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28 - The Republic - Plato · Logic Library

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Book seven, Part four. But let us defer the further correlation and subdivision
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of the subjects of opinion and of intellect, for it will be a long
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enquiry, many times longer than this has been. As far as I understand,
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he said, I agree, And do you also agree? I said,
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in describing the dialectician as one who attains a conception of the essence of
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each thing, and he who does not possess, and is therefore unable to
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impart this conception in whatever degree he fails, may in that degree also be
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said to fail in intelligence. Will you admit so much? Yes, he
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said, how can I deny it? And you would say the same of
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the conception of the good. Until the person is able to abstract and define
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rationally the idea of good, and unless he can run the gauntlet of all
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objections and is ready to disprove them, not by appeals to opinion, but
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to absolute truth, never faltering at any step of the argument. Unless he
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can do all this, he would say that he knows neither the idea of
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good nor any other good. He apprehends only a shadow, if anything at
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all, which is given by opinion and not by science. Dreaming and slumbering
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in this life before he is well awake. Here he arrives at the world
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below and has his final quaiitis. And all that, I should most certainly
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agree with you, And surely you would not have the children of your ideal
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state, whom you are nurturing and educating, if the ideal ever becomes a
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reality. He would not allow the future rulers to be like posts, having
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no reasoning them, and yet to be set in authority over the highest matters.
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Certainly not. Then you will make a law that they shall have such
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an education as will enable them to attain the greatest skill in asking and answering
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questions. Yes, he said, you and I together will make it dialectic.
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Then, as you will agree, is the coping stone of the sciences,
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and is set over them. No other science can be placed higher.
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The nature of knowledge can no further go. I agree, he said.
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But to whom we are to assign these studies and in what way they are
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to be assigned? Are questions which remain to be considered. Yes, clearly,
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you remember I said, how the rulers were chosen before. Certainly,
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he said, the same natures must still be chosen, and the preference again
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given to the surest and the bravest, and if possible, to the fairest,
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and having noble and generous tempers. They should also have the natural gifts
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which will facilitate their education. And what are these such gifts as keenness and
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ready powers of acquisition? For the mind more often feigns from the severity of
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study than from the severity of gymnastics. The toil is more entirely the mind's
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own, and is not shared with the body. Very true, he replied.
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Further, He of whom we are in search should have a good memory
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and be an unwearied, solid man who is a lover of labor in any
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line, or he will never be able to endure the great amount of bodily
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exercise and to go through all the intellectual discipline and study which we require of
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him. Certainly, he said, he must have natural gifts. The mistake
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at present is that those who study philosophy have no vocation. And this,
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as I was before saying, is the reason why she has fallen into disrepute.
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Her true sons should take her by the hand, and not bastards.
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What do you mean in the first place, her votary should not have a
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lame or halting industry. I mean that he should not be half industrious and
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half idle, as for example, when a man is a lover of gymnastic
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and hunting and all other bodily exercises, but a hater rather than a lover
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of the labor of learning or listening or inquiring, or the occupation to which
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he devotes himself, may be of an opposite kind, and he may have
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the other sort of lameness. Certainly, he said, and that's to truth,
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I said, is not a soul equally to be deemed halt and lame,
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which hates voluntary falsehood and is extremely indignant at herself and others when they
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tell lies, but is patient of involuntary falsehood, and does not mind wallowing
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like a Swennish beast in the mire of ignorance, and has no shame at
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being detected. To be sure, and again, in respect of temperance,
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courage, magnificence, and every other virtue, should be not carefully distinguish between
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the true son and the bastard. For where there is no discernment of such
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qualities, states and individuals unconsciously err and the state makes a ruler, and
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the individual, a friend of one who, being defective in some part of
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virtue, is in a figure lame or a bastard. That is very true,
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he said. All these things, then, will have to be carefully
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considered by us. And if only those whom we introduce to this vast system
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of education and training are sound in body and mind, Justice herself will have
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nothing to say against us, and we shall be the saviors of the constitution
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and of the state. But if our pupils are men of another's stamp,
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the reverse will happen, and we shall pour a still greater flood of ridicule
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on philosophy than she has to endure at present. That would not be creditable.
