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Pill Popping Serial Liar Alex Murdaugh Admits at Murder Scene · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grief. The judge has just ordered
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the jury out for a lux recess, and I noticed
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: that it was when the state said this may be
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a good time for a recess. The state is right
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a Syrian cross examination of double
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: murder suspect Alex Murdog on the stand, and he's got
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: him caught in so many lies. As a matter of fact,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: he changed his story again in the last twenty minutes.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I think I've got this right. First, he said he
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: checked Paula Mackie's pulse when he found them dead in
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  Speaker 1: the kennel, then called nine one one. Okay. In court
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  Speaker 1: he said the reverse that he saw them, went back
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  Speaker 1: to his phone, call nine one one, and then went
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  Speaker 1: to go check their pulse. Now he's saying he was
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  Speaker 1: called nine one one while he was checking paul his
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  Speaker 1: son's pulse. Okay. A lot happening in the courtroom. The
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: jury has just left with their lunch break with me
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  Speaker 1: and all Star panel to make sense of what is
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  Speaker 1: happening right now. To Ronnie Riter joining us, a high
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: profile lawyer for the center Field family and other Alex
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  Speaker 1: Murdog victims, partner at Bland Richter, Thanks for being with us. Ronnie,
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  Speaker 1: what do you make to me? This is significant because
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: even though it was many years ago the day my
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  Speaker 1: fiance was murdered, I remember exactly what happened when he
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  Speaker 1: left the house that morning, and I never saw him
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  Speaker 1: alive again. So do you find it very unusual this
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  Speaker 1: is his third story? No, I mean not for this
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  Speaker 1: particular player. Right. We know him to be a liar,
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  Speaker 1: so he is consistent with his stripes. This is what
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: he does, you know, And this is the hazard of
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: taking the stand. You've taken a very complex case and
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: you've boiled it down to a single issue, and that
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  Speaker 1: is does a jury believe Alex but on the most
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  Speaker 1: important lie of his life, the lie he told the
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  Speaker 1: police about where he was at the time of the murders.
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  Speaker 1: Do you believe him or not? Because if he's lying,
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  Speaker 1: it means he's lying because he has a reason lie.
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  Speaker 1: So it all boils down to that one issue. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: I had a thought, and I want to see what
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  Speaker 1: you think about it. Guys also with me in addition
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  Speaker 1: to Ronnie Richter, is Jeff Gentry, forensics expert in joining
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  Speaker 1: us out of Fresno. Susan Constantine, a nonverbal communication expert.
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  Speaker 1: She's watching his every move, not just listening to what
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  Speaker 1: he is saying. Doctor Michelle Dupreep, I thought, just medical
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  Speaker 1: examiner and detective an author, and we're waiting for Ann
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  Speaker 1: Emerson from w CIV ABC to come out of the courthouse. Guys,
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  Speaker 1: I want you to help me articulate this. Okay. He
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  Speaker 1: is trying to explain why he lied. Within twenty minutes
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  Speaker 1: after the murders, he was concocting a lie that he
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  Speaker 1: had never been at the dog kennels. And now that
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  Speaker 1: he and his lawyers have seen the state's case and
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  Speaker 1: they know that there is proof he was at the
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  Speaker 1: dog kennels, He's like, oh, yeah, well I was there.
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  Speaker 1: He got me. Now, why is it that that night
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  Speaker 1: he knew that being at the kennels earlier in the
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  Speaker 1: evening would incriminate him. Only the killer would know what
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: time the murders went down. I mean, for all he knows,
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  Speaker 1: the murders happened five minutes before he got back home.
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  Speaker 1: So the fact that he knew to lie about the
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  Speaker 1: critical moment of the killing, about his whereabouts, he could
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  Speaker 1: have easily told the police the truth. Doctor Michelle Dupris.
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  Speaker 1: He could have said, I was just there. I shows
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: out at the kennels. We were playing with the dogs,
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  Speaker 1: and we did a snapchat video and a cell phone
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  Speaker 1: video and everything was fine, and I got in my
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  Speaker 1: car and I went to my mom's. I was there
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  Speaker 1: twenty thirty forty minutes. I came back and they were dead.
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  Speaker 1: But he, of all people in the world, knew that
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  Speaker 1: that moment, that timing was critical. Only the killer would
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  Speaker 1: have known that. Fancy, that's exactly right. And you know,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: look at that video again, he does not seem paranoid.
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  Speaker 1: I mean not at all. He seems actually rather relaxed.
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  Speaker 1: He is not distrustful of law enforcement at that point
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  Speaker 1: in time. But he keeps telling in his rendition of this,
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  Speaker 1: he keeps saying how he distrusted Sled and again he
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: has worked with these guys for years. I just don't
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  Speaker 1: see it. He doesn't look paranoid at all to me
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  Speaker 1: until he begins to break down in tears, and then
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  Speaker 1: things start to change. You know, I think he turned
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: those water works on and off at will. You know,
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  Speaker 1: Ronnie Richter, are you getting my gist of what I'm saying.
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  Speaker 1: I may not be articulating it as well as you could.
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  Speaker 1: But you can stick with your story about you went
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  Speaker 1: to your mom's and you lay down on the bed
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  Speaker 1: and you were there for well, he says forty minutes.
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  Speaker 1: The caregiver says, he says forty She says twenty. But
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  Speaker 1: how would he know to lie about the moment of
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  Speaker 1: the murders if he were not the killer? No, I
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: get your point exactly, and I think it's going to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: be very difficult for a jury not to navigate around
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: that one. You know, what he didn't know at the
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: time of that police interview, or what he didn't appreciate,
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  Speaker 1: I think, is the fact that that video existed at all.
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  Speaker 1: So now fast forward, you become aware of the charges,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: you become aware of the state's evidence, you become aware
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  Speaker 1: of this video, and it becomes critically important that you
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  Speaker 1: back up and explain how is it that you gave
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  Speaker 1: a different account to the And I think he's doing
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: a terrible job of that Right now. Joining me is
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  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry, forensics crime scene investigator, certified bloodstained pattern analyst,
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  Speaker 1: death investigator, and former toxicology lab analyst. Man. Jeff Gentry,
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  Speaker 1: You've worn a lot of hats what doctor Dupree just
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  Speaker 1: mentioned about him not seeming paranoid. He wasn't fidgeting, he
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  Speaker 1: wasn't scratching in his nose or his face. He wasn't
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  Speaker 1: rubbing his hands back together, he wasn't shaking any of
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  Speaker 1: his limbs. Christine, get you show the video, not out loud,
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  Speaker 1: no sound, but I want everybody to see him in
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  Speaker 1: that in the vehicle and the cruiser. He's just sitting there.
