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Low Libido After Baby: Why You Feel Touched Out with Debby Poort · Dam Parenting

• 0:00
  Welcome back to Down Parenting and welcome to our 12 Days of
• 0:03
  Christmas. This time of year can look very
• 0:06
  different depending on where you are.
• 0:07
  You might be flying home or taking a long road trip, or
• 0:10
  staying exactly where you are and watching everyone else move
• 0:13
  around you. Well, wherever you're listening
• 0:15
  from, one thing stays the same. Your village shows up.
• 0:19
  And that's what these episodes are.
• 0:21
  Not new conversations, but the ones you might need now.
• 0:25
  The ones that land differently during the festive season, the
• 0:27
  ones you finally have time to sit with or that might resonate
• 0:31
  deeper than before. Over the next 12 days, we're
• 0:34
  replaying carefully curated down parenting episodes chosen to
• 0:38
  support you through this busy, emotional and often overwhelming
• 0:42
  time of year. So in today's episode, we're
• 0:45
  talking about travelling with kids before the chaos really
• 0:48
  begins. This conversation was recorded
• 0:50
  in the summer of 2024, but it matters just as much now
• 0:54
  because, well, travelling isn't just about packing bags.
• 0:58
  It's about nervous systems, expectations and energy.
• 1:01
  I'm joined by Gabrielle AKA Jetsak Gabrielle on Instagram, a
• 1:05
  content creator who travels extensively with her own family,
• 1:08
  and together we talk honestly about what actually makes
• 1:11
  travelling with kids easier. Not perfect, just easier, and
• 1:15
  with some great tips and insights by how other parents
• 1:18
  are actually doing it. So if you're about to board a
• 1:20
  plane, load the car, or even just brace yourself for
• 1:23
  disrupted routines, this one is here to help you start grounded.
• 1:28
  Enjoy. Hi everyone and welcome back to
• 1:32
  Damn Parenting, your English speaking parenting podcast from
• 1:35
  Amsterdam. And you know us, but now we are
• 1:38
  your hosts, Marin and Eva. And today we have someone
• 1:41
  special with us. We have Gabrielle with us.
• 1:44
  Hi, Gabrielle. Guys, thanks for having me.
• 1:48
  Thank you so much for coming on and we will because it's July
• 1:52
  and everyone is longing for this summer recancy to be coming
• 1:56
  soon. We want to be talking traveling
• 1:58
  with kids today and we thought who better to ask than someone
• 2:03
  whose name is Jet Set Gabrielle. So she's all over the place and
• 2:07
  she is all over the place with her two children.
• 2:09
  She's an expert on how to travel with kids and we've been
• 2:13
  following her on Instagram. I've been secretly going on all
• 2:15
  your trips with. Thank you watching you going.
• 2:18
  It's not in a creepy way. Rocker alert, Yeah.
• 2:21
  But. Going on the safaris with you
• 2:23
  and doing all the fun stuff. So I, I really enjoy the content
• 2:27
  that you put out there and I enjoy that you're very honest
• 2:30
  with travelling with kids and you share all your tips and
• 2:33
  tricks and you're an open book when it comes to that.
• 2:35
  So we thought, let's bring you on and get your best tips and
• 2:39
  tricks travelling with children. And how also one of the things,
• 2:43
  how you got into the whole travelling with kids, because
• 2:46
  this is a big, big topic that parents have, they have, they
• 2:49
  love travelling and then they have children and then they're
• 2:52
  like, OK, how's that going to work now?
• 2:55
  And then some of us just completely let this one go and
• 2:58
  they're not travelling anymore. Or some of us are like, oh, it's
• 3:01
  always a big schlep. It's always a big hassle.
• 3:03
  Or like you and I also like to travel say, all right, how can
• 3:07
  we reorganize this whole travelling?
• 3:09
  So how did you get into travelling with your children?
• 3:13
  First one and then two children. How did you overcome and what
• 3:17
  was your thought process of overcoming anxiety and fear and
• 3:21
  this whole travelling rethinking of how do we travel as a family?
• 3:26
  Yeah, so before I had kids, my husband and I loved travelling.
