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Mini: Snake Oil · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why We Do What We Do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do What We Do Mini. I am
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: your host, Abraham.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm your host, Shane.
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  Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: that humans and non-human animals do. And in many episodes,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: we do it fast and short because it's mini. Yeah.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: So if you're joining us for the first time, then welcome.
• 0:37
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• 0:39
  Speaker 1: enjoy what we bring to you in this discussion. And
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  Speaker 1: like to support us, you can like, subscribe, tell a friend,
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  Speaker 1: join us on Patreon. I'll talk more about those things
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: at the end of this discussion. But this is a mini,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: so we got to dive into it so that we
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: can get out of here in a reasonable amount of time.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm missing something. Am I missing something?
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  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.
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  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about snakes. No context whatsoever. That
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  Speaker 1: is how I open.
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  Speaker 2: All right.
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  Speaker 1: So you might hear the term snake oil and you
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  Speaker 1: might immediately recognize that term snake oil as a derisive
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  Speaker 1: phrase meant to describe something as fraudulent, perhaps deliberately misleading,
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  Speaker 1: or a snake oil salesperson as someone who lies or
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  Speaker 1: misrepresents themselves deliberately or usually to gain something for themselves,
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  Speaker 1: not unlike a thief in many cases. But maybe that's
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: your history of association with that word, or maybe you've
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: never heard snake oil before, and I say that, and
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know what this guy is talking about.
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  Speaker 1: That's okay. We'll get you up to speed.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So in this discussion, we're going to talk about the
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  Speaker 3: history of snake oil as a term, what it means,
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  Speaker 3: and how it influences our choices.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of history here, as per usual with us. Okay,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: let's talk about snake oil. So let's talk about Chinese workers.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: A long time ago.
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  Speaker 2: What a pivot.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: What a pivot. Chinese workers had found that they could
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: reduce swelling and relieve soreness by rubbing the oil of
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  Speaker 1: a Chinese water snake on their skins. So they would
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: like extract this oil, the fatty substance from them. They
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: rub it on their skins and it would help reduce
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: some inflammation and pain that they were experiencing. So swelling.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: This particular snake, the Chinese water snake, is very high
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: in omega-3 acids, which does legitimately have some anti-inflammatory effects.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: So it would have been somewhat successful in rubbing it
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: on your skin to help reduce some swelling and inflammation,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: should there be some, because of its actual composition.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Right. And so folks would bring these medicines with them
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  Speaker 3: when they immigrated to the United States in the 1800s.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: and impress their fellow transcontinental workers with the power.
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  Speaker 2: Of their medicine.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're co-workers, they worked on these rails together, and
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  Speaker 1: they would have swelling and pain, and they'd say, hey,
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  Speaker 1: I've got this snake oil, rub it on your skin,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: you'll feel better. And then they did, and they were like, wow,
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  Speaker 1: that's really cool.
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  Speaker 3: Isn't it always interesting how, like, Any sort of, like,
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: strange history that involves the United States always ends up
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: in spaces where it's talking about, like, indentured servitude or
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: slavery or something like that.
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  Speaker 2: Because these folks.
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  Speaker 3: Were coming over and they were working for not anything
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: or they were, you know, it's just one of those
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: things where you go, of course, that's where we end
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: up in American history.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, these were poor conditions, for sure.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Anyway, that's the history of where that started, sort of.
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  Speaker 1: And somehow, some shameless self-promoting charlatan learned about this and
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: then debuted this as his own concoction, his own remarkable concoction,
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  Speaker 1: at the Columbian Exposition in Chicago in 1893. Also, incidentally,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: where Pabst Blue Ribbon was first introduced. Same exposition.
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  Speaker 2: Sure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, this fair that was going on. I think the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: electric dishwasher, like the first like modern dishwasher was to
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  Speaker 1: be here. Anyway, so this man takes the stage. He
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: pulls a rattlesnake out of a sack that is at
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  Speaker 1: his feet. It's writhing around. It's clearly alive. He takes
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  Speaker 1: a knife out and slits this poor snake open and
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  Speaker 1: then dumps its body into a vat of boiling water
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  Speaker 1: that he's got on stage. As it's boiling, this viscous
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: white substance floats to the top. It may or may
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: not have been its fatty tissue. It probably was. And
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  Speaker 1: then he took this fat, skimmed it off of the
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: top of the water, and dispersed it into liniment jars
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  Speaker 1: and sold them to this eager crowd as a cure
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  Speaker 1: for a wide variety of ailments that this would possibly
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  Speaker 1: help with, including, but not limited to, aches, pains, bruises, rheumatism, swelling,
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  Speaker 1: sore throat, frostbite, animal bites... and arthritis. And again, the
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: list goes on, but those are some of the things
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  Speaker 1: he claimed that the snake oil could cure.
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  Speaker 3: As somebody who was recently diagnosed with arthritis in my spine,
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to go ahead and get some now.
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  Speaker 2: So in his.
