Latest / Foul Territory / Jayson Stark talks D’Backs & Phillies at deadline, Moving trade date back, Future of ABS challenges

Transcript

Jayson Stark talks D’Backs & Phillies at deadline, Moving trade date back, Future of ABS challenges · Foul Territory

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: After one hundred and ten games. What your team is
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: and what your odds are, and what you should do
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: for now and for down the road.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Jason Stark from the Athletic joining us right now. Jason,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: it's so great to see you. Thank you for joining us.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: How are you and how was your All Star coverage?
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm great, guys, happy second half to you. Saw Eric Scott,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I saw your father. Never did lay eyes on you,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: but had a great time in Atlanta. The swing off
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: was just one of those moments where I was so
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: glad I was in the park with a computer I
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: write about that.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you about that, Jason, because you've
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: done a lot of reporting over the years on changes
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: and the evolution of rules within the league. Do you
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: think that we'll see more of this now? I'm not
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: even necessarily saying regular season, but can they even figure
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: out a way to incorporate this into more All Star
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Games if it doesn't involve extra innings? What are your thoughts?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: What have you seen?
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Wait, just explain to me what you're conjecturing here. That
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: there would be home run derby busting out in the
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: middle of regulation before we even got text trainings.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: So here was one thing I was coming up with yesterday.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Either two options. Either you play the game and then
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: at the end of the game you do a derby
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: and if let's say the AL was winning six to two,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: each team gets three swings. The AL has a four
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: run lead, so they get four bonus swings. Or mid
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: game you do a derby and that can lead to
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: an extra run with a three swing swing off. It's
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: an exhibition game, Okay. We debated a lot yesterday, Jason
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: about if we would ever see it in a regular
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: season game, maybe from the twelfth inning on. What are
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: your thoughts on that? And do you think that messing
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: with the All Star Game is too much or it's
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: okay because it's an exhibition.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's do these one thing at a time. First off,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I love this. It was so much fun. Every once
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: in a while, you know, given the stuff I write
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: about all the time, when something like this breaks out,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I almost feel like I somehow willed it to happen,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Just why I could write
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: about it. It was so entertaining and the way the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: crowd got into it and those players got into it.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: It was awesome for the All Star Game. I am
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: not a proponent of doing this in any other context.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: But one thing I couldn't help but think about was
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: all the powers that be in the sport were in
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the park watching that and seeing how people reacted, hearing
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: the buzz, just watching the reaction to those Kyle Schwerber
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: bombs and thinking they're gonna be tempted to do this.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know, guys, how do you feel about the
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: idea that the last pitch of a game that counts
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: would be thrown by a coach. I'm not there yet, Jason.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Sorry that Scott just wasted your time with what he
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: was saying, because I've tried to stop him. They try
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: to stop me when I say just as nine things,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: and this is my chance to just stop Scott from
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: constantly talking about this. But no, it's not. We don't
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: want coaches on the field like the game's played for players.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: It was so awesome. I completely agree with you that
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: it was awesome. But from that game, besides that, what
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: is the storyline that is going to bleed into the
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: second half from the All Star Game? Because obviously everyone's like, oh,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Kyle Raley's going to be so tired because he played
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: in the home run derby in the game and all
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: of stuff. But what do you feel like is going
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: to bleed into the second half as we left the
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: All Star Game in.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Atlanta, something from the game besides that, that's going to
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: be the thing we talk about most. I think, I mean,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I've been honestly thinking about what does this do for
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber's trip to free agency. I think he was
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: going to get paid, even though there's really no precedent
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I think for a contract for a guy who fits
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: his profile. But you saw it, you. I mean, I
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: talked to players in that National League clubhouse about that
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: guy afterwards, and just hearing Kyle Staras say that guy's
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: a legend and this just made him more of a legend.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Does this help Kyle Schwarber's trip to free agency? Because
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna vote yes, understandably.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: So. The guy's an absolute beast. He's been doing it
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: for years. My question to you is I'm jumping to
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: a team here. The Arizona Diamondbacks have been okay the
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: past couple of years, made it to the playoffs, almost
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: made a run, you know, and won the whole thing.
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: And now they're in a stance here are they going
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: to be sellers, are they not? They got a couple
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: of pieces they can get rid of. In my opinion,
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: I feel like they should be sellers. Talk to me
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: a little bit about the Diamondbacks with this trade deadline coming.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Up, tad. From what I'm hearing, they are set up
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: to sell. They're clearly the team to watch here these
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: next two weeks, and just think of how the planets
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: are lining up. They have the perfect excuse to sell,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: don't they. They can just stand there and say, we
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: loved our team, we couldn't stay healthy. We're in a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: tough division, so we're going to trade these guys and
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: then try to sign them all again as free agents.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: And I honestly think that's what's gonna happen. So I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: don't know, isn't there a world where au Haneo and
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Josh Nayler become the two best bats traded? I think so.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if they deal both Merrill Kelly
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and Zach Gallan, But I mean, what are the odds
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: whichever one of those two they do sign becomes the
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: best starting pitcher traded. I think they're really high that
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: that's a team that I think now controls the deadline.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: They're perfectly positioned and they know it.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: But is this team they're not looking to rebuild, They're
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: not even looking to really necessarily build their farm system.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: So this might be my favorite team because they could
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: make a baseball trade where they're like, hey, we'll take
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: your you know, we'll take your already established big leaguer
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: with one year of time for our rental that we have.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Is there a team that they match up the best
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: in that type of trade?