• 3:30
  It was something that was really important to us.
• 3:32
  So when we had our first child, I think it took about a year
• 3:36
  until we said, OK, let's just start small with beach trips and
• 3:40
  easy trips that, you know, for a baby, it wouldn't be so much on
• 3:44
  us, mind you, because you have the pack of the rocker, the
• 3:47
  bath, like everything I forgot now, like the stroller, the
• 3:50
  diaper bag to bring. So even going to the beach was
• 3:54
  just so much. So something so simple was a lot
• 3:57
  for the parents, but we figured we still wanted that and it was
• 4:00
  important for us as a couple to, you know, take care of ourselves
• 4:05
  too. So I think for the first two
• 4:06
  years we just did beaches. And then slowly you kind of just
• 4:09
  see that certain things you don't need to bring with you all
• 4:12
  the time, you know, like after a few trips and you're like, wait,
• 4:15
  I don't need all these things that, you know, this one
• 4:18
  influencer said, here's my list. But to be fair, everyone is
• 4:21
  different. So I would just say like, Oh,
• 4:23
  you don't need that because another mom probably does need
• 4:25
  it. And so my best thing First off,
• 4:28
  is to decide to go on a trip is start small.
• 4:30
  Even if it's a weekend away, like at a hotel, practice
• 4:33
  getting everything together and just kind of existing in a
• 4:36
  different space because it is hard And just taking everything
• 4:39
  with you is going to give you just so much anxiety, so much
• 4:41
  stuff. Then it's not going to get
• 4:42
  anywhere, but you have to start somewhere.
• 4:44
  And then it gets easier, right? So even just a week and a way at
• 4:46
  a hotel in a different city, I think that's good for the
• 4:48
  family. And then as they get older, you
• 4:51
  kind of see it again. You like bring less.
• 4:52
  You see what works for you. You see it works for your
• 4:55
  husband too and your partner or you know who's coming with you.
• 4:59
  Like sometimes we bring like my mom or my in laws and then they
• 5:05
  like they prefer things like with the kids.
• 5:07
  So it just you learn as you go, I think is my biggest take away
• 5:10
  from it. But the most important thing is
• 5:12
  we just kept on going. It was not easy.
• 5:14
  It was babies have tantrums, babies cry when they, you know,
• 5:18
  they can't nap when they're supposed to nap.
• 5:20
  And my thing was my first child was sleep trained.
• 5:23
  So it was like 12:00 and 2:00 go to his room.
• 5:26
  He was sleep trained, asleep in his crib.
• 5:28
  And that was so difficult when we traveled because he didn't
• 5:31
  have his crib. He didn't wait at 12:00.
• 5:33
  We would be eating lunch. How is this going to happen?
• 5:35
  So I also learned to be a little bit more flexible, which moved
• 5:39
  me to, I think the next question is how did I overcome the
• 5:41
  anxiety with my second kid? So my second kid came along and
• 5:44
  you know, we got into routine having my first kid and or
• 5:47
  traveling with my first kid. And I actually thought I got
• 5:50
  this like I'm pro, but then like the second child just kind of
• 5:54
  throws you a curveball, right? And we were in we were we were
• 5:57
  in Europe. We were in for my sister in
• 6:00
  law's wedding. And at this point wedding was
• 6:01
  done and we were traveling with family to see our accident
• 6:04
  family here on France. And it was in the middle of the
• 6:05
  night. And the you just don't know how
• 6:08
  to handle the tantrum when you're not in your space.
• 6:10
  So you're like quiet, like people are sleeping, but then
• 6:13
  you just realize that their babies and their kids kids and
• 6:16
  you're their mom. So the best thing you can do is
• 6:19
  just be the best mom you can. Like the more you panic, they
• 6:22
  panic and when everyone's panicking and it just kind of
• 6:24
  like take a step back, take a breather.
• 6:26
  It's not easy and you just have to know it's not easy.
• 6:28
  And I always tell like my followers online, don't look at
• 6:32
  the pictures on social media, But also you're not going to see
• 6:35
  the bad stuff because those are my kids.
