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Alex Murdaugh Takes a Hit, Judge Bans 'Egg Lady' Juror to Claim Clerk Poisoned Jury · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
0:12
Speaker 2: I can't believe these words are actually coming out of
0:15
Speaker 2: my mouth.
0:16
Speaker 3: Is Alex and Murlaud convicted of the.
0:18
Speaker 2: Double murders of his wife and son going to get
0:23
Speaker 2: a new trial? That's basically having the winner of the
0:29
Speaker 2: Super Bowl turn over his playbook to the other side
0:36
Speaker 2: just before you take to the field.
0:39
Speaker 3: Bad. Not good.
0:41
Speaker 2: The state never wants the defendant to get a new trial.
0:46
Speaker 2: Their entire strategy revealed. It's like the first trial was
0:52
Speaker 2: a dry run for the defense. They find out what
0:55
Speaker 2: they did wrong. For instance, putting Alex from Murlou, that
0:57
Speaker 2: big liar on the stand to fidget and look around
1:03
Speaker 2: the courtroom and blink rapidly and lie through his teeth.
1:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, the jury knew he was like.
1:08
Speaker 2: They would never put him on the stand on a
1:11
Speaker 2: second run, and by doing that may win. Remember in
1:16
Speaker 2: the first trial, the defense team stupidly opened the door
1:23
Speaker 2: to proof of financial crimes. Millions of dollars the double
1:27
Speaker 2: murderer Alex Murdock had stolen from his firm and his clients,
1:32
Speaker 2: including clients that were forever forever immobilized in pain in wheelchairs.
1:41
Speaker 3: He stole their money. Now the jury would never have
1:45
Speaker 3: heard that if the defense had not brought it up
1:49
Speaker 3: first about financial motive as soon as they did, that
1:54
Speaker 3: the state could bring in all that damning evidence about
1:57
Speaker 3: who Alex Mverndaug really is. Think about it, What would happen.
2:02
Speaker 2: If there's a new trial and Merlaue did not take
2:05
Speaker 2: the stand like the wily fox he is, and that
2:08
Speaker 2: financial motive never came in.
2:12
Speaker 3: What else would they do differently? That's just the tip
2:15
Speaker 3: of the iceberg.
2:16
Speaker 2: Of course, all that evidence is true, but on a
2:19
Speaker 2: second trial, the jury may never hear it, and we are.
2:23
Speaker 3: In sheching, inching.
2:27
Speaker 2: Step by step closer to a new trial for Alex Murdoch.
2:34
Speaker 2: I sat through the whole first one. I don't want
2:36
Speaker 2: to do it again. I mean, I see, Grace, this
2:39
Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
2:42
Speaker 2: at Crime Stories and on Serious XM one eleven. Now,
2:47
Speaker 2: as you know, Merlac was just in court. He was
2:51
Speaker 2: in court in the last twenty four hours trying to
2:55
Speaker 2: get a new trial on the back of the Clerk
3:00
Speaker 2: of Courts, Rebecca Hill, who I found to be a
3:05
Speaker 2: reliable and trustworthy, friendly person.
3:10
Speaker 3: Did she say something that's going to merit a new trial? God? Forbid,
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Speaker 3: We're going to find out.
3:15
Speaker 2: But also in the last days, Murdog has been back
3:20
Speaker 2: at the podium in the courtroom, whining and snotting and slobbering.
3:26
Speaker 3: Well, you know what, you listen listen to, Murdog.
3:29
Speaker 4: My wife loved you, and you are absolutely right about
3:35
Speaker 4: everything you said, but you are dead wrong about one thing.
3:40
Speaker 5: And I would never hurt Maggie.
3:43
Speaker 3: And I would never hurt all.
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Speaker 5: And it is important to me that you know that
3:54
Speaker 5: because she did love you, and I hope you know that.
4:02
Speaker 6: I hope you know that. I mean what I said
4:05
Speaker 6: to you today.
4:06
Speaker 3: Does it never end with this guy?
4:08
Speaker 2: How dare he invoke the name of his beautiful, incredible wife,
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Speaker 2: dead wife that he murdered in his effort.
4:18
Speaker 3: To get lenient treatment.
4:19
Speaker 2: I mean, does this guy have any shame at all?
4:25
Speaker 2: I've got an all star panel, but first I need
4:27
Speaker 2: a shrink, and I wouldn't need one now. This double
4:30
Speaker 2: hot tea is not gonna pull me through this. Doctor
4:34
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall joining us a high profile psychoanalyst joining us
4:39
Speaker 2: out of la She's now appearing in the new season
4:42
Speaker 2: of Paris in Love on Peacock.
4:46
Speaker 3: Doctor Bethany Marshall. Does this guy have no shame?
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Speaker 2: You know? He reminds me of right now, another double killer,
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Speaker 2: quadruple killer, probably our quintuple killer.
4:57
Speaker 3: Lori Vallo caled, Mom.
5:00
Speaker 2: She invoked I actually hate to say these words because
5:03
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be a Christian.
5:05
Speaker 3: She actually invoked the name of.
5:07
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ and her dead son that she helped murder.
5:12
Speaker 2: In her bid for a lenient sentence. She told the
5:15
Speaker 2: judge that Christ kneeds. She hadn't done anything wrong, right,
5:20
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna even speak on his path, and that
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Speaker 2: her son I think, didn't she say?
5:25
Speaker 3: Jackie? He came to her in a vision and said, Mom,
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Speaker 3: you didn't do anything wrong. Oh you know what? Yes,
5:31
Speaker 3: Jackie says, yes, I mean yes.
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Speaker 2: Came to her in her jail cell. You're right, Jackie,
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Speaker 2: you know. And now we've gotten Murdog conjuring up the
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Speaker 2: image of Maggie Murdog, his long suffering wife, talking about
5:50
Speaker 2: her trying.
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Speaker 3: To get lenient sentencing. What is with this guy?
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Speaker 7: Inter Namcy. He's a con artist and he will con
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Speaker 7: to the end of his days. And he conned Maggie
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Speaker 7: and to think that he loved her. He conned his
6:02
Speaker 7: law firm into thinking that he was upright and not,
6:05
Speaker 7: you know, put putting all the money into a trust account.
6:08
Speaker 7: Now he's trying to con the judge and trying to
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Speaker 7: conn the jury. You know, he will never stop, you know, sociopathy.
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Speaker 3: Quit using your fancy words.
