Latest / The Book Deal / Debut Picture Book Crew 2026 - journeys, excitement and advice from the other side of the book deal

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Debut Picture Book Crew 2026 - journeys, excitement and advice from the other side of the book deal · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina Strachan: This is the Book Deal podcast
• 0:11
  Madeleine Cleary: where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Natasha Rai: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals to bring you the best tips and advice on how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:25
  Tina Strachan: So no matter what stage of writing your at.
• 0:28
  Tina Strachan: We've got you covered.
• 0:29
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strachan.
• 0:30
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:32
  Natasha Rai: And I'm Natasha Rai.
• 0:34
  Tina Strachan: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors
• 0:37
  Madeleine Cleary: one deal at a time.
• 0:43
  Madeleine Cleary: The Book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: today I am very excited because we are stacked with amazing debut authors, and I am so very pleased to welcome Brenton Cullen, Seetha Dodd, and Jemima Parker
• 1:06
  Jemima Parker: Thank you
• 1:07
  Brenton Cullen: Yeah Welcome.
• 1:09
  Brenton Cullen: Thank you for having us.
• 1:10
  Tina Strachan: Gotta love a multi-author conversation-...'cause no one wants to talk over the other person or anything else.
• 1:16
  Tina Strachan: Every- everyone's so polite, but congratulations to you all on your debut year.
• 1:20
  Tina Strachan: How exciting.
• 1:22
  Tina Strachan: I mean, we only get one of them, right?
• 1:23
  Tina Strachan: So we got, gotta make the most of it, and it's pretty incredible.
• 1:26
  Tina Strachan: And especially to just to take that time and just really acknowledge it, and it'Cause it's such a, big achievement, and so congratulations to you.
• 1:35
  Tina Strachan: Um, you guys are smashing it this year with debut picture books, but not just, not just one book for many of you, and, you've got so many in the pipeline already.
• 1:46
  Tina Strachan: So I really wanna find out so much more,'cause clearly this has been a super successful few years for you.
• 1:51
  Tina Strachan: And also, I really wanna hear about your books and absolutely about your publication journey,'cause I love a good author journey story.
• 2:00
  Tina Strachan: So I wanted to just have a little chat about And Brenton, I think I'm gonna start with you,'cause Okay.
• 2:06
  Tina Strachan: So I really wanna know about, your year so far, and a little bit about your journey.
• 2:10
  Tina Strachan: Everything from the seed of an idea, all the way through to signing that elusive book deal.
• 2:15
  Tina Strachan: And then we might get also, a little bit later, into the nitty-gritty of, picture books, including the, the craft and the tips and tricks that you may have for our listeners, and also for seeking, publication, because we know that is the tricky part, right?
• 2:30
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 2:30
  Tina Strachan: So Brenton, I'm gonna start with you.
• 2:32
  Tina Strachan: Please tell us a little bit about you.
• 2:34
  Tina Strachan: Tell us what you write, and what you do with your life when you're not writing.
• 2:39
  Brenton Cullen: Well, uh, writing is sort of always been an identity for me, I guess.
• 2:46
  Brenton Cullen: Like, since I was a kid, it's really the only thing I wanted to do.
• 2:51
  Brenton Cullen: I always knew I wanted to be a writer, always dreamed of, like, being an author as a career, always loved writing stories.
• 2:57
  Brenton Cullen: So it's so hard to separate it from myself.
• 3:02
  Brenton Cullen: It just has always been there, like this goal that I was striving towards.
• 3:06
  Brenton Cullen: So since I was a kid, I was trying to be a writer and sending out submissions, uh, you know, in primary school and even into my teen years.
• 3:16
  Brenton Cullen: You know, I was, like, writing for my local newspaper and, uh, magazines and sending books to publishers and trying, trying to get published and just trying to become better as a writer.
• 3:28
  Brenton Cullen: And it might have seemed, I think, strange to sort of my peers and family at the time because I was still really young, but I just felt like I already knew what I wanted to do.
• 3:40
  Brenton Cullen: I didn't think I should have to wait till I grew up to start.
• 3:43
  Brenton Cullen: I was sort of, I'm set, you know, I'm hooked already on books, reading, writing, the whole world of books, you know, that's my thing.
• 3:50
  Brenton Cullen: Um, and so it took It was 20 years from when I was nine to when I was 29 when my first book was, uh, published, which was a middle grade novel called The Prime Minister Problem that came out at the beginning of this year.
• 4:06
  Brenton Cullen: And it- it's really funny how it happened because it was so many years, you know, as a kid, through my teens and into my 20s, uh, kept sort of honing the skill of writing and practicing and practicing and, uh, you know, I was constantly, like, looking up writer interviews on YouTube and on the internet and, like, feeding that inspiration from published authors and, and seeing everyone's success stories on social media and just sort of It felt like it was a club I just could not gain access to.
• 4:37
  Brenton Cullen: And, but one I thought, if I don't get into that club, that author club, there is literally nothing else in life I want to do.
• 4:45
  Brenton Cullen: So give I gave up and lost hope a lot of times, and even now I still do a lot, and I'm sure it'll keep happening in the future.
• 4:54
  Brenton Cullen: But I think the important thing is that I had to keep coming back to- why I was doing this, and it's because I love writing.
• 5:05
  Brenton Cullen: And I would get caught up in the chase of publication and that external validation, and then realize I'm like getting burnt out on just sending out submissions after submissions.
• 5:17
  Brenton Cullen: I sort of th- would sometimes lose the link to why I was doing it, because I love writing, I love telling stories, I love being in the middle of a story when it's really flowing.
• 5:27
  Brenton Cullen: Like, that's sort of when I'm at my happiest and most personally fulfilled, I guess.
• 5:33
  Brenton Cullen: And so getting my first book finally accepted, The Prime Minister Problem, was amazing.
• 5:38
  Brenton Cullen: And this year since then has just snowballed, because that was accepted.
• 5:45
  Brenton Cullen: The next week is when, uh, my picture book, Mina's Moving Day, um, was picked up by another publisher, and then I've had a few more contracts since then.
• 5:57
  Brenton Cullen: And It's been really surreal, and, uh, sort of scary and overwhelming, and not And I think you have, we have this picture of, oh, when I finally get a book published, life will be like this, and everything will change like this.
• 6:13
  Brenton Cullen: And even though you can say it to an aspiring author until you are blue in the face, you have to really experience it yourself until you fully get that.
• 6:23
  Brenton Cullen: 'Cause I would think,"Oh, they're just saying that." Like, what You know, they have the success already.
• 6:27
  Brenton Cullen: They've got a first book published, when I was still not published yet.
• 6:30
  Brenton Cullen: That's what I was thinking.
• 6:32
  Brenton Cullen: But then when you're on the other side of it, you do realize, wow, it's so true.
• 6:36
  Brenton Cullen: Like, the goalpost always keep moving.
• 6:39
  Brenton Cullen: You never feel like you've arrived there.
• 6:41
  Brenton Cullen: Mm.
• 6:41
  Brenton Cullen: There is no there.
• 6:42
  Brenton Cullen: And I've talked to a lot of writers who have had 50 books published, and 100 books published, and been publishing for, like, 30 or 40 years, and they all say the same thing every time.
• 6:52
  Brenton Cullen: It's like you're a new, emerging writer with every book.
• 6:54
  Brenton Cullen: Mm.
• 6:54
  Brenton Cullen: Like, and I That's sort of comforting in a way, in knowing that you don't get sort of, uh, laissez-faire about it and take it for granted in anything like that.
• 7:03
  Brenton Cullen: So, the, the idea of success, like our success stories and our success years, is really interesting,'cause people have said, you know,"Oh, you're having such a great year," and you know,"You're living the dream," and all this stuff.
• 7:14
  Brenton Cullen: But to, to be quite frank, my success, idea of success, is just that I got a book published.
• 7:22
  Brenton Cullen: Anything, literally anything else after that is just an extra bonus.
• 7:27
  Brenton Cullen: Mm.
• 7:27
  Brenton Cullen: If I only ever had the two books published that I have now, and nothing else ever came, like, I'd be sad about that, but I wouldn't feel like a failure, because I got my dream, which is to have a book published.
• 7:40
  Brenton Cullen: Mm-hmm.
• 7:40
  Brenton Cullen: And so everything after that, like my book was shortlisted for an award, and things like that, you I didn't even comprehend.
• 7:48
  Brenton Cullen: So, success to me is just that I achieve my goal, and whatever comes next, comes next.
• 7:56
  Brenton Cullen: Mm.
• 7:57
  Brenton Cullen: And I just feel really, really lucky.
• 7:59
  Brenton Cullen: Mm.
• 8:00
  Tina Strachan: And I'm sure it will keep happening for you, Brenton.
• 8:02
  Tina Strachan: And congratulations for all of that as well.
• 8:04
  Tina Strachan: And, um, I'm sure it will keep happening because you are in that place where you do, like you just said it all, like writing for yourself, and writing for the joy of it, and the love of it, and I think that definitely shows through.