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think they match up with about ten teams.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: You know. They look, they've got the walk year All Stars,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: you know, so the value of rent of players has
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: been falling in this market. But for them to get
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: one young piece of the puzzle, I mean, that fits
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: infinite number of teams, you know. I don't again, I
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: don't know if how many teams that are in a
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: race want to trade a player who's actually on their
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: big league roster right now. But they're going to do fine,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I think. And you know what, you just described a
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: team looking to make trades that are good baseball trades
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that set them up to compete again next year. That
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: describes the Diamondbacks perfectly for me.
• 7:35
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• 7:42
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• 7:45
  Speaker 2: todd father studio and to my house and to your house.
• 7:50
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• 7:51
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• 7:56
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• 7:57
  Speaker 3: To The confidence part is what I stick with because
• 7:59
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• 8:02
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• 8:05
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• 8:29
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• 8:32
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• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Hey Jason, I want to ask you about the trade
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: deadline in general. Your colleague got the Athletic and our
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: buddy on this show. Jim Bowden recently put out an
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: article saying that he thinks the trade deadline should be
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: pushed back a bit after years now of a case study,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: with the third wildcard team added and more teams with
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: a decent percentage of making the playoffs. Are you okay
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: with where we're at or do you feel like we're
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: hurting ourselves as a game by preventing trades from happening
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: because too many teams are still on the fence, and
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: it would give them a little bit more time after
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: the draft to collect thoughts, right, because it seems like
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: generally most teams are not doing much until after the draft,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: which is three days ago.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Scott, both those things are true, and I agree
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: with Jim to that point. But I think there comes
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: a time when teams need to make a decision about
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: what they are. And I think teams can waffle until
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: August fifteenth just as easily as they can waffle till
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Live thirty first. And when I look at these teams
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: that can't decide, I just think you should understand after
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: one hundred and ten games or whatever it is, what
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: your team is and what your odds are, and what
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: you should do for now and for down the road.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And I just think it's an excuse. I don't know
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: how much it clarifies anything to wait until August fifteenth.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I do think it's an issue the teams that have
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: some big injury after July thirty first have no vehicle
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: to make a trade that gets them a replacement. I
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: would like the sport to think about that, but otherwise
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I like it where it is.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more. I got traded plenty of times
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: on August thirtieth. I'm not a big I'm not a
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: big playoff contributor, but I still think teams need to
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: have that out where they get that August thirtieth deadline
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: back again because big guys get moved. Justin Verlander gets
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: moved during that time.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that Justin Verlander trade is one of
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the biggest, most difference making deals of the last ten years.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: And it happened not in July but in August. And
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: just the all the anecdotes about out what happened that
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: night with the Astros people waiting in a car outside
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: his house right and him running down the stairs so
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: he could sign and approve the deal right before midnight tremendous.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Give me as many tales like that as we can
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: put together.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: I don't know all those stories. I like reading all
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: those stories, but they don't all line up right for me,
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Like like they got the call in by eleven fifty
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: nine and supposedly he's still signed it. Anyway, we don't
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: need to make up stories to be friends, Jason, but
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: I do. I do have to ask you about the Phillies.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Dave Dombrowski is like he is waiting with his hand
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: on the button to trade for somebody. How big of
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: a move or moves is Dave Dombrowski looking to make
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: right now, all the way up until the trade deadline?
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I Eric. I think he has this sense about
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: his team that with the right move or moves, they
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: can win the World Series. That everybody else is beatable
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: their team too, but they have that team that nobody
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: wants to play because of their pitching. Right. And I
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: ran into a guy in Atlanta who has talked to Dave,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and he said he thinks Dave is geared up to
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: do something huge. He's got his prospect chips ready to go,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: and look, his ideal trade is not gonna happen. His
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: ideal trade is the twins for Byron Buxton and Johann Duran.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: That that's not gonna happen. The Twins aren't gonna do that.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: But that's what I think David do in an ideal world.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Give up a ton of prospects for a big bat,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a huge arm, and two guys he can control beyond
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: this year.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: Okay, so let's go to this. So ABS challenge was
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: used in the All Star Game. I thought that was
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: pretty cool. You saw guys like Wilson understand his strike zone.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: You saw men Machado actually strike out. Do you think
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: this is a lock for next year?
