Latest / Pathological Positivity / Masculinity: Blessing or Curse? – with TR Coverson – Episode #693
Transcript
- This is Live on Purpose Radio, episode 693, Masculinity, Blessing or Curse? With T. R. Culberson. Now is the only time to create and live the life you love. I'm doctor Paul Jenkins, the positivity psychologist. My job is to connect you to powerful positive psychology principles that immediately upgrade your relationships, business, and mental health. Are you ready? Let's jump in. Hello, and welcome back to Live on Purpose Radio. This is doctor Paul Leshrink who expands your life with another episode of Live On Purpose Radio. Joining me on the mic today is a former pastor, a speaker, a grandfather, and a teller of truth. This is Doctor. Coverson. Welcome, Doctor. Welcome. It's my joy to be here, and and I wanna have you talk to my wife and have you tell her all of those great things you just said. All those things I just mentioned, she needs to know. Well, and hopefully she's a listener to Live On Purpose Radio, at least for this episode. Unfortunately. Doctor, I love having conversations with people who have a little life experience under their belt. And I'm not saying you're old. I'm not gonna say that, but you've been around for a while and you've noticed some things. I had the honor, the privilege of being a guest on your podcast recently, which carries the same title as this episode, Masculinity, Blessing or Curse? And you've been unpacking this for a while. You've been looking into it because you've been around long enough now to notice that there have been some changes, some trends in the way we view masculinity. And I... As I've thought about our interview today, TR, I was, acknowledging within my own experience that I've seen that there are some aspects of masculinity, I'll just put that in air quotes, that have served us well over the years. And there are other aspects of it that maybe not so much. Mhmm. And a more expansive view might be more helpful. Right. From your experience, t r, I would love to hear some of your observations, maybe about both. What are some elements of masculinity that you think are worth preserving or maybe reintroducing to the current generation of of young boys who are growing up in a world where the definitions may have changed. Right. And and maybe what are some of the elements that are not so helpful? And maybe we could start with that one, TR. What have you noticed in in our understanding of masculinity or ways we've viewed it that have not been quite so helpful? What have you noticed in that? Well, that's a great launching pad. I... You were kind enough to not include my age. I'm not I'm not opposed to getting older. I mean, because I I understand what the alternative is. I think we have earned whatever the number is. Right? Yes. But I'm 70. 70. Yeah. I'm 70. And had a chance to... You're right. Experience a part of... Some parts of life that you experienced just because you've gone through it. You talk about those things that we may want to shed. Growing us, I think it was just the air of the period that men were not emotionally involved with family. For example, I know my dad loved me. I know that because in retrospect, I see what he has done and what he was doing and all of that. It was never something that he said, though. Those words never came out of his mouth. And I don't think that it was something that was unique to him. I think it was more common to the generation and culture of that time. In fact, even if a wife had asked... My mother had asked that question, is it a movie? Do you love me? What what movie is that? Oh, I'm thinking Fiddler on the Roof. Yes. That's it. Fiddler on the Roof. Do you love me? What? The answer to that question is more often than not, literally, there's a roof over your head, isn't there? There's food on the table, isn't there? What does that say? Look at these physical manifestations of what I might consider to be love. Exactly. And and so it was not a common thing that men would verbalize, not verbalize, and sometimes not even share a hug or an embrace. It was simply not something that you would do. I was telling you about at one men's conference that I've gone to, there was a senior guy. He's senior to me at the time. He's probably my age now when he said this. He was a star athlete growing up. Football, Scott... I mean, in middle school, high school, later college, very, very good outstanding football player. Mhmm. But his dad never went to any of the games. Middle school, high school, college. He received a number of trophies written up in the newspaper a lot, but dad was never there. Right. Dad's posture was all of that hugging would make him soft. So he refrained from any of those... Any of the accolades that he might have given to his son or the embrace, the cheering on, all of those things. None of that. Don't want to make him soft. Now as sad as that story is, over time, dad passed away. Son grows up, he goes away, gets married, etcetera, etcetera. When dad dies, mom and son now have in their possession a key to the trunk. Dad was military. So the the foot locker, most military men in The Philippines has this foot locker at the at the foot of the bed. Mhmm. There's a key to this foot locker that no one was ever allowed to go into during his lifetime. Now that dad has passed away, we get to open the trunk. Right. In that trunk was every newspaper article that his son had ever been a part of. All of the photos, all of the pictures, everything that Sun had ever done Was all there. Is now in that trunk. Dad, because of the culture that he was born and raised in, was not free to be transparent, emotional, etcetera. Not to say that he didn't have those because the Trump demonstrate that he does have those emotions. But they were not something that he could put on display for fear of, in his mind, making his son soft or the culture perceiving it as something. I don't know, there's a word that you used to be able to use that you dare not say now, that s word. And we're very... The phobias about that was simply something that's there. Now, that's one thing Yeah. That we have to be able