Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 5 Track 14 - A Dynamic Duo Takes on Brand, Marketing & Entertainment/The Connors
Transcript
- DC: What's happenin' Brand Nerds. We hope y'all are having a fabulous week thus far. We are back at you with another edition of the Brands, Beats, & Bytes podcast and we have a first, we have a first, Brand Nerds, and we're elated to have this first. Also, we have, uh, friends, friends of the family. So here's the first. We've had many various and sundry business executives, entertainment experts, researchers, digital marketing people, entrepreneurs, and they have been phenomenal. But we have never had a tandem of two spouses. We have never had that, who happened to be savant in the game of communications, entertainment, film, commercials, content in general. We've never had that on this show before, LT and Brand Nerds, and we have it today. That's number one. Number two. Friends of the family. Uh, some of you guys, uh, are aware because you listened to the podcasts of the, uh, the work I've been blessed to do, um, in the area of, uh, of marketing and particularly, uh, impacting culture. And one of the examples of the brands that I've worked on, um, is the Sprite brand. And you all know that I cut my teeth in brand management, The Coca-Cola Company, as did Larry, and then later, uh, as did Jeff. But oftentimes, uh, what we don't know, Brand Nerds are some of the people along a journey that's been documented. Um, you may not know who they are. So Brand Nerds. When you all look at any content today, anywhere you are in the world that's being marketed and you hear a hip hop song has the background in the commercials, or you happen to see something that's more advanced culturally, imagistically in a piece of marketing and commercial. I want you to think back also to the guests today because they represented a pivotal, uh, partnership in the marketing of some of The Coca-Cola Company brands. And with that LT, please let the peoples know who's in the building today. LT: Yes, DC as you alluded to, we are so excited to have our first husband and wife Paris guests on the show today. Welcome Sheila and Steve Connor. Steve Connor: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much. Sheila Connor: Thanks for having us. LT: We're, we're really thrilled about this, you guys. And so, uh, for our Brand Nerds, we, uh, now have to share your stellar backgrounds so they know who's, who's in the building, as we like to say, the virtual building with us. So we're gonna start with Sheila. So after earning a degree in International marketing from Baruch College in New York, Sheila joined C&C Storm Films where she has a great run for 14 years ending up as an executive producer, and among many duties as people know who produce man the myriad, you can't even, uh, uh, explain the duties of an ex, uh, of a, of a savant producer. Um, but the highlights include developing strategic alliances with Fortune 500 organizations, managing complex contract negotiations, and successfully casting celebrity talent with the likes of Spike Lee, Mary J Blige, Nia Long, Tyra Banks, and many more. While there are many very successful campaigns that Sheila produces with the likes of Revlon and L'Oreal, there is one campaign that really stands out and that is the incredible Canne Award-winning Budweiser. What's Up Campaign. Eventually Sheila and Steve collaborate to form Fluid, which is a hybrid that offers strategic thinking, brand stewardship, stewardship, creative development, video and content for internet and mobile engagement, marketing and traditional TV production and product design. What makes the shop a true one-of-a-kind is its ability to develop video games, augmented reality, and virtual reality. So this is a good segue to walk you through Steve's incredible background. Steve earns his marketing degree at Syracuse University and then goes to work for Sesame Workshop as a writer and then joins Lancet Media Entertainment, where he works for the Lavar Burton Show, very awesome show, Reading Rainbow. Steve then joins C&C Storm Films where he collaborates with Sheila and others to work on many brands creative, including L'Oreal, JP Morgan Chase, Bally Total Fitness, and of course, as mentioned before, Steve, Sheila and team also develop and produce the famous and award-winning Budweiser Wassup campaign that is award-winning and is nothing short of a cultural sensation. Steve is then tapped by retiring 30 year ad industry veteran who, who we know in this game, folks, Tom Burrell to take over at Burrell Communications. As the Chief Creative Officer and Managing Partner, Steve becomes close counsel to many CMOs at Fortune 500 companies such as Verizon and McDonald's, helping them achieve their corporate vision. Additionally, with Steve's leadership, Burrell sweeps the Mosaic Awards and wins Ad Agents Multicultural Agency of the Year. In addition, the agency's client Verizon wins Ad Age Marketer of the year at the time. So after a stint that draft, FCB as EVP as Group Creative Director for brands such as Jello, Wheat Thins and A1 Steak Sauce, Steve and Sheila, then go to develop Fluid content, which I mentioned earlier. Additionally feels like helping others in humanity is really at the core of both Sheila and Steve. Sheila has worked with the sustainably focused Chicago Gateway Green to help fundraise and generate, revenue in all ways. And she was also the tutoring programming director at an elementary school in Chicago. So Steve has founded two amazing organizations that, of course, she was right there with him helping others. One is the Inplay Foundation, which is the Professional Athletes Foundation for the prevention of childhood obesity, professional athletes, Jenny Finch, Grant Hill, Paul Pierce, and Summer Sanders, plus 32. Others from 15 sports. Sports have joined together and are part of their team that has the goal of providing every kid with a chance to stay healthy and in shape while doing it with fun. And now the second one is really stellar in at the heart of what, um, of, of what, uh, Steve and Sheila are doing right now. It is called the Heph Foundation, where the mission is to help prepare people for life during the fourth Industrial Revolution, Heph develops ideas that tackle emerging challenges and define the many benefits that will come from this new age of technological, social, educational, and economic upheaval. Their current focus is on the future of work and value exchange. As a first step, they have coined the acronym T.E.A.M.S. Which stands for Technology, Engineering, Art, Math and Science. This term redefined STEAM to meet the needs of this new era and that it will take humanity working together to make the unprecedented transition that lays before us. Love that to make it T.E.A.M.S. That's so cool you guys. So DREAM T.E.A.M.S. Dream plus technology, engineering, arts, math and science will pave the way for the future of work and shared value. Welcome to Brands, Beats, and Bytes Sheila and Steve Connor. Steve Connor: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks a lot. That was a mouthful. Mm-hmm. LT: You guys did it all. Steve Connor: I dunno if we've ever said it. Sheila Connor: I know, right? DC: Those, those are your flowers. Larry La Larry is given the flowers and all of it. Is a well earned, earned and deserved. Alright, uh, Sheila, Steve, we go now to the Get Comfy section of our program. Mm-hmm. You all have accomplished something. I dare say not many have. Um, when we met and worked together, um, I was married. I am no longer married. I'm no longer married. Now, my former wife and I, we did not work together. We did not do any work together. Uh, we did some investments, uh, together, but our day-to-day work was not together. And I know, as does my former wife, it is, um, it is work to make a marriage work. Okay. You all have been working together every day for