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I do. It really sounds that way, and you know
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I hear I've heard you guys talk about it. I've
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: thought about it a lot, mister rule change. You know,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I love using technology to make the sport better, but
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I'm just not sold that introducing a challenge system without
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: some sort of buffer zone makes sense. I know Rob
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Manford shot that down when I asked him that about
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: in the Baseball Writers meeting the other day. But do
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: you guys want a game decided by a call overturned
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: on a pitch one one hundredth of an inch outside
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Because I'm not comfortable with that. I'm really not.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Well, you're not comfortable with it? So then shrink the
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: strike zone, and then when it hits the edge, it's
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: a strike. Like Jason, it's a strike. One of an
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: inch off is a ball on. It's a strike. Now
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: if you can tell me that it's not, if you
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: can tell me that it's not that accurate, like the
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: distance for the home runs and the home run derby,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: like they just made up. They wanted right and they
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: wanted cal Raley to move on. But to me, there's
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: no there's no buffer zone. We don't need a buffer zone.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: The strike zone is what they made it, and if
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: it's too big, make it smaller. But if it hits
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: that smaller strike zone, it is a strike.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I think I can tell you that we
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: know that Major League Baseball acknowledged to the players on
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the Competition Committee earlier this year that there is a
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: margin for err with abs of up to half an
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: inch half an inch. And so when you've got that
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: much wiggle room, that much margin for error, how does
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: it not make sense to have some kind of buffer zone.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of different ways to
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: introduce that, But like I know that you have to
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: draw the line somewhere between what's a ball and what's
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: a strike? I get it, but I just don't want
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: with two outs in the ninth the picture to pop
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the mit, the umpire to call strike three, and then
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: it's challenged and the game changes based on a call
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: that technologically may or may not be correct. I also
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: wonder about whether the up down portion of ABS is
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: technologically correct. I know that they they've experimented with a
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: lot of different permutations of this, but there's no surefire
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: way to especially gauge height, and so they're doing it
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: by percentage of height. And this like a guy who
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: is up there in a crouch, his strike zone is
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: not the same as the guy who's upright, but his
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: ABS strike zone is the same. And so I look,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: these are things that I've got to work through in
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: my brain. And you know, you heard Tony Clark the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: other day say the Union feels like there needs to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: be a buffer zone. They're gonna clash on this, but
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Rob Manford MLB, they hold the cards, so whatever they
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: decide is what's going to happen.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: But isn't there gamesmanship in this? Isn't there gamesmanship in
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: the fact that when you go into Texas, AH, the
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: ABS is a little bit wider. Oh, every time we
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: go into Sacramento because their cameras are the lower angle, Like,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: isn't there gamesmanship? Well, why is Jacob Wilson squatting a
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: little bit lower this year? Like there's a gamesmanship to
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: that that. Don't you think teams will be able to
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: work through? Like it's not going to be catastrophic like
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: a Jim Joyce missed out call at first base for
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: a perfect game.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: So you're basically saying that pitchers and catchers and even
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: hitters right have to adjust to the abs strikes zone
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: in a given city, the way that you guys have
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: spent your lives adjusting to umpire strike zones. Is that
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: what you want? Yeah? And I think there's murd in
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: that I can't. Here's my problem, Eric, We're talking about
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the use of technology, and how are you selling it
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: to your fans. You're telling them we don't worry about
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: those egregious calls that humans make because we've now got
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: robots and they're going to get this right. But are
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: we sure about that? And if they don't, there are
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: games riding on it, There are postseasons riding on it,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: there are legacies riding on it. One more thing I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: can't get out of my head. There are wagers, okay
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: on DraftKings riding on it. So if you're going to
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: use this, doesn't it have to be right? Think about it.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Here's the one thing I feel like we can all
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: agree on right now. It's fun at the current setup.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's fun. Two challenges and then you keep
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: them if the yump's wrong. That part I think has
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: resonated well in the minor leagues, in spring training and
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: now from the All Star Game the other day, I
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: didn't hear anybody, and most of my social media browsing
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: saw people be like, oh, that took ten seconds and haha,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: got it wrong on three out of four or four
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: or five whatever it was. Can we agree on that?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun. Like I don't know how much fun
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the umpires think it is. It's fun. I mean the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: wait for the animation to appear in that scoreboard and
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: then sometimes like one of my favorite things in spring
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: training was fans would boo the cartoon. What are they booing?
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: That's fun?
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Though I agree, it's like them always booing the Astros jersey.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Like none of the guys except for Joseel Tuve were
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: on the team, and they said they just boo the jersey,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: so why not boo an animation.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Fans are looking for something to cheer for and looking
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: for something to do, and this is another.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: And that's engagement with the arsenal. That's engagement, his engagement.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I'm more locked into a game if I can say, oh,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: they should challenge that one. That one's off, whether I'm
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: at home or at the ballpark. But yes, to be continued, Jason,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: we'd love to keep the colm going. I'm sure there
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: will be more articles in the Athletic about it. Great
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: to talk to you. Happy second half of the season
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I always enjoyed talking to you guys. Thanks