Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Growing Up With an Attachment Expert: Grief, Love & Life as Gen Z | Gabby Hensley | E5

Transcript

Growing Up With an Attachment Expert: Grief, Love & Life as Gen Z | Gabby Hensley | E5 · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

0:00
Speaker 1: People aren't random, They're incredibly predictable. This is a show
0:05
Speaker 1: about the science of human behavior, relationships, emotional healing, and
0:09
Speaker 1: the hidden patterns running our lives that most of us
0:12
Speaker 1: don't even realize exist. Because once you see the pattern,
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Speaker 1: you can finally change it. I'm doctor Sarah.
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Speaker 2: Hensley and I'm Rana Butcher.
0:22
Speaker 1: You think your life is random.
0:24
Speaker 2: It's not. Welcome to the Doctor Sarah Hensley Show. Every
0:31
Speaker 2: parent gets it wrong. Sometimes we've all lost our patients,
0:34
Speaker 2: missed moments, or wondered if we've done lasting damage to
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Speaker 2: our kids. But what if secure parenting was never about
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Speaker 2: being a perfect parent. Today we're going to put that
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Speaker 2: question to the test with our special guest, Doctor Hensley's daughter,
0:49
Speaker 2: someone who knows her more than just a psychologist, but
0:52
Speaker 2: knows her as mom. Hi Gabby, Hi, Hey baby, We're
0:58
Speaker 2: so excited to have you on. We have so many questions,
1:02
Speaker 2: but I think you can really appeal to maybe our
1:05
Speaker 2: younger audience too.
1:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want gen Z to hear this.
1:09
Speaker 2: Yes, all the gen zs need to listen. So I'm
1:13
Speaker 2: going to let your mom start the conversation because I
1:17
Speaker 2: think that she really has the pressing questions that people
1:19
Speaker 2: really want to know.
1:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you decided to be on here. I didn't
1:24
Speaker 1: make you. Let's put that up front because some people
1:27
Speaker 1: might be judging the fact that you're on this podcast.
1:29
Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting because you have goals to
1:32
Speaker 1: kind of go into the same field, maybe follow in
1:35
Speaker 1: my footsteps, and so the training starts early. Just start
1:40
Speaker 1: out and tell people kind of your story from your lens,
1:43
Speaker 1: because I think people have heard your story from my lens,
1:46
Speaker 1: and I think it would be great for people to
1:49
Speaker 1: hear what you do remember about your childhood, the good,
1:53
Speaker 1: the bad, the ugly, and just how your life changed
1:58
Speaker 1: after your dad passed away.
2:02
Speaker 3: I feel like my childhood, I do have a lot
2:05
Speaker 3: of good memories, despite like all of the trauma, which
2:08
Speaker 3: has obviously, you know, been shared across your business and everything.
2:13
Speaker 3: But I'm not gonna say that everything that happened with
2:17
Speaker 3: my dad didn't really have an effect on me, you
2:19
Speaker 3: know what I mean. Even though I do have good
2:21
Speaker 3: memories of him, there are a lot of instances where
2:25
Speaker 3: there were bad ones or I was in a situation
2:27
Speaker 3: that I feel like no child should really be put
2:29
Speaker 3: through by a parent. You know, my dad passed away
2:33
Speaker 3: when I was nine, so it's been almost six years now,
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Speaker 3: which I feel like I have definitely made a lot
2:38
Speaker 3: of growth since then, for sure, and that has a
2:42
Speaker 3: lot to do with my own healing and your healing,
2:45
Speaker 3: and you know, just me growing up in general.
2:47
Speaker 2: But Okay, I think you can speak to a lot
2:51
Speaker 2: of children, or really anybody, because I think anytime that
2:55
Speaker 2: you lose a parent, especially suddenly, right and you know,
3:01
Speaker 2: even though I was thirty four when I lost my mom,
3:03
Speaker 2: it was still sudden. So it's a big traumatic experience.
3:06
Speaker 2: But for when you're young, it's a little harder because
3:08
Speaker 2: you don't necessarily have the coping skills that an adult
3:12
Speaker 2: would have. So can you speak a little bit on
3:15
Speaker 2: like during that time period when your dad passed, just
3:19
Speaker 2: ways that you tried to cope.
3:24
Speaker 3: Well, I was still pretty young, so I feel like
3:27
Speaker 3: I didn't have the most like healthy coping mechanisms. You know.
3:31
Speaker 3: I was very distracted by like pretty much anything I
3:33
Speaker 3: could get my hands on, like friends or a lot
3:36
Speaker 3: of video games, honestly, yeah, and just little activities that
3:41
Speaker 3: I could take my mind off of it. And I
3:42
Speaker 3: feel like my grief came out through a lot of
3:45
Speaker 3: other ways rather than just sadness. I was. I stored
3:48
Speaker 3: a lot with anger. I was very angry a lot
3:51
Speaker 3: of the time, and maybe not very nice or kind
3:55
Speaker 3: to pretty much anybody around me. But I feel like that.
4:00
Speaker 3: But it's pretty normal considering you know, I was still.
4:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and grief is finicky, right, you know, grief
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Speaker 2: is in Sarah. You've said this multiple times. It's like
4:10
Speaker 2: the one emotion we never fully process. And I think
4:13
Speaker 2: it takes on different forms throughout your entire life, you know.
4:17
Speaker 2: I mean, my mom's been gone for eight years, and
4:19
Speaker 2: I still grieve her, you know, at certain moments, and
4:22
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes that grief can come up, not even
4:26
Speaker 2: when I'm expecting it, like sort of out of nowhere,
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Speaker 2: where I'm like, wow, where did this come from? You know,
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Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about her, and then one minute I'm
4:33
Speaker 2: thinking about her. Some memory will come up that kind
4:35
Speaker 2: of sparks some you know, a time in our life
4:38
Speaker 2: that makes me think of her. And I know that
4:41
Speaker 2: where you were so young, your memories probably are are fading.
4:47
Speaker 2: And I know that, like even in that sense, like
4:49
Speaker 2: I've struggled with that too, Like when your memories start
4:52
Speaker 2: to fade, there's this sense of guilt that comes with
4:55
Speaker 2: grief too, and then you're having to process that guilt too,
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Speaker 2: and guilt, I is just part of grief. But I
5:03
Speaker 2: know that, you know, I want to talk a little
5:05
Speaker 2: bit more about your dad, because your mom knows these things.
5:10
Speaker 2: But I really don't like, even though I've known you
5:12
Speaker 2: guys since you were seven eight, just really like some
5:18
Speaker 2: of those moments that you had to live through, specifically
5:22
Speaker 2: in having a younger sibling involved too, and what that
5:26
Speaker 2: felt like and how hard that's been in terms of
5:29
Speaker 2: not just navigating your own grief, but also dealing with
5:32
Speaker 2: a younger sibling who maybe had no idea of how
5:36
Speaker 2: to deal with that. And I know that yours in
5:39
Speaker 2: Lexi's relationship is probably still evolving. Yes, sibling relationships can
5:45
Speaker 2: be very complex. Don't worry. It all turns out okay
5:50
Speaker 2: in the long run. But you know, where are you in,
5:52
Speaker 2: Lexi now?
5:53
Speaker 3: Me and Lexi have definitely made a lot of progress
5:56
Speaker 3: since the time that my dad passed away. Around that time,
6:01
Speaker 3: when I was probably nine or ten, we did not
6:04
Speaker 3: have a very good relationship at all. I was very
6:09
Speaker 3: I guess mean, and I wasn't really taking on the
6:12
Speaker 3: full role that an older shibling should to their younger sibling.
6:16
Speaker 3: I wasn't very nice and I didn't really interact with
6:19
Speaker 3: her in the kindest ways. But I feel like we
6:22
Speaker 3: have made a lot of progress since then. I feel
6:24
Speaker 3: like our relationship has gotten a lot better and stronger,
6:26
Speaker 3: and I'm closer with her.
6:28
Speaker 2: But that's expected as you both mature, you know. I
6:31
Speaker 2: mean again, when you're that young and you lose something
6:34
Speaker 2: like a parent or anyone close to you, I mean,
6:37
Speaker 2: nobody knows how to navigate that. Even adults don't know
6:40
Speaker 2: how to navigate that.
6:42
Speaker 1: Tell people a little bit about your relationship with your
6:44
Speaker 1: sister before your dad died, because I think that's important context.
6:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like when Lexi was like still like
6:53
Speaker 3: a baby, because dad passed when she was three, right,
6:56
Speaker 3: so she was still like very very young, like a
6:58
Speaker 3: little taller and everything. Before dad passed, I feel like
7:01
Speaker 3: me and her had a fairly normal like sibling relationship
7:06
Speaker 3: because me and Lexi are six years apart, so I mean,
7:09
Speaker 3: it was difficult from the start, but I feel like
7:12
Speaker 3: it wasn't as complex as it was before versus after
7:17
Speaker 3: he passed, because I feel like a lot of changed
7:19
Speaker 3: with me and a lot of change with our family,
7:22
Speaker 3: and even if she know she doesn't really remember her,
7:24
Speaker 3: a lot of it affects her subconsciously. Yeah.
7:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of feel like, you know, there was
7:30
Speaker 1: you were very parentified and responsible for taking care of
7:35
Speaker 1: Lexi when you were in your dad. I don't want
7:38
Speaker 1: to speak for you, but from what I remember, when
7:41
Speaker 1: you were in your dad's care, you had a lot
7:43
Speaker 1: of responsibility for your little sister. Yeah, and maybe that
7:47
Speaker 1: created some resentment her a little bit.
7:51
Speaker 3: I definitely do feel like that's possible, because again, a
7:55
Speaker 3: lot of times when we were with Dad, I was
7:58
Speaker 3: like she was partty training at the time, so I
8:00
Speaker 3: was taking her to the bathroom, I was giving her bath,
8:02
Speaker 3: so I was brushing her hair. I would get her
8:03
Speaker 3: ready for school every single morning. Like I really was
8:06
Speaker 3: caring for Lexi like a mom when I was like
8:09
Speaker 3: eight nine years old.
8:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, parentification definitely does, I think subconsciously build
8:16
Speaker 2: some resentment. And I can even attest to that with
8:18
Speaker 2: my own older siblings, you know, And I think it's
8:21
Speaker 2: just part of being an older sibling. It's sort of
8:23
Speaker 2: like this burden you have to carry. I don't know
8:27
Speaker 2: any older sibling that hasn't in some way, shape or form,
8:30
Speaker 2: been parentified in some way. Yeah, doesn't mean it's right
8:34
Speaker 2: or that it's healthy.
8:34
Speaker 1: It's not right. And I think parents need to know
8:37
Speaker 1: that those older children did not decide to have those
8:41
Speaker 1: younger children. You did, and so putting them in charge
8:44
Speaker 1: on a regular basis is not a good thing. I think. Obviously,
8:48
Speaker 1: as a family, you help each other out, right, and
8:51
Speaker 1: we should consider that, you know, good family values for
8:56
Speaker 1: older siblings to help out sometimes, but when they be
9:00
Speaker 1: come primarily responsible for younger siblings, then we have a problem.
9:04
Speaker 2: Well, and especially in the case of your scenario, Gabby,
9:08
Speaker 2: where you know, again I don't I don't want to
9:11
Speaker 2: speak for you or speak for your dad who is
9:13
Speaker 2: no longer here, but I know he had his own struggles, right,
9:17
Speaker 2: And so when there's a parent that has massive struggles,
9:21
Speaker 2: maybe like your dad did, it becomes that's sort of
9:24
Speaker 2: the line, right. It's one thing to like help your
9:27
Speaker 2: younger sibling, but it's a whole other thing when a
9:29
Speaker 2: parent isn't able to come in and really be responsible
9:32
Speaker 2: for that child. And that's where the that's where the
9:35
Speaker 2: line really gets cross. And I think that that happens
9:38
Speaker 2: a lot, maybe not so much more in the society
9:41
Speaker 2: we live in now, with you know, people becoming more
9:45
Speaker 2: aware of attachment parenting and secure attachment of parenting. So
9:50
Speaker 2: that's really the direction I want to go is into
9:53
Speaker 2: that and how you know the things that you've learned
9:56
Speaker 2: from your mom, Because I can sit here and say
10:00
Speaker 2: in the past eight years the things that I've learned
10:02
Speaker 2: from her, but you know, the things that you've learned
10:05
Speaker 2: on this journey of her starting this business and just
10:09
Speaker 2: with the knowledge that she has in this field. I
10:15
Speaker 2: know it was kind of a vague question. Absolutely, Basically
10:18
Speaker 2: the question is you know, how have you taken what
10:22
Speaker 2: your mom does and learned from it.
10:25
Speaker 3: I feel like not only just the direct advice that
10:28
Speaker 3: she's given me, but just being around her and hearing
10:31
Speaker 3: a lot of the advice that she gives other people
10:33
Speaker 3: has definitely helped me because, you know, growing up the
10:36
Speaker 3: way that I did, it has affected, you know, my
10:39
Speaker 3: attachment and my perception of things. It has definitely greatly
10:43
Speaker 3: affected that. And I feel like her advice and teachings
10:48
Speaker 3: has helped me a lot in many different ways because
10:50
Speaker 3: it's not only helped me with my own like attachment
10:53
Speaker 3: within just my relationships and friendships and relationships with my
10:56
Speaker 3: family too. But it's also really helped me in just
10:59
Speaker 3: kind of a grow way and helped me become somebody
11:02
Speaker 3: who has, you know, secure attachment and isn't necessarily affected
11:10
Speaker 3: negatively in the ways of everything happened to me.
11:14
Speaker 2: Well, and based on what your mom's told me, I
11:15
Speaker 2: think it's really showed that you've been able to set
11:18
Speaker 2: really good boundaries, you know, and let's talk. I mean,
11:21
Speaker 2: I don't know how much you want to talk about,
11:23
Speaker 2: so don't feel like you have to. But I think
11:26
Speaker 2: it's important for the younger generation to hear these things
11:28
Speaker 2: because it's so easy to get into high school, find
11:33
Speaker 2: your first relationship and be like, this is it right,
11:36
Speaker 2: this is the love of my life. I'm going to
11:37
Speaker 2: marry this person and I can't wait, no matter how
11:41
Speaker 2: they treat you. And a lot of times young people
11:44
Speaker 2: don't realize that it's painful or it's toxic or and
11:49
Speaker 2: so I think, you know, just based again on what
11:52
Speaker 2: your mom has told me, that you were able to
11:54
Speaker 2: acknowledge some of those things really early on and some
11:57
Speaker 2: of those other relationships you had, and I mean, I
12:01
Speaker 2: don't this isn't necessarily a question. It's just me saying
12:04
Speaker 2: I'm really really proud of you. Yeah, me too, for
12:06
Speaker 2: really really because really proud of you.
12:09
Speaker 1: I think some of the first few guys that were
12:12
Speaker 1: interested in you had some serious issues and some serious
12:16
Speaker 1: attachment trauma, potentially other issues beyond that, and talk about
12:24
Speaker 1: how it felt to just set boundaries and be like.
12:27
Speaker 3: Nah, I'm not gonna ign I'm not gonna not acknowledge
12:33
Speaker 3: the fact that I definitely had some attachment issues at
12:36
Speaker 3: the time. But I feel like in those two relationships
12:38
Speaker 3: that I was in prior to my current boyfriend, they
12:43
Speaker 3: were definitely.
12:46
Speaker 1: The problem, the problem, not.
12:47
Speaker 3: The greatest people. And it put a lot of stress
12:51
Speaker 3: on me because, you know, it was kind of a
12:53
Speaker 3: situation where I was just always made out to be
12:58
Speaker 3: the issue, and it affected me for quite a while
13:03
Speaker 3: because I was in these relationships believing that I was
13:05
Speaker 3: the problem. And then one day I just kind of realized, like,
13:09
Speaker 3: this is not right, this is not healthy, Like somebody
13:11
Speaker 3: who was securely attached would not do this to me.
13:14
Speaker 3: And I kind of was just like, Hey, you're either
13:16
Speaker 3: gonna stop treating me like this or like, I'm not
13:19
Speaker 3: speaking to you ever again.
13:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, and such a beautiful realization for somebody young. I mean,
13:24
Speaker 2: it really is, because it's because it's self love, and
13:28
Speaker 2: learning to love yourself is a life long process and
13:33
Speaker 2: some people don't learn that until way later in life. Yeah.
13:36
Speaker 1: And I think that's when you started taking your attachment
13:39
Speaker 1: journey kind of seriously, because once before you had any
13:43
Speaker 1: kind of romantic interest, it was more of just this
13:46
Speaker 1: abstract concept to you, and it was like I would
13:50
Speaker 1: talk to you about things and it would kind of
13:51
Speaker 1: just like like you didn't really care. But then once
13:55
Speaker 1: you were like, oh wait, I can see it in
13:57
Speaker 1: other people, and I can see how it affects me.
14:00
Speaker 1: I want to do the work. I don't want to
14:02
Speaker 1: be in this situation. Yeah, And you could see how
14:07
Speaker 1: it affected me in my life. So let's go back
14:11
Speaker 1: in time a little bit. Talk to the audience. Because
14:15
Speaker 1: Raina has been able to talk about my change. I've
14:17
Speaker 1: been able to talk about my change. But from your perspective,
14:22
Speaker 1: what was life with me like kind of before I
14:26
Speaker 1: had my healing journey and then after? Like, what what
14:30
Speaker 1: was life like before and then after?
14:32
Speaker 3: I feel like before you started taking the initiative to
14:35
Speaker 3: heal and to change your attachment, everything that had happened.
14:40
Speaker 3: There is definitely a jarnormous difference.
14:45
Speaker 2: YEA, no hold bar here, gabb.
14:46
Speaker 1: You let it all out, Yeah, be honest.
14:49
Speaker 3: Prior to all of your healing, I feel like, obviously
14:53
Speaker 3: there's a lot of differences in a lot of different aspects,
14:55
Speaker 3: but I feel like the biggest difference was you were
14:59
Speaker 3: a a lot more emotionally present after you had healed.
15:03
Speaker 3: Before you had really you know, like I said, taking
15:07
Speaker 3: the initiative to heal, you were not as I guess
15:12
Speaker 3: there emotionally. But I guess there was a lot of
15:14
Speaker 3: factors obviously affecting that, like Gammy and Dad passing, and
15:18
Speaker 3: you know, your recipulo migrant and everything. But it definitely
15:22
Speaker 3: did affect my life and Lexi's life and my attachment
15:27
Speaker 3: and everything.
15:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will fully admit and take full accountability. You
15:31
Speaker 1: know you've said you weren't really you know, very emotionally available.
15:36
Speaker 1: You know, you had a little bit of a hair
15:38
Speaker 1: trigger temper. I think because I and there's no excuse
15:43
Speaker 1: for it, I take full accountability regardless of what I
15:45
Speaker 1: was coping with. And I know it affected you deeply.
15:49
Speaker 1: I know it did because you didn't really have either
15:51
Speaker 1: parent really being able to emotionally lean into you. And
15:57
Speaker 1: I struggle with that every day. If I could go
15:59
Speaker 1: back do it again, I would.
16:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I know every pyear it feels like they
16:03
Speaker 2: could do a million things over again. I think one
16:08
Speaker 2: thing that I can speak on that probably you saw too, Gabby,
16:12
Speaker 2: is just that you're so much more grounded and calm
16:16
Speaker 2: than you were prior. Oh yeah, you were really I
16:20
Speaker 2: mean we've talked about this, but you were really anxious, right.
16:23
Speaker 2: You lived in a state of anxiety, crippling anxiety.
16:27
Speaker 1: It was bad for a while.
16:28
Speaker 2: And now it's like night and day, you know, and
16:32
Speaker 2: we all, you know, we all tend to slide back
16:34
Speaker 2: into some regression when it comes to secure attachment.
16:39
Speaker 1: Right.
16:39
Speaker 2: You often say that there's no such thing as being
16:42
Speaker 2: one hundred percent secure one hundred percent of the time,
16:45
Speaker 2: But catching and correcting is really what it's all about.
16:49
Speaker 2: Even when it comes to secure parenting.
16:51
Speaker 3: Right.
16:51
Speaker 2: We're going to still make mistakes, yep, But it's catching
16:55
Speaker 2: and correcting, going back, apologizing and really really talking to
17:00
Speaker 2: your kids, right, Like, I think that's really important. So
17:03
Speaker 2: often we want to.
17:03
Speaker 1: Yell or lecture, and that's the one thing that she
17:06
Speaker 1: catches me on. I think it's when she just really
17:09
Speaker 1: needs me to be kind of more validating. And then
17:14
Speaker 1: because your kid doesn't have an adult brain and the
17:17
Speaker 1: way that they're viewing things from an adult perspective, you're like, wow,
17:21
Speaker 1: you're so way off right, and you want to teach
17:23
Speaker 1: them that metacognitive skill of sort of challenging their thoughts,
17:28
Speaker 1: but really they're not going to listen until you emotionally
17:30
Speaker 1: validate them first. And so I think one of the
17:33
Speaker 1: catch and correct things that Gabby does for me is
17:35
Speaker 1: like when I start to go into more lecture mode
17:37
Speaker 1: about you know, you're not thinking about this appropriately, She'll
17:40
Speaker 1: be like, Mom, I just need you to be here
17:41
Speaker 1: for me right now, Like I just need you to
17:43
Speaker 1: just like understand my emotions right now. And then I'm like, oh,
17:48
Speaker 1: it switches me. I'm just like Okay, you're right, I'm
17:50
Speaker 1: here for you, and like I'll backtrack. And I think
17:53
Speaker 1: so much of secure attachment comes through repair with your children.
17:58
Speaker 1: And that's the one thing I think I'm really proud
18:00
Speaker 1: of with us is that if there's any kind of
18:02
Speaker 1: disruption at all, you know, I know that I will
18:05
Speaker 1: always come back and try to initiate repair and if
18:09
Speaker 1: you were being a little out of hand or something
18:12
Speaker 1: like which you're never like out of hand. I have
18:14
Speaker 1: literally am so lucky with you, honestly, but if you
18:17
Speaker 1: ever got a little spicy and you know, you hurt
18:20
Speaker 1: my feelings, you'll come back and be like, I'm so sorry,
18:23
Speaker 1: like that wasn't okay? And advice, Oh yeah, I mean
18:27
Speaker 1: I will always till the day I die try to
18:30
Speaker 1: repair things with you. But yeah, talk a little bit
18:35
Speaker 1: about me after so I was emotionally unavailable and kind
18:39
Speaker 1: of checked out, maybe a little bit angry. How did
18:43
Speaker 1: you see me change as a parent?
18:46
Speaker 3: You definitely got a lot better at you know, like
18:50
Speaker 3: you said, being here for me and being able to
18:52
Speaker 3: listen and understand my perspective before you like necessarily corrected
18:55
Speaker 3: my behavior.
18:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about your relationship with your adopted father.
19:05
Speaker 3: I feel like me and Donald definitely have a good relationship,
19:08
Speaker 3: and like sure, at first, it was very very hard
19:12
Speaker 3: for me to kind of develop a relationship with him
19:16
Speaker 3: because when he was first like introduced into my life,
19:20
Speaker 3: I almost saw it as like a replacement of my
19:24
Speaker 3: dad rather than somebody who was stepping up to be
19:27
Speaker 3: here for me. As a father figure. But over time,
19:30
Speaker 3: I feel like I really have gotten better about, you know,
19:33
Speaker 3: everything like that, and I'm very thankful for Donald everything
19:35
Speaker 3: he's done. He's definitely been here for me a lot
19:38
Speaker 3: more than my biological father ever was able to. And
19:41
Speaker 3: I do love him a lot, and you make me.
19:45
Speaker 3: I'm very glad that he stepped up to take on
19:49
Speaker 3: that role because not a lot of people do that.
19:50
Speaker 3: Like he was already my stepdad, but he really, you know,
19:53
Speaker 3: took the initiative to step up and adopt me, and
19:55
Speaker 3: that means a lot.
19:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, he wanted to be your real dad.
19:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's big, guys, that's big, because that is
20:03
Speaker 2: I always say step parenting is maybe the hardest roles.
20:05
Speaker 2: It's so hard there possibly is on the face because.
20:08
Speaker 1: You're like I think Josh has used the term toothless
20:12
Speaker 1: dog when you're a stepparent because it's like you can
20:15
Speaker 1: see things unfolding, but it's not necessarily always your place
20:18
Speaker 1: to come in and make corrections.
20:20
Speaker 2: Right.
20:21
Speaker 1: But now that he's dad dad, he's like, now you
20:23
Speaker 1: gotta listen to me now.
20:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, exactly.
20:27
Speaker 1: So I think I think him adopting you, guys, has
20:29
Speaker 1: been a wonderful thing because he I mean, he's always
20:34
Speaker 1: treated you. I feel like fairly he treats all four kids.
20:37
Speaker 1: I feel like he gives it all to you the
20:39
Speaker 1: same way, you know, holds the expectations the same for everybody,
20:43
Speaker 1: which I really appreciate given the fact that we're a
20:45
Speaker 1: blended family. But what have you learned from our relationship
20:48
Speaker 1: about love?
20:49
Speaker 3: You and Donald? Yeah, well, there was definitely a very big,
20:53
Speaker 3: drastic difference between your adunal's relationship and you and my
20:57
Speaker 3: bio dad's relationship. But you and Donald definitely said a
21:00
Speaker 3: very good example for not only me, but all of
21:04
Speaker 3: my siblings of how it's like to be securely attached
21:07
Speaker 3: and how it's like to be in a happy marriage.
21:09
Speaker 3: And like you guys don't argue really ever, and if
21:13
Speaker 3: you guys are upset about something, I feel like you're
21:15
Speaker 3: very good about talking it out. And that's something that
21:17
Speaker 3: I do see firsthand. I feel like that's definitely had
21:20
Speaker 3: a positive effect on me because, you know, living around
21:23
Speaker 3: that and sort of growing up around it in the
21:26
Speaker 3: most recent years of my life has definitely helped me
21:30
Speaker 3: in not only just my within myself, but in you know,
21:35
Speaker 3: my relationship too. It's helped me be able to communicate
21:38
Speaker 3: better and see that it's it's possible and not everybody's
21:42
Speaker 3: relationship has to have problems.
21:45
Speaker 1: Right, How do you think it's affected your relationship specifically
21:50
Speaker 1: with your current boyfriend, because I feel like this is
21:52
Speaker 1: like your first real relationship. Those other two guys were
21:54
Speaker 1: just kind of like faith. Yeah, yeah, it was. You
21:58
Speaker 1: were young. It was like early freshman year high school,
22:03
Speaker 1: and you weren't like you hadn't really ever had a
22:07
Speaker 1: love interest, and and so you didn't give them much time,
22:11
Speaker 1: which I was I wouldn't do that, I don't feel
22:17
Speaker 1: like because they didn't prove themselves worthy. So you didn't
22:20
Speaker 1: entertain it very long because.
22:21
Speaker 3: They were just bad people. They were just hard to
22:23
Speaker 3: be with because they suck.
22:26
Speaker 1: The right you go, so talk about your current relationship
22:30
Speaker 1: and kind of how you feel like you guys are
22:32
Speaker 1: securely attached because I see it up close and personal,
22:35
Speaker 1: and I'm like, dang, they're very securely attached with each
22:38
Speaker 1: other and that makes me so incredibly happy. Like if
22:42
Speaker 1: you guys have a little difficulty, then you can talk
22:46
Speaker 1: about it and just you don't get anxious about him
22:52
Speaker 1: and he not. You're not so dependent, So like talk
22:55
Speaker 1: about how it feels to be in a secure relationship
22:59
Speaker 1: and how you feel like what you've learned has brought
23:01
Speaker 1: you there.
