Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 1: Bodie Johnson

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My Favorite Things Episode 1: Bodie Johnson · My Favorite Things

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to My Favorite Things, Bodie Johnson.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Brendan.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are as a person?
• 0:10
  I think I would answer that more recently is I'm a guy who's
• 0:14
  trying to chase joy.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: My old mentor has brought that very face forward into me.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been amazing.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: that's been really present recently in the last couple of years.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a dad who's trying to chase joy at all times.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: As mentioned, I'm a father.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to be the best husband I can be.
• 0:33
  And I think also answering that more recently,
• 0:36
  I'm a person who loves their job.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I may not be the needle in the haystack necessarily,
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: maybe amongst you because I know that you love what you do too.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I've been taking a lot of pride in that I love my job.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, 21 days out of 22 kind of a scenario.
• 0:53
  And I don't even know what my job is half the time because my
• 0:59
  days are so fun.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a hurricane of fun that happens around.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: But mostly I manage musicians.
• 1:05
  I run an artist management company out of Denver called Back 40
• 1:09
  Management.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I have five musicians, artists.
• 1:12
  that allow me to join them in their company to help run their
• 1:15
  business and produce
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: art and,
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: commodify or exploit art in a very safe way to our friends,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: to their friends,
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: to the fans that don't know them yet.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a staff that helps me do that.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And in addition to that,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I also run a music supervision company,
• 1:34
  which in another word is sort of doing the licensing and song
• 1:38
  exploration to make
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: soundtracks for films,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: commercials,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera.
• 1:43
  I also do that with my crew here in Denver,
• 1:46
  and that is called Big Drop Music.
• 1:49
  And that's how we met,
• 1:50
  was getting a song for a film that I had a budget for.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you met me.
• 1:57
  I met you because I've been stalking your Friday emails for
• 2:01
  years prior and your
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Instagram for years prior.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I've met you without your acknowledgement.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's parasocial, yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So as you know,
• 2:13
  the concept for this podcast is you bring a list of five of
• 2:19
  your favorite creative
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: works throughout your life,
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: music,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: movies,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: books,
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: whatever.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very broad definition.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to talk about them.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Lay it on me.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, Paul Simon's Graceland album.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: When did you encounter this and why is it important?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I encountered, I remember the first time my mom played this.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up on a farm outside of Greeley, Colorado.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And in the 80s,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: there was not that much vinyl present in my life,
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: but my mom had this huge system because that's how they were back then.
• 3:00
  And I remember on the weekends,
• 3:02
  we'd be playing around the house doing chores and stuff.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a few artists that she would consistently play.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Soundtrack to Dances with Wolves.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: probably some Scottish songs here and there or whatever.
• 3:13
  And then I also remember Beatles and then more specifically the
• 3:16
  first time that the
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: needle hit on Graceland,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Paul Simon.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was one of the first albums I can remember,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: which I think formed the foundation to how I attack music now.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: is I remember not wanting to skip one song.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I know there's the whole concept of now no skips.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Some of my favorite artists still,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily want to listen to every single song on the album.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And Graceland was that first for me when Boy in the Bubble came on.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then all through the album,
• 3:49
  I got frustrated when the album was over and I brought a lot of
• 3:53
  joy that the album
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: was restarted when she played that.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the exact year on that.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I know that it was probably in 87 or 88,
• 4:01
  give or take that there was a year lapse or something that when
• 4:07
  that album was made
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: and it came out into production.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: But that album to me formed what I love in life.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's still my favorite artist, Paul Simon.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could go through each track.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've spent many hours,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: not that I'm a musicologist by any means,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a fan of him,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: but I've seen countless documentaries,
• 4:30
  podcasts from professors at Emory about poetry that talked
• 4:35
  about Graceland and
• 4:37
  trying to extrapolate the meaning of what they think Paul Simon
• 4:41
  was talking about.
• 4:42
  I've heard versions of Graceland,
• 4:45
  the album and the song in Paul Simon's own words.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've been able to see him.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned,
• 4:50
  I even got to know Art Garfunkel's catalog a bit and got to see
• 4:56
  him in a studio
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: session,
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: given some of the perks that happened with my job,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: given he wasn't directly related to Graceland,
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: but how could he not be?
• 5:04
  With Tom and Joey,
• 5:05
  the original band,
• 5:06
  prior to Paul Simon going out and doing his work solo.
• 5:11
  What I love about the album as a whole is just that,
• 5:15
  what it did for me in my youth.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: But then as I become a manager,
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: as I become a father,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 44 years old now,
• 5:24
  I start to realize that how you can judge art or what is the
• 5:29
  point of judging art.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And bear with me for a second,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: but people might come to me more recently and be like,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: you're an artist manager.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about Dochi?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about Taylor and Travis?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like...
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's art.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's no different.
• 5:45
  Because I'm a manager,
• 5:47
  am I supposed to have a better idea of what a good piece of art
• 5:50
  is?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've painted before,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: do I then get to tell you why Jackson Pollock is brilliant or just spots?
• 5:58
  I don't care anymore as long as fans react to it and fans are
• 6:03
  happy with it.
• 6:04
  And why am I put in a position to be able to tell somebody that
• 6:08
  art is better than not?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is art.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And now when I look at that back about Paul Simon and Graceland,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: what it's done for me,
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: if I am going to be a hypocrite to my previous statement,
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I find even more beauty about it now than I did back in the day.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because back in the day when I was born in 81,
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: if I heard the album when I'm approximately eight years old or so,
• 6:33
  I'm not having the understanding of what Graceland is or the
• 6:36
  metaphors that he's bringing in.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand what's going on in South Africa.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: When he went to record with handfuls of musicians in South Africa,
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: he brought it back to studios in America.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then he composed the writing on top of that.