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Speaker 2: Okay, maybe a trial lawyer, but I'm not a straight
6:23
Speaker 2: What is that speak English woman?
6:26
Speaker 3: What sociopathy?
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Speaker 7: A sociopath is a narcissist on steroids. It's a very
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Speaker 7: amplified version of that. And what we know about sociopaths
6:36
Speaker 7: is that they are parasites. They live off other people.
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Speaker 7: So we can see that and how he, you know,
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Speaker 7: lived off the law firm, but unlawfully of.
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Speaker 2: Course, Doctor Bethony Marshall, do I made to remind you
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Speaker 2: that after prosecuting this long and being on TV for
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Speaker 2: this long, you're going to have to speak to me
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Speaker 2: in soundbites, these long, prolonged explanations. I don't even know
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Speaker 2: what you're saying. What Why is he invoking the name
7:03
Speaker 2: of Matt his wife, Maggie.
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Speaker 7: Murdoch because he's not attached to her.
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Speaker 2: He will use anything in anybody, You know what, doctor
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Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, Let me go to Chris mcdona as well,
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Speaker 2: And no, I'm going to circle back to you because
7:17
Speaker 2: I just had a thought and I certainly don't want
7:20
Speaker 2: to lose one of those. Chris mcdona is joining me,
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Speaker 2: Director Cole Case Foundation, former homicide detective, about three hundred
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Speaker 2: homicides under his belt, host of YouTube channel, the interview
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Speaker 2: room where I found him, Chris, before I go back
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Speaker 2: to doctor Bethany, and I've got a special guest. Jennifer
7:35
Speaker 2: Wood is joining me. She's been on a story from
7:37
Speaker 2: the get Gate, joining us from Fitz News, doctor Michelle Dupree,
7:40
Speaker 2: who is the medical examiner who is all over this case.
7:46
Speaker 2: And Ronnie Richter, partner at Bland Richter, who's about three
7:51
Speaker 2: inches of Alex Murdog's tailpipe. But to Chris mcdona, see
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Speaker 2: this has just started my whole day off wrong as
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Speaker 2: a homicide investigator. You could go into the office. I'm
8:02
Speaker 2: here in the studio with my hot tea. I've got
8:04
Speaker 2: the picture of the twins here. I'm all happy. Then
8:07
Speaker 2: I have to hear Alex Murdock whining and s nodding
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Speaker 2: in court. Guarantee you he wasn't crying when he gunned
8:16
Speaker 2: down Maggie and his son Paul. Right, all he was
8:21
Speaker 2: thinking about was himself. And then you know what, my
8:23
Speaker 2: day is just shot to H double L and I
8:25
Speaker 2: have to hear his whiny voice. Did that happen to you?
8:28
Speaker 2: You go in the I know your wife aka honey.
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Speaker 2: I bet she'd give you a wonderful cup of coffee
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Speaker 2: and a kiss on the ear, and off you go
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Speaker 2: to work. And then you have to read a case
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Speaker 2: file and it's just shot to H double l.
8:41
Speaker 8: You know what, Nancy Wi our model and homicide. When
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Speaker 8: your day enstars begins and with him is everything that
8:50
Speaker 8: he talks about. Murdoch is in the past tense. Here
8:54
Speaker 8: do we ever notice that that she did love me?
8:57
Speaker 9: You know?
8:58
Speaker 8: And every time he gets caught all of the said
9:00
Speaker 8: that becomes present. I'd be fascinated to hear what the
9:04
Speaker 8: doc thinks about why he is always talking in the
9:08
Speaker 8: past ten.
9:09
Speaker 3: That's a really good point.
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Speaker 2: Hold on, Ronnie Richter, I hear your charming is a
9:12
Speaker 2: bit Thank the Lord, because you've been in the courtroom.
9:15
Speaker 2: Mar and I back in the courtroom trying to get
9:18
Speaker 2: a new trial, believe it or not. Hold On, Ronnie,
9:20
Speaker 2: I got to go back to doctor Bethany, Doctor Bethany, again,
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Speaker 2: please dummy down for me.
9:25
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm just a JD. You're the shrink.
9:29
Speaker 2: This guy will stop at nothing, just like Calt. Mom
9:32
Speaker 2: used christ and her dad's son to try to get
9:38
Speaker 2: a lighter sentence, and here he is using Maggie.
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Speaker 7: He thinks he's controlling everybody. He's been in control his
9:45
Speaker 7: whole life. He's been in charge of everybody, or he
9:48
Speaker 7: has the illusion that he's been in charge of everybody,
9:51
Speaker 7: because he's not in charge of anybody right now. But
9:54
Speaker 7: lying and lying that is the way to manipulate other people.
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Speaker 7: But it comes from a that's that other people won't
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Speaker 7: see his bs, that other people think he's great.
10:05
Speaker 2: And not only see it, I can smell it. I
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Speaker 2: can smell it right here in the studio. And when
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Speaker 2: he took the stand, he like emanated the stench of BS.
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Speaker 3: Doctor Bethany. I know that your.
10:16
Speaker 2: Parents or missionaries and you go on mission trips. Have
10:20
Speaker 2: you ever actually smelled bullshit, cow crap in a field?
10:24
Speaker 2: There's nothing like it.
10:25
Speaker 9: All kinds of bush.
10:27
Speaker 3: I'm a million, you know. It's kind of like he
10:31
Speaker 3: reaped Walkie.
10:32
Speaker 2: Hey, you ever seen Charlie Brown in pig Pen always
10:36
Speaker 2: has a cloud of dust around him. There's just a
10:38
Speaker 2: stink around Murdoch everywhere he goes, and he has beautiful outfits.
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Speaker 2: I was looking at his brother who was in court,
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Speaker 2: his son who sat right in front of me. All
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Speaker 2: the family talk about designer clothes. I mean, they looked
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Speaker 2: like they had gone straight to the cature department at Dillards.
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Speaker 3: I mean, that's the only thing I can think of.
11:00
Speaker 2: Or Sacksmith Avenue. They look awesome, and so did he,
11:03
Speaker 2: but he's still stunk.
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Speaker 7: When the beads of sweat are on the person's forehead
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Speaker 7: and snot's coming down their nose and they're sweating, you.
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Speaker 2: Know, we've got to quit saying snot because I told
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Speaker 2: the twins not to say it, and sometimes they sneak
11:14
Speaker 2: and listen to crime stories.