• 8:19
  Tina Strachan: And there were so many important messages then that you just said about- Um, you know, that external validation and chasing publication Yeah And, and I think that can happen a lot, and it can really send aspiring authors in, down the wrong not the wrong path, but, like, a very, very long and windy and uphill path, um, to keep writing with just that end goal, I guess, of just- Yeah, exactly being published or external validation or winning a competition, and it's just always And we say it so many times on the podcast, and so many published authors have said it.
• 8:49
  Tina Strachan: And I, again, to what you said before, it's so easy to say it from this side when we've all got- Yeah contracts.
• 8:54
  Tina Strachan: But it's so true, and the reason why so many people and so many published authors say it is because it's so true.
• 9:00
  Tina Strachan: And so if you find yourself in that loop of just,"But if I just win this competition," or,"If I just can get published," um, and then if you don't get either of those things as well and just It's only human nature for something you want this so much with all your heart, and if you're not getting it, just really, feeling all those feelings of, rejection and not good enough and all that sort of thing.
• 9:19
  Tina Strachan: And it's just important to keep back- coming back to what you were saying before of just the joy of it because, we all sat here, as Seetha and Jemima were all nodding our heads when you were like, you know- Yeah when you just get into the flow, when you're just writing and literally nothing else.
• 9:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 9:33
  Tina Strachan: There's no other feeling like it.
• 9:35
  Tina Strachan: That what it's about.
• 9:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 9:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 9:35
  Tina Strachan: There's no other feeling like it, and to just do it for that.
• 9:37
  Tina Strachan: And, seek publication, enter awards on the side.
• 9:41
  Tina Strachan: It can definitely be a goal, but not the only one.
• 9:44
  Seetha Dodd: Yeah.
• 9:44
  Tina Strachan: Um, can I ask, Brenton, that's an incredible story.
• 9:47
  Tina Strachan: What do you think changed for you?
• 9:49
  Tina Strachan: Because you said that you were trying for a very long time to get in front of publishers, and now signed two contracts, sign- or two books out this year, more coming out over the next few years.
• 10:00
  Tina Strachan: What do you think was, you know, changed everything for you?
• 10:03
  Brenton Cullen: I think In a funny way, uh, it might not sound like it at first, but completely losing hope and seriously, like, giving up, that was sort of the real turning point.
• 10:16
  Brenton Cullen: So before I got the first contract, I had genuinely quit writing.
• 10:22
  Brenton Cullen: I hadn't written in, like, five months, which is very unusual.
• 10:25
  Brenton Cullen: I was going to go back to study and train as, like, in, uh, train in librarianship.
• 10:30
  Brenton Cullen: I had just had so many rejections, and then there was a period where I had five rejections come in in one day into my inbox, and so many different...
• 10:40
  Brenton Cullen: And it wasn't just one book I was trying, it was, like, heaps.
• 10:42
  Brenton Cullen: It was heaps of junior fic, heaps of middle grade, heaps of picture books.
• 10:47
  Brenton Cullen: I would rewrite, rewrite, rewrite, give to, like, critique friends, and try again, and they all said,"Oh, you know, it's do- you're doing really well," like, the story's really good.
• 10:56
  Brenton Cullen: But it meant nothing because the people who can make a difference, i.e.
• 11:00
  Brenton Cullen: publishing companies, still didn't seem to think that.
• 11:03
  Brenton Cullen: And I just had this moment of thought that, um, I'm, maybe this just isn't gonna happen for me, and I really...
• 11:12
  Brenton Cullen: And it was the f- and I'd give, sort of, lost hope a bit before, but I always got back to it, but this time was different.
• 11:18
  Brenton Cullen: I really thought, because I thought, I'm been doing this for so long I'm just, I haven't gotten anywhere.
• 11:27
  Brenton Cullen: I hadn't won any contests yet.
• 11:30
  Brenton Cullen: I hadn't, uh, you know, placed in any, uh, wasn't placed in any situation where I had sort of come close to acquisitions or anything like that.
• 11:41
  Brenton Cullen: You know, it was just still rejections or silence rejections.
• 11:45
  Brenton Cullen: And so I literally just gave up.
• 11:48
  Brenton Cullen: I was like,"I'm not gonna do it anymore." I actually remember putting, like, a dust cover over my computer.
• 11:52
  Brenton Cullen: Ooh.
• 11:52
  Brenton Cullen: I didn't even use it.
• 11:54
  Brenton Cullen: I didn't even use it for, like, months.
• 11:55
  Brenton Cullen: Seriously, I, I really didn't.
• 11:57
  Brenton Cullen: And then I had the manuscript of The Prime Minister Problem, my novel, come back from a friend who'd been critiquing it for, like, a few months, and they said that they liked it, and I sort of thought,"Oh, well, yeah, I've heard that before.
• 12:11
  Brenton Cullen: I'm not gonna bother to do anything with it." And they said,"There's this contest called the Pitchy Contest you should enter." And I hadn't, I didn't think I'd entered it before, and I, I did look at it, and I was actually looking at it on the day that it closed, that entries closed.
• 12:25
  Brenton Cullen: It was the final day.
• 12:27
  Brenton Cullen: And one part of me thought,"Oh, you know, you never know.
• 12:30
  Brenton Cullen: You've gotta try." But the other part just thought,"Uh, I, like, what's the point?
• 12:35
  Brenton Cullen: Nothing's gonna come of it.
• 12:36
  Brenton Cullen: I'm not getting anything.
• 12:37
  Brenton Cullen: I'm gonna start TAFE next year and study, and just maybe I'll just write on the side." But I just, something sort of said,"Oh, just why not?
• 12:44
  Brenton Cullen: You know, whatever." And then ended up winning that contest, which then led to the publisher.
• 12:51
  Brenton Cullen: Uh, the prize was just to get feedback.
• 12:53
  Brenton Cullen: That was the extent, and the, the best thing I thought- That is
• 12:56
  Tina Strachan: gold, right?
• 12:57
  Tina Strachan: Like, that is a prize that- Yeah you, money can't actually even buy.
• 12:59
  Brenton Cullen: Yeah.
• 12:59
  Brenton Cullen: Exactly, and I thought just getting in front of their eyes, like, that's the best thing I could hope for is maybe they'll give me some feedback and let me resubmit in, like, six months or something.
• 13:10
  Brenton Cullen: But when I got on the meeting call with Rowena from Riveted Press, the first thing she said was,"I want to publish your book."
• 13:19
  Tina Strachan: Wow.
• 13:19
  Brenton Cullen: And I just think- You, my mum always said that s- life and success does not go from a straight line from the bottom right to the top.
• 13:30
  Brenton Cullen: It squiggles, it stops in the middle, it goes backwards, it zooms up and down.
• 13:35
  Brenton Cullen: And I think I had to hit that sort of what was my rock bottom to realize, A] yes, I do really want this, and even with multiple rejections in one day, and years and years of getting nowhere, I just couldn't not do it.
• 13:52
  Brenton Cullen: And even if, uh, I had to wait another five years or 10 years or 20 years, it was after that moment that I thought,"I can't not keep trying." And I think that's the thing.
• 14:05
  Brenton Cullen: When I've done some school visits recently and talked to some adults at library talks, and that's probably the main thing I like to say, is that if you want to do anything, and not just getting a book published, but maybe just finishing a first draft for yourself.
• 14:18
  Brenton Cullen: If you give up, you definitely won't get what you want.
• 14:22
  Brenton Cullen: Like, like, you can guarantee it's not gonna happen for you.
• 14:24
  Brenton Cullen: But if you keep going, it might.
• 14:27
  Brenton Cullen: And you need to keep that hope because that is what fuels you.
• 14:31
  Brenton Cullen: And You never know what's going to come in the next email or what the next letter or the phone call's gonna be.
• 14:39
  Brenton Cullen: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 14:39
  Brenton Cullen: And so I think that's sort of the moment that led to that first book getting published, is sort of feeling like I was a total failure, and knowing that now it's published, I think it is possible, you know, and I, I could do it.
• 14:59
  Brenton Cullen: And now I look back and think, I can't believe I had given up and I was not gonna try.
• 15:04
  Brenton Cullen: Like, I, I can't even fathom that anymore.
• 15:07
  Brenton Cullen: So that's Yeah, that was the start of it for me.
• 15:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:10
  Tina Strachan: I love that story.
• 15:11
  Tina Strachan: It gave me goosebumps.
• 15:12
  Tina Strachan: Uh, I find it just happens like that, doesn't it?
• 15:14
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:14
  Tina Strachan: It's literally like you are down in the bottom and then the universe comes in and goes,"Pitch at competition.
• 15:19
  Tina Strachan: Come on.
• 15:19
  Tina Strachan: How much do you actually want it?" Exactly.
• 15:21
  Tina Strachan: "Are you gonna get yourself out of it?" And then you go,"All right." Yeah, yeah.
• 15:25
  Tina Strachan: I mean, I'm going back in for one more rejection- Yeah, that- even though I'm as low as I can
• 15:28
  Brenton Cullen: go that's the test.
• 15:28
  Brenton Cullen: Yeah.
• 15:29
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:29
  Tina Strachan: And you passed it, and so congratulations, Brenton.
• 15:32
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:32
  Tina Strachan: How exciting.
• 15:34
  Tina Strachan: Thank you.
• 15:34
  Tina Strachan: Oh, Jemima, can I move on to you now?