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Certainly not, I said. And yet perhaps in thus turning jest into
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earnest, I am equally ridiculous. In what respect I had forgotten. I
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said that we were not serious, and spoke with too much excitement, For
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when I saw philosophy so undeservedly trampled under foot of men, I could not
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help feeling a sort of indignation at the authors of her disgrace, and my
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anger made me too vehement. Indeed, I was listening and did not think
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so, But I who am The speaker felt that I was. And now
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let me remind you that although in our former selection we chose old men,
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we must not do so in this Sullen was under a delusion when he said
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that a man, when he grew old may learn many things, for he
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can no more learn much than he can run much. Youth is the time
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for any extraordinary toil, of course, and therefore calculation and geometry, and
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all the other elements of instruction which are a preparation for dialectic should be presented
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to the mind in childhood. Not, however, under any notion of forcing
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our system of education. Why not, because a freeman ought not to be
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a slave in the acquisition of knowledge of any kind. Bodily exercise when compulsory,
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does no harm to the body, but knowledge which is acquired until compulsion
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obtains no hold on the mind. Very true, then, my good friend,
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I said, do not use compulsion, but let early education be a
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sort of amusement. You will then be better able to find out the natural
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bent. That is a very rational notion, he said. Do you remember
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that the children too were to be taken to see the battle on horseback,
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and that if there were no danger. They were to be brought close up,
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and like young hounds, have a taste of blood given them. Yes,
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I remember, the same practice may be followed, I said. In
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all these things labors, lessons, dangers, and he who is most at
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home in all of them ought to be enrolled in a select number at what
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age, At the age when the necessary gymnastics are over. The period,
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whether of two or three years, which passes in this sort of training is
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useless for any other purpose, For sleep and exercise are unpropitious to learning,
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and the trial of who is first in gymnastic exercises is one of the most
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important tests to which our youth are subjected. Certainly, he replied, after
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that time, those who are so elected from the class of twenty years old
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will be promoted to higher honor, and the sciences which they learned without any
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order in their early education will now be brought together, and they will be
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able to see the natural relationship of them to one another and to true being.
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Yes, he said. That is the only kind of knowledge which takes
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lasting root. Yes, I said, And the capacity for such knowledge is
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the great criterion of dialectical talent. The comprehensive mind is always the dialectical.
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I agree with you, he said. These, I said, are the
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points which you must consider. And those who have most of this comprehension,
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and who are most steadfast in their learning and in their military and other appointed
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duties, when they have arrived at the age of thirty, have to be
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chosen by you out of the select class and elevated to higher honor. And
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you will have to prove them by the help of dialectic, in order to
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learn which of them is able to give up the use of sight and the
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other senses, and in company with truth, to attain absolute being. And
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here, my friend, great caution is required. Why great caution do you
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not remark? I said, How great is the evil which dialectic has introduced?
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What evil? He said? The students of the art are filled with
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lawlessness? Quite true, he said, Do you think that there is anything
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so very unnatural or inexcusable in their case? Or will you make allowance for
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them? In what way? Make allowance? I want you, I said,
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by way of parallel, to imagine a supposititious son who is brought up
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in great wealth. He is one of a great and numerous family, and
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has many flatterers. When he grows up to manhood, he learns that his
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alleged are not his real parents. But who the real are he is unable
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to discover. Can you guess how he will be likely to behave towards his
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flatterers and his supposed parents, First of all during the period when he is
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ignorant of the false relation, and then again when he knows, or shall
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I guess for you if you please? Then I should say that while he
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is ignorant of the truth, he will be likely to honor his father and
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his mother and his supposed relations more than the flatterers. He will be less
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inclined to neglect them when in need, or to do or say anything against
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them, and he will be less willing to disobey them in any important matter.
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He will. But when he has made the discovery, I should imagine
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that he would diminish his honor and regard for them, and would become more
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devoted to the flatterers. Their influence over him would greatly increase. He would
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now live after their ways and openly associate with them, And unless he were
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of an unusually good disposition, he would trouble himself no more about his supposed
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parents or other relations. Well, all that is very probable, But how
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is the image applicable to the disciples of philosophy? In this way? You
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know that there are certain principles about justice and honor which were taught us in
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childhood, and under their parental authority, we have been brought up obeying and
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honoring them. That is true. There are also opposite maxims and habits of
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pleasure, which flatter and attract the soul, but do not influence those of
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us who have any sense of right, and they continue to obey and honor
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the maxims of their fathers. True. Now, when a man is in
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this state, and the question in spirit asks what is fair or honorable?
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And he answers as the legislator has taught him, and then arguments many and
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diverse refute his words, until he is driven into believing that nothing is honorable
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any more than dishonorable, or just, and good any more than the reverse.