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Speaker 3: Let me go to Ronnie Richter.
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Speaker 2: Hold On, Jennifer Wood, I know you're the one that
11:19
Speaker 2: has actually all the true facts right now, but can
11:23
Speaker 2: I address this to Ronnie Richter Partner Bland Richter Law Firm.
11:27
Speaker 2: They're representing the Stephen Smith family. Another team found dead
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Speaker 2: near Alex Murdau's hunting lodge.
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Speaker 3: Gloria Sadderfield's family.
11:36
Speaker 2: She worked for the Murdog's raising the boys as a nannie,
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Speaker 2: the Pliers sisters. Ronnie, Alex Murdau back in court, could
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Speaker 2: you just explain and in a nutshell, I used to
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Speaker 2: love it to get on the elevators or at the
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Speaker 2: courthouse or in court like an opening statement where the
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Speaker 2: defense attorney, would you know, shoot off a big, long
12:00
Speaker 2: Latin phrase to try to impress the jury.
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Speaker 3: It did the opposite.
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Speaker 2: So please speak English, simple English to me.
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Speaker 3: Okay, Alex Murdoi back in court for a new trial.
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Speaker 6: Why he wants a new trial because he contends that
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Speaker 6: the Clerk of court went into the jury room during
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Speaker 6: the deliberations and said something that changed the outcome of
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Speaker 6: the trial.
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Speaker 3: I like what you just said, simple short.
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Speaker 2: I loved it, and you're right, simply put, you are right,
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Speaker 2: Ronnie Richter. Doctor Michelle Dupree high profile forensic pathologist, medical examiner,
12:36
Speaker 2: former detective, and she actually wrote the book Homicide Investigation
12:40
Speaker 2: Fueld Guide and a recent book which is on Amazon
12:43
Speaker 2: Money Mischief and Murder, The Murdoch Saga, the rest of
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Speaker 2: the story, Doctor Dupre. One of the reasons I'm so
12:50
Speaker 2: angry right now is because, as you know, my fiance
12:56
Speaker 2: was murdered just before a wedding.
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Speaker 3: It changed my life.
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Speaker 2: I didn't even want to live, dropped out of school
13:04
Speaker 2: whilst down to eighty nine pounds, couldn't eat, couldn't think.
13:07
Speaker 2: It was horrible, and I thought, oh, I know it
13:11
Speaker 2: all now about grief and suffering. I didn't know anything
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Speaker 2: until I had the twins, and now I realize what
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Speaker 2: grief and suffering would be. One of the twins or
13:23
Speaker 2: both of them living without one of their parents, me
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Speaker 2: losing one of them.
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Speaker 3: I don't think unless you've lived through it.
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Speaker 2: Going to a murder scene, you have been to many,
13:37
Speaker 2: as you have been McDonough, as you have been Ronnie Richter.
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Speaker 2: The stench of blood, the dried blood, looking at the
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Speaker 2: victims lying there, staring off into space, their bodies at
13:52
Speaker 2: weird angles, just holes, their bodies riddled with holes, gaping wounds,
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Speaker 2: blood all matted in their hair. And you know, Maggie
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Speaker 2: is such a perfect dresser all the time, as she
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Speaker 2: dressed her whole family. I can tell you that like beautifully.
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Speaker 2: They're clothes drenched in blood and then it starts to
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Speaker 2: coagulate and dry and smell.
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Speaker 3: It's terrible.
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Speaker 2: That's what's going through my mind about Maggie and Paul.
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Speaker 3: Did like that.
14:32
Speaker 2: I mean, once you have lived through that and been
14:35
Speaker 2: to those scenes, you never look at a murder the
14:38
Speaker 2: same way again. Until then, it seems like a movie
14:42
Speaker 2: or a made for TV story. But when you go
14:45
Speaker 2: to that scene and you see these people and they're suffering,
14:49
Speaker 2: it's terrible. And to see him get up in that
14:51
Speaker 2: courtroom and call on the name of Maggie to get
14:54
Speaker 2: a lighter sentence just sends me right over the edge.
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Speaker 2: Explain what a real murder as like, much less a
15:01
Speaker 2: double murder, Doctor Dupree.
15:03
Speaker 10: Nancy, you have done an excellent job, and you're absolutely right.
15:06
Speaker 10: It is something that you will never forget. The sites,
15:08
Speaker 10: the smells, the sounds even And you know one thing
15:12
Speaker 10: that I find very interesting, and I've done a lot
15:14
Speaker 10: of research on this, Alex keeps saying that I would
15:18
Speaker 10: never hurt them. I have never found where he said
15:22
Speaker 10: I did.
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Speaker 3: Not hurt them.
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Speaker 10: That just strikes me as something very odd.
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Speaker 2: Now to the latest, and it pains me to say this.
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Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood is joining me director research fitsnews dot com.
15:35
Speaker 2: That's f its news dot com. Jennifer, what is and see,
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Speaker 2: I'm very torn because I befriended Becky Hill during the trial.
15:49
Speaker 2: We spoke during breaks. I needed a phone one day
15:54
Speaker 2: I couldn't get reception. I had to find out something
15:57
Speaker 2: about the twins. Something was happening, and I couldn't find
16:00
Speaker 2: my husband, I couldn't find anybody.
16:02
Speaker 3: I had to. She let me use her phone one day.
16:06
Speaker 2: She could not have been nicer or friendlier, and more importantly,
16:11
Speaker 2: more professional. So I tend not to believe these allegations.
16:18
Speaker 3: But what if she said something in.
16:20
Speaker 2: Passing like, oh, this will be a quick verdict, meaning
16:23
Speaker 2: you know, in jess like it's probably going to be
16:25
Speaker 2: a long verdict. Because I remember coming out of the
16:29
Speaker 2: courtroom right after the closing statements and jury charges, and
16:32
Speaker 2: I called Jackie, who's sitting right here with me right now,
16:34
Speaker 2: because I was there and she was here, and she.
16:37
Speaker 3: Said, well, what's going to happen?
16:38
Speaker 2: I said, oh, we ought to have a verdict about
16:40
Speaker 2: thirty minutes, and we both started laughing because we was
16:42
Speaker 2: not going to be in thirty minutes.
16:45
Speaker 3: So how do I know that's not what she said?
16:47
Speaker 2: I mean, I tend to believe her, But what in
16:51
Speaker 2: the hay is happening, Jennifer Wood.