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  Speaker 1: Calumnists can be telling his story. I mean, look at him.
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  Speaker 1: You are a former toxicology lab analyst. What do you
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  Speaker 1: make of what doctor Dupree just said. I completely agree.
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  Speaker 1: It's it's ridiculous to think that he is just making
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  Speaker 1: this up on the fly. It's crazy. This is all
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  Speaker 1: planned out, It's it's concocted. I've investigated hundreds of deaths
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  Speaker 1: and I've seen people that are under the influence. I've
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  Speaker 1: seen people that die as a result of overdoses, and
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  Speaker 1: he didn't really seem to be under the influence. He
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  Speaker 1: was pregnant, pretty cognizant of what was going on, He
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  Speaker 1: was aware of his surroundings. He was acting appropriately, He
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  Speaker 1: was answering the questions that he wanted to answer. I've
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  Speaker 1: also seen people that have witnessed death. I've seen family
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  Speaker 1: members that witnessed death, and they do not act like this.
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  Speaker 1: You can tell when it's genuine feelings of pain and
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  Speaker 1: anguish after witnessing a death or finding a family member dead.
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  Speaker 1: You don't see any of this with him at all.
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  Speaker 1: I've also seen the flip side of it. I've seen
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  Speaker 1: when families have something to hide or suspects have something
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  Speaker 1: to hide, and that's exactly what you're seeing here. It's
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  Speaker 1: no surprise his actions are scripted. They're scripted in court,
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  Speaker 1: they were scripted the day that he committed these crimes.
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  Speaker 1: So everything that you're seeing you would expect to see
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  Speaker 1: in somebody in this lame Okay. Susan Constantine with me
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  Speaker 1: is master of psychology, deception of Body Language, expert, author
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  Speaker 1: of The Complete Idiots Guide to Reading Body Language. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to take that the best possible intentions, But Susan,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I want you to listen. Christine just turned this around
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  Speaker 1: for you guys to hear. Our cut twenty. This is
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  Speaker 1: when he changes his story. Well, this is his first
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  Speaker 1: story about telling the police. He checked the bodies, both
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  Speaker 1: of them, and then called nine one one. This is
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  Speaker 1: what he said that night. Boy over there, I could
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  Speaker 1: see it was. I could see his brains and I
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: ran over to Maggie. Actually, I think I tried to
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  Speaker 1: turn Paul over first. Um uh, you know, I tried
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to turn him over, and I don't know I figured
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  Speaker 1: it out, um himself on popped out of his pocket.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I started to try to do something with it, thinking maybe,
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  Speaker 1: but then I put it back down really quickly. Um.
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  Speaker 1: Then I went to my wife. I did I touched
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  Speaker 1: the boat. I tried to take I mean, I tried
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  Speaker 1: to do it. It's limited as possible, but I tried
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  Speaker 1: to take their pauls on both of them, and um,
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  Speaker 1: you know I called nine one one, um pretty much
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  Speaker 1: right away. Okay. That see, that's got to synk in
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  Speaker 1: with the as I'm called in the on Star data
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  Speaker 1: of him opening and closing the car, and opening and
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  Speaker 1: closing the car repeatedly at that in those minutes, Susan Constantine,
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  Speaker 1: what do you make of his body language there right there? Well,
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  Speaker 1: I think is this the one we're talking about that
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  Speaker 1: he was in the police car. Because I don't see
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  Speaker 1: the video in front of me, but what I will see, yes, too. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: that's it. Okay, okay, So when I'm watching a spotting language,
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  Speaker 1: first of all, let's go back a little bit. You're
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  Speaker 1: talking about paranoia. Paranoia. You should be able to see
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  Speaker 1: whites above the eye that looks like this. The eyelid
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  Speaker 1: is lifted up and you're in a state of paranoia
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  Speaker 1: and your mouth dropped. So I've seen this paranoia expression
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  Speaker 1: quite a bit with serial killers and people that are
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  Speaker 1: detached from their emotions. That was not paranoia. The other
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  Speaker 1: thing is that I noticed is that in paranoia, your
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  Speaker 1: forehead wool crankle because your isolids are raised. That's paranoia.
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  Speaker 1: And the same thing is what you're saying, Nancy, is
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  Speaker 1: you would see the fidgetiness the ancients, the oddity of
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: the language, the fast pace of the language, kind of
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  Speaker 1: going in and out. I've seen people on opioids when
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  Speaker 1: they are in that paranoid statement or a stage that
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  Speaker 1: was at it. His body language is left quite open.
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  Speaker 1: He has one hand that's rested with his fingers just
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  Speaker 1: slightly closed more in a relaxed position. I did not
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  Speaker 1: see a sense of franticness about him. I didn't see
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  Speaker 1: a lack of concern or even fear those emotions were
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: not present in that car. Guys, Christine, could you pull
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  Speaker 1: up our cut nineteen? This is when Alex marlog is
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  Speaker 1: questioned on getting out of the car and checking the bodies.
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  Speaker 1: Take a listen. Looking at this data to show the
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  Speaker 1: vehicle parking at ten or five and fifty five seconds
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  Speaker 1: ten or five fifty seven the suburban arrives at the kennels.
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  Speaker 1: You agree with that? Okay? The nine one one call
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  Speaker 1: was at ten six fourteen, okay, just about twenty seconds later.
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  Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? I think that sounds right, Yes, sir,
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  Speaker 1: I saw them, and I know I jumped out of
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  Speaker 1: my car, but I believe that before I checked them.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, I'm almost certain. And then I went back
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  Speaker 1: and I got my That's when I went and got
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  Speaker 1: my phone and I called down one on one and
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  Speaker 1: later at this point that what you're saying here today,
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  Speaker 1: now that we have this data, that's not exactly how
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  Speaker 1: you expressed it the law enforcement in your part of statements.
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  Speaker 1: Is that correct? So I disagree with that. Crime Stories
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  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace looking at this data to show the
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  Speaker 1: vehicle parking at ten oh five and fifty five seconds
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  Speaker 1: ten oh five fifty seven the suburban arrives at the kennels.
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  Speaker 1: You agree with that? Okay? The nine one one call?
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  Speaker 1: Was it ten O six fourteen? Okay? Just about twenty
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  Speaker 1: seconds later? Do you agree with that? I think that
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  Speaker 1: sounds right, Yes, sir, I saw them, and I know
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  Speaker 1: I jumped out of my car, but I believe that
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  Speaker 1: before I checked them that I'm almost certain. And then
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  Speaker 1: I went back and I got my That's when I
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  Speaker 1: went and got my phone and I called now one.