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  Speaker 3: Highly dubious autobiography, which was mostly the ravings of a
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  Speaker 3: mad person and an advertisement for a snake oil business,
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  Speaker 3: he later claimed he learned this miraculous snake oil medicine
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  Speaker 3: from time with the Hopi Native American tribe. And there
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  Speaker 3: is literally no evidence of this being true.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: He basically would just advertise for the snake oil. So
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: here's what snake oil advertisements sound like. Okay, we're back.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, he claims to have learned this from the
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  Speaker 1: Hopi tribe. Probably not true. I mean, obviously not true.
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  Speaker 1: But his performance electrified the crowd at this exposition and
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  Speaker 1: word of mouth spread about his remarkable concoction. And eventually
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  Speaker 1: he had a factory churning out bottles and bottles and
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  Speaker 1: tons and like, I think I saw thousands or tens
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  Speaker 1: of thousands of bottles of snake oil for sale for
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  Speaker 1: his customers. And he kept this up for decades. So
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  Speaker 1: from 1894 to 1917, he sold thousands and thousands of
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  Speaker 1: these These Clark Stanley's snake oil liniment. That was his
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  Speaker 1: name is Clark Stanley. A liniment, by the way, since
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I've used that a few times, is a topical medicine
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  Speaker 1: that relieves joint pain, stiffness, and arthritis. So that's why
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  Speaker 1: it was called that. But yeah, you could find these bottles.
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  Speaker 1: If you Google it, you will find many images of
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  Speaker 1: the picture of this guy's face. And it says right
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  Speaker 1: on it, Clark Stanley's snake oil liniment.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, man.
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to look this up real quick because we're
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: as we're talking about this. I love I love a
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  Speaker 3: good old advertisement.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: This is a classic.
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  Speaker 2: This, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. It's so good.
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  Speaker 3: It, like, is absolutely what you think it is. It
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  Speaker 3: looks like a wanted poster, but for Snake Oil. Oh,
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  Speaker 3: that's so good. Okay, so even after the Food and
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  Speaker 3: Drug Act of 1906, it took over a decade for
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  Speaker 3: the government to show up and test his bottles, finding
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  Speaker 3: that they contained no snake oil at all, which put
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  Speaker 3: a stop to Stanley's operation. The only snake, quote-unquote, oil
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  Speaker 3: in any of his bottles... was sold at the Chicago Fair.
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  Speaker 3: What the FDA found was that his bottles contained mineral oil,
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  Speaker 3: beef fat, capsaicin, and turpentine. Nothing from snakes whatsoever. They
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  Speaker 3: fined him a whopping $ 20, which he paid, and then
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  Speaker 3: quietly moved on.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was basically it. In that first exposition where
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  Speaker 1: he killed a snake and then put it in bottles,
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  Speaker 1: that was probably the last time snake oil was used
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  Speaker 1: in any of this. And then at that point, he
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  Speaker 1: was using mineral oil, beef fat, and some of that
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  Speaker 1: turpentine and capsaicin. even in the, like we're talking about
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  Speaker 1: the 19th, like 17 here, even back then, $ 20, not
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  Speaker 1: very much money. This guy had become quite wealthy off
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  Speaker 1: of this. This was nothing to him. He just moved
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  Speaker 1: on to his next huckster business that he had. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you imagine nowadays, if this guy was around, he could
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  Speaker 1: probably run for president and win as long as he
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  Speaker 1: ran as a Republican, as evidenced by the current clowns, charlatans, hucksters,
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  Speaker 1: and frauds that we have in our elected offices currently.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Speaking of which, make sure you get your commemorative $ 1
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Coin, I guess, is out now.
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  Speaker 1: Don't do that.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Don't do that. Don't do that.
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  Speaker 1: Ignore, pretend they don't exist. Let that venture fail as
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: so many of them have failed. That's stupid.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so ridiculous. So going back to
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  Speaker 2: Clanley Stark, Stanley Clark, Clark Stanley. Clanley Stark.
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  Speaker 3: Clanley Stark, Stanley Clark, Clark Stanley is his name.
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  Speaker 1: That's the one.
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  Speaker 2: Clanly Stark, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Even if any of the bottles had contained snake oil,
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  Speaker 3: it likely wouldn't have done very much because it is
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  Speaker 3: not a Chinese water snake, which is different from rattlesnakes
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  Speaker 3: and contains very little of the, and rattlesnakes specifically containing
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  Speaker 3: very little of the omega-3s that make snake oil maybe
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  Speaker 3: work sometimes for some people.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like, even the medicinal properties that it had, like,
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  Speaker 1: it was limited in how much it was actually going
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  Speaker 1: to do for you. It's like, it did do something, like,
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  Speaker 1: it was legitimate, but it wasn't, like, a If you
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: had a really serious problem, I mean, it's not going
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  Speaker 1: to do anything for frostbite. Like, let's just be real.