16:53
Speaker 9: You know, I had the same experience with Becky Hill
16:56
Speaker 9: during the trial and even after the trial. You know,
16:58
Speaker 9: as a journalist, we have to reach out to the
17:00
Speaker 9: cork of Court office frequently for court violins, and she
17:04
Speaker 9: was always she's always been professional, she's always been helpful.
17:08
Speaker 9: So the things that are coming out now are surprising
17:12
Speaker 9: to me. Still in terms of what happened during the trial,
17:17
Speaker 9: I tend to lean where you are where you know,
17:20
Speaker 9: I can see you're seeing something in passing, not something intentional.
17:26
Speaker 9: But it's getting you know, the water is getting muddier
17:28
Speaker 9: the more we find out about stuff that she's done
17:31
Speaker 9: since the trial ended.
17:33
Speaker 3: What do you mean by that?
17:34
Speaker 9: You know, So we've got the allegations of you know,
17:38
Speaker 9: she admitted she plagiarized portions of her book.
17:41
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, tell me about that. What is she alleged
17:43
Speaker 2: to plagiarize? And actually that's not a here and nor
17:46
Speaker 2: there when it comes to a new trial, But what
17:49
Speaker 2: does she allegedly plagiarize?
17:51
Speaker 9: So there are portions of her book that appear to
17:54
Speaker 9: be lifted from an article written during the trial by
17:58
Speaker 9: a BBC author, So you know, you know, if you line.
18:03
Speaker 3: Them both up.
18:04
Speaker 9: It's very clear that you know, it was definitely pulled
18:07
Speaker 9: from that article. She's admitted that she did that in
18:11
Speaker 9: a rush to publish her article or her book, you know,
18:16
Speaker 9: And there's you know, there's allegations, there's ethics investigations going on,
18:20
Speaker 9: and SLED has two ongoing open investigations into her.
18:24
Speaker 2: Well what but what to investigations by South Carolina Law
18:29
Speaker 2: Enforcement Division on banking heel, Yes.
18:31
Speaker 9: But what so the investigations are related to the ethics
18:37
Speaker 9: the ethics violations against her, So you know, the SLED
18:42
Speaker 9: has said, yeah, we do currently have two ongoing investigations
18:45
Speaker 9: into Becky Hill relating to, you know, if she was
18:49
Speaker 9: involved in you know what the wiretapping that her son
18:52
Speaker 9: was indicted for, if she was involved in any wrongdoing.
18:57
Speaker 6: As the clerk of court.
18:59
Speaker 2: It sounds like it's the same thing that the defense
19:02
Speaker 2: is bringing up. And Ronnie Rictor joining me jumping off
19:06
Speaker 2: what Jennifer Wood just said, Guys, Alex MARNAUI back in court,
19:10
Speaker 2: he slunk back in trying to get a new trial.
19:12
Speaker 2: Ronnie Richter, what did her what's her son accused of?
19:17
Speaker 6: Is accused of wire tapping and wire tapping related to
19:23
Speaker 6: intercepting communications about the investigation into her over the jury
19:27
Speaker 6: tampering charging.
19:28
Speaker 3: Okay, hold on, let me go, this is straight.
19:31
Speaker 2: Our number one concern is did Becky Hill, the clerk
19:35
Speaker 2: of Courts, who I found to be a nice person
19:38
Speaker 2: and professional, which is important as it relates to this claim,
19:42
Speaker 2: did she say or do anything to prejudice this jury
19:46
Speaker 2: into a guilty verdict? Now she's being investigated about did
19:53
Speaker 2: she lift sentences from some other article and put them
19:57
Speaker 2: in her book in her haste to publish? That's one thing.
20:01
Speaker 2: And did her son wiretap? When you say wiretap, how
20:05
Speaker 2: did else? How did he allegedly wear tap?
20:07
Speaker 6: I don't know the mechanism, but in South Carolina, you
20:10
Speaker 6: can record a conversation if you're a party two. Apparently
20:13
Speaker 6: he recorded a conversation that he was not a party two.
20:29
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace Jennifer.
20:33
Speaker 2: Would uh you're hearing Ronnie rich her partner at Bland
20:36
Speaker 2: Richter Jennifer. Could it be something as simple and I'm
20:40
Speaker 2: certainly not defending any wrongdoing, but I'm trying to understand
20:43
Speaker 2: what the facts are that he recorded a phone conversation
20:46
Speaker 2: with his phone. Could it be that simple. Is South
20:50
Speaker 2: Carolina two party consent state party?
20:53
Speaker 9: I believe in Ryan, correct me if I'm wrong. Is
20:55
Speaker 9: South Carolina is a one party consent state?
20:59
Speaker 6: Yeah?
21:00
Speaker 9: I do not believe that he was a party to
21:03
Speaker 9: the phone call that he recorded.
21:05
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is now, did he allegedly set up
21:07
Speaker 2: some equipment or was he in the room recording it?
21:10
Speaker 2: Or are you did he put some device on someone's phone?
21:14
Speaker 2: How is it alleged he recorded somebody else's phone call?
21:17
Speaker 2: And this was recording a phone call about the investigation
21:20
Speaker 2: into his own mother. How is it alleged he did
21:23
Speaker 2: that the mechanism.
21:24
Speaker 9: You know, they did not give did not give details,
21:28
Speaker 9: or the Fourteenth Circuit ulthor did not give details in
21:32
Speaker 9: their indictments. So that's all just what we're hearing from
21:36
Speaker 9: our sources.
21:36
Speaker 2: So it could be anything from planning a bug in
21:40
Speaker 2: somebody's room, to be in the room when a call
21:43
Speaker 2: was going on and recording it.
21:45
Speaker 3: All right, So we don't know what it is yet. Now,
21:49
Speaker 3: who would.
21:50
Speaker 2: Not be hard pressed to record a conversation about someone
21:53
Speaker 2: investigating your mother? Okay, I'm going to take the fifth
21:56
Speaker 2: on that because I would do a lot to help
21:58
Speaker 2: my mother said, that's a whole other can of worms.
22:02
Speaker 2: And I can't believe Ronnie Richter you even brought that up.
22:05
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, it was Lee. So let's get back to
22:08
Speaker 2: Alex Murnock, the double killer, and not backy you'lls son
22:12
Speaker 2: recording a conversation about somebody investigating his mother. Let's get
22:16
Speaker 2: down to Alex Murdoch, who needs to stay behind bars.