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  Speaker 1: I want to belave at the point then, what you're
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  Speaker 1: saying here today, now that we have this data, that's
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  Speaker 1: not exactly how you expressed it the law enforcement in
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  Speaker 1: your prior statements. Is that correct? No? So I disagree
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: with that. Okay? Hearing that, M Chris say, let me
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: know when we get Anne Emerson outside of the courthouse,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: because I want to find out how the jury was
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: reacting to that. To you, Ronnie Richter or a lawyer
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: for the Sidefield family, what do you make of what
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you're hearing? Well, I mean you hear stark inconsistency, right, So,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: but the worry is he getting lost on the jury.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. How are they receiving this? Do they
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: see the stark difference between the two different accounts, and
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: not just the difference, but obviously what's happened in the
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: intervening span of time is Alex has come to learn
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: the evidence that the state has. In chameleon like he's
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: able to shape the story to match the new facts.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: You know, there's no way you could have done everything
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that he first described if his yukon pulled up in
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: twenty seconds later he's calling nine one one, So obviously
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: he's shaping the story to fit the evidence. Yes, now
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: that the state's case has been made clear, his story
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: is evolving. Now there was a moment you can see
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: it in our cut seven where prosecutor w and Murdoch's
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: square off over the first time he ever reveals publicly
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: that he actually was at the scene of the martyrs
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: take a list an hour cut seven. When I got
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: arrested and I went to jail, we began reaching out
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: to you to talk to you about all of these things,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to try to tell you everything that I had done,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: to give you all these details to help y'all go
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: through these financial things, and up until the time that
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: y'all charged me with murdering my wife and child, you
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: would never give Jim Griffin a response to iron imitations
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: to sit down and meet with you. Are you saying
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: that you ever before yesterday reached out to anyone through
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: yourself or through your attorneys, and reached out anyone in
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: law enforcement or the prosecution and told them the story
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: about the kennels? Are he telling me that I'm what
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you first place? Sir? No, Sir, I did
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: not just questioning about him volunteering information on these charges
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: bolas his Fifth Amendment right, and we strongly object objections overrules. Yeah, forgrect,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: he did not bring it. He was talking about financial stands. Okay, Ricter,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: It does not violate his Fifth Amendment right because he
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: has waived his Fifth Amendment right when he got to
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: pull the witness stand. He is no longer invoking his
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: right to remain silent. Hello, he's on the stand testifying,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: so there's no more fifth So did you hear the
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: objection on the Fifth Amendment ground? That's ridiculous. This is
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: the hazard of putting the man on the stand. I
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: don't that they put him there or he insisted to go.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: But everything that had come into evidence up until that
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: point in time is fair game all cross examination. Everybody
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: would have known that in making the decision he's going
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to testify in the financial crimes are front and center.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: It is the state's motive case. However you feel about
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: that motive, it's a little shaky, but it is the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: motive cases they put on his fair game for cross examination.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: It's a ridiculous objection, Ronnie Richter, attorney for the Sadderfield family.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: You seem to suggest that the motive is shaky, But
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: isn't it true that the state is never required to
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: show any motive at all, And by showing the extent
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: of his lies and his debt, that the world was
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: spinning out of control for him, that sounds like motive
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to me. Richter, the state doesn't even have to show motive. Well,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: you're one hundred percent right. The state does not have
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: to show it. But as a practical matter, the jury
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: always wants to know it. Right, So, whether you have
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: to press or not, the jury wants to know why
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: did you do this? And the idea that I was
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: under such extreme financial pressure that it caused me one
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: day to break and go home and shoot my son's
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: head off and brutally murder my wife that's shaky. But
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: having said that, the defense has now made this a
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: single issue case. Do we believe Alex or not on
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: his account about where he was at the time of
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the murders, because if he lied about it, he did
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: it because it was important to lie about. And Susan Constantine,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I think, I hear you coming in, and I want
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: to ask you. Yes, I hear what Richter's saying, and
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: he's got a really good point, but he's trying to
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: apply logic to an illogical thinking pattern. Nothing Murdoch did
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: stealing nine million dollars, being high on oxy all the time,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: doing all the cover ups he did. None of that
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: makes sense for a guy that's got a great reputation.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: He's got a great family standing, he's got a beautiful wife,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: two sons, three properties that I know of, So none
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: of this makes sense. Susan, No, it doesn't make sense.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: And I knew that once he took the stand, because
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: he's now trying his own case that the more he speaks,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: the more he's going to reveal himself. Deception detection one
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: on one is shut up and let him talk, because
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: when it keeps talking, he's going to start refuting the
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: things that he's already stated, and then the steak can
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: come in and then go back and pull up what
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: he had said and see how they contradict. So I
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: think this was a big win for the state because
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: he's trying to try his own case and his lies
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: are being revealed, especially when he's tried and he's tried
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and he's tried again, which is nothing but an attempted
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: failure over and over again. So the word tried is
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: a real big one for me. Susan constant saying, you're
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: on it as usual. Hold on, Hey, I think I've
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: got Ann Emerson in the seat. She's just come out
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: of the courthouse, senior investigative reporter to WCIV ABC, and
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: she's also the star of a hit podcast called Unsolved
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: South Carolina, The Murdog, Murders, Money and Mystery. Ant, thanks
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: for being with us. First of all, I've got to know,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: did a jar or cry yesterday? Well, what I was
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: seeing was I didn't see tears, but I saw a
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: lot of emotion, a lot of leaning in from where
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I was sitting. What I did see was at some
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: point there was there was some person who was actually
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: from the jury that was actually handing a box of
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Kleenex to the defend And so that was an extraordinary moment.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: As far as actual tears from one of the jurors,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't witness any tears. Dear Lord and heaven. Rick
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: or you're a trial lawyer, what's worse? You are crying
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: or you're handing a box of Kleenex to the defendant
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: on the stand. Okay, so the Southern or Nancies I
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: could tell you that we can slip you a box
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: of Kleenexes and stab you in the back of the
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: same time. So I'm not that's true. Yeah, Okay, that's
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: very true, Richter, very true. Indeed, the next thing they'll
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: say is bless his heart. Okay, and Anderson, back to
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: you again. Thank you for elbowing your way out of
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: the courtroom, because there's a bottleneck coming out of the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: courtroom and getting down those stairs. What did you observe
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom? And an Emerson, Well, Nancy, thanks for
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: having me. And you know, after listening to the testimony yesterday,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: of course we were all sort of on edge to
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: find out how this cross exam was going to keep
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: on going. And boys, it kept on going. He's just
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: nailing down this timeline. So that's what I was really
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: listening to as far as some of what was happening
