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Why Most Paid Ad Spend Fails (And How to Fix It) with Ari Pirutinsky (#75) · Exit Algorithms

• Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Welcome to Exit Algorithms, the podcast where we decode what it really takes to unlock growth, streamline operations, and prepare your business for a high-value exit. I'm your host, Pete Vera, and today I'm joined by Ari Piratinsky, the founder and CEO of Steady Growth Partners. Ari has managed paid advertising at scale across hundreds of campaigns, built and led marketing at one of the top Google Ads agencies in the country. And now runs his own firm, fixing the problems that kill companies ad spin. Ari, super excited to have you here. Welcome the podcast. Ari Pirutinsky: Thank you, Pete. I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, I can I can't wait to dive in here. ⁓ do you mind start start off, share with the listeners, you know, your some of your background, business journey, ⁓ yeah, how you ended up starting your own firm. Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, absolutely, for sure. So ⁓ about about ten years ago I started in ⁓ in marketing space ⁓ and I I joined a I joined a company at agency. I say agency, it really was just the CEO at that point, but ⁓ the agency was called Adventure Media and I spent a good amount of time there. I spent seven years working there, really cutting my teeth, learning All things marketing, but primarily paid paid ads, paid search, paid social. That's what we specialized in at Adventure. And ⁓ by the time I left, we had built the company to ⁓ so I was the first employee who built it to about 60 full-time employees, three offices on the East Coast, and I was running the sales and marketing division within the within the ⁓ agency. and it was it was so much fun because we got to work with really big brands and starting as you know the first employee where we're working with just primarily all small businesses, very low budgets, to building up to the point where I'm standing in front of a ⁓ a a conference table pitching Forbes on why they should be using our agency. I mean that was kind of like a you know a a pinch yourself moment where it's like, whoa, anyone they'll just let anyone do this basically, huh? ⁓ and ⁓ it was it was great. It was fun. And at a certain point I I turned around and it was this kind of like stress point where I was moving farther and farther and farther away from like the end client. And that's where I get a lot of the joy in marketing in that people services aspect of it. and I decided at at a certain point I was like, you know what, this is this is probably the right time to to take a step away and and do this on my own and and and build something in the way that I can live my life the way I want to and and take on the type of clients that we want to work with and ⁓ build out the specialty that you know I think we we're very good at and build out my team in the way that I wanted and ⁓ I had all the experience behind me to to be able to do that at the right time and ⁓ and yeah and that was about four years ago now and here we are and and since then we've been building up ⁓ steady growth as as my agency. ⁓ and ⁓ and now we're on the Exit Algorithms podcast. So life's good. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yes, sir. ⁓ that's awesome. What sounds like a really good ⁓ good really good experience at Adventure. ⁓ was there any lessons you learned from from that that you carry forward in in now your own business? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, nobody knows anything and everybody's faking it. And I'm not even kidding. Nobody knows anything and everybody's faking it. And I think it was such a powerful lesson for me because when I first started out my career, I was I was timid in the way that I thought everybody knew everything and nobody was faking it. And in the way that people spoke confidently and the, you know, people in positions at big companies that, you know, had the titles to to know what they or what I thought they should know. And as I got deeper and deeper into working with bigger brands and as I got to see a lot of ⁓ variety in the types of businesses that I've worked with, I realize how important it is to realize that or I I realize how important it is to understand that there is no that no one is is is approving someone to be in the position they're in other than them just going for it. And that lesson was something that I really took to heart in in the sense of you can learn to do anything. And you have to find your lane or your niche within within whatever it is that you decide to do and get really good at that. And realize that there is a very straight path. For you to be one of the the top talents or top ⁓ best or or top experts in that ⁓ in that avenue, if you really just put your head down and and focus on building out that education for yourself. And I think like to me it was just it was it was mind blowing the way that it like opened up so many opportunities. It's like, wow, I can I can really do anything. And ⁓ It's evident by all the people that, you know, I'm speaking to in all these different positions that are just, you know, kind of saying yes and, you know, reading the book after, so to speak. And I it just really it stuck with me and it still does stick with me. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. No, that's a great great mindset shift. Yeah, that that will continue to serve you, I'm sure. ⁓ yeah, I'd love to talk about what is an you know, an engagement with you look like or or where do you start you know, that what's the starting point of your consulting work when you take a new client on? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, ⁓ great question. Always at the end, which is the the goal. I think one of the the well not I think the most important aspect to running successful paid ad campaigns is measurement and tracking. So when we start working with a client or even before that, when we start having conversations with prospects to figure out if they're the right client for us, we always start at goals. All right, well The questions are, you know, why are we having this conversation? What are we trying to accomplish? What's not working now that you you know should be working? And what does success look like to you? And it's a it's a real back and forth. We we really peel back the layers and push and prod and and try to figure out not only what the prospects goals are when we ask and they give something out over the you know, off the top of their head, but why? Like why are those the goals? And and push in a way that. We we always love to hear when a prospect in a sales call kind of pauses and and and turns to us and says, you know, no one no one really asks us these questions. So I don't really have a great answer for them. And that's great because now you're starting to uncover a little bit of the the the difference, a little bit of like, well, these clearly were not things that were done previously. setting up goals the right way, understanding why goals are set the way they are from the the client side. And I think it it just establishes this foundation of partnership and this foundation of not being afraid to to insert yourself on the in the client's like thinking and strategy and philosophy around like what does success actually mean. And it creates that partnership very, very early on. So in engagement with us, like we it's similar to Any other agency they're hiring us to do something which is to deliver marketing success, deliver marketing results, new users, efficient acquisition, you know, costs, whatever the goal is. But if we don't have that north north star, we don't we don't have the ability to watch trends and report on how campaigns are producing or how results are moving in the right or wrong direction. So always, always, always starting with goals as as the the entry point for any kind of conversation. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Love it. Yeah. ⁓ it that makes a lot of sense. You know, beginning with the end in mind. it sounds like do you tie it to certain metrics? ⁓ what what are some of the things, the you know the goals that that you are common ⁓ for your, you know, businesses you work with? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, I think it it's always it it it's always a fun conversation because instead of instead of turning to the client or the prospect and we'll we work with a lot of lead generation brands. So a SaaS brand that is trying to generate new users, but there's a a lead process. ⁓ a a new user will get to the landing page or website and or app and either they'll they'll ⁓ request the demo or start a free trial. And there's this long process between when a user becomes a lead and when a user actually that lead turns into a turns into a sale. And there's there's there's so much that goes into the the metrics behind all those different steps that we have to understand what tells us what. Are we looking to have Are we looking to establish a goal around the cost per lead? Yes and no, it doesn't really mean anything because the lead doesn't get doesn't put money in the bank, right? So when you have those conversations and you start talking about, all right, well, there's a certain volume of leads that we feel we need based on our conversion rate in order to generate the ⁓ the volume of new business deals that we're generating. Okay, well, what if in the work that we're doing, building out a landing page for you, analyzing the conversion rate metrics. What if we can tick up the conversion rate by just a drop from a demo to a ⁓ or from a user to a signed demo or for a ⁓ a new demo to a a signed customer? Well okay so then the volume of users or leads that turn into a customer increases without us making any change to the cost per acquisition on a demo or the volume of demos has less of an impact because we're we're working on the conversion rate. So there's there's a real under a real like there's a real found there's a lot of foundational work that is required in deeply understanding any kind of brand's flow that will then impact like where are you paying attention to the work? What are you working on? What's the order of operations and in in you know what you have to do in order to Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. Ari Pirutinsky: hit the goals of of you know the clients in the way that they're thinking about their goals. So there's a lot of different ways to kind of like start that conversation and like the goals really are fluid, but I think the the the most important work that we can do is helping clients understand how the like the different metrics relate to each other and which ones will have the largest impact. Like where are the leverage points where you can Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Ari Pirutinsky: have the the biggest impact, the biggest positive impact by making small tweaks and small changes. ⁓ So I think a lot of the like the the insights that we bring to clients and a lot of like kind of those aha moments from the client side is a reshifting or a reshaping of how they view a like a user journey or or a user acquisition journey. So like we're not even talking about ads right now. We're just talking about metrics and how they relate to each other. And I think Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. Ari Pirutinsky: I think it's it's so valuable to start your conversation there, forgetting about like what platforms you're advertising on because that it doesn't it even it matters way less. So that's that's a lot about like the you know, the type of goals and and you know, w what's important when you have those conversations around metrics. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, definitely. And it it makes sense you tailor the goal to the you know, the business's needs, right? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, and it's it's funny because like a lot of times we'll we'll have conversations or a a small business or really any size business will will hire a marketing agency or they'll they'll look to hire a marketing agency and some of the questions will be like, So what are the results that you're generating for other clients? Which I also I of course it's important to have case studies, obviously. And it's important for other, you know, prospects to look at the the previous work that you've done and have credibility to, you know, okay, you can generate results, there's there's challenges that you're able to overcome, interesting, unique ways of of designing marketing strategy, but it's such a difficult it's it's it sets up a lot of wrong questions, I feel that a lot of businesses come to their marketing, whether it's internal, they're running it in-house or or they're hiring an agency, but it's What are the results that you can generate for us based on the previous results that you've generated for other clients? And it it's it's so business specific. And and not only that, but again, along the same lines, you don't want the same results as any other business. You don't, because you you have to understand all the different pieces and components that that led to whatever outcome happened for you know that business. Okay, if you're the exact same business. model and you're the same size and you have the same resources and you're you're you're managing your your your finances the same way. Okay, you can look at another exactly the same brand and say, okay, what are the what are the results that we think we feel we can get based on benchmarks? Okay, you can have that conversation. But I think again it leads to this type of conversation with the client or that the client needs to have it themselves, which is forget about other brands, forget about what the agency has done in the past. What does success look like for us? How do how do we get from where we are now, the current state, to our desired state? And and that's all about like your desired state versus what has to change where you are now in order to like actually cross that bridge. So I think a lot of the work happens at that Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. Ari Pirutinsky: stage and a lot of the work happens in building those foundations and building proper conversion tracking and and and really making sure that ⁓ you know all those pieces are in place and and not really comparing to other, you know, businesses or brands and ⁓ yeah. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. No, that that makes sense. Yeah. ⁓ I I'm curious, i is there a a common theme or maybe some frameworks or strategies you use or like to see in a in an effective paid media strategy? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah. ⁓ so it's a it's a it's a bit of a general question, but I would say Yeah, so as simple as it sounds. We always want to start at what's easy. So really starting at the bottom of the funnel. And a a lot of times the questions you want to try to answer early on is do we know who we're selling to? And if we do, do we know where they are? Are they hanging out and at conferences that we can go out and talk to and get in front of them? Are they going to Google and searching for similar types of of queries that that through the context tell us these users are getting you know close to buying or making a decision. And you start really with if we know who they are if our users are and if our users already know about what we're selling. So we're not in a category we're not defining a category. It's an existing category, then we start all the way at the very bottom. Let's start to build out benchmark numbers. Let's start to advertise on Google. Let's start to get in front of users in the spaces where we have a high confidence level that these are our this is our ICP, our ideal ⁓ customer profile. And once we start to see some sort of success across all the pieces that a user is going to touch, so if you start all the way at the bottom of the funnel, you should have you should be getting in front of users that will have the highest conversion rate. And you should be able to look at The landing page, the lead flow process, the funnel that they're going through, the off any kind of like offline marketing to sales handoff, you can start to plug holes as you then start to move up funnel. So you're starting with where your users are and context that tells you there's they're they're close to or in the s decision process for your your your software, your product, your item, whatever it is, and then you start to move. up funnel and say, okay, how do I now get more people into the bottom of the funnel and ready to