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And so of all the notions which he most valued, do you think
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that he will still honor and obey them as before impossible? And when he
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ceases to think them honorable and natural as heredofore, and he fails to discover
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the true can he be expected to pursue any life other than that which flatters
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his desires. He cannot, and from being a keeper of the law he
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is converted into a breaker of it. Unquestionably, Now, all this is
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very natural in students of philosophy, such as I have described, and also
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as I was just now saying, most excusable, Yes, he said,
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and I may add pitiable. Therefore, that your feelings may not be moved
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to pity. About our citizens, who are now thirty years of age,
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every care must be taken in introducing them to dialectic. Certainly, there is
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a danger lest they should taste the dear delight too early. For youngsters,
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as you may have observed, when they first get the taste in their mouths
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argue for amusement, and are always contradicting and refuting others an imitation of those
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who refute them. Like puppy dogs, they rejoice in pulling and tearing at
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all who come near them. Yes, he said, there is nothing which
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they like better. And when they have made many conquests and received the feats
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at the hands of many, they violently and speedily get into a way of
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not believing any thing which they believe. Before and hence not only they,
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but philosophy and all that relates to it is apt to have a bad name
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with the rest of the world. Too true, he said, But when
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a man begins to get older, he will no longer be guilty of such
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insanity. He will imitate the dialectician who is seeking for truth, and not
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the heuristic who is contradicting for the sake of amusement, and the greater moderation
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of his character will increase, instead of diminishing, the honor of the pursuit.
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Very true, he said, And did we not make special provision for
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this when we said that the disciples of philosophy were to be orderly and steadfast,
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not as now any chance aspirant or intruder. Very true. Suppose I
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said the study of philosophy to take the place of gymnastics, and to be
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continued diligently and earnestly and exclusively for twice the number of years which were passed
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in bodily exercise. Will that be enough? Would you say six or four
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years? He asked, Say five years? I replied. At the end
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of the time, they must be sent down again into the den and compelled
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to hold any military or other office which young men are qualified to hold.
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In this way they will get their experience of life, and there will be
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an opportunity of trying whether, when they are drawn all manner of ways by
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temptation, they will stand firm or flinch. And how long is the stage
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of their lives to last? Fifteen years? I answered, And when they
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have reached fifty years of age, then let those who still survive and have
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distinguished themselves in every action of their lives and in every branch of knowledge,
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come at last to their consummation. The time has now arrived at which they
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must raise the eye of the soul to the universal light which lightens all things,
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and behold the absolute good. For that is the pattern according to which
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they are to order the state and the lives of individuals, and the remainder
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of their own lives, also making philosophy their chief pursuit. But when their
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turn comes toiling also at politics and ruling for the public good, not as
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though they were performing some heroic action, but simply as a matter of duty.
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And when they have brought up in each generation others like themselves, and
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led them in their place to be governors of the state, then they will
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depart to the islands of the Blest and dwell there, and the city will
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give them public memorials and sacrifices, and honor them if the Pythian oracle consent,
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as demi gods. But if not, as in any case, blest
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and divine, you are as sculptor's socrates, and have made statues of our
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governors faultless in beauty, yes, I said Glaucon, and of our governesses
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too, for you must not see. Suppose that what I have been saying
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applies to men only, and not to women, as far as their natures
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can go. There you are right, he said, since we have made
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them to share in all things like the men. Well, I said,
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and you would agree, would you not, that what has been said about
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the state and the government is not a mere dream, and, although difficult,
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not impossible, but only possible in the way which has been supposed,
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That is to say, when the true philosopher kings are born in a state,
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one or more of them despising the honors of this present world, which
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they deem mean and worthless, esteeming above all things right and the honor that
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springs from right, and regarding justice as the greatest and most necessary of all
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things, whose ministers they are, and whose principles will be exalted by them.
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When they sat in order their own city, how will they proceed.
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They will begin by sending out into the country all the inhabitants of the city
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who are more than ten years old, and will take possession of their children,
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who will be unaffected by the habits of their parents. These they will
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train in their own habits and laws, I mean, in the laws which
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we have given them. And in this way the state and constitution of which
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we were speaking will soonest and most easily attain happiness, and the nation which
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has such a constitution will gain most Yes, that will be the best way.
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And I think, Socrates, that you have very well described how if
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ever such a constitution might come into being. Enough, then of the perfect
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state and of the man who bears its image, there is no difficulty in
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seeing how we shall describe him. There is no difficulty, he replied,
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And I agree with you in thinking that nothing more need be said. End
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of Book seven