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: in that courtroom. As you just said, there is a
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: huge crowd in that courtroom today. It is absolutely packed.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I heard that this morning at like six o'clock in
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the morning. They were turning people away saying you're never
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: going to get in because they had actually right in
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: front of me, gone all the way to Hampton Street.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: If you remember Hampton Street, that line wrapped around and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: up to the top of the where the courthouse steps
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: are now on top of that, it was a little
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: bit more boisterous in there, to the point where the
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: judge actually had to say to everybody that had come
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: to watch, says, there will be no jeering, there will
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: be no discussion. Everybody needs to be absolutely silent during
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: the proceedings because whenever there was a moment where perhaps
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the public thought that Alec Murdock was getting away with something,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: or that Crayton Waters had made a great point, there
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: was definitely a pro state sort of audience up there.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: You would hear a little jeering or maybe a couple
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: of claps, and as you know, that just cannot go
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: on in Judge Newman's courtroom, So there was that whole
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: kind of feeling. It was a little bit more of
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: a circus today than okay, way way, but this is
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: not the Brooklyn Zoo. People are clapping and cheering and
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: or jeering. I'm surprised no one didn't throw them out
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: on the rear end. I'm shocked, but they didn't. But
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: what he did say was before the jury came back
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: after a break, he said, there will be none of
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: that again, Like you've gotten your warning. You're a new
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: crowd in here. No one is making another sound in
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: my courtroom. So we got it under control there, but
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: it was absolutely going in the early part of this morning.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: For sure. I'm very, very disappointed, not in the judge,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: but I'm disappointed in the group in the courtroom. I mean,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: it's like they all ballied up to the bar and
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: watching WWE up on the TV screen for Pete's sake.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Do you know, and well, of course you did, because
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: you're a veteran journalist, that type of behavior can cause
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: a mistrial. Did you know that any outburst in the
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: courtroom you run the risk? Who I think it's viable, No,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: but can it happen. Yes, they could actually be a
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: mistrial over that kind of behavior. Well, you're absolutely right, Nancy,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and you know that is what was Newman trying to
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: stop it. I think as soon as he had a break. However,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: we've had this once before in the courtroom where it
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: was even louder. And I don't know if you remember this,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: but it was probably maybe week two, maybe week three.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: We're on, you know, we're headed into week six next week,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: so you know, we've had one other instance of this
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and it definitely was jarring for anyone because it makes
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: your stomach jump, doesn't it. I Mean you're like, oh
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: my gosh, we can't get this far and then have
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: a mistrial with things going the way they're going right now.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: But it was extraordinary now as far as what happened
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and in there, I definitely saw that the jurors were
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: paying a lot of attention there is there is a
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: very strong bee line into this timeline right now. They're
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: working really hard. Waters is working really hard to nail
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: down the defendant on these details of where he was
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: after that kennel video before he left for Almida, and boy,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: all I can say is when y'all were listening to it,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: you know, we are down to seconds. We are down
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: to seconds of where he was in that house and
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: whether or not it is logical whether he would have
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: heard anything at that point. I am looking from my
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: little trial notebook. I had it down to I think
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: an eleven second window between the time that Maggie answered
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: her last video where Paul and then they all went dead,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: no more responses. There's that window right there. They're really
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: hammering him and he's changing his story a lot today
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: in the last thirty thirty five minutes about the Kennel story, guys,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut eight. But you had
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: met information was never conveyed that you wanted to change
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: your story after multiple interviews with law enforcements about what
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: happened that night, including the most important fact of all,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: which is when the last time you supposedly saw your
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: wife and son alive, was I understood to bring all
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: this to a close, that y'all would want me to
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: sit down and go through all of these financial things,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: all of these things that I've done wrong, and to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: try to bring that to a close. The reality is,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: mister Murdoch is the reason why no one's ever heard
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: that before. It's because you had to sit in this
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: courtroom and hear your family and your friends, one after
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: the other, coming and testify that you were on that
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: kennel video. So you, like you've done so many times
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: over the course of your life, had to back up
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: and make a new story that kind of fit with
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the facts that can't be denied. Isn't that true, sir?
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: That's not true. The second that you're confronted with facts
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: that you can't deny, you immediately come up with a
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: new lie. Isn't that correct? Mister Waters? Have we established
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I have lied many times, but I can't sit here
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: and tell you that what are you talking about facts
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: that I can't deny? I admit again that I have
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: lied to people that trusted me. Okay. Also, new details
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: are now emerging with Murdogue on the witness stand about
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: the night of the murders. Take a listen hour cut nine.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: When did you take the shower that you've been talking about, Joey?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I believe when I first went in the house, I
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: mean I would have talked to Maggie for a second,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: but i'd seen her that morning, so we left your
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: clothes on the floor. I'm not sure it makes sense
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to me giving what blank because said, But I couldn't
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: tell you about what time was, Like you thinking and
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: looking at the records, I think that was a little
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: after eight. I came back out, sat out on the
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: cash eating dinner. And you say Paul was already eating
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: at that point. He was, And just to be clear again,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: but I didn't see him. All of this detail was
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: people were here for the first time yesterday, like we
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: talked about before. Yes, I did not tell law enforcement
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: and all of this the last time you saw your
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: supposedly saw your wife and child. All of this detail you,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: as a lawyer and a prosecutor, didn't think that was
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: important to offer on your own. Oh, I think it's important.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: You told this jury how cooperative you were, you've been,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: and how much information you want to provide. But you
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: left out the most important parts, didn't you. I left
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: out I left out that I sure did the very
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: last time he saw his wife and his son alive. Hey,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: guys on the panel, remember we're not having high tea
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: with King Charles at Windsor Castle. Jump in people. Rick
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: back to you. You're the trial lawyer joining us, But
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: all of you, I think can relate to this. The
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: last time everybody's lost somebody they loved. I lost my fiancea.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: He was murdered shortly before our wedding. I remember the
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: last time I saw him. He was driving away and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I was standing there waving at him, leaving early at
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: five o'clock in the morning, and he held his left
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: hand out of his car and waved back. The next
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: thing I saw of him, he was in a casket.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I remember that. How did he leave out the last
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: time he saw Maggie murdog alive, the last time he
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: saw his son alive? Rictor, you're a veteran trial lawyer.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: How could an individual forget that or get it wrong? Somehow? Well?