• 6:54
  And now you're mixing New York City culture,
• 6:58
  Paul Simon's upbringing,
• 6:59
  his art.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: South African politics, musicians, this is all coming to a head here.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: None of that is registering for me.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm a young guy, I just like music because it makes me feel good.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: It just made me feel great to hear all these different sounds.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea where they're coming from,
• 7:21
  but all I know is they're coming from these speakers on a farm
• 7:24
  and from this white
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: guy named Paul Simon.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And now when I'm older and watching these documentaries,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: hearing from the different parties involved,
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: hearing some of the critiques involved,
• 7:35
  about why it was made and how frustrated they might've been
• 7:37
  that a white guy came
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: into South Africa during a very tenuous time to say the least.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's a lot of beauty in that.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: and,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: and yeah,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: as a father or now,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: like if I'm going to study the different versions of why that,
• 7:52
  why those songs came to be and what Paul Simon was aiming for
• 7:56
  when he says,
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: let's focus on the song Graceland.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: what he was specifically focusing on.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't Elvis.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it was Elvis,
• 8:06
  but there's a lot of meanings to Graceland that Paul has let us
• 8:08
  know that this
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: isn't about specifically one location.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is much bigger than that.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So Graceland is a greater metaphor.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: So now it has grown on me in different ways, and I love it.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: It hits me.
• 8:22
  I listened to it a little bit this morning in prep for this,
• 8:25
  just for fun.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: made me smile.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then my favorite song,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Diamonds on the soles of her shoes came up and the,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: the writing content from top to bottom still,
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: it still makes me,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: it makes me beam,
• 8:38
  have the same reaction that I remember that I had before I was
• 8:41
  a teenager.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's still,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: music gods doing what they do best in here,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: which is just,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: cross pollinating cultures,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: music time.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's timeless.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's hit me.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it hits me every day.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: When you press play on it and you hear the first few,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: let's say the first 30 seconds of Boy in the Bubble,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: what do you see in your head when you press play now?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do I have synesthesia, you know?
• 9:11
  Well,
• 9:12
  I mean,
• 9:13
  that's one thing,
• 9:14
  but I'm thinking,
• 9:14
  like,
• 9:14
  is it a memory,
• 9:16
  you know?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: It used to be.
• 9:18
  So I remember my house on the farm was this quaint abode in the
• 9:23
  middle of 2000
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: acres of fields and 600 cattle.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember the shag carpet.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I remember the smell of the stereo.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I remember,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know what it was at the time,
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: but there was like this dry eraser,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: and I smelled that and I found out it was,
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: it cleaned vinyl,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: but I had no idea if I'm seven or eight,
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: what's going on here.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember our house.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: I remember the light coming through the windows.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember all those things and that's,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Arguably for almost any song that has made an impact on my life,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: which are thousands,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I may not even remember the artist or the song title sometimes,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: but I can tell you the first time I heard that song.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know right where I was at when I heard Counting Crows' Sullivan Street,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: some of these bigger songs throughout high school,
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: and my Rusted Root,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: my Whitesword Panics as I'm growing up,
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: my Mannheim Steamrollers,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know right where I was at this entire time.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Same with Paul Simon,
• 10:22
  I'm just in the house getting ready to go do something but I
• 10:24
  remember running
• 10:26
  around our very tiny living room on that farm and the speakers
• 10:31
  in my mind took up a
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: fourth of the room.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: kind of scenario.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And now when I listen to it,
• 10:38
  my mind goes into no different than when I hear Peter Gabriel
• 10:41
  sledgehammer in your
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: eyes.
• 10:44
  My mind goes into,
• 10:45
  I'm trying to imagine the production that was happening with
• 10:48
  that song.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because one thing that I love about some of my favorite albums,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: including Peter Gabriel songs,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Nine Inch Nails,
• 10:56
  some of the reasons I'm appreciating these are the mass amounts
• 10:58
  of production,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: no different than
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know, what was going on with the Beatles.
• 11:02
  But again,
• 11:03
  Graceland,
• 11:04
  the production on that is so thick and watching the
• 11:07
  documentaries.
• 11:07
  I'm remembering now when they were reversing some of the licks
• 11:11
  to make You Can Call
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Me Al,
• 11:13
  when they were taking a lot of the musicians that were recorded
• 11:16
  in South Africa,
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: bringing some of them back to New York,
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: trying to lay down new tracks and watching just like creative happen,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: creative happenings happen.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how music can happen like that.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I deal with that a lot with my artists now, and nobody has a set plan.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, maybe the gods back then did too, and they didn't.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're just trying to create.
• 11:40
  And that brings me,
• 11:41
  not to keep using this word too much,
• 11:43
  but it's present in my life right now.
• 11:46
  That brings me a lot of joy to think now,
• 11:49
  not only how it hits me,
• 11:51
  but how it relates to my job.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that back then they were still doing that.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're just trying to figure out art.
• 11:58
  that's what i do i commodify art for a living and i mentioned
• 12:02
  it earlier is that
• 12:04
  wrong no it is because i think again some of those words can
• 12:10
  have a negative
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: context on them but if i'm i remember uh two ad agents that i watched on
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: masterclass they were saying we exploit the truth of the product because
• 12:20
  exploitation has a negative term to it at times but not if
• 12:24
  you're exploiting the
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: truth of the product
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're just trying to bring the essence,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: the truth of that art forward,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: no different than they did,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:35
  Warner did with Graceland back in the day who distributed it
• 12:38
  and made it into a
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: vinyl that changed my life and millions of others.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great, I'm glad and proud that somebody did that back then.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: That Paul Simon led that charge.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: That my artists are doing that on a daily basis too.
• 12:55
  Yeah,
• 12:55
  can you imagine being in the room when one of those moments
• 12:57
  happened?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And just being like, this is good, isn't it?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And looking around at other people going, that was incredible, wasn't it?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: That just happened?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not all too often in the studio.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was most recently,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: not most recently,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: but a year and some ago,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was with one of my artists,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Langhorne Slim,
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: and we're in Peter Frampton's studio.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just like...
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: The guitar's hanging there,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: and my artist is,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: excuse me,
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: my artist,
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: but my business partner,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: my friend Langhorne,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sean,
• 13:33
  is recording his new art in these areas with different
• 13:39
  engineers that are doing
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: what I have no idea what they're doing.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know what they're doing.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to do what they do.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then watching them come back out from the recording studio,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: and they're coming out to the board,
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: the soundboard to relisten to what was just recorded.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then there they go.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: They sit with his son,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: his wife around,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: two other musicians,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: and then they rework a chorus in a matter of seconds.