22:21
Speaker 2: Take a listen to Sidney's Sumner Crime online.
22:23
Speaker 11: Alex Murdall's hearings will be held in open court. Court
22:26
Speaker 11: controlled television cameras will be allowed, but they cannot focus
22:30
Speaker 11: on the faces of testifying jurs The jurors will be
22:33
Speaker 11: referred to by their juror numbers, not their names. The
22:36
Speaker 11: hearing will determine whether Murdoll will be granted a new
22:39
Speaker 11: murder trial after his attorneys alleged jury tampering by Culton
22:43
Speaker 11: County Clerk of Court Rebecca Becky Hill. During a status hearing,
22:47
Speaker 11: Murdall's attorneys proposed a list of witnesses who should testify
22:51
Speaker 11: during the trial, including each of the jurors and Couleton
22:54
Speaker 11: County Clerk of Court Becky Hill. Murdall's attorneys also listed
22:58
Speaker 11: state prosecutor Creighton Waters and Judge Clifton Newman.
23:01
Speaker 3: Oh.
23:01
Speaker 2: I only hope they call Creighton Waters to the stand.
23:07
Speaker 2: That is the chief prosecutor in the Alex Murdie case.
23:10
Speaker 2: Go on, put him up on the stand, because in
23:13
Speaker 2: the state can cross examine their own colleague. That will
23:17
Speaker 2: be incredible. I remember in an Arson murder case, the
23:20
Speaker 2: defense was stupid enough to call one of my Arson investigators.
23:30
Speaker 2: And you're gonna love this, Ronnie Rick Or you're a
23:32
Speaker 2: trial lawyer. They called him at about four o'clock in
23:34
Speaker 2: the afternoon. You know what that means, right before the
23:38
Speaker 2: jury went home for the weekend. I had my own
23:40
Speaker 2: investigator on cross examination. I practically danced across the courtroom.
23:47
Speaker 2: I'm like, isn't it true?
23:49
Speaker 3: You think he did it?
23:50
Speaker 8: Right?
23:50
Speaker 3: I mean, I just said whatever the truth was, and
23:55
Speaker 3: we go that's right, that is right. It was a
23:57
Speaker 3: field day.
23:58
Speaker 2: So I only hope, hope that they actually put Creighton
24:03
Speaker 2: Water's the lead investigator, on the stand. And let me
24:05
Speaker 2: tell you something else, Ryne ricktor that happened at crime
24:07
Speaker 2: con Creighton Waters.
24:10
Speaker 3: Was there and I went up to him. Nobody Wilse
24:13
Speaker 3: was around.
24:13
Speaker 2: I'm like, Waters, please tell me there's not going to
24:16
Speaker 2: be any trial because of Becky Hill. I just don't
24:18
Speaker 2: believe that she said any of these things, or if
24:22
Speaker 2: she did that she didn't say them in jest, and
24:25
Speaker 2: if she did say them in jest, that actually made
24:27
Speaker 2: the jury come back with a guilty verdict. He wouldn't
24:30
Speaker 2: say a word. He just gave kind of like a
24:32
Speaker 2: grin and kind of sidled off. He wouldn't tell me
24:36
Speaker 2: a thing, as he shouldn't, but he's a pretty wily lawyer.
24:43
Speaker 2: I only hope they put Creton Waters on the stand.
24:47
Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen. Okay, what else do we know?
24:51
Speaker 2: Take a listen to the defense lawyer. Now this has
24:55
Speaker 2: just gone down in the last twenty four hours in court.
24:58
Speaker 2: Let's hear what they're up to. Take a lesson as
25:02
Speaker 2: the fox shows its hand.
25:05
Speaker 3: Two thirteen, we.
25:06
Speaker 12: Have environment promotion for Utrum submitted affidavits of one deliberating
25:12
Speaker 12: juror one alternate excuse me, and then and then another
25:18
Speaker 12: a data of a witness to an interview of an alternant,
25:22
Speaker 12: where and all three statements are consistent and in that
25:28
Speaker 12: they heard miss Hill the Clerk of court prior to
25:32
Speaker 12: deliberations and frankly, before the defense put on their case,
25:38
Speaker 12: Miss Hill instructive, do not be fooled by the defense.
25:40
Speaker 12: That's what the swarm statements say. And secondly, before mister
25:44
Speaker 12: Murdas took the stand, Miss Hill device one deliberating juror
25:49
Speaker 12: and two oftenans at least watches demeanor, which is an
25:55
Speaker 12: indication of you know, keep going to lot and and
26:00
Speaker 12: so then the question be comes factually, did those contacts happen?
26:06
Speaker 10: Uh?
26:06
Speaker 2: Oh, he's interpreting what he says. He'll said, how do
26:09
Speaker 2: I know a juror didn't say, you think he's telling
26:11
Speaker 2: the truth. And she said, well, you watch, you decide,
26:14
Speaker 2: you watch him on the stand, How do I know
26:17
Speaker 2: that's not what happened. Now, I want you to hear
26:19
Speaker 2: what Creighton Waters says back.
26:22
Speaker 3: This just went down in court. Listen.
26:24
Speaker 13: We made the argument that the affidavits, on their face,
26:27
Speaker 13: the only deliberating juror indicated. That's six point thirty in
26:32
Speaker 13: that affidavit only said that she voted guilty. She had questions,
26:36
Speaker 13: but voted guilty because she felt pressured by other jurors.
26:39
Speaker 13: And of course, the law is crystal clear in multiple
26:42
Speaker 13: cases that.
26:43
Speaker 3: That sort of internal debate.
26:44
Speaker 2: It's actually on Will six oh six B that.
26:46
Speaker 13: That's not any sort of misconna or anything that is
26:49
Speaker 13: an appropriate venue or mechanism in order to attack the verding.
26:53
Speaker 13: So for that reason we've argued that they're showing in
26:56
Speaker 13: their meation for a new trial is insufficient based on
27:00
Speaker 13: in the case law, we're evident for hearing because there
27:03
Speaker 13: is on his face, you know, a sufficient.
27:05
Speaker 2: Allegation of prejudice, Okay, decide for that, Ronnie.
27:08
Speaker 6: Richter, Well, that means you know, in every jury trial, Nancy,
27:11
Speaker 6: you know this as well as anybody, the only thing
27:13
Speaker 6: the jury agrees on is that they want to go home.