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: You can't, you know. And it's a credibility case. Now
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: forensics don't matter anymore. I don't think any of it
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: matters anymore. I think all that matters is are they
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: convinced with the account that he's now giving? And how
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: could you be when account keeps changing? I think those
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: events would be emblazoned in his mind. I don't see
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: any room for any ambiguity here whatsoever. He's had nothing
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: to think about since the time of their death except
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: this very thing. I think you would remember every look.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I think you would remember every comment. To think the
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: details like this are somehow absent is not credible. And
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: doctor Michelle du Pree, pathologist, medical examiner, you have processed
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: so many homicides. You've taught of so many witnesses that
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: were the last ones to see the victim alive. That's
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: very important in your line of work to determine cause
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: of death. Sometimes when you need to look at extrinsic
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: evidence beyond the victim's body, what do you make of him?
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: He can't remember the last It just happened an hour ago,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, an hour, an hour and a half.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: He doesn't remember the last time he saw them. He
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: can remember something so clearly, things that are not really
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: that important, and the important things is so fuzzy on
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: And it's clearly evident now that he was much more
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: interested in setting up an alibi and confirming his story
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: with Blanca and Shelley before he ever gave law enforcement
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: the real information, you know, talking about that, I'm going
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: to circle back with you, Susan Constantine, but first I've
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: got to have corroboration from w CIV and Emerson and
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: if I have to hear about the chicken and Bubba
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: getting the chicken, and Bubba was proud he caught the chicken.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Who gives a flying fig about the chicken.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: He talks about it and talks about it, it it talks
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: about it. Why is it something comfortable for him to
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: talk about. No, it's what he's got to fill in
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the gaps now, right now that he's admitted to this
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: to the big lie of of the kennel video, he
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: has to try and make this timeline fit. And that
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: is exactly what he's doing. He's telling the jury to
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: their face once again, I really want to talk about
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: like that body, like his big six foot four frame
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: is filling that jurybox. He is looking straight at the
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: jury the whole time. He's telling this new account of
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: the story that no one has ever heard before, including
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I guess his lawyers to some degree. We're hearing this
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: brand new account. He's got to fit it into this
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: really tight timeline that we've been talking about. And part
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: of it is how do you get a live animal
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: or a dead animal out of the jaws of a
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: big dog in just a couple of seconds. Get that
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: chicken up on a crate and then get back in
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: your golf cart and somehow say goodbye very very quickly
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: and then race up to the house. That is what
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: createon Waters is trying to break down and make him
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: kind of lose track of time, possibly a little bit,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: because that is really the crux of this whole case,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: isn't it, as far as having some really strong threads
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: to build this rope for the for the um sate.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: This this is what we're talking about, and and I
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: think we're getting very close. So I hear that chicken
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: story one more time. I'm going to call the chicken
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: in as a hostile witness. So you, Susan Constantaine, what
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: about it? What do you make of his demeanor? Every
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: time he gets in a bad spot, he'll start snotting
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: up or start talking about the darned chicken and the
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: dog and the bubba and then this and the spit cup.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: It's just for those of you don't they don't know
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: as chewing tobacco and you spit it into a cup. Okay,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: that's said, Go ahead, Susan Constantaine. Cluck cluck, cluck. I
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: just had to say that on as we're talking about
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the chicken. Anyway, you had to, I just had to
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: do it. So anyway, um, liars always move away from
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the truth, right, So they're trying to use a distractors
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: and the chicken and all this other kind of jazz,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: but they also skip over all this incriminating information. So
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: he's trying, like I said, he's trying to fit his
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: narrative together the timeline, so he intentionally skips over, minimizes,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: removes omits crucial information because it's really important. So back
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: to all of these little stress indicators. What's going on
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: is his mouth is drying. We know that through just
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the vocal cords get dried, they become strained. He starts
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: looking around in his mouth. He's pushing away the inside
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: of his mouth, away from his teeth because of the
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: dryness of his mouth. That in itself is not a
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: deception indicator. But when you combine it with what he's saying,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: his demeanor, with the anxiousness, the nervousness, and the crying
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: and the amount of crime. So what I had stated
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: earlier on another show is that what he's doing is
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: he's pushing these emotions so on a scale of intensity,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: it didn't warrant that level of intensity, but he's forcing
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: it so you can see it in his forehead. His
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: skin becomes extremely red, really flushed, and then you see
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: falls on the snot and everything else all flowing down.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: So he's pushing these emotions. And that's why for others
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: that are looking at it are looking going, you know,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: wipe your nose, there's something it's really disgusting, but he doesn't.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: He leaves it there so that everybody can see it
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: because what he's doing. His need is to feel people
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: to feel sympathy and compassion for him. And that was
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: why concerned with two of those jurors to you, Doctor
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree joining US Pathologists, medical examiner, former detective, author
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Why people have been going
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: crazy on social and their right about him sucking his
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: teeth and his mouth is dry and he's licking his lips,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: just like Susan Constantine was describing. Why does your mouth
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: go dry when you lie or you're under or emotional dress, Nancy,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: it's really still part of that fight or flight response,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and your mouth becomes dry because you're you're scared, you're nervous,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: you have anxiety, and that's going to cause your mouth
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: to go dry when you're not telling the truth, or
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: you're nervous, or you know, whatever may be the case.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: You know, to something else, go ahead. Oh okay, there
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: was something else that I wanted to point out, and
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: it was a note that came up as he was talking.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: As someone said earlier very astutely on the panel, you know,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: the more he talks, the more he's trying to fill
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: in some of these details, and more trouble he could
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: possibly get into with his story. And one thing that
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: he said, and that was there was nobody around for
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: them to sense talking about the dogs, because you were like, well,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: why were the dogs barking? Did you hear the dogs?
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Was there anything going on with the dogs? And he said,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: very clearly, Alex said, there was nobody else around. There
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: was nobody else around. That's why the dogs weren't at
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: a high alert. That's why we didn't have any problems
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: with them. You know what, we were just gonna play
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: that an Emerson, you read my mind, Thank you. Dogs
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: barking and carrying on or going out into the woods
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: or acting like they sense somebody was around that they
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: didn't know. Were the dogs acting like there was somebody
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: around it. They didn't know. Yeah, like dogs do. No, No,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: they weren't. There wasn't nobody there was around that the
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: dogs didn't know. Okay, dogs didn't didn't do your indications
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: sense anything out of the ordinary. They were just chasing
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: after the guinea. There was nobody felts around, all right,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: there you go. There was nobody else around that the
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: dogs didn't know, Nobody but him. I was going to
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: ask you later one person I wrote in on social
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: So what happened he was there at the kennel and
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: then what was he doing for the next four minutes?