decades. Yeah. Um, now I just, I just want, I just wanna verify here now, are you all still married? Steve Connor: Yes. Yes. LT: You're not now a very solid yes. It sounds like. DC: All right. Okay, Steve, absolutely. About to mess up the whole Get Comfy section. All right. Yeah. Alright. Okay. So thank you, Sheila Thank you. She, so, and you're, and you all are married. Congratulations, by the way. Steve Connor: Thank you. Sheila Connor: Thank you. DC: Congratulations. So, I don't want to get into the time period of marriage or the time period of work unless you all want to do that. But I would like you all to talk about this. What does it take to build a successful business, one that works for you all, and simultaneously build a successful relationship and in this case marriage and have the two not only coexist, but find some symbiotic relationship between the two. We want to know this. LT: Please tell. Sheila Connor: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, some days are challenging, you know, it's those days where you're like, my boss is making me crazy, my coworkers are making me crazy. You know? Mm-hmm. Fortunately, those days we can retreat to our separate corners. Mm. Um, but we, we also, certainly when we started we had very clear lanes. Yeah. Right. Steve Connor: Very much so. Right. And a lot of times I was out when we started our companies and a lot of times I was out at a shooting or, you know, or whatever, and, you know, working with the teams and she was running the business and, and, um, and the operations and the operations. So we were together, but we were, you know, we were mm-hmm. You know, a lot. And I mean, it was always cool because she would come, you know, sometimes on shoots and stuff like that, she'd come in and, and, and a come out. But as an EP you know, she really needed to, you know, be, you know, on point and, uh, you know, at the, at the shop. But, um, to an, to be more po you know, like to be more pointed about your question, uh, respect. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. Respect and respect in people's, just who they are and what they're going through, and then, and then allowing for whatever shifts and changes they want to go through. Mm-hmm. You know? And Sheila Connor: And agreeing that, I mean, we're Team Connor, we say that all the time. Steve Connor: Right. You know, you gotta be that. You gotta know what the angle is. So, so if you know what the goal is and you know where you're going, then all of this is a non, it's not a non-issue. I'm not gonna say it's nothing. Mm-hmm. But it's, it's, you can, you know, there's ups and downs, but you know, the, the, you don't get stuck in the up. You don't get stuck in the down, you know, you get stuck on, we're going this way. Right. And then it's always great to be able to walk away and go, all right, you know, you do your thing for a minute, and then I'll come back here and then we'll, you know, we'll connect. But it's, it's really just allowing people, uh, in our case, just allowing us to be exactly who we are. The other thing that's really interesting is just the, the, the nature of our, you know, of who we are as individuals and a and a, and it's just a, a nice symbiotic blend. Um, we meet somewhere in the middle. Mm-hmm. Um, we both love, you know, strategy we both love. Um mm-hmm. You know, uh, working on things. Um, a lot of people say, you know, oh, Steve's a crazy one. Cause he's coming up with all these crazy, crazy ideas. But, you know, I may come up with an idea, but then I'll look back to her and I'll say, Hey, da da da. What do you think about that? Look away for a second. Go back. And she's already jumped off the building. So it's like, ah, yeah, it's this, it's that. We go like this and we're all kind of, we're going in the same, we're on the same mission. And that, and that's super important. And then re you know, again, respect. Sheila Connor: And then the respect. Yeah. And, and having separate offices. Separate. Cause when we started, remember we were in a, uh, two flat. That's right. And we had two desks that. Faced each other. Steve Connor: Right. Sheila Connor: And we realize, yeah, that wasn't that our work style, just our work styles. Yeah. That wasn't gonna work. That was, yeah. Steve Connor: Yeah. And we wound up, we always had two, like wherever we went, we had a large, you know, we got to grow business, grow business, we'd go on different floors mm-hmm. Different sections of the, you know, a large space. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and do our thing, you know? LT: That's funny. Steve Connor: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's been, it's been a thing. Mm-hmm. But, um, oh, the other thing is humor. DC: Yes. Humor. Steve Connor: Absolutely. Ah, humor. Absolutely humor. DC: You know, though, LT: so it's what you do seriously, but not yourself, seriously. It's kinda Steve Connor: Exactly, exactly. You just can't, you know, you just can't. And, you know, and then understanding that there's seasons, you know, that's, this is, um, these are her words, really. Mm-hmm. You know, and you have to allow for these seasons to go through and then having a very specific date night, bam. So, ah, I know that's all the clues, but that's, you know, that's a lot of it. That's a lot of it. Listening. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Yeah. DC: Cool. Yeah. Alright. Thank you all, uh, Brand Nerds. Listen up now. Listen up. Up. All right. Uh. Steven, uh, and Sheila, we have, uh, a, a sponsor of our show and Larry reads, uh, uh, eloquently a little bit about this sponsor of our show. So, Larry, would you do the honors? LT: I'd be happy to. So, hey, Brand Nerds back here to talk with you about Specificity and Brand Nerds. We know many of you are immersed in digital marketing or simply involved in it. Either way, if you want to optimize your digital marketing to maximize results, we have the solution for you. In 2021, an interesting thing happened that forever changed the landscape of digital marketing. Apple's iOS update was structured to provide users the opportunity to opt out of ads with more than 90% of users opting out. Android quickly followed suit with similar opt out numbers. This situation created complete upheaval for the entire digital marketing infrastructure with engagement rates following precipitously. 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That's S P E C I F I C I T Y I N C.com. Their website is also on our show notes. If you wanna improve your digital marketing results, go check them out. DC: Ma' man.All right, LT. Ready to hit the next section, brother? Let's do it. All right. This next section y'all is called Five Questions. Five Questions. So, uh, Larry and I go back and forth, ask a question each until we get to five. Since we have the two of you, we're gonna split them up. So Steve, I will hit you with questions one and three. Larry, Sheila will hit you with questions two and four, and then you will both be afforded an opportunity to answer question number five. With that, Steve, okay, what was the first experience you had with a brand where it lit your soul a fire? You were into this brand, you love this brand. When you engage with this brand or the experience of this brand, you lost track of time. You thought you'd been doing it for 10 minutes and you look up and two hours have passed. This was just your thing. It did something for you. What was that first brand experience of love for you? Steve Connor: Yeah, that, I mean, that's pretty easy. Um, it would be Disney. Mm. It was the first brand that interesting. Hit me. Um, yeah, cuz you know, um, first of all the movies obviously, but to go to a place to go somewhere else, to mm-hmm. Um, you know, through film and, and music and, and, and art and, you know, just extraordinary. Right. And, um, you know, so from my, from a very early age, just, you know, being bold over the, by