23:02
Speaker 3: It definitely feels a lot better than trying your reason
23:05
Speaker 3: with somebody who's immature like I had in the past.
23:09
Speaker 3: Kayden does a very good job also of we don't
23:13
Speaker 3: We've never really like had like an argument, Like I've
23:16
Speaker 3: gotten upset over some things, He's gotten upset over somethings.
23:18
Speaker 3: But I feel like both of us are equally good
23:20
Speaker 3: at like getting to it and like communicating what made
23:25
Speaker 3: us feel bad and what upset us, and we're very
23:28
Speaker 3: good at like apologizing and making it right and you know,
23:30
Speaker 3: actually making a change. And I feel like seeing that
23:33
Speaker 3: with you and Donald has definitely helped me be able
23:36
Speaker 3: to follow through and you know, adapt those things into
23:41
Speaker 3: my own relationship, which I'm very thankful for. And I
23:44
Speaker 3: feel like me and Kayden are I would say we
23:46
Speaker 3: are very healthy because neither of us are super dependent
23:49
Speaker 3: on the other. Like we're very good about giving each
23:51
Speaker 3: other space and not being you know, too much or
23:54
Speaker 3: too little. And I'm also very thankful for the fact
23:56
Speaker 3: that Kayden has been very consistent with me throughout our
23:59
Speaker 3: whole relationship.
24:00
Speaker 1: Precious, you, guys, he is so precious. He always opens
24:03
Speaker 1: the door for her. She tries to open the door,
24:05
Speaker 1: he will be like, hold on a second, and he
24:07
Speaker 1: will close it and reopen it for her to come through.
24:10
Speaker 1: He like went to them all the other day. She
24:12
Speaker 1: didn't have a shopping bag in hand. She just had
24:14
Speaker 1: a big chocolate bar. But did you buy a chocolate bar?
24:17
Speaker 1: Walking around mon he had like all these bags as
24:19
Speaker 1: he went by.
24:20
Speaker 3: I try, I try to let him. I try to
24:23
Speaker 3: carry things, carry my own things and stuff, but he
24:25
Speaker 3: literally doesn't let me.
24:27
Speaker 1: He's just he's a very like southern gentleman man. Like
24:31
Speaker 1: he is straight out of hazard all right, Kentucky.
24:33
Speaker 2: He's got the cutest little accent.
24:35
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. He sounds like the code dependency mountain do.
24:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, the code dependency thing really is so important because
24:44
Speaker 4: it's so easy in your first relationship that you ever
24:47
Speaker 4: get into to just like I said just a little
24:50
Speaker 4: while ago, this is my world now, this.
24:52
Speaker 2: Is this is everything to me. Yeah, And you know,
24:56
Speaker 2: and then you tend to let all those other important
24:58
Speaker 2: things in your life kind of fall off to the wayside. Friends, sports, grades,
25:03
Speaker 2: those sorts of things. And it's just I admire your
25:07
Speaker 2: ability to want even acknowledge it and notice it, because
25:12
Speaker 2: a lot of times teenagers can't even do that, but
25:15
Speaker 2: to also foster it, you know, fostering those things is
25:19
Speaker 2: so important. And whether you know, you and Kayden say
25:21
Speaker 2: together and forever and get married or whatever, it will
25:25
Speaker 2: serve you so much better as y'all's relationship starts to evolve,
25:29
Speaker 2: because the fact of the matter is is the person
25:31
Speaker 2: you are today, Gabby is not going to be the
25:33
Speaker 2: person you will be in ten years and then another
25:35
Speaker 2: ten years. You know, you're gonna change and he's gonna change.
25:38
Speaker 2: But I think that if you have those foundational things
25:41
Speaker 2: from a young age, it can work, right. It's not
25:45
Speaker 2: a disaster waiting to happen. Yeah, And so I I
25:49
Speaker 2: just can't tell you how proud I am of you
25:51
Speaker 2: and really just the having the courage to come here
25:55
Speaker 2: today and talk about these really, really hard things.
25:58
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.
25:59
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, I'm I'm not your mom, but
26:02
Speaker 2: I'm over here like just beaming with pride right now.
26:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there, I mean, there was a time we
26:08
Speaker 1: were worried about you. I was right after your dad died.
26:13
Speaker 1: I mean, right after your dad died, you were very angry,
26:16
Speaker 1: and I didn't hold it against you, but I also thought,
26:18
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, is this like, yeah, is this your future?
26:22
Speaker 1: You know?
26:22
Speaker 2: I thought, have I messed up my kids?
26:23
Speaker 1: I thought you were permanently going to be messed up
26:26
Speaker 1: because some of the situations you were in with your
26:28
Speaker 1: dad were horrendous. And you know, I'm not trying to
26:33
Speaker 1: throw them under the bus, but they were just really bad. Yeah,
26:37
Speaker 1: And I mean there was a lot of you know,
26:39
Speaker 1: how many times were you interviewed by a CPS worker
26:42
Speaker 1: at school?
26:43
Speaker 3: A lot?
26:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and that's traumatic. It was traumatic, and it's.
26:47
Speaker 2: Awful, and I want to talk I want to talk
26:49
Speaker 2: to you talk about the you know, the psychological damage
26:53
Speaker 2: that is done to a child when those things happened subconsciously, right, yeah,
26:59
Speaker 2: you know what happened to a child's psyche.
27:01
Speaker 1: Well, it's definitely betrayal trauma because when your parents are
27:05
Speaker 1: the source of your pain again, you know, going back
27:08
Speaker 1: to last week's episode, betrayal is just such a unique
27:11
Speaker 1: psychological injury where the person that is supposed to love you,
27:13
Speaker 1: protect you, care for you, love you unconditionally. Also becomes
27:18
Speaker 1: a source of fear and a source of pain or anxiety,
27:21
Speaker 1: and so love and pain kind of become fused together.
27:23
Speaker 1: And that's your imprint for what love is. And I
27:27
Speaker 1: thought there is absolutely no way in heck that we
27:30
Speaker 1: can undo that imprint in Gabby, I thought there's no way.
27:35
Speaker 1: But it just goes to show you that nervous systems
27:37
Speaker 1: are shapeable, attachment is shapable and multiple, and when you intervene. Obviously,
27:43
Speaker 1: the earlier you can intervene with your children, the better.
27:46
Speaker 1: And obviously our interventions have been dramatically helpful. You were
27:50
Speaker 1: in a lot of therapy, but I don't know if
27:52
Speaker 1: you ever got it much out of it. Honestly, No, I.
27:55
Speaker 3: Don't think therapy necessarily helps me that much because I'm
27:59
Speaker 3: not very good about well opening up about how I'm
28:02
Speaker 3: doing and how I'm feeling. Like I can talk about
28:04
Speaker 3: other people for days and days and days and like
28:06
Speaker 3: talk about other situations, when when it comes to like
28:09
Speaker 3: my well being, that's something that's very difficult for me
28:11
Speaker 3: to talk about. You've got so you've got to feel
28:13
Speaker 3: like therapy was not because.
28:15
Speaker 1: You wouldn't talk to the therapist a lot. But you've
28:19
Speaker 1: learned to talk to me, and I think that that
28:21
Speaker 1: was a really important first one. You had to feel
28:23
Speaker 1: safe with your own attachment figure.
28:25
Speaker 2: Well, I'm finding the language around these really difficult things
28:27
Speaker 2: at a young age is hard, Like that's hard, and
28:31
Speaker 2: and you know, without executive functioning fully online, you know,
28:35
Speaker 2: the brain's not even fully developed, Like the language part
28:39
Speaker 2: is really really difficult. If I had to ask you
28:42
Speaker 2: one question, it would be this. Out of all the
28:45
Speaker 2: ways that you feel like you've been able to heal, right,
28:49
Speaker 2: whether it was therapy or you know, your friends, video games,
28:55
Speaker 2: all those things, what's the one thing that you feel
28:58
Speaker 2: like helped you the most.
29:02
Speaker 3: I feel like the thing that has really made the
29:04
Speaker 3: biggest impact on me is just genuinely taking time to
29:09
Speaker 3: myself and living with my own thoughts, on my own
29:11
Speaker 3: conscious and being able to, I guess, reshape the person
29:18
Speaker 3: I am by myself, like taking time away from other people,
29:23
Speaker 3: not trying to rush into relationships or talking stages or
29:25
Speaker 3: anything like that in a sense of like relationship attachment. Yeah,
29:29
Speaker 3: I just feel like, I guess introspection has helped me
29:33
Speaker 3: so much.
29:33
Speaker 1: Med acognition, yeah.
29:34
Speaker 2: I'm tired of that, and modeling, you know, I do.
29:38
Speaker 2: I can say, you know, I've witnessed you know, your
29:41
Speaker 2: mom and Donald's relationship, and it's beautiful, and that's a
29:43
Speaker 2: beautiful model for you to have. And you know, that's
29:47
Speaker 2: truly a gift. And I think it's a a telltale
29:51
Speaker 2: sign here for our listeners to know that one it's never.
29:54
Speaker 1: Too late, it's not it's not too late to intervene.
