Latest / The Downbeat / Adam “Nolly” Getgood: GGD, Drum Sampling & Music Production

Transcript

Adam “Nolly” Getgood: GGD, Drum Sampling & Music Production · The Downbeat

• 0:00
  Hey guys, welcome back to the Downbeat podcast.
• 0:02
  My guest this week is Adam Nollie.
• 0:05
  Get good now. Nollie has many strings to his
• 0:08
  bow. He is a guitarist, he is a
• 0:11
  bassist, he is a producer, he owns 2 plug in companies.
• 0:16
  He does a multitude of things. The reason for this chat is that
• 0:19
  me and Nollie have a new plug in out.
• 0:22
  It's called One Kit Wonder the Downbeat, and it is out now at
• 0:25
  ggd.co. I caught up with knowledge to
• 0:29
  discuss how difficult it was to make this plug in, as well as
• 0:33
  his production credits with bands like Sleep, Token Animals
• 0:36
  As Leaders, and Periphery who he also played bass in.
• 0:39
  He's an immensely talented man. He has a dedication more than
• 0:43
  anyone I know for the Sonic qualities of music, so it was
• 0:47
  great to root around in his brain.
• 0:48
  Before we get started, I want to let you know we have a
• 0:51
  patreonpatreon.com/the Downbeat on it.
• 0:54
  You can get early access to episodes, you can get ad free
• 0:56
  episodes. You can anything I do early,
• 1:00
  there's discount codes on merch, there's early access to merch.
• 1:03
  Everything I do is funded by the Patreon.
• 1:05
  It pays for Madison, the producer.
• 1:07
  It pays for Simon the editor. It pays for this room, It pays
• 1:10
  for these cameras. If you like the podcast, please
• 1:12
  consider signing up patreon.com/the Downbeat.
• 1:16
  If you don't want to support the Patreon, maybe you have a
• 1:18
  vendetta against Simon or Madison or Sony or cameras or
• 1:23
  anything like that. Maybe even me.
• 1:25
  But you need to go outside looking relatively.
• 1:28
  Let me tell you, www.thedownbe.atsearch was down.
• 1:32
  B, We got merch. We got everything from the sock
• 1:34
  to the hat, everything in between except boxes.
• 1:37
  Pending, pending, I'll do boxes. We got high quality St. wear
• 1:43
  with a little metal edge, a little bit of goth in there.
• 1:46
  Whatever it is, it's all made designed by me.
• 1:48
  I don't physically make it. Some other people make it
• 1:51
  ethically, but I design it and it is.
• 1:54
  I'm telling you, it's the best quality merch you can possibly
• 1:57
  get at the price point you're going to look cool.
• 2:00
  www.thedownbeate.at. Sorry spouse Downbeat.
• 2:04
  Please check it out. As ever, this episode of the
• 2:06
  podcast has brought you all the lovely people at Neural DSP.
• 2:09
  Now let's set the scene. You have your unbelievable drum
• 2:13
  tones ready and you're a guitarist and now you need some
• 2:15
  guitar tones. Let me tell you, you're
• 2:17
  listening to a podcast, hopefully with Nollie.
• 2:20
  Nollie has his own plug in at Neural DSP.
• 2:23
  Much like many other artists like Tim Henson, Tosin Abassi,
• 2:27
  Misha Mansour, all of your favorite guitarists and
• 2:30
  producers are using Neural DSP plugins to get their
• 2:33
  unbelievable tone. All you got to do is plug your
• 2:36
  rubbish little guitar. I think it might have to be
• 2:39
  slightly good. All you have to do is load up 1
• 2:41
  of Neural DSP's plugins and you can get an unbelievable guitar
• 2:45
  or bass tone in seconds Listeners the downbeat podcast
• 2:49
  can get a massive 30% of any neural DSP plug in by going to
• 2:53
  neuraldsp.com and using the code downbeat.
• 2:56
  Check it out it's Adam AKA nollie get good on the downbeat
• 3:02
  podcast. Hi are we rolling?
• 3:15
  I mean, we are, but I don't know when it's going to start.
• 3:19
  Here's a now. Nollie welcome.
• 3:21
  Thank you. To the downbeat.
• 3:22
  Here's the thing we were talking a minute ago.
• 3:24
  The here's the thing about Nashville that I kind of hate
• 3:27
  everything. Barbers, coffee shops,
• 3:31
  restaurants, a lot of them look the part and then the quality
• 3:37
  isn't there and I don't know if it's uniquely Nashville or if
• 3:41
  it's a USA thing a fake it till you make it thing.
• 3:44
  Style over substance, Yeah, like the opposite of that cafe in
• 3:47
  Reading that you like. Work.
• 3:48
  How's coffee substance over style?
• 3:52
  I don't even know if it's still going.
• 3:53
  I think they closed the location.
• 3:55
  Oh dear, I don't know. I'm going to have to boost you
• 3:57
  up because you're very softly spoken.
• 3:59
  Well, I could also talk a bit louder.
• 4:01
  You got that David Gunn voice. David Gunn?
• 4:03
  Who's that? King, 810.
• 4:05
  Oh no, you got that guy's whispering.
• 4:08
  Yeah, you're whispering there. Nollie's already had.
• 4:11
  Speaking of coffee, Nollie's already have one can of Monster
• 4:14
  Java mean Bean. And I never have anything like
• 4:18
  this. And you were debating a second.
• 4:21
  I was thirsty, man. Just do it.
• 4:23
  It's milk. Are you still debating your
• 4:25
  second? I'm I'm enjoying this deep well
• 4:28
  water. It still counts as unleashing
• 4:30
  the beast. Nollie, what are you doing in
• 4:32
  Nashville? I'm here to see you, man.
• 4:34
  He came all the way specifically to see me.
• 4:37
  Reminds me of those days, Hedy, 12 years ago where I'd nipped
• 4:42
  down the M4 Down to your parents house 12 years ago probably,
• 4:47
  yeah. 20, I think 1313. Easy.
• 4:52
  Yeah, You'd come down. You'd have a new piece of drum
• 4:54
  gear. I would.
• 4:55
  And you'd just be like, do you want to record it?
• 4:57
  And I'd be like, yeah, come down.
• 4:58
  I needed a drawer. And you would share your treats
• 5:02
  and also also your secrets with me.
• 5:05
  I mean, that was, that was like that was when I was in the in
• 5:08
  the laboratory designing, you know, like kind of, yeah, just
• 5:12
  experimenting with drum stuff. And it was fun.
• 5:14
  I mean, it was fun to come and hang with someone who had the
• 5:16
  ability to play drums at home, record drums at home because you
• 5:19
  were recording not just yourself, but I did other stuff.
• 5:23
  I did like 4 records I think. Didn't you do drums for a Zerath
• 5:28
  record as I? Did.
• 5:29
  Yeah. I engineered the drums for
• 5:31
  three. In that, yeah.
• 5:32
  Do you know the story about that?
• 5:34
  No. Who's the guy that mixed that?
• 5:35
  Is it Jake? Jacob Hanson.
• 5:37
  Jacob Hanson. Yeah.
• 5:39
  So we record this whole thing. If anyone doesn't know the band
• 5:41
  Zerath, they were like my favorite bands in the UK.
• 5:44
  They're on my Zerath 3. Was on my Spotify rap this year.
• 5:47
  Really. Not just because I engineered
• 5:49
  the drums, but just because Unreal out.
• 5:51
  Just keeping the numbers. Just I've got no points on it,
• 5:54
  but just keeping them up. Just unreal bands like Yeah do.
• 5:58
  You know what? Do you know what they do now?
• 6:00
  What, Mike? And.
• 6:00
  Riot Games? Yeah, I was speaking to the guy
• 6:03
  from Riot the other day about something hopefully I get to do.
• 6:07
  Nice. That's me leaking something that
• 6:09
  hasn't even been offered to. Me pretty hard so.
• 6:13
  There was no NDA. There was no NDA but like and
• 6:16
  there, you know, if there is an NDA, I will of course, I'll be
• 6:19
  OK with it anywhere. I was speaking to the guy from
• 6:22
  Riot and he was, he was saying it was basically it wasn't.
• 6:25
  I'm not doing anything he was saying about the podcast.
• 6:27
  OK, Could I come on sometime? I'm going to be in Nashville.
• 6:29
  Yeah, yeah. I wasn't here, but I was asking
• 6:31
  what he was doing in Nashville and he was recording with Mike
• 6:34
  Pittman from Zarath, who also I went to college with Mike.
• 6:38
  Did you? Yeah, I did.
• 6:40
  ACM together, all three of us. No way.
• 6:42
  But when I did that record with them, I think the drums on that
• 6:45
  record sound incredible for, you know, you've been to that room.
• 6:48
  It's like this size, if that. Well, you've spent more time in
• 6:51
  it than I have, but I would have said it's significant mix.
• 6:54
  I mean I think the drum room was the same size as this but the
• 6:57
  ceiling was 6 foot maybe? Yeah.
• 6:59
  Yeah, it was. So we've got a great drum sound.
• 7:01
  I was so pleased with like the edit because I did the edit on
• 7:04
  the drums as well. Went to Jacob Hanson for mixing,
• 7:08
  comes back, I get an e-mail from him and he's like enraged about
• 7:14
  track 10 or whatever it is. And he's like, it's all out of
• 7:17
  phase. Everything's out of phase.
• 7:18
  And I was like, bro, this is crazy.
• 7:20
  Like I'm pretty sure I did my best edit job ever.
• 7:23
  I pull up the stems, everything's fine.
• 7:25
  The band with with we're cool now, but the band at the time
• 7:29
  were just like, yeah, this is unacceptable.
• 7:31
  This shit. We're back and forward for
• 7:33
  about, I reckon a week of like, what could this be?
• 7:36
  I'm like, here's a screenshot of my stems, show me yours And his
• 7:40
  are all out phase ends up just like, yeah, he's crazy.
• 7:44
  The band had recorded a live orchestra for that song without
• 7:47
  the track and then recorded it one BPM too fast.
• 7:51
  So they time stretched 16 channels of drums in like Cubase
• 7:56
  as in select a lot times together.
• 7:59
  And it like ruined the whole fucking thing.
• 8:01
  And they were blaming you. Everyone blamed me, but I won
• 8:04
  and there's no hard feelings because I fucking love those
• 8:06
  boys. No.
• 8:06
  So I worked with Mike because I did the pentacle.
• 8:10
  You did the pants kill record. Well, second one and shout.
• 8:13
  Out League of Legends yeah, she's a League of Legends nerd
• 8:16
  Oh wow you you did the the. Second one, yeah.
• 8:19
  Well, so when you say did it was locked down?
• 8:21
  Yeah, Mike tracked in Germany where he was at the time.
• 8:24
  Isn't it a reason? Yeah, I think he might be still
• 8:26
  in Germany. The plan had been that I'd go,
• 8:29
  but that was COVID time and so that didn't happen.
• 8:32
  And then I actually played guitar and bass on some of the
• 8:35
  songs. Did you and and mixed it?
• 8:37
  Yeah, which was, it's really nice working with a video game
• 8:42
  situation because no one has like their, their artistic ego
• 8:48
  in place. It's like it's just, it's kind
• 8:50
  of, I'm not trying to say it's just a job and functional, but
• 8:55
  like at the same time, no one is trying to express themselves and
• 8:58
  their art through the music. So on the one hand, there's very
• 9:01
  little ego involved, but on the other hand, there are a lot of
• 9:03
  people involved. And Mike was my main point of
• 9:08
  contact. And I mean, just he and I spent
• 9:12
  so many hours on Zoom and sending long emails just like
• 9:16
  minute fixes. But it was cool.
• 9:18
  I mean, and he's, he wrote a lot of it.
• 9:21
  And, you know, it's like, I was mixing this guy who's like one
• 9:26
  of the best violinists on the planet right now, recording with
• 9:28
  his Stradivarius violin and stuff.
• 9:31
  And it was like, wow, this is a different league than.
• 9:33
  So you just mixed that, you didn't engineer that?
• 9:36
  No, I just mixed that. Yeah, lot.
• 9:38
  They've got people everywhere. That's kind of how these things.
• 9:41
  Yeah, because they was like, yeah, I mean, National recording
• 9:43
  the drums for something from some fighting game was, I don't
• 9:46
  know, they're recording. So I'm sorry if that's a leak,
• 9:48
  give me some work and make me sign an NDA, you know?
• 9:50
  Shut the fuck up. I didn't even know that about
• 9:52
  you. You got so many strings to your
• 9:54
  bow. Wow.
• 9:55
  I mean, I guess I've done. I forget records I've done for
• 9:58
  sure until something reminds me. When you put your job
• 10:02
  descriptions out really, and forgive me if I'm missing any
• 10:07
  guitarist, bassist, producer, mixer, engineer, that's like
• 10:13
  owner of a plug in company and signature products that include
• 10:18
  but are not limited to a signature bass, a dark glass
• 10:22
  pedal and a neural plug in suite.
• 10:25
  And and guitar pickups. Guitar pickups as well.
• 10:28
  Two sets. Two sets with two.
• 10:30
  With bare knuckles. Bare knuckle.
• 10:32
  And I designed a guitar as well, but that's not a signature.
• 10:34
  That's like a designed weird thing.
• 10:35
  What's the guitar? Manson Guitars.
• 10:37
  Didn't know that one. Matt Bellamy from Muse.
• 10:40
  Plays your guitar. Well, no, he he has played
• 10:44
  Manson forever. OK, Yeah.
• 10:46
  And I designed a guitar with him.
• 10:47
  He did actually have one made for himself that he sometimes
• 10:49
  uses, but I don't think that's because of me.
• 10:52
  You have so many strings to your bow.
• 10:54
  It's a lot when you put it out like that, but it's everything
• 10:57
  just like, I don't know, you just kind of move from one thing
• 10:59
  to the next. That's what I was going to say.
• 11:00
  How do you manage that? How do you prevent burnout?
• 11:03
  You know, I was talking about this recently and it's I think
• 11:05
  it's just because I cycle through things like it's not
• 11:09
  none of those things is like the one thing that I do, I do get a
• 11:13
  little bit burned out on it, but then I kind of need to focus on
• 11:16
  something else that I've been ignoring for a while.
• 11:19
  So, you know, I'm, it's, it's a really lucky situation to be in
• 11:22
  to be able to do that. And will you put all your eggs
• 11:25
  in one basket for a while and slow down on the other stuff?
• 11:29
  So like GGD, which I'm sure we're going to talk.
• 11:31
  About we are definitely. That that is that has to be my
• 11:36
  number one priority. That's my not only am I do I
• 11:38
  found that company and have a salary from that company, but
• 11:41
  also there's so many people now involved in that and I'm a key
• 11:45
  part of the pipeline of all products.
• 11:47
  So like, like, you know, I get time off now and then, but
• 11:50
  ultimately that's the thing I have to be most responsive to.
• 11:53
  What's GGD like day-to-day then? It's so variable and you know,
• 11:57
  it's only now that I'm starting to actually see like really
• 12:03
  where value can come from. And it can it can look so small
• 12:07
  time like just a dude on a laptop making some comments
• 12:11
  about like referring to myself, you know, like very
• 12:13
  unprofessional seeming me on the couch making some comments on
• 12:16
  Slack to a designer about something could.
• 12:18
  Slack. Like really just a kind of chat
• 12:21
  app which you can separate things out into threads that
• 12:24
  companies use for like intra company communication.
• 12:27
  OK it's like AI think their their slogan is where work
• 12:31
  happens. Nice, one of those.
• 12:32
  Companies, yeah. So just, you know, it's
• 12:37
  interesting sometimes. Sometimes things take a lot of
• 12:41
  months of hard patient work to generate something that's really
• 12:45
  tangible and other times it's like really tiny little bits of
• 12:48
  input here and there. So, you know, with GGD I'm, you
• 12:52
  know, I'm attentive on Slack for questions.
• 12:54
  I guess you'd say my my job role.
• 12:57
  Yeah, What's your role other? Than I would define it as head
• 13:01
  of sound. Head of Sound.
• 13:03
  Head of sound sounds as ominous as where work happens.
• 13:08
  He's the head of sound. Yeah.
• 13:09
  I mean, I guess what I'm trying to say is like anything to do
• 13:12
  with the sound of the products. Yeah, that's like ultimately my
• 13:15
  responsibility. We were quite hands on with it
• 13:17
  because we just recorded a plug in and you were there and I just
• 13:22
  stayed at your house and we did the the whole thing.
• 13:24
  Yeah, you would think you would delegate that being the owner.
• 13:28
  But I wouldn't want to, you know what I mean?
• 13:30
  Like the whole, the whole thing's built off really in the,
• 13:34
  in the first instance, Matt Halpin and I going into a studio
• 13:38
  and trying our hand at recording drums.
• 13:39
  And like the thing which I bring to the company is that hands on
• 13:43
  like physically turning the tuning key.
• 13:45
  The gnarly tone. It's the gnarly tone.
• 13:49
  Of course it is. The gnarly tone, sure.
• 13:51
  I mean, I guess it's just me being there, making decisions
• 13:54
  and reacting to sounds in real time.
• 13:55
  And like we have done some things which have been recorded
• 13:58
  by other people. Sometimes I've been there in a
• 14:01
  couple of instances in lockdown I wasn't.
• 14:06
  So it's not that it could never happen.
• 14:07
  But did they come out worse in your opinion?
• 14:10
  No. Don't tell me the product just.
• 14:12
  I mean, no. So I would say those products
• 14:15
  also were not things that were entirely in my wheelhouse, so
• 14:18
  that it's not like a point of comparison exactly.
• 14:20
  It's not. Would you consider yourself the
• 14:21
  drum guy? In in.
• 14:23
  In juju. Yeah, yeah, I guess.
• 14:25
  You do make smash and grab. There's another plug in, there's
• 14:30
  a few cab. Insurance, yeah, we do some cab
• 14:32
  things. We've got a bass plug in a
• 14:34
  sample bass, which really suck. Took a very long time to do.
• 14:36
  Sample bass as if it's like a drum plug in, as in every single
• 14:40
  note. Yeah, pretty much, yeah.
• 14:43
  I mean, but at least you don't have to be silent when you do
• 14:45
  it. You do have to be still, yeah,
• 14:47
  but it's de eyed. So I'd just be like watching.
• 14:50
  Pick off things or. Something just pick.
• 14:52
  Just pick just the whole whole threat.
• 14:56
  The whole What do they call that scale?
• 14:58
  The whole. Chromatic scale the.
• 15:00
  Whole thing. Yeah, I mean the so I I think to
• 15:03
  be honest, I did, I did make some concessions where it's like
• 15:06
  the string just doesn't sound good, like the big, the thickest
• 15:08
  one played right at the top. You play on.
• 15:11
  So I think it kind of was like as the strings got thicker I
• 15:15
  wouldn't sample quite as many notes.
• 15:16
  Oh yeah, I forget how a guitar works.
• 15:18
  Some of the notes are the same. They are, yeah.
• 15:21
  I don't know anything about guitars.
• 15:24
  Before we get into our delightful plug in, give me a
• 15:26
  little background on GGD. Yeah, because that you did the
• 15:28
  podcast before it was audio only.
• 15:30
  I can't really remember when it was.
• 15:31
  I feel like it was a long time ago.
• 15:33
  It's got to be 4 years ago or something.
• 15:35
  Fucking more than that. If it was audio only, I think
• 15:38
  maybe it was Madison. Can you pull up please, Adam
• 15:43
  Nollie, get good The downbeat, I think.
• 15:46
  It was 2020 then. Maybe.
• 15:48
  I feel like it might have been pandemic, maybe even pre
• 15:51
  pandemic really. Were you in Glasgow pre
• 15:54
  pandemic? No.
• 15:56
  You were definitely up in Scotland.
• 15:58
  Was I? Maybe it's 2021.
• 16:00
  Maybe you're exactly right. March 2021.
• 16:04
  Happy birthday to me the Pisces episode.
• 16:07
  OK, so four years. I mean, yeah, but it's been a
• 16:09
  while. A lot of people don't listen to
• 16:11
  the audio ones, although I was doing the top ten countdown the
• 16:13
  other day. I believe on audio you're if not
• 16:19
  in the top ten, you're like just slightly out of it which #12.
• 16:25
  Not bad. I mean, considering Kubla Khan
• 16:27
  spirit box not loose, Bring me the horizon not loose again
• 16:30
  architects, Kubla Khan again architects Slipknot Underoath
• 16:34
  Architects again, architects again not loose again, spirit
• 16:36
  box again not only. So I'm like, OK, I'm not a band.
• 16:39
  You're the number one of the, not.
• 16:41
  Band you're number one just a guy episode of the and it
• 16:45
  wasn't. Just some guy, yeah.
• 16:47
  You are more than just some guy. When did GDD start and how?
• 16:52
  Did you started like 10 years ago?