• 14:03
  And here I am trying to figure out what Excel sheet looks the
• 14:06
  best and column B.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then here he is creating something completely from scratch.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then they go back in and lay harmonies and new art.
• 14:17
  Watching that as a wallflower is so crazy to me because I'm not
• 14:23
  an artist.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I love watching what artists can do and how they create.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that was my piece of like,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: gosh,
• 14:31
  imagine if I would have been in either of those studios up in
• 14:34
  New York or South
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Africa when they're just trying to figure stuff out and have fun.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:41
  yeah okay moving along okay okay number two this is a movie
• 14:48
  called alone in the
• 14:49
  wilderness and you this is not a famous this is not a super
• 14:53
  famous film maybe just
• 14:55
  to some people but can you just kind of explain a little bit
• 14:59
  about it the premise
• 15:00
  of the film and then your first memory of seeing it how old you
• 15:04
  were and where you
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: were
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Growing up on the farm, we don't have cable back then.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: You walk up to the TV and you turn your PBS.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: My father was a farmer.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: He loved camping.
• 15:19
  He was great building,
• 15:22
  constructing with his hands,
• 15:24
  you know,
• 15:24
  jack of all trades.
• 15:26
  And around middle school,
• 15:29
  there was a show on PBS,
• 15:31
  Alone in the Wilderness.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it featured this old man who,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: when I initially absorbed it,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I thought he was just an adventurer,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: an old man who wanted to go live by himself.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea that he was a married man.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: He had children, but apparently I may not get this exactly correct.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: because I don't remember the full backstory of why this film was made,
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: but he needed to go find himself.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: He was at a place in his life and he's an older gentleman.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: He went to remote Alaska with no tools or electricity.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: He only used hand tools and he,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: started from the land,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: found his location and he built this two spec,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: beautiful dialed in cabin that could seemingly last the ages.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then he built elevated food storage sheds.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: He doing all this with hand tools blew my mind.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now watching this as a younger kid, none of that's really hitting me.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: But what I remember, first time seeing it is like,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's just exploring.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful scenario to explore.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sorry I'm at a little bit of loss for words on this,
• 16:50
  but it hit me in a greater sense because of what happened later
• 16:54
  of like inspired my
• 16:56
  dad and my best friend's dad to go build a miniature version of
• 16:59
  this just to see if
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: they could in our backyard.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they got logs.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: They used a few electronic tools.
• 17:06
  just to figure out how to plane the wood correctly and build
• 17:09
  like a three foot by
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: two foot version of this log cabin in our backyard.
• 17:14
  And then I started noticing as I got older,
• 17:18
  my dad gave me the DVD he had found.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it was originally out on PBS.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I believe his sons put it out on a DVD.
• 17:26
  And it almost became like this lullaby at night when I was in
• 17:30
  high school and couldn't sleep.
• 17:31
  I would go play this after a night of partying or a soccer game
• 17:34
  or something.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just watch this gentleman build in the Alaska wilderness.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't just building.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: He took out one of those old-school VHS,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: put it on a tripod,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: and pressed play and filmed his daily life.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: He would go fishing.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: He would crush berries to make jam.
• 17:52
  Every couple months,
• 17:54
  a plane would fly in and drop off socks and a couple other
• 17:57
  necessities.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: But really, when you're watching him carve...
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: the hinges out of wood for his cabin and making proper cement
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: so that his handmade fireplace can work.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: How beautiful can this get?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Would I do that now?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would do that exact thing now.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And by exact,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would mean I would bring in my iPad,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: and I would make sure that I had my music there,
• 18:25
  and I would make sure that I had enough batteries and solar
• 18:28
  chargers for my version
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: of that.
• 18:31
  But this was happening when somebody was just trying to make
• 18:34
  life much more simple.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: and go hunting and live off the land.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not fully.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: He could always resort to not.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it was just my first glimpse into like, men are pretty powerful and
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And creative.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we can do this.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And life can be much more simple.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you can still get a lot of enjoyment out of that.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And now I have his book, Prenicke.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Dick Prenicke.
• 18:59
  My dad took my brother and I in Fort Collins a few years later
• 19:03
  to listen to a speech.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: from him and about his experience with that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Still didn't land in time more of an adult.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I always loved the film.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's on YouTube now.
• 19:15
  There's different versions of it because they've done a couple
• 19:17
  follow-ups.
• 19:18
  So you have to look a little bit to find part one and part two
• 19:21
  of the original
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: film,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Alone in the Wilderness.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's how it hit me.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: We have a cabin now.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't grow up with a lot of money.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: My dad purchased a cabin
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: years later when I was out of college because it was in the mountains.
• 19:39
  It's now essentially in between lions on the peak to peak
• 19:42
  highway in that area.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the cabin existed.
• 19:46
  It was an original hunter's cabin from the early 1900s that
• 19:50
  some lady in the
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: fifties and sixties turned into sort of a house.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: It has electricity, no running water.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when my dad and mom purchased it,
• 20:00
  we stripped it all and we found that from the the core of the
• 20:05
  bones of the house
• 20:05
  were just rotted and my dad and me but mostly my dad spent
• 20:11
  years taking that house
• 20:14
  the cabin down to bones and now it's just a simple cabin wood
• 20:18
  on the exterior
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: interior top to bottom
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: wood-burning fireplace,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: electricity,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: no running water other than the creek in the backyard and the St.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Vrain River across the street.
• 20:30
  And then what I found out even later is I didn't know that it
• 20:33
  was from this,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: but just what my father had instilled in me,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: which all relates back to this Alone in the Wilderness,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I used a garage in Denver and major power tools and planning,
• 20:44
  but my friend and I built an eight by 10 foot little annex
• 20:47
  house and we built the
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: walls in Denver and hauled them up to my cabin area.
• 20:53
  And my dad had leveled the land no different than alone in the
• 20:56
  wilderness.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we put,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: prefabricated foundation pieces on there so it could still be moved,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: but it's not into the ground.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we built an eight by 10 foot little annex house with a queen bed,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: a loft and a climbing wall for my kids to get up there.