• 15:35
  Tina Strachan: Uh, tell us, tell us a bit about yourself.
• 15:37
  Tina Strachan: Tell us a bit about what you write and, um, what you do when you're not writing.
• 15:42
  Jemima Parker: Yes, certainly.
• 15:44
  Jemima Parker: Um, so I guess similar to Brenton, um, I loved books and reading as a child.
• 15:52
  Jemima Parker: Um, and I, I started reading before I even went to school, and I used to say to Mum, before I'd started school, I used to say,"I'm going to write a book.
• 16:02
  Jemima Parker: I'm gonna write a book, um, when I grow up." And Mum would say,"Oh, yeah?
• 16:06
  Jemima Parker: Okay, that's good." Um, and then I guess my life kind of took a bit of a winding path.
• 16:13
  Jemima Parker: I, I always loved writing at school.
• 16:15
  Jemima Parker: Um, but I sort of, you know, I Oh, I guess I just got a bit sidetracked, and I worked in an ice cream shop, and then after I finished school, I actually studied law, um,'cause I thought,"Oh, you know what?
• 16:29
  Jemima Parker: I'd love to do something creative, but I probably should have, like, a sensible career," you know?
• 16:36
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so I've kind of thought Well, you know, I thought doctor, vet, law.
• 16:42
  Jemima Parker: These were the things, you know, coming from a, uh, coming from a small town and thinking, what are the sensible options?
• 16:48
  Jemima Parker: I'm like, doctor, no, I can't abide with bodily functions.
• 16:53
  Jemima Parker: Vet, too sad.
• 16:55
  Jemima Parker: Law, I guess it's law.
• 16:57
  Jemima Parker: And so, um, so I started working in the law firm.
• 17:01
  Jemima Parker: Um, and you know, like I was, I was quite good at my job there.
• 17:06
  Jemima Parker: Um, but I, I realized, and I was studying by correspondence, but after a number of years I kind of realized, you know what?
• 17:14
  Jemima Parker: My heart is not in this.
• 17:16
  Jemima Parker: And so then I decided, then I decided to go away to art school.
• 17:22
  Jemima Parker: And so then I was studying, um...
• 17:24
  Jemima Parker: I've always loved, um, creative, creative work, so I've loved drawing and printmaking, um, and I, I love sewing.
• 17:33
  Jemima Parker: So I ended up studying textiles, which was absolutely amazing Um, and I was doing a lot of work, um, in the visual arts space and really enjoying that.
• 17:45
  Jemima Parker: Um, and I guess I s- I was...
• 17:46
  Jemima Parker: Then I was having, um...
• 17:48
  Jemima Parker: Then I was dealing with some health, um, issues that kind of made it more and more difficult to get into the screen printing studio where I was, you know, screen printing on fabric, really big, moving big screens around, and it was just getting a bit physically difficult.
• 18:05
  Jemima Parker: Um, I had, like, severe endometriosis, so it made just, you know, day-to-day things a little bit tricky.
• 18:15
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so then I guess it was a, it was a couple of things.
• 18:18
  Jemima Parker: It was that, and then my sister had, um...
• 18:22
  Jemima Parker: I'd, I'd, I'd got some nieces and my sister had kids, and so it was kind of a combination of not being as mobile and also starting to, um, share the joy of stories, um, with my nieces.
• 18:37
  Jemima Parker: And then I just began to remember how much I actually loved to write and, and those days when I was, when I was little and all I dreamed of was, was writing a, writing a book.
• 18:49
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so that led me to, um, the Australian Writers' Centre.
• 18:55
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so I signed up for their Writing Picture Books course, um, and that was just amazing.
• 19:00
  Jemima Parker: I felt like that course, it's very practical and, like, you know, for me it would, it would tell me things like,"Oh, a picture book has 32 pages," and I'd think,"What?
• 19:11
  Jemima Parker: It's got a nu- a set number of pages?
• 19:14
  Jemima Parker: I didn't know that." And then, so just those sort of structural things to help me, um,'cause I had a lot of story ideas and, you know, I'd been making up stories that back in, you know, kindy I remember I used to lay in bed early in the morning and, like, I'd roll down in bed as far as I could to look at all the animals on my sheets, and I used to make up little narratives about, like, what they were doing.
• 19:40
  Jemima Parker: And so I've always just been making up stories.
• 19:44
  Jemima Parker: And so doing the course and getting that kind of, those sort of structural, like, this is how you set it out and it's got this number of pages and it's probably not going to be more than 500 words, that was just kind of...
• 19:58
  Jemima Parker: That really unlocked things for me.
• 20:00
  Jemima Parker: And as well as, I guess, the, the tips in the course about connecting with the kid lit community.
• 20:06
  Jemima Parker: Um, you know, after that I joined SCBWI, the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, and, and it was there I first found out about the CYA conference as well.
• 20:17
  Jemima Parker: So I think for me the course- Just kind of opened up this door to the whole world of kid lit, and that is just a door that I've thrown myself in through wholeheartedly.
• 20:31
  Jemima Parker: And really, you know, I really feel like, and my mom says the same thing now, like I really feel like I'm now I'm doing the thing that I'm supposed to be doing Um, and I do work.
• 20:43
  Jemima Parker: Um, I, I've been working in communications, um, for a number of years, which, which I feel is, is a great fit for someone that loves to write, um, because I do get to write a lot in my, in my work.
• 20:58
  Jemima Parker: Um, and an- and another thing that I was doing a lot of at work that I think really helped, um, was, was working in a team where we did, um, a lot of writing together.
• 21:08
  Jemima Parker: So it was having someone edit my own work, or it might be me editing someone else's work.
• 21:15
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so that, that really helped.
• 21:19
  Jemima Parker: Um, and yeah, I think for me, just finding myself in this community with, with I guess the tools that I needed to be able to tell the stories I wanted to tell, it's just been, like, life-changing and amazing.
• 21:34
  Jemima Parker: Yeah.
• 21:35
  Tina Strachan: That's great.
• 21:36
  Tina Strachan: And it is such a big part, the kidlit community, and, um, I think if you're an aspiring author and you're not part of a community, um, you, you're probably not You don't understand how much it can actually help.
• 21:48
  Tina Strachan: Even if you're someone who just wants to crawl up in your room and just type away and not really poke your head outside, you know what?
• 21:54
  Tina Strachan: Most of us are like that.
• 21:55
  Tina Strachan: So we can all be like that together.
• 21:57
  Tina Strachan: Um, but it is so helpful to, uh, just have that support and just that understanding of what it's like out there.
• 22:04
  Tina Strachan: Um, and interestingly, by the time this episode goes to air, we'll have played our, um, episode with, uh, Kelly Daoust, who's was a publisher at a firm and is now with Publishing Curious.
• 22:16
  Tina Strachan: And I didn't realize this, but she said that publishers know when you're part of the kidlit community- Mm or the writing community.
• 22:25
  Tina Strachan: They are aware of it, and it's high- it's looked upon highly favorably.
• 22:30
  Tina Strachan: Um, you know, and they do take a lot of these things into consideration when they are looking at signing authors as well.
• 22:36
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, it just shows that, I guess, that you're dedicated and that you know what it's like, I guess, out there.
• 22:42
  Tina Strachan: So, uh, so that's another reason, if anything, to, to join a kidlit community.
• 22:47
  Tina Strachan: And, um, I love how you spoke about, you know, um, that first course that you ever did with Australian Writers' Centre, and there's many courses out there that you can do.
• 22:56
  Tina Strachan: Uh, you know, if Sometimes it's just that one step, you know?
• 23:00
  Tina Strachan: So for anyone who's listening who hasn't taken that one step yet and just is really, you know, keen for this, or even just curious, just take that one step maybe and just look for a little c- a little course and sign up for it, and it really can open your eyes to the, to the whole world, can't it?
• 23:15
  Jemima Parker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:17
  Tina Strachan: So tell us a little bit about, uh, your picture book that- Yeah uh, came out this year, and how, how did that H- how was it here?
• 23:24
  Tina Strachan: How did it get signed in the end?
• 23:25
  Tina Strachan: What happened?
• 23:26
  Jemima Parker: Yeah, okay.
• 23:26
  Jemima Parker: Um, so yeah.
• 23:28
  Jemima Parker: So my picture book, um, which came out in July this year, is Poppy Makes Pockets, um, published by EK Books and illustrated by Karen Erasmus.
• 23:38
  Jemima Parker: Um, and Poppy, so Poppy, I guess Poppy began as...
• 23:45
  Jemima Parker: It was a spark of an idea, and actually I remember making notes in my book.
• 23:51
  Jemima Parker: I find that whenever I attend a conference or a talk, I generally get a creative idea, and it'll be something unrelated to the topic.
• 24:02
  Jemima Parker: But I think there's just something, it's something that happens to my brain when I'm in this creative place, I'm surrounded by creative people.
• 24:11
  Jemima Parker: And I might be listening to just something, you know, it'll be something about writing, but then, you know, I'll get a story idea that pops into my head.
• 24:21
  Jemima Parker: This has happened numerous times, um, where I'll make notes in my notebook at the event, and then go home and turn it into a story.
• 24:29
  Jemima Parker: So Poppy I think Poppy became, be- began, it began with those scrawled notes.