• 16:55
  10 years ago. I can't believe that because
• 16:57
  that when I think about it, that means that like people that are
• 17:01
  in their late teens, early 20s now maybe using our products
• 17:06
  like we would have just been part of the furniture of like
• 17:09
  production maybe into them. And that just if I think about
• 17:12
  the companies that I think that way about.
• 17:15
  You know which are. Well, I mean, I'd say something
• 17:17
  like, I'm not comparing the size of the company because they're a
• 17:20
  lot bigger, but companies like Tune Track or like, you know,
• 17:22
  Steven Slate. Yeah, when we were coming up it,
• 17:25
  it was pretty much those too. Yeah, if you want a drum sound.
• 17:28
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 17:29
  So it's kind of weird that I guess it's probably similar to
• 17:32
  you when you think about, you know, if I think about like
• 17:34
  Periphery or any bands that you've been in too, just like
• 17:37
  how long it's been around and how much of younger person's
• 17:41
  life I was that. Makes the other day actually,
• 17:44
  yeah, because we just split up and it's been 10 years and it's
• 17:47
  like some people who are 21 they their entire adult listening
• 17:54
  life we've been a part of yeah. It's weird, isn't it?
• 17:57
  Getting old. I kind of like it.
• 18:00
  Me too, in ways. Like I feel a weird sense of
• 18:04
  respect from younger people. Not in like some old man yells
• 18:07
  at Cloud. You should respect me way.
• 18:09
  Whereas people are like, more I really appreciate what you've
• 18:14
  done and what you've been doing. And I'm like, I'm just kind of
• 18:16
  doing it. And then when I think about,
• 18:17
  it's like, no, I've been doing it for your entire life, pretty
• 18:20
  much. So yeah, sort of become the old
• 18:23
  heads of the genre. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:26
  I guess you kind of settled into that.
• 18:27
  It was. It was funny.
• 18:28
  So do you know Connor Kaminsky? He's a really, really talented
• 18:32
  guitarist. You might have seen him on
• 18:34
  Instagram. I think does he do GGD
• 18:36
  playthroughs? Yeah.
• 18:37
  He's done. Yeah, Yeah.
• 18:38
  So he wrote something with me. I think I followed him after
• 18:43
  that. OK, The gasket song, Yeah.
• 18:45
  Say, well, he's, he's awesome. He's kind of become a friend.
• 18:47
  He came and hung out with his fiance, fiance, I think, and we
• 18:52
  went out to dinner with my mum, the four of us.
• 18:55
  And, and bring this up. Well, just because it, I was
• 19:00
  just aware because he's, he's a bit younger.
• 19:02
  He's maybe 10 years younger than I am.
• 19:05
  And then like my mum remembers like, like we were talking about
• 19:09
  black machine guitars and she's like, Oh yeah, Doug, he was such
• 19:12
  a nice guy. I sat next to him when we saw
• 19:14
  Dream Theatre and stuff like that.
• 19:15
  It's just like you start to realise like how small time it
• 19:20
  felt at the time, but like now, how kind of incredulous that
• 19:23
  might seem, you know? OK, so to weirdly to also
• 19:27
  parallel that, so my mum will repeatedly mention how nice
• 19:32
  Devin Townsend was when you guys went to pick up my old kit for.
• 19:38
  I didn't go, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, and Nuke used one of my
• 19:41
  old tamas that was in my parents house and driving down to Mono
• 19:45
  Valley stopped off at my parents house.
• 19:48
  Devin Townsend needs to use the toilet.
• 19:51
  So my mum lets him in, uses a toilet.
• 19:53
  They have a little chat, my mum with Devin Townsend.
• 19:57
  He leaves. They phoned me to say, Oh yeah,
• 19:59
  it went really well. Kevin came in and used the
• 20:01
  toilet and I was like Kevin. And he was like, yeah, Kevin
• 20:04
  that the bold lad. And I was like, I don't, you
• 20:06
  mean Devin Townsend mum? And she's like, Oh yeah.
• 20:09
  So like nice guy. Devin Townsend is like really
• 20:11
  fresh in my mum's head is just like.
• 20:14
  In her mind, like a contemporary of mine, and it's like, Mom,
• 20:17
  that's fucking Devin Town. Yeah, so I mean he came and
• 20:20
  mixed, Devin came and mixed empath with me in in bath.
• 20:26
  And at the time I was using the like the loft of my parents
• 20:30
  house as my mix room and my mom was out of town.
• 20:33
  My dad was in and like for this like 10 days or whatever it was.
• 20:37
  So it was just like Devin and I and my dad like in this.
• 20:40
  House of all the parents. Yeah, so and and but my dad
• 20:44
  actually passed away really recently.
• 20:46
  Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:47
  It's, yeah. I mean, it sucks, but his voice
• 20:52
  is captured in the Empath record.
• 20:55
  There's a song called Sprite has Morgan Agron playing on it.
• 20:59
  And Devin wanted there to be like, a kind of kindly voice
• 21:03
  reading, like a kind of, you know, an allegory, like a kind
• 21:07
  of little nursery tale kind of thing.
• 21:10
  And he was trying to think who should do it.
• 21:12
  And he was like, do you think your dad would be OK?
• 21:14
  Because we're like having these kind of nice conversations
• 21:16
  around. So somewhere I have a photo of
• 21:19
  like the two of them. Like, because Devin just kind
• 21:21
  of, I don't think he'd planned what the words were going to be.
• 21:23
  But once my dad said yes, he kind of like, just scribbled
• 21:26
  some stuff down. And like, somewhere there's the
• 21:28
  picture of the two of them, like dad in front of a microphone,
• 21:31
  Devin showing him the words. And yeah, if you listen to the
• 21:33
  song Sprite of Empath, that's my dad.
• 21:36
  It's very, especially now it's, it's so lovely to have his voice
• 21:41
  recorded like in super high quality and stuff.
• 21:43
  Was he aware of the gravity of like the record he was on?
• 21:46
  I think. Well, I don't know.
• 21:48
  I think so. It's a big.
• 21:49
  Record. It's a big record.
• 21:51
  Yeah, can you? Do you reckon you can find me
• 21:52
  that photo? Would you be OK with the photo
• 21:55
  being on the? Podcast maybe, Yeah.
• 21:56
  I mean it's, it's a rubbish photo if I remember.
• 21:59
  I don't have one of my mum and Devin so I can't do that but I
• 22:02
  feel. I'll try and find it.
• 22:03
  Yeah. This is.
• 22:04
  We're so far away from your question.
• 22:06
  But you know, what I love is with GGD, with all of these
• 22:10
  things, I love how small time it feels when you're actually doing
• 22:14
  the thing. Yeah, I don't know.
• 22:16
  There's something that I just find so nice about, like it's
• 22:21
  just some guys hanging around doing something.
• 22:23
  And in many ways, I guess with what I do, I don't like take the
• 22:27
  temperature of the popularity of stuff in the same way that you
• 22:30
  do. If you're doing a tour and in
• 22:31
  front of a couple of 1000 people or whatever, it's just me doing
• 22:35
  my life. And the thing you want to be
• 22:37
  doing because it needs to exist for you.
• 22:39
  Yeah. To have it.
• 22:41
  And it feels really small time, like I'm just in the spare room
• 22:44
  at my house and my daughter and wife are in the house and going
• 22:48
  downstairs and making a coffee and then coming back up and
• 22:50
  mixing something and then it's like kind of big.
• 22:54
  It's so big. Have you got any like any idea
• 22:58
  on like how many records have used?
• 23:01
  Drums. I keep going.
• 23:03
  I keep finding out it's being used on stuff and like.
• 23:06
  I found out recently a lot of metal core albums these days are
• 23:10
  just programmed drums, like 50%. Yeah, a huge amount.
• 23:15
  But no one really leaks what they're using, which is
• 23:17
  annoying. Can you hear it?
• 23:19
  When you hear a record, can you be like, that's my plug in?
• 23:21
  Symbols usually give it away because a lot of the time in
• 23:24
  these productions you're talking about them, They just want like
• 23:27
  a good sounding symbol set and then they might blend in other
• 23:30
  samples, but there are certain sounds like the original, modern
• 23:34
  and massive pack that was kind of like our breakthrough.
• 23:38
  That was 10 years ago. Well, that was eight years.
• 23:40
  So we started with the Matt Health and Signature Library
• 23:44
  because you asked me how the whole thing started and I told
• 23:46
  you about my dad meeting Devin. This is what we do.
• 23:48
  This is. What we do?
• 23:50
  Yeah. So Matt and I had the
• 23:51
  opportunity to work with a company.
• 23:54
  They they approached us asking if we wanted to do a sample
• 23:57
  library. And then the process of
• 23:58
  negotiating not not even like hard negotiating, just
• 24:02
  communicating was taking ages. And then it got to a point where
• 24:06
  the finances just didn't seem like they were going to work
• 24:08
  out, maybe because Matt and I were going to 5050 as well.
• 24:10
  It was like, well, this doesn't seem like a massive payday,
• 24:14
  should we just try and do it ourselves?
• 24:17
  Were they? Essentially, they were going to
• 24:19
  get you to do the work and they were going to provide the
• 24:22
  software. Yeah, it was an established drum
• 24:24
  company like company that's still around and it seemed like
• 24:29
  a good opportunity. But yeah, as as we got into it
• 24:31
  and it seemed like it was going to take ages to come out, which
• 24:34
  now I really understand being on site like these things to take
• 24:37
  ages together. We recorded this a year ago.
• 24:39
  Yeah, relatively quick. Yeah, that what was it, August?
• 24:43
  No, it was it was maybe it was August.
• 24:46
  I can find this out. But you know what I was thinking
• 24:48
  was funny the other day. I was thinking when I did that
• 24:54
  was like maybe to the day or like a couple of weeks after, I
• 25:01
  was like, I might move to America.
• 25:03
  And I remember I was talking to you in the car and I was just
• 25:06
  like, yeah, I might move to America.
• 25:07
  Oh man, I remember that so clearly.
• 25:09
  And I remember feeling like from what you were telling me,
• 25:12
  circumstances were kind of you were like the cork in a bottle
• 25:14
  about to be popped out. And we're just like, so ready.
• 25:17
  I'm going to blow your fucking mind and my own considering I
• 25:20
  moved to America with a visa with operating all my gear.
• 25:26
  I remember it seemed very very short.
• 25:28
  On the on the 26th of November, I did that, yeah. 13th of
• 25:33
  October, yeah, OK. That's that's what I mean.
• 25:36
  Champagne bottle was just ready to go. 13th of October I was
• 25:40
  like I might move to America and whatever that is. 34 days later
• 25:45
  I did it. I am mentally unwell.
• 25:47
  But wasn't that, was that because you had, I'm not trying
• 25:50
  to diminish it, but was it because touring was basically
• 25:52
  forcing you? That was like the time you could
• 25:54
  do it, otherwise it was going to be way later kind of thing.
• 25:57
  Didn't didn't you move and then go straight on?
• 25:59
  I went straight on the downbeat tour.
• 26:01
  I I my gear got freighted on the 26th.
• 26:04
  Which did awesomely, didn't it? Yeah, because we were talking
• 26:06
  about that and you were like, I guess I'm just going to talk.
• 26:09
  Talk. Yeah, it was kind of weird and
• 26:11
  it went great. But in retrospect, talking about
• 26:14
  burnout, I went from a full year of touring straight into that
• 26:19
  plug in with you, straight to a podcast tour and then moved and
• 26:25
  then straight back onto orchestra.
• 26:26
  So I was so burnt out. Do you remember when we did the
• 26:29
  samples that you were really unwell?
• 26:32
  I do. I had like an infection or like
• 26:34
  a throat infection or something. And then weirdly enough, today
• 26:37
  my throat is scratchy. I'm like, maybe I'm just
• 26:38
  allergic to knowledge. The thought of me.
• 26:42
  Allergic to knowledge. I was so sick and I was so
• 26:45
  funny. I was remembering when we were
• 26:47
  doing the sampling just thinking, Oh my God, I'm going
• 26:51
  to cough. I'm going to cough during like a
• 26:52
  symbol as well. Anyways, rough.
• 26:54
  We need to finish answering my question before we go.
• 26:57
  OK, we don't have to I. Know I will do.
• 27:00
  You do the plug in, you do the first one.
• 27:02
  Well, so I mean, we decided to just give it a go.
• 27:04
  Yep. And we checked in to a studio in
• 27:07
  Baltimore that had been recommended.
• 27:09
  We'd never been there before, and that Baltimore's where Matt
• 27:12
  lives, so that kind of made sense.
• 27:14
  The wire Silence of the Lambs might help him.
• 27:18
  The Trilogy, that's it. And we'd, we'd like sampled
• 27:23
  shells just, you know, for fun when doing a record, but we'd
• 27:26
  never done like a full sample set of symbols.
• 27:29
  So we didn't really know what we were doing.
• 27:32
  But we sampled for like 3 or 4 days or something and captured
• 27:36
  loads of stuff that I think a lot of we used like weird
• 27:39
  tinkles on the symbols and swells and stuff.
• 27:42
  And then we had it compiled into a contact library via Dez.
• 27:45
  Do you know Dez? Don't you?
• 27:47
  I mean, you know Dez through GGD.
• 27:48
  But do. You.
• 27:49
  Oh no, I knew. Dez from before, right?
• 27:50
  Dez Oh no Dez from playing with the safety fire of.
• 27:55
  Course, right? Biotrophy yeah, we were like on
• 27:58
  some all dayers at some point. And then also the safety fire
• 28:02
  stayed at someone's house after a a drum the London drum show,
• 28:09
  like I want to say 2016 or something and me and I won't say
• 28:12
  his name because he's it's Mr. Professional at the moment, but
• 28:15
  me and him got absolutely fucked up on coke at the drum show,
• 28:20
  like trying to get all these famous drummers to do blow with
• 28:23
  us. Quite a lot of them did.
• 28:26
  And then we like ended up staying at this house in the
• 28:28
  safety fire were there. I think that's the first time I
• 28:30
  ever met Des. Oh, OK, right.
• 28:31
  So Des. Hold me, Hold me.
• 28:34
  Des has managed to make himself entirely invisible to the
• 28:38
  public. Yeah, nobody knows, but he is
• 28:41
  kind of like. So Matt and I had this idea.
• 28:45
  Dez was a good friend. He'd recently done like a
• 28:48
  contact library for for Rudy based off the first good Tiger
• 28:52
  record. It was shells only, but he had a
• 28:53
  contact guy. Oh.
• 28:55
  Really. I didn't.
• 28:55
  I don't remember that. Yeah, I don't think it was.
• 28:57
  I mean, it was pretty short lived and he was like, well, you
• 29:01
  know, I can put you in contact. And basically he just
• 29:03
  immediately became part of like the, IT wasn't really a company
• 29:06
  yet, but it was like, well, the three of us seem to have like a
• 29:09
  good matching skill set. And we got it built and we were
• 29:14
  writing Periphery 3 at that point, I think.
• 29:17
  So we, I was in Silver Spring staying just above Misha's
• 29:21
  apartment and loaded it up on Misha's computer and like, tried
• 29:26
  putting some really through it. And we were like, whoa, that
• 29:29
  actually sounds really good, you know, And Misha thought, thought
• 29:32
  so too. So he's like, well, I want to
• 29:34
  get in on this. And that was the, you know, that
• 29:36
  was the moment that we all put our rings together in a circle.
• 29:39
  GGD bleeps happened and then. Split the company 25%.
• 29:44
  Ownership. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:46
  So good for you. Yeah, that's how it started.
• 29:48
  And then we did modern and massive.
• 29:49
  We were like, well, we've done the Matt Halpin thing, but we
• 29:51
  should do something a bit more generic.
• 29:53
  And we. It was code name, the Rock
• 29:56
  library and where work happened. So glad you didn't use that.
• 30:02
  What is? It's funny because we're going
• 30:04
  back eight or nine years and, and I, I hadn't been able to
• 30:08
  find the original sessions that we recorded the modern and
• 30:12
  massive, as it came to be known samples into.
• 30:15
  I had ones from further down the line when they were being edited
• 30:17
  and that kind of been more stuff had been done.
• 30:20
  And then I found, like, a really old hard drive that made a
• 30:24
  horrible noise when I plugged it into the black one of those, you
• 30:27
  know, and it died pretty quickly, but not before I
• 30:32
  managed to, like, salvage a few things off, including the Rock
• 30:35
  library, as I saw. And I was like, oh, it was
• 30:37
  called the Rock Library. I completely forgot.
• 30:39
  Yeah. And the goal had been to do
• 30:40
  something. And we were thinking of, like,
• 30:42
  Dave Grohl meets Underoath meets that, like, big drums, kind of
• 30:47
  big rock drum sounds. And that, I don't know.
• 30:51
  It seemed to capture. I don't know really what
• 30:54
  happened, why it happened in that way, but it it just went
• 30:58
  everywhere that library and I know that we've recently
• 31:02
  launched modern Massive 2 now like 8 years later on our.
• 31:04
  Standalone plug in which is huge for us.
• 31:07
  You know what I it has a bit of advice from me OK to you.
• 31:11
  You need to be posting more about the fact it's standalone
• 31:17
  because almost every single person that I've mentioned my
• 31:21
  plug in has been like I hate contact.
• 31:25
  You know, sometimes we send it to artists or whatever and like
• 31:28
  we have an e-mail that goes out, you've probably received 1 and
• 31:31
  it explains how to install it. And like 20% of the time, no,
• 31:36
  I'm probably overtaking it. But we get a few people that are
• 31:39
  like, well, I'm in native access and I don't see it there.
• 31:43
  And we're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's not that thing
• 31:46
  anymore. So yeah.
• 31:47
  Yeah, people that don't know what this is real short layman's
• 31:51
  terms for drum libraries that are in contact.
• 31:54
  You need to install a contact player, and then you need to
• 31:58
  install the library into contact player, and then contact is the
• 32:01
  VST that you put your drums through.
• 32:05
  People like me who are a fucking idiot, that's too much for me.
• 32:09
  Well. It's also in China because
• 32:11
  Contact is like a turnkey solution for lots of companies.
• 32:13
  It's like Roblox or Minecraft, you can make games within it,
• 32:19
  but you are confined to the rules of the game that was made
• 32:24
  in the first place. And it's so generic in how it
• 32:27
  loads up that that initial process of configuring things
• 32:31
  can be quite confusing because it's kind of like so many
• 32:33
  different options. And if you've not encountered it
• 32:35
  before, it's. Yeah, It's also a brilliant way
• 32:40
  to get into the business of selling any kind of virtual
• 32:43
  instruments. You know, GGD wouldn't exist
• 32:45
  without it, but it certainly was something that we wanted to.
• 32:48
  We wanted to create our own kind of custom program and doing that
• 32:51
  for a drum sampler, you can do it fairly cheap and quick and
• 32:54
  not very in depth and not very beautiful.
• 32:57
  And we decided to go the route, not realizing how long it would
• 33:02
  take. But, you know, it took us six
• 33:04
  years, really. Six years.
• 33:06
  Well, yeah, because of the way that we did it basically, which
• 33:11
  I won't go into, but like we we had.
• 33:13
  One sentence. Yeah, basically we created
• 33:17
  something fairly generic and then it took time to build it
• 33:19
  out to something which GGD could use to create something very
• 33:24
  fully fledged, like what we've done now with Modern Massive 2.
• 33:27
  So it's a long play, but now it's out there, it's like, yes.
• 33:31
  Fine. It's is it much easier to create
• 33:33
  content for that platform that you've made It's.
• 33:36
  It's our own thing. It's like, you know, it's our
• 33:37
  own factory, like everything set up exactly how we want it.
• 33:41
  I wanted to ask you. Oh my God, it's podcast.
• 33:44
  Time. I know it's you know, it's a 2
• 33:45
  you've got. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 33:47
  I wanted to ask you what you felt like the the process was
• 33:51
  like without necessarily going into like all the boring detail,
• 33:53
  exactly how we did it. Was it more in depth than you
• 33:57
  thought? Was it I'll tell you this?
• 33:59
  Tell me. It has felt like the most amount
• 34:03
  of work I've done on anything. Whoa.
• 34:06
  Excluding learning the last Stray record.
• 34:09
  OK, as we spoke about in the car earlier, I have a track record
• 34:13
  with old records where I would like, I'd write the song, I'd
• 34:17
  kind of learn the drums, I'd go to the studio.
• 34:19
  I haven't haven't really learned them properly and it takes me
• 34:22
  too long in the studio. The last Stray album I learned
• 34:24
  it note for note. I would say that's the most
• 34:28
  amount of work I've ever done in music was for that Stray record
• 34:31
  other than like practicing like professional, something that's
• 34:33
  going to come out. Number two is this plug in and
• 34:37
  it wasn't specifically. It's not preparation.
• 34:41
  No, it was. I wasn't prepared for how hard
• 34:49
  it would be to hit all the velocities.
• 34:52
  Because we do it very. Thorough.