to put away from. And myself, now I have, my first two kids were girls. So I'm a girl dad. Mhmm. My third child was a son. And it is common that I just made up my mind, we're gonna break that mold, and I have to reaffirm my son. And I say to him often, I love you, son. Because those affirmations are important to that son, particularly if you're gonna gain his respect and you ultimately one day want to be able to have an open dialogue with him about life. Because there will be Yes. That he'll go through that, you know, some of the mistakes that I've made, I don't intend to have him make those same mistakes. So if we are open enough, we can have those conversations, and I can help to tweak some of the things or at least offer some advice. He may do what he chooses to do, but he... At least we have that open dialogue to be able to have that conversation. Yes. I'm hearing in this, TR, something that I've observed as well. And I think there are cultural or traditional or or just practiced habits that may have attached to masculinity this this need to keep it private. You... Whatever you feel emotionally, you bottle that up, you keep it in that locked foot locker, and and you don't express it or feel it or share it with those who are close to you. In fact, for many guys, particularly my age category, the baby boomer category, you actually taught that Suck it up. Man, that's that's a phrase that has been to me and don't cry. In fact, one of, I'm a I'm a Motown man. The... I think it was one... I think it's a temptation song. Now I heard a crying man is half a man with no sense of pride. Ain't too proud to be. That's the song. That's that's the words in the song. I've heard a crying man is half a man with no sense of pride. And that is kind of the mantra that permeated the culture. So suck it up, man up, men don't cry. I've heard grown men on their way to a funeral of a loved one say to their family. Now don't cry because we we wanna be strong in the face of the people at this at this funeral. So people were taught, and it was a part of this discussion of masculinity, of being strong, that you did not shed a tear. And that was just kinda what happened. So that's something maybe we could let go of. Well, absolutely. Absolutely. But but we have to learn that. Well, and I think part of that too comes from, and I've shared this with you also, that I've lost two friends to suicide. Yes. And suicide is very prominent in our culture. Scott Galloway, who is another gentleman that speaks a lot on, men, men development, mentorship, etcetera, says Mhmm. I think it's if you go into a mortuary and there are five bodies there who died of suicide, three of them are men. I would say at least. Yeah. So it is a prominent attack on manhood or men because we do bottle it up. I mean, there's so much dust that you can sweep under the rug before... After a while, it becomes very noticeable, and there's a mountain in the carpet. And if we're holding it in, holding it in, then sooner or later, it's gonna attack attack you here. Right. I said to you the other day when we were doing our, we... We're doing double dutch then. We start... We tried to start doing... Anyway, When you... I asked the question. I called the second friend that died. I called his widow, not widow, because at the time, I did not know how he died. I heard that he had passed away, did not know how he died. I assumed that it was a car accident. He's in his mid late forties. Good hell from what I knew. Yeah. Wife, two beautiful children, two door... Daughters. And as I was trying to console her, offering my condolences, she's ultimately gave her truth that it was death by suicide. Yes. Wow. You know, I was so taken off That is hard. By that. I Yeah. I I... You know, because... Look. We knew each other's favorite sports team. Right? Mhmm. We talked about the sports team. We... Well, that's okay to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. We we even had... There was a nursing home that we went to monthly where we went there, was part of a Toastmaster group. We went there, the group of us, to cheer up the people who... The residents there. In a convalescent home. Yeah. So we talked, we were friends. And now here is a guy that in my mind, we were friends. But now I ask a very heavy question. Were we friends? Mhmm. Were we friends or was this just a unique bromance? You know, we can kick it around a bit. Because if we were friends, why couldn't I know? Right. Why couldn't I be invited into this cocoon where you are treasuring these challenges that you can't cope with alone. Why can't I come? But on the other hand, it's something that has been conditioned us particularly bold. Right. Because... Well... And I'll go this far. The first friend of mine that took his own life was a college roommate. We, in fact, fraternity brothers who pledged together, etcetera, we, in fact, were godfather to each other's kids. Oh, wow. He took his life when his his oldest son is six at that time, youngest son, four. Oh, wow. So I'm godfather to his boys. Mhmm. Now Curtis junior is now 43. Mhmm. And Curtis, I had him on my show couple of... Three, four weeks ago. Oh. Curtis... Well, Curtis is Superman in my eyes because Curtis, he lost his father by suicide in... At age six. Wow. And this is... Wow. In age 13, 14, his younger brother killed his mother Oh. In the same house that his dad took his life. Oh, wow. He later married, and his wife committed suicide. Yeah. Curtis is... She is. She is. Oh my gosh. Curtis, next year, next January will retire from the marines. Wow. So I I go, wow, man. You're you're you're bulletproof. All of the emotional baggage that you had to carry. That's heavy. Yes. Yes. That's, you know, any one of those things is something that you... Many people don't come come back from. Right. Any one of them. Any one of them. I asked him, I had him on my show a few weeks ago, and he's... I said, well, how do you deal with this issue of you're in the marines because marines, you know, you're the first one to hit land. You're you're you're in the battle. Right. Storming the beach. Yes. You're the one. How do you maintain because we've talked