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  Speaker 1: There's that. Right. But yeah, even like the, the snakes
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  Speaker 1: that were readily available that he's, that he used for this,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: which was rattlesnakes. And again, only one, as far as
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  Speaker 1: we know that one time. Yeah. They just, they didn't
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  Speaker 1: have the same Omega fats. Like you weren't, you just
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: weren't going to find that here. So like, it wasn't
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  Speaker 1: going to have that effect, even if it had been
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  Speaker 1: a real effect, it wouldn't have had that effect because
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  Speaker 1: it's a different type of snake with a different type
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  Speaker 1: of Omega three. fat composition.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Anyway, point being, that whole term of snake oil, this
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  Speaker 1: eventually made its way into popular culture to represent something
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  Speaker 1: that was dishonestly portrayed as one thing when it actually
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  Speaker 1: was something else that will, at best, do nothing for you.
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  Speaker 1: And it seems like that it sort of got used
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  Speaker 1: in places here and there to represent that. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: So when it doesn't contain the thing it is said
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  Speaker 3: to contain and doesn't do what it is claimed to
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  Speaker 3: be able to do, we understand it as and call
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  Speaker 3: it snake oil. When someone is peddling something they know
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: to be fraudulent, we call them snake oil salespeople. And
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: so that's kind of where all that comes from and
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  Speaker 3: how we have arrived to that today in the nomenclature.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And besides the harm that would have come to snakes
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  Speaker 1: for people who attempt to do this, besides the harm
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  Speaker 1: that comes from like taking turpentine and rubbing it on
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  Speaker 1: your skin, which I don't believe would have a lot
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: of medicinal value to it. And most of the time
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  Speaker 1: where this just doesn't do what it says it's going
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: to do is that like many other fraudulent things, this
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: is people spending money on something that they could have
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  Speaker 1: otherwise been spending that money on something that did work.
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  Speaker 1: And they also will often take this instead of something
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  Speaker 1: that does work. This is kind of the herbalist scam. Right.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: And not to say that all herbalists are scammers, but
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  Speaker 1: like the wellness industry is rife with people who do
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: this thing where they, like there are people out there
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: who legitimately trying to like sell you real stuff that
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: does real things. But there are a lot, a lot,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who use this unregulated platform to
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: peddle their crap that does nothing and tell you that
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: it does do something. And they will tell you, don't
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: take real medicine. Take my thing.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Goop.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: RFK Jr. Is basically like, he loves this, these people.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we haven't learned our lesson.
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  Speaker 3: The industry of charlatans has received a renewed interest in
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: autonomy with the appointment of RFK Jr., who lives in
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: the pockets of the wellness industry. It is just a
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: space that is completely unregulated and very easy. We've had
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: this conversation before about pseudoscience. We talked about this on
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: the Goop episode, where it's very easy to run with
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: these big claims where nothing happens for a period of
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: time and get a lot of money for it.
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  Speaker 2: So it's unfortunate.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: And when it falls apart, they just move on to
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: the next scam. They can always keep it rolling. And
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: sometimes once people forget, then they might resurrect an old
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: one they had for a while and bring that back.
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  Speaker 1: And they know how to scam people endlessly.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, tummy tea.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: And again, the harm here is not only that it
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't work, but it's then people, they don't take and
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: they don't actually get real help for problems that they
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: might have because they are convinced that they can get
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: away with just taking turmeric or some shit. And the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: other thing here is that the sales techniques are being
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: used more often than never. Regulations did stop Stanley, Clanley.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Clanley. Clanley Stan. Clanley Stan Clark.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And many people like him. He was not alone in this.
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  Speaker 1: He was the one who sort of became the face
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: of it. But there were a lot of people who
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: were selling snake oil the exact same way he was.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: And it did put a damper on some of their
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: fraudulent ways, but people got more creative. The fraud and
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: the charlatanism, it is as alive now as it ever was.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately, it continues to be pervasive. But those techniques work.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: It's like those sales techniques, that rhetoric, it works. I mean,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: that is essentially why we have MAGAism. It is why
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the wellness supplement industry is the way that it is.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: It is... A huge way that many people who have
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: nothing to say say a lot is by embracing these
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: same sorts of performance-based charlatan huckster grifts that they perpetrate
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: on us.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's real bad. All right.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to tell us your thoughts on snake
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: oil or anything we said here, you can email us directly.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: You can reach us at info at WWD, WWD podcast.com
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: or on the social media platforms. We do look forward
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: to hearing from you. So do that thing. If you'd
• 13:46
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• 13:48
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• 14:01
  Speaker 1: and I'll read your name on the list of supporters
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: at the end of our full-length discussions. But for now,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I'll say thank you, patron supporters. We really appreciate you.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, we love you so much.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much to my team. Thank you for
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: recording with me today, Shane. Is there anything that I
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: missed or that you'd like to add before we wrap
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: this one up?
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Not today.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Don't buy commemorative coins. Don't buy snake oil. Yeah. Otherwise,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: thank you for listening. This is Abraham.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: And this is Shane.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Why We Do What We Do Mini is out.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Why We Do What We Do.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: going to www.wwdpodcast.com.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day.