27:16
Speaker 6: And so every jury.
27:19
Speaker 2: Or that they want to go to launch they agree
27:22
Speaker 2: on that, then they fight about what they're going to
27:23
Speaker 2: have to eight go ahead.
27:26
Speaker 6: So for a juror to say that they render their
27:29
Speaker 6: verdict because they felt pressured, that is the jury process.
27:33
Speaker 6: So that has nothing to do with the motion for
27:35
Speaker 6: a new trial. And these extra judicial statements by the
27:39
Speaker 6: clerk of court. Again, they have to prove first they
27:42
Speaker 6: were said, and one or more jurors have to say
27:45
Speaker 6: that because Becky said that thing, I change my vote.
27:50
Speaker 6: And that's a hard stretch to think someone's going to
27:53
Speaker 6: actually say that under oath.
27:55
Speaker 2: You know, when I said to you, Chris McDonnel, you
27:57
Speaker 2: probably live through this as many people on on the panel.
28:00
Speaker 3: And when Richter says the.
28:02
Speaker 2: Only thing they really agree on is they want to
28:04
Speaker 2: go home, and I said, and they also agree they
28:07
Speaker 2: want to go to lunch. That would be like the
28:09
Speaker 2: bailiff's number one concern is getting the jury to lunch.
28:12
Speaker 2: You know, Chris McDonald you've lived through a lot of
28:14
Speaker 2: homicide trials. Every Sunday after church we go out for
28:19
Speaker 2: lunch and somewhere and it never fails. All four of
28:23
Speaker 2: us want to go somewhere different. It never fails, and
28:28
Speaker 2: we of course have a discussion about where we're going.
28:33
Speaker 3: Of course the jury.
28:35
Speaker 2: Is going to argue about where they go to lunch,
28:38
Speaker 2: but we all agree that we want to go. So
28:42
Speaker 2: to have a juror say I voted guilty, I felt
28:44
Speaker 2: pressured by the jury of the jewors at some point,
28:48
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean she would not have voted guilty anyway.
28:52
Speaker 2: So all this discussion about the jurors disagreeing and feeling
28:56
Speaker 2: pressure that happens in every jury trial.
28:58
Speaker 3: Have you had that experience Chris.
29:01
Speaker 8: Absolutely, Nancy. I mean the interesting part of the you know,
29:05
Speaker 8: this particular situation that everybody finds himself watching here is
29:10
Speaker 8: I had a case where I actually had three defendants
29:13
Speaker 8: and three separate juries in the same courtroom. They would
29:17
Speaker 8: not separate, and it was one of the first in California.
29:21
Speaker 8: Long story short, I had a juror staying I was
29:24
Speaker 8: smiling too much during the proceedings, and.
29:30
Speaker 6: You know, they've bore dire the entire all forty.
29:32
Speaker 8: Five jurors, and one of them, in the middle of it,
29:35
Speaker 8: turns and he goes, well, the technic donna smiling doesn't
29:39
Speaker 8: bother me. However, that guy and he points to the defendant,
29:43
Speaker 8: and all had broke loose, right, And it was like
29:48
Speaker 8: people make decisions quickly based upon emotion. And maybe she
29:53
Speaker 8: was hungry, but it doesn't mean to your point, Nancy,
29:57
Speaker 8: that that influenced her decisions.
29:59
Speaker 2: So let me understand this, Ronnie Richter.
30:03
Speaker 3: The defense has to show not.
30:05
Speaker 2: Only are these accusations against Becky Hill true, but also
30:11
Speaker 2: they must prove that it prejudiced the jurors correct, And.
30:17
Speaker 6: That was the big takeaway from yesterday.
30:19
Speaker 3: We also heard the judge laid down the law. Take
30:24
Speaker 3: a listen to this.
30:25
Speaker 14: Former South Carolina Chief Justice Gene Tole took control of
30:28
Speaker 14: her South Carolina courtroom, making several rulings affecting Alec Murda's
30:32
Speaker 14: bid for a new murder trial. His attorneys say jury
30:35
Speaker 14: tampering by Colladen County Clerk of Court Becky Hill impacted
30:39
Speaker 14: the original trials outcome and that, according to Toll, will
30:42
Speaker 14: be the defense's burden to prove. The attorneys argue the
30:45
Speaker 14: law only required them to prove improper contact with jurors
30:49
Speaker 14: that occurred. According to Toll, she will rule that quote
30:52
Speaker 14: prejudice must be proved, not presumed. Toll says the stand
30:56
Speaker 14: she will take on the specific evidence of what was said,
31:00
Speaker 14: when it was said, and how it impacted jury lies
31:03
Speaker 14: with the defense, not an assumption on Becky Hill's credibility.
31:20
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace.
31:24
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood joining us director of Research fitsnews dot Com.
31:27
Speaker 3: Jennifer, thank you for being with us.
31:29
Speaker 2: It's really hard for me to believe anything the defendant
31:33
Speaker 2: says or the defense says, because remember right after Alexei
31:39
Speaker 2: Murdog claimed he had been attacked on a real road,
31:42
Speaker 2: shot in the head and one of the lawyers came
31:45
Speaker 2: out and said, Oh, he's got a brain injury, blah
31:47
Speaker 2: blah blah. He came into court like a day or
31:51
Speaker 2: two later with a band aid, A BANDI yeah, one
31:56
Speaker 2: band aid. I'm like, is that the brain injury?
32:00
Speaker 3: Yeah? So how can I believe anything that they say?
32:02
Speaker 14: You're right?
32:03
Speaker 9: It's you know, kind of like the boy who Cried Wolf?
32:06
Speaker 9: And with their case, you know, is what they're saying true?
32:11
Speaker 9: And do they have do they have what needed to
32:13
Speaker 9: back it up? And I think she's just this toll
32:16
Speaker 9: really closed the door on a lot of it because
32:20
Speaker 9: she's really focusing on the law, which I think is fabulous.
32:24
Speaker 9: You know, if you know she's she's not she said,
32:28
Speaker 9: she's not there to hear a criminal trial against Becky Hill.
32:32
Speaker 9: She is there to hear whether the jurors who deliberated
32:37
Speaker 9: were influenced and if that influence can be proved that
32:42
Speaker 9: it changed their verdict. So, I mean, they tend to
32:46
Speaker 9: throw a lot of noise, Like I said, they muddy
32:48
Speaker 9: the waters by, you know, throwing all of these different
32:51
Speaker 9: allegations about Becky Hill.