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Blackberries and sunflowers out on the back lot. I mean,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: it's just nothing he's saying right now, is making any sense. Hey,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry, let me ask you a question. The reason
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: we're talking about the significance, well, for a lot of reasons, evidentiary,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: probitive reasons. Whether he called nine one before he checked
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: their pulse. His story has varied. Now as a matter
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: of fact, they correct me if I'm wrong. I wrote
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: it down during testimony, and Emerson he's now saying, wait
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: a minute, I called nine one one while I was
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: checking Paul's pulse. He actually said that. He said that,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: didn't he Anne. That's right. He's now trying to marry
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: those timelines, are trying to marry that time of when
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: he called nine to one one and when he was
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: checking pulses and checking the bodies of Maggie and Paul
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: and who came first. He's not real sure, but he
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: was going back and forth checking these bodies in sort
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: of this chaotic fashion. And I'll tell you what it
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: reminds me of as a It's a book that that
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Scott Peck wrote called People of the Lie, And it's
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: very interesting to hear whether or not he remembers, or
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: whether or not he is weaving. He's trying to create
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: this um, this blurred timeline at that point. Um just
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: not trying to like sit on the truth necessarily, but
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: in his mind he's telling now. The story that he's
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: saying to the state is it wasn't He wasn't trying
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: to lie to David Owen, to h and Owen about
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: that timeline. He was just not. He was just panicking.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: He was running from body to body. He was calling
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: nine to one at the same time. That is just
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: not a clear timeline now and for him. That works
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: with what he's trying to say. Jeff Gentry joining us
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: at a Fresno. Jeff, you are a blessed Saint, pattern
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: analyst and death investigator. I think it's going to be
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: critical because of the blood Maggie's blood on his steering wheel.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Did he check the pulse and then go back to
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: the car to get his cell phone? Did he have
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a cell phone on him? At what point did Maggie's
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: blood get on his steering wheel? Going back to the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: previous about him checking pulses and everything while he was
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: on the nine one one call. So I've also had
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: MT training and so both of these people had injuries
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: incompatible with life. So Paul had essentially, you know, his
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: brain blown out of his head, so he's laying there
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: dead on the ground. No reasonable person would check a
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: pulse on somebody that has their brain next to their body.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: And then Maggie, she was shot multiple times with an
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: AAR fifteen style rifle. I don't know if you've ever
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: seen people that have been shot with those guns before,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: but the damage is not pretty so her also there
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Any reasonable person, especially an attorney, somebody has law enforcement experience,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: would not go up and check the pulse of these individuals.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: They would be on the phone immediately, you know, at
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: nine one one, trying to get help. They would realize that,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: you know, there's probably not much that can be done.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: But as far as the blood that was transferred to
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: the stirring wheel, that was probably done earlier on. I mean,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I know it was wet there when he was driving
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: to his mother's house, it could have already been transferred
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: at that point. I am personally of the opinion that
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: he disposed of his bloody clothing. I mean, the assault
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: was very violent. He was in close proximity to the victims,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: so it makes sense that he would have some blood
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: on his clothing, on his shoes, somewhere on his body
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: as long as well as GSR. So he knew that.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And Emerson, I've got to ask you a question before
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: you begin to make your way back into the courthouse.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: The jury is showing no recognition of these lines. There
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: hasn't been one I roll, not one shake of the head,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: nothing Now, I think much more to the point, there
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: have been a couple of times where I've seen jurors
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: literally just turned their back to the whole conversation that
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: he's having with himself about what happened, and you know,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: trying to explain to Craton Waters. I literally have seen
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: body language where you know, jurors literally kind of move
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: to be looking in other directions. So I think it's
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: even more than that. I saw another one kind of
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: just like look down. Like absolutely, to your point, I'm
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: definitely seeing recognition of the fact that this does not
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: add up at times. Specifically when I'm talking about this,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I'm specifically talking about the kennel video. I think I
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: think that's probably still as much of a timeline issue
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: as you could possibly have. So they're having a very
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: hard time rectifying that, and you can see it absolutely.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: You can see it on their faces, you know. And Emerson,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: I look at every single fact like it's a rubious Keyme.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I have to look at it fifty different ways before
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I'm finally happy. Are they Because I've actually read on
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: social and people are saying, to my face and the
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: grocery store, why is he doing this on cross Why
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: won't the state move on from financial? I'm like, because
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: this is important. Every detail matters, every lie to someone
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: he trusted or loved. He said he loved some of
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: his clients, but still lie to their face and stole
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: from them. So I'm worried. It says you're fed up
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: with the lie and defendant or from the barrage of
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: questions from the state, because the state has got to
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: do what they've got to do. And yeah, well you're right,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: and I think that they are doing what they need
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: to do. But there is like a time where I
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: think that you can see absolutely I mean, this has
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: been a really long trial. It's a marathon, so you
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: can absolutely see on their faces when they start to
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: get just kind of fed up with the questioning. And
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: we were getting there at lunch time, and of course
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: it's right before lunch. I think right before lunch and
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: right after lunch seemed to be very dangerous times for
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: for whoever is trying to cross or direct on with
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: someone on the witness stand. They just starting to kind
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: of the jury just starts to kind of lose it
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: at some point, you know, one guy, I mean, you know,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: you just never know how people are going to react
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: in that situation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Susan Constantine,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: what do you make jurars actually turning away, physically turning
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: their backs. This tells me a lot. I'd love to
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: watch the panel the jury. One thing I want you
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: to pay attention to is watch their eye blinking, how
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: fast it's blinking, because that shows cognitive load and impatience.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: The fact is that they're shifting away away from him.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: That has an anchor shift. That's huge because that's saying
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: that they're impatient. There's disbelief even when the head goes down.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: But when you start to see jurors mirroring one another
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: and doing that at the same time, that's telling you
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: what the majority is feeling. Anytime or moves their shifts
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: their anchor, their upper torso or their length, or even
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: get up and shift to the other side of the chair,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: that is not a good sign. Because when a person
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: is connected and believe someone, they're more, they're right directly
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: in front of them, not turning away. Turning away is
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: a really bad sign. Is exiting out. I want out
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: in here, I'm tired of it. Get me out. I
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: don't believe it. George Michelle Duprey, I think I heard
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: you jump out. Yes, so I just wanted to make
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: a comment. I understand the financial implications and the relevance
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: to this, but I'm I'm afraid that the state is
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: leaving a little too much for the jury to and far.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I want the state to come out and say, if
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Alex can lie to the people he cared about and
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: loved straight to their face, looked them in the eye,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: why do you think that you should believe him? Now?
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: As a jury you don't even know him. But I
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: want them I want the state to make that case.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want to leave it up to the jury
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: to infer that. Nancy. I'm sure they're going to be
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: arguing and arguing and closing arguments. Is that you rictor No?