• 21:11
  And it has a porch and a rocking chair now and it sits right
• 21:14
  behind my cabin.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: in my mind,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: all of that stems back from that,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: back to the cabin,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: back to Dick Predicke's cabin that he built alone in the wilderness.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Those are all tied together in my mind and in my heart.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, both these first two things are things that just keep sticking.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: They're still in your life in very visible ways, it sounds like.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not like, I remember this thing.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever thought or considered,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this is even possible,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: trying to go visit the original Dick Prenicke cabin?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know if it's even still...
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's still here.
• 21:53
  I've heard it is because we have looked online to find out the
• 21:56
  location and we
• 21:57
  started to spy a while ago the lakes that he was pulling some
• 22:00
  of those grayling
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: fish out of that he was feeding off of.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't.
• 22:06
  I have friends in Anchorage and in Fairbanks now that know
• 22:11
  about this and we
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: haven't ever brought it up.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great idea.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to see if it's visitable.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a way less popular Chris McCannless green bus, you know.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: People were going to that.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you like the old guy version of that, Dick Prenicke.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: But no different than that,
• 22:32
  my brother saw it alone in the wilderness and he wanted to then
• 22:35
  visit Chris
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: McCandless' original bus,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: which he did.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: It took him several days in Alaska before they had moved it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know they hauled it out via helicopter.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: When I was in high school,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: he was in college and he and a buddy that was in Anchorage,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: they went out and visited and spent a couple nights in that bus.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:55
  Before everything big had happened and no one cared the bus was
• 22:59
  out there.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Number three.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this is,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I like this one because it's like a,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: when I first started thinking about this idea,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: people will bring books,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: movies,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: whatever.
• 23:13
  And this one is a photo that it's a photo of you and you're,
• 23:19
  you explain it actually.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you explain the photo?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's a photo of my wife and I.
• 23:24
  I would say almost a decade before we really had eyes for each
• 23:30
  other and decided
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: that maybe we were compatible.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: My wife and I used to work at a summer camp.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: She was a backpacking guide and I was the ropes course dude.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we were just friends and years later,
• 23:45
  we started dating and we eventually got married and now we have
• 23:48
  two children and we
• 23:49
  were looking at old photos and i not really remember taking
• 23:53
  this photo but it was
• 23:54
  at the sunrise on mount blue sky what was then mount evans and
• 23:59
  in the mornings we
• 23:59
  would take kids up campers up to the summit of or just yeah of
• 24:05
  mount blue sky and
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: we would watch the sunrise come over essentially denver
• 24:10
  And someone had snapped this photo of us and defined it over a
• 24:15
  decade later in
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: piles of photos when we're cleaning out our houses and moving.
• 24:20
  And here's my wife and I looking completely happy while we were
• 24:22
  both probably
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: dating other people at the time.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is probably back in 2001, 2002 summer.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I got to interrupt here.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: People who are listening to this will not be able to see this photo,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: but you guys are pretty close here.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: You like almost touch it.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Your heads are touching.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: It looks like you're like hugging her from behind.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is this just friendly?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at it right now, too.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it is.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I flirt with people.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I flirt with you.
• 24:51
  I think it's fun to engage with people and figure out their
• 24:53
  personalities.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking at this on the other screen right now.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Had you not known we were a couple in this photo,
• 25:03
  there was not one moment that we decided or even I would
• 25:06
  guarantee speaking for her
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: that we thought about dating one another and
• 25:10
  while we were in college,
• 25:11
  you know,
• 25:12
  guiding,
• 25:13
  guiding campers in the Colorado mountains.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And which, which really surprises me.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is why it's one of my favorite pieces.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like this looks like we should have been together so long ago.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: This looks like this should be my wife.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you would have asked me between 2001 and 2009,
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: like what's going on with her or who do you think you're going to marry?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine her name would have ever come across.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then immediately,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: a few years after that,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: after she had left Colorado,
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: she had gone to PA school in Atlanta.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then she had moved back to Colorado.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was working at an ad agency with my now brother-in-law,
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: but the gentleman dating her little sister.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like...
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: we should all hang out.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: She's back.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I had no idea that my wife was into biking, into fly fishing.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: She'd grown up a fly fisher person.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Future wife at this point.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so when he was like, we should all go to Ray LaMontagne together.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you're going.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what a place for a great date.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite artists of all time,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: but probably not the scenario for the most happiest of songs,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And here we are at Rayla Montaigne.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: First time in history,
• 26:23
  I'm not focusing on one of my favorite artists and I'm getting
• 26:26
  to know this girl
• 26:27
  that I had been friends with a decade prior and learning all
• 26:32
  these cool things
• 26:33
  about her that when I'm in college didn't come across and that
• 26:36
  she was an avid road
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: biker and doing these crazy endurance runs.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then also was fly fishing in Montana.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And how much commonalities did we miss back then?
• 26:47
  And she had just moved back to Colorado and then everything
• 26:49
  fast forwarded from there.
• 26:50
  And now because of Paul Simon and Brittany Howard and all these
• 26:54
  other great
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: concerts we've seen,
• 26:56
  we have kids and friends and this entire community built around
• 26:59
  her work and my
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: work.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, have you talked to Sarah about this photo recently?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Does she have the same memory that you do of the whole timeline?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now I will.
• 27:11
  I know that her parents and my parents and me poked fun at us
• 27:14
  because this picture,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: now it's covered with a child,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: with children.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I have the same frame here.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And hers is right behind it just with an updated photo now.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:28
  But I know that her parents and my parents made fun of this
• 27:31
  photo of like,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: no one recognizes this photo.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: No one knows what's going on here.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is pretty face forward.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, no recollection who took it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was on my camera, my old 35 millimeter.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it was printed out when you found it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:53
  Because that's what I would do back in college is take tons of
• 27:55
  photos with my 35
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: and you just delete the doubles physically.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: So then you find it.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Explain the finding of it years later then.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Are you guys both moving out of houses to move in together?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I had a place in Boulder.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: She had one in Denver.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm moving into Denver to work as an artist manager.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I have this huge, almost like an army or military case.
• 28:24
  And in it is just you stack your photos to the edges to keep
• 28:29
  that 90 degree.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how the stack of photos can stay put.
• 28:32
  And then you smash CDs and like is a random assortment of like
• 28:37
  your yesteryears that you forget.