• 6:37
  I'm not going to air out their bad days and just be like, this
• 6:40
  is reality or even my bad days like nobody wants for me.
• 6:43
  I don't go on social media to see the negative things.
• 6:45
  I go on social media to look at, like you said, other people's
• 6:48
  trips, what they're doing. Oh, that's a nice day today.
• 6:50
  But you just have to take it with a grain of salt and just
• 6:52
  know that that's not what it is because then it's not healthy
• 6:56
  for anyone. So And then what was that last
• 6:58
  question that you said I forgot? To Mom brain in action here.
• 7:03
  OK, we take anxiety, fear. I do have one question for you
• 7:07
  is when you're talking about like, start with the hotel, like
• 7:10
  the weekends away or whatever, how do you do that?
• 7:13
  When you have nap times with a baby and you take a hotel, you
• 7:16
  have to close all the curtains, you put the baby down, and then
• 7:19
  what? Because I'm sitting on a bed in
• 7:21
  the dark with a child and I shouldn't be on my phone because
• 7:24
  it's not great for my vision or, you know, I mean, yeah.
• 7:28
  Or they go down to sleep at 8:00 and you're both sitting in the
• 7:30
  room going. Well, now what?
• 7:32
  You know, we don't have those American 2 rooms, you know,
• 7:36
  hotel rooms here. Creations, I would say go out
• 7:39
  for a walk and have them sleep in the buggy or something
• 7:42
  because we did that. I mean, hotel wise, we were out
• 7:45
  in Florida at one time and we, I had two at this time.
• 7:48
  So we only had one bedroom because we could all like in two
• 7:51
  beds that the hotel provides. They could fit and they're
• 7:54
  little. So we're not going to leave them
• 7:55
  in a separate room. But nap time just meant put them
• 7:58
  in the stroller and take a walk. And that's why they say it's not
• 8:02
  a holiday. Like you're if you want a
• 8:04
  holiday where you're sitting on the beach and relaxing, then you
• 8:07
  also that's a whole different type of travel.
• 8:09
  And that's a different, I guess, step for parenting because you
• 8:12
  have to leave your kids behind with someone.
• 8:14
  And leaving my first was very hard.
• 8:17
  I think, I think I left him for one night with my mom and the
• 8:19
  next day I had her drive him up to me because it was my first
• 8:21
  time leaving him and I was just, I missed him.
• 8:23
  But then as they get older, if you want a holiday, then you
• 8:27
  need to take it with your partner or take it with girls or
• 8:29
  your friends or something else and get your holiday because a
• 8:32
  family holiday is not what it's going to be.
• 8:34
  So yes, if it means taking your baby out and walking him or her
• 8:38
  in the buggy for an hour so they sleep, that's what you're
• 8:40
  working towards for the future. Because ultimately now my kids
• 8:43
  know how to travel. They know the expectations when
• 8:46
  they know we have a flight. You know, the cheaper flights
• 8:48
  are usually at 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning.
• 8:50
  So the night before they're in their clothes ready to go and
• 8:53
  are we going to wake up in the middle of the night?
• 8:54
  Yes, you are. Like they know that.
• 8:56
  But we started them so young with these changes that they
• 8:59
  need to learn to adapt to. And it's hard for everyone, but
• 9:02
  it comes down to how much do you want to travel and have this
• 9:06
  experience with, with your kids? Because for some people it's a
• 9:08
  lot. And if it, if it's too much,
• 9:10
  then that's OK. Like you don't have to travel.
• 9:12
  Then if that's, you know, you can do maybe family trips
• 9:16
  instead and then just rent a big house with another family, then
• 9:19
  your kids can play. And there's these other like
• 9:22
  organizations actually that have been popping up on my feed.
• 9:24
  I don't remember them off on the top of my head, but usually
• 9:27
  they're like hosted trips and there's just one, they do a
• 9:29
  retreat for families. So you don't even have to plan
• 9:31
  it with someone that you know, there's like organizations that
• 9:34
  have like they book the villa or whatever area you're in and like
• 9:38
  5 families can book and they provide the nannies, the food,
• 9:41
  the activities. Of course it comes with a price.