• 24:36
  Jemima Parker: I think someone was talking about, you know, writing from the heart, um, and writing about things that you love, and so it, I, I, I literally just made a note, like all the things that I love.
• 24:48
  Jemima Parker: Um, and on the note was like textiles and sewing.
• 24:53
  Jemima Parker: Um, and then I'd written, you know, going on walks.
• 24:57
  Jemima Parker: Um, and then that made me think of going on walks with my little niece.
• 25:01
  Jemima Parker: Um, and then that made me think of her, you know, how she loved to collect treasures.
• 25:06
  Jemima Parker: You know, so little pebbles, um, a leaf, you know, whatever we might find, a button.
• 25:13
  Jemima Parker: Um, and then, you know, that, that jumped me to thinking, well, when we go on those walks, you know, she never has any pockets, and so we're always having to carry these treasures home.
• 25:25
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so I guess that story, I, I think, is a kind of...
• 25:29
  Jemima Parker: It brings together, um, I guess things that I love, sewing and textiles, um, and then I guess something that was happening in my family at the time, going for walks with my niece.
• 25:41
  Jemima Parker: And so kind of brought those ideas together, um, into the story of Poppy, who loves to collect treasures but never has any pockets.
• 25:51
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so the story's about how she creates her own pockets, and then creates them for her whole community.
• 25:59
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so I, I worked on the story, and I worked on it with my critique group.
• 26:05
  Jemima Parker: That was another amazing thing that I found, um, just incredible as, as, um, a really amazing and, I think, necessary piece, um, to, you know, to, to honing your writing, having a critique group.
• 26:21
  Jemima Parker: So that's having, having your peers, um, you know, that you, that you trust.
• 26:26
  Jemima Parker: You share each other's...
• 26:27
  Jemima Parker: You share stories and give feedback.
• 26:30
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so, you know, I took it through the critique group, and actually that story, um, I ended up entering it in, it was a CBCA Mentorship Prize Um, and so I entered it in that, in that prize.
• 26:46
  Jemima Parker: Um, and it actually came, it came, um, runner-up in that prize, so that was really amazing, and that made me feel like, oh, this story, you know, there might be something to this story.
• 26:59
  Jemima Parker: And I guess I just wanna share this next bit because I think it's, it shows you just to keep going.
• 27:05
  Jemima Parker: Um, at a similar time, I'd, I'd found out I'd been shortlisted in the mentorship prize, and I was all excited to travel to Sydney to the presentation.
• 27:15
  Jemima Parker: And then I had an assessment on my story.
• 27:18
  Jemima Parker: I'd booked an assessment, um, with a publisher and, and this assessment, this assessment did not go that well, actually, to be, to be frank.
• 27:27
  Jemima Parker: Like, I ended I left the assessment, um, actually in tears because it, it just, there was so much about the story that I guess just didn't resonate with this publisher.
• 27:38
  Jemima Parker: And, and I could have probably just thought, oh, this story, you know, maybe put it to the side.
• 27:45
  Jemima Parker: Um, but I kind of, I was like, well, on the one hand, this person did not like it, but on the other hand, you know, someone has shortlisted it in this prize, um, so, you know, I'll, I guess I'll keep going Um, and then to have it receive runner-up in the prize was really, you know, amazing.
• 28:06
  Jemima Parker: Um, and then, so then I just decided...
• 28:10
  Jemima Parker: I saw EK Books was open for submissions, um, and I saw their tagline, you know, it's stories with heart on issues that matter, and I thought,"That's Poppy." You know, Poppy's got heart, and everyone needs pockets.
• 28:24
  Jemima Parker: You know, we need pockets in girls' clothing.
• 28:27
  Jemima Parker: And so I thought,"This seems like a good fit." Um, and so I s- submitted it, and I'd submitted it, you know, to a number of other publishers that were open, and I'd...
• 28:36
  Jemima Parker: You know, lots of them I'd just heard nothing back.
• 28:40
  Jemima Parker: Um, and then, you know, a couple of months later, I got an email from Anushka, who worked at EK at the time.
• 28:47
  Jemima Parker: Um, and yeah, I opened it up, and she said,"I absolutely love this story, and if it's still available, you know, we'd like to publish it." And so I, I just, I screamed.
• 28:59
  Jemima Parker: Like, my dog, my dog was there.
• 29:01
  Jemima Parker: He, he, like, bit me with excitement'cause he just knew that something so exciting was happening.
• 29:07
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so yes, that, I think it was quite a rollercoaster.
• 29:12
  Jemima Parker: Um, but, you know, ultimately it, it was finding the right publisher.
• 29:18
  Jemima Parker: When I had a Zoom call with Anushka, she shared with me that, um, her daughter really loved to sew, and so I do think, you know, sometimes it's, it's, it's all about finding the right publisher at the right time for your story.
• 29:34
  Jemima Parker: And I think, you know, Poppy, the journey with Poppy has really taught me that, um, just to never give up on your story.
• 29:42
  Jemima Parker: Like, if you...
• 29:43
  Jemima Parker: And never give up, I guess, on your practice because even though your story, it's not going to be for everyone.
• 29:50
  Jemima Parker: Um, but it's about finding, it's finding the publisher that it is right for, and then I guess it, it'll be the same with readers.
• 29:58
  Jemima Parker: You know, it'll resonate with some but, but not all of them.
• 30:01
  Jemima Parker: So I think, um, yeah.
• 30:04
  Jemima Parker: And then I guess just- Fast-forwarding to receiving, you know, receiving the actual book in your hands, I think that there's, there's been nothing quite like that that I've experienced.
• 30:16
  Jemima Parker: It's a real, um, joy because to think that this story that began as a little scrawl in your notebook-
• 30:24
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm
• 30:24
  Jemima Parker: and now, you know, these other people have believed in it enough that they've put a whole team into creating an actual book, it's really is incredible.
• 30:34
  Jemima Parker: Um- Yeah yeah.
• 30:35
  Tina Strachan: Oh, congratulations.
• 30:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 30:37
  Tina Strachan: Thank
• 30:37
  Jemima Parker: you.
• 30:38
  Tina Strachan: It's a fantastic story.
• 30:39
  Tina Strachan: Again, another story of just persistence and, you know- Yeah writing for the joy of it.
• 30:43
  Tina Strachan: Um, I loved how you said you made this list of all the things that you know and you love, and, uh, because that's a really good tip too for, for people wanting to, you know, write stories that resonate or, um, you know, maybe they're searching for the right idea.
• 30:59
  Tina Strachan: And I actually did that recently just a couple of weeks ago,'cause I was just...
• 31:04
  Tina Strachan: I was sort of just wondering kind of where to go-
• 31:06
  Brenton Cullen: Mm
• 31:06
  Tina Strachan: next.
• 31:07
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, even though I've got a, always got a thousand things on the go.
• 31:11
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 31:11
  Tina Strachan: But I was still like, I think I, I think I knew there was sort of something there, and I was trying to work, work out what it was, and I did the same thing.
• 31:19
  Tina Strachan: I just wrote these n- I did some dot points of, well, what do I know?
• 31:23
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 31:23
  Tina Strachan: What's unique about me and what do I know?
• 31:24
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 31:24
  Tina Strachan: And from that I just, I literally went from dot points, maybe about two or three other ideas that I'd just seen there, uh, as ideas, and then the dot points turned into sentences that, that actually became a whole picture book.
• 31:38
  Seetha Dodd: Yeah.
• 31:38
  Tina Strachan: Just off like, you know, I just had these ideas and it just flowed into that, and it's a picture book that I've completed now and submitted and...
• 31:44
  Tina Strachan: You know, so, so that's a really good tip for, for anybody who's-
• 31:47
  Seetha Dodd: Mm-hmm
• 31:47
  Tina Strachan: you know, is just searching or just knows that there's something there because- Yeah truly the one, the stories that you write from your heart or from what you have experience with are always going to be the best kind, I think, aren't they?
• 31:58
  Jemima Parker: Yes.
• 31:59
  Jemima Parker: And I, I think that as well.
• 32:01
  Jemima Parker: I like to think that, you know, we hear about this voice and it seems so elusive, but to me, your voice is, your voice is those things.
• 32:10
  Jemima Parker: It's from your heart.
• 32:11
  Jemima Parker: And so I think that, yeah, y- if you start with those things that are really important, or like you say, unique about you- You know, it's, it's going to be, it's going to bring your voice out, I think
• 32:24
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:25
  Tina Strachan: No, that's a really good tip.
• 32:26
  Tina Strachan: And also, um, yeah, just remembering that one publisher's, one publisher's- Yeah opinion is one publisher's opinion.
• 32:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 32:34
  Tina Strachan: And I've spoken about it on, on the pod before as well, like I s- had three, um, assessments done once.
• 32:40
  Tina Strachan: I had two ask for more and one rip it to shreds.
• 32:43
  Jemima Parker: Yeah.
• 32:43
  Jemima Parker: So,
• 32:43
  Tina Strachan: you know.
• 32:44
  Tina Strachan: And one year when I won CYA, they were two different manuscripts, but I put one in and it won, and then the other one came like 340th or something like that.