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: This is Jeff No, go ahead, Nancy. I agree with
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the doctor. I wish the prosecution during that moment when
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: he said that I'm reading it off. He said he
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: was willing to hurt the people that he loved. I
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: wish the prosecution right after that would have said, well
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: did you love Maggie? Did you love Paul? And that
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: that way the jury could have heard it in connection
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: with him stating that he is willing to hurt the
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: people that he loved. Okay, now wait a minute, you
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: are an EMT, you're a crime scene investigator. A blood
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: stained pattern analyst, a death investigator, former topsychology alive balancet.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: And now you're coming up with some pretty good cross
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: examination questions, so you may want to rethink that career
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: you've got going on. Who is his doctor, Duke jumping
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: in ahead. Yes, yes, that's an excellent point if you
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: go back and look at the defense yesterday when he
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: asked Alex to describe Maggie and to describe Paul, and
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: this was very telling to me. He gives all kinds
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: of accolades, very nice adjectives, very personable, very personal adjectives,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: but he does not say I love them, I loved her.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Offense actually asked that exactly what I thought, because you
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: know what, if somebody asked, hey, tell me about David,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say, oh, well, you know what, he got
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: his CPA and then he went and got his graduate
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: degree at the Wharton School, and I would say I
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: love him. He's the best father. He takes care of
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: my ninety one year old mother and that's certainly not easy.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: He's always upbeat. I wouldn't be talking about his CV.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: And that is what it sounded like when he described Maggie.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: He never said she's my whole world. Never did hear
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: that I love her? I love her, Guys, something else
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: happened in the courtroom today. I love it when it
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: degenerates to this point where the defendant is saying, everybody's
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: lying but him. Okay, let's kick it off, Christie, let's
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: you're cut. Seventeen. You told law enforcement on multiple occasions that,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: first of all, Maggie was planning to stay at Edistow
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: the night of June seventh. Correct. I did say that,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: all right. And you also said that you came to
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: find out that she came home of her own accord. Correct.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: You told that to law enforcement. Is that true? She
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: did come home of her own accord, that she decided
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: on her own to come home because she was worried
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: about you. Didn't that what you said? I did say that.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I believe that to be the case, all right. But
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: since we've despite what you told law enforcement, we've since
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: seen the text that you actually called her and asked
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: her to come home on the night of June seventh. No, sir,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: that's not correct. That's not correct. No sir, that's absolutely
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: not correct. All right. So you heard your sister in
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: all married and testified it just that fact of a
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: conversation of what she had with Maggie. But you're saying
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: that's not true. I don't believe that's what Matt Marian said. Okay, Well,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: we all heard Marian Proctor on the stand and she
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: said that Maggie communicated to her that Murdoch wanted Maggie
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: to come to Mozelle. So I guess Marian Proctor, that's
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Maggie's sister, is just a big fat lawyer, right, Well,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: she's not the only one. Take a listen to our
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: cut eighteen. When you had a conversation with miss Shelley
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: after the fact, you actually asked her to say that
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: you were there longer than twenty minutes. You know, I
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: heard Shelley's testimony. I believe Shelley to be a good person.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to influence Shelley on any particular length
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: of time because at the beginning of this I believe
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: that data would show what data would show, and for
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: me to tell her to say something when my own
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: star is going to show something different just doesn't make
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: any sense. So you know, I can't answer that. What
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: my recollection is is that I told Shelley that law unfortunately,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: would be talking to her. We may have discussed how
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: long I was there at that point in time. If
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: I thought I was there forty five minutes, I may
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: have said I was here forty five minutes. But you
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: know I can't tell you. Okay, So Shelley's also a
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: big fat liar. Guess who else is lying his cell time?
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut fifteen. Remember those seventy
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: three calls that were deleted. Well, that's a big out
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: lie to the cell phone is lying, or maybe it's
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: the phone company. Maybe it's a Verizon. That's the big
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: fat liar. Take a listen to our cut fifteen. Do
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: you know why so many phone calls were missing from
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: the log around this relevant time period when law enforcement
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: downloaded your phone on June tenth? From my phone? Yeah, no,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I don't. Did you delete them, mister Murdoch, Not intentionally.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Just around the time of June seventh, all these calls
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: were missing, but you had nothing to do with that.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Between June seventh and June tenth, No, sir, I did not,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: and I did not delete phone calls from my phone. Mister,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: what is one of the most important things in this
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: whole thing? For me, has been getting this data? Did
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: I believe would exist? Phone calls and phone records would
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: be part of that. I've been in enough civil cases
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: and used phone records enough times to know that you
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: delete a phone call from your phone, it doesn't disappear.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: So I can tell you this jury and everybody who's
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: listening that I did not intentionally delete phone calls from
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: my phone. Are you talking to me Murdague? Because I'm
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: listening and I don't believe you. I guess your cell
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: phone's lying. Okay. Ronnie Rector, high profile lawyer that's representing
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: the Saddlefield family and other victims of Alex Murdogue. Don't
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: you just love it when the defendant starts believing everybody
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: else is lying he's the only one telling the truth. Yeah,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I mean there's another one too. Genie Secondary, of the
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: firm's bookkeeper, light as well when she described the confrontation
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: to the firm over. Oh yes, hold on, I'm going
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: to make a flow chart here. Jennie's Secondary, that's right.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: And you know who else? The housekeeper that gathered the
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: close up that couldn't find his shirt, So you've got Blanca. Yes,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: thank you. Christine Good Memory Blanca, the housekeeper, Jenny Seconder,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: the cell phone and the cell phone company, Shelley and
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Miss Marian Proctor. They're all liars. Yeah, they're all liars
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: in a credibility case where Alex is the ultimate boy
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: who cried wolf and he desperately needs the town now
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: to believe that this time he's telling the truth, and
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: to go back to the financial crimesis for a second,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: it's not it's not just that he stole the money,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: but a he stole it by deceit, b and every
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: one of their circumstances. He's the guy that only admits
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: the truth when you've got two shoulders pinned to the
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: mat for a ten count, and then he rolls to
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: the next one. And it's the fact that he stole
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: the money is bad enough, but the people he stole
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: it from make him a monster. And so what we
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: know about monsters is that they're scary and they do
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: unpredictable things. So if he would steal the money from
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Gloria Sadderfield's family, this is the woman that raised his
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: children who died literally on his front steps, and he
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: saw that as a profit opportunity and left her children destitute.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: If you would steal from that person. It's not just
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: that you're a thief or a liar. You are a monster.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: And so if you would do that, what else are
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: you capable of doing? Now? Was a Centerfield's son who
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I think is learning challenged. I'm not sure, but I
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: think he is. Wasn't hey living and a mobile home?