32:53
Speaker 3: But really what she.
32:55
Speaker 9: Just as told it was boil it down to the
32:58
Speaker 9: facts that our needs to determine if he should receive
33:02
Speaker 9: a new trial.
33:03
Speaker 2: Guys, I want you to hear the judge herself, just
33:05
Speaker 2: as Jane told in our cut two nineteen, the question of.
33:10
Speaker 10: What was.
33:12
Speaker 15: Empower contacts made them and what in the fact that
33:20
Speaker 15: they've heard, I am saying.
33:23
Speaker 16: That you are on the fence side, have views about what.
33:29
Speaker 15: Further should be asked the jewels on two loves uh
33:34
Speaker 15: one as a predative to what you want to do
33:38
Speaker 15: her herself and.
33:39
Speaker 3: Mamma and her and two.
33:44
Speaker 15: As a means of further a time. The credibility of
33:49
Speaker 15: the clerk in her testament, there's a whole lot.
33:55
Speaker 2: More of it.
34:00
Speaker 16: As pr Qutley is indicated, you like.
34:02
Speaker 3: To explore.
34:05
Speaker 10: That out.
34:06
Speaker 16: Reguard is totally extraneous to the inquiry that we've maintained
34:11
Speaker 16: that I'm not gonna allow those questions to be asked
34:15
Speaker 16: by way of proper and then to have the clerk
34:19
Speaker 16: answer those questions and have that a the proper Although
34:22
Speaker 16: I consider the relevant questions, you're not gonna analycation that
34:27
Speaker 16: way if I exclude.
34:30
Speaker 15: The certain questions to being asked, and the proper will
34:35
Speaker 15: be whatever in writing is chosen to be offered in
34:40
Speaker 15: that reguard. But I will mind end up hearing the
34:43
Speaker 15: full side uh hearing in which every question or desire
34:49
Speaker 15: is asked and even required to be answered.
34:52
Speaker 2: Wow, that is one smart judge to you, Ronnie Richter,
34:56
Speaker 2: high profile lawyer who has deep and many can as
35:00
Speaker 2: to the murder case, and regular people talk.
35:04
Speaker 3: What did the judge just say?
35:06
Speaker 6: She said, this is going to be a very skinny
35:07
Speaker 6: affair that I know you want to talk about. You know,
35:10
Speaker 6: Dick and Jim, you want to talk.
35:11
Speaker 3: About, Hey, are the defense lawyers.
35:13
Speaker 6: The defense players. You want to talk about why Becky
35:16
Speaker 6: Hill did what she did, and some of these extraneous matters.
35:19
Speaker 6: But we're going to limit this to a couple of
35:22
Speaker 6: essential questions. What did she say? Was it improper? And
35:27
Speaker 6: did it change the outcome of the trial? That's it.
35:29
Speaker 6: Don't want to hear anything else.
35:31
Speaker 2: And also it sounds like the ju just saying proper.
35:35
Speaker 2: The judge is saying profer, which means you give the
35:39
Speaker 2: judge what you're intending to ask. You give the judge
35:44
Speaker 2: a sneak preview of what you're intending to do before
35:48
Speaker 2: you do it in open court. So sounds to me,
35:55
Speaker 2: Ronnie like she's trying to head off a lot of
36:00
Speaker 2: cross examination type questions where the attorney makes a speech
36:05
Speaker 2: and then at the inputs a question mark at it
36:08
Speaker 2: to trash Becky Hill.
36:10
Speaker 6: You're one hundred percent right. There would be no theator here.
36:13
Speaker 6: She's asked the attorneys to literally prepare the questions that
36:17
Speaker 6: they want to have asked. She will consider those questions,
36:21
Speaker 6: and she will ask those questions. I don't even think
36:23
Speaker 6: she's going to afford an opportunity for cross examination.
36:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see. I have a saying I used quite
36:31
Speaker 2: a bit as a trial lawyer, and still do. Once
36:36
Speaker 2: the camel's nose is in the tent, his tail will
36:39
Speaker 2: surely follow. In other words, if she lets the defense
36:44
Speaker 2: go on a rampage down a winding pig path, you
36:47
Speaker 2: know what a pig path.
36:48
Speaker 6: Is, right, Richter, I'm from South Carolina, Nancy, Yes, yes,
36:51
Speaker 6: so of course you do.
36:52
Speaker 2: A pig path to those of you that don't know,
36:54
Speaker 2: means you're going along a path with a herd of
36:56
Speaker 2: pigs and they take off, and they take a pig path,
36:59
Speaker 2: which means Willy Neely running. He can't catch him. In fact,
37:05
Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, you know, Ronnie I told
37:07
Speaker 2: you my dad worked for Norfolk Southern Railroad for forty
37:09
Speaker 2: plus years. He also had a pig farm. In other words,
37:14
Speaker 2: raised pigs with my mother's brother, who thought it was
37:17
Speaker 2: a great idea.
37:18
Speaker 3: It was awful.
37:20
Speaker 17: After he would get from work on the railroad all day,
37:24
Speaker 17: crazy hours, you'd have to chase pigs on your pig path,
37:28
Speaker 17: and you know, you grab it.
37:30
Speaker 2: And then take off. You can hold on to a
37:32
Speaker 2: pig like a greased pig. That's what we don't want
37:36
Speaker 2: the defense to do in this case, or anybody to
37:39
Speaker 2: run off down a pig path like a greased pig
37:41
Speaker 2: and you can't catch it and you lose control of
37:43
Speaker 2: the courtroom. This judge is not gonna let that happen.
37:48
Speaker 2: So Jennifer Wood again, what's next and what is the
37:54
Speaker 2: defense going to try to do?
37:55
Speaker 3: Number One?
37:57
Speaker 2: Are they going to bring on the alternate jurors, including
38:00
Speaker 2: the egg lady who made a big production of going
38:03
Speaker 2: back into the jury deliberation room after she was relieved
38:06
Speaker 2: of her position to get the dozen eggs she brought
38:09
Speaker 2: the jurors to eight. We're not hearing from them, are we.
38:13
Speaker 10: No?