• 34:56
  And if anyone's got this far, and I don't know what the fuck
• 34:58
  we're talking about, which Madison might not know what
• 35:00
  we're fucking talking about, we're talking about basically in
• 35:02
  layman's terms. We have created with GGD 1K1 of
• 35:07
  the Downbeat a way that you can install me into your computer
• 35:11
  and you hear me playing my drums with my sticks and my arms and
• 35:17
  my grooves if you want them. Or you can be puppet master.
• 35:20
  Or you can be the puppet master, but you're the sound is me.
• 35:24
  So to do that, you need to basically get every single
• 35:28
  velocity hit of every single part of a drum kit.
• 35:32
  But I have to do it and I wasn't prepared for I guess how many
• 35:39
  hits there would be. It's not.
• 35:40
  It wasn't fun. It's a patience game and what I
• 35:44
  you weren't feeling well and that.
• 35:45
  Sucks. Yeah, that was a big part.
• 35:47
  That sucks. Like I it's one of because I
• 35:49
  sometimes do the sampling myself, like do the hits if I'm
• 35:52
  in a clear headspace and there's nothing stressful going on
• 35:55
  around me in my life. Yeah, I love it.
• 35:58
  It's almost blissful meditating, meditative.
• 36:01
  It's literally like what Buddhists do, like listening to
• 36:03
  the bell. Like, you know, you just like,
• 36:04
  sit and hit something. Listen to the rest.
• 36:06
  Listening to it and you just sit still and contemplate it and
• 36:09
  then do it again. It's it can be amazing, but man,
• 36:12
  if you're like in a rush or something annoying is going on
• 36:15
  and you need phones going off. Oh yeah, 3.
• 36:17
  Fucking 2 seconds. Then it then it can be a
• 36:19
  torture. But I did.
• 36:22
  That wasn't the bit that felt like true.
• 36:24
  I mean, at the time it did feel like true work.
• 36:26
  I think it took us Ruby do three days I think.
• 36:29
  It was. Five.
• 36:30
  Fuck. Five days, right?
• 36:31
  OK, so 5 days. At The Amazing Real.
• 36:34
  World, Real World Studios, Peter Gabriel, that was on a bucket
• 36:37
  list for me to record in. And I guess I kind of recorded
• 36:40
  in there. I mean, I did.
• 36:42
  Yeah, you did. You played some beats not.
• 36:43
  For you had a little jam. That's the other thing.
• 36:46
  The thing that felt like the real work was the 300 grooves.
• 36:52
  Right. Yeah, which is something I
• 36:54
  didn't have any look at. That was all on your end.
• 36:57
  I didn't even know that that I thought that was going to be a
• 37:01
  separate pack and I was going to have time to do it.
• 37:04
  And it was I I was like, I don't think I know 300 grooves.
• 37:09
  So yeah, that was the bit that felt like real work.
• 37:13
  But you did them and they're really sick.
• 37:14
  Thanks very much. I I'm genuinely super into this
• 37:19
  product. I think it's out-of-the-box,
• 37:21
  sounds great, and I always love the one Kit Wonders, which are
• 37:24
  literally just one kit. No options because it's just.
• 37:28
  What do you mean by no options? Because you're there's still a
• 37:30
  mixer. I sorry, I mean in terms of the
• 37:32
  drum kit, yeah, Modern and Massive 2, let's say, has
• 37:35
  whatever 7 kick drums and 9 or 10 snare drums or whatever.
• 37:39
  This is just your setup and I love the purism of that.
• 37:43
  I mean, so do I, because it's I play those drums and those
• 37:47
  cymbals because I think they're the best ones.
• 37:49
  Yeah. I mean, I might be biased, but
• 37:52
  like, I think the symbol and this is not, this is not because
• 37:57
  of the recording quality or any of that.
• 37:58
  It's just my personal preference for symbols.
• 38:01
  I think this plugin has the best cymbal sounds I've ever heard on
• 38:05
  a plugin, and partly that's because it's just my preferred
• 38:09
  cymbal setup. Sure.
• 38:11
  I don't know. The high hats are just so good.
• 38:14
  Like the realism is insane, yeah.
• 38:18
  I'm glad you think so. Unbelievable.
• 38:20
  When you put in the work, it's, it's like cooking your own food
• 38:23
  or something like when it comes out good, you just like, oh,
• 38:25
  this is such a lovely resolution.
• 38:29
  I have a question on this as well though because I'm I'm a
• 38:32
  firm believer I'm at you can tell me if I'm completely wrong,
• 38:36
  but like when I've been playing the beta version of this, it
• 38:41
  really does sound like me. It does.
• 38:43
  Because it's my arm and the way I play the snare plus my sticks.
• 38:51
  It's not just my gear. It's the same way.
• 38:53
  I watched a video of Les Claypool recently, Primus Les
• 38:57
  Claypool, and he's talking. He was on Rick Biato's podcast
• 39:00
  and he was talking about they tried for years with Primus to
• 39:04
  get the Stewart Copeland drum sound, and they tried a bunch of
• 39:08
  different drum kits that tried everything.
• 39:10
  And then one day he was jamming with Stewart Copeland on a drum
• 39:12
  kit. It wasn't even his.
• 39:13
  And he was like, Oh yeah, it's just him.
• 39:16
  Yeah. And if it's crazy that that
• 39:18
  comes out in a plugin. It is.
• 39:20
  I mean you mentioned snare. I think a rimshot is like a
• 39:24
  fingerprint almost like like that that geometry of like how
• 39:29
  the stick contractors. I think there is like some
• 39:32
  people have more of a generic rim shot sound, but certain
• 39:35
  people and you have a really great rim shot sound.
• 39:38
  I've heard a lot of it. That's like my only one.
• 39:40
  The only thing I can do is I can hit that baby lap.
• 39:43
  It's not just volume, because some drummers on the same drum,
• 39:48
  as they go above a certain intensity, it gets thinner like
• 39:52
  the However it is the angle that they're catching.
• 39:55
  They're no longer getting the body out of the drum.
• 39:57
  I know what. You mean other drummers?
• 39:59
  You for example. Can take a full arm above the
• 40:04
  head, swing at it and still get like the the out of it, you know
• 40:08
  what I mean? I think one of the things what
• 40:10
  we're talking about, when you asked me how was it for me, one
• 40:14
  of the things I didn't really realize was like just how almost
• 40:21
  unusable 127 is for realism. The hits that I did at 1:27, for
• 40:27
  people that don't know, 127 is the maximum velocity you could
• 40:30
  put into MIDI, so it's the loudest possible.
• 40:32
  No, I would never play a drum like that in my life.
• 40:36
  Well, no. OK, you do live.
• 40:38
  I bet you do. I've seen you live when you're
• 40:41
  really going for it. That's what it's like.
• 40:43
  Yeah. OK.
• 40:43
  But you can't play a blast beat like that, you know what I mean?
• 40:46
  You can't play a feel like a fast feel like that.
• 40:48
  It's when you've got the time and the space to be able.
• 40:50
  To the interesting thing though is like I guess each drummers
• 40:54
  127 is going to be different. Totally.
• 40:56
  Yeah. So like.
• 40:57
  As loud as I can hit a drum. Yeah.
• 40:59
  With these big fucking arms, he's going to be a much
• 41:03
  different maximum loudness from someone else.
• 41:07
  You can only hit it like here. Yeah.
• 41:09
  I think there's a lot to be said about the drummers doing their
• 41:13
  own sampling. 100% the sticks as well.
• 41:16
  The reason I play the rock sticks even though I know they
• 41:18
  slow slow me down is that drum sound better underneath them.
• 41:22
  Yeah, I use either rock sticks or usually 2 BS I think if I
• 41:27
  sample shells and then maybe 5 BS for cymbals.
• 41:30
  Yeah, I've been thinking about going back to five BS for
• 41:34
  playing now I'm not in a band Yeah for like just studio stuff
• 41:38
  because I'm faster yeah, but live I get blisters when I use 5
• 41:43
  BS because they're too small and I'm like holding on for dear
• 41:46
  life but in the studio way faster.
• 41:49
  Or if I, and now I'm a free agent, do whatever the fuck I
• 41:53
  want. 7A's if you want. Definitely not that.
• 41:56
  But like, you know, when you do the sampling, like you, you
• 41:58
  really get you go so granular that you see these differences.
• 42:02
  And actually the stick thing is not a big it's it is a really
• 42:05
  big difference. Like if you are just looking at
• 42:08
  like peak levels and looking at the volume of a drum, like if
• 42:12
  you flip your stick around or move down or up, like it really
• 42:15
  has a noticeable difference, especially to that like top
• 42:17
  level of like how much you can get out of it.
• 42:20
  How don't you think I did? I think you did brilliantly,
• 42:23
  Craig. Thanks very much, I really
• 42:25
  really enjoyed it. It sounds sarcastic.
• 42:28
  No, honestly, like I. It was a good hang as well
• 42:31
  though. It was.
• 42:32
  I think so. You were like hanging with
• 42:33
  Craig, stayed with me. Real worlds close to the to my
• 42:36
  house, staying in my house, hanging with my daughter
• 42:39
  occasionally. Hell.
• 42:40
  Yeah. With my wife.
• 42:41
  Yeah, we were full experienced time until I was too sick and I
• 42:44
  was like, I'm going to take myself away.
• 42:46
  I was unwell afterwards. I know you got it, You can.
• 42:49
  Basically, two people were incredibly unwell.
• 42:52
  For this one, I'm probably sure my wife.
• 42:54
  To come up with it really and child if I remember correctly.
• 42:58
  Yeah, these things happen. I affected an entire family for
• 43:01
  this plugin. I remember it was like, was it 2
• 43:04
  or like 2 days or one day before you were going to come to my
• 43:07
  house to, to do this thing? And you're like, just so you
• 43:10
  know. Yeah, yeah, I'm.
• 43:11
  Starting to get unwell, which I respect.
• 43:13
  You know, it's nice that you did that.
• 43:14
  And there was definitely like, oh man, we are.
• 43:18
  We're going to get this. Yeah, you know, confined, but
• 43:21
  there's two we have in motion. It's already booked.
• 43:23
  Studio time's booked. Yeah, and you know, our
• 43:26
  schedule's not necessarily super easy to line up.
• 43:29
  We didn't know you're about to marry the States.
• 43:31
  I was planning on moving to America and no one knew that.
• 43:34
  Yeah, I don't think that sampling is for everyone like
• 43:38
  the the act of doing it. Yeah, like I say, it's a
• 43:40
  patience game. And I didn't know how you were
• 43:44
  going to find it. And I thought you'd do actually
• 43:46
  really well. And it's it's really fun because
• 43:48
  I think if you really put things under a spotlight when you do
• 43:53
  it, you know your technique. You have to.
• 43:54
  I don't want. I don't want to give away how
• 43:57
  you do it, but you do gamify it for the person.
• 44:00
  Yeah, who's there? So I was having a great time.
• 44:03
  Yeah, it is once you know what the the early sample libraries,
• 44:06
  we didn't have anywhere near as much of A plan.
• 44:09
  And it was kind of like every time we were trying to improve
• 44:12
  and it was taking like up to a year for the thing we just
• 44:16
  sampled to come out. So then it kind of always felt
• 44:19
  that we were trying to play catch up because then it would
• 44:20
  come out and be like, oh man, I wish we'd done this differently.
• 44:24
  But now we're at a point where it's so locked in what we do
• 44:27
  that there's no doubt because there's nothing worse.
• 44:30
  You know, when you if you're doing a really laborious, like,
• 44:34
  boring process and you don't know if it's going to work, that
• 44:38
  is morale crushing, Yeah. But you previously, sorry to
• 44:41
  cut, were you previously just going?
• 44:43
  OK, hit it really loud. OK, hit it really loud.
• 44:46
  OK, hit it really loud. OK, hit it slightly less loud.
• 44:49
  I mean that a little bit in the beginning, yeah, a little bit
• 44:54
  like that. And very much trusting in Matt.
• 44:56
  Matt always did the sampling at the start, like trusting in his
• 44:59
  drummer sense of like getting the velocity.
• 45:01
  There's this interesting thing which is like, I guess it's like
• 45:04
  for like a tennis player, trying to do something like a swing
• 45:07
  from nothing is kind of different than doing it in
• 45:10
  context. And it becomes like, yeah, OK,
• 45:13
  maybe those are the mats, like comfortable hits from nothing.
• 45:15
  But maybe when he's doing like a little ramp up in volume or he's
• 45:19
  doing a specific beat, maybe he's hitting a certain volume
• 45:21
  that just doesn't feel right to do from nothing.
• 45:24
  Yeah. So we needed to, we need to
• 45:26
  figure out like a way of making sure that the whole range was
• 45:29
  captured and then sound. Organic when it gets played.
• 45:32
  Exactly. And a way of communicating that
• 45:34
  wasn't verbal. And then that became like having
• 45:37
  having a screen that the drummer can see.
• 45:39
  And so we're seeing the same thing.
• 45:40
  And then then it became a lot easier.
• 45:42
  And it's just it's just a trust the process thing now of like
• 45:46
  this, this intensity range feels weird to do, but if we don't do
• 45:50
  it, there's just going to be a hole in the middle of the range,
• 45:52
  you know. And so I really like it now that
• 45:55
  we have that set in stone, we rock up, we know exactly what
• 45:58
  we're doing. I've got my spreadsheet, you
• 45:59
  know, we've got the sessions set up with a template and like
• 46:03
  it's, it's great. And I just know, put in a couple
• 46:05
  of hours and you know a symbol will be preserved forever in I.
• 46:10
  Mean that's that's cool. And Speaking of symbols, it's
• 46:13
  the first plug in library that has my signature symbol on it
• 46:16
  and it sounds so good. It's so good.
• 46:18
  And you know what I love? Like I went back to some of the
• 46:21
  videos you were doing like of like when you had solidified the
• 46:25
  design of the downbeat, what was it called originally?
• 46:27
  Because it's the K projection now.
• 46:29
  OK, so I wanted to originally call it the Downbeat Ride,
• 46:32
  obviously, but Downbeat Magazine is a jazz magazine and people
• 46:36
  would have freaked out. So then I wanted to call it the
• 46:39
  Mega Suite. Because it was.
• 46:42
  Essentially much like a suite ride, but it had a three quarter
• 46:47
  size mega belt and Zilgen to their credit were so against
• 46:53
  that idea. I was like, it's going to sell
• 46:55
  so many just based on the name. And they were like, well, we
• 46:57
  have the sweet line and we have the mega line, and we can't put
• 47:00
  a new thing into that line, so let's make a new line.
• 47:04
  Yeah, which is pretty awesome. Which is fucking sick.
• 47:07
  But when it first came out, it was a concept.
• 47:09
  Right. Concept shop, yeah.
• 47:10
  Concept shop and that would have been what we sampled.
• 47:12
  We sampled you have. The one I have the one.
• 47:15
  Because you have very. Kindly left it with me which is
• 47:17
  very sweet. #3 out of 21 lives at yours.
• 47:22
  And that means that if you own the sample library and you go
• 47:27
  back and watch the videos where you're all stoked because it's
• 47:29
  finalized and everyone's chosen that one, it sounds the same it.
• 47:33
  Is exactly. You know, it's the groove that's
• 47:34
  like the guillotine groove in the groove section.
• 47:36
  You can play on that. It's the same hit stop and then
• 47:39
  go to YouTube and hit hit you playing it and it's the same.
• 47:44
  I was so adamant. I don't know if you remember
• 47:47
  when we signed the first thing about me doing a library, it was
• 47:52
  years ago. I know, yeah.
• 47:54
  It was like 2022, maybe 2023. Remember how I said it took us
• 47:58
  six years to get to the point we had our own?
• 48:00
  Yeah, everything is. We're finally now out of that.
• 48:03
  But like, and it was because you've been mixing my stream and
• 48:08
  therefore my YouTube videos and my Instagram videos since 2020.
• 48:13
  Which to be clear, as I sent you a logic session, I don't matter.
• 48:15
  If he's not happy with it because sometimes I accidentally
• 48:18
  change drama or move a fucking microphone, it doesn't sound as
• 48:21
  good as it should. I know that.
• 48:23
  But I think. It always sounds the essential
• 48:26
  tone that is Craig Reynolds is intrinsically from an Ollie mix.
• 48:36
  Across the year, the years where I've like blown up or whatever.
• 48:39
  This 2020 onwards, whenever I started streaming.
• 48:43
  So like I got offers from other drum companies to plug in
• 48:47
  companies to do a plug in library and I was just every
• 48:50
  single one. I was like, it's just not right
• 48:53
  because that's not my sound. It's not going to be my sound.
• 48:56
  And then I spoke to you about it and we'd already talked about it
• 48:58
  and you were like, yeah, we can do it, but it's going to be in
• 49:00
  like 4 years. I don't care somehow.
• 49:03
  I appreciate the loyalty and the patience and I hope it's paid
• 49:06
  off. It absolutely has because now
• 49:07
  you load that up and it's like, it could be one of my drum
• 49:10
  videos. And we should mention to we, we
• 49:13
  had your kit driven down. The Star Maple Yeah Green Custom
• 49:18
  Green 20. 4 When you sent me the first drum rolls, because you
• 49:21
  had me do like I said, I wanted to do like a new Logic mix for
• 49:25
  you. When you got that kit I was
• 49:27
  like, that is you probably the best sounding kick.
• 49:29
  Drum you've ever heard and only said that's the best sound.
• 49:31
  And I've had other people, Ronnie, our sound guy, he's,
• 49:35
  he's like, that's just the best kick I've ever heard in my life.
• 49:37
  It's so and and the comments from the people that have tried
• 49:40
  to plug in have always been really black kick.
• 49:42
  Do you know what I noticed about it?
• 49:44
  So it's the low end on it. If you like boost the low end,
• 49:49
  it's it's crazy like an AOA, like you can get an AOA out of
• 49:54
  it if you just put like a little EQ curve where you really get
• 49:57
  like the resonance, which is crazy for a 14 do.
• 50:00
  You remember how many mics we had on it?
• 50:02
  I can't remember how many mics. It was 55 mics on the kick, I
• 50:06
  think was it 504? There was definitely 2IN.
• 50:10
  No, there was one in and this is the other thing is that we
• 50:12
  actually used. You came down with your mic that
• 50:15
  you use for the stream your beta 91.
• 50:17
  You were adamant, yeah, that I brought the microphone from the
• 50:21
  stream. I forgot about that.
• 50:23
  Yeah, because I was like, this sounds so good and this is your.
• 50:26
  I didn't want in moving your kit from your.
• 50:29
  I think I practiced it as well, yeah.
• 50:32
  You realize like place that however you place.
• 50:33
  It it needs to be that like it needs to be genuine.
• 50:36
  Your kit sounds amazing in the stream.
• 50:37
  I don't want to move it into a multi £1,000,000 studio, record
• 50:41
  it with all the best gear in the world and have it sound worse,
• 50:44
  you know, like. That, I mean, to your credit
• 50:46
  though, that is like the level of artist artistry that is in
• 50:50
  everything you do where it's like, Oh, well, I don't care if
• 50:53
  this is maybe not the most correct way to do something, but
• 50:58
  it is the way that sounds what we're trying to capture.
• 51:01
  Yeah, I mean, I I think maybe there's like a certain producer
• 51:06
  instinct and you probably have it too of like don't mess with
• 51:08
  stuff and it sounds good because otherwise you end up contriving
• 51:11
  stuff and also you end up making everything sound the same.
• 51:13
  I mean, I record all these libraries for the most part and
• 51:17
  sure, my ear tends to take me down a certain Rd., but I do
• 51:20
  make a point to switch things up as well.
• 51:22
  Like, and I'm, I mean, just before doing this podcast, you
• 51:26
  know, it was like an extra 10 minutes to wait around.
• 51:28
  I saw that sounds like a drum channel and put up a new video
• 51:30
  on do you know, sounds like a drum.
• 51:33
  This is not predominantly, is it predominantly drummers that
• 51:36
  watch this? Not anymore, not anymore.
• 51:38
  Well, anyway, if you're a drummer, you should watch sounds
• 51:41
  like a drum. It's run by two guys in New
• 51:42
  York, one of whom used to work at Evans, used to know, and they
• 51:45
  do like so much great educational content about how to
• 51:50
  get the best sound out of your drums and they explore
• 51:52
  everything. But they just put up a video
• 51:54
  about kick drum microphones for people that have never recorded
• 51:57
  before, kind of thing like how the different kick positions
• 51:59
  sound. I watch all that stuff, like I
• 52:02
  will watch the most basic, like drum tuning videos or microphone
• 52:06
  comparisons. I don't know why, but I feel
• 52:10
  like I need to keep watching the basics and figuring out if
• 52:14
  there's something foundational I can change so that the next time
• 52:17
  I'm doing a session, a sample session, or with a client,
• 52:20
  there's like a different way I can do something that's going to
• 52:23
  be exciting, you know? I mean, that's just artistry.