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: And hey, I've got no problem with a mobile home.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: My great grandma lived in one. He was going to
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: get that foreclosed on, and even knowing that farlock still
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: took his money and all of it. Yes, he was
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: living in a mobile home with his mother, who's now deceased.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: The bank forecloses on the mobile home. He's a vulnerable adult,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: he's displaced and homeless. There were four point three million
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: dollars was recovered. Any money for that young man would
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: have changed that the arc of his life, and Alex
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: took every dime. Well, you know, there's really nowhere for
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: me to go from right there, But everybody on the
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: pal I want you to hear something that Christine and
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: I cooked up. I cut her off at about forty seconds.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Here is Alex Murdog's go to when he's in a
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: tight bind, when he's got his reread and a sling
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom roll at Christine. Now, I don't remember
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: doing that. I don't believe that I've ever had one
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: of those. I don't know a single thing about that,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: not that I remember. I don't. I certainly don't recall,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: mister Waters. If I did, I should don't recall it.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: I don't specifically remember doing that. I don't remember taking
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: the oath. I have no idea. I don't know. I
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I don't know, but I
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: don't believe so. But I really don't know. I don't
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: remember having that. I don't know. You don't remember that.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I don't remember that, No, sir, I don't know. I
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: don't have a specific memory of that. But I can't
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: say I don't remember it. I don't even recall this,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: mister Waters, Chris saying you have to add volunteer to
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: that police okay, because there's just so many you know,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: to Susan Constantine, we heard Murdog puffing himself up talking about, Hey,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I've tried a lot of cases, and I've been a
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: civil attorney for a long time. Will me darn if
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: I'm going to hire a lawyer that forgets as much
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: as this guy does. Yeah, you know, you picked up
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: what I had written down and I love it and
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: I need to have this piece for what I'm doing
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: a training class because this is just priceless. So first
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: of all, it starts with it's not intentional. So what
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: he's basically saying is he knows that they were omitted
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: or they were removed, but it wasn't. It was like
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: a mishap. Then he goes on to attack the accuser.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: These are all right hearings. He attacks the attorney, then
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: he uses the qualifier I'm the attorney, right, So then
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: he goes through his years of education. Then he finishes
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: with the collaboration, right, So he needs the other people
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: to other people, He needs a collaboration that what he
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: had said to the jury. So when you look at these,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: there's all these qualifiers that he uses. But the reason
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: I can't recall to my recollection, these are all classic
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: one on one deception verbal indicators, and he's using them all.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: That's what it's so mind blowing to me is that
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: he should know this. But this goes to show you,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: even someone as narcissistic as he has, every liar is
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: going to trip up and he has blown it. It's
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: perfect as prices. Please give me that clip. It's great. Okay,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: it's all yours, but I insist that we get to
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: add on part two overnight. To Jeff Gentry, You've been
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: in a lot of courtrooms, wearing a lot of different
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: hacks as experts. What do he make Would you ever
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: put an expert on the stand that kept saying I
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know, I don't recall, I'm not
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: sure about that, over and over and over. No, it's
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: amazing that his attorneys allow him to keep making those answers.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Funny story, I was listening to the trial and my
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: eleven year old daughter walked by and she goes, Oh,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: that guy looks totally guilty, just the way he's acting,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: the way he's responding. And she goes, watch she even quoted.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: She goes, I bet you he's gonna say next, well,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: I don't really know about that, And sure enough he did. So, yeah,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: he's not answering things. Well, well, here's a problem for
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdogu. Another problem for Alex murdog He is trying
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: to lie up against technical data. Data doesn't lie. It
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: can be misinterpreted, but it does not lie including how
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: many steps he was taking. Oh yes, down to the
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: number of steps. Take a listen to our cut fourteen
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: waters questing Murdogue on steps, What were you doing? Run
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: on a treadmill? Listen. Both Maggie and Paul's phones lock
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: for the final time around eight forty nine. That's what
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: the data shows. After that, you agree that Maggie's phone
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: around eight fifty three shows some steps being taken. It's
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: what the data shows, Yes, sir, data don't shows carrying. Ever,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: that's what it chose. Is that correct? That is correct?
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: From nine out two to nine oh six, your phone
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: finally comes to life and starts showing a lot of steps.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: I do agree with that. What were you doing? I
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: was getting ready to go to my mom's house, getting
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: ready to go. I thought to take a shower already.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: You were just laying down on the couch. What all
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: you need to do to get ready to go to
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: your mom's house? I don't know. I can't tell you
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: exactly what I was doing. And that's far more steps
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: in a shorter time period than anytime the prior, as
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: you've seen from the testimony in this case. So what
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: were you so busy doing? Get on a trademail back
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Not I didn't get on a treadmill dragging place. No
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't jog, No, sir, I did not do jumping.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Yet I know what I wasn't doing, mister Waters. Okay,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: So it's really hard to lie in the face of
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: technical data shown by your phone, by your car, by
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Maggie and Poll's fill phones, by GPS data. It's really
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: hard to argue with that. So let me ask you,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Ronnie Richter, you're the trial strategist. What can he do now?
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: And I don't expect cross example in anytime soon? Oh no,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: this well is deep, So Craydon's going to be here
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: for quite some time. What can Alex do now? Not
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: a lot. He's kind of pinned himself in the corner here.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: And although he says, look, I'm a lawyer, I've used
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: cell phone data before that this is not the data
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: that we typically recover. Yeah, we get call loogues and
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: things like that, but there is no way he appreciated
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: the depth of the data that's available through on Star,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: or that that little supercomputer in your hand was tracking
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: that closely all of your movements. Again, you get a
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: circumstance where he had given several accounts to the police.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Then he gets the data dump from the state and
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: he sees what the evidence really looks like, and he
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: has a hard time backing into his story. What are
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: you doing in the house for two hundred and sixty
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: nine steps and that very critical window of time? How
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: do you not recall that these are huge problems for
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Alex And again it speaks to the reason why you
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: don't take the stand is he is tying his own
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: rope and walking himself to the gallow the more he talks,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: and at one point he's referring to what he's said
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: in that initial interview in the cruiser, and he said
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: words to the effect, yeah, I'm married to that. I
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: am wed to that. Yeah he is, He's wed to
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: those statements. Can't get rid of him, guys, I'm hearing
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: him my era. Everyone is heading back into the courtroom. Well,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: let's see what happens next. Please stay with us, goodbye, everybody,