• 28:40
  and i just wanted to start compiling and being more efficient
• 28:43
  with space and i
• 28:44
  brought out all these photos and i started looking through camp
• 28:47
  like this was not
• 28:47
  in a photo book this is one amongst 400 photos of my high
• 28:53
  school and my high school
• 28:54
  through college timeline and then all of a sudden i'm moving in
• 28:59
  with this gal we're
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: moving to a new place and i'm cleaning up and i come across this i'm like
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: John Cusack's Serendipity.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: How cheesy are those things when I'm younger?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Things like that don't exist.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: This Is 40 is the dumbest movie ever.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's not real life at all.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Until you're 40 years old,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: working in the music industry,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: having a real life with your wife and kids and having a parent.
• 29:26
  So I'm like,
• 29:26
  man,
• 29:27
  Judd Apatow created a documentary here with a comedy aura.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing fake about This Is 40.
• 29:34
  like no different than this serendipity and this photo existing
• 29:38
  like of course it
• 29:40
  should have happened that way and it should only make you laugh
• 29:43
  like so when you
• 29:45
  found it where did you would you just like you just show it to
• 29:47
  sarah like hey look
• 29:48
  at these immediately yeah yeah and then i i recall i could be
• 29:52
  off but as i recall
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: my parents come down often for dinner
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I showed them this immediately too.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like we just have fun.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is that we found this.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it just became like a lighthearted joke at that point.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Again,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: of everybody pointing fingers saying like,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: like you guys should have known,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: but we didn't.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm speaking of her too.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's no,
• 30:10
  no reason that she thought she was going to end up with me
• 30:12
  during that photo
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: timeline.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like we did not have eyes for each other.
• 30:16
  We were just working being buddies and then fast forward 10
• 30:19
  years and everything
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: 180 in the best of ways.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you think that was good for you?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like she actually encountered a wiser, maybe more mature version of you?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: There was no reason anybody should have ended up with me when I was 23.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still immature.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I still like,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: we could go on that for a whole other podcast,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: there's no reason I was husband material at age 23.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea what I wanted.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had puka shell necklace, you know, hidden underneath the photo.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's just like, Oh, that's not in the photo though.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: But like, yeah, I still get ribbed for that left and right.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was a thing back then.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was fine.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hot topic by puka shell necklace.
• 31:06
  I'm still trying to find my ground,
• 31:07
  but it's much more firm than it used to be.
• 31:11
  So the existence of that one chronologically works out in our
• 31:17
  timeline here.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it coming back in is jumping forward a little bit.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: So number four, there are two items from Shaky Graves.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do – should we do the song first?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: We should do the song first because we're going into exact chronology.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we might be cheating by the five, but this is 4A and 4B.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: 4A then.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So as I'm moving in with Sarah,
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: my wife,
• 31:49
  we used to throw these house concerts and it was just to bring
• 31:53
  friends together.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: I come from a lot of the background that you do,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Brennan,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: of like just bringing community,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of athletes,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: creatives,
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: people that inspire me,
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: no different than probably any other person.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I would start to,
• 32:06
  I would say hunt these cool musicians that maybe had a Sunday
• 32:11
  night or a Monday
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: night off.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I would have like Gregory Allen Isikoff or Nathaniel Rateliff,
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Joe Pug,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: these amazing musicians come through my house just to play with friends.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know what I was doing.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would just give them whatever my friends would donate at the door.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we would just have a great time together.
• 32:28
  And my first big concert that changed my life moving in with
• 32:32
  Sarah right after this
• 32:33
  photo was discovered was we had this artist from Austin named
• 32:38
  Shaky Graves come and
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: play our house in front of I think maybe like 48,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: 49 people.
• 32:44
  And fast forward a year after the first house concert that he
• 32:50
  did in front of my friends and I,
• 32:52
  I started getting more deeper into management and being able to
• 32:55
  maybe look at my
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: own artists and building up my own resume and clientele.
• 33:00
  And he came back to me and he was like,
• 33:02
  his name,
• 33:03
  I call him Alejandro or Ollie.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people call him shaky or shaky graves.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, I just can't control my business life anymore.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's too many emails.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: He knows that he needs some help.
• 33:15
  And that's where a manager often can come in is to help you
• 33:18
  build out your team,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: understand how your art,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: the Venn diagram can work and intersect with commerce.
• 33:24
  and try and build a career out of what maybe songs that he
• 33:27
  might have written just
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: because he needed to.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: No different than typical artists.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: They don't create this with an intention of selling immediately.
• 33:36
  They create it because they're an artist and that's what they
• 33:38
  were born to do.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: He is no different than that.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when we decided to work together,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: we flew him in,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: my old boss,
• 33:46
  and I flew him in and we played a show at the High Dive in
• 33:49
  Broadway in Denver.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a free show,
• 33:54
  but hundreds of people had paid the small ticket fee to reserve
• 33:58
  a free ticket to go
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: there.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: So he immediately sold out his free show at the High Dive.
• 34:03
  And that night we went out to Don's Tavern on 6th and we had a
• 34:08
  couple of drinks and
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: we decided to work together.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And later that evening,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: about one or two in the morning,
• 34:13
  he had brought out these demos that he brought on his phone and
• 34:19
  he played the song
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: called Only Son.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the song that he sent me,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: that I had sent you to listen to,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: is no different than what I explained with Langhorne Slim earlier.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is just a demo of an idea that he has.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Very lo-fi, a lot of hand claps and thigh slaps and basic percussion.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: His friend is singing background.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this song hit me.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was stopped in my tracks.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had already decided to work with him based upon his personality,
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: the friendship that we were building,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: his catalog that I had already listened to.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, he dumps this bomb on me that stops my heart.
• 35:01
  And the next song he played that I didn't send you was this
• 35:04
  song called Family and Genius.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: But both of these songs were on his album called And the War Came,
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: which is just over 10 years old now.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the moment that song was done, I was mad.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was mad at him.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I had a tear in my eye.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he knew he was looking at me.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the only thing that we could do is play the song over again.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And part of me was like, why do you want to listen to your own songs?
• 35:29
  But one thing I appreciate about the musicians and friends I
• 35:32
  have in that world is
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: half the time they don't.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: If they're doing a podcast, they do not want to re-listen to it again.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: They've heard their voice enough.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: But he was so proud of this creation and this direction.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not positive,
• 35:46
  but I'm very confident that he appreciated the value that I saw
• 35:51
  in his heart too.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what it did to me the first time.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I looked like, I can imagine.