• 52:27
  That goes back to my point. You're always looking for a way
• 52:30
  to evolve what you do. Speaking of which, did you see
• 52:33
  that photo the other day that Frederick Thorne and Doll put on
• 52:36
  his? What the one with the Kelly shoe
• 52:38
  on on? The on the on the battle, Sorry.
• 52:40
  Genius thoughts. I mean, it took me a second and
• 52:44
  then I was like, wow. And that is that is next level.
• 52:47
  I mean, let me be clear. I feel like for a few years
• 52:51
  Frederick's taste in drum sound hasn't been super aligned with
• 52:54
  mine, but I respect it's. Been pretty nasty.
• 52:57
  It's been very like kind of thuddy and woody and yeah, but
• 53:03
  respect. Could you?
• 53:04
  How big do you think that kick drum is?
• 53:05
  Because can you do that with a 22?
• 53:07
  Could you put a Kelly? Sheet on a 22 like a 24.
• 53:10
  Mate I reckon it was like a 30 or something.
• 53:13
  No. OK, maybe I'm.
• 53:15
  Maybe I'd. Who makes a 30?
• 53:17
  I I mix some tracks for a cross faith.
• 53:20
  Do you know how big that guy's kick drum is?
• 53:23
  I think that's. It's got to be a 26.
• 53:25
  No mate, it's at least a 28. No what makes a 28?
• 53:29
  Who makes his drums have? You seen it?
• 53:30
  Oh, I don't know. They're like a Rockstar Japanese
• 53:32
  band. Like it's it's easily, it's
• 53:36
  easily that higher than the rim of his snare drum.
• 53:39
  What were your thoughts on the Frederick Thornton doll kick?
• 53:42
  Well, I don't know anything about fucking recording Nolly.
• 53:45
  You do everything. I put the mics on there and then
• 53:47
  I go Nolly make this sound good. But that's not true.
• 53:49
  I learned everything in 2010 from the Andy Snape Forum and
• 53:54
  that information has just stayed in my head, like where to put
• 53:58
  the microphones. That's it, and that's all I
• 54:00
  know. You know, you know, what I keep
• 54:02
  talking about with people, sometimes on podcasts and
• 54:04
  sometimes not, is there's like weirdly, sometimes the nuances
• 54:09
  of things just don't matter. Like, does it matter if you
• 54:11
  place the mic a bit like this or a bit like that or a bit closer,
• 54:14
  a bit farther? In a way, the essence of the
• 54:16
  sound is already coming off the drum and you're just capturing a
• 54:19
  slightly different angle. But weirdly, the sum total of
• 54:25
  all the fight, the really tiny adjustments does make a
• 54:27
  difference between something being like truly next level or
• 54:30
  not. And I'll describe it.
• 54:32
  It's like nothing you've sent me sounded bad even though you say
• 54:36
  you don't know what you're doing like.
• 54:37
  I looked once at how to mic, how to mic up drums, and then, yeah,
• 54:41
  I guess there was some that's picking up too much high hat,
• 54:45
  let me move where it is and stuff like that.
• 54:48
  But for the most part, just like an inch away from every drum,
• 54:54
  inch and a half away from every drum, it's going to be fine
• 54:56
  pointed about that angle and that's it.
• 54:58
  Yeah, a lot of it is in how I play.
• 55:01
  I tend to play pretty loud and sloppy.
• 55:05
  I was actually going to say I, I remember recording like, because
• 55:09
  when we do the drum samples, you set up the full kit like you're
• 55:11
  going to record, you know, like we, it's not just like one thing
• 55:15
  at a time. So obviously I was sound
• 55:17
  checking you playing and you'd sometimes jump on your kit and
• 55:19
  jam. There was a fun bit that was
• 55:22
  fun. Got a blow off steam sometime.
• 55:24
  Recess in between fucking school lessons.
• 55:28
  You play really consistently, man.
• 55:30
  You do, you don't. Did you start playing Fusion?
• 55:33
  I always, OK, so I started playing rock drums, OK, just
• 55:40
  playing along to Metallica and stuff like that.
• 55:42
  Then I went to ACM, right? And then I saw one day of work
• 55:47
  all video and I was like, I'm sorry, what?
• 55:51
  And then I went on a whole big rabbit hole on fusion while I
• 55:55
  was still playing in metal bands.
• 55:57
  But most of my practice would be fusion stuff.
• 55:59
  That's kind of where my feet never really got really really
• 56:01
  fast. I feel like I missed out on the
• 56:04
  hours of shed work required to get that because I was too busy
• 56:08
  like perfecting my 6 stroke role so it sounded like fusion songs.
• 56:11
  So I went down a massive fusion rabbit hole there.
• 56:14
  I think that was a good trade off personally.
• 56:17
  Thanks. I think that's probably what got
• 56:20
  me into Stray was like when they were looking for dramas.
• 56:24
  And obviously it was a bit of luck where I happened to comment
• 56:26
  on Tom's post on Facebook in 2014 when their drama had left
• 56:33
  and he was like, oh, what about him?
• 56:34
  But it was because my videos weren't just metal stuff.
• 56:37
  It was like playing along with a fusion track.
• 56:39
  So and that was born of that one.
• 56:44
  I think the I saw, I saw the Morgan Agra and Frederick Thorne
• 56:49
  now video that video before I knew about fusion music.
• 56:54
  So it was like, I saw that and I was like, Oh my God, I didn't
• 56:57
  know you could you're allowed to play like that with metal.
• 57:00
  And then when I saw fusion after that, I was like, oh, that's
• 57:03
  really cool. And then I just tried to bring
• 57:05
  that into my playing more of the like wacky fusion stuff.
• 57:10
  But it's it's cool because there's like a control to your
• 57:12
  playing. Like obviously Weckel is not
• 57:15
  just technically and like, you know, intellectually incredible,
• 57:20
  but very controlled, like, you know, comes from the era of
• 57:22
  order to tape and just being a drum machine dynamic master,
• 57:25
  right? Like you, you have really good
• 57:26
  dynamics. I think thank you.
• 57:28
  I think the other thing with that is came from almost
• 57:32
  circling back to when it was like I recorded about four bands
• 57:35
  when I was doing engineering and I realized the thing I didn't
• 57:38
  like doing was editing drums. And no one ever came prepared
• 57:41
  enough for me not to edit drums. So Fast forward to streaming and
• 57:47
  getting that Logic blank template from you.
• 57:53
  It was just on my mind to just get as tight as possible because
• 57:57
  then I don't have to do as much work.
• 57:59
  Like the two hours it would take me to edit a song could just be
• 58:03
  two hours of practicing the song to get it right in the first
• 58:06
  place. And I remember also, I think at
• 58:09
  that time you were saying that like just the act of doing the
• 58:13
  streams, just playing for a few hours and with an audience just
• 58:17
  as a routine thing did so much for like your fluency.
• 58:20
  And I can't wait to go back to that.
• 58:22
  Even like I noticed it on this last tour.
• 58:26
  I got pre show nerves and 1st 3 song jitters pretty consistently
• 58:33
  across the whole tour, whereas when I was streaming more
• 58:36
  frequently, obviously because I've moved, it's taken a while
• 58:39
  to get the drum run. It's coming.
• 58:40
  The performance anxiety had disappeared in most tours from
• 58:46
  2022 to 24. Like a day-to-day thing you do
• 58:49
  anyway. Yeah, because I do it anyway.
• 58:50
  But then also anyone watching who was a drummer, who knows who
• 58:56
  I am, who could possibly be waiting for a mistake or the
• 58:59
  only person that would notice a mistake in my head.
• 59:02
  I'd be like, well, those people obviously watch all my streams.
• 59:06
  They've seen me fuck up so many times, like it doesn't matter.
• 59:10
  And then even just the thought of that sort of relaxation of
• 59:13
  like, oh, it doesn't matter, would make them make me play
• 59:15
  really good. I mean, yeah, weirdly, isn't it?
• 59:17
  There's like a continuous narrative then in your head of
• 59:19
  like, oh, it's fine, like these same people.
• 59:22
  Yeah. It's not a one one time occasion
• 59:24
  playing in front of a drum. Nerd But I didn't have that this
• 59:27
  time, right? It was very much like these
• 59:29
  people haven't seen me play drums in a long time.
• 59:31
  Yeah, I've got to be good. It's a new album and all that
• 59:33
  stuff. I had quite a lot of jitters.
• 59:36
  First 3 songs, First one song, the first track, which was
• 59:42
  Kubrick Stair, which is so busy on the high hats and splashes
• 59:45
  and the breakdown is crazy. I would say out of 31 shows, I
• 59:48
  think I probably played it 10 out of 10 once.
• 59:51
  I think I could tell you it was Manchester.
• 59:53
  Yeah, really fucking nailed it in Manchester.
• 59:55
  But there was some other songs where it's just like, I haven't
• 59:58
  warmed up enough. I've warmed up too much.
• 1:00:00
  Warm up too much. Warm up too much?
• 1:00:02
  Yeah. What?
• 1:00:03
  Tie yourself out. Or not.
• 1:00:04
  Really too fast. Sweaty hand.
• 1:00:07
  OK like got to the stage there was 1 show where my hair was
• 1:00:12
  very long on this tour because I couldn't find a fucking Barber.
• 1:00:14
  As we mentioned the beginning of the podcast and I like wet my
• 1:00:18
  hair before before I went on stage because it was didn't look
• 1:00:21
  good and I hadn't washed my hair in about a week.
• 1:00:26
  And I got to the sticks and my fucking hands were sweat like
• 1:00:29
  greasy. So would you say that was style
• 1:00:31
  over substance in that? Moment it was 100% style over.
• 1:00:34
  Serving by the Nashville motto. And I didn't have that.
• 1:00:37
  I like Nashville. Let me just put I love.
• 1:00:39
  Nashville, I, I'm all about it. I just wish you can't even trust
• 1:00:42
  a Yelp review here. There's, there's, there's a lot
• 1:00:45
  of places that look fantastic and everyone's like, this is the
• 1:00:49
  best place in town. And then I go and I'm like, I've
• 1:00:52
  had better. Do you know what I noticed when
• 1:00:53
  I come to Nashville? What Everyone talks about food
• 1:00:57
  constantly. You meet people and all the
• 1:01:00
  Nashville people just talk about the restaurants they've been to.
• 1:01:03
  Have you been to this place or this place?
• 1:01:05
  Like in general, I think it's more of a thing in the States,
• 1:01:08
  but in Nashville particularly, it's like all people do is go.
• 1:01:11
  I feel like every time me and Madison bump into someone, yeah,
• 1:01:14
  they're like, have you guys done this?
• 1:01:15
  Have you got? And we're like, no, because we,
• 1:01:17
  like, tried a few of those and they weren't great.
• 1:01:20
  Yeah. And then we found our like 5
• 1:01:21
  that we love. So we do need to try other
• 1:01:24
  places, but when you find, I feel like the quality in general
• 1:01:28
  in America, maybe it's just in Nashville, the quality hasn't
• 1:01:32
  been there, particularly sushi now because Tom Stray has lived
• 1:01:37
  here for almost 10 years now. He was constantly like a hardly
• 1:01:41
  a good sushi in Nashville. And then now you can you can get
• 1:01:45
  medium good sushi, which the Nashville natives think is the
• 1:01:50
  most unbelievable thing on earth.
• 1:01:51
  And then there's maybe two or three spots that are like, OK,
• 1:01:53
  this is actually world class issue.
• 1:01:55
  Not going to name drop any of them.
• 1:01:57
  When we were recording and you were talking about moving to the
• 1:01:59
  States, I felt like that was a weird, not not weird.
• 1:02:03
  Sorry. I wasn't judging your decision,
• 1:02:04
  but I was like, I wonder how crazy is going to get out there?
• 1:02:06
  I always saw you as like proper British lad.
• 1:02:08
  And I was like, what's he going to?
• 1:02:10
  How's he going to do it? And then now seeing a, seeing
• 1:02:13
  how well you've done with it and like, thanks to just thinking
• 1:02:17
  about it more, you're like the perfect person to move to the
• 1:02:20
  States. Why?
• 1:02:21
  Because, OK, thinking about like, the things that define the
• 1:02:24
  American kind of social psyche. OK.
• 1:02:29
  A bit of rebellious cool, someone who is clearly quite,
• 1:02:36
  you know what? Like I always feel like in a
• 1:02:38
  very good way, you've never afraid to like speak your mind.
• 1:02:41
  You're like someone who's quite individualistic.
• 1:02:43
  I don't mean, I don't mean egotistical, but I can see
• 1:02:45
  you're like very self-contained you.
• 1:02:46
  Can tell you egotistical well, definitely.
• 1:02:48
  That's what I mean in this case. But it's definitely there.
• 1:02:51
  You know, but like, you're a self-contained guy, you know,
• 1:02:53
  and you're and American Dream, like you're a Griff, not
• 1:02:57
  grifter, grafter. Grafter is what I'm trying to
• 1:03:00
  say, not grifter. Someone who works hard, comes up
• 1:03:03
  with concepts. You're kind of entrepreneurial
• 1:03:05
  and you turn things into success.
• 1:03:06
  It's like, man, you are. Thanks.
• 1:03:08
  Bro perfect American dream why I'm fucking.
• 1:03:10
  Here, wish I could get a good fucking Barber.
• 1:03:13
  Other than that, thanks, appreciate.
• 1:03:15
  It it's interesting because it's a lot of those traits are not
• 1:03:19
  like what I think of when I think of southern British.
• 1:03:21
  It's definitely not what most of the people I grew up around are
• 1:03:24
  like there's a lot more meekness and especially I I mentioned
• 1:03:29
  like the cooling things like you see it not being afraid to speak
• 1:03:32
  your mind. That's like very anti British,
• 1:03:35
  kind of like so many people, at least around Bath would.
• 1:03:38
  Just anti American as well though.
• 1:03:40
  Is it? Yeah, really.
• 1:03:43
  Free speech. I mean free.
• 1:03:45
  Speech is if. I don't say anything crazy like
• 1:03:47
  that, but like I think in a restaurant in America.
• 1:03:50
  Do you think Pi don't know if someone's unhappy with their
• 1:03:56
  food in America? Do you think they've how they
• 1:03:58
  would complain about it? I used to go back at myself.
• 1:04:01
  Thoughts, America? I feel like Americans are very
• 1:04:03
  outspoken. That's like.
• 1:04:04
  One of the most. Stereotypical things about us is
• 1:04:09
  that we don't shut the fuck up. One thing I did notice though,
• 1:04:11
  was a lot of people like I. I don't think I've changed at
• 1:04:15
  all from moving here as a person, except for maybe my
• 1:04:19
  haircut because they couldn't do my haircut properly right back
• 1:04:22
  to the hair always there. But I have seen the odd comment
• 1:04:27
  where people have been like someone even said like the Trump
• 1:04:31
  of vacation of Craig Reynolds like, and it's just people
• 1:04:35
  looking for things that aren't even there.
• 1:04:37
  Like it's fucking crazy. Well, yeah, I mean, we've got
• 1:04:40
  this capping all over the world, haven't we?
• 1:04:41
  Of like there's people that want to make a comment and they're
• 1:04:44
  just signalling to a specific audience.
• 1:04:46
  They're not even the validity of the comment doesn't even make
• 1:04:49
  sense. They're just trying to get there
• 1:04:50
  before anyone else. I call it.
• 1:04:52
  Kind of so fucking yeah. It's a whole different
• 1:04:54
  conversation. Which is a shame, isn't it?
• 1:04:56
  We're going to cut. Can I grab a monster?
• 1:04:58
  You can do it. In fact, Simon, this isn't the
• 1:05:02
  cut I want this bit in the podcast.
• 1:05:06
  Just a wide angle of her struggling, struggling to get a
• 1:05:11
  monster. Focus ruined.
• 1:05:15
  Mode Monster 0 break. What are you getting?
• 1:05:19
  You getting our three main beans.
• 1:05:22
  Three main beans on the go. All right, we covered the
• 1:05:25
  shells. Yeah, we've covered the symbols.
• 1:05:27
  So you start Maple kit, we said. The kick sounds amazing, but the
• 1:05:29
  Toms are amazing too. Toms are amazing. 12 by 816 by
• 1:05:33
  1418 by 16. But generally that kit just
• 1:05:36
  sounds. It's unreal.
• 1:05:37
  It's currently on a boat. Come here because I've finished
• 1:05:41
  that tour. It was my euro kit.
• 1:05:42
  You didn't send on a nice cruise.
• 1:05:44
  No, it wasn't a they sent it on the Titanic.
• 1:05:46
  No, it's on its way here. And you know what's funny?
• 1:05:48
  I'm going to have such a hilariously big kit.
• 1:05:52
  Now I'm thinking about trying to think of a way to set it all up.
• 1:05:55
  Do you have more shell? We had the 20.
• 1:05:57
  Yeah, yes. So I have 22/13/16 over here
• 1:06:02
  already, OK, from the same kit because town made me another 13
• 1:06:06
  and a 16 so I could fly the 22 home.
• 1:06:09
  So now I'm going to have 22241213161618.
• 1:06:17
  So I'm thinking about going 24 with a double kick on it.
• 1:06:22
  A 22 here just for the just for the look, yeah.
• 1:06:26
  Just for the annoyance of. The annoyance of another thing.
• 1:06:28
  And then 12131616 tuned exactly the same so I could do a fast
• 1:06:35
  roll between the two. And why are you laughing?
• 1:06:38
  I mean, just that it's kind of ridiculous, but yeah.
• 1:06:41
  But like, think about how I lose power here going like that, but
• 1:06:45
  I'd be able to go digger, digger, digger, digger.
• 1:06:48
  Is that an engineering nightmare?
• 1:06:49
  No, no, no. It's just it's quite far away
• 1:06:52
  from set up. Normal.
• 1:06:54
  It's quite far away from normal. It's the fact they're the.
• 1:06:56
  Same and then an 18 or the other option is to just go 2412131618
• 1:07:04
  and then the 22 is a gong. Yeah.
• 1:07:07
  Above that, I don't know. Let me see what looks cool.
• 1:07:10
  It's going to look cool. It's going to look fucking
• 1:07:12
  massive. You know that when people do
• 1:07:14
  like rack Toms like the other way around, you know what I
• 1:07:17
  mean? When they do like the big, the
• 1:07:18
  bigger rack on them. For a right-handed drummer, I.
• 1:07:21
  Think the guy from Avenged Sevenfold does that.
• 1:07:23
  If you guys do that, oh, Chad, good old Chad.
• 1:07:26
  Brooks. Brooks, Chad's dad.
• 1:07:27
  Oh the Wacker man. Chad's Frank Zappa, I mean.
• 1:07:30
  That Isn't that just the best name for a drummer?
• 1:07:32
  Wacker man, Wacker man. It's almost like when people
• 1:07:36
  were called like John Butcher because his father was a butcher
• 1:07:41
  and he's a butcher. It's like Dad Wack.
• 1:07:44
  He's a Wacker man, OK? And he's a Wacker man.
• 1:07:46
  Well, anyway, I don't know if he does but but I remember when we
• 1:07:49
  did a brief run with Deftones, which is around corner Jokhan
• 1:07:53
  Abe had his Tom set up. You.
• 1:07:54
  Told me Deftones Periphery Deftones.
• 1:07:56
  Yeah. Damn, that's cool.
• 1:07:59
  It must have been 2014 or. Something.
• 1:08:00
  Are you still in periphery? No, the boys, but I'm not in the
• 1:08:05
  band. You were like, involved.
• 1:08:07
  But not in any real way. Just recording.
• 1:08:10
  Yeah, just recording and friends, you know, I still, I'll
• 1:08:14
  play on their records. They don't seem to want to have
• 1:08:16
  another person. So you play the bass on their
• 1:08:18
  records? I do.
• 1:08:19
  And you're still involved in recording?
• 1:08:21
  Yeah, but you're not in the band.
• 1:08:22
  No, I just get to do the best bit, so I cherry pick the bit
• 1:08:24
  that I like. You don't like touring?
• 1:08:26
  I don't have to run a company. On the road, yeah.
• 1:08:29
  You know. I wonder how the other two do
• 1:08:31
  it. Yeah, probably.
• 1:08:33
  Fucking hate it. Well, I mean perfectly hasn't
• 1:08:37
  been super active. I mean, I've done.
• 1:08:40
  Some tours, I mean three tours this year I think.
• 1:08:43
  I think this is like the most active they've been for a while.
• 1:08:47
  Is that why you quit? You didn't like touring?
• 1:08:49
  Yeah, yeah, I think so. And plus, I don't know, it was
• 1:08:51
  just that age. I'd, I'd met my future wife,
• 1:08:55
  nothing to do with her wanting me to.
• 1:08:57
  But like, I was kind of like already thinking I wanted to do
• 1:08:59
  the studio thing. I want to have the opportunity.
• 1:09:01
  I was starting to get banned. Opportunities to work with and
• 1:09:05
  fitting around touring wasn't really working that well.
