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Voices of Leadership w/ Chris Atwell - James Ross · Voices of Leadership w/ Chris Atwell

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Voices of Leadership.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Chris Atwell, and in each episode I sit down with the leaders shaping the future of the manufacturer's rep industry.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Real stories, real challenges, real growth.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is where leadership comes to life.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Voices of Leadership.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have a wonderful guest today, James Ross.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: James, thank you for joining me.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: My pleasure, my pleasure.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: You you came into this industry as a lineman, you stepped into corporate sales, you found your way back to the electrical world, and eventually you took ownership of Mountain States Agency with uh with Samantha, right?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a great conversation a couple weeks ago getting to know each other.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: And what um what I see is that you see leadership happening inside your rep agency shifting, yourself and and Samantha.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to explore that shift, the culture you're building, and the standards that uh that you uphold in the business.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: How does that sound?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that'd be great.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so tell us a little bit about yourself, how you came up.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you said, you know, I um but most of my family's blue collar, so you know, we did a lot of construction, uh, grew up being a lineman, did that for 12 years, and ended up going to college.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, saw my grandfather who was a lineman for 50 years, you know, barely be able to walk.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, you know, I want to kind of do something a little bit different where I can still golf when I'm 50, you know.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up going to college, uh, joined the uh sales world.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I fell in love with sales.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: That was kind of my niche that I was always good at, you know, it was with people.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so did that in the corporate world.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then luckily I found Mountain States agency.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been at Mountain States for about eight years, um, back in the industry.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I gotta say, it's always a joke, you know, once you get into this industry, you don't get out.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so true because the people in this industry are just so much better than uh any other industry I've worked in.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's something that uh definitely attracted me to come back and get uh more into tune with the people that I like and then use my skills to make that kind of all successful, what I am today of owning Mountain States Agency.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really interesting that you have experience in the field and you came up with exposure to you know that blue-collar world, which rep agencies uh serve directly.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: What did that field work teach you that still shapes how you sell and how you lead today?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the biggest thing it showed me was just the difference in what their needs are versus each level, right?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have a manufacturer who looks at how fast they can produce a product.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: That product may be delayed, they don't like it, but they're trying to fix it on their end.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of that happens and they don't really understand what that trickles down and affects on a contractor level.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when we needed stuff, we needed stuff now.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that I noticed, exceptionally, you know, with distribution right now.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't have it in stock, there's a lot of contractors that that hurts.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they might be renting a lift for that day, you know, because they got to get installed, and all of a sudden this part and piece is missing.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: They need another one.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's not stocking it, uh that's gonna cost them a lot of money, you know, and and they put that those kind of issues into their bid price, but it's one of those things that that was a huge deal is do we have everything?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is everything arriving on time?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can actually do our work as a contractor and and do what we do best and actually install it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so it kind of gave me an insight of to what their true issues are versus you know what we see on the distribution level, on the GC level, or even at the manufacturer level.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: You also spent time in corporate.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um what did you dislike about the corporate sales world and what feels different now that you're that you're you know running a rep agency?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: I you know it's funny because my wife does corporate, you know, I call it just corporate now instead of small business, but it's the jargon, you know, it's the it's the fake communication, you know, the word usage synergies, and you know, and all this stuff of just, you know, I say BS of like just let's just be honest with each other, you know, let's just let's be transparent, talk to each other as real people and try to fix a problem.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't, you know, you have to go through the minutiae of being in corporate and trying to get answers and sign-offs with the right people instead of just going to the boss and saying, this isn't right, you know.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I remember working for a billion-dollar corporation.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was at Granger at the time, and my role was to bring on new national accounts.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I go and I negotiate with industrial partners, and the part that was the most painful was the bureaucracy of waiting for a signature on a contract on my end, where I had to hand it up through legal, and it would take sometimes a month, six weeks, and this business is waiting to start.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it was uh right, it was it was painful, all that red tape.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't I'm I'm not built for that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not built for that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So Mountain Sales was already established when uh you and Samantha took ownership about three years ago, you said?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So uh what changed when the business became yours?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I would definitely think say the culture shifted.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was um uh we're younger, you know, so you know, I'm 41, she's late 30s, uh, millennials, they say, you know, and so we're really close to both generations, one generation getting out of the workforce and one coming in.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if we worked with both of them, you know, so it's kind of an interesting uh transition period in even in our industry of one generation exiting and and a new one coming in.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say the culture kind of shifted because we have to appease to two generations, ours and the younger ones coming in, and still sell and work with the older generation as they exit.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it is one of those that we have to be aware of what's coming into the market and how are we going to utilize that to grow the company?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can't stay stagnant in this ever-changing company.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, how are we gonna use that to our advantage?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you step in, you become the leader.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: What felt different once the decisions and the people belong to you in that business, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest difference, and you know, you have your own business and and you feel this, but you can't you can't really explain it.