• 35:56
  But I think he saw what it was doing to me and how it was
• 35:59
  impacting me immediately.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we played it no less than four times that night.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then he's like, I got one more for you.
• 36:08
  And then he played Family and Genius,
• 36:11
  which did the same thing,
• 36:12
  Deer and Headlights.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And back to my mentor who recently passed, this gentleman right here.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: He taught me to chase joy and...
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: He taught one of my other friends,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: like if you aim for their wallet,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to miss by a mile.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: But if you aim for their heart, that's the right way to do it.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And when I've had troubled times in my career,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to navigate an artist and be like,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: is this artist right for my portfolio?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is it correct for my business?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Can I see this artist selling out Red Rocks in four years?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do I have an exact plan?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of benefit.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: to how my job operates that does that.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is the artist that I've had a lot of success with,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: it's because I fucking love their music.
• 36:56
  And because when I need to do a chore or work for them at 1130
• 37:00
  at night while I'd
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: rather be sleeping,
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: it's not really a chore.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's when I don't want to go to work.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really have that feeling that often.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: I got up today.
• 37:11
  Saw my kids off to school and I got excited to go to my office
• 37:14
  because I get to
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: work with musicians who scare the shit out of me,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: challenge me.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to do the same thing every day.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And their art inspires me.
• 37:25
  I don't have an artist now that I don't love their music and
• 37:28
  what they do.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Shakey taught me that.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: He was the first client I had.
• 37:33
  or I'll call it business partner I had that I was like,
• 37:37
  I love exploiting you to my friends.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, exploit?
• 37:40
  You mean share their songs with friends because I think what
• 37:42
  their song does to me is amazing.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to move them the same way.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like call that exploitation and I'll be guilty of that every day.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I love sharing his music and I love sharing my artist's music.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that song allowed me to start working with him.
• 37:57
  And I couldn't wait for that song to find its maturity and to
• 38:01
  end up on Spotify or
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: a vinyl or a CD.
• 38:05
  And it took a year and some for that song to find its way out
• 38:08
  into public.
• 38:09
  And now every single time he plays Only Son or Family and
• 38:12
  Genius,
• 38:14
  it moves me.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the crowd gets shook.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody is quiet.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Not because he's asking them to, because it mandates that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you... I was going to say, does he have the same...
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: sort of bond with you?
• 38:30
  Like,
• 38:30
  have you,
• 38:31
  have you been backstage or off to the side of the stage when he
• 38:34
  plays it live?
• 38:35
  And do you guys like wink at each other or like,
• 38:37
  is there any sort of moment like that?
• 38:39
  Or is it just kind of like you're having your,
• 38:41
  your moment off to the side?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's no wink.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have my moment,
• 38:45
  but what's beautiful about him amongst many things is that when
• 38:51
  he comes off stage
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: at the end of a show,
• 38:54
  he and I both know if he's had a great show and it's no
• 38:56
  different than people
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: expect artists to have a 10 out of a 10 show all the time.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I went out for a trail run yesterday and I just could not get,
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: or two days ago,
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: I could not get my body moving.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have an off day.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe no one else notices.
• 39:12
  I looked at my Strava when I was done with my bike ride last
• 39:15
  week that I felt slow.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I was off by 45 seconds.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: And bringing that back to him,
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Shaky knows when he has a 10 out of a 10 show,
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: a nine out of a 10 show.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Does the audience?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not because he's a professional.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: When he thinks he's had a six out of 10 show,
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: maybe the audience noticed you had a 9.8,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: But he knows.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when...
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: When he comes off the stage,
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even need to tell him that he's played one of my favorite songs.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: He'll make fun of me and be like, I know that you like that set list.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's your kind of a set list.
• 39:49
  He didn't make it for me by any means,
• 39:51
  but that's what he chose to present to the audience.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or more likely, it's what he chose that he felt that night.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's one of the few ones that doesn't often do a set list,
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: which is great and sometimes not so great.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing why he captivates people every night
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: is he put it much more eloquently than I am back to you.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: But some fans, when they ask, what do you want to hear tonight?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And fans say their favorite songs.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I don't want to do that.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And part of me is like, oh, Jesus.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: But part of me,
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: one time he got in a dialogue with the fan and he was like,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: you don't go out to dinner every night and order a hamburger every night,
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: do you?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, no.
• 40:29
  And he's like,
• 40:30
  well,
• 40:31
  I don't want to play a hamburger every night kind of a
• 40:33
  scenario.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I took it.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I want to give you some variety.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to give you what I'm feeling.
• 40:37
  And that goes into the bigger concept of like,
• 40:40
  do you play the hits every night?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you play what you feel like playing?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: And as a fan, sometimes I'm like, give me the hits.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Paul McCartney a couple weeks ago.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Give me wings.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Give me Paul McCartney.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Give me Beatles.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then he played a couple deep cuts.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, good for you, man.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, now I'm on the same train as Shaky is on.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I paid to see your ride, you know?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to entertain me how you feel like I should be entertained.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Give me what you're feeling.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Give me some B-sides.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm going to be okay with that nowadays.
• 41:14
  But if you ask me tomorrow,
• 41:15
  I'm going to be mad that I didn't get all the hits sometimes,
• 41:17
  too.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: When I saw Nine Inch Nails out of my few times I've seen them,
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: and the one time they didn't play closer,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: huh.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, good for you.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Got me.
• 41:29
  Can you imagine like being somebody like the Rolling Stones
• 41:31
  who's been touring for
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: 150 years and like how many times they've played,
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: let's just say I can't get no satisfaction.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 41:39
  How that must feel for like,
• 41:41
  they wrote this when they were like 20 something or whatever.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're like, what are we like?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Six decades of playing this song together.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: I just imagine that must be a very interesting feeling.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Be like, I guess we're doing it.
• 41:53
  I want to know how many times artists like that have played
• 41:56
  because I've asked shaky.
• 41:57
  How many times have you played dearly departed or maybe
• 42:00
  something from one of his
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: earlier albums?