that, waiting for the next movie, waiting for the next, um, you know, opportunity to, um, you know, to play with the toys, um, was everything. And then of course that led me to how the heck are they doing that, you know? And, um, mm-hmm. And that led me to animation, right? And, and, and doing, you know, and all from, you know, drawing to animation to stop motion animation and all of these things, and even the technical accomplishments. So that brand in and of itself meant so much to me in my life, you know, when I was a kid and then going forward all the way throughout. It was, you know, it was really everything. And the, and the big kicker, actually, the one, the kicker was going to, um, you know, the magic castle as a kid. Ah, and not being able to, ah, not being able to go inside. You could get, now, now, you know, with Harry Potter and all the other things in Diagon Alley, you can go all the way through all of these things, but when I was a kid, you couldn't go in. It was just a wall. And that really, you know, pissed me off. So my whole thing was how can I figure out how to do that and make it more, uh, you know, so it was meant everything to me. LT: That's really interesting. DC: That's a good one. That's a good one. LT: You know what's cool, D, is that you can see the, the genesis of the incubation, shall we say, of creativity for Steve. That's what it feels like. DC: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Sheila Connor: And you're still building. Steve Connor: Yeah. I mean, it's, again, it's always, Sheila Connor: there's rooms in the castle, right? Steve Connor: I mean, always, always creating something, always kind of like some technology, helping to make this dream come true. And then trying to create this experience that really, in many ways, I'm always build, I'm kind of building, I'm building for others, but so much for my, you know, for myself, you know, and trying to recapture what it felt like to go into, you know, into, uh, a Disney movie or going into, you know, into the, uh, The Haunted Mansion or, you know mm-hmm. Some of these experiences. It just, it meant, you know, it just meant everything. And then going on the back lot, man, you know, so, Yeah. LT: All right. Should we go to question two? DC: Let's do it. LT: All right. So this one's for Sheila. So Sheila, who is had or is having the most influence on your career? Sheila Connor: Um, so I had cousin Diane, who was the belle of the ball. Hmm. She, Southern Bell. She went to University of Alabama. She was the first Black homecoming queen. Mm-hmm. She was in Jet Magazine. She was doing all of the things that were not the traditional path and that excited me. And when I decided to leave college for graduation and move to New York to do my creative thing, Um, it was my cousin Diane, who showed me the road, gave me the roadmap for that, um, gave me the encouragement, gave me the tough love, um, gave me the, the, you know, dried my tears when, um, I realized just how hard it was to be, to be a creative and to, and to do something that was different from everybody else. Um, and not go to college, graduate, get a, get a job, you know? Um, so yeah, she's the one who said, you can do this. Um, here's how I did it. Uh, she was in New York. She, she was in New York acting. LT: Wow. Okay. Sheila Connor: Was he I'll Wow. Introduce you to people. I will give you my, my suggestions and my knowledge. Mm-hmm. And also my couch if you need to sleep. DC: Ah, ah, LT: So I have a quick question. Did you seek out cousin Diana or was it just sort of organic? Sheila Connor: Um, you know what, when I started telling my parents, uh, what I wanted to do instead of finishing school, um, my mom said, well, you should talk to cousin Diane, because she's in New York. Um, and she's doing, you know, she's already on that path. She's already, um, doing, working with Negro Ensemble, Negro Ensemble Company, um, and those kinds of things. She was. LT: That's cool. DC: Yeah. Well, first Black Homecoming queen at the University of Alabama, Alabama's, she, she had something going on. Yeah, she did. She had something going on. All right, I'm gonna go to the next, uh, question here. Now, Brand Nerds, before we hop on and, and, um, talk to one another, um, and then do this for you all. Let's call this on wax. We have a quick chat with our guests just to go over some few, a few logistical things. So today you all didn't hear this, but before we got on, we said okay. In, in this section of, uh, Uh, five questions. Uh, Steve, you're gonna get one in three. And then as I explained up front, then Steve says something, then we said we, well, we're gonna switch it now. So now Sheila will now get question number three and Sheila was like, oh, oh, oh. No, no, no, no, no, no. Question number three should go to Steve cuz he's got a good one. So here is the question Steve, and it gonna be good because... LT: How about that for setup steve, DC: she, Sheila has said she don't wanna touch this question. She don't wanna touch this question. And so, and the question is, Steve, over the course of your illustrious career Yeah. What is your biggest F up and why? Steve Connor: Hmm. Yeah, I mean, you know, there have been several and it continues, you know, that's just part of it. Um, but the biggest one is really ironic, man, you know, cuz. It's happened at the height of our, of one of our greatest accomplishments. You know, we'd just done, uh, what's up? And, uh, and, you know, that was a licensing deal, by the way, you know, that was pretty intense. We, we did that. It was a, it was an in-house, um, uh, uh, contest contests that I did. Mm-hmm. Because it happens right around that time. People were freaking out, clients were pulling all their stuff out of the internet, you know, off, off offline. They were running away from, um, it was a.com boom. Right. And so they're running away from the internet. I was like, you know, there's gotta be a way to show people that this is my, and, um, and it's extremely viable. So what we did is we, we created this contest. I said, all right, everyone, uh, you come up with a point of view, something about your life that you believe, you know, um, to be true. And, uh, and the contest was called True. And then once we found that through line, what that truth was, and you had to create something that would come off of that, that would be, um, You know, um, uh, something that you could share with many, many, many people. And we would then, you know, jump in and, and fund and fund it. So, you know. Okay. Uh, it started with a, you know, ama and I'm just telling this story, just set up a little bit. Um, DC: oh, you're good. You're good. You're good. Steve Connor: Yep. Um, and so, uh, one of the, uh, people working with us, um, uh, Charles Stone, uh, came up with this. He had a bunch of stuff. He kept coming up with stuff and stuff, and I kept looking at stuff. I was like, that's not it. That's not it. That's it. And so finally he came to me with this, uh, this notion about, you know what? I just think that, um, you know, we say stuff and we don't need to say anything at all, and it means something. And so I whittled that down to a strategy. And the strategy was, guys don't have to say anything to say absolutely everything. So true. Right? DC: Ah, okay. Re re repeat that, Steve, repeat that phrase. Steve Connor: So guys don't have to say anything to say absolutely everything. DC: Wow. Steve Connor: So, oh, yeah. And there, and therefore what's up was like, whatever. It was like, it's didn't matter what it was, it was always about the energy and the value between the value exchange, you know, between friends, right. And between your buddies. Yep. You know, and that's what gave birth. And so we created the, you know, Charles, you know, did the three minute film. And, uh, it was, it was, uh, vi went viral. We started putting it around the internet. So we started sharing, sharing