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can say it to people, but to feel it is different, is it's now all on you.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, at the end of the day, when we talk to uh manufacturers or you know, other people, they're spending other people's money.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're making decisions with other people's money.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a lot easier to say, hey, let's just hire somebody or let's do that.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when it's yours and you're financially responsible for the decisions, it's up to you to make sure that you're not making any wasteful moves, you know.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um before that, I didn't care.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't my money, you know.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, hey, we should do this.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if it was a no, that's fine, you know.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: But it was just like this is what would work best.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it would work best, but there has to be that kind of financial acumen to make sure you're making that right decision in doing that.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when we became owners, that was the biggest change, is it's just it's now on us, you know.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's we could do a thousand things tomorrow, but what's actually going to be financially feasible and smart.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the risk that you take when you step into your own business.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and you're absolutely right.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I spent time in corporate as well, and you're spending other people's money.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as uh for me, as a a corporate sales manager, right, I was traveling all the time, I was spending money like crazy to when you think about it, right?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Golf tournaments, uh traveling on to different cities all the time, entertaining clients, and but it but it never was my money.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right and then and then here you are, right?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: You step from that mindset of you know, you have a budget to oh wait, this is now officially my budget.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And right.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a big that is a big shift, and those decisions need to be made carefully once they work.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: I agree 100%.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: You describe um we had a chat about Samantha and how that partnership shaped itself, and you describes Samantha as the operational mind of the business and yourself the sales mind.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that split and why that split works.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's it's kind of again kind of the culture change of the company too.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you got to utilize people and their strengths.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, me sitting in front of a computer uh doing quotes is not my strength.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, our our inside team strength is not talking to people, our outside team strength is not entering quotes.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they would go, each person would quit in a week, you know, if they had to switch roles.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of where I think our relationship works great, is the way her mind works is very organized, very thought out.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um she's headed the marketing end of our company for years, and it's always very forward-thinking, you know.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And my mentality is I'm more executional.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I want to go talk to these people, I want to get things solved, get problems out of the way, head into the fire, you know, for lack of better words.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready to run in and just let's talk about it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, so it works really well because she's able to organize it and really get things set up, but I'm the one that can actually go in and let's go and do it, get it done.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that motivates me, and what motivates her is the plan, you know.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it works really well because I don't have to sit down on the weekends and try to be her and and how are we gonna do it?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she doesn't have to do the same thing, wake up on Monday and say, Hey, I gotta do all this stuff, you know, for execution on the sales end, you know, so it works really well.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And where where do where do your styles challenge each other?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you find, you know, maybe there's I think it is that, you know, it's the we joke about it.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if there's a problem, I'm picking up the phone and making a phone call, you know, and she wants to talk about it.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, what do you think?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do you think's gonna happen?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I don't know, just call them, you know, I don't know.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just let's just go into the fire, you know, like let's figure it out.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, put your helmet on, or we're gonna get punched a couple times, and but we're gonna figure this thing out, you know?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's kind of where it changes.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we joke about it, we have we have a great relationship in that sense of it works for us, you know, works, we're we're good really good friends.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's always just worked, but that's probably the biggest difference is you know, I'm just the one, like, let's just let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Head first, let's go cross the line.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it later.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just let's just start working on it.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh at the same time, though, when it comes to different decisions and different things, she has to be the one that put her foot down and slow it down, you know, because I'm wanting to like let's get something done.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, well, hold on, you know, I want you, you know, we got to think about this 19 different ways and what the you know, what this execution might end up being.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And she's right, you know, so it works really well.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that uh you said was that the biggest challenge or the biggest change I should say that you've you've experienced since taking over the agency is the management style itself.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: There was like this this old school approach to managing the business before.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Walk me through what that old school model got done.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, how was it costing people and why what did you have to change?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think though there was the old school mentality, and and and we did talk about this, like you said, is in when you're in corporate world and it just seems like I don't know, a decade ago and four, there's this old unwritten rule of three strikes, you're out.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's this writ unwritten rule of don't mess up, you know, don't uh work outside the box.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you have ideas, that's great.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to have ideas, but I don't want you to really say them because then you become an employee that's difficult, you know, in HR terms, you're a difficult employee, you know, because you're you're outspoken, you know, and so that culture immediately had to change.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's something that we're we're not we did not want to bring, you know, forward.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um we saw it with the employees, you know, what it did with the employees, um, that mentality of the business comes before family, you know, um, we wanted to change that.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that I I say that, but that generation said a lot of things but never did it, you know, and so it is about family, you know, and we're truly actually trying to make that promise something whole.