29:57
Speaker 1: And I mean both her and I come from massive
30:00
Speaker 1: amounts of relational trauma. I mean we almost you know,
30:04
Speaker 1: we went through it together in some ways. You know,
30:07
Speaker 1: your sister, she doesn't really know anything about you.
30:11
Speaker 3: She doesn't remember Dad at all.
30:12
Speaker 1: Because I just you know, when I do talk about him,
30:15
Speaker 1: I try to talk very positively about him. You're a
30:18
Speaker 1: little bit different because you saw it. You witnessed it,
30:21
Speaker 1: and of course I try to tell you really positive
30:24
Speaker 1: things about your dad, but I can't undo what you
30:27
Speaker 1: saw with your own eyes and what you experienced and
30:29
Speaker 1: the fear and the trauma that was caused by some
30:32
Speaker 1: of those situations. All I could do was help you
30:36
Speaker 1: address it and help you learn to process your emotions,
30:39
Speaker 1: and just kind of touching on what you just said,
30:43
Speaker 1: I think that was really important. Something I tried to
30:45
Speaker 1: kind of pound into the ground, was like, you have
30:48
Speaker 1: to have a good relationship to yourself. You have to
30:51
Speaker 1: be able to be in your own mind and that
30:54
Speaker 1: be a safe, insane place to be. Yes, Because if
31:00
Speaker 1: you aren't okay with yourself and your mind is a
31:03
Speaker 1: scary place to be when you're alone with yourself, then
31:07
Speaker 1: you won't come out of bad relationships because you'll be
31:10
Speaker 1: scared to walk into a loneeness. But I feel like
31:12
Speaker 1: the one thing that I wish that I had at
31:16
Speaker 1: your age was that relationship to myself. I saw so
31:19
Speaker 1: much outside validation. I always had to have a boyfriend
31:22
Speaker 1: or was trying to chase after a guy. All of
31:24
Speaker 1: my worth came from whether somebody liked me. And you
31:28
Speaker 1: are so opposite of me in just the best ways.
31:33
Speaker 1: Like you don't have a stitch of makeup on today
31:35
Speaker 1: in this podcast, I would never have left the house
31:37
Speaker 1: without makeup on.
31:38
Speaker 2: I have like four layers on right now. Yeah.
31:40
Speaker 1: Same, no, But just you're just yeah no, But I
31:46
Speaker 1: mean you don't have to.
31:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it for fun. You're not in the
31:51
Speaker 3: way that I need it.
31:52
Speaker 1: You're just willing. You have always been willing to be yourself,
31:57
Speaker 1: and that was not something I was willing to do.
31:59
Speaker 1: I was always trying to be who I thought other
32:01
Speaker 1: people would approve of or who other people wanted me
32:04
Speaker 1: to be. And you are so beautifully authentic. And we
32:08
Speaker 1: also all know that authenticity is most regulating state to
32:12
Speaker 1: the nervous system. So talk just a little bit about that,
32:15
Speaker 1: about you know, the K pop years and just being
32:20
Speaker 1: yourself and what that you know, the drive to be
32:22
Speaker 1: yourself that you feel like you've had, well.
32:25
Speaker 3: I feel like I have never necessarily been like super
32:31
Speaker 3: basic or like just like a trend hopper with what's popular.
32:35
Speaker 3: I feel like I've I'm not saying I don't have
32:37
Speaker 3: any like interest in what is relevant, you know, I
32:40
Speaker 3: guess in my generation, but I've pretty much always had
32:43
Speaker 3: my own interests and stuff like like K pop. I
32:47
Speaker 3: was so very, very very into like the cable finom
32:53
Speaker 3: and all that for like a very long time, from
32:55
Speaker 3: the time I was probably like nine until like even
32:58
Speaker 3: like now, like I still keep up with it, not
33:00
Speaker 3: nearly as much, but like it's still relevant, you know.
33:03
Speaker 3: And in middle school I definitely got mad in front
33:05
Speaker 3: of a lot, like.
33:08
Speaker 1: Like a lot, but I really but you didn't care.
33:12
Speaker 1: You were like whatever, Like I don't care.
33:14
Speaker 3: I feel like going into high school, though, I did
33:16
Speaker 3: change my trajectory just a little bit. I started dressing
33:18
Speaker 3: more basic and you know, like adapting more to people
33:22
Speaker 3: around me. But I still kept my same interests and
33:24
Speaker 3: I've always been very open about my interest It's like
33:26
Speaker 3: what I like, like my music, and like games that
33:29
Speaker 3: I like in movies and all that stuff, because I
33:31
Speaker 3: feel like, why be ashamed of things that you like?
33:35
Speaker 3: You know, even if I don't necessarily I feel like
33:37
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily dress to fit a lot of my interests,
33:42
Speaker 3: you know, but I still feel like I'm very authentic
33:44
Speaker 3: in the way that I'm open about what I like,
33:46
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.
33:47
Speaker 2: Sure, Well, in the times that I've been around you,
33:49
Speaker 2: I can say that you're always very honest and like
33:55
Speaker 2: you're not trying to you know, because sometimes with kids
33:57
Speaker 2: that eat with like another adult adult around, I feel
34:01
Speaker 2: like maybe they have to be overly polite or you know,
34:05
Speaker 2: things that we were taught when we were young, be
34:07
Speaker 2: a good girl, or say please and think you not
34:10
Speaker 2: that you don't do those things. I'm just saying that
34:11
Speaker 2: you're always very authentically yourself. Like how I would describe you,
34:15
Speaker 2: Gabby is I feel confident that even at your age,
34:20
Speaker 2: I could probably sit down with you and have an
34:23
Speaker 2: adult type open conversation.
34:26
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that your trauma has
34:28
Speaker 1: done for you is that it's made you kind of
34:32
Speaker 1: more emotionally mature than some of your peers, and that
34:35
Speaker 1: has in some ways been frustrating to you extremely because
34:39
Speaker 1: you feel like you're looking at people and in your
34:43
Speaker 1: intellect and in your emotional maturity, you're so much older
34:47
Speaker 1: than them. So talk a little bit about that struggle.
34:50
Speaker 3: I feel like there's been a lot of times within
34:52
Speaker 3: like not only just friendships, but just like people I
34:54
Speaker 3: surround myself with and even relationships where it's hard for
34:59
Speaker 3: me to understand and that not everybody can I don't know,
35:04
Speaker 3: conceptualize and understand other people's behavior the same way that
35:08
Speaker 3: I do. Like it almost I don't want to say
35:11
Speaker 3: it makes me mad, but it really does make me
35:13
Speaker 3: mad whenever people just they just have such an inability
35:17
Speaker 3: to understand, and it's like, why, you know? And I
35:21
Speaker 3: also feel like that's where a lot of I would
35:23
Speaker 3: like to say I'm pretty empathetic. I feel like That's
35:27
Speaker 3: a lot of where a lot of my empathy like
35:29
Speaker 3: derives from, is being able to understand why other people
35:32
Speaker 3: act the way they do and you know, are the
35:35
Speaker 3: way they are, you know.
35:36
Speaker 1: What I mean, dear, Yeah, she has an ability to
35:41
Speaker 1: be like, well, this person's probably like this because their
35:43
Speaker 1: parents are like this, And I'm like, oh goodness, it's
35:46
Speaker 1: a blessing and a curse. And I can tell you
35:48
Speaker 1: the ability, the ability to really empathize or even simulate
35:52
Speaker 1: someone else's mind.
35:53
Speaker 2: But the gift of that is that you're not easily offendable, right,
35:56
Speaker 2: So beautiful. That's a beautiful gift to have, is that
35:59
Speaker 2: when you're able to understand others, then you can't be
36:03
Speaker 2: offended by them. You know, you're just like, well, because
36:06
Speaker 2: you have this level of understanding of them, why maybe
36:10
Speaker 2: they do the things they do.
36:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the thing that has made me
36:15
Speaker 1: so proud, well, there's so many things, but one of
36:17
Speaker 1: the things that have made me so proud is sort
36:19
Speaker 1: of your anti bullying stance and how you're kind of
36:22
Speaker 1: like friends with everybody, and how you'll stick up for
36:25
Speaker 1: people when they're being bullied, and just bullying really makes
36:29
Speaker 1: you angry because you're like, you have no idea what
36:31
Speaker 1: that person might be going through in their home life,
36:33
Speaker 1: and to judge them or to pick on them that
36:36
Speaker 1: could be the stressor that like puts them over the edge.
36:40
Speaker 3: Yeah.
36:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm proud of that too, because that's sure one
36:43
Speaker 2: that is a really big one. And even you know,
36:46
Speaker 2: those who bully, there has to be a level of understanding,
36:48
Speaker 2: even for those because who knows what they're going through?
36:51
Speaker 2: Is it right? Absolutely not? But I know that it's
36:54
Speaker 2: an ongoing issue, you know, especially in high school. I
36:57
Speaker 2: want to ask something about high school specifically because your
37:00
Speaker 2: mom and are quite far removed from Yeah. Yeah, what
37:05
Speaker 2: is the high school landscape like now?
37:08
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I know a little bit. She
37:10
Speaker 1: she's pretty good sharing with me.
37:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, high school was definitely I mean, obviously I can't
37:14
Speaker 3: speak for how high school was for you guys, because
37:16
Speaker 3: you know, I was like negative something years old, so
37:18
Speaker 3: I have no idea, but high school for me is
37:21
Speaker 3: definitely very Everybody I feel like, really has their people,
37:26
Speaker 3: you know, and if you're somebody who doesn't really have
37:29
Speaker 3: a group or have their people, it's definitely a lot
37:31
Speaker 3: more difficult than somebody who fits in, Like I guess
37:35
Speaker 3: a certain category, you know what I mean, And how
37:38
Speaker 3: people dress and how people look and you know, express
37:42
Speaker 3: themselves definitely has an effect on how they're treated, and that, unfortunately,
37:47
Speaker 3: is something that is very very common throughout not only
37:52
Speaker 3: just high school, but middle school and just everywhere age media.
37:56
Speaker 2: How do you feel like social media has had an
37:58
Speaker 2: effect on has I.
38:00
Speaker 3: Feel like it has a very big effect on people,
38:01
Speaker 3: because a lot of people's confidence derives from social media,
38:05
Speaker 3: like people who I know a lot of people who
38:07
Speaker 3: present themselves completely different on social media than they do
38:11
Speaker 3: in real life, you know. And I feel like a
38:12
Speaker 3: lot of people, you know, can't function if they don't
38:18
Speaker 3: have validation, and a lot of it does come from
38:21
Speaker 3: social media. And I'm not trying to dog on that
38:22
Speaker 3: because I do have my own social media sure, and
38:24
Speaker 3: I post myself and my friends and everything on my
38:27
Speaker 3: social media very frequently. But I feel like I am
38:29
Speaker 3: still able to be myself and know my self worth
38:32
Speaker 3: even if I didn't express myself on my social media.
38:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and I think that that's probably a
38:37
Speaker 2: struggle amongst a lot of young people. It's like, how
38:40
Speaker 2: do you derive self worth out of other people's validation
38:44
Speaker 2: outside of other people's validation with the world that we
38:47
Speaker 2: live in, right, because we live in this digital world.
38:51
Speaker 2: We live in this place where it's like, how many
38:54
Speaker 2: likes am I going to get? How many people are
38:55
Speaker 2: going to see this? Who's going to comment on this?
38:57
Speaker 2: You know? And I think that you know, gen z
39:00
Speaker 2: is under I think it's a really exciting time to
39:04
Speaker 2: be alive. I don't want to like make it sound unhopeful.
39:07
Speaker 1: It is.
39:07
Speaker 2: It's a hopeful time to be alive. But I also
39:09
Speaker 2: think it's a time where you guys are going to
39:12
Speaker 2: be faced with way different challenges and already are right,
39:17
Speaker 2: you already are presented with different challenges than like your
39:21
Speaker 2: mom and I were presented with and it becomes that
39:23
Speaker 2: much harder to get past them. And I think that's
39:27
Speaker 2: really the importance of this whole episode is how do
39:30
Speaker 2: we teach our children to be more secure in who
39:35
Speaker 2: they are and in them like loving themselves because self love. Man,
39:40
Speaker 2: I'm telling you right now, I'm still learning it. Yeah,
39:44
Speaker 2: I am still learning those things. Journey, Yeah, yeah, How
39:47
Speaker 2: do we help your generation?
39:49
Speaker 1: I think there's enough research now to show that attachment
39:54
Speaker 1: anxiety is increasing in your generation anxiety in general is increasing. Tell,
39:58
Speaker 1: first of all, tell our audience the name for someone
40:00
Speaker 1: who has attachment anxiety a bird. A bird that.
40:05
Speaker 3: Is, I have a lot of friends that are just
40:11
Speaker 3: very just openly birds. I guess the phrase I use
40:15
Speaker 3: a lot is shake your head. Let me know if
40:16
Speaker 3: you hear rocks, because I know a lot of people
40:20
Speaker 3: that I guess are so anxious and so insecure them
40:24
Speaker 3: themselves that they can't leave a relationship with somebody who
40:26
Speaker 3: treats them like absolutely horribly, Like people who will stay
40:30
Speaker 3: in a relationship where they're constantly cheated on, or their
40:33
Speaker 3: boyfriend or girlfriend treats them just like like crappy.
40:38
Speaker 2: Birds.
40:39
Speaker 1: That was the biggest bird you mother, goose. Yeah, so
40:48
Speaker 1: I hear about the birds. But why do you think
40:50
Speaker 1: attachment anxiety is increasing in your generation? Specifically because our
40:55
Speaker 1: generation had a lot of avoidant people, because our parents
40:58
Speaker 1: just left us in the desk.
41:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I was emotionally unavailable. We know that, right,
41:05
Speaker 1: You were very fa towards the avoidance side.
41:08
Speaker 3: I've never really been very anxious. I've always really struggled
41:11
Speaker 3: with the avoidance anymore though I'm great now.
41:13
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, in my past, yeah, because the guys
41:17
Speaker 1: that you were with were when they were me and
41:19
Speaker 1: you would shut down. Yeah, because it's like, a those
41:22
Speaker 1: weren't real relationships. I don't count.
41:24
Speaker 3: I can't really what's all. I can't really speak on
41:26
Speaker 3: those anxious attachment because I've just never really struggled with it.
41:29
Speaker 3: I've never felt what it's like, because it's like, if
41:31
Speaker 3: somebody ever treated me poorly, it's like, oh my god,
41:35
Speaker 3: you I'm leaving, like get away from me. Like I've
41:38
Speaker 3: never really felt the sense of like, oh, but when
41:40
Speaker 3: it's good, it's so good. It's like when I did
41:43
Speaker 3: struggle with avoidance a lot, I would leave even if
41:44
Speaker 3: it was good, Like I just did like people. So
41:47
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, you know, I feel like attachment anxiety
41:49
Speaker 3: has increased a lot in our generation. I feel like
41:51
Speaker 3: it does have a lot to do with like phones
41:54
Speaker 3: and communication outside of seeing each other. You know, people
41:57
Speaker 3: wanting to constantly being on the people wanting to constantly
42:00
Speaker 3: be on the phone, people wanting to sleep on the phone,
42:03
Speaker 3: constantly texting, and everything like that. And I feel like
42:06
Speaker 3: that has had a lot to do with the rise
42:08
Speaker 3: of anxious attachment because you know, people get so used
42:11
Speaker 3: to having constant communication and like stuff like that, even
42:14
Speaker 3: outside of seeing each other. I feel like I know
42:16
Speaker 3: a lot of people that get into relationships and barely
42:19
Speaker 3: ever hang out with their partner. They're just always in
42:21
Speaker 3: the phone or text. It's like this sho doesn't work
42:24
Speaker 3: with me.
42:24
Speaker 2: YEA identity I think is a big issue, right because
42:27
Speaker 2: so much of our younger generation, their identity is misled
42:32
Speaker 2: or simply just forgotten because they're so tied to these devices.
42:40
Speaker 2: So it's hard when you're so tied to a device. Yes,
42:43
Speaker 2: maybe you find interest online, but what are your interest
42:47
Speaker 2: outside of that? What are your interests outside of you know,
42:51
Speaker 2: watching YouTube videos or you know, being on the phone
42:55
Speaker 2: with your girlfriend or your boyfriend. It's hard to know that.
42:59
Speaker 2: And you know, and I think this is why, you know,
43:01
Speaker 2: sports and activities are more important for our kids than
43:05
Speaker 2: ever moving your body. These basic things that we did have,
43:10
Speaker 2: you know, when we were younger, because we didn't live
43:12
Speaker 2: in this digital age, that are so important that we
43:14
Speaker 2: really in addition to you know, secure parenting, we've got
43:18
Speaker 2: to get back to and not to the point where
43:20
Speaker 2: sometimes I think it's so overwhelming. I mean, you're a
43:23
Speaker 2: cheer mom, so I like you tell me the things
43:27
Speaker 2: that go on with the cheer life, and I'm just like,
43:30
Speaker 2: this feels like too much. You know, a lot, because
43:33
Speaker 2: I got.
43:34
Speaker 1: Two of them. You know, cheer is a lot. High
43:36
Speaker 1: school cheer is extremely demanding. How is it to though?
43:40
Speaker 3: Cheer has definitely helped me, I feel like, because it
43:45
Speaker 3: gives me something to look forward to at the end
43:48
Speaker 3: of the day. That's not something that's on my phone
43:50
Speaker 3: or that's not a person you know, and it's your body,
43:55
Speaker 3: very physically demanding. I feel like there's a big argument
43:57
Speaker 3: whether cheer is a sport or not. Oh no, girl,
43:59
Speaker 3: it is us ause if you saw how it's an extreme,
44:02
Speaker 3: if you saw how cheerleaders condition. We work like I
44:06
Speaker 3: know so many football players that will be like all
44:07
Speaker 3: cheers in a sport, y'all don't even do anything. But
44:10
Speaker 3: as a team, we condition more than the football team
44:13
Speaker 3: has and probably the last ten years that they've been
44:16
Speaker 3: in air.
44:17
Speaker 1: Because it's a year round sport.
44:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't have an off season. The most break
44:20
Speaker 3: we get is when the season ends in March. We
44:24
Speaker 3: get probably three weeks and then it picks right back up.
44:26
Speaker 3: That's it versus seasonal sports like football or basketball when
44:29
Speaker 3: they only have like a probably three or four month
44:32
Speaker 3: sport and then have the rest of the year to
44:34
Speaker 3: you know, like train and stuff, but they're not in
44:36
Speaker 3: active season.