it, sharing it, blowing up. We'd get millions of views, millions of people talking about it. And then, um, prior to that, I, uh, we were just, we'd done, um, a couple of spots for, uh, for Bud. Mm-hmm. And, uh, for the Super Bowl, and I, I directed them. So it was a chicken playing, uh, cool baseball and playing pool. Mm-hmm. There's a whole series of funny spots. And so we went back to those guys. We actually did a bidding war between them and Miller. Oh wow. Who actually, um, Who wanted to, uh, you know, to, to pick up this license. And, uh, Budweiser, you know, they just kind of, uh, they, they got it. First of all, they got the idea, Augie and those guys, they totally got it. And then we, um, licensed it to them and D D B B, uh, Needham and produced this insane thing that, you know, everybody knows, you know, what that's all about at this point. Um, and it, you know, it's become part of our lexicon. Okay. So here we are. Super powerful. I couldn't even go out to, there's so many ironies in this thing. I couldn't even go out to the award ceremony because I also, we were not only running a production company, but we were also running an advertising agency at the same time. And that was Sacro, which, wow. The only guy that could do that was like Geraldi or someone like that, but certainly not me. You know, in us. And, but we were doing it and we had two companies. One was called Hot Sauce and one was called, you know, Storm Films and C&C films. And so we had these two things going and I could not reveal who I was on set because then it would've upset some of the clients that I was actually running in my agency and, you know, shooting and shooting spots for at the same time. Right. So that was all that was going on. LT: So they were direct conflict just to let the audience though, right? Steve Connor: Many I had many, I had so many conflicts we could do. Yes. It was insane. Right. And so we're doing all of this stuff. We're blown up, we win Canne, we Gold Lions, everything couldn't go there. I'm just calling up listening to hear what's going on. Right? And then, um, at the same time, I am always pushing the envelope because I'm thinking we've got all this stuff going. We need to start making films, guys, we're gonna start production company beyond that and start going on. And here's where the irony was at the height of all of this happening, of all of this success. Charles winning all this stuff, Sheila winning all this stuff, the company being valued. Um, I'm pushing further and further and further and, uh, I pushed too far, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, we spent too much money and, uh, we had to close, we had to shutter our doors. Mm. Not many people know that. Mm mm We had a lot of employees and a lot of folks, and a lot of jobs on the line actually going, matter of fact, right now, Charles is still angry with me. I didn't think he's, you know, he's not talking to me to be honest. Um, mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, this so many lives, you know, were changed, you know, so we had, uh, you know, we had so many employees, so they, you know, and they had families. And so my ambition, um, outweighed my, um, uh, practicality, practicality. And Sheila wasn't there. Not, yeah, she was there. But again, she's jumping off the thing with me, you know, so we're going, man. So it was very, um, it was painful, right? And we had to, we had to close our doors and we lost, uh, pretty much everything while everybody thought we were winning everything. LT: Wow. Steve Connor: It was pretty desperate situation. Um, so what I learned from that and what we came when I came back, when it came from that, was, um, this understanding that your people are everything. Mm-hmm. And you have to, the people that get you to where you're supposed to be and where you're going and get, and, and have the mission right, and have the ha actually achieving your mission, you have to value them over your, over any goal that you have. You have to value your people. And if you don't, um, you're, you may or may not be able to, you know, have, you know, another, another shot. You know, on goal. Mm-hmm. It's important to keep that in mind. And so that's what we learned from that. Mm-hmm. And ever since then, um, we've always had that conversation whenever we thought we were going too far out on the limb, you know, is this right? Is this gonna keep everybody in safe, you know, out of harm's way and safe, you know? And especially now, Sheila Connor: and you also have to re, you know, have an open dialogue with your team mm-hmm. And say, Hey, we're, you know, these are the plans. Absolutely. This is the risk. Yes. Are you guys in the boat with us? Steve Connor: There it is. If you're going to go as a leader, if you're gonna go hard, then you need to bring everybody together and tell everybody, Hey guys, this is what we're going to, yeah. This, this is the plan. How do you, are you down with this? You know what the, what the stakes are? Can we do it? Should we do it? Should we not? And that was a huge lesson to learn. Um, uh, and, uh, yeah. And so we've been operating that way ever since. And, and interesting enough, when you mentioned teams, you see. That it's manifested itself in a, in a philosophy of life now, uh, you know, for us. So that was a big, a big mess up a lot of lives, you know. Sheila Connor: A lot of relationships. LT: I can't thank you enough for sharing that, you guys, that's a, that's heavy. And uh, as you said, Steve, you use the word ironic here. You having your incredible success, right? And everybody outside world thinks, and then all this stuff's going down. Um, that had to be, oh. Um, and thanks so much for sharing that because your learnings are, are the biggest part. Right. And it, and I, you, you sort sort of said that underneath, but it's the most important thing that you're not gonna make those same mistakes again, right? Steve Connor: Yeah. Truthfully, it is about the learning and failure's fine. And it's actually not failure. It is learn. Literally. It is learning. Exactly. You know? LT: So D, you want to add, add something before you go to the next question before we go? The next question I should say. DC: Yeah, dude. Um, th this is a moment on our show. LT: Yep. DC: On the podcast. So, uh, Steve and Sheila, when we are prepping folks to come on, we talk about, uh, vulnerability and our guest being vulnerable has a direct correlation to the emotional connection that people make to our guests. You all have done this. Yep. When we've had guests on our show who give us an answer to this question number three, and it sounds to us like they are deflecting or someone else, or something else happened and they're not, um, accountable, then we will call them out on that and say, Hey, hey, we, we don't want to hear the things about what other people they wanna know, what you did. Because we want our, uh, we want our Brand Nerds to get the learning. So I applaud you, Steve, for the vulnerability. You too. Um, you too, Sheila. I do have a question here. while you are now giving us this learning of it, it's about the people. Okay? Uh, I worked with you guys and you guys have always been about the people. So you, you have the learning in terms of the business side of it. You guys have always been about the people. Your sets are calm, people are happy. It's true. They're working at their best, even when it's stressful. It's true cuz things gotta get done. You all keep a really positive vibe in the planning of the production as well as the set. So, I know this of you all, you've always been about people. Steve, you've always been about people. Sheila, so Steve to you. Hmm. What was it like at the moment? You knew you had to inform these people you care about? We, we, it, it's over. Yeah, I know. It looks good. It sounds good. It smells good, but it's over. So, first question is that, but what was going through