about this need for intimacy because you're hurting. I mean... And Curtis, again, he's lost his father. He's lost his mother at the hands of his brother and then his wife. How do you portray strength with all of these demons are going on inside? And his expression was, yes, there are there's a small circle of friends that you share with. And I'll even use this to bleed on. I'm a... Meaning that that emotional... Yeah. It's bleeding. Bleeding. That vulnerability. And there's a small circle of the... Because... Yeah. Because if you are a leader, you have to be able to portray this image of strength. Yeah. Because it's necessary to create confidence in the hearts and minds of those who are following you. Because if you are not leading in a position of strength, then they will embrace what they perceive as weakness. Now, whether it is or not, their perception is that it's it's weakness. I think that's powerful because, I'll let you get in here. Let me say this one. Yeah. This is this is one of those preacher points you gotta bring up. Preach it. This is a preacher point. God made sun, moon, stars, water, called fish out of the water, animals, all these things, then created man on the, sixth day. At the end of each day, he says, and that's good and that's good, and that's good. When he made man, he says, and that's very good. But then the first negative in the Bible is it's not good for man to be alone. Right. That's not good. That's not good. As we try to walk this path alone Yeah. There are some things in our mind, the things that life will pressure us with. And what you share with us on on your podcast, this idea, it is what it is, but how you perceive it, your creativity, your imagination, you have to create those triggers. And oftentimes, it's necessary to have someone to share that with you Right. So that you can come out of your own prison and be able to get out of this. So that close friends is what he's he's fostering, to be able to walk through it. And. You know, I was I was going to say a moment ago, TR, that I think we have made some progress. Yes. And and you have acknowledged this as well that there has been some movement. And as as we come to the conclusion of our conversation today, I would invite you to share from your experience, from your perspective, Doctor, what makes you the most optimistic or hopeful about this topic of masculinity as you look at what's working, what we're doing well that maybe we want to reinforce and do a little more of? What have you noticed there? We're growing. We're evolving. We've seen some of the errors of the past. One of the things that... Another negative is the toxic masculinity. In other words, you feel that your masculinity is based on how well you can abuse a woman and those kinds of things. And Yeah. It's it's just ugly. And because it's reached those kinds of proportions, the next generation comes along and says, I don't wanna do that. Right. I'm I'm not doing that. I mean, I watched it. I am the recipient of those kinds of of absences, even though the person... The the father may physically be there, but he was absent. He was dips distant. I don't wanna be that. So modern day man is saying, no. I have no intimidation about wearing pink. Yes. Or eating quiche. Yeah. Or eating quiche or... All of those things. So we have... Because... It is so powerful that God created us so that we don't live forever on this planet. Because the necessity of having us die is a blessing. Mhmm. Because if we didn't die, we'd never give up power. Mhmm. If you don't believe it, look at Congress. They never give up power. No change. So you have to be able to relinquish the power to allow someone to say, I've received the impact and the effects of that generation. I know the pain of it. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. T r, from from that perspective, what do you wish for your your son, your grandsons, your great grandsons to realize about themselves and their masculinity? What do you hope they really connect to? Yeah. I think the gift of being a father is... I I cannot... It cannot be overstated. And not to diminish the impact of mothers. Mhmm. But the idea of sharing with your son how to be a responsible man, how to be a man of character, how to take on the responsibilities of life with integrity, How to be honest enough with yourself that you trust you, and therefore, you can trust other people. Love is not something that diminishes your manhood. If we follow the ultimate example of manhood is Jesus Christ, he he is one that endured all of the suffering, all of the pain, all... Anything that you think you have gone through that would make you strong. No athlete had endured what Jesus went through. And yet it was all about love. I love you so much that I'm willing to do this, this, this. And if we are doing that effectively, then we create a culture that just embraces what God intended us to be and do. That's how we become real men. Yes. Yes. That's real men. That's real men. Well, t r, thank you. I mean, every every conversation I have with you, the word wisdom comes to my mind. I shared with a a recent guest that wisdom is knowledge combined with experience. Yeah. Yeah. And it it carries a truth to it that, I think permeates the generations. Sure. And I appreciate your willingness to share some of that with us today. Thank you, sir. I am so excited about being on your show, excited about what you shared on mine. It's all of the the wisdom that you share. And listen, I've passed on. I've given you credit for it. The two types of people, those that are humble and those that will be. Those that are about to be. That's right. I love that. Well, hopefully, dear listener, you have been inspired as I have today from this conversation with the incomparable, T. R. Coverson. Thank you, T. R. For being here. For those of you who are listening, you've heard it. It's time to apply it. Let's go live on purpose. Did you get what you came for? Give yourself the gift of taking real action on what you realized today. Please share this episode with someone you know would value it, and leave us a rating too. It's time now to live on purpose.