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's one of those things that we've seen in in the past where people talk about and they want to talk about company loyalty, and that's gone, you know, and so we're trying to bring that back.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is why this new generation stays at companies for one or two years and leaves.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's the loyalty there?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's not about them, it's about why is what is the company doing to keep them?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's what are we doing to keep these people and to make them happy?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of mentality is the first kind of culture change we wanted to implement immediately.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, things like uh benefits, time off, family time, work-life expectations, I think it's changing as as we we work with newer generations, they seem to care more about that stuff than than money, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and and for that, as an owner, you know, those expectations change your job.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: They change the way that how you approach leading the team.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And right.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm hearing here.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so what does it mean to manage 16 people as individuals without losing clarity or consistency in the business?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is where Sam comes in.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So no, it's uh it's not easy.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody has their little uh quirks about them, you know, what matters to them more than other people.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, Sam and I have built the you know, rebuilt, I should say, a foundation to where we do, you know, X amount of things as a solid foundation correctly, it's easier to tailor that to the individual, you know, what we need to do because there are a lot of key things people want that are the same.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we just have to, if it's constructive criticism, approach each person a little differently.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or if it's something where we're just we can't allow to happen, you know, we might talk to one, you know, an outside guy, for example.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I think this is great.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can talk to an outside guy one way, and an inside person that you have to talk to a different way, just up front, you know, just the way they're built.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so you take that, but then you like you said, you have to really go back down to what the person's like.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And 16 people is what I I think is great, is the fact that there's still 16 people.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know all the names, they're families.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't lost track of that.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's one thing I saw in the corporate world where you become a number, and it's not about who you are and who your family is and and how this might affect you really in the long run.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's something that we actually can do with only a limited amount of people, and that's really good for us, I feel an advantage for a small business.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we it it kind of relates to uh it was school just started, our kids are going back to school, and um my oldest, she's in junior high now, which you know, she's making that transition and she's in a new school, and it's a lot bigger, there's more people.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the principal actually yesterday he said, you know, we have we have the benefit of having a smaller school.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's only, I think he said 900 students or something like that in this town that we live in, in this particular school.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: He says, that still allows us to know everyone's name and get to know them and know who who their parents are and these kinds of things.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the moment that it gets big and it's you know, 1,500 people, everyone's just a number.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know that becomes a challenge, it's very relatable in in business.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got this size and scope, and uh, you know, in corporate, oftentimes there are lots of employees, and you are a number, whereas you know, running a small to medium-sized business, you can get closer to people and understand the nuances and what drives them, and you know how do you how do you help them uphold the standards in the business.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's an advantage.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I truly believe it, you know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um that note, you know, when you're running a business, you care deeply about the business.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the hardest lessons we learn is that employees may never care as much as the owner.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, how are you learning to lead through that gap?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's tough.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's tough, you know.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's one of those hard, hard lessons because the only reason I'm here sitting as an owner is because I cared more than a lot of people, you know.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a question, I'm like, well, why don't you?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I just have to remind myself that that's the challenge.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how how do we lead them and get them more passionate about being a Mountain States agency branded employee?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how do we how do we get them to care about where, you know, carrying the flag more than what they would want to do anything else with?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the challenges, like you said, of each employee, what are they looking for, what makes them happy?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it becomes frustrating at times, you know, because there's stuff that we have to step in as owners and still because we care, and move the needle, make a decision, or take over because it's just not getting done the way we want it to.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that can get frustrating, but we understand, you know, this is a place that people come and spend more time than they do with their families when you add up the hours.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're they care about their family, their family gives them everything, so they're not gonna have that place in their heart for us at the end of the day.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: We have to get used to that, but when man, how how can we motivate them to give us 102%, you know, when they're here?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of the challenge that we I think we all as leaders face daily.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does caring enough actually look like then?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you said 102% given it, you know, given that, you know, it's not owner level intensity, 102% in their and from their standpoint, but what does caring enough actually look like to you?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: To me, I mean that's a great question.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think caring enough is just what did you do to go over and beyond what the expectation was?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's our job is very simple, you know, and and I think most people's is when you when you boil it down to the basics, but our job is very simple.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're paid to sell a product, and our job is to go find an interested party who already uses it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all these contractors already use this product, and they want we want you to pick ours.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what did what did we do over and beyond to make sure that why are they picking mountain states over our competitors?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're they already are, what are we doing to keep them as a client to make them happy and to keep them buying our stuff?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get them to a point to where it doesn't even matter what our competitors do?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna use us.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I call it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: The 3% rule, you know, it's like, why are you worth three percent more than your competitors?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because if it comes down to price at the end of the day, where is your value?