• 42:01
  Like that's like a late July or a song called roll the bones
• 42:05
  that are almost
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: staples at every show.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
• 42:09
  a thousand doesn't even start to scratch it when you're
• 42:11
  thinking about demos and
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: rehearsals and then,
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 42:16
  the sound checks it shows and then he does you know between 60
• 42:20
  and 95 shows a year
• 42:21
  or when he was younger he was doing 120 shows a year like these
• 42:25
  numbers add up and
• 42:26
  then you add 40 some years to that when you have mick jagger
• 42:30
  doing satisfaction
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: like yeah
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: And do I get mad at them if they don't play that song?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Not anymore.
• 42:36
  Like,
• 42:36
  man,
• 42:36
  I don't love looking at poems or pictures I've written years
• 42:41
  ago.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you have to be like,
• 42:44
  does that artist love that song they wrote when they were going
• 42:47
  through something
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: or when they were in their young 20s and now they might not be?
• 42:51
  how must that feel because they have the meaning no different
• 42:54
  than jeff tweedy
• 42:55
  talking about wilco's history i'm like what is selling out a
• 42:59
  song he's like does
• 43:00
  this does the does the meaning of the song change because it
• 43:03
  was placed in a
• 43:04
  commercial that you didn't like or in a movie that you didn't
• 43:06
  like the song i wrote
• 43:07
  the song decades before that this you changed the meaning of
• 43:11
  the song i didn't yeah
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: and i bring that back to the artist it's like
• 43:17
  How hard must or must not it be to play these songs over and
• 43:20
  over again when that
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: song,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: they wrote that song during a stage of their life,
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: but I received it at this stage.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Who has the real meaning?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's part of the beauty of it.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: It must be fascinating to think like that sort of thing,
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: to think about the interaction between an older artist and being like,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 43:42
  looking out in the crowd and everybody's the same age as they
• 43:45
  are roughly.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, yep, I wrote this song when we were all 23.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:52
  And was I married an appropriate husband at 23,
• 43:57
  according to that photo we were talking about?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was confused.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's why the song was so great.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do the second thing.
• 44:08
  So I will not be able to link to the actual mix that you have
• 44:13
  of that Shaky Graves
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: song of Only Son,
• 44:14
  but we'll just link to something like a YouTube video of it or
• 44:18
  something like that
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: so people can listen to it.
• 44:20
  um second thing 4b um we're already breaking the rules here but
• 44:25
  um thank you for
• 44:26
  breaking the rules for me what is the what is the second thing
• 44:29
  4b is a calvin and
• 44:30
  hobbs i'm one of the probably few people my wife even made fun
• 44:34
  of me but like i've
• 44:34
  never watched calvin and hobbs comics opened a book when i was
• 44:38
  younger i never
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: understood them and shaky brought this out i
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he does dozens of interviews a month at times.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes these people ask him these random questions like,
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: give me what's inspiring you,
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: no different than this.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: And not to get too nerdery here, but I'm deep into astronomy.
• 44:59
  We just went to Crestone last week and just stared at the stars
• 45:03
  for quite a while.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And this comic strip, Shaky put out in one of his interviews years ago.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it hit me so hard, having never seen Calvin and Hobbes.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: But basically,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: if people are not watching the piece right now,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: he's staring out into the universe.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this is just a few snapshots of the bigger comic role.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: But he's just shouting into the universe, like, I'm significant.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Scream the dust of speck.
• 45:33
  And this hits me no different than bringing my wife into the
• 45:36
  conversation,
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: my old mentor,
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: my parents,
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: these like...
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: these really important pillars of my life.
• 45:44
  And here I am looking into the ether with my kids and we're
• 45:48
  talking about astronomy
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: or with my wife and like,
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: man,
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm seeing these stars that are millions of years old.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: The star could have been extinct already.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just seeing it for my first time now.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: What is my role in life?
• 46:01
  ask me that when i'm 23 i have a different answer than when i'm
• 46:05
  watching the movie
• 46:06
  this is 40 than when i'm now 44 and i have a wife and family
• 46:10
  and a paycheck might
• 46:11
  mean something different the the world affairs means something
• 46:15
  different to me
• 46:16
  certainly than it did six months ago yet alone two decades ago
• 46:21
  and this comic strip
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: is that it's like
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't matter.
• 46:28
  What I do does not matter at all in some view because this is
• 46:34
  going to go on for
• 46:35
  eons after me and it's already been going on for eons and
• 46:37
  what's the point that my
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: 102 years if I should be so lucky or unlucky to live that long is like,
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: what change can I make?
• 46:46
  And then therein lies the bigger question of like,
• 46:49
  what change can you make?
• 46:51
  And you have the obligation now and the duty that if I can do
• 46:54
  something to leave a
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: better footprint,
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: if I can inspire my son or daughter to be their best,
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: if I can exploit my artists to,
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: for,
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: some of my favorite emails I get from fans,
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 47:07
  my wife works in an ICU and she's had decades of emergency room
• 47:11
  experience.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she comes home and she's like,
• 47:14
  I had parents yelling at me because she was resuscitating one
• 47:17
  of their children who
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: did not make it.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a constant story for my wife.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: A high percentage of her patients do not survive.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And here I am working in the music business.
• 47:29
  And sometimes I belittle myself and be like,
• 47:31
  what I do is not that important.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: Our job is to have fun.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Our job is to make concerts.
• 47:37
  And then the other piece of it is,
• 47:39
  I can see what you're doing because you're right,
• 47:41
  Brennan.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: I get fan mail and then I recall like,
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: dude,
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have so many fan mail,
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: not to make this so service level,
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: but like songs have saved people's lives before.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Songs have moved me to have my greatest trail runs ever.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: Songs have moved me to dance at my wedding in an awkward fashion.
• 48:04
  But these songs can impact people no different than a different
• 48:08
  version of medicine.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, I shouldn't say that about my job.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, our job is to create emotion.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: And where can emotion go?
• 48:15
  It goes into the depths of the atmosphere,
• 48:17
  into the universe,
• 48:19
  more than anybody can calculate.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: And no different than this comic strip.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have to understand that I'm not significant at some points.
