phenomenal.
44:35
Thanks for coming on the show.
44:36
Thank you.
44:43
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44:45
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44:48
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44:54
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45:10
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Submit a page in your current draft for a chance to come on the podcast at the link in the show notes.
45:30
I'd love to chat with you about your writing in my always positive, incredibly supportive way so that you can make great strides towards your writing goals.
45:41
I'm here to cheer you on.
45:43
Remember that book you're writing is gonna open doors that you haven't even thought of yet, and I can't wait to help you make that it the absolute best it can be.
45:53
See you again right here next week.