• 9:43
  But that's, I mean, you can't have a holiday and then parent
• 9:46
  your kids and then expect to relax.
• 9:47
  You know, just, I think that's what people think.
• 9:50
  And the reality is you go on a vacation with your family, it's
• 9:53
  going to be hard, but they learn as you go.
• 9:55
  Or you get one with the kids club if they're a little older.
• 9:59
  And if they're younger, then you find these organizations that
• 10:01
  put the holidays together for you.
• 10:02
  So there's different options obviously, but I think there's a
• 10:05
  way to make it work and it just takes a lot of patience.
• 10:08
  What I found so important, what you just said, a big aim into
• 10:12
  that is the the distinction between a holiday and an
• 10:16
  experience and traveling with children.
• 10:19
  So exactly what you said, traveling with your children is
• 10:23
  not a holiday full stop because but it is an experience, it is
• 10:27
  bonding, it is traveling, it is exploring, it is going through
• 10:32
  the life in a different environment.
• 10:35
  But we should not expect to relax and be refreshed and be
• 10:40
  recharged after this. We will feel recharged in other
• 10:43
  fields of like bonding, connection, experience and these
• 10:47
  kind of things. But not in my battery is run out
• 10:50
  and now I'm probably even more exhausted than I was before.
• 10:54
  But I filled my cup with other things.
• 10:56
  And I thank you so much for mentioning this because I think
• 10:59
  this is like the biggest learning that I have taken away
• 11:02
  also from travelling with my child and I only have one but
• 11:06
  really making this mind shift of what kind of trip is this?
• 11:10
  What am I expecting and what is the difference that I will be
• 11:14
  feeling after this trip? Will I be relaxed?
• 11:17
  Will I be recharged? Will I do all this?
• 11:19
  Then yes, like you said, I will go away alone with my friends.
• 11:22
  I will book a yogurt retreat or what?
• 11:24
  Nothing with my kids that's for sure.
• 11:27
  Do I want to nourish myself with experience bonding all these?
• 11:32
  Then yes, I will take my children.
• 11:34
  So this is, I think a big, big, big learning for all parents to
• 11:38
  really look at this time out. But what is how is how is the
• 11:43
  time out? What is the outcome and what is
• 11:45
  why? What mindset am I going into?
• 11:48
  So this is, thank you so much for mentioning this because I
• 11:50
  think this is a very big misconception that we think, Oh
• 11:53
  yeah, holiday means relaxing, means recharging, but not
• 11:58
  necessarily when you're having kids, when you're traveling long
• 12:01
  distance, when you have time differences, all these kind of
• 12:04
  things. Then this people only add on to
• 12:08
  the adaption and all that, all that stuff.
• 12:10
  Yeah, and I think the expectations people put on
• 12:13
  themselves, too, because like, I share what I learn and do, but I
• 12:17
  don't push it. And I think sometimes people
• 12:19
  think that when they see someone and they share what they know,
• 12:22
  it's like, oh, that my kid should follow that too.
• 12:24
  But every kid is so different. Like even my two kids are
• 12:26
  different. So what I do for one kid also
• 12:28
  doesn't work for the other, and vice versa.
• 12:30
  But then also back to like the holidays, even as a family for
• 12:33
  experience, like we mix it up with slow holidays and busy
• 12:37
  holidays. Perfect.
• 12:38
  One is balance of both. When we have enough time, we do
• 12:40
  both. Like we'll do a day of
• 12:42
  activities and then a day of nothing and then a day like and
• 12:45
  my husband knows when he plans these things, it's two days
• 12:48
  back-to-back. It should only be that way
• 12:50
  because there's like time wise or reservation wise, but then I
• 12:54
  need a day to just to be. So I think one of our longer
• 12:58
  trips we did, we ended up in a little bit in a city north of
• 13:02
  Paris with his aunt. And I think one of the days they
• 13:04
  were going to go in the city, they just like roll around.
• 13:07
  And I think just my mental capacity, I could not.
• 13:10
  And I just knew the kids were just so done from being in the
• 13:12
  car. And so his aunt's house have
• 13:14
  like a huge backyard. It's just like, and has one
• 13:17
  swing set, just grass and then a swing.