• 32:52
  Jemima Parker: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:53
  Tina Strachan: So- Yeah you know, it's just, it's just, it's all, yeah, it's all fun and it's all practice as well, so- Yeah you have to get in there.
• 32:59
  Tina Strachan: But, oh, thank you, what an incredible story.
• 33:02
  Tina Strachan: Oh, Seetha- Yeah can we come to you now, and oh, can we find out about your long and winding journey as well?
• 33:09
  Seetha Dodd: Yes, sure.
• 33:10
  Seetha Dodd: Um, well, my very first published piece was actually for a newspaper in Malaysia where I grew up, and I was in primary school.
• 33:20
  Seetha Dodd: But I published it under a pseudonym because I thought that was a really cool and mysterious thing to do.
• 33:25
  Seetha Dodd: So I don't actually have proof that I wrote that piece, although I think my, um, my mom probably has a little newspaper clipping saved away somewhere, um, in a, in a little box.
• 33:36
  Seetha Dodd: But, um, yeah, I feel like I've I'm similar to Brenton as well.
• 33:40
  Seetha Dodd: I think I've been writing in some way ever since I was very young.
• 33:45
  Seetha Dodd: Um, I used to love just jotting down poems and, um, even writing little chapter books, handwritten, you know, stapled together.
• 33:53
  Seetha Dodd: Um, I wrote s- uh, stories for my school, school literary magazine, and I used to keep a diary, so I used to write endless, you know, really affected diary entries.
• 34:04
  Seetha Dodd: But it was all just part of that, um, that love of putting words down on paper, I think, uh, which I still really love.
• 34:12
  Seetha Dodd: Um, and with my writing journey here, I think I started out writing short fiction and freelance articles, and I never, even though, you know, my When my kids were young, I read lots of picture books to them, but I never thought about writing for children at that point.
• 34:28
  Seetha Dodd: And then it was in 2022 I did, um, the Australian Writers' Centre course, and I also attended the Kids and YA Festival in Sydney, and I think those two things really just lit this spark for me, and I just thought,"Oh, I, now I know I want to write for children." Um, and even now when I think about it, I think it Like, writing for children is such a privilege.
• 34:53
  Seetha Dodd: You know, we, we know that words have power, stories have power, and just the idea that we can create a book that a kid is gonna pick up and love and might get something from it, you know, whether it resonates with them on a certain level, if they see themselves in the book, or they understand a new perspective, I think all those things, um, are just really powerful.
• 35:16
  Seetha Dodd: So I think we're all in such a privileged position that, um, we get to, to, to do that and to tell stories.
• 35:24
  Seetha Dodd: Um, but for So I have My junior fiction came out first.
• 35:28
  Seetha Dodd: That was in April this year.
• 35:30
  Seetha Dodd: It's called Myra in the Middle, and that's with, um, UQP.
• 35:34
  Seetha Dodd: And, and my picture book with Elizabeth Stewart has just come out in September.
• 35:38
  Seetha Dodd: That's called Ginger and Fred.
• 35:39
  Seetha Dodd: It's really, really cute.
• 35:41
  Seetha Dodd: Um, and that's with Wild Dog Books.
• 35:44
  Seetha Dodd: So those two, um, were actually They, they came out of the same conference, so the same KidlitVic conference in 2024.
• 35:55
  Seetha Dodd: So that was, you know, like you said, Jemima, it is sometimes it's just about the right manuscript, the right publisher, the right time, and, and when we're lucky, all those things sort of fall into place and click.
• 36:08
  Seetha Dodd: Um, so I was very fortunate in, at that event to be picked up, um, for, for two contracts, so that was incredible.
• 36:18
  Seetha Dodd: Um, and I have another picture book coming out next year, and that is with Larrikin House, and that was through the Larrikin Prize.
• 36:26
  Seetha Dodd: So again, just opportunities that, you know, like you said, Brent- Brenton, you enter a competition or you, you do something, and even if it's, you know, you're not sure, it's at the last minute, like I enter so many things at the last minute.
• 36:39
  Seetha Dodd: Um, but you know, sometimes i- even if you, even if you don't win, um, you always get something out of that because it's even just writing to a deadline, I think is really helpful for us.
• 36:52
  Seetha Dodd: But also just the opportunity to put something down and go,"All right, is this, you know, can I shape this in a way for this competition, or can I tailor this for a particular publisher?"
• 37:03
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 37:03
  Seetha Dodd: Um, I think that's all really useful learning.
• 37:06
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 37:07
  Seetha Dodd: So I think that's been really helpful.
• 37:09
  Seetha Dodd: Um-
• 37:11
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I think what you said about, um, and, and we all have that same story, you know, attending conferences, uh, you know, submitting things online, attending community groups or writing groups.
• 37:21
  Tina Strachan: Um, it's seeing it in real life as well, isn't it?
• 37:25
  Tina Strachan: And seeing Because sometimes we just make this thing in our head of, and we just hold it up to this, you know, such high esteem, which it is.
• 37:32
  Tina Strachan: But when you go and you go to these writing events, and you mingle with the other authors, who are actually just real people, you know?
• 37:41
  Tina Strachan: Um, and you mingle with them, and you see what they're doing, and you realize that they were all just normal people that came from normal backgrounds that just love to write.
• 37:49
  Tina Strachan: It's c- it's real.
• 37:50
  Tina Strachan: It's a real thing, and, and so you too can, can do that, and I think that's also what helps spark and ignite that sort of passion inside of you to, to really do it because you've You can see that it can happen.
• 38:02
  Seetha Dodd: Yeah.
• 38:03
  Seetha Dodd: Uh, it does, and, you know, I've been to two Kidlitvic conferences since then, and I haven't had something picked up in those.
• 38:10
  Seetha Dodd: But I think that as still incredible opportunities for learning, for understanding, for building relationships, um, you know, hearing from the panelists, and I think you just get so much out of it.
• 38:25
  Seetha Dodd: Um, yeah, I, I have found them just wonderful just to be in the space with other creatives who think like you.
• 38:33
  Seetha Dodd: And, you know, some of us, or most of us, have day jobs as well, so just to be able to take yourself out of that world and into this creative bubble, it is just fantastic.
• 38:45
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:46
  Tina Strachan: And just the networking and the people that you meet, and even if, if you do book assessments with publishers, I think, um, as scary as it is at first, it kind of breaks down that wall a little bit when you do talk to them and they talk to you, and they are also just real people.
• 39:00
  Tina Strachan: Um, you know, and most of them are extremely friendly.
• 39:03
  Tina Strachan: And, um, yeah, it just I think it sort of just cr- makes it feel a little bit more It normalizes it a little bit, doesn't it?
• 39:11
  Tina Strachan: It just gets- It
• 39:12
  Seetha Dodd: does
• 39:12
  Tina Strachan: the scariness away a little bit, even though it's still scary talking to publishers, I think.
• 39:15
  Seetha Dodd: Yeah, it does.
• 39:17
  Seetha Dodd: And I, and I think, you know, also in saying that, you can also get that vibe and that feeling by- Doing things like attending book launches, um, going to CBCA events.
• 39:28
  Seetha Dodd: You know, it doesn't have to be a big conference which, you know, is, is quite a big undertaking.
• 39:33
  Seetha Dodd: So there are lots of other avenues as well to, to be in that space with other people.
• 39:38
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:39
  Tina Strachan: Book launches are a great one, especially if they're at, you know, bookstores as well, and then getting to know the, the, uh, bookstore owners, and, uh, there's usually always other authors there as well.
• 39:49
  Tina Strachan: So yeah, that's a really- Yeah good one.
• 39:51
  Tina Strachan: Uh, and also, Siha, we can't ignore the fact that you were just shortlisted in the Queensland, Literary Award.
• 39:57
  Tina Strachan: Congratulations.
• 39:58
  Tina Strachan: How incredible.
• 39:59
  Tina Strachan: What an experience.
• 40:00
  Tina Strachan: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 40:01
  Tina Strachan: Thank
• 40:01
  Seetha Dodd: you.
• 40:01
  Seetha Dodd: Oh, it still feels really, um, very surreal to be on that shortlist with, you know, all, all th- those other authors that I admire so deeply.
• 40:12
  Seetha Dodd: Um, it was incredible, and I actually made it to Brisbane, um, for the, the ceremony.
• 40:18
  Seetha Dodd: Um, so yeah, that was fantastic and, you know, uh, ob- obviously a testament to my wonderful publisher, UQP, and the illustrator, Peter Chong, as well.
• 40:28
  Seetha Dodd: They've, you know, just brought the story to life, um, made it possible.
• 40:33
  Seetha Dodd: It's, it really has been a dream come true.
• 40:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 40:36
  Tina Strachan: So that was for Myra in the Middle, which is your- Yes middle grade.
• 40:38
  Tina Strachan: It was for the
• 40:39
  Seetha Dodd: junior fiction,
• 40:39
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 40:39
  Tina Strachan: Junior fiction, yes.
• 40:40
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 40:40
  Tina Strachan: Oh, congratulations.
• 40:42
  Tina Strachan: Um- Thank you so much but an incredible story that you gave them to work with.
• 40:46
  Tina Strachan: Oh, well done.
• 40:47
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, that's the dream.
• 40:49
  Tina Strachan: Congratulations.