buy? So now you start looking at display style ads with messaging that matches what gets those bottom of funnel users all the way through the door and actually pulling the the trigger on on making the purchase. You start moving into remarketing. You start moving toward other more disruptive platforms outside of paid search like Facebook. You start thinking about how do you get into New ad platform opportunities. Reddit has been a platform that is, I mean, if you look at their I think they they reported earnings last week or two weeks ago, and they're just the the their advertising fundamentals are just crushing it. Advertisers are doing unbelievably well, but there's so few advertisers that are really leveraging the platform. Now Chat GPT ads are in beta as as a self-serve. So the the the function of each one of these platforms fits in. with a simple funnel approach strategy, as long as you have that foundation and understand you start at the bottom of the funnel and you work your way up, you then just plug in each one of the different platforms, CTV. You know, the the the the creative that matches the right platform at the right stage of the funnel kind of just flows into each other and it builds because if you have success and you're able to redeploy cash from new users that are coming through the door. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. Ari Pirutinsky: back into the advertising funnel, you just build and build and build and build out until you get to the point where you're Coca-Cola and you're just you're running brand campaigns, just so people remember who you are. ⁓ but that's like d direct response, performance advertising, it's not really overly complicated, but I think it's often made more complicated than it has to be. So that's the the general approach of like how we build out our like campaigns from that philosophy. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Wow, great answer. Thank you for ⁓ yeah getting so detailed on the process. ⁓ makes a lot of sense. You know, I I'd love to focus a little bit on the creative part. I know a lot of business owners aren't really sure, you know, what the best strategies are. I know and of course it's gonna depend on the business, but do you see any ⁓ you know effective strategies around what type of creative to to put out? Ari Pirutinsky: Native video. I mean it just works so so so well. and I think again like the the the idea that brands maybe get intimidated, but influencer style, it doesn't even need to be an influencer, but influencer style, credibility focused video short form is what generates so much positive movement and so much ⁓ just like an easy connection with with users, users to to to brands and From a creative standpoint, there's so much fatigue. I mean, you y you you can't go anywhere online without being bombarded by ads that we almost don't see static image ads anymore. And they serve a purpose, they serve a purpose, I would say, you know, very often in like a dynamic remarketing product specific type of environment. But when you talk about display in like as a general question, the way the way you posed it, I think there's there's such a there's such a l lag in the number of brands that should be leveraging short form creator style videos and brands that are doing it. And I think the difference is the the the the intimidation into the thought of, well we don't have the resources to do video. How do like video is it's a lift and it's it's not. It's just a phone. Like anyone in your office can just pull up your product and and and create an ad and I mean now with with help from many different ⁓ you know generative AI platforms it becomes it becomes a no-brainer as what you should be focusing on. And it also provides so much more context to the ad platforms which are which are ingesting and understanding the context behind each creative and using it in targeting and using it in trying to expand your audience. So definitely, definitely creator Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm-hmm. Ari Pirutinsky: style short form video ⁓ should absolutely be leveraged way more than it is. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, love it. No, great great insight. ⁓ do you see an issue with you know how AI is affecting people's content strategies? ⁓ as far as, you know, it seems like there's a a growing desire for like authentic, you know, genuine ad copy or you know, marketing in general. ⁓ I'm curious to your your thought on on how AI has affected it. Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, I I ⁓ I love it because I think I think a genuine connection with a brand is what actually gets a sale. And I think that the brands that have never been genuine and don't care to be genuine and just want to sell product, good, bad, whatever it is, are leaning very heavily into using AI to just blast out slop all over the place. And it's It's doing everyone else a service and it's it becomes much easier to be recognized for being authentic. And I I f I feel like there's a lot of brands maybe that take themselves not too seriously, but maybe move a little bit too slow in the way that everything needs to get approved and reapproved and signed off on before it goes out anywhere. And the idea behind that is through every approval process you lose a little bit of authenticity and if it it if it goes if it starts and the idea originates from the marketing department or anyone within the company and you get it out quickly and you get it out in an authentic way without trying to over glossify it with perfect editing with