• 13:19
  And so my husband and family went to the city and we stayed
• 13:22
  home for five hours. The kids were just out there.
• 13:24
  Like, I don't even know what they were playing with, but they
• 13:26
  were just using their imagination shaking turns on the
• 13:28
  swing. I think they just needed that
• 13:29
  time to just be. And I think even as a parent,
• 13:33
  you also just need that time to be, whether it's a flow travel
• 13:36
  or a busier 1, you can't pack your itineraries also based on
• 13:40
  like what you find online. And I think my biggest thing is
• 13:42
  do your research online to find, you know, itinerary tips, kid
• 13:45
  trips, whatever travel hacks, how to travel with a toddler.
• 13:49
  But just know that when you also expect yourself and you have a
• 13:52
  list of 10 things, it's not a nap.
• 13:54
  Like trust yourself, like you, everyone has like Mama bear
• 13:57
  instincts, right? And that's really what you need.
• 14:00
  Because I think one time I saw this thing where they had like
• 14:03
  a, a beaded box and had a bunch of different squares for like
• 14:06
  different snacks, right? So I prepped them.
• 14:08
  I had two, it was like a four hour flight that we had.
• 14:11
  I had two of them for my kids. Well, they picked and chose the
• 14:13
  ones that they wanted, didn't eat their rest, didn't want the
• 14:16
  rest. So then in my bag I have two
• 14:19
  containers of things that is a wasted space where if I just got
• 14:22
  a small Tupperware, put Chex mix in there, that would have been
• 14:25
  better. And then a small Tupper or a
• 14:27
  little baggy, the reusable ones are great because then you can
• 14:29
  just like keep using the same one, rinse it out and wash it.
• 14:32
  That would have been better. So sometimes it's just like what
• 14:34
  you see sometimes look so appealing and great, but then
• 14:37
  the reality is that just more stuff to take with you on the
• 14:39
  plane. Yeah, I meant to that.
• 14:41
  That's so good. Good that you pulled that tooth
• 14:44
  from me because I was always like, should I finally get one
• 14:47
  of these little things? Because I doing this whole back
• 14:50
  thing like I'll just throw her favorite snacks and what I know
• 14:54
  she will eat no matter what, no matter state what she's in.
• 14:56
  This is the safety thing. But then I thought, oh, but I
• 14:59
  see all these nicely curated little boxes with all these
• 15:02
  little things and should I do this?
• 15:04
  But now I I'm not even gonna go down this road.
• 15:08
  I did, it works. It works for some people.
• 15:10
  And if it like if it worked the first time for me and I would
• 15:12
  totally believe that. And I think that's where it,
• 15:14
  like I said earlier, it's just everyone is different.
• 15:17
  And so it didn't work for me. So I'm like not doing that
• 15:20
  again. But if it did, I'd be like, you
• 15:22
  have to, you have to do this because it works all the time.
• 15:25
  So it's it just you have to try everything and then what works
• 15:28
  the best, that's what you stick to.
• 15:30
  That's the problem though, so I did buy that box where you and
• 15:33
  it. Turns with.
• 15:34
  I bought that. I got my family in America to
• 15:37
  get it. I got them to bring it over with
• 15:38
  them a couple years ago. And I'm like this, it works.
• 15:41
  I'm not going to lie. It actually works.
• 15:43
  We're super happy with it. But again, you're I'm only
• 15:45
  putting things I know as a guarantee to be eaten.
• 15:48
  Sometimes there's cucumber, tomato, thronium, but that
• 15:50
  actually makes it worse because if then juice is flowing around.
• 15:54
  But it's that thing that yeah, you're trying to.
• 15:56
  I get fooled. I think is what I'm going to say
• 15:59
  is I see the Instagram and I see exactly what you just said is
• 16:02
  those people going this work for me?
• 16:04
  Because when it does work for you, you're going to blast it.