• 1:09:08
  I kind of felt like I wanted to dedicate myself to that and
• 1:09:11
  then, you know, met my future wife and still didn't have a
• 1:09:14
  place of my own back in England because I was spending so much
• 1:09:17
  time in the States. And you lived in the South,
• 1:09:19
  which is very expensive to live. Sure.
• 1:09:21
  Yeah, it just felt like I hadn't quite gotten started on the
• 1:09:26
  adult thing. I've just kind of been away all
• 1:09:27
  the time. And so there was just enough
• 1:09:30
  factors, really, that's what it was.
• 1:09:31
  And plus the fact that it was a cool conversation with them that
• 1:09:36
  it, it wasn't like slamming the door and never going to speak to
• 1:09:40
  you again. It was quite the opposite.
• 1:09:41
  It was like, actually, we're all open to figuring this out to.
• 1:09:44
  Slap him on the MacBook. Yeah, which is fine.
• 1:09:47
  I think they've actually used my bass sample library.
• 1:09:51
  Really. For some of the live backing
• 1:09:54
  tracks for all the songs. Oh redid it with.
• 1:09:57
  Yeah, because I did. When I left, I did played
• 1:10:02
  through all the songs that were were in the live rotation.
• 1:10:05
  I did like a new performance of them, which is across multiple
• 1:10:08
  albums and kind of with one tone.
• 1:10:09
  So they could use that. And I think a couple more times
• 1:10:12
  when they added songs I'd track something.
• 1:10:14
  But then I think beyond that, they've either used like the
• 1:10:17
  album tone for the most recent stuff or for the old stuff
• 1:10:20
  they've just done me as MIDI. Can I share a little cute story?
• 1:10:26
  I hadn't seen you, So what? I hadn't seen you in about 10
• 1:10:30
  years, since the since when we recorded this library.
• 1:10:34
  I don't think I'd seen you in 10 years.
• 1:10:35
  I think we figured it out eight years, 10 years or something.
• 1:10:38
  Yeah, because you were still living in.
• 1:10:39
  Reading. Yeah.
• 1:10:40
  You'd only just met your future wife.
• 1:10:44
  I have to share this story because it was very cute.
• 1:10:47
  And I think I remember telling Madison immediately.
• 1:10:50
  So I get in the car, you pick me up from the airport.
• 1:10:51
  I haven't seen you. You know, obviously by this
• 1:10:54
  point you're married, and I know all that.
• 1:10:55
  But I get in the car, she phones, you start speaking
• 1:11:01
  Spanish and I remember going, that's kind of crazy.
• 1:11:05
  And then you just speak fluent Spanish back, whole
• 1:11:10
  conversation, like 10 minute conversation in the car in full
• 1:11:13
  Spanish and then you hang up. Sorry about that.
• 1:11:15
  And I was like, bro, you are fluent in Spanish.
• 1:11:19
  And you were like, yeah, I, you know, I, when we were started
• 1:11:22
  getting together, I was like, I wanted to learn our language.
• 1:11:25
  You learned her entire language. That's like the most romantic
• 1:11:28
  thing I've ever heard. Oh, that's really sweet.
• 1:11:31
  I mean, you know, we didn't have a plan when we got together as
• 1:11:35
  to like where we were going to settle.
• 1:11:37
  So it wasn't, I mean, we ended up settling in a bit.
• 1:11:39
  It could, I guess it's gone the other way.
• 1:11:41
  And yeah, she was better. She spoke pretty good English.
• 1:11:46
  She's now, of course, completely fluent.
• 1:11:47
  My Spanish was, you know, AS level.
• 1:11:52
  It's still. Pretty.
• 1:11:53
  It's still pretty high though. But yeah, well, like when we
• 1:11:56
  started, but then Duolingo is pretty recently a thing and I
• 1:11:59
  was on tour and there wasn't much to do.
• 1:12:01
  And then I'd be like trying it out.
• 1:12:02
  And yeah, I don't know. I it's, it's, yeah, it's
• 1:12:07
  something I'm proud of for sure, Like learning fully fluently.
• 1:12:12
  Well, it's a dialect of Spanish as well, because she's Chilean,
• 1:12:15
  and Chilean Spanish is like the Scottish.
• 1:12:18
  Really it's. A very thick accent, A whole
• 1:12:22
  different vernacular of slang. So your particular Spanish
• 1:12:25
  speaking is Chilean. It's Chilean, Yeah.
• 1:12:28
  And it's, I mean, it's, it's quite slurred as well, like some
• 1:12:32
  accents are very well pronounced.
• 1:12:34
  Much like the Scottish. Yeah.
• 1:12:36
  So literally like, I think it's a place that people go that are
• 1:12:40
  considered advanced speakers that want to really test
• 1:12:43
  themselves because it's like you have the least auditory
• 1:12:46
  information to work on. So I'm, I'm proud of that.
• 1:12:50
  I mean, I can I speak with that dialect because that's what I've
• 1:12:53
  learned, you know? But you'd appreciate.
• 1:12:56
  It's a bit like, yeah, like you're meeting a partner of one
• 1:13:02
  of your friends and they just sound fully Scottish and they
• 1:13:05
  use all the slang and, and then you're and then you're like, oh,
• 1:13:09
  of course you know, they're Scottish.
• 1:13:11
  And then they're like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm German or
• 1:13:13
  something, Yeah. I often think I can pick out.
• 1:13:17
  I'm pretty good at picking out people's English accents.
• 1:13:20
  So if someone is speaking in English but they're from, say,
• 1:13:24
  Germany, I can pretty quickly pick up, like, did you learn
• 1:13:30
  English in Birmingham? And then they'll go, I learned,
• 1:13:33
  yeah, I lived in Birmingham and I was like, yeah, I can hear it.
• 1:13:35
  Like it's funny. That happened to me the other
• 1:13:37
  day. My personal best ever was
• 1:13:40
  someone speaking. It was in Holland and they were
• 1:13:45
  talking, they were speaking Dutch and then they were
• 1:13:47
  speaking English. And I was like, are you Dutch or
• 1:13:52
  are you from New Zealand? And they were like, Oh my God,
• 1:13:56
  no, I'm Dutch, but I like, I learned.
• 1:13:59
  I moved to New Zealand for three years and that's where I learned
• 1:14:01
  English. And I was like, yeah, I'm
• 1:14:02
  fucking fucking fucking get a completely useless talent.
• 1:14:07
  Well, other than just like kicking up a good conversation
• 1:14:10
  with someone. Well, you know, they do say that
• 1:14:11
  like being able to pick up, like linguistics are pretty related
• 1:14:14
  in a way to musicality as well, like ability to.
• 1:14:17
  Yeah, if you think about it, it is the brain interpreting sound
• 1:14:20
  in a way. And the kind of mimicry that we
• 1:14:23
  do with our instruments like hearing something and be able to
• 1:14:25
  replicate it is obviously, you know, I'm talking about using
• 1:14:28
  your voice in that case, but there's a, there's a listening
• 1:14:30
  skill there that is related it's.
• 1:14:32
  So interesting because I can do it when we're watching a show
• 1:14:35
  like another person or best Madison or remember this what?
• 1:14:40
  We were just flexing my absolutely useless talent here.
• 1:14:43
  We were watching pretty often. We'll be watching something in
• 1:14:47
  someone's got an American accent, and then I'll go, sounds
• 1:14:54
  like that person is actually from Bristol, but they're doing
• 1:14:59
  an American accent. And then Madison will Google it
• 1:15:03
  and she'll be like, to quote Nollie's hometown.
• 1:15:07
  She'll be like, where's Bath? And I'll be like fucking right
• 1:15:10
  next to Bristol. And I fucking nail it.
• 1:15:12
  Every accent is very different. I mean, I mean don't take away
• 1:15:15
  from. Here it's Southwestern accent.
• 1:15:19
  Yeah, it's a man. The UK is crazy, isn't it?
• 1:15:21
  Like you can drive from like 2 hours Bristol to Bath which is
• 1:15:24
  20 minutes, Yeah. 20 minutes. Yeah.
• 1:15:27
  Different accent. Yeah, it's so.
• 1:15:28
  Different. I mean, I don't think I could
• 1:15:29
  pick those two apart. I don't think.
• 1:15:31
  Yeah, you. Could Bristol sound like a
• 1:15:33
  pirate versus Yes, the pirate accent is the Bristolian.
• 1:15:38
  Accent. Yeah, but you know what's funny?
• 1:15:39
  I always think it's really funny is Reading.
• 1:15:41
  Reading is literally if a Bristol accent and a London
• 1:15:45
  accent had a baby, we have some of the same all right, guys.
• 1:15:48
  Like we have that, We have that. Yeah, but we've all right, mate.
• 1:15:53
  Like it's still London in there. I always feel like reading is
• 1:15:56
  lesson, like an accent and more an attitude.
• 1:16:00
  Reading fucking sucks but I love it.
• 1:16:02
  So the same Madison's from Cleveland and it has this like.
• 1:16:07
  There's this weird, deep pride that you have.
• 1:16:10
  You have to have it. Especially.
• 1:16:12
  From Cleveland. Though I've got that about
• 1:16:14
  reading, reading, reading and Cleveland very similar.
• 1:16:17
  I mean, Reading has spawned some really big bands and I always
• 1:16:21
  thought it was like close enough to London but small enough to
• 1:16:25
  have its own seas big. Well, Silosis is now Tesseract.
• 1:16:30
  No, wait, Tesseract and Milton Keynes, aren't they?
• 1:16:32
  There's some reading in there, Jason reading or this one.
• 1:16:35
  Yeah, just outside and. I mean, there was obviously you
• 1:16:39
  guys had at a certain point it was.
• 1:16:42
  Like there was a. Red Sea.
• 1:16:43
  Like I think silos isn't silos isn't the only true reading
• 1:16:47
  export that really made it out. But at the time there was like
• 1:16:51
  exit 10M4 massive. I mean, Newbury, if you if you
• 1:16:55
  include Newbury in that, you've got Jordan Fish.
• 1:16:57
  You've got, you know, other than that, we've got Ricky Gervais
• 1:17:03
  and Natalie Dormer. That's about the 20.
• 1:17:06
  And Jeremy Kyle, he's a ready boy.
• 1:17:09
  Fuck yeah. Without that, Jeremy Kyle was
• 1:17:11
  odd. Madison looks so confused.
• 1:17:14
  Jeremy Kyle is our Jerry Springer.
• 1:17:17
  I was more like Natalie Dormer. Yeah, from Hunger Games I.
• 1:17:24
  Love that bitch, shout out Natalie.
• 1:17:26
  Shout out Natalie, she's ready. She's ready.
• 1:17:28
  Oh, Kate Winslet as well. Really.
• 1:17:31
  I played the drums with Kate Winslet's dad in a pub once.
• 1:17:37
  Like a jam night in a pub. It was like, anyone can get up.
• 1:17:40
  And I did like a little Blues jam with this old lad on guitar.
• 1:17:44
  And afterwards someone was like, you know how that is?
• 1:17:45
  I was like, I don't know, that's Kate Winslet's dad.
• 1:17:47
  And I was like, fuck, yeah, that means I was in Titanic.
• 1:17:50
  That's that's that's as much as that.
• 1:17:52
  Oh, we need to talk about the plug in more.
• 1:17:53
  And then I need to ask you other things.
• 1:17:55
  All right. Sure.
• 1:17:55
  We haven't talked about snares. Yeah.
• 1:17:57
  What do we use? Well, the one that you really
• 1:17:59
  wanted to make sure was in there was your bell bras, wasn't it
• 1:18:01
  your timer with with the VK hoops like that?
• 1:18:04
  With the VK hoops which are suicide for a drama to play
• 1:18:09
  those, I honestly think I've broken my thumb once just from
• 1:18:14
  playing the that hoop too much. I.
• 1:18:17
  Mean it's outrageous how heavy they.
• 1:18:19
  Are and there's no shock absorption?
• 1:18:20
  No, it just goes straight to stick.
• 1:18:22
  Because people go, I think because of this whole like bell
• 1:18:25
  brass thing, people think that brass and bronze are really
• 1:18:29
  similar. Right, but, but.
• 1:18:30
  Bronze is a whole different thing.
• 1:18:32
  Yeah, Bell brass is technically bronze.
• 1:18:34
  Yeah. I think that's just one of those
• 1:18:35
  like Japanese company kind of using some.
• 1:18:39
  Technically, we're using a bronze snare.
• 1:18:41
  It's a bronze snare, yeah, but it's a bell.
• 1:18:42
  Brass, but because they call it bell brass, it somehow feels
• 1:18:45
  like it's on a continuum with like a black beauty or.
• 1:18:47
  Something which is absolutely not.
• 1:18:49
  No. And bronze is really hard.
• 1:18:52
  Like that's why there was a Bronze Age and people made
• 1:18:54
  weapons out of it. But they didn't do that with
• 1:18:56
  brass, which is really soft. There was no brass.
• 1:18:58
  Age. So yeah, smacking a chunk of
• 1:19:01
  bronze. I'm pretty sure I broke a thumb
• 1:19:03
  like a like just a stress fracture from streaming on that
• 1:19:06
  drum for so long. It's why I sort of kind of why I
• 1:19:09
  retired it for a bit. And even now I think, I think
• 1:19:13
  undoubtedly it sounds better with the hoops on.
• 1:19:16
  That's why we did it. You get that?
• 1:19:18
  I mean, you hit those hoops on their own and they make a Zeal
• 1:19:21
  bell sound, so transfer that to a rimshot.
• 1:19:25
  But I've put the die casts back on the bell brass now just
• 1:19:29
  because of my hands can't take it.
• 1:19:31
  I don't know if I'm getting old. Because I've got a VK with the
• 1:19:33
  bronze hoops and I remember at one point being like this thing
• 1:19:36
  is so rigid I wonder how many like tension rods I actually
• 1:19:40
  need and just started taking them out.
• 1:19:42
  You can literally just have two. I will tell you this, the bottom
• 1:19:45
  of my VK or the bottom of my bell brass that had VK hoops on
• 1:19:49
  it, there was about four on. They'd fall out and I wouldn't
• 1:19:52
  even know you. Wouldn't notice.
• 1:19:53
  Yeah, it's just it doesn't move. We cranked that guy pretty hard.
• 1:19:57
  Yeah, we did. Yeah.
• 1:19:57
  That was the highest. You know we did, doesn't.
• 1:19:59
  It and I'm super stoked on that because I don't think there is a
• 1:20:01
  lot of drum plug insurance out there with that kind of ping.
• 1:20:07
  Yeah, from a like a net or library.
• 1:20:09
  I'm really happy with it too. Actually.
• 1:20:10
  I think it's come out really balanced sounding in the plug
• 1:20:13
  in, really articulate and and it's again with a bell bronze.
• 1:20:16
  One of the cool things is you still get body.
• 1:20:19
  Yeah, like it's really high, but it's not like it's gone all thin
• 1:20:22
  and choked out. Well, I remember when me and you
• 1:20:24
  shot out the DW Bell brass, which is technically actual
• 1:20:28
  brass, the Tamber Bell brass which is bronze, and the Gretsch
• 1:20:33
  1 and we shot them all out and it was really, really
• 1:20:37
  interesting to see the waveform. Do you remember?
• 1:20:41
  We looked at the waveform and we shot them all out in my parents
• 1:20:44
  house and the amount of information in the waveform for
• 1:20:51
  the bronze, the Tam of bell grass was so much more.
• 1:20:55
  It was just thicker. It was crazy to just see.
• 1:20:59
  Yeah, I mean, I guess they make bells because they that material
• 1:21:01
  generates so many overtones, right?
• 1:21:03
  Like it makes this really loud clang.
• 1:21:04
  It's crazy. So that's the main snare.
• 1:21:06
  That's the main snare and then I fought to have a second snare.
• 1:21:10
  So we recorded 4 drums and we picked. 4 snares.
• 1:21:15
  Four Yeah, sorry, 4 snares and we picked the. 2.
• 1:21:18
  The two best one, Well initially it was just going to be the one
• 1:21:21
  best 1 and I really fucking I was not happy not being able to
• 1:21:26
  have two. Context.
• 1:21:27
  It's called one Kit Wonder. I know right?
• 1:21:30
  But they were so good. I mean, look, I back it.
• 1:21:32
  So there's two drums in the plugin.
• 1:21:35
  They were both actually sampled in the main snare position, yes.
• 1:21:38
  So although the second drum, which we'll talk about in a
• 1:21:40
  moment, is off to the side as though it's one kit, when you
• 1:21:44
  hear it, it's basically another main snare sound that you can
• 1:21:46
  use. So it's kind of like an
• 1:21:48
  alternate snare. And it's lower chain, it's.
• 1:21:50
  Was the lowest of the ones I think.
• 1:21:52
  Oh no, maybe. Maybe the copper was.
• 1:21:53
  Lower the copper was lower but this one.
• 1:21:56
  So this was a is a variation on a * reserve aluminium aluminium.
• 1:22:02
  Aluminium. Different hoops, different
• 1:22:05
  strainer, some modifications to it.
• 1:22:08
  Maybe the modifications will become a different thing with my
• 1:22:11
  name on it one day, but we did that and they were just.
• 1:22:16
  Those two were so different, but so good.
• 1:22:18
  I loved that aluminium snare. Like I feel like aluminium is on
• 1:22:22
  the way up, you know, stop. What it is?
• 1:22:25
  Aluminium snares. What I really like about it is
• 1:22:27
  it's essentially a bell brass but made with aluminium.
• 1:22:32
  It's three mil shell. Don't know if it's cast, but
• 1:22:37
  it's. I think those are.
• 1:22:38
  Yeah, I think aluminium's a lot cheaper to cast than bronze, so
• 1:22:45
  it's like it's ugly little brother.
• 1:22:49
  But it's got I guess because it's lighter weight, it
• 1:22:51
  resonates a lot more and where we tuned it, I loved how it
• 1:22:54
  sounded when it came out because it just like there's such like a
• 1:22:57
  kind of meaty like sound underneath it's.
• 1:23:00
  Funny, it's like when I was doing the grooves for the pack,
• 1:23:05
  some of them, I don't know, I think I'd probably put them all
• 1:23:08
  on one drum. Yeah.
• 1:23:10
  But I think when playing them and when using the plug in
• 1:23:16
  afterwards, I was moving some of the like bigger beefier drum
• 1:23:21
  beats to that second snare instead because you just get
• 1:23:24
  that low end from it. Yeah, and they're still in a
• 1:23:26
  similar Sonic world. You know, it's I do really like
• 1:23:31
  actually, I feel like that thing of having two different main
• 1:23:34
  snare sounds makes the plug in it gives it like a longevity and
• 1:23:38
  like a versatility. Oh yeah, For the price it's
• 1:23:41
  going to be at like you are getting essentially in my head,
• 1:23:44
  it's the one with the aluminium snare is like, yeah, you know,
• 1:23:51
  super processed metal core beef sound.
• 1:23:54
  And then you can with the bell blast, you can get that sort of
• 1:23:57
  dirtier, faster, more aggressive ping on it.
• 1:24:01
  And you do use both of those kind of tuning ranges.
• 1:24:04
  That was the that was what sold it on me is like I know from
• 1:24:06
  your streams you do change out your drums.
• 1:24:08
  Sometimes you will have a higher tuned thing and sometimes.
• 1:24:11
  You have not by design. It's just it goes out of tunes
• 1:24:14
  and I just leave it and I go that sounds kind of good.
• 1:24:17
  Or I change the head and I'm like, this is tuned pretty low.
• 1:24:19
  It's quite nice. What do we use?
• 1:24:21
  You use the heavyweight drives, didn't we?
• 1:24:22
  On heavyweight dry on those we use the which?
• 1:24:25
  I really like. UV.
• 1:24:27
  Twos. Twos on the Toms and the UV or?
• 1:24:31
  The UVEQ. 4 The UVE Q4 on the kick which I desperately want
• 1:24:36
  them to make A2 ply version of. Do you go through them?
• 1:24:39
  I can't use them live because I go through them, yeah.
• 1:24:41
  But even 27 boys. Yeah, in in the studio I have
• 1:24:45
  just the standing up bits. Yeah, I broke 2 sets of pedals
• 1:24:48
  on the store. OK, Fair enough.
• 1:24:49
  Yeah. I broke a pair of vine cobras
• 1:24:51
  and I broke a pair of diner sinks.
• 1:24:53
  Actually just to talk about the 120 seven thing you were saying
• 1:24:55
  that you gained an appreciation for like where you actually
• 1:24:58
  play. And it is interesting because I,
• 1:25:01
  we do this on every session, like get the drummer to just
• 1:25:04
  demonstrate the drum. So we have a reference point
• 1:25:06
  because this might be two years before we have the plug in.
• 1:25:08
  It's nice to have a little played example and something to
• 1:25:11
  yeah, compare once we do have just make sure all the
• 1:25:14
  articulations are sounding right, get them to play at their
• 1:25:16
  normal intensity. And then you start sampling and
• 1:25:19
  it's like, all right, give me a hard one.