you know through one of these really any platform, you just it lands. So much better and it helps differentiate your brand in so many different ways in the consumer's eye than using ⁓ you know AI creative. Now I think the the the number one use case when you think about creative and leveraging AI is high volume testing. So you want to you want to be able to to to expand your audience, you want to be able to test creative angles and with platforms like Facebook ads, the Creative lever is one that you have to constantly have your hand on. So that definitely makes sense in the way that you leverage those platforms for creative testing. But I think ultimately the end result and the ads that are going to deliver are going to be those authentic-led style videos, campaigns. ⁓ even in-person activations, we see brands doing this more and more now as well, like in-person activations where you're actually getting in front of the the consumer, you're letting them touch your product, you're having conversations with them, you're like removing that digital gap that I I I don't know about you, but I definitely get frustrated by and I feel like a lot of consumers get frustrated by, which is like Your site's confusing. I don't know what I need or what I want. What material is this? Can I just feel this? I know I'm gonna order this and then have to return this three or four times until I get the right size. Or so there's like this frustration and now added on top of that is like, is that like is that product even real? Or is that just like a fake you know what I mean? Like it just it it it's it adds that layer of frustration. So more and more and more that authentic angle is going to win. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ love that answer. Glad I glad I asked you. ⁓ you know a hundred hundred percent Ari Pirutinsky: We almost we almost didn't talk about AI and and thank God we did. Thank God we did. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, no, it's important. It's ⁓ I think a a mistake a lot of business owners are making. ⁓ yeah, you know, you're seeing it. Yeah, I'm I'm curious, how are you you guys using AI in stuff inside ⁓ Steady Growth Partners? 'Cause you know, when you started a company, AI's already come a long way, right? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah. Yes. ⁓ yeah, yeah. ⁓ it's great. I I I for us the most useful case is how we use it internally as opposed to using it like outwardly for our clients and deliverables. For us, we we use AI ⁓ to augment our own team on the client level. So every call that we have, every presentation that we give, all of that is ingested by each one of our ⁓ are our client individual ⁓ projects within Cloud and all of those are built out into the specific whether it's ⁓ the specific industry or the specific output that we're we're delivering for client whether it's paid search whether it's paid social whether it's CRM strategy or ⁓ creative we We're we're leveraging a lot of a lot of what is available to us internally to speed things up, to make sure we're not missing anything. When you use something like when you use something like ⁓ Claude Cowork and you're able to just directly tie into the AI note taker that you're using so that after every call, you're immediately getting or you're running it daily, you're immediately getting that pull and it's categorizing it appropriately, it's creating follow-ups. In this is all internally. Allowing us all to move faster but also stay on top of everything without a lot of that manual work. It takes so much stress and like disorganization out of how we ultimately deliver to the client, but we always deliver to the client in a human, authentic way because it's not the client is not hiring us so that we can manage an age AI agent that can deliver reporting to them. They want the trust. factor in the trust layer of us on top of managing the the the you know clawed ⁓ project or whatever s you know skill we're using to deliver. And I think that when a client like clients are expecting us to use I AI, we don't have to remove the ⁓ dashes anymore guys. Like if if we're not if we're not using AI to deliver, then Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Ari Pirutinsky: We're doing something wrong and the client should be like questioning, like, hey, are guys utilizing the tools available to us? But the client wants to know that we are the the human knowledge and experience on top, like that layer that we can prompt correctly and we can understand with the right context. And the client then sleeps better knowing my marketing team is leveraging AI in a way that I feel I can now sleep better at night because okay, that means my company is leveraging AI the way we should be. So that's how we are leveraging the tools internally, but ultimately delivering outputs to our clients ⁓ in that human, like real deep partnership way. And I'll say one more thing, even though it's been a long enough answer, as is, one more thing, which is the way in which we develop our client relationships, starting from like we talked about a little while ago, the beginning of that. engagement puts us in a position to not just be a marketing a digital marketing agency, performance marketing agency, but we're really the clients we're we're their partner. So we're very much, you know, we we go all the way down to the to the goal on the on the business outcome level. And when you do that and you're you're being hired to run marketing, but you understand with real ⁓ depth how the Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. Ari Pirutinsky: like the business and operations works, you're so much more effective and so much there's so much more trust between you and the client ⁓ that you're you're you're able to leverage these AI tools, but still remain that that trusted partner that the client just feels they cannot even they wouldn't know what to do without. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Hmm. Yeah. No, crucial. I I love your that mindset around ⁓ how you're using it. I think that's that's exactly ⁓ you know, the the way to go. It basically allowing your team to to do more ⁓ and yeah, and less of that, you know, the grunt work that takes away from their job, right? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, absolutely. And I I I I think there's I think in general I think a lot of I think a lot of companies, well I'll say just on the agency side because that's where I have experience. I think a lot of agencies overcomplicate services and like operations. So when there was this push and if you s like I scroll LinkedIn and everyone's talking about like how they've totally completely revamped their entire operations using AI and I I I I look at these like these interactions between all the tools and I'm always thinking like this seems so silly. It's just there's so much bloat and like there's so much complication in the way that you're delivering services that it's so easy for things to break and for things to get missed. And I first felt self-conscious. I'm like, why don't I have more use for you know automated tasks or you know, automated connections between the platforms we're using for onboarding. And ultimately it's just because we keep things very simple. So it's important for sure to be leveraging AI, but don't create complications so that you can solve it for AI, right? I I I remember seeing it was probably a while ago now, ⁓ but there was like a meme going around which is ⁓ like one dude in the office ⁓ used AI to take his you know bullets and built like right out of full email. And then sent the email out and the person, the other, you know, office or the client received the email and then asked AI to put it back into bullets, right? To to to to summarize it. And it's like that's just like what's happening. We're just using it for the purpose of using it. There are obviously very powerful use cases for AI, but it it's also a time to like reassess and and and think about well, why do I need this so much? Or like what of like why are my operations so overly complicated? So Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Ari Pirutinsky: Something to keep in mind for sure. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. Definitely love it. Yeah, and it kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier about ⁓ you know effective strategy starting out with objectives of what you wanted to accomplish. Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. Yeah. Are we are we making work? Are we just like creating work? Or are we like is this necessary for the output? And that's a good good good frame to think through. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, awesome. Well, Ari, we're we're up on time here. I have one final question for you. What is one practical tip for small business owners who want to get more out of their paid media right now? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah. ⁓ they can reach out to us and we can help them. That's a practical tip. but in ⁓ in all reality the the the the the practical tip is if you cannot tie marketing data to business outcomes, then you need to start there. Because if you can't track and attribute the traffic source of where your users are coming from, and if you can't and if you can't follow the user journey from ad click all the way to a new customer, whatever change you're making or whatever optimization or strategy update you're running on on a paid ads platform, it's all meaningless because you don't ultimately know what the what the the outcome is and the ad platform doesn't know how to properly optimize for your individualized outcome. So Start there and stop there if if you can't answer those questions. And that's where you know your your you'll know where the work is if if that's the ⁓ if that's the outcome. So that's the that's the practical tip. It's a little bit esoteric, it's hard to like I'm not I don't every case is a little bit different. We're very different. ⁓ but ⁓ in that case, reach out to Steady Growth ⁓ and my team. But yeah, that's that's a practical gift. ⁓ tip. There you go. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, w no, well said. man, that's been a great conversation, Ari. Where can listeners find you and and learn more? Ari Pirutinsky: Yeah, so you can check me out on ⁓ on LinkedIn. I'm I'm sure Pete you'll you'll drop a link in ⁓ bottom of the ⁓ or as I say show notes, bottom of the video. But you can also get to try steadygrowth dot com, reach out to us. We're also offering a free attribution roadmap. So actually apropos to your your last question, Pete, if you are a business and you're running ads and something's working but you're not exactly sure what what's working, what's not working, reach out. We're happy to give you a a a free roadmap that that tells you exactly where there's a breakdown in attribution, where there's a breakdown in tracking and and how to actually fix that. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Awesome, I'll leave that in the show notes. So thanks for coming on today, Ari. Ari Pirutinsky: Sweet. Thank you, Pete. I appreciate it.