• 48:27
  And at the other times when I'm trying to be the best dad or if
• 48:30
  I'm in the biggest
• 48:31
  lull of my life and parenting can be so hard or being a good
• 48:35
  husband and partner
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: can be so difficult,
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: like...
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to try.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to make the, you got to try.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're all just trying our best.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: One of my best,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: not to get all sentimental on some of this crap,
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: but like my best friend had a son before I did.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what was the biggest change you've had?
• 48:54
  And the two answers that came back was George Clooney put it
• 48:56
  the best is he was
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: you have this house full of love.
• 49:01
  you didn't realize like you love your parents you love your
• 49:04
  friends you love your
• 49:06
  wife more than you can't explain it but you love your wife more
• 49:08
  than anything but
• 49:10
  you didn't know that this whole other room existed in your
• 49:12
  house full of love and
• 49:14
  you didn't know that that kind of love existed it's not more or
• 49:16
  less than your wife
• 49:18
  or your parents and your brother siblings or friends but it's
• 49:21
  just a different kind
• 49:22
  of love that you can never explain and it's more powerful and
• 49:25
  the room is bigger
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: than you ever thought
• 49:28
  And then my other best friend was like,
• 49:30
  what was the biggest thing that impacted you?
• 49:32
  And he was like,
• 49:33
  man,
• 49:33
  I used to hate when somebody cutting me off on the road.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, no, I'm just rising.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: That dude probably is a dad or he has a dad or he has a brother.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's just trying his best right now.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: I might've had an off day.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's not being an asshole.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's not a dick driver.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: He just made a bad move, and I used to get mad at that person.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he wanted to flip that person off, and he's like, what's the point?
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: That guy might have had a rough day at work, and it's somebody's son.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize until I was a dad that people can have off days,
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: and it's just somebody's son having a bad day or making an off move.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: That relates to me, back to this comic strip, of like, we're just trying.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Our role's our role.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is significant.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we should move on to number five after we snuggle.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: So number five is All Quiet on the Western Front.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: What... You explain this.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a later edition.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a way late edition.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: I read handfuls of books when I was younger.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: I went through a huge desert.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in the last half year, I found great enjoyment in reading again.
• 50:50
  And I used to go nonfiction too much and I couldn't sleep
• 50:55
  because it was too intense.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Criminology books, some astronomy books, etc.
• 51:02
  And I think this goes back to now that I'm a father and the
• 51:06
  best friend that I just
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: mentioned about what changed when you were a father.
• 51:10
  This comes to me at maybe an apex or more of a crossroads as to
• 51:15
  what's happening
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: politically with me.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm now reading All Quiet.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just read it.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like a book that most people read in high school.
• 51:23
  I skipped a lot of these classics being in the high school and
• 51:26
  track that I was.
• 51:27
  And I'm going back to find out some of these comfort books or
• 51:30
  these classics by the literaries.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I read this book.
• 51:38
  And I was put on my heels immediately of how true...
• 51:43
  I think people call it a memoir.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Some people have even called it a work of fiction,
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: depending on what side you're on,
• 51:49
  because this book had some significant ripple effects in
• 51:53
  Germany during the Nazi
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: regime with how it was considered propaganda.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's a memoir from someone who went through catastrophe
• 52:04
  a major war,
• 52:06
  and they're speaking about what is life,
• 52:08
  what is brotherhood.
• 52:10
  Most people probably listening to this have read it because I'm
• 52:12
  one of the few that haven't.
• 52:14
  But what hit me so hard is one of my best friends that has
• 52:17
  served in the military,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: he's trying to grapple with what he's been doing.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: Politically,
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: he's on the same,
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: very similar to how I am,
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: and he's having to come to grasp with what he did
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: And why, what was, was it worth his time in the military?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the two things that he,
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: and I already read this book,
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: but he talked back about where Ken Burns,
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Vietnam,
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: and this book.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's no different than while he's on the battlefields,
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: just being like,
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a guy trying to survive.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: No different than the comic strip.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Should I have, should this person have been my enemy or foe?
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: or my friend or my cousin,
• 52:57
  like where are they on this spectrum of good and bad other than
• 53:01
  I was put into this
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: position and they were put into that position?
• 53:05
  And me taking that book and the thoughts that were going on on
• 53:10
  the battlefield from
• 53:11
  this author about how difficult and tenuous and precious life
• 53:15
  can be and that
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: someone should be your foe or not,
• 53:20
  depending on just the circumstances to which you were born are
• 53:23
  no different than
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: how I'm trying to be a father to my son and daughter of like,
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: you're privileged because you landed here.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm privileged because I landed here too.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: We are no different than anybody else, hopefully.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: We were born in Colorado.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's our difference.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: We got lucky.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: That guy didn't.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: That girl didn't get as lucky.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Back to this book.
• 53:44
  It made me feel all the feels of what true emotion can be that
• 53:50
  I will hopefully
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: never have to experience.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: because I'm hopefully never gonna be in a war, nor will my children.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: But the sentiments from that,
• 53:59
  that he extracted from the battles and just trying to survive
• 54:03
  and do his best,
• 54:04
  I can relate to pieces of those in a very comforted level of a
• 54:08
  house that was built
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: that I got lucky enough to land in Colorado and I'm working with art.
• 54:15
  But I can still get emotion from this gentleman from decades
• 54:18
  and decades prior
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: battling for his life.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a lot of, there's a lot there.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think of this, this line, it's from a Murakami story, abandoning a cat.
• 54:32
  And it's like,
• 54:33
  no one can choose the time you live in or any of these
• 54:36
  circumstances.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just do the best.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's me paraphrasing it.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: He puts it way more beautifully, but it's, it's more along those lines.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'll try to dig it up for you.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to send you Jose Gonzalez.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can't choose in what fashion or form that you're born in.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can just choose what you do.
• 54:54
  But I'm going to send that song to you because that is no
• 54:56
  different of a concept.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: We got planted here and we got to make the most of what we can.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody's just trying.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't let my kids kill little bugs and stuff.
• 55:11
  Because we're trying to teach them that that aunt is just
• 55:13
  trying to work and go
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: back to their family.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Don't disrupt that.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're trying to be significant for their role.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: You'd be significant for yours.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, I think that's a great note to end on, man.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for doing this.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you so much, Brandon.