• 16:07
  You're going to be, you're like, hey, this is so great, this is
• 16:08
  so great. So I did get sucked into that
• 16:11
  and I did buy it. But indeed, there are things
• 16:13
  that just don't work for me or I have to take it with a pinch of
• 16:16
  salt because the biggest thing for me is most of the social
• 16:19
  media we are going to see is actually American based and we
• 16:22
  cannot get them. Or you're having to order from a
• 16:25
  website, which I'm not going to state, which is absolute
• 16:27
  extortionate pricing. Or then you have to find someone
• 16:31
  who has family in America is like, hey, by the way, any
• 16:34
  chance you can bring it back for me, please?
• 16:36
  You know, So The thing is this is a problem I do have.
• 16:38
  So thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying like have a
• 16:41
  recheck of yourself, like be realistic about it.
• 16:44
  And equally, you can always get those tool boxes.
• 16:46
  That's the latest thing is get the tool boxes.
• 16:48
  You don't need the fancy brand stuff as well.
• 16:50
  But the bags, yes, that's the next thing that I was like
• 16:53
  wondering, should I get those reusable silicone bags or
• 16:57
  something? They are.
• 16:57
  And I'm like, oh, is that the next thing I need to buy?
• 16:59
  I don't know. I have to say, yes, they're,
• 17:02
  they're great, but it's just so much easier to get the like
• 17:06
  disposable ones because, because if they're all dirty and you
• 17:09
  have to wash it, wait for it to dry, like I try to do use the
• 17:13
  reusable ones more often. But honestly, like if I'm on the
• 17:15
  way, if we're at like a small town and we're out and about and
• 17:19
  I just bought a box of cookies And so when you open it, you
• 17:22
  can't seal it again. And I don't have the reusable.
• 17:25
  It's like, then I'm just going to go buy the disposables and
• 17:28
  then zip lock the cookies in there.
• 17:29
  Otherwise then the cookies are spilling in your bag.
• 17:31
  It's just a whole. So sometimes you have to, but I,
• 17:33
  I think I really do like the reusable ones, but also it's
• 17:36
  like, I don't need, you know, 10 of them.
• 17:38
  But like with the four or five that I have, I'm constantly
• 17:41
  rinsing, washing, rinsing, washing.
• 17:43
  So hanging. Them out in the washing line,
• 17:44
  letting her blow dry like our granny.
• 17:46
  'S used to do, so it's. It's both.
• 17:48
  Both work. I did have a question, something
• 17:52
  you mentioned earlier when you're talking about like the
• 17:54
  the travelling aspect of things. I do think some parents kind of
• 17:58
  get locked into this idea of, but kids are free under 2 and so
• 18:02
  they feel that pressure to be like, I got to take this
• 18:04
  opportunity. Is there anything you could say
• 18:06
  to that kind of side of things where it's like, oh, you know,
• 18:09
  we wanted to go to Thailand and we don't have to pay for our
• 18:11
  kids, so let's just go now on our kids, like 1 or 1 1/2 or
• 18:14
  even younger. Well, I think like we started
• 18:17
  travelling when my kid was under both and weren't there too.
• 18:19
  But then your expectations just shouldn't be so high for what
• 18:23
  you're going for. So when you look at that, you
• 18:25
  know, let's say, oh, I want to go to, let's say are we doing
• 18:29
  Europe or America, let's say like Switzerland, for example,
• 18:33
  or in America, Yellowstone, right, both mountaine hiking
• 18:36
  stuff. OK, well if you have someone
• 18:38
  under 2, don't expect to go see all the hikes and beautiful
• 18:42
  viewpoints unless you're a family that already does have
• 18:46
  the camelback water thing. You have all the gear you're
• 18:48
  used to just hearing baby wearing your child.
• 18:51
  But if it's just a trip that you want to go on because they're
• 18:53
  free, then maybe your ideal trip would just be, you know, get a
• 18:56
  little Airbnb in the wilderness, like away from all the crowds.
• 19:00
  That way it could still be homey.
• 19:01
  You still have the views without the crowds and the tourists.
• 19:04
  You have a local restaurant. You can move it.
• 19:05
  You just have to really alter your trip.
• 19:07
  So I am totally for travelling with littles because it just
• 19:11
  gets everyone prepared. You know, like the littles start
• 19:13
  adapting easier to just different time schedules.