38:14
Speaker 9: Chief Justice Toll really limited the scope of the evidentiary
38:17
Speaker 9: hearing which is scheduled January twenty ninth, to just the
38:22
Speaker 9: jurors that deliberated, and she said she wants to hear
38:26
Speaker 9: from all twelve of them. So, you know, I do
38:29
Speaker 9: think that Dickr Putlin and Jim Griffin, who represent Alex Murdoch,
38:34
Speaker 9: are going to try to get as you know, as
38:38
Speaker 9: much of the evidence as a can into that hearing
38:44
Speaker 9: regarding that stuff. But it sounded to me like she
38:47
Speaker 9: doesn't want to hear that.
38:48
Speaker 3: It doesn't the.
38:49
Speaker 9: Alternate jurors or the jurors that did not deliberate, are
38:52
Speaker 9: not critical to what she's hearing.
38:55
Speaker 2: You know, doctor Bethy Marshall, A big danger in court
39:00
Speaker 2: is underestimating your opponent. We all know Alex Murdaga is
39:06
Speaker 2: a big, fat liar, but remember he fooled a lot.
39:10
Speaker 3: Of people for a really long time.
39:14
Speaker 2: These lawyers who I loved to skewer are actually very
39:20
Speaker 2: very good lawyers, Griffin and Harputlian. They're extremely crafty, they're clever,
39:26
Speaker 2: they're wily. They've won a lot of cases. And while
39:30
Speaker 2: I always would go to the courtroom wearing the mantle
39:33
Speaker 2: of the right side, knowing that the defendant was guilty
39:37
Speaker 2: and was evil and needed to go to jail. If
39:41
Speaker 2: you underestimate what the defense is doing here, you're going
39:45
Speaker 2: to be up the creek without a paddle.
39:47
Speaker 18: You know, Nancy, you read my mind, because I was thinking,
39:49
Speaker 18: these lawyers lie as prolifically as their client does, and
39:54
Speaker 18: I was thinking, birds of the feather flock together? Are
39:57
Speaker 18: is there some influence back and forth? Lean murdochs lying
40:01
Speaker 18: and they're lying.
40:02
Speaker 19: And actually the sophistication and the slickness of it in
40:06
Speaker 19: that they really know what to say to grab people's hearts,
40:10
Speaker 19: to influence them, and as I said earlier, to manipulate them,
40:14
Speaker 19: because we can all be manipulated, Nancy, all of us.
40:18
Speaker 19: And it always starts slowly.
40:21
Speaker 18: It starts with one sentence, one agreement, one thing, we
40:24
Speaker 18: capitulate too with another person, and pretty soon we're ensnared.
40:28
Speaker 19: And you know, unfortunately the judge is used to this,
40:31
Speaker 19: so she's not going to be ensnared. But that's not
40:34
Speaker 19: true of the normal everyday citizen who is not used
40:36
Speaker 19: to being light that like you so much, You're.
40:39
Speaker 3: Right, this judge is seen at all.
40:41
Speaker 2: But can this judge be be amboozled? From what I
40:45
Speaker 2: know about the judge, I would have to say no,
40:49
Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle Dupray, I don't want to.
40:52
Speaker 3: Forget what this is really all about.
40:55
Speaker 2: It's not about heartpoot Lean or Griffin, or Creighton Waters
40:59
Speaker 2: or even Alex Murdoch. This is about Maggie, the mother
41:04
Speaker 2: of two, who would put up with the Lord only
41:07
Speaker 2: knows what for years being lured to that hunting lodge
41:13
Speaker 2: and her at seeing her son gunned down. I as
41:19
Speaker 2: you'd think of anything that could hurt me more than
41:23
Speaker 2: to see anything, God forbid it please happen.
41:28
Speaker 3: To my children and one of my children. And as
41:31
Speaker 3: she raced I believe toward Paul, she gets gunned down.
41:36
Speaker 3: That's what this is about.
41:37
Speaker 2: If you could just describe, doctor Dupree, as you know
41:41
Speaker 2: better than any of us today, what happened to Paul
41:44
Speaker 2: and Maggie.
41:45
Speaker 10: Absolutely Nancy, and it is such a tragedy. The scene
41:49
Speaker 10: indicates that she was in fact running toward Paul when
41:52
Speaker 10: she herself was shot, and Paul, we believe, was shot first.
41:56
Speaker 10: Who was shot with a shotgun, which is a devastating injury.
42:00
Speaker 10: I mean it literally just devastates the person. Maggie was
42:05
Speaker 10: shot several times with her rifle again a devastating injury,
42:09
Speaker 10: running when she hears the shot, running towards her son,
42:12
Speaker 10: not knowing what's happening, and then both of them apparently
42:16
Speaker 10: realizing that the person that is doing this is again
42:20
Speaker 10: someone that is a member of their family, their husband,
42:24
Speaker 10: their father. I cannot imagine.
42:26
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood, director research Fitznews dot Com, who is on
42:32
Speaker 2: this case, has been on it since day one.
42:37
Speaker 3: Jennifer, what's going to happen next?
42:38
Speaker 9: So we're going into that Evidential're here in the twenty
42:41
Speaker 9: ninth of January. It is scheduled to be held three days.
42:46
Speaker 3: She just a tool said that she will.
42:48
Speaker 9: Be hearing from the jurors the first day, and we
42:51
Speaker 9: expect to also hear from Becca Rebecca Hill regarding her
42:56
Speaker 9: point of view. It's nobody knows what Becky Hill is
42:59
Speaker 9: going to say, So that's kind of a wild card.
43:02
Speaker 9: You know, she's going to have to get on the
43:04
Speaker 9: stand and give her point of view. Well, she's, you know,
43:10
Speaker 9: under an active flood investigation.
43:12
Speaker 3: So rictor does she have a lawyer, Yeah, she has
43:14
Speaker 3: a lawyer. You know who the lawyer is.
43:15
Speaker 6: She's got a couple, she got will Lewis and Justin Bamberg.
43:19
Speaker 6: Who's state representative out of Bamberg oddly enough.
43:22
Speaker 2: Well, they may be stay representative. But you know what
43:25
Speaker 2: I think about politicians. Are they good trial lawyers. That's
43:28
Speaker 2: all I care about.
43:29
Speaker 6: He was a good trial lawyer before he was a politician.
43:31
Speaker 6: But yeah, he's good. We'll see, we'll see if she
43:33
Speaker 6: takes success.
43:34
Speaker 3: Oh Lord in heaven, yep, okay, we will see. We
43:40
Speaker 3: wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, sat