• 1:25:20
  And they're like proper studio playing is here.
• 1:25:24
  And then the first sample is like that.
• 1:25:26
  You know what I mean? My programming changed after
• 1:25:30
  doing that. I was like, oh I've been
• 1:25:32
  programming at 1:27. I'm wondering why it doesn't
• 1:25:34
  sound real. Yeah, because it's like with
• 1:25:37
  program drums, there's no extra effort in programming at a
• 1:25:40
  higher velocity, and it does get punchier, but it also changes
• 1:25:43
  like the frequency curve a lot. Everything gets edgier sounding.
• 1:25:47
  It definitely sounds less real. Sure, yeah, as well.
• 1:25:52
  I think there's two drummers in the world that I think
• 1:25:54
  accurately play 127 most Elloy and Matt Gili.
• 1:26:02
  Elmo plays for that band End and yours for The Acacia Strain.
• 1:26:06
  You ever seen him play the drums?
• 1:26:07
  I'm. Trying to think I mean.
• 1:26:09
  He filled in for me on a straight tour.
• 1:26:13
  The guy hits harder than anyone I've ever seen.
• 1:26:17
  Even harder than Ello is fucking crazy.
• 1:26:19
  That's. Nuts.
• 1:26:20
  I mean, Aaron Gillespie back in the day, Yeah.
• 1:26:22
  I mean, still probably, But I remember the videos of like,
• 1:26:25
  like, like videos. And I remember when was it Davey
• 1:26:28
  Lynch played with Mars Volta. He was really going nuts, yeah.
• 1:26:32
  Because I mean, like, if you think about the drummers that
• 1:26:34
  are like held up as like the, the, the best sounding drummers,
• 1:26:37
  like a Jeff Picaro or a Gavin Harrison, like look at their
• 1:26:40
  stick heights. Oh.
• 1:26:41
  Yeah, and they were. Talking about a different style
• 1:26:43
  of music, but Jeff Picaro is playing soft or or shuffly Dude
• 1:26:50
  the guy. Bone and Purdy.
• 1:26:51
  No, actually, I shouldn't have said he's the guy.
• 1:26:54
  He is the shuffle guy, the the guy who played in Steely Dan.
• 1:26:58
  I know Burnett also played in Steely Dan.
• 1:27:00
  Come on, This is like one of the.
• 1:27:02
  Steve Smith. Plays the Yamaha recording
• 1:27:04
  custom Steve Gad. Steve Gad.
• 1:27:07
  Steve Gad, he plays whisper quiet, you know, And when you
• 1:27:12
  then make that louder, there's so much body that's there.
• 1:27:15
  First pair of drumsticks ever bought.
• 1:27:17
  Steve Gad signature. Yeah, with the black ones, with
• 1:27:20
  the white tips, because I thought they were Larses.
• 1:27:24
  Speak of the devil. Oh.
• 1:27:25
  He's got it. This is an actual.
• 1:27:27
  Lars played stick. No way.
• 1:27:29
  Yeah. Didn't sign it, though.
• 1:27:30
  Motherfucker didn't sign it, did he?
• 1:27:33
  Yeah. It's quite short.
• 1:27:34
  Don't even know what you would that's touched.
• 1:27:37
  Touched by the hand of God. Got two of them.
• 1:27:41
  What else have I got? I got tortic tortilla Man from
• 1:27:43
  Slipknot. That's when he as he threw that
• 1:27:45
  at me during the show. Yeah didn't sign it.
• 1:27:51
  I've got there's a real issue right with my goats giving me
• 1:27:57
  shit and not signing it. The other day we were at what do
• 1:28:01
  we warped or and Travis Barker's drum tech while I left you a
• 1:28:07
  gift from Travis in your green room when it was one of his
• 1:28:10
  practice pants, like one of his new didn't sign it.
• 1:28:13
  I could have went and fucking bought that.
• 1:28:14
  I'm very grateful because I use that practice pad all the time.
• 1:28:17
  It's very good. It's much like the reflex stuff,
• 1:28:18
  but sign it. Please Travis, I'm.
• 1:28:21
  Just trying to think what I mean.
• 1:28:22
  Either I guess they're just humble and don't necessarily
• 1:28:26
  think that someone wants their signature on something, or maybe
• 1:28:28
  they know that there's a high probability that that gift might
• 1:28:31
  just end up on eBay or something.
• 1:28:34
  I mean, I'd like to think it is. I'd like to think it's always my
• 1:28:38
  contemporary. I'm not going to.
• 1:28:40
  Yeah, like, you know, I wouldn't.
• 1:28:42
  If I was giving someone I considered the contemporary
• 1:28:45
  something I wouldn't sign. It'd be arrogant.
• 1:28:48
  However, fucking sign it because you're way above me.
• 1:28:52
  Please, Travis. How do you feel about signing
• 1:28:54
  things in general? Like not do you hate it, but do
• 1:28:56
  you feel weird like conflicted syndrome?
• 1:29:01
  No, I love it. I love getting recognized.
• 1:29:04
  I fucking love it so much. It's a nice feeling, but he just
• 1:29:07
  like especially like the bases or something like and someone
• 1:29:10
  wants me to take a Sharpie to it.
• 1:29:12
  I'm just like, really do. You really do you get that I?
• 1:29:15
  Mean I I'm not. He was a guy that made the
• 1:29:17
  fucking base. Of course they want to sign it.
• 1:29:20
  It's like. Yeah, I guess like I mean
• 1:29:21
  intellectually. Having a Mona Lisa and then and
• 1:29:24
  then but. It's not.
• 1:29:25
  That's the big thing. It's.
• 1:29:26
  Me. It's not.
• 1:29:29
  You know, I bet he didn't think he was anyone.
• 1:29:32
  Yeah, I don't know. He was intellectually I'm I'm
• 1:29:34
  not. Davinci.
• 1:29:35
  Just being caught. Who did Mona Lisa?
• 1:29:38
  Davinci. Davinci, who did the Mona Lisa.
• 1:29:44
  This is probably going to be a cut Simon, because I'm fucking a
• 1:29:46
  moron. It's.
• 1:29:48
  Not Michelangelo, is it? It might be Michelangelo.
• 1:29:53
  Davinci. Davinci.
• 1:29:53
  Oh yeah. It's not a cut, Simon.
• 1:29:55
  I'm fucking. I got an ENR anyway.
• 1:29:58
  Davinci probably was like, he probably thought, who gives a
• 1:30:03
  fuck about this smiling face? I don't know, it's a really bad
• 1:30:06
  analogy, but I love selling stuff.
• 1:30:09
  I love getting recognized. Fucking love it.
• 1:30:11
  Publix down the street when I'm with her buying fucking eggs.
• 1:30:15
  Someone's like, are you going to get a photo?
• 1:30:17
  I'm like, fuck yeah, you just made my fucking day.
• 1:30:20
  But let. Me get the eggs in.
• 1:30:21
  Let me get no, but like I'm on the other side of the fucking
• 1:30:24
  way. Everyone's like, I'm really
• 1:30:25
  sorry for disrupting you. I was like, you made me look
• 1:30:27
  really cool in front of my girlfriend and then you've just
• 1:30:30
  validated my. I feel like when I get
• 1:30:33
  recognized over here, it really validates my move here.
• 1:30:37
  I'm like, oh fuck, like a random person in a fucking grocery.
• 1:30:42
  We went as a dispensary in Cleveland, OH the other day and
• 1:30:46
  we're doing the sign in thing where you give them your ID so
• 1:30:49
  you can go and buy weed. And then as we do it, the guys
• 1:30:51
  like, this is the one I get all the time though, which I almost
• 1:30:55
  love more than when they know who I am.
• 1:30:57
  They go because it means I'm, I'm out there.
• 1:30:59
  They go, are you the podcast guy?
• 1:31:03
  And I go. The podcast.
• 1:31:05
  Yeah. And I go fuck yeah, I'm the
• 1:31:06
  podcast guy. And that means that person has
• 1:31:09
  maybe not listened to the podcast, but it is big enough
• 1:31:13
  for the general public to start infiltrating.
• 1:31:17
  Your household face. That's what I want.
• 1:31:19
  I fucking know. If you see me, fucking come say
• 1:31:22
  hello. I love it so much.
• 1:31:23
  I think for me, because like I was saying right at the start,
• 1:31:25
  like I don't, I'm not in places where I'm getting recognized all
• 1:31:29
  the time, not playing live. I'd like it's, there's been a
• 1:31:33
  few times I've gone to like trade shows to represent
• 1:31:35
  companies and it's really, it's nice for a few days And it, it
• 1:31:39
  does make it very real because a lot of what I do is just on the
• 1:31:43
  Internet and it's lovely. I can log into social media and
• 1:31:45
  post something and get all the adoration, you know, and that's,
• 1:31:50
  that's lovely. And, you know, super huge
• 1:31:52
  amounts of gratitude and genuinely very cool to know that
• 1:31:55
  it's affecting people's lives in a positive way if, you know,
• 1:31:58
  they love something that I've done.
• 1:31:59
  But it's it's a whole different thing when people are coming up
• 1:32:02
  to you and you kind of see like on a real personal IRL way.
• 1:32:06
  And it just, it just, I again, I love how small time it feels
• 1:32:10
  when I'm doing a thing. And then sometimes those moments
• 1:32:13
  are like, I'm just, I was just in my kitchen like cooking
• 1:32:17
  pancakes with my daughter. Well, you know, I'm just.
• 1:32:19
  Yeah. You know.
• 1:32:20
  What I mean I. Still have that feeling of I'm
• 1:32:22
  just the guy, but it's like, I don't know, I, I think maybe
• 1:32:26
  it's when the interactions go down the route of them being
• 1:32:31
  like up when within the interaction that you see them
• 1:32:35
  realize, oh, he's just a guy. Like, yeah.
• 1:32:38
  Then I'm like, oh, that was fucking sick.
• 1:32:40
  Sure. Because that means that person
• 1:32:42
  had me on this pedestal and then they met me and was like, oh,
• 1:32:44
  he's just a guy, but they still wanted the photo, if you know
• 1:32:47
  what I mean. So it kind of levels me in a
• 1:32:50
  weird way, as well as giving me that little ego boost, like,
• 1:32:54
  motherfucker knows what I am. Yeah, I love it.
• 1:32:57
  Big fan. Before we do anything else, I
• 1:32:59
  wanted to talk about hard hitting Matt Halpin.
• 1:33:01
  Go on. That guy hit so hard.
• 1:33:03
  He does. Yeah, he does hit hard.
• 1:33:05
  Sometimes the drummers that do the biggest, you know, caveman
• 1:33:10
  arm swings are not even the ones that are actually generating
• 1:33:14
  the. Most.
• 1:33:14
  Yeah, he's, he's very, very. What's the word refined in his
• 1:33:21
  playing that whip? And just the weight and length
• 1:33:24
  of his arms. He's a freak drummer.
• 1:33:26
  Because I, I think for sampling, I've got it with my right hand.
• 1:33:31
  I can hear a pretty mean 127, right?
• 1:33:34
  But I'm still nowhere near, you know, him actually putting all
• 1:33:39
  his effort. He's just like, unless it's a
• 1:33:41
  heavyweight head, there's going to be.
• 1:33:44
  Like a crater after every. Hit and and I don't know, just
• 1:33:48
  the. Volume sticks as well.
• 1:33:49
  Yeah, his, his stick is like the only Primark stick that I think
• 1:33:54
  is good, to be honest with you. It's weird that it's as big and
• 1:33:58
  kind of like big. Shoulder kind of like a rock.
• 1:34:02
  It doesn't have like an even bigger tip and like even like
• 1:34:05
  shorter taper like if they're chunky.
• 1:34:07
  I think you can't get much shorter than the rock.
• 1:34:09
  I think the tape is pretty similar and it's a barrel tip as
• 1:34:12
  well. OK.
• 1:34:13
  Big, big fucker. Yeah.
• 1:34:16
  Like, that's the only pro marks that where I've picked it up.
• 1:34:18
  I mean, I could play this. The rest of them are very long.
• 1:34:22
  Harry Potter. Long.
• 1:34:23
  A bit Harry Potter. Exactly.
• 1:34:24
  A bit. A bit of a one thing.
• 1:34:26
  You recently worked on sleep tokens even in Arcadia.
• 1:34:30
  Yeah, just the drum recording. To be just the drum recording
• 1:34:33
  the credits on allcredits.com, whatever it is, say additional
• 1:34:38
  production. I know which what is very
• 1:34:41
  generous. What does that mean?
• 1:34:43
  I think it means that they like to keep it so vague that they
• 1:34:47
  preferred to upgrade my credit, then specify that I did the
• 1:34:53
  drums. So that makes sense.
• 1:34:55
  So you just engineered the drums?
• 1:34:58
  I'd like to say that it was a production worthy credit because
• 1:35:01
  it was what was really enjoyable.
• 1:35:05
  Is that to is amazing improvisational drama and there
• 1:35:12
  was a lot of not not cajoling to make it happen, but just pushing
• 1:35:18
  to get everything exactly as they wanted it to be on the
• 1:35:22
  recording, you know, And so I'd like to think that it was like a
• 1:35:26
  it wasn't just a button press. It was, it was like really
• 1:35:30
  working together to make sure that, you know, the parts were
• 1:35:34
  as good as possible and that all the flourishes and
• 1:35:36
  improvisational bits were exactly as they should be and
• 1:35:40
  kind of, you know, for a record of that stature and a drummer of
• 1:35:43
  that stature as well. They had the full songs and it
• 1:35:46
  was just for you to record the drums.
• 1:35:48
  Yeah, which is not that much in terms of minutes.
• 1:35:50
  If you listen to even Arcadia, the songs might be 8 minutes,
• 1:35:54
  but there's. I mean.
• 1:35:55
  What? It's 2 minutes.
• 1:35:56
  It's the only one I like. OK, not I dislike the others,
• 1:36:01
  but I think the direction they have gone down was the bits of
• 1:36:07
  their music that I did like the most.
• 1:36:10
  Before that I was a little bit, I'm not really sure what's
• 1:36:13
  happening here. And then now I'm like, oh, I
• 1:36:16
  understand this as as a band now.
• 1:36:19
  I really, really like that album.
• 1:36:21
  I think it's really solid and it's, it's, I know it, it's a
• 1:36:27
  bit Marmite as anything that gets that big and that is so
• 1:36:30
  much a fusion of pop and metal. But I think it's it's easy to
• 1:36:36
  see why it's as big as it is. I like the way they need more
• 1:36:39
  into the pop. I think that the pop parts were
• 1:36:41
  the bits I was like this is awesome.
• 1:36:42
  Yeah, I think it's well done and I think lyrically it's it's
• 1:36:45
  quite like like the songs like Caramel and stuff like that.
• 1:36:49
  Like, I don't know, it's, I think it was really cool to be a
• 1:36:53
  part of that record. And I mean, I hope it will be a
• 1:36:56
  part of future records as well. It seemed to go really well.
• 1:36:59
  Can you imagine what it would be like to be in a band of that
• 1:37:01
  size and not have to do social media?
• 1:37:03
  It'd be amazing. It'd be amazing.
• 1:37:05
  Just think about what? The Dream.
• 1:37:06
  Vessel is doing. Day-to-day.
• 1:37:09
  It's got nothing to do with being in front of millions of
• 1:37:13
  people and he's. Probably getting recognized less
• 1:37:16
  than me, yeah. Which is crazy.
• 1:37:18
  Yeah. Billboard #1 do you get anything
• 1:37:20
  for that, for additional production?
• 1:37:22
  When they got a billboard #1 do you get a plaque or anything?
• 1:37:26
  I don't think so. Maybe I could request it.
• 1:37:28
  Sometimes with these things you kind of you can request, but the
• 1:37:33
  Grammy nominations should. I've got, I've got a thing where
• 1:37:37
  Periphery got nominated for a Grammy.
• 1:37:39
  I got sent a thing. A bit of paper.
• 1:37:41
  Like a little metal thing. Little metal thing for the norm
• 1:37:45
  a man you'll you'll fucking win it this year if you do get the
• 1:37:48
  sleep sleep token nod. Well, I don't know because have
• 1:37:52
  you seen Turnstiler in like 6 categories?
• 1:37:54
  Yeah, and Hayley Williams isn't a bun.
• 1:37:56
  Yeah, this is true. And sleep token what best rock
• 1:37:58
  song with caramel up against? Best rock song?
• 1:38:01
  It's not even Hard Rock or metal.
• 1:38:03
  I think it's best rock song and probably in one of the other
• 1:38:06
  ones, the album I think like metal.
• 1:38:08
  Is it metal album? I just feel like the categories
• 1:38:11
  they're in, there would be other contenders in those categories,
• 1:38:16
  even if taken as a whole. I feel like a cultural
• 1:38:19
  phenomenon that it should win something.
• 1:38:21
  But if yeah, I do also feel like with the Grammys being as
• 1:38:25
  fucking fixed as they are, I said that not normally.
• 1:38:29
  Whenever someone gets a debut Grammy nomination, they rarely
• 1:38:34
  win it, especially in heavy music.
• 1:38:35
  And then they do 3 or 4 years of always being nominated, always
• 1:38:39
  the bridesmaid, never the bride, and then eventually they give
• 1:38:42
  them one. Bit like the Oscars.
• 1:38:43
  I do think it would be remiss of them not to award something.
• 1:38:48
  Or be a snob. It was #1 was the most.
• 1:38:52
  And huge like the. The biggest match of the year.
• 1:38:55
  Yeah, but I mean even I think shows wise it really moved the
• 1:38:59
  needle. And like the way they have
• 1:39:00
  single handedly forced Americans how to say caramel correctly.
• 1:39:04
  Oh my God, I didn't have very thought about that.
• 1:39:06
  Madison, where you say caramel for us, please.
• 1:39:09
  Caramel. Caramel, now listen.
• 1:39:11
  They just need they need to write a song called Soldering
• 1:39:14
  Iron. Why?
• 1:39:15
  What do they say? Can you say solder?
• 1:39:17
  Solder. They call it solder.
• 1:39:19
  Here there's no. Ellen A Solder.
• 1:39:22
  Soldering iron. Soldering iron.
• 1:39:24
  I mean, it's the same with Craig.
• 1:39:25
  Craig, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:39:27
  Do you how, how do you go down ordering water in restaurants
• 1:39:31
  here? Have you given up?
• 1:39:33
  Do you just do the accent? No, but I have.
• 1:39:35
  I've given up my name. OK, I will say Craig because
• 1:39:39
  it's just far easier. Sure.
• 1:39:41
  And there are certain words I give up because I don't want the
• 1:39:46
  conversation where I'll say I don't know.
• 1:39:50
  I can't even think. Madison, can you think of
• 1:39:52
  anything that I say American, just because I can't be bothered
• 1:39:55
  with the conversation? My name is a big one, no?
• 1:39:58
  Not like happen in like day-to-day conversations, but I
• 1:40:01
  will say Garage is one that you have committed to saying.
• 1:40:06
  You feel like garage and and and and schedule.
• 1:40:10
  Schedule is actually one that I have started.
• 1:40:14
  Instead of schedule, do. You want to know something I
• 1:40:16
  found gutting? Go the original English words
• 1:40:19
  for autumn and aluminium. Fallen aluminum.
• 1:40:23
  Crazy. So we're wrong.
• 1:40:26
  We're wrong, but it's crazy because they they write the word
• 1:40:30
  differently for aluminum. It is spelt aluminum.
• 1:40:35
  Yeah, and I think that's how it was even in England.
• 1:40:37
  I don't mind. I I will give up garage because
• 1:40:43
  mirage. I can't think of another word
• 1:40:44
  that ends in AGE that has the same as garage.
• 1:40:48
  Really. Yeah, I can't think of one.
• 1:40:50
  The one that I really sewage. Sewage.
• 1:40:54
  Oh my God, you might have put me back on team garage say sewage.
• 1:41:01
  Sewage. Yes, not sewage.
• 1:41:04
  Oh my God, I'm back. I'm going to start.
• 1:41:07
  Saying swage instead. But the one thing I really can't
• 1:41:10
  concede is Fahrenheit. I mean.
• 1:41:13
  I do it because I have to be able to convey to my very chilly
• 1:41:17
  girlfriend what what the fucking temperature is, but water
• 1:41:21
  freezes at 0 and boils at 100. Seems to be pretty fucking
• 1:41:24
  logical to me. If you're basing the system off
• 1:41:26
  water, which I mean. What is Fahrenheit based off?
• 1:41:31
  That's a good question. 200 and 207, yeah.
• 1:41:35
  But that's that's because it's not really designed around
• 1:41:37
  water. It's designed for other reasons.
• 1:41:38
  Hit me maths girl, have a little Google.
• 1:41:41
  But in the meantime, the water thing I just it.
• 1:41:43
  It shocks me so much that the context, imagine the situation.