• 22:12
  unknown: Right.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I want the mountain states.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Our brand is, I want us to be, it's not, it's about price.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're you're a crazy out of whack, yeah, that's one thing.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're a smidge high, our value as a company should cover that.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what are we doing to do that?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're not doing it, and you're just doing the basics, which is what the job is, that's fine, but that's not going over and beyond.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Caring enough is demonstrating your ability to add value.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Going above and beyond, understanding the customers' uh needs, demonstrating that no matter what the price is, Mountain States is going to be there, it's gonna, it's gonna deliver fully without a question.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that that's the people have to stand by that, is what I'm hearing.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Have that conviction that they're gonna come to us, you know.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they have a problem.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Are they calling us?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Are they calling our manufacturer?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we want to be the people they come to.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: One of the one of the things that um you had talked about with me was that you have like this rule that people can mess anything up, but they they can only mess up once, and you know, they can mess it up fast.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um where did that belief come from?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I really just my own experience.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's I think it's the whole three-strike rule thing.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was the whole companies hire people that say they want people to give them feedback and they don't want to hear any of that.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they want the feedback they want to give it to their boss to say, hey, look how good I'm doing, you know.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's one of those that no, that's not us.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want every employee to have a place where they can say whatever the hell they want and we're gonna figure it out.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's that's fine.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have 16 people here that if I did my job right, we hired 16 of the best people.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I not listen to them?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, why would I not trust their judgment?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I have an outside salesman go and do something off the wall, you know, but he had the conviction to go do it, hey man, you know, that's not gonna work.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: But great job.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that's good.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm I'm glad you tried, you know, you tried something you believed in.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you put the brand first, you know, you were thinking about the brand, as long as you're thinking about the brand, but it we can't do that.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And here's why.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, from our my experience, doing this a lot longer, this is what happens when we do that, or we've tried that before, or you know, and and give reasons, be transparent with why this isn't happening.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's been many times in my past in jobs where the answer was no, and there was no reason, it was just no.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, we want to give reasons, and we don't want people to be afraid of, oh, if I make three mistakes, I'm out of the company.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing an employee, well, okay, I shouldn't say nothing.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's a couple things our employees could do, but but there's nothing really someone can do with our brand in mind that's gonna tear this company down.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if it does, we've built a crappy company, you know, and so we we need to build a better company to withstand a couple bruises.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we want people to have conviction in what they do, and the only way to do that is to allow them to mess up.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have one more question for you, and and it's it's on the premise that your experience can help others who are starting their own agency or or uh you know jumping into leadership for the first time.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: What should an owner, or even an experienced owner for that matter, adapting to a younger team, remember about the culture that they're creating?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: What should they remember?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think they should remember that they're not the culture.
• 26:32
  unknown: Wow.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're their people are the culture, you know.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: They they throw that word around, they they have a picture in their head what they want to build, but it's Sam and I are not the culture, it's the 16 people at the company.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we could want whatever we want, but they're the ones that are building it.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, without them, Mountain States doesn't exist.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it it me and Sam would have it one hell of a time trying to run this thing by ourselves.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's the case, we're gonna use them.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: If if I'm the best at hiring people, well then why wouldn't I listen to them?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would say to an experienced owner, I would say, stop trying to be the smartest person in the room.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let these people guide you a little bit and give you some of their inexperience because sometimes they come up with the best ideas.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've changed policies and procedures from people that have worked for us for three weeks because they just saw something different than what we saw.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's great.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, James, thank you.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: What I hear in your story is that trust in employees is of the utmost importance.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And people, they they they can't they they're only gonna grow if they can act and make a mistake and learn and know that you know what, they've got the culture and the owner standing behind them while uh you know the company is there to offer value to them, so they want to stick around, but at the same time, they understand that there's a standard that they need to uphold, and they they need to also deliver value in a way that is demonstrated in the market with your partners.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, we have a a high standard and we want to get there.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we got to listen to the people on what they want and how they want to get there.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: If we don't we get what we want, if we give you what you want, that's the deal.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us what you want, you know, because this is what we expect.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fantastic.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you very much for your time, James.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate appreciate you joining me today.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.