44:37
Speaker 2: That is so important, you know, it keeps it keeps
44:39
Speaker 2: your mind from going idle or yeah, you know, I'm
44:44
Speaker 2: I'm a huge component of moving your body for your
44:46
Speaker 2: mental health and it's it's tremendously helpful, especially in our
44:50
Speaker 2: young children.
44:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
44:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, So again, I'm just so proud.
44:54
Speaker 1: Of I know, I couldn't be more proud and talk
44:57
Speaker 1: to us a little bit about because in our days,
45:02
Speaker 1: drinking and drug use. I mean, those were kind of
45:04
Speaker 1: big things. Your generation doesn't drink as much. You don't
45:09
Speaker 1: drink at all as far as I freaking know. But
45:11
Speaker 1: I know you are. I know you are. If it's
45:14
Speaker 1: one thing your dad did, it was make you afraid
45:16
Speaker 1: of drugs and alcohol, I think, But what is it like,
45:22
Speaker 1: what is the sort of the substance abuse landscape like, yeah,
45:25
Speaker 1: oh kids your age, I.
45:27
Speaker 3: Feel like there's I'm not gonna say, it's definitely a
45:30
Speaker 3: lot less than your generation. Again, I don't know firsthand.
45:33
Speaker 3: All I can speak on is really you know, gen z,
45:35
Speaker 3: But I feel like there's a big rise in rather
45:38
Speaker 3: than like like you guys, I guess like smokes cigarettes
45:42
Speaker 3: and all that stuff. Everybody, correct, everybody vapes, everybody has
45:46
Speaker 3: yarns and stuff, and everybody like pretty much just smokes marijuana.
45:51
Speaker 1: Like if you don't know what a yurt is, I
45:55
Speaker 1: had to learn it's a THHC vape. Oh okay, a yard,
46:00
Speaker 1: Which is why I had such a problem with gen
46:03
Speaker 1: Z customer service. It's the worst, right, Gay's just like
46:07
Speaker 1: everybody's smoking yards, mom, they can't get your order right.
46:10
Speaker 1: It's why I swear I've never had a door like
46:14
Speaker 1: a Starbucks order that's really been correct.
46:17
Speaker 3: It's been I mean, I've never I'm not gonna make
46:20
Speaker 3: fun of people because I've never really had a job,
46:21
Speaker 3: so I'm like too unemployed to even be talking about
46:23
Speaker 3: other people's work ethics. But there's I do know a
46:27
Speaker 3: lot of people that you know, friends that have jobs
46:30
Speaker 3: and stuff that show up, you know, high as a kite,
46:34
Speaker 3: and it's.
46:34
Speaker 1: Like that I think they're.
46:39
Speaker 3: Better than me in the aspect of work because I'm
46:41
Speaker 3: not even working, so props.
46:43
Speaker 1: Even having a job so much more available, Like for
46:46
Speaker 1: when you get your license, you're gonna have a job.
46:48
Speaker 1: The reason you don't have a job is because I can't.
46:50
Speaker 1: I don't have time to take you the world.
46:52
Speaker 3: What am I gonna do if I with cheer? Though,
46:54
Speaker 3: I literally have cheer when the school your starts. I
46:57
Speaker 3: have cheer like every single day of the week. It's
47:00
Speaker 3: up like Tuesday practice on Saturday.
47:01
Speaker 2: That's kind of crazy. Yeah that's going to be tough.
47:04
Speaker 1: I don't do that too.
47:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's going to be tough to work around. You know,
47:08
Speaker 2: you might just have to to work that out. Back
47:12
Speaker 2: to the drugs though, I think thing the thing with
47:15
Speaker 2: us and our generation, Sayah, is like we had to
47:18
Speaker 2: sneak more, right, it was you had to be more secretive,
47:22
Speaker 2: like you had to go to the food week.
47:23
Speaker 1: You get away with it because nobody knew where we were. Right,
47:27
Speaker 1: you could just lie into your parents now like you
47:30
Speaker 1: can't lie. I've got you on the Life three sixty
47:32
Speaker 1: and it's in my eyes. But also like you.
47:33
Speaker 3: Can look where everywhere. I never I literally never leave
47:36
Speaker 3: the house. Maybe that's bad, but like you do too.
47:39
Speaker 3: I hang out with I hang out with Kaden and
47:41
Speaker 3: my friends sometimes and you see I'm just at their
47:44
Speaker 3: house and I just go home like I don't ever
47:46
Speaker 3: go anywhere.
47:47
Speaker 2: I do find it interesting that this generation and hopeful
47:49
Speaker 2: that this generation isn't drinking as much, because I do
47:53
Speaker 2: think that, you know, drinking is more dangerous than THHC. Now, obviously,
47:58
Speaker 2: you know from a young age. THHC has its problems too,
48:01
Speaker 2: especially if you're not using it in moderation and you're
48:03
Speaker 2: using it too much, you know, in terms of brain
48:06
Speaker 2: development and those sorts of things. But I think that
48:10
Speaker 2: because it's so available and that kids are just like, yeah,
48:14
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take my what's it called your art, my yart,
48:18
Speaker 2: like they could take it to school.
48:20
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, the bathroom, like it smells like weed. If
48:23
Speaker 1: you walk in all the high schools, in all of them.
48:25
Speaker 3: I probably shouldn't dropped my school name, but if you
48:27
Speaker 3: walk into my school, you can smell it, like two
48:29
Speaker 3: feet from the entrance. You walk in, and it's just
48:31
Speaker 3: like it's just like weed, like marijuana, just straight. But
48:35
Speaker 3: that's every high school in the city.
48:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, when she cheers like at other schools,
48:40
Speaker 1: like and has competitions or showcases at other schools, it's
48:43
Speaker 1: every school. It's every single one that is wild. It
48:46
Speaker 1: just smells just like.
48:49
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, so I find this very interesting. So while
48:51
Speaker 2: alcohol consumption goes down, it appears as if consumption.
48:55
Speaker 1: Is going away more so.
48:57
Speaker 2: So I mean, you know, we don't have the answer
49:00
Speaker 2: to that, guys, just yet, but you know, I foresee
49:02
Speaker 2: that coming.
49:03
Speaker 1: Just I mean, try, I guess, try to. I don't know,
49:05
Speaker 1: why do you not do drugs? I tried to tell
49:09
Speaker 1: you they were horrible?
49:09
Speaker 3: And you know what, I was nine my dad died
49:12
Speaker 3: of drugs. I don't happen.
49:14
Speaker 1: He had a drug and alcohol overdose. So I think
49:17
Speaker 1: that as bad as it was, that was the one
49:20
Speaker 1: thing that was in your favor. Was I think it
49:22
Speaker 1: made you really scared.
49:23
Speaker 3: I also, I just have the addiction on both sides
49:26
Speaker 3: of my family. I just have no interest of possibly
49:29
Speaker 3: risking getting addicted anything because you know, clearly the addiction
49:35
Speaker 3: is a disease. It's not something that's easy to overcome
49:38
Speaker 3: in the slightest bit for anybody. And so I just
49:41
Speaker 3: I never want to risk being somebody who you know,
49:43
Speaker 3: turns out like my dad. No, no offense to him. Yeah,
49:46
Speaker 3: I don't mean that a bad way. I just don't
49:48
Speaker 3: want to.
49:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's totally fair to not want to
49:53
Speaker 2: go down that same path, you know. And that's and
49:56
Speaker 2: the fact that again that you're acknowledging it early on
49:59
Speaker 2: is very imp important, very important. I can't think I'm
50:04
Speaker 2: trying to think of anything else that I want to
50:05
Speaker 2: ask you while I have you here, because I mean, obviously,
50:07
Speaker 2: I have a child who just graduated from high school,
50:10
Speaker 2: you know, a little while ago. But you know, he's
50:12
Speaker 2: a boy, so I can't like get into his brain.
50:15
Speaker 2: He's not going to talk to me like you know
50:16
Speaker 2: you talk to us and stuff.
50:18
Speaker 1: Having a girl. I get the tea.
50:19
Speaker 2: I know everybody, I don't get any tea.
50:21
Speaker 1: I get all the tea, and I think it's over here.
50:24
Speaker 2: Okay, it's pure crickets. If I didn't have JP's girlfriend
50:28
Speaker 2: to you know, kind of feel me in on things,
50:30
Speaker 2: I would not know anything, absolutely nothing. He would tell
50:33
Speaker 2: me nothing.
50:33
Speaker 3: So I talked to a lot. We definitely did. We
50:36
Speaker 3: do have a good relationship. I tell her pretty much everything.
50:38
Speaker 2: That's so very aware. That's so precious, so thankful. Yeah,
50:43
Speaker 2: you should be, and you should be proud of yourselves.
50:46
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm proud of us. I'm proud of y'all too.
50:49
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of y'all.
50:51
Speaker 3: We have come a long way.
50:52
Speaker 1: We have come a long way, a.