• 40:50
  Tina Strachan: Uh, okay, so thank you for those incredible stories.
• 40:53
  Tina Strachan: Now I have a few questions, and I'm just gonna do a little bit of a round table.
• 40:56
  Tina Strachan: I'm gonna, um, shoot it off to, um, whoever I wanna pick on first.
• 41:00
  Tina Strachan: Brenton.
• 41:02
  Tina Strachan: Brenton, tell us, what do you find the most joyful thing about writing picture books, and what do you find the most trickiest?
• 41:10
  Brenton Cullen: I think the trickiest is getting it exactly right because it's so short, uh, because you have to do so much with so little.
• 41:22
  Brenton Cullen: You know, it has to have the perfect rhythm to the text, and that's whether it's rhyming or prose, it still needs that perfect rhythm.
• 41:29
  Brenton Cullen: You need to leave room for the illustrator, but also still your text has to be clear and able to tell what's happening in the story if someone just reads it.
• 41:39
  Brenton Cullen: Um, I think also getting it right, because I have written picture books that have gone through, like, 30 drafts, 40 drafts, 50 drafts.
• 41:46
  Brenton Cullen: Like, they're so difficult.
• 41:48
  Brenton Cullen: And in the case of my new picture book, Mina's Moving Day, it actually began as a short story of about 4,000 words, and just whittled down, whittled down, whittled down over three years to about, I think it's about 340 words now.
• 42:02
  Brenton Cullen: So it's such ha- It...
• 42:05
  Brenton Cullen: That's why people think it's easy to do a picture book, but it's actually so difficult to get it right, and I've actually cried in frustration when I've been drafting picture books because you just think,"Oh, my goodness, I just cannot get this.
• 42:18
  Brenton Cullen: It's so difficult." It's easier to just write a 50,000-word novel where you can sort of blather on with as many words as you want.
• 42:25
  Brenton Cullen: Mm-hmm.
• 42:25
  Brenton Cullen: Um, but the most joyful thing I think is during the actual writing process itself is when you get the idea and you're just sort of in that flow.
• 42:35
  Brenton Cullen: And for me, I, I usually tend to, once I have the idea and write a first draft, it all sort of pours out, and it's that moment when you're right in the middle of it- And it becomes something.
• 42:49
  Brenton Cullen: Like, like, you know, like Jemima was saying, like, it starts with, like, sort of, uh And like you were saying as well, you know, dot points, and then it turns into a story, like, sort of almost by itself.
• 42:59
  Brenton Cullen: It's such a sort of magical process in a way.
• 43:02
  Brenton Cullen: So I think I love that, just seeing, shaping it from nothing into text on a page.
• 43:09
  Brenton Cullen: Mm.
• 43:09
  Brenton Cullen: Um, about the publication process itself, I just have to mention the illustrator Jennifer Horne, who is the amazing illustrator of Mina's Moving Day.
• 43:18
  Brenton Cullen: Seeing your words brought to life is such a surreal and cool thing.
• 43:22
  Brenton Cullen: So in the picture book publication process, I think that's been my favorite thing, is seeing Jennifer's interpretation of the text and her enhancement of the text.
• 43:32
  Brenton Cullen: For example, in the s- in the story itself, um, it's about a girl who wants her own room, and she wants to move out of the shared room with her little sister and have her own space, which I think is such a universal theme.
• 43:46
  Brenton Cullen: And so I was really excited to sort of write something that I think can connect with many people.
• 43:51
  Brenton Cullen: But Jennifer just added so much to it via the illustrations.
• 43:55
  Brenton Cullen: The end papers begin with a cat in a moving box, and then we sort of follow the cat through the story.
• 44:01
  Brenton Cullen: The cat leaves, like, muddy footprints through the pages, and it's, like, curled up in spots.
• 44:06
  Brenton Cullen: There is no cat in my text, and I just love how she's added all these details and things.
• 44:11
  Brenton Cullen: So seeing the physical book itself, and seeing the pages and seeing her work, it's crazy to think this started with me scribbling a 4,000 word short story, and now two people have joined together to make a book, a picture book.
• 44:25
  Brenton Cullen: So that end product, as well as the process to get there, I think is just such the most joyful part altogether.
• 44:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 44:34
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that's incredible.
• 44:35
  Tina Strachan: Uh, I love when there is, um, that little through line in the picture books.
• 44:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 44:39
  Tina Strachan: The kids love it too, you know?
• 44:40
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:41
  Tina Strachan: And it, it make, it makes them kind of go back and go, once they realize,"Oh, hang on.
• 44:44
  Tina Strachan: But that little animal-" Yeah"or whatever it is has been in there for the whole thing," and then they- Yeah they wanna go back and find it again, and- Yeah yeah, thank goodness for illustrators,'cause- Yeah they're doing an amazing job.
• 44:54
  Tina Strachan: Oh, um, Jemima, can you tell us, uh, about the publication process, uh, what do you wish that you knew earlier?
• 45:05
  Jemima Parker: Ooh, that's a good question.
• 45:09
  Jemima Parker: Mm-hmm.
• 45:09
  Jemima Parker: I think, oh, I think just how long everything takes.
• 45:13
  Jemima Parker: Um, so whether that's, you know, how long it might take, you know, for your submission to be considered by someone, or how long it might take, you know, actually from, from when the publisher says,"Yes, we'd love to publish your book," how long that process is.
• 45:34
  Jemima Parker: Um, and just, you know, lengths of time waiting to hear back from someone.
• 45:40
  Jemima Parker: I think it's, that's been a real, like, a lesson in patience, I suppose, and, you know, and, and kind of getting comfortable with those long waits and, and working out how to kind of set that thing that you're really just thinking about and wanting to know about to the side, and being able to just focus on a different project during that time.
• 46:07
  Jemima Parker: I think probably that's just something I wish I maybe understood a bit more from the outset, that, that things, things in publishing can move really, really slowly.
• 46:17
  Jemima Parker: And then, but then there's certain times where it flips, and it's like something might happen so fast that you're kind of like,"Wait, what?" Um, so I think, yeah, just kind of understanding time in publishing.
• 46:30
  Jemima Parker: I feel like it's a whole different, um, you know, time zone going on there.
• 46:36
  Jemima Parker: Yeah.
• 46:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:37
  Tina Strachan: The wait time is a thing.
• 46:38
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 46:39
  Tina Strachan: And the Excuse me.
• 46:40
  Tina Strachan: The responses is a thing too.
• 46:42
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:42
  Tina Strachan: Like, I didn't realize, and just hearing stories from others, that even, you know, if they were getting an email from a publisher that's like,"This is fantastic, this is wonderful, I really want it," and then, um, but actually getting no response ever again.
• 46:57
  Brenton Cullen: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:58
  Tina Strachan: Like, I thought, hang on- Yes
• 47:00
  Jemima Parker: but you said
• 47:00
  Tina Strachan: you really liked their book.
• 47:01
  Tina Strachan: How can you not Yeah And, and you know, for whatever reason, and all publishers are different.
• 47:05
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 47:05
  Tina Strachan: Certainly some-
• 47:06
  Jemima Parker: That's right
• 47:07
  Tina Strachan: would not say that without getting back to people, but that is a thing.
• 47:09
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 47:09
  Tina Strachan: That's an expected thing, and, um, yeah, I, yeah, that's I think that's why I was always like, until I sign on that dotted line, I'm not gonna believe it.
• 47:17
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:17
  Tina Strachan: They can take it from me at any point in time.
• 47:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:20
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:20
  Tina Strachan: Oh.
• 47:21
  Brenton Cullen: I can't believe it till I'm actually holding the book.
• 47:23
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:24
  Brenton Cullen: Even Because even after it's all, like, almost done, I think, what if they suddenly decide it's awful?
• 47:30
  Brenton Cullen: Yeah.
• 47:30
  Brenton Cullen: So it's Yeah.
• 47:32
  Tina Strachan: Which they're not gonna do, right?
• 47:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:33
  Tina Strachan: But this is just what we hear.
• 47:34
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 47:34
  Brenton Cullen: yeah.
• 47:34
  Brenton Cullen: Like that fear voice in your head.
• 47:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:36
  Tina Strachan: We want it so bad.
• 47:36
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:37
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:38
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 47:38
  Tina Strachan: Oh, so the Can you tell me, um, we just touched on it before, uh, you know, every publisher is different.
• 47:45
  Tina Strachan: They all want different things.
• 47:46
  Tina Strachan: So do you have any advice for anybody about how can we Where do we know who to submit to?
• 47:53
  Tina Strachan: Is there any way of finding out or which publisher could be right for your book?
• 47:58
  Seetha Dodd: I think you need to, uh, read a lot of picture books obviously to get a feel for the type of book that publishers might be looking for.
• 48:08
  Seetha Dodd: Um, you know, you'd know that a, maybe a funny rhyming one would be more suited to s- certain particular publishers.
• 48:15
  Seetha Dodd: Um, the sort of softer, more lyrical style might be for another publisher.
• 48:20
  Seetha Dodd: So I think reading a lot of those books will help you get that understanding.
• 48:24
  Seetha Dodd: Um, but then in saying that, sometimes things can surprise you.