• 1:41:48
  You're sitting in a restaurant, you're the only Brit amongst
• 1:41:50
  some Americans. The server comes over and takes
• 1:41:53
  your drink order and you say, oh, just a water please.
• 1:41:57
  Context. Come on.
• 1:41:59
  Like just. It's probably implying it's
• 1:42:01
  something. I mean, you even pronounce the
• 1:42:03
  T. Yeah, but that doesn't help.
• 1:42:05
  Really the. Number of times I get a what and
• 1:42:07
  then like a water. What water?
• 1:42:12
  And I'm like, really? So now, now I'll, I'll just do
• 1:42:16
  that. You'll do the accent.
• 1:42:17
  I didn't see that either way here.
• 1:42:20
  Oh my God, that was good. I mean, I get it, but it's
• 1:42:24
  because I say water. I don't have that table, but I
• 1:42:27
  think maybe Americans are so used to the bottle of water mean
• 1:42:33
  that they understand water more than someone actually saying the
• 1:42:36
  T in it. Yeah, it's just, it's, it's not
• 1:42:40
  like inability to comprehend it. Like I can understand if it's a
• 1:42:42
  double take like what was that? But then like with repeated
• 1:42:46
  clarification of my ordering drinks.
• 1:42:49
  You. Right off, it's just surprising,
• 1:42:51
  Fahrenheit. 2:12 to boil water. OK, but what was it based on?
• 1:42:56
  What's Fahrenheit history? I mean, this might be cut, it
• 1:42:59
  might be fucking pointless, but I I don't quite want to know.
• 1:43:02
  I don't, yeah. I don't think it's based around
• 1:43:04
  someone going hmm, let's think about water and call that 30,
• 1:43:07
  whatever. And when the German physicist
• 1:43:09
  Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit developed his scale in 1724, he
• 1:43:15
  used different reference points. The first one was 0° was the
• 1:43:19
  lowest temperature he could achieve using a mixture of ice
• 1:43:22
  water and ammonium chloride, which is like a salt brine. 96
• 1:43:28
  originally 90 or 100 somewhere in between was set as the
• 1:43:32
  approximate normal temperature for the human body, and the
• 1:43:34
  freezing point of pure water was observed to be 32° on this
• 1:43:39
  scale. So it was based around like body
• 1:43:41
  temperature and. The coldest.
• 1:43:43
  Water, yeah. I mean, still that sucks.
• 1:43:47
  Thank you. But Celsius?
• 1:43:49
  But I just think the counter argument is the of the boiling
• 1:43:53
  and freezing temperatures of water on the Fahrenheit scale
• 1:43:55
  doesn't track is a good criticism because it wasn't
• 1:43:57
  intended that way. Fucking half the earth, right
• 1:44:00
  water. Yeah, I know.
• 1:44:02
  I think. More than half the Earth,
• 1:44:03
  probably 3. Die hard Celsius, don't get me a
• 1:44:05
  Kelvin if you like actually. But wow, I don't actually
• 1:44:11
  measure things in Kelvin. 5600 on these lights just leaking my
• 1:44:18
  my daylight there. While we're on the subject of
• 1:44:22
  production and producing, explain to me what producer
• 1:44:26
  points are, because I don't really know what they are.
• 1:44:29
  It's a way for producers to get in on future payments on.
• 1:44:37
  The royalties. Yeah, it's just a way of getting
• 1:44:39
  in as though you are like it's. A normal thing.
• 1:44:43
  It used to be, I think what used to happen a lot is that a label
• 1:44:46
  would call up a big shot producer and say we've got this
• 1:44:49
  debut record to do for this band and the producer might not think
• 1:44:55
  it's necessarily going to be a hit back in the day when, well,
• 1:44:58
  not not that rather, but they don't know.
• 1:44:59
  It's not surefire like working with, you know, on the third
• 1:45:02
  album where the second one's done amazingly and then it's six
• 1:45:06
  months work for them kind of thing.
• 1:45:08
  They're kind of taking a punt, you know, and then to sweeten
• 1:45:11
  the deal, the label might say, well, you basically get like a
• 1:45:16
  little bit of this and you get invested a little bit into it.
• 1:45:19
  So if you think it's good, then you can go for it and trust that
• 1:45:24
  you'd actually make more rather than just a one time fee.
• 1:45:26
  A bit like Star Wars, A New Hope, you know, story with that.
• 1:45:31
  What the fuck was the guy's name?
• 1:45:34
  The guy that played Obi Wan Kenobi?
• 1:45:35
  Ben, who was Obi Wan Kenobi? Alec Guinness, All of the actors
• 1:45:41
  for the first Star Wars were offered a fee or they could take
• 1:45:46
  1% of the net or gross for Star Wars the franchise and he was
• 1:45:53
  the only one that took it. Made more money than anyone in
• 1:45:55
  the Star Wars world other than George Lucas.
• 1:45:57
  Of course, so that that would be the other, the other time that a
• 1:46:00
  producer point might come up if a band doesn't have the budget
• 1:46:02
  to meet producers normal budget and they say, well, you can make
• 1:46:06
  some off the back end, you know. Do you take producer points?
• 1:46:09
  No, generally not. I mean, I I don't really
• 1:46:11
  consider myself a producer, really.
• 1:46:13
  That's what I was getting at. You kind of suck, no?
• 1:46:16
  No, no you don't. You you like mitigate
• 1:46:19
  conversations about production to engineering quite all the
• 1:46:23
  time. That's because a lot of the time
• 1:46:25
  I'm working with bands that have I, I think of a producer in a
• 1:46:30
  traditional way of someone that is helping to create the whole
• 1:46:35
  branding. If you were will of a release
• 1:46:37
  where they're coming up with the Sonic concept, they're working
• 1:46:41
  with the band as a creative muse.
• 1:46:43
  They're deciding on how the record's going to be recorded in
• 1:46:46
  the way that's going to be most creatively optimal and, you
• 1:46:50
  know, generate the right vibes. And they're involved in writing
• 1:46:53
  the songs or at least making suggestions on edits to songs or
• 1:46:56
  you. Don't think you do that.
• 1:46:58
  I do it in a small way. I'm not saying I'm.
• 1:47:00
  I'm not. I'm not Steve Albini, who
• 1:47:04
  literally refused to call himself a producer.
• 1:47:05
  It's not that, but it's just realistically my involvement in
• 1:47:08
  records doesn't tend to be that deep in in such a way as to say
• 1:47:13
  I I really put my blood and soul into this and like, I need to
• 1:47:17
  get some points. Is that through choice?
• 1:47:19
  Yeah, I mean, I just don't really have time and and as I
• 1:47:21
  say, I think the bands which I work with that aren't really
• 1:47:24
  looking for that thing. They're pretty fleshed out
• 1:47:27
  already. There's been a couple of
• 1:47:28
  occasions with bands that actually in one, one particular
• 1:47:32
  case it was I'd done one record with them and their budget got
• 1:47:35
  cut for the second record that they wanted me to do.
• 1:47:38
  And they they offered, they were like, well, we can't pay as
• 1:47:41
  much, but you can get some points.
• 1:47:42
  And I mean, I wanted to do it anyway.
• 1:47:43
  The points wasn't the thing that.
• 1:47:45
  But did you take the points? I did, yeah.
• 1:47:47
  But I mean, it's not like it's made me.
• 1:47:49
  I don't, I don't think I made. Very much, but massive.
• 1:47:53
  You know, we spoke at the start about like how I do lots of
• 1:47:56
  different things and really doing records for me is like the
• 1:48:00
  it's, it's the like fertile period for everything else that
• 1:48:06
  I do. It's like where I get to really
• 1:48:07
  do the thing and work with outside influences in a way that
• 1:48:11
  then connects me with new ideas that I can then use in the other
• 1:48:16
  outlets. So in a way, it's almost a a
• 1:48:19
  lost leader. I'm not saying I don't ask to
• 1:48:21
  get paid handsomely in some cases, but I'm not doing it
• 1:48:25
  where it's my only income and I need to make sure I'm always
• 1:48:28
  hitting a certain amount, you know?
• 1:48:29
  Are you at the stage now where you can pick and choose who you
• 1:48:33
  want to work with? Yeah, I mean, just logistically,
• 1:48:35
  I I only do a couple of records. Yeah, a couple of records a
• 1:48:40
  year. This year has been the first
• 1:48:42
  year I've taken on more mixing again since my daughter was
• 1:48:45
  born. So for she'll be 4 in January.
• 1:48:47
  So when she was born, I was like, I can't have my company
• 1:48:52
  and also bands all over the world needing annoying mixed
• 1:48:56
  revisions while I've got a newborn baby.
• 1:48:58
  And then like, yeah, she's she's old enough now where there's
• 1:49:03
  more normality. And GGD has just gone over this
• 1:49:06
  massive thing with releasing on a standalone player.
• 1:49:08
  And I'm feeling inspired to do client work, so I'm doing more
• 1:49:11
  of it. But I mean, I just, I don't have
• 1:49:14
  time to do very much of it. I can.
• 1:49:15
  Because of GGD and. Fatherhood and and frankly, I
• 1:49:19
  probably wouldn't want to just do back-to-back records.
• 1:49:21
  It's I see the people that do that and they love that process
• 1:49:25
  and it's something I enjoy, but I it's not necessarily what I
• 1:49:28
  want. What's your favorite thing that
• 1:49:29
  you do? Favorite thing that I do out of?
• 1:49:32
  All of the list. I'll give you the list again if
• 1:49:34
  you want. No, no, Yeah.
• 1:49:36
  And I'm going to give you the list again.
• 1:49:37
  OK, I'm going to give you the list.
• 1:49:39
  I want you to tell me what your favorite.
• 1:49:41
  What your favorite thing is I. Can tell you what my favorite
• 1:49:44
  thing isn't. I don't think it's on the list,
• 1:49:46
  but go for. It, I mean give me that
• 1:49:48
  afterwards, but give me out the list unless it's something I'm
• 1:49:50
  missing from the list. Guitarist, bassist, producer,
• 1:49:53
  mixer, engineer, plug in designer I guess and signature
• 1:50:01
  artist. That's about it.
• 1:50:05
  I think out of that list, weirdly, it would be plug in
• 1:50:10
  designer, but because that is it's the process that's involved
• 1:50:15
  in that of distilling. Basically the things that are
• 1:50:18
  learned from all of the other things.
• 1:50:21
  I just get really, I have to figure something out if if if
• 1:50:28
  I've heard a sound or coffee or whatever, like tasting
• 1:50:32
  something, you know what I mean? If there's something which like
• 1:50:34
  sparks my inspiration of like, that's amazing, I need to know
• 1:50:39
  how to do that every time, then I am just fully committed to
• 1:50:43
  that journey and I can't help myself from being obsessed with
• 1:50:47
  that. And product design is what is
• 1:50:51
  the amazing thing that happens at the end of it.
• 1:50:56
  Having gone through sometimes a really annoying and frustrating
• 1:50:58
  process that could take a really long time, finally figuring this
• 1:51:02
  thing out. And then it's like, wow, I now
• 1:51:05
  know how to do this thing that, you know, I didn't know how to
• 1:51:10
  do before. And maybe doesn't seem like many
• 1:51:11
  other people have figured out as well, this knowledge can now
• 1:51:16
  actually be monetized in a way that gives me, you know,
• 1:51:20
  remuneration for it. And that's that thing where it
• 1:51:22
  feels like it's so much my passion that it's kind of like
• 1:51:28
  almost a joke that I get paid for.
• 1:51:29
  It but it's like it's the process of doing that is are
• 1:51:34
  more enjoyable to you than any of the other things.
• 1:51:37
  It's more in my very soul. I can't.
• 1:51:43
  That is a character trait. And and do you think it comes
• 1:51:45
  from problem solving? It's a problem solving kind of
• 1:51:48
  mindset. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:51:49
  Like you come across something that doesn't exist yet or.
• 1:51:54
  Usually, as I was saying, it's it.
• 1:51:57
  It does exist, but for a fleeting moment it's like the
• 1:52:00
  first time you hear the first time you heard heard Madeline
• 1:52:04
  got inspired by it or something. But I mean when you're designing
• 1:52:07
  a plug in in in particular. But that this is the beautiful
• 1:52:10
  thing that I think from my perspective is that the products
• 1:52:13
  come afterwards. I remember I'm sitting down
• 1:52:16
  like, OK, guys, we need to fill out our product portfolio with
• 1:52:20
  this. OK, so give me give me an
• 1:52:21
  example. OK, the guitar cab software's
• 1:52:25
  we've done, I got so obsessed with figuring out why the metal
• 1:52:30
  guitar tone of like the earliest mid 2000s sounded the way they
• 1:52:33
  did, which was my era of getting into metal.
• 1:52:35
  And the guitar sounded a certain way and I could never replicate
• 1:52:39
  it, even though I seemingly could put all the bits together
• 1:52:42
  that I knew were being used. It just never sounded right.
• 1:52:46
  And then that led to basically like a year and a half or more
• 1:52:49
  of investigative work like talking to producers and
• 1:52:53
  engineers and people on forums to figure out the serial codes
• 1:52:57
  on the cabs that sounded best to then track that to the
• 1:53:00
  particular batches of speakers that were used in those, which
• 1:53:03
  are technically vintage 30s, which is a speaker that's been
• 1:53:06
  there for 35 years. But there was a particular time
• 1:53:09
  period where the voicing seemed to shift, and that happened to
• 1:53:12
  be the time period that the cabinets that were used for
• 1:53:15
  these tones. So the particular year that the
• 1:53:18
  speakers were made, it's a. Batch within the year, yeah.
• 1:53:21
  And you track those down. I did.
• 1:53:23
  Eventually that plugin came from that and.
• 1:53:25
  Then it was like, wow, I was just swimming in.
• 1:53:29
  And you would? And are you being paid at this
• 1:53:32
  point for? That I'm buying just that's why
• 1:53:35
  I'm saying like it's almost a joke that that then becomes.
• 1:53:39
  I mean, it really is, because you're doing quite a lot of work
• 1:53:43
  based on the pure love of the sound, right?
• 1:53:46
  It's just pure. Passion and then being able and
• 1:53:48
  that's like that rings true, I guess, for anyone like rubber
• 1:53:51
  writing music. Anytime a small band asked me
• 1:53:53
  like, oh, have you got any advice on like how to make it?
• 1:53:56
  And I'm like, I'm so far removed from like, and I haven't started
• 1:54:01
  a new band yet, but like, how you would even market that
• 1:54:05
  stuff? So my answer is always the same.
• 1:54:07
  It's just like, make music that you love with every single part
• 1:54:12
  of your soul, and people will either like it or won't like it,
• 1:54:16
  but you'll like it, so it doesn't matter.
• 1:54:19
  And that's essentially what you're doing is just chasing
• 1:54:22
  this thing and then at the end being like, oh, fuck, monetize
• 1:54:26
  this. Yeah, it's kind of cool.
• 1:54:28
  It's so cool. I mean, what a privilege to be
• 1:54:29
  able to do that and to be able to, to raise a family and, and
• 1:54:33
  you know, have a company that also pays employees that can
• 1:54:37
  hopefully raise their families. And you know what I mean?
• 1:54:38
  Like it's, it's crazy that there's an ecosystem built
• 1:54:41
  around this. And I'm in no way am I taking
• 1:54:43
  this in like an arrogant way. It's just like genuinely like,
• 1:54:47
  how fucking cool is that? Like it's such a weird thing to
• 1:54:50
  look at from the outside and think about.
• 1:54:52
  I was going to. I couldn't be any other way as
• 1:54:54
  well with those passion things like you're saying.
• 1:54:56
  I was going to ask you if like there was anything yet to be
• 1:54:59
  done that you're that you want to make, but it's like, I guess
• 1:55:03
  it's leaking stuff that hasn't come out yet.
• 1:55:05
  No, I mean, I, I love drums genuinely.
• 1:55:08
  Like I really, really love drums and I'm always learning about
• 1:55:13
  new drums and cymbals or like sometimes old ones.
• 1:55:15
  I've been on a premier drums kick at the moment.
• 1:55:18
  I don't know. If I I Logan my drum tech on on
• 1:55:22
  this tour was like knowledge just asked me for another to
• 1:55:26
  drive another kit. Yeah, from Aberdeen or something
• 1:55:29
  to Bath, which is like a 10 hour drive.
• 1:55:33
  And I was like, what kit is it? And he goes, there's a Premier
• 1:55:36
  and he didn't tell me which one it was, but can I guess what it
• 1:55:38
  is? Can you tell me what the year
• 1:55:41
  is? It's a 90s kit so it might not
• 1:55:43
  be. OK, like late 90s?
• 1:55:46
  No. Is there something special about
• 1:55:48
  it? I just think they're great and
• 1:55:49
  I've been tracking them online looking for one that's.
• 1:55:52
  Is it an APX? No.
• 1:55:54
  What is it? It's a signer.
• 1:55:56
  Oh yeah, I remember those. They were like the flagship.
• 1:55:58
  They were the flagship. Yeah, that and that it's like
• 1:56:03
  they just sound really good. I've got I've got a significant
• 1:56:05
  snare. It's one of those like if you
• 1:56:07
  know, you know kits almost like if you if you fuse the best
• 1:56:13
  aspects of like a Yamaha recording custom with ADW, it's.
• 1:56:16
  Funny how Premier just went obsolete.
• 1:56:22
  Yeah, I mean, well, they're owned by GIF Music now, I think.
• 1:56:25
  Really. Is it gift?
• 1:56:26
  No, maybe it's not gift. It's one of the big companies
• 1:56:28
  that's revived they. Still make drums.
• 1:56:30
  They do, yeah, exclusogenistas and everything, but I think
• 1:56:33
  whoever bought the companies has exclusive rights.
• 1:56:36
  But you know, like so towards when I was just getting into
• 1:56:39
  drums was like the last gasp of Premier and they'd hired Rob
• 1:56:43
  Keogh. Keogh.
• 1:56:47
  Amazing. He used to do KD Custom I.
• 1:56:53
  Don't know. Wait.
• 1:56:55
  Well, that was that. They were always Birch.
• 1:56:58
  Maybe. No, I'm thinking of, I'm
• 1:57:01
  thinking of a jalapeno. Remember those?
• 1:57:03
  Yeah, yeah, they. Were great.
• 1:57:04
  They were great sounding drums. Yeah, crazy.
• 1:57:06
  All brass. Yeah, mental.
• 1:57:08
  So I've probably actually got that name wrong.
• 1:57:11
  That's not his name. It's Keith something.
• 1:57:13
  Keith something. Anyway, he he got hired, he was
• 1:57:16
  a custom drum maker. He got hired by Premier and did
• 1:57:18
  these like ultra deluxe custom shop kits.
• 1:57:22
  And then Premier folded and he got tapped to create British
• 1:57:26
  Drumco. So basically like the things he
• 1:57:29
  was doing with Premier towards the end became the beginnings of
• 1:57:31
  the range of British Drumco. And he's recently left British
• 1:57:34
  Drumco, but like he's like a really great drum builder that I
• 1:57:38
  guess Premier was just kind of fading at that point.
• 1:57:41
  But the signal drums thing, you can find them online.
• 1:57:43
  It's just this guy in Aberdeen was selling a really good
• 1:57:45
  condition, one with all the sizes I want for cheap enough
• 1:57:48
  that I was like. Cheap enough to warrant paying
• 1:57:51
  Logan to drive it all the way down.
• 1:57:52
  Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Yeah, it is a bit crazy.
• 1:57:56
  You'd probably probably be the team with.
• 1:57:57
  That sample it obviously. What a great look.
• 1:58:00
  I've got the best excuse. I can't just go reusing drums.
• 1:58:03
  That's true. You know, you and I know that
• 1:58:05
  you put different heads on and tune the same kit differently
• 1:58:08
  and put different mics on it. It can sound just as different
• 1:58:10
  as another drum kit. But true, it's just passion.
• 1:58:13
  Love of the game, man. I just want to hear it.
• 1:58:16
  Yeah, I really do love sound more than anyone else I know.
• 1:58:20
  It's kind of cool. Yeah, geeky, but it's cool.
• 1:58:23
  Yeah, but it's good that you don't have like, I don't know,
• 1:58:26
  you could be one of the most prolific music producers of our
• 1:58:32
  time. I.
• 1:58:33
  Don't know about that A. 100% you could what have you it's.
• 1:58:36
  Not passioned. I'm not passionate.
• 1:58:37
  Yeah. And I think that's cool that you
• 1:58:39
  have seen that and been like, OK, that bit's not for me
• 1:58:43
  because you could make a quick buck.
• 1:58:45
  Well, it's The thing is, I don't think it's quick either.
• 1:58:47
  Again, like what you were saying with the bands, it's, it's the
• 1:58:49
  exact same advice that you were giving to the bands.
• 1:58:51
  Like do the thing that you're super passionate about.