50:53
Speaker 2: Long way, and I can attest to it because I've
50:56
Speaker 2: seen I've seen the journey, not you know, in the
50:59
Speaker 2: throes of your every day life obviously, but I've seen
51:02
Speaker 2: the journey from you know, where your mom was to
51:04
Speaker 2: where she is now. And you know, Gabby, with you,
51:06
Speaker 2: it's a little bit different. You were just so young
51:08
Speaker 2: when I met you, and but you know, and I
51:11
Speaker 2: don't know if you want to talk about this, but
51:13
Speaker 2: I you know, the day of your dad's funeral, you
51:17
Speaker 2: were so incredibly brave. You were so incredibly brave and
51:22
Speaker 2: more than me. Yeah, I can say that. I mean,
51:25
Speaker 2: I love your friend, but you you really, you really
51:27
Speaker 2: were because you wanted. You know, your mom was very
51:31
Speaker 2: apprehensive and rightfully so to to you know, kind of
51:35
Speaker 2: maybe hold you back from to wanting to go see
51:38
Speaker 2: your dad like that, but you wanted to and you
51:41
Speaker 2: stood your ground and you, you know, you said your
51:44
Speaker 2: goodbyes and you did it with so much courage for
51:49
Speaker 2: somebody who was just eight years old, you know. And
51:51
Speaker 2: I saw that firsthand, and you know, and I remember
51:55
Speaker 2: sitting there with Sarah as she was you know, battling
51:59
Speaker 2: whether to you know, and no parents should ever have
52:01
Speaker 2: to battle that because you don't know the right answer.
52:05
Speaker 2: You know, you don't know the right answer whether to
52:07
Speaker 2: let your child go or to hold them back.
52:09
Speaker 1: But for context, he was purple, yeah, and they had
52:14
Speaker 1: a lot of makeup on him. But when he died,
52:16
Speaker 1: he had.
52:16
Speaker 3: He was like he looked gray because of the yeah.
52:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, because when he overdosed, he fell onto the steering
52:23
Speaker 1: wheel forward and so and he was like that for
52:25
Speaker 1: a really long time. So he was I think it's
52:28
Speaker 1: called lividity, I think. And so he did not look good, right,
52:35
Speaker 1: And I was terrified for her to see him up close,
52:41
Speaker 1: and so I almost didn't allow it, but she decided
52:44
Speaker 1: and her her grandmother took her up there.
52:46
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go, but yeah, I remember, I remember, because
52:49
Speaker 2: I remember sitting with you.
52:50
Speaker 1: I just couldn't. I couldn't do it.
52:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just you know, kind of encouraging you again
52:55
Speaker 2: to just let her decide. But that is so hard
52:59
Speaker 2: right at that age, to know whether to let them
53:02
Speaker 2: decide or not, because there's so many things that are
53:05
Speaker 2: going through your head as a parent. Is this how
53:07
Speaker 2: they'll remember them? Is this you know. I mean that
53:10
Speaker 2: would be the biggest thing for me, is like, this
53:12
Speaker 2: isn't how I want her to remember her.
53:14
Speaker 1: And I didn't want to remember him that way. Sure,
53:16
Speaker 1: so I chose not to go, but I felt like
53:19
Speaker 1: I was going to ultimately leave it up to her. Yeah,
53:22
Speaker 1: and because I don't ever, I didn't want her to
53:25
Speaker 1: hold that against it. Sure, But I also was like,
53:27
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, is this gonna like traumatize you to
53:30
Speaker 1: the nth degree?
53:31
Speaker 2: You know? And that's the thing, that's the thing.
53:33
Speaker 1: You felt like it helped you.
53:34
Speaker 3: I feel like you did. But it's definitely a picture
53:37
Speaker 3: that I will remember, like indented in for the rest
53:41
Speaker 3: of my life. But I feel like it did. It
53:43
Speaker 3: gave me a lot of perspective, yeah, for being you know,
53:47
Speaker 3: I was only nine.
53:47
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, and I think that's the battle here,
53:50
Speaker 2: right as parents and trying to suc you know, parent
53:55
Speaker 2: your children securely, it's always the battle of should I
53:59
Speaker 2: do this or should I do that?
54:01
Speaker 3: Oh?
54:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, where's the line? What line do I cross?
54:06
Speaker 2: When do I you know, draw the line in the sand?
54:09
Speaker 2: And you know, and this this just goes to show
54:11
Speaker 2: that attachment. It spans all relationships you know, it's it's
54:16
Speaker 2: not just our romantic relationships, even though that's where it's
54:19
Speaker 2: most prevalent, that's where it shows up the most. You know,
54:22
Speaker 2: attachment parenting is a real thing.
54:24
Speaker 1: It starts in your attachment is formed by your parents, right,
54:27
Speaker 1: your parents shape your attachment. Yeah, so, you know, I
54:31
Speaker 1: really hate these mantras that you just have to be
54:33
Speaker 1: a good enough parent and you just have to kids
54:35
Speaker 1: are resilient. Kids are not resilient. They're adaptive. They will adapt,
54:39
Speaker 1: but the survival strategies that they use to adapt are
54:43
Speaker 1: also the same strategies that cause them problems in their relationship.
54:47
Speaker 1: So if you tell your kid they can't feel their emotions,
54:49
Speaker 1: tell them to lock it up or shut it down
54:51
Speaker 1: or stop crying, then that's what they're going to learn
54:54
Speaker 1: to do. They're going to learn to be suppressors. So
54:57
Speaker 1: in their relationship, then they're not gonna be able to
54:59
Speaker 1: open up because they suppress their own feelings. They're not
55:01
Speaker 1: gonna be able to deal to feelings of the person
55:03
Speaker 1: you know that they're in a relationship with. If you know,
55:06
Speaker 1: you yell a lot, and you establish a connection between
55:09
Speaker 1: the child's emotions and fear their own emotions are going
55:12
Speaker 1: to stimulate their nervous system into a fear response. You know,
55:15
Speaker 1: they're going to have lots of anxiety or depression. And
55:18
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so much that goes into that
55:24
Speaker 1: parent child relationship and how it deeply affects someone that
55:27
Speaker 1: I don't know why we have created this narrative that
55:33
Speaker 1: like it's all going to be okay. Right, It's not
55:36
Speaker 1: all going to be okay. And I think if I
55:38
Speaker 1: had not intervened, I don't know if you would be
55:41
Speaker 1: this great person that you are now.
55:42
Speaker 3: I really don't think I would have been.
55:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, and will and I think the beautiful thing about
55:47
Speaker 2: this relationship and showing this to our audience is that
55:49
Speaker 2: it shows that even when there are circumstances outside of
55:54
Speaker 2: your control, right like the death of a parent or
55:58
Speaker 2: you know, something that your child might go through that's traumatizing,
56:01
Speaker 2: there's still hope.
56:02
Speaker 1: Yes, our brains are incredibly flexible, but we we can't
56:08
Speaker 1: just know that we need to change. We have to
56:11
Speaker 1: actually do the work at the level of the nervous
56:13
Speaker 1: system in order to change.
56:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know that one big goal of ours,
56:18
Speaker 2: well I should I say hours, but it's really it's
56:22
Speaker 2: really dark, you know, is you've you've wanted for a
56:25
Speaker 2: long time to do, you know, a course and a
56:27
Speaker 2: group on secure parenting, and it's something that a lot
56:30
Speaker 2: of your clients ask for.
56:32
Speaker 1: Yes, and so get on that.
56:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, just know that, guys, it's something that we are
56:36
Speaker 2: working on. We're working on so many things, so many
56:40
Speaker 2: exciting things, and you know, I just want to say
56:43
Speaker 2: again how proud I am I for you, Gabby too.
56:46
Speaker 2: Thank you so proud, And I'm grateful. I'm grateful that
56:50
Speaker 2: you came here today and talk to us. It's important.
56:53
Speaker 2: It's important for young people to hear from young people
56:58
Speaker 2: like you. It really really is. So don't let your
57:00
Speaker 2: voice be silent, don't be afraid to use it. And
57:05
Speaker 2: you know, maybe this will get you ready for you know,
57:09
Speaker 2: doctor Sarah Hensley two point zero.
57:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm about ready to retire.
57:15
Speaker 3: I have a couple more years.
57:17
Speaker 1: It's to take my spot, please, I'm just kidding.
57:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we got about ten more years. I got ten.
57:24
Speaker 1: I got ten years in me.
57:26
Speaker 2: I think, I don't know, girl, you have to you
57:28
Speaker 2: have to have ten years, ten years in me. I listen,
57:32
Speaker 2: I even got fifteen years in me.
57:33
Speaker 1: I don't have fifteen. Yeah, I'll give you ten. There
57:37
Speaker 1: we go, Yeah, there we go.
57:38
Speaker 2: It'll be good. We have so much fun, Gabby, we will,
57:41
Speaker 2: it'll be great. And by then I'll be seasoned, you know,
57:44
Speaker 2: I'll be like seasoned, me like leather. So well, I'll
57:49
Speaker 2: teach you the ropes here. So anyway, guys, thank you
57:52
Speaker 2: for tuning in. Please let your child listen to this episode. Yea,
57:56
Speaker 2: so please, you know, as long as they're old enough
57:58
Speaker 2: and you feel comfortable with that. Of course, we are
58:01
Speaker 2: officially launched with our new website, doctor Sarah Hensley dot com.
58:04
Speaker 2: Please go check that out. Please like, subscribe, follow, leave
58:08
Speaker 2: us a comment. Please only positive feedback for this podcast episode.
58:13
Speaker 2: We love each and every one of you, Yes, and
58:15
Speaker 2: until next time, peace, love and perspective