• 48:29
  Seetha Dodd: So for example, with Ginger and Fred, um, I never thought that Wild Dog Books would pick up a rhyming story about a cat and a dog who go ballroom dancing.
• 48:38
  Seetha Dodd: But it, you know, it, it resonated.
• 48:42
  Seetha Dodd: It sparked something in, um, in, f- for Mary Ann and Donna, and they picked it up.
• 48:48
  Seetha Dodd: So i- never say never.
• 48:51
  Seetha Dodd: Mm.
• 48:51
  Seetha Dodd: Uh, so I think, yeah, a piece of advice would be don't write off a publisher because you think they wouldn't like your story, as long as it's not too far off, um, you know, what you've heard them say they're looking for, if you've listened to, to them speak on podcasts, um, or i- you know, um, conferences, et cetera.
• 49:08
  Seetha Dodd: Um, so be brave, and, you know, d- try and do something different.
• 49:12
  Seetha Dodd: I think because the market is so saturated, because there's so many, um, of us trying to get picture books out there, uh, we do have to do something a little bit unique, I think.
• 49:24
  Seetha Dodd: And there aren't many new story ideas.
• 49:28
  Seetha Dodd: Y- I think there's a saying that every, th- there are only so many, um, story types, but what you need to do is find a unique angle.
• 49:36
  Seetha Dodd: So I think that is, um, something that I would say to anyone.
• 49:40
  Seetha Dodd: Like, take a look at your story, even think about the perspective.
• 49:45
  Seetha Dodd: Can you flip that?
• 49:46
  Seetha Dodd: Or think about your main character, um, think about their, their journey, their friends.
• 49:51
  Seetha Dodd: You know, if you, if you...
• 49:52
  Seetha Dodd: For example, if you're writing a story about adapting to change, there, there are lots of books with that theme, but what is your angle and how can you approach it?
• 50:00
  Seetha Dodd: And I think that's how you can, um, catch the eye of a publisher with s- with a, a unique, um, approach.
• 50:08
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 50:09
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, that's
• 50:09
  Seetha Dodd: a very
• 50:09
  Tina Strachan: good point.
• 50:10
  Tina Strachan: And
• 50:10
  Seetha Dodd: then...
• 50:10
  Seetha Dodd: Yeah.
• 50:11
  Seetha Dodd: And then I think also to work on your craft, like Brenton was saying.
• 50:14
  Seetha Dodd: It's, you're, you're deliberating over every word for a picture book, you know?
• 50:18
  Seetha Dodd: It's, it's really short.
• 50:20
  Seetha Dodd: Um, so make sure that every word counts.
• 50:24
  Seetha Dodd: When you read it aloud, it, it does need to sound beautiful, because picture books are usually read aloud.
• 50:31
  Seetha Dodd: Um, and think about the audience and, you know, what sort of message or, or feeling that you, you want them to get out of that book.
• 50:37
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 50:38
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 50:39
  Tina Strachan: That's incredible advice.
• 50:40
  Tina Strachan: And, um, things are always, things are changing at the moment in the publishing industry, and a lot of publishing houses are, you know, being bought and, and are merging, and et cetera, et cetera.
• 50:49
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 50:49
  Tina Strachan: So it's likely that maybe they're change, their, their, um, their wants and, uh, what they, uh...
• 50:56
  Tina Strachan: Sorry, f- completely forgot the word.
• 50:59
  Tina Strachan: What they're looking for at the moment- Yes uh, has, and their lists are changing.
• 51:03
  Tina Strachan: And, um- So you can also go onto, a lot of the time, you can also look at the actual publisher that you wanna submit to, and you can see they often have like a...
• 51:12
  Tina Strachan: It'll be on their website or, um, even on their socials.
• 51:15
  Tina Strachan: You can find them.
• 51:16
  Tina Strachan: Some are more active than others.
• 51:17
  Tina Strachan: But if you...
• 51:18
  Tina Strachan: They'll usually put in their bios what they're looking for.
• 51:21
  Tina Strachan: So certainly, um, don't blanket send out your, um, picture book to e- everybody.
• 51:27
  Tina Strachan: Like, you can, you can definitely hone it, absolutely.
• 51:30
  Tina Strachan: And, um, yeah, so make sure if you've got a thriller, don't send it to someone who's only ever historically or says that they want something that's, um, you know-
• 51:38
  Seetha Dodd: Yeah
• 51:38
  Tina Strachan: roma- romantic or something like that if you're, if you're writing, um- That's right adult fiction.
• 51:42
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 51:43
  Seetha Dodd: And also, I think if you're on social media, there are lots of ways you can, um, get some insights into what a publisher is looking for.
• 51:50
  Seetha Dodd: So for example, even if you're not attending a conference, go onto the social media page, have a look at, you know, the profiles and the bios of the publishers who are attending,'cause a lot of the time they do share what they're looking for.
• 52:03
  Seetha Dodd: Um, and then you might get a, a sense of, okay, well, this publisher is not actually open to picture books at this time.
• 52:09
  Seetha Dodd: Mm-hmm.
• 52:09
  Seetha Dodd: Um, but this one is, and they're looking for more, you know, nonfiction or, or whatever that might be.
• 52:14
  Seetha Dodd: And I think that gives you, um, a good, uh, little insight even if you, if you're not actually going to those conferences.
• 52:21
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 52:23
  Tina Strachan: Um, you've all given some really incredible, uh, advice so far, but do you have one top tip, if you could just give one tip to aspiring authors.
• 52:31
  Tina Strachan: Brindsa, can we start with you?
• 52:32
  Tina Strachan: What would your one top tip be?
• 52:35
  Brenton Cullen: If it's for a publication wise tip, I'd say sort of just rehashing what I've said is to, um, boil it...
• 52:46
  Brenton Cullen: It boils down to never give up.
• 52:48
  Brenton Cullen: Like, just keep going, believe in yourself, believe in your friends in the kid lit writing community, and, like, take that support on board.
• 52:56
  Brenton Cullen: Um, so many people won't have faith in you, so many people won't give you the chance, so you need to really start by backing yourself first, uh, no matter what.
• 53:06
  Brenton Cullen: Uh, writing wise, I'd say keep honing your craft and never send a story out too early.
• 53:13
  Brenton Cullen: Always redraft and revise and rewrite, reconsider.
• 53:17
  Brenton Cullen: Uh, I always put something away for, like, a few months at a time and come back to it.
• 53:21
  Brenton Cullen: I've recently just finished a book, and I did five drafts of it, and then on draft number six, I changed it from third person to first person, and it finally started working.
• 53:32
  Brenton Cullen: So give yourself time.
• 53:35
  Brenton Cullen: There r- there really is no rush, and your story will be the better for it if you let itself...
• 53:42
  Brenton Cullen: let yourself just give yourself the best chance with it without feeling the pressure to,"Oh, I've gotta send it out right now."
• 53:50
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 53:51
  Tina Strachan: Yep.
• 53:52
  Tina Strachan: Awesome advice.
• 53:53
  Tina Strachan: How about you, Jemima?
• 53:54
  Tina Strachan: What, what's your top tip?
• 53:56
  Jemima Parker: Um, so I completely agree with those two tips of Brenton's, both amazing.
• 54:01
  Jemima Parker: Um, I guess my tip is to find your community.
• 54:06
  Jemima Parker: I think having a community within the kid lit community for yourself is really important.
• 54:13
  Jemima Parker: Um, and I think that a lot of us authors, you know, m- well, I'm, I'm certainly an introvert, um, and so it can be challenging, you know, to go along to events or, you know, to put yourself out there to find that community.
• 54:28
  Jemima Parker: Um, but it is totally worth it.
• 54:30
  Jemima Parker: Um, and I guess the way that you might be able to do it if you find it, um, you know, the thought of it is just, is really scary, um, you can, you can maybe, um, think about, like, I did some volunteering in the kid lit community, um, and that, that really helped me find my place.
• 54:49
  Jemima Parker: Um, so sometimes, you know, if you're s- if you're afraid to go along to an event or something, maybe have a look at if there's opportunities to volunteer because for me, like, having, having a role to play at somewhere makes me kind of feel a bit more comfortable there.
• 55:07
  Jemima Parker: So, um, yeah, have a look for volunteering opportunities if that's something you might be interested in, but, but mainly find your community in the way that works for you.
• 55:18
  Jemima Parker: Yeah.
• 55:18
  Tina Strachan: Yep.
• 55:19
  Tina Strachan: Great advice.
• 55:20
  Tina Strachan: And, Siva, what's your top tip?
• 55:22
  Seetha Dodd: It's hard to just pick one, but, um, I think I might give you a few.
• 55:28
  Seetha Dodd: So don't wait for the ideas or the words to be perfect, just write them down anyway.
• 55:32
  Seetha Dodd: You can always edit later.
• 55:33
  Seetha Dodd: I think sometimes we're so scared to start because we think we need it to be perfect from the very first line, and it's an iterative process, so you have to just, just put the words down and then make them perfect later.
• 55:46
  Seetha Dodd: Um, I think it's also important to know that rejections are stepping stones.
• 55:53
  Seetha Dodd: Um, I think none of us would've got our first contract out of the first submission that we sent, so it's really important to, to think of it as a learning experience and to try and draw from, you know, I'm putting my work out there, that that is the first step.