• 1:58:53
  I think when I was younger, I thought that there would be a
• 1:58:55
  way, maybe it's British schooling system telling you
• 1:58:58
  that you need to, you know, if you just tried harder, you could
• 1:59:02
  be really good at something. And I kind of learned some wrong
• 1:59:05
  lesson that you needed to try and feel differently about
• 1:59:08
  things in order to be able to do them.
• 1:59:10
  And then at some point I was like, no, you don't get to
• 1:59:12
  choose. You're just passionate about
• 1:59:13
  something. And if you are and all the hard
• 1:59:16
  work in the hours, it's not even a choice.
• 1:59:20
  And I used to feel that advice like you just don't want this
• 1:59:23
  enough meant that you needed to try to want it more as opposed
• 1:59:25
  to like, no, that's that's actually just saying there's
• 1:59:28
  probably something else that it's.
• 1:59:29
  Funny, because I'm in a weird period with music where, like we
• 1:59:33
  were saying earlier, someone asked me if I'd be willing to
• 1:59:36
  join a band purely on a touring basis.
• 1:59:40
  Yeah, and not as a creator. And it was a presented to me
• 1:59:44
  pretty much for the first time since Stray breaking up.
• 1:59:48
  And I have my immediate thought was I actually I really want
• 1:59:55
  quite the opposite to that. Like I think I love playing the
• 1:59:59
  drums and I love creating music. I don't love being on tour.
• 2:00:06
  Not to say that I wouldn't go on tour again, but touring would
• 2:00:09
  be. A payday for me, I would much
• 2:00:13
  rather play. I need to be paid quite a lot to
• 2:00:17
  play music that I didn't make to the point where this person,
• 2:00:20
  they didn't have the budget to do that.
• 2:00:23
  And I think that's the road I'm on now.
• 2:00:25
  Although I like I love making stuff as well.
• 2:00:27
  I love fucking supplement company.
• 2:00:30
  Fucking podcast the plug in. Well, that's why it's also hard,
• 2:00:34
  I'm sure, for you to be like, I'm just going to be away from
• 2:00:36
  her all this time and make these other things that I want to do
• 2:00:39
  way more difficult. Yeah, it's a nightmare, but I am
• 2:00:41
  looking forward to like, I don't know, making music with no, no,
• 2:00:49
  like, OK, this has to get big enough to tour so I can make
• 2:00:52
  money from the tour. And it's going to be kind of the
• 2:00:55
  the first time in a while where I can just be like, you know
• 2:00:57
  what? I because when I'm writing for
• 2:00:59
  Stray, it has to sound like Stray.
• 2:01:01
  But like now once I get settled into this post stray life, I can
• 2:01:06
  be like I think I'm going to do a death core EP and just speak
• 2:01:09
  to some friends about you want to do a death core EP so.
• 2:01:11
  Perfectly placed to do. That and then yeah, and then
• 2:01:13
  just put it out for no reason and then people are like it.
• 2:01:17
  I'll be able to play on stream at bees and things, but then
• 2:01:19
  it's not like what's next? The big like when we need to get
• 2:01:22
  on the festivals, everyone. How long before downbeat
• 2:01:25
  records? I mean, really, we've done all
• 2:01:32
  these delicious collabs as seen here.
• 2:01:38
  I don't think I've thought about that.
• 2:01:41
  And I've thought about management and it had been
• 2:01:44
  presented to me like, oh, you'd be quite a good manager.
• 2:01:46
  And I don't think that the same thing.
• 2:01:50
  I don't think I care enough about anything quite
• 2:01:56
  egotistically. I don't think I care enough in
• 2:01:59
  music for anything. I didn't make enough to warrant
• 2:02:05
  me being in charge of the business for it.
• 2:02:08
  I think I have like a weird arrogance in.
• 2:02:12
  I love stuff that I make and I'm willing to give that 100%.
• 2:02:16
  But I think if I did a record label or something managing a
• 2:02:21
  band, I don't think I could give it what it deserves.
• 2:02:24
  I think a label, if you had some other people around you, that
• 2:02:26
  could be something that that you would be good at.
• 2:02:28
  Like I, I understand with a management situation, I mean,
• 2:02:32
  being a manager is basically a lot of the time like you, I know
• 2:02:36
  you don't really suffer fools, right?
• 2:02:38
  And a lot of the time you're putting out fires.
• 2:02:40
  Putting out fires as a manager that really shouldn't have been
• 2:02:43
  set in the 1st place. Yeah.
• 2:02:45
  And I think you just get so frustrated.
• 2:02:49
  Yeah, the band would be off every major festival or anything
• 2:02:51
  immediately because I'd get in a fucking bad mood.
• 2:02:53
  Although some of my best friends that are the hottest headed
• 2:02:56
  people even more than me make great managers because of that.
• 2:02:59
  Yeah, I guess they're used to their.
• 2:03:01
  Yeah, like the temperature being.
• 2:03:02
  They're not going to put up with it.
• 2:03:04
  I don't think I'd ever do a label.
• 2:03:05
  I am very. I love doing the collabs for the
• 2:03:11
  same sort of reason, same sort of problem solving reason.
• 2:03:15
  Like every downbeat collab we've done, I I've managed to put
• 2:03:19
  something I love, which is death metal artwork, obscure mental,
• 2:03:23
  gory death metal artwork. And you can, if you're in a band
• 2:03:27
  like Dying Wish or Not Loose or whatever, you have a certain
• 2:03:30
  aesthetic that you can't stray away from.
• 2:03:33
  For album artwork when doing a downbeat collab, you can get a
• 2:03:37
  bit silly with it. So I think I'd like to do more
• 2:03:40
  of those and I'd like to do more collabs with clothing for bands.
• 2:03:44
  I think there's a huge, huge hole in band merchandising where
• 2:03:50
  someone else is either pulling the strings or let's just stick
• 2:03:52
  a logo on AT shirt or this. And at the same time there is
• 2:03:58
  people are buying thrifted clothes way more and they're
• 2:04:00
  buying vintage bands, shirts and stuff like that.
• 2:04:02
  And bands are getting annoyed at bootleggers because they're
• 2:04:05
  bootlegging certain, you know, albums or whatever.
• 2:04:09
  In my head, I'm like, you should actually, if you're a band, you
• 2:04:12
  should just be making that so that people could make it.
• 2:04:15
  And I would like to start doing collabs with bands where it's
• 2:04:19
  like, hey, let's make something really fucking cool.
• 2:04:22
  I have the warehouse, I have the factory so that we can make
• 2:04:25
  whatever you want and then do it as a collab.
• 2:04:28
  That's next on my list, I think. And a death core band and a
• 2:04:32
  technical death metal band. And I'm looking forward to doing
• 2:04:35
  metal again, to be honest. Oh, yeah.
• 2:04:37
  Yeah. Thinking about learning double s
• 2:04:39
  feet, feet, double S, just for fun because I've never had the
• 2:04:43
  time to do it because we're always like, maximum of two
• 2:04:47
  months in between straight tours.
• 2:04:49
  Not enough time to learn, like, such a different technique and
• 2:04:53
  then be able to go on the road and play your normal technique.
• 2:04:56
  And now I have no reason to. Yeah.
• 2:04:58
  Bit like learning Spanish, the thing that got me to the point
• 2:05:01
  where I was fluent was doing it every day as part of daily life.
• 2:05:04
  And if it's just like this weird little hobby that you've got on
• 2:05:06
  the side, it would be hard. And you can't shit like shifting
• 2:05:09
  back for drumming, especially if I was learning double s and then
• 2:05:12
  I have to go and play a straight show, I wouldn't be able to do
• 2:05:14
  it. So I don't know.
• 2:05:15
  I don't know what I'm going to do.
• 2:05:16
  Here's a good one. You've recorded many, many, many
• 2:05:19
  drummers. Yeah. 2 from Sleep Token.
• 2:05:23
  Matt Halper, Craig Reynolds. Who else she recorded?
• 2:05:28
  Ally Richardson, Matt Roscoe. You've recorded Crab Benny.
• 2:05:33
  Grab you. Holy shit, Ray.
• 2:05:36
  From Haken is really good you've.
• 2:05:37
  Recorded some of the goats. Yeah, I guess I have.
• 2:05:42
  Morgan Akron. Morgan Akron What can drummers
• 2:05:45
  do in preparation for the studio that can help them deliver the
• 2:05:51
  best performance and also come away not feeling defeated?
• 2:05:57
  Oh man, that's hard because different different bands demand
• 2:06:01
  different kinds of like execution in the studio with
• 2:06:05
  some drummers. I I think really two things I
• 2:06:07
  guess, which are more general, but one would be really
• 2:06:12
  understand what the band as a whole is looking for from the
• 2:06:17
  drum session, from demoing to final thing.
• 2:06:19
  Like are they looking for you to elevate what's in the demos or
• 2:06:24
  are they as a whole? Because it is ultimately a whole
• 2:06:26
  band decision, looking for you to execute as closely as
• 2:06:29
  possible to what they're expecting?
• 2:06:31
  Because I've seen a lot of heartache go both ways.
• 2:06:33
  Either a drummers come fully prepared, having learned the
• 2:06:37
  demos really clearly, and then the band are like expecting them
• 2:06:40
  to pull stuff out of the hat, and they're not really the kind
• 2:06:43
  of drums. That was just bare bones.
• 2:06:44
  And yeah, yeah. And then also the other way
• 2:06:47
  where the maybe even the conversations have been super
• 2:06:50
  clear, where the drummer's kind of told like, yeah, yeah, you
• 2:06:52
  can kind of do your thing. But then when it comes down to
• 2:06:54
  it, they're recording and the band are like, whoa, what's
• 2:06:57
  happening? Like and it's tough.
• 2:06:59
  Because I feel like I've been that guy before, yeah.
• 2:07:02
  Yeah, I think that's really a communication thing, isn't it?
• 2:07:06
  You know, And then the other thing would be to to record
• 2:07:08
  yourself lots. But that's that's a general
• 2:07:10
  thing that I think would really help drummers.
• 2:07:13
  That said, you know, Matt Goska doesn't have a problem with
• 2:07:16
  this, you know what I mean? Like I'm kind of lucky in in the
• 2:07:19
  way that I've recorded really great drummers that are capable
• 2:07:24
  of. Kind of.
• 2:07:24
  But So what makes them so great when they come in?
• 2:07:26
  Exactly what you said, well rehearsed.
• 2:07:28
  Well, they know what is expected.
• 2:07:31
  Of them, I mean, I think, I think like people maybe
• 2:07:35
  underestimate how much rehearsal time is necessary to come into
• 2:07:39
  the studio and execute as though you've been playing the songs
• 2:07:44
  live because most of the time that's not what's happening.
• 2:07:46
  You know, I've done a few sessions.
• 2:07:48
  I mean, Ali's really good at coming in very well rehearsed.
• 2:07:53
  When we did Sleep Token, I think I could say the two came in
• 2:07:56
  extremely well rehearsed. But what that affords both of
• 2:08:00
  the sessions, I'm thinking of those both those dramas, is they
• 2:08:04
  can bash out a version that's good to go really quickly.
• 2:08:08
  And then we've got all of this time to sprinkle some fairy dust
• 2:08:13
  and try options out. Let's say you're doing that with
• 2:08:16
  Two or Ally Richardson and you get a tape which is good to go,
• 2:08:20
  and then you sprinkle the fairy dust.
• 2:08:22
  Do you then is that all of those stems go to whoever is mixing or
• 2:08:29
  producing the track for them to pick from?
• 2:08:31
  Or is it you guys sprinkle this fairy dust and then you say, OK,
• 2:08:35
  this is it? Yeah, almost always with the
• 2:08:37
  bands I'm working with, especially in metal, like the
• 2:08:41
  parts are so specific and the comping will be done with the
• 2:08:46
  drummer. They're making sure that
• 2:08:47
  everything that they cared about is represented in the film, like
• 2:08:50
  in the take and I'll be making. I mean recording someone like
• 2:08:54
  Matt Halpin for example, I think was probably the best in terms
• 2:08:59
  of being challenging ways to go about it because he's so free on
• 2:09:02
  every take, He's getting different symbols on every take.
• 2:09:05
  Trying to stitch those performances together gets
• 2:09:08
  really tricky. You're trying to edit something
• 2:09:10
  like 2 very free form things together and you get really good
• 2:09:13
  at doing that. So because the classic thing is
• 2:09:15
  symbols cutting out when you go from one thing to another
• 2:09:18
  because the drummer hit a different crash or whatever.
• 2:09:19
  And with Matt, that's just like stand there, if you know what I
• 2:09:22
  mean. So I'm always really hands on
• 2:09:25
  comping both so the drummer satisfied and I know that
• 2:09:28
  technically it's as clean as it can be.
• 2:09:30
  And then the edit will be gone over really carefully.
• 2:09:32
  And I just when I'm just a mixer, I don't want to be
• 2:09:35
  thinking about, is that the right take for this section?
• 2:09:39
  You know, like that. I don't want to be thinking on
• 2:09:41
  that level. I want to be just seeing it as
• 2:09:42
  kind of pure. Sound you do, you do have quite
• 2:09:45
  a big creative control there. Because it leaves the studio
• 2:09:49
  with what you and the drummer decided.
• 2:09:50
  Yeah, because I can't imagine the whole asleep dog were in the
• 2:09:53
  studio. No, no, I think I would.
• 2:09:57
  I definitely feel comfortable saying that most of the time
• 2:09:59
  when I do a drum session, which is often what I do when I'm
• 2:10:01
  recording with a band, I might, they might track the rest
• 2:10:03
  themselves that I am there in a production capacity.
• 2:10:07
  I do feel like I'm there with them coaching or suggesting or I
• 2:10:15
  don't know, just yeah, I, I do think I produce for drums.
• 2:10:18
  But I guess what I was pushing back on before was the idea of
• 2:10:21
  producing like an album where I'm doing that, but on
• 2:10:24
  everything. I just every instrument.
• 2:10:25
  That's that's serious. To do that well is like months
• 2:10:29
  of work and I just never doing. That to enjoy every instrument
• 2:10:34
  that much is fatiguing. How do you feel about AI in
• 2:10:39
  music? I mean, there's there's always
• 2:10:42
  going to be stuff that pops up that's like, oh, that's too
• 2:10:45
  close to like that. That is scary.
• 2:10:48
  But for the most part, I feel like the most generic commercial
• 2:10:52
  music has already been generic and boardroom created and panel
• 2:10:58
  created in a way that I just, I don't care if it's a of Well,
• 2:11:04
  let me let me to be clear, I think there are aspects of
• 2:11:07
  music, of popular music that I don't care if they become fully
• 2:11:10
  AI because they're not my preference anyway.
• 2:11:13
  And it's already so manufactured.
• 2:11:15
  I think that that it's going to create and he's creating a, a
• 2:11:22
  kind of in, in a smaller amount of people, maybe a minority of
• 2:11:26
  people, but a desire to look for authenticity.
• 2:11:29
  And I think that it's actually going to play out that and he's
• 2:11:33
  playing out that big bands to set themselves apart.
• 2:11:37
  The Flex is going to be doing it more real like.
• 2:11:41
  I have wondered that myself. You.
• 2:11:43
  Know, and The thing is like if an AI, and I know AI could
• 2:11:49
  expand to include very realistic humanization and error creation
• 2:11:53
  and stuff. But like, ultimately if a band
• 2:11:56
  spend 6 months in the studio with lots of money with humans
• 2:12:00
  creating something, they're going to want to leave some of
• 2:12:03
  the imperfection in so that there is like a mark.
• 2:12:08
  Of being real. And I think that people value
• 2:12:11
  that. And I think that people, I think
• 2:12:13
  that people value the narrative behind the thing they're
• 2:12:17
  consuming. If you imagine like the camera
• 2:12:19
  turning off that one. That was I think we ran over
• 2:12:23
  with that. If you imagine you're we're both
• 2:12:25
  into coffee or like if you're in a restaurant and you order some
• 2:12:28
  wine, it's a very different experience.
• 2:12:31
  If someone tells you a bit about where this thing came from and
• 2:12:35
  the process that was involved and there's a nice story about
• 2:12:38
  it, I don't mean that has to be like super fancy, but just to
• 2:12:41
  have a bit of knowledge about the origin of this thing that
• 2:12:44
  you're experiencing really transforms the experience.
• 2:12:47
  And AI is just not AI. Creative things are just not
• 2:12:50
  going to have that. Like I don't care if AI creates
• 2:12:54
  like the most punchy snare ever. Like it's not going to be as
• 2:12:59
  interesting to me as a slightly less punchy snare that's real.
• 2:13:03
  And that I know atoms were moved in a space and picked up by
• 2:13:07
  microphones and a human tuned it and stuff like there's like a, I
• 2:13:12
  think you're very quickly going to reach the point where there's
• 2:13:14
  no objective better within AI. And everything is like playing
• 2:13:18
  God Mode on on, like playing computer games with God Mode on,
• 2:13:21
  where it's like, OK, there's not really any value in this.
• 2:13:23
  I mean, I, I agree, I mean I hope you're right and I hope
• 2:13:28
  there is a a grunge like rebellion against everywhere
• 2:13:33
  where turnstile stuff like that. But I do worry with the rise of
• 2:13:40
  the anonymous bands that it will be very easy to create a
• 2:13:45
  completely AI band, yeah. That I.
• 2:13:48
  Mean and the gaming of the system is what worries me.
• 2:13:51
  I'm not too worried the game that the Spotify.
• 2:13:53
  Socially, systemically, AII think is going to be super
• 2:13:57
  chaotic and I'm not looking. I have the almost the opposite
• 2:14:01
  opinion as you like. I worry about it very, very much
• 2:14:04
  for music because the ability for people to just create, RIP
• 2:14:08
  off bands, stick them on Spotify, we're seeing it and
• 2:14:10
  make thousands of dollars in revenue and then maybe
• 2:14:14
  eventually it gets pulled, maybe it doesn't.
• 2:14:16
  Whereas in the grand scheme of things, I feel like with
• 2:14:21
  everything being able to be faked like you have in,
• 2:14:24
  especially in the US, you have the people that watch CNBC and
• 2:14:29
  you have the people that watch Fox News and they all, all the
• 2:14:33
  people that watch CNBC believe everything on CNBC.
• 2:14:36
  And everyone, obviously not everyone, but the majority and
• 2:14:40
  everyone what's watches Fox News believes everything on Fox News.
• 2:14:44
  When AI becomes so ingrained in society that everything can be
• 2:14:49
  fake, I really feel like people are going to start distrusting
• 2:14:53
  everything. But I don't think that that's
• 2:14:55
  the root to a healthy world, unfortunately.
• 2:15:00
  I agree with you. I think distrust, unfortunately,
• 2:15:03
  is where people with genuine ulterior motives start to step
• 2:15:07
  in and really take advantage. That's what I'm.
• 2:15:10
  Scared of I feel like it'd be more.
• 2:15:13
  My opinion is people will start to question everything more.
• 2:15:17
  I think there's positives to that, yeah.
• 2:15:19
  I'm just worried about the divided we're conquered aspect
• 2:15:22
  of it, you know? I mean, on the positive, I think
• 2:15:24
  medical stuff is probably going to be hugely improved.
• 2:15:27
  They promised us that was the fucking main thing.
• 2:15:30
  And they seem to have just started with the arts.
• 2:15:32
  They were like, OK, we're going to like cure cancer.
• 2:15:35
  We've already like discovered that some cancers super early
• 2:15:37
  because of AI. But it's like, oh by the way, is
• 2:15:40
  this crazy studio giblified version of whatever?
• 2:15:45
  But the other thing is I'm I'm I'm GD up by seeing how
• 2:15:50
  negatively things are seen when they're found out to be AI.
• 2:15:53
  Yeah, and. I don't think it's just the
• 2:15:56
  creator community, I think that the general public do not like
• 2:16:00
  finding out that something they didn't think was AI is AII.
• 2:16:03
  Can't believe when I see creators using it and they're
• 2:16:06
  like so far removed from their audience that they think this
• 2:16:11
  will be fine and then they do it and the comments are fucking
• 2:16:14
  crazy. So at least I think it's kind of
• 2:16:16
  getting policed a little bit, you know?
• 2:16:18
  Yeah, I do hope it continues to get policed because I fucking
• 2:16:22
  hate it. But I could use it for drum
• 2:16:25
  editing. I'd love that, slam it through a
• 2:16:27
  fire, but then even then I'm saying I'd love that.
• 2:16:30
  That is taking someone's job away.
• 2:16:32
  It's taking your drum head at his job away.
• 2:16:34
  That's a fucking conversation for another day.
• 2:16:36
  It is. Nollie, thanks for coming on the
• 2:16:38
  Downbeat by our fucking plug in. It's called one Kit Wonder, the
• 2:16:42
  Downbeat, and it's really fucking great.
• 2:16:44
  He's genuinely really good. I'm very happy.
• 2:16:47
  He's happy. I'm happy.
• 2:16:47
  Madison's bored as fuck. Let's get some food.
• 2:16:51
  Thanks Nollie. Pleasure.