your mind and then when you told them and they reacted to you, what were you feeling and thinking then those two questions? Steve Connor: Right. Well, the first one, um, you know, we were, we were in du in our offices in Dumbo. Mm-hmm. Right. We had, we were 10 J Street, we had 10,000 square feet on the water. You know, we, wow. We'd lived through 9, 9 11 and the blackouts and the blackouts and all the rest of that stuff. So, you know, all those summers. And, uh, so this, these people, and you're right, our sets and our businesses have always been super cool. Mm-hmm. Like super cool, Sheila Connor: and that's intentional, Steve Connor: you know? Mm-hmm. Um, um, you know, but, you know, so, so in any event, yeah. So I, you know, it was just a lot of, a lot of, was a lot of staring out at that water, you know, at three o'clock in the morning, you know, when no was around. And, uh, you know, talking to my buddy Charlie Rice, uh, you guys, I don't know if you know him, but phenomenal, uh, creative, uh, one of my mentors. And, uh, dude, it was just tough. Sheila Connor: Yeah. It, it's, it's family. Yeah. At that point it was family and, Steve Connor: you know, so there was really no way to, you know, and then, and then people like Charles, you know, like, who was my heart, you know? Uh, this is very tough, but, you know, they had to know. And, uh, and then you had to, and then as an exec, you know, as a leader, as leaders, and you gotta make the hard calls. Mm-hmm. And so the hard call was, guys, we gotta shut it down. And so we did, we called 'em together and we, um, we let 'em know and we tried to take care of as many folks as we could, you know, but, um, and their response so that, you know, so extremely difficult, which, you know, but you gotta take on the, you know, you gotta take it on cuz that's why you're, you know, that's, that's the gig, right? Yep. And so, um, uh, and then as far as how they took it, nothing but love except, you know, except for a few folks. Yeah. Because they knew, like you say, they knew our hearts and they knew that we were leaping, you know, we're black people in America trying to create something that does not. Well now it seems to exist, but you gotta realize it was two, 2000, right? 19 in late nineties. 2000, you know, uh, who had a production company. Yeah. You know, maybe Sheldon Levy, maybe one, you know, maybe he was hiring, uh, you know, black agencies. DC: Yeah. Steve Connor: You know, we were reaching for something that was well beyond, uh, what, uh, most people, people could possibly imagine. So they knew that and they supported that. So while as Sheila said, you know, calling folks together prior to, um, yeah, is, is a real important thing for us now, but at the time, I think that they were in the, they knew the spirit of, of what we were doing, and they saw the leaping. I mean, they, you just walked by my office and stuff is popping, you know, stuff is going on. So it's not like they didn't know what was, you know, that, that we were reaching, you know, you know, the fiscal part, you know, hard to say. But, um, yeah, they were, they were, there was a lot of love, you know, thankfully, mostly. Mm-hmm. DC: Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. All right, LT, let's, let's hit the next question. Thank you all very much. LT: Yes. Thank you so much for that. You guys. Okay, so Sheila mm-hmm. Regarding technology and marketing, you, you have really seen the rise of tech through your career. So can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech versus areas that they should be leery? Sheila Connor: Um, so for us, it's made us more efficient. Mm-hmm. You know, which has been great. Right, right. We can do, from our desktop, we can do so much more just right. As a single person, you know, you can just be, do so, get so much more done. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, the one thing is that you won't stop. You know, you just, LT: So true. Sheila Connor: One thing, thing more thing, one more thing, one more thing. Steve Connor: Because you can Right. Sheila Connor: The expectation of others has gone through the roof. Right. You know, so it's like, well of course I can have that in an hour, because you have all of these tools that can, can support you in that. Mm-hmm. Um, the, the, the challenge for me has been delegation, you know, and being able to hand things off to people and expecting them to just run with it. Steve Connor: Are you saying you were one of those people that was actually expecting to be better because they had the technology? Cuz you've got Sheila Connor: Yes, yes. You have the technology. You should be able be able to do this so much better. Steve Connor: Interesting. How you can play both sides of the coin compressor. Sheila Connor: Even though their tech, the technology exists, you still need to mine your people. Mm-hmm. You still need to, um, um, prepare them. Teach 'em, you Yeah. You still need to walk the road with them. Yeah. Um, so technology doesn't shortcut that communication process, you know? Um, a lot of the people that we work with are outside of the, you know, they're in other states, they're in other countries. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, but it's still important to kind of roll it back and, and speak to them like they're in my office. Mm-hmm. You know, and take them through the steps. Like they are in my office. Steve Connor: Right. So the techn technology doesn't get in the way of the human component. Sheila Connor: Exactly. Mm-hmm. Steve Connor: We cannot lose humanity. We can't. Right. We can't. Sheila Connor: We can't. And, and I see that a lot, especially, um, some of our team members. They think everybody should be available, you know? Uh, they should be, you know, available for Zoom, available for a phone call. But remember when we were in offices? Yeah. We stepped away to the water cooler, right? DC: Yep. Sheila Connor: Yeah. We stepped away to the, the break room. Mm-hmm. We chit chatted with the receptionist. We weren't always available. LT: So true. Sheila Connor: And I see, I see. Our, that would be the top, but I see some of our team forgetting that, you know, so I, the humanity piece is huge for me, both with my team and also reminding myself of it. Steve Connor: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's everything. I mean, yeah. Yeah. That's LT: love that you guys. Sheila Connor: Yeah. Yeah. The humanity team's great. Yeah. And even as I, AI is coming in, right? Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, that's something we talk about and struggle with as well, you know. Yeah. Steve Connor: We got a lot of artists crying, you know, a lot of people crying about what's going on. Cause we work with a lot of just straight up artists and, and creators, arts and creators, and just trying to figure that. So technology's not just a thing of, um, you know, uh, getting things done. It's not just a thing of, oh, how do we, how do we manage the humanity? It's also how do we manage, um, moving forward as a, in this case, as a species. You know, what does that mean? You know, what does that mean to you as an individual and how can we help support folks? Right. And retrain you. Yeah. And retrain, and then just get you ready for, we're not sure what's coming. Right. What is, what is impact coming? Mm-hmm. So as a whole, you know, it's, we're this is the one of the most transformative times in your history. LT: No question. Steve Connor: And if you are at the helm of something, then it's your responsibility to prepare yourself. Mm-hmm. You know, um, you know, and your people, your team, and your team for what's coming. Mm-hmm. As best you can. LT: Mm-hmm. That's deep D. DC: That is, that is, uh, final question. This is to both of you all. Mm-hmm. Uh, Sheila and Steve, what are you most proud of? Steve Connor: Proud of? Yeah. I mean, look, you mentioned Heph in the