• 56:07
  Seetha Dodd: Um, and then keep going and you will get there.
• 56:10
  Seetha Dodd: Like Brenton said, that persistence and resilience is so important.
• 56:13
  Seetha Dodd: And then just finally, I think it's really important to celebrate the wins, whether they're yours or others, and just however small they are, just celebrate them because this is a, a tough industry, and we all need to support each other.
• 56:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, absolutely.
• 56:28
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 56:29
  Tina Strachan: Brenton, what is next for you?
• 56:31
  Tina Strachan: I know you've got a few things coming up.
• 56:33
  Brenton Cullen: Uh, so with Moon Is Moving Day out, um, we're having a book launch next weekend at Where the Wild Things Are on Saturday the 24th, and then I've got a few promo events for that.
• 56:46
  Brenton Cullen: But then otherwise, um, I've got a middle grade novel coming out next May called The Secret of Panther Valley, and it's with Eagle Books, and it's a, a middle grade suspense adventure action book set in the Australian bush.
• 57:01
  Brenton Cullen: Um, I've got a picture book coming out later next year with Scholastic.
• 57:05
  Brenton Cullen: Um, and then I've got another book out in 2028, which is a historical novella.
• 57:10
  Brenton Cullen: Um, and then a- apart from that, I've just got lots of things I'm working on.
• 57:15
  Brenton Cullen: I've just sent my agent an adult novel, which is the first adult novel I've written, a verse novel.
• 57:20
  Brenton Cullen: Um, I just had an idea last week for a new picture book, so I've been sort of slowly drafting that.
• 57:25
  Brenton Cullen: So sort of, you know, lots of pots on the, on the burner boiling and just seeing what'll, what'll come up next.
• 57:31
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 57:32
  Tina Strachan: That sounds perfect.
• 57:34
  Tina Strachan: Jemima, how about you?
• 57:35
  Tina Strachan: What's next for you?
• 57:36
  Jemima Parker: Um, so I'm excited to I've got a second pic- picture book, um, coming out with EK in March next year.
• 57:45
  Jemima Parker: Um, and then I've got two more picture books on the way.
• 57:49
  Jemima Parker: They're coming with Scholastic.
• 57:51
  Jemima Parker: I'm not quite sure of the timeframe.
• 57:53
  Jemima Parker: Um, but that's really exciting.
• 57:55
  Jemima Parker: Um, and writing wise, I have been working on, um, for the last kind of a year and a half, a young adult novel.
• 58:03
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so I'm really excited about that.
• 58:06
  Jemima Parker: Um, I've just, I've just, uh, just last night actually, I sat down with, um, a f- a young person that I gave the book to, to read to get their thoughts, and so that, that was a really special moment.
• 58:25
  Jemima Parker: Mm.
• 58:25
  Jemima Parker: Um, and so yeah, I'm hoping to be looking for publication opportunities for my novel, um, and just lots more writing.
• 58:34
  Jemima Parker: I've got ideas for another YA novel, possibly an adult novel, and more picture books, so just, you know, just loving the process.
• 58:45
  Jemima Parker: Um, just gotta find the time to get those words on the page.
• 58:50
  Tina Strachan: Love that.
• 58:51
  Tina Strachan: Everyone's feeling so creative.
• 58:53
  Tina Strachan: I can feel it.
• 58:53
  Tina Strachan: Uh, Seetha, what's next for you?
• 58:56
  Seetha Dodd: So I have the, um, my second picture book, um, out in February.
• 59:00
  Seetha Dodd: That's with Larrikin House.
• 59:01
  Seetha Dodd: It's another fun rhyming story with themes of identity and belonging, um, which I, I love translating into stories that kids can engage with.
• 59:12
  Seetha Dodd: Um, and then I'm working on some other ideas for more junior fiction.
• 59:16
  Seetha Dodd: I'd love to write more junior fiction.
• 59:19
  Seetha Dodd: Um, and then I have lots of other picture book manuscripts.
• 59:22
  Seetha Dodd: Some are out on submission, um, some still need some tweaking and, you know, rhyme perfecting, but I have written my first one in prose that's out in on submission, so I'm- Hopeful, and my fingers are crossed for that one, so
• 59:36
  Tina Strachan: Yes, fingers crossed for everyone.
• 59:38
  Tina Strachan: But see, the one thing, um, I was actually gonna bring it up earlier in the c- conversation, but completely forgot about it because, um, uh, your book that's coming out next year though, uh, with Larrikin's House, that has an interesting story as to how it was picked up though, wasn't it?
• 59:53
  Seetha Dodd: Yeah, that was the Larrikin Prize.
• 59:54
  Tina Strachan: Ah,
• 59:55
  Seetha Dodd: uh-huh.
• 59:55
  Seetha Dodd: So, um, the Larrikin House started the prize last year, um, and they've, they've just run it again this year.
• 1:00:02
  Seetha Dodd: I think shortlists, uh, have been announced already.
• 1:00:06
  Seetha Dodd: But, um, yeah, so it was a competition for Um, they have a theme each year.
• 1:00:11
  Seetha Dodd: Uh, the theme last year was fun, fearless, and feminist, and that's the one, um, that my story about a pterodactyl who doesn't want her friends changing her name, um, was picked up.
• 1:00:23
  Tina Strachan: And your offer of publication was quite unusual, wasn't it?
• 1:00:26
  Seetha Dodd: It was.
• 1:00:26
  Seetha Dodd: Tina?
• 1:00:28
  Tina Strachan: Can you tell us about that?
• 1:00:31
  Seetha Dodd: Um, so, um, yes, I won the prize, and the prize was, you know, there were, there were m- a few different parts to it, but there was no guarantee of publication.
• 1:00:40
  Seetha Dodd: It was a one-year mentorship to work with the publishers and to see if there was the possibility of publication.
• 1:00:46
  Seetha Dodd: But I think it was I'm not sure if it was the day after th- th- I was announced a- as the winner, um, that James Leighton from Larrikin House posted on Instagram that, um, I think it was,"FYI, we are publishing this." So that's how I found out, which was which was surreal and exciting and crazy all at once.
• 1:01:08
  Seetha Dodd: But yeah, I, I think I, I, I have said to both Dani and James that I took a screenshot of that message immediately so there were no take backs.
• 1:01:16
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:01:18
  Tina Strachan: This is official.
• 1:01:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  Tina Strachan: Um- Official no, I love that.
• 1:01:21
  Tina Strachan: I think that's a really good- That's fun um, I, I love that they did that, and I think that's really funny, and just another way that this is just to prove that this is just a crazy, wild ride, and you all- Completely thank you for sharing your very wavy paths, uh, and journeys to this point.
• 1:01:35
  Tina Strachan: And, you know, I think you referred to it as a rollercoaster before, Jemima.
• 1:01:39
  Tina Strachan: And, you know, rollercoasters are scary, um, but they are super fun, and we do keep going back for more with rollercoasters, don't we?
• 1:01:46
  Tina Strachan: So we just We love them.
• 1:01:47
  Tina Strachan: We do.
• 1:01:48
  Tina Strachan: We're suckers.
• 1:01:48
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:01:49
  Tina Strachan: Uh, so, you know, it'd be super boring if it was just, you know, once, one foot in front of the other, wouldn't it?
• 1:01:54
  Seetha Dodd: Yes.
• 1:01:55
  Seetha Dodd: And I do feel that being part of this kid lit community though is almost like having that extra safety belt on when you're on the rollercoaster, so that's a really nice feeling.
• 1:02:04
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  Tina Strachan: No, that's, that's a perfect ending.
• 1:02:06
  Brenton Cullen: And something great about Can I just quickly say about the community?
• 1:02:09
  Brenton Cullen: Yeah.
• 1:02:09
  Brenton Cullen: Something I've been realizing in this past year is that even though we all have partners and families and, you know, friends and kids, and they support us and they want the best for us, no one really gets it like the other people in the kid lit community.
• 1:02:23
  Brenton Cullen: You know, they celebrate with you, they m- they cry with you when it's the rejections, or even if it's something like,"How do I understand a royalty statement?" Or,"What should I do about a school visit?" Like, there's always someone who knows exactly what you're going through, and it's just such a special Like you say, it's a tough industry, and it's very small and very close-knit, and even though all the people in our lives support us, no one really gets it like when you're talking to a kid lit community person.
• 1:02:53
  Brenton Cullen: And, uh, that's just one of the best things I think as well.
• 1:02:57
  Tina Strachan: It's so true.
• 1:02:58
  Tina Strachan: Very true.
• 1:02:59
  Tina Strachan: All right.
• 1:03:00
  Tina Strachan: Brenton, Jemima, Seetha, thank you so much for being part of The Book Deal podcast debut crew picture book, episode.
• 1:03:09
  Tina Strachan: It's been so incredible talking to you all, and there was so many wonderful nuggets of information there that I know people are gonna really enjoy, so thank you so much.
• 1:03:19
  Seetha Dodd: It's
• 1:03:19
  Brenton Cullen: been our pleasure.
• 1:03:19
  Brenton Cullen: Thank you for having us.
• 1:03:22
  Thank you for listening to another episode of The Book Deal Podcast.
• 1:03:25
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