beginning. Mm-hmm. Uh, that is it. We feel that our entire lives, all of our, everything Sheila Connor: that we've got, experience, the challenges, the, the success, the failures. Steve Connor: Yeah. And I mean, everything, even, you know, our own family has led us to this point in time where we can be of value to humanity. Mm-hmm. You know, it's one thing to mm-hmm. Help a brand, uh, reimagine itself. Grow, um, you know, find, you know, new opportunities, new opportunities, blue ocean, what have you, what you know, it's one thing to do all of that. And that's, and that's fantastic. But what about using on, and especially if you're at the top of your game and you can do it for anybody in like, in a heartbeat, like in one minute of time sitting with any executive at any level, we could sit down and give them something that would give them double digit growth. We can do it. We've done it right for years. So what happens when you have that kind of skillset? You start looking around, or we started looking around for, um, who really needed that. And when we look around our, around the world, we look around our country, all we see is pain. Right? And so, you know, it's, it's your respon. If you've been given gifts and you've given, been given some power, then you gotta figure out, you gotta, you have to decide how are you going to use that mm-hmm. To, to, um, to help, you know? And um, so, and you know, I look at Elon Musk a lot, you know, listen to him a lot. And, um, looking forward to meeting him. Um, And he talks about the intractable problems, you know, and going after those. And from our perspective, the intractable problem was, was, um, people being caught in roles that they, they didn't need to be caught in, you know, roles that actually defined them and, and, and held them down. So all these ties that, that kind of bound them to you are this, you are a girl, you're going to be doing this, you're a person of color, you're gonna be doing this. You're a young white guy, you're gonna be doing this. This is, these are the roles that society has played, you know, has, has decided for you. And we play those roles, right? And that's fine. Um, however, beneath the roles, um, is a human being. There's Dan and there's Susan, and, you know, and there's Jamal and, and this individual that has a particular value that they give to others, and they've been giving that value to others since probably before they were 10 years old. Right? And so to connect people with that, And then help them architect their, you know, their, uh, Well find their archetype, right? And then help them architect a brand or an experience or something that they want to do to give value and then connect them to their tribe, to the people. That's what get from, from our perspective, that was like everything. Mm-hmm. So how can we help people become more fulfilled in their lives and the best brands, the brands that we've worked for that have, you know, that have, uh, where it's really worked out, they've been the ones that have gone deep into who they are as individuals or who the team is that's running the business, or start the founders that started the business. Mm-hmm. And they've, and they've taken that formula, that beauty between all of them. And that's what, uh, the brand embodies. Right. Sheila Connor: And that's the value that they give. Steve Connor: Right. Exactly. So how can we do that for individuals that are ailing because they're caught in roles that they don't need to be in, and because of the internet, because of technology, they can actually step out and quantum leap into some whole other life. Hmm. They could be much more fulfilled and fulfilled, you know, other folks. So, so we started, um, Heph to do that. And it's funny cuz it started for us, it started with, you know, with our, our little boy best son, you know, because we felt education was the thing. If you could unlock them early, then actually throughout their life, Heph is for, you know, K to 12 and then and and beyond. Because we were kind of doing this in our, in our businesses as well, like you said about the people. We always had these amazing training programs and internships and, you know, and we would, um, you know, we would constantly do that. But when, uh, you know, as, as everything was shifting with technology, um, we thought, you know, this, here's, here's a beat, here's a thing that we can at where we can actually apply some value. And um, and it became really, um, obvious when our son, our baby boy comes home and he is like Sheila Connor: in middle school and he comes home and he says, I hate math. And I don't like science. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Steve Connor: And that's insane because we're a family that has a lab in the, I mean, you know, like we live in the lab, we make stuff, we build computers, write programs, build robots, whatever it is, build camera systems, whatever we need to do to get, you know, to create, yeah. To get the job done and create some magic. And, uh, for him to come home and, and say, that was like, what? You know, like total disconnect. DC: That must What you talking about Willis? Talking about Willis? Sheila Connor: Yeah, exactly. Steve Connor: So we did that, man, we sat down, we, we first, we listened. Right? Sheila Connor: Because he was very specific about what he didn't like. Mm-hmm. Or what he hated. Okay. Okay. So we said, okay, let's flip it. What is it that you like? What is it that you enjoy? We'll start with that. DC: Ah, okay. Right. Okay. Sheila Connor: And that was building things and cars. Steve Connor: Yeah, anything fast, really. Mm-hmm. And, um, and then we went down to, okay, so what, you know, down to this personal value, like, so what is it that your friends, what value do you give your friends? And, and when we found out he was, he's really like an every man. If you were gonna look at a, uh, you know, a classical archetype, uh, a youngian archetype. And, uh, he's, uh, and because of that, he's giving in, in, in groups of people. So we were like, all right, let's, let's help him connect those dots by just allowing him to play. And for years, that's all we did. We just followed him around wherever he wanted to go, that was involved with his passion point. We found ourselves. Sheila Connor: We supported that. Steve Connor: Yeah. We were in Italy checking out cars there, we went over to Japan and we were checking out robots and China, China electronics, you know, and, you know, we created a play pen for him that where we just became playful participants. Mm-hmm. In his journey. And, um, you know, and, and he blossomed. And he actually, out of that, he actually gave Burr to a brand, it's called Takis which is, um, says, you know, it's his speed. Mm-hmm. And, um, and Latin, right? And uh, and now he's growing a Brandon and this brand is for car enthusiasts. And, and uh, and uh, his thing is it's for folks that beyond car enthusiasts, it's for folks that like to get lost, lost in the drift, you know, ah, as he says, ok. And it's kinda dope, you know? Um, so it's really exciting for him. So, so from there it was like, okay, after, you know, he's growing his brand, he went up to school. He is studying engineering and marketing. Um, we, we looked around and we thought, okay, so let's see if we can help more people, Sheila Connor: because our kid represented all of his, pretty much all of DC: the kids, many, many, many kids. LT: What's your son's name? Steve Connor: His name is Stone. DC: Stone. Okay. Steve Connor: Stone Connor. Yeah. Thanks Stone. Okay. Alright. Stone. LT: Connor Stone was in impetus for a lot going on. DC: That's awesome. Yeah. Anyone who can do all of that coming from, I don't like math and now it's doing all of these things that are mathematically based, that, that's pretty remarkable. And, and I can certainly see, I'm a father of three daughters. Uh, Jeff's a father of, uh, four children, um, three sons and a daughter. Larry is the, uh, is the, is the father of a son. We, we could see how that would have you all brimming with, with, with pride. Definitely. Can, definitely can relate to that. Definitely can relate to that. Absolutely. Sheila Connor: Yeah. Steve Connor: He's just, he's just hitting it. Yeah. Definitely can DC: relate to that. Sheila Connor: What's really cool is that he finds the math and the science in all of the things that he's doing now. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and talks about it and is gleeful about it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Even Steve Connor: in his music. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, when he is doing stuff and, and everything. Sheila Connor: Right. The sign waves and music and Steve Connor: Yeah. He's really, it's really fascinating to watch him, uh, create his future. Um, and, uh, man, we packaged all that up and created Heph now Heph is short for Hefestus, who was the God that made tools for the gods. DC: Okay. Steve Connor: And that's where they came from. Right. And so we realized as we started going out, we, we, we basically created a program that allowed, um, learners to have an extraordinary amount of fun, like a playpen of fun. And it's like the circus comes to town and while they're doing, having all that fun, um, they learn. Mm-hmm. Um, it is, uh, and it's, it's really funny because when we're. Marketing people. You know, we, we start with what's the problem? What's the Strat, what's the insight? What's the strategy? Mm-hmm. You know, what's the idea? So we're very pointed about how we go about these things. So, but when people see it, and especially early on, they just see, oh my, that's just so much fun. They're having too much fun. They can't possibly be learning. But of course, baked into all that is, oh, this is the specific um, standard. Standard that they, uh, you know, that they we're hitting or standards. Mm-hmm. Generally it's a list of standards that, that this curriculum is hitting. Yeah. Um mm-hmm. You know, Sheila Connor: uh, these are the educational outcomes that the teacher has said we need to have in this, this curriculum. Steve Connor: Right. So we created this pro and ma and so, so we've got at the moment, like 15 different curriculums. Um, and it's cross-curricular, right. It's cross, uh, cross discipl, cross discipline, cross-discipline rather. And, um, Sheila Connor: which is how people learn, right. We don't just learn in silos. Math has, yeah. History math has reading. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Steve Connor: So all of these readings, uh, big, really huge. And so what happens is, man, they, they, um, uh, we started out in the summer, I think we started doing summer school, summer camps. Mm-hmm. And then, and then we slowly started going towards the schools and got into middle schools and high schools and creating bridge programs between the two. Um, it's been, it is our great honor, you know, to do this work. Mm-hmm. Um, we started the foundation because we knew that a lot of folks couldn't necessarily afford this type of, um, this type of, um, experience or learning experience. Um, so we need, we knew that we needed to be able to help have, have people that maybe believe the same thing that we believed. Mm-hmm. Um, help donate and, you know, and make it possible. And so now we're really proud to say that we're working on, you know, on the south and west side of Chicago, in some rural communities in North and South Carolina. Um, you know, and, um, and then also, you know, working our way towards Appalachia. So it's, uh, it's, it is an exciting, uh, next step. You know, for us it's, it's kind of done. We're doing what we've always done to a degree, but just doing it for, um, a, a, a greater and higher, LT: greater good. So, um, so Steven, Sheila, that's amazing stuff. I'm so glad you shared all that. Um, uh, we're gonna shift to what's popping, but before we do that, uh, can you let the Brand Nerds know, uh, is there any place that they can donate or learn more? And we could put it in the show notes of course. But it, uh, you know, as far as our website goes? Sheila Connor: Absolutely. Our website is Heph, and that's Hephfoundation.org. You can donate, you can buy our merch in the store, and you can also, um, uh, sponsor a school. A student. Wow. A class. Steve Connor: Yeah. Yeah. We, yeah. We need an army. Y'all, for real. LT: Very cool. Well, we'll, we'll put that in the show notes. That's, that's, I'm so glad you shared that information. Mm-hmm. Okay. So now, now we're gonna ship to the next segment. And that's what's popping. What's popping? D DC: What's popping? LT: So Sheila and Steve, this is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply air, something happening in around marketing today we, that we think is good fodder for discussion. And Steve, you started in our prep with something and we cut you off because it sounded really cool. So do you want to take the mic and, uh, Steve Connor: you know what, you know, what I think is popping right now? I think honesty and, and, and transparency. I think that that is what's popping because we've been so far in this direction, quite frankly, because of AI is really gonna get cra it's really getting crazy. But I think, you know, um, people running around saying, look, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna give you the truth. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna not sell Sheila Connor: the de influencing, Steve Connor: de influencing even the influence. You're talking about it, I'm gonna influence, don't follow me necessarily. I'm just gonna talk about this. I'm gonna be your friend, but don't follow me for that. I think that's extraordinary. It gets us back to being human. It's what we need. LT: So san's the day of Instagram post showing, um, me at the coolest place in the, with with the, the coolest dish food and everything. And, but we all know that that's not real life. That's, you know, that's just, uh, a small microcosm of what people are doing, so, right. And he, Steve Connor: and here's the thing, I don't know that everybody knows it's not real life. That's the scary thing. That's that's right. You know, if you're really good at it, they don't. That's right. You know, and that's, you know, that's the scary part. So the fact that p folks are are, are taking a stand and saying, you know, no, we're gonna actually, you know, dial it back and go the other way, man, humanity needs a big boost of that, you know? And, and so excited that that's what's going on right now. LT: So can you talk more about who, where is that going on? Because that's a new pH. I, I, I love that. But, um, if you could share more about that, that would be great. Sheila Connor: Yeah, I mean, if you are on Instagram, the de influencing, um, is, is popular there. Uh, there are influencers who are saying, no, you don't need to go to this latest sale and buy a bunch of things and have, and show me a haul. You don't need to buy all of these beauty products. Um, and you don't need to buy everything that I'm suggesting. Uh, you know, we, we, we need to think about sustainability. Um, we need to think about fast fashion and what that's doing to our country and our, and the earth. Um, so maybe we need to just put a pin in some things and, and take a breather and not have all of this consumerism. Steve Connor: Right? And we're seeing, uh, truly we're seeing it across all, every single platform. Um, the most of the influencers are, are going in this direction, and we, and it's just exciting to see, um, it, it doesn't take much as take a poke in and you, you actually see 'em, you know, doing it, you know, and going backwards. Sheila Connor: And it's, it's really not surprising, right? Because we went so far this way with the manufactured look and, and, and everything having, um, uh, you know, my feed being so perfect that it's not surprising that now people are saying, Hey, wait a minute, maybe we, we need to swing back the other direction. Right? Right. All right. Steve Connor: So yeah. It's, it's good. And the fact that you may not see it is maybe a good thing because it is one of those things that's kind of bubbling up. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Um, which we love and we love these trends. Right. Anything you can kind of catch onto or listen and find as it's coming up, um, is, is always wonderful. I mean, and we do that, like, we're constantly scouring for like, okay, so what is, you know, um, what's in the street? And, um, uh, you know, what's the new conversation? Mm-hmm. Sheila Connor: What's the next thing that's popping as you guys put in? Steve Connor: Yeah. LT: Well, well thanks for, uh, thanks for sharing that with us. Uh, uh, here's, hoping that that spreads even more like wildfire. That's where I come from on that. Steve Connor: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. LT: Should we, should we get to our close? DC: Let's do it. Let's do it. LT: Hey, Sheila and Steve, you guys have been great. Um, we, we thought you'd be great and we can't thank you enough for, uh, For really also being vulnerable and sharing a, a lot about Heph and, and, uh, your careers. It's been awesome. Um, so this is a, I'm gonna share a few learnings here and, uh, I'm gonna make them, uh, concise. Uh, what Sheila and Steve Brand Nerds really do is they put people first in everything they do. Mm-hmm. That's like Team connor as, as, uh, Sheila alluded to before. Mm-hmm. That's the way they conduct themselves and even when we asked about technology, they brought it back to humanity. DC: They did. LT: Right. Which I thought was so cool. So, so Brand Nerds, it's about the people. Your as, as they said, your pe, your people are everything. And what that means by I interpret your people, that's all the people in your sphere, everyone you interact with. So respect should be at the core of that, and you have to really value them over everything. And also about communication. You need to over communicate with people, and that goes with business and life. The more you communicate, the more you keep people, uh, in touch and involved with what's going on. I think the cleaner we all live our lives. Um, and so, you know, it's all about that. And then the last thing, I think it's so cool that Sheila and Steve have pivoted to focus on Heph because that's really gonna make a difference. Guess what, with people. So those are the learnings, which are, are, are incredibly deep. And the ones that, uh, that I really take away from Sheila and Steve. So thank you. Uh, d you're up DC: LT, those are substantive. Um, Steve and Sheila, if you've heard any of our shows, you w you may be familiar with, uh, as. Larry and I do this, um, I try to get a sense of the, the humans, um, before me. And, um, I listen intently, uh, not only to what you say, but to what you, what you mean. And I've tried to do that here today throughout the entirety of this podcast. And, um, what I really yearn to do, crave to do, strive to do is to understand the uniqueness of the humans before me. Like of the 7 billion plus people, what makes these folks unique in my view. Now, I'm not the arbiter of uniqueness. I do not in any way. LT: You're not you sure? DC: I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. But I have noticed something in the two of you. There's a sign, uh, that has a name. The sign is Ampersand, and this is the, and sign the shorthand for, and ampersand, uh, as a word, has Latin roots, and it means and per se. And that's what it, that's what it means in Latin. Mm-hmm. Also in Latin, uh, the shorthand for the word emper, Sam is et e t. Mm-hmm. E and the, the actual sign, the symbol for ampersand is an E, and then it goes up and like that. And that's the T It's actually the E and the T coming together. Mm-hmm. That is how we got the symbol called ampersand from the, uh, from the Latin word et e t. Right. Um, so, and you all are a husband and wife. Your company was called C&C. Mm-hmm. You were one of the first people of color or anywhere to do an agency and a production company. When you talked about the insight of the promotion that led to what's up, it was the fact that guys don't have to say anything and they can say everything by not saying anything. That then led you to the What's Up campaign, where you experienced meteoric success and epic learning. Not epic failure and epic learning, right? So you go from doing all of this stuff, awards, camp Lions, all of these people calling you wanna work with you and the shuttering of your doors. And then finally you talked about your learning from that experience. And he said it's about ambition and practicality. I believe you all are the living embodiment in our sphere of humanity, of the amper sand. You're the living embodiment of, and that's what you all are. You show, you've shown that to the world. And I'll close with this, you said Steve, um, you know, I. You can get a shot on goal and you might miss it, and you don't know when you're gonna get another or if you're gonna get another shot on goal. So I'm gonna say this to you. It is possible Steve and Sheila to have a shot on goal and miss it and get something back bigger. And here's what I think happened with you all during that time. During that time, you took a shot on goal. It's a big shot, and you missed the goal that you thought was the goal, but what you ended up hitting was the universe and like Brother Steve Jobs rest in peace. You dented the universe. Mm, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's my learning from you all. LT: How about that Sheila and Steve? Steve Connor: Thank you. Sheila Connor: That's deep. Now I'm blown away. Thank Steve Connor: Wow, man. Thanks. LT: Yeah. Thank you all. Thank you. Yes. I think DC did an incredible job of, uh, how he puts these together. I'll never know, DC: but it's really, I don't know either. I, I, I don't have any idea either. I, I have no idea. No clue. LT: B, before we sign off, uh, Sheila and Steve, anything that you want to add from what you learned from our wonderful conversation today? Steve Connor: no. Um, I don't think so. I think we covered so much ground. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. We did covered so much ground. Um, no, just thanks. Thanks for the conversation. You know, it's very seldom that we get the opportunity to, uh, you know, it's always the, what people see. Um, so it's very, um, You know, the, the stuff that actually makes it all happen is seldom, you know, kind of talked about. Yep. And we're, and we're not exactly the most, um, vocal about that vocal about what we do. You know, we do the work, we get the work done, and, and we have these missions. So the idea of, you know, just sitting with y'all and, um, and you're, you know, asking really, you know, wonderful questions, pointed questions, and just having the conversation in that insane close. Thank you. You know, thanks so much. Yeah. Yeah. Really appreciate it. LT: We appreciate you using our space, uh, to share your incredible learnings and what you've accomplished with our Brand Nerds. So, um, we thank you. So with that, we're going to close. Thanks for listening to the Brands, Beats and Bytes recorded virtually on zoom and a production of KZSU Stanford, 90.1 FM radio worldwide at kzsu.org. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, myself, Larry Taman, Joseph Anderson, Jade Tate, Hailey Cobbin, and Tom Dioro. DC: The Podfather. LT: And if you are listening to us via podcast, it would be great if you can please rate and review us. Additionally, if you do like the show, please subscribe and share. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. And we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing with another great business leader as our guest.