• 19:16
  Parents get used to what they really need to get, but you just
• 19:18
  have to choose your activities a little bit differently.
• 19:21
  Yeah. Also what you just said, you're
• 19:23
  really like pulling out the pearls here because one thing
• 19:26
  that you also said is like, are we that family?
• 19:29
  Are we that hiking family? Do we already have all that
• 19:31
  stuff? Or do we just see a nice
• 19:33
  Instagram post of two parents with their baby in their
• 19:37
  backpack on the top of the mountain and you're like, Oh
• 19:39
  yeah, I want that. But then you look in your closet
• 19:42
  and you're like, well, I have my slippers, I have my, I have a
• 19:45
  little tote bag. That's what I have is hiking
• 19:48
  here. So this is, I think, very, very
• 19:51
  important. Also thinking what kind of
• 19:54
  travel family are we like? What are the things that we
• 19:58
  already have? What are the things that we
• 20:00
  enjoy and not? Now we're gonna yodel.
• 20:03
  Yeah, Yeah. And now we're gonna invent this
• 20:05
  whole new persona of us hiking or us snorkeling or these kind
• 20:10
  of things where you think this is what you have to do because
• 20:13
  this is so much fun and other people do it.
• 20:15
  But very, very wise tip from you of what do we have?
• 20:19
  Have. And what is our vibe like?
• 20:21
  What? What do we enjoy?
• 20:23
  Yeah. It actually reminds me of those
• 20:25
  posts where people are kind of like, you know, it's not as hard
• 20:27
  as it looks. And it's kind of like, well, it
• 20:30
  was hard before kids. I'm not hiking up that mountain.
• 20:32
  So yeah. Yeah.
• 20:35
  And how it did with your. Hard.
• 20:36
  It's doable. I would say like, yeah, I do
• 20:39
  have to say it. I think when people say it's not
• 20:41
  as hard as it looks, I think it's just, it just takes that
• 20:44
  bravery and that push and it's not easy, but I I think it'll
• 20:49
  work. And how is it with your two
• 20:51
  children? Because I think this is also one
• 20:54
  thing that parents with two children thrive for.
• 20:56
  Oh, at one point they will entertain each other.
• 20:58
  How is it? And we we haven't even talked
• 21:01
  about how big the age difference between your children is.
• 21:04
  Is it is this something that we can look forward to where they
• 21:07
  on travel like, oh, they entertain themselves in the
• 21:09
  flight or they go to the lounge or they go wander off and then
• 21:13
  when time is too bored, they just come and we'll just go.
• 21:16
  Yes, I do have to say as the kids get older, traveling is
• 21:18
  easier in a way where they can walk, go to the bathroom by
• 21:22
  themselves, tell me what they need.
• 21:24
  Tell me when they're hungry. You can, they're not crying.
• 21:26
  I mean, they're whining when they're hungry, but they're not,
• 21:28
  you know, in distress. But my kids age differences are
• 21:32
  1 1/2 years apart. They entertain each other, but
• 21:34
  also on the plane they have they have their routine.
• 21:36
  So, you know, we do give screen time, but we also limit it
• 21:39
  because we don't want them. Like one time one of my kids had
• 21:43
  a really bad headache and I'm like, oh, that was because you
• 21:45
  probably were on your tablet for too long.
• 21:47
  So we do allow it. There's, you know, more screen
• 21:49
  time than they usually get, but they also know because of that
• 21:52
  instance, OK, every hour there's a break.
• 21:54
  You can take a nap, you can eat, you can sit there, you can draw
• 21:58
  and guess, you know, there's times where they're bickering,
• 22:01
  but you find your routine, right?
• 22:03
  Like, so for us, it's usually either one kid with one parent
• 22:07
  or I sit in the middle or a parent sits in the middle and
• 22:10
  then they're on both sides. I mean, they're brothers or
• 22:13
  their siblings. So for the most part, they know
• 22:16
  what their expectations are. But sometimes it's like, well, I
• 22:18
  want the aisle, I want the aisle.
• 22:21
  And I think they also need expectations too.
• 22:23
  So before flights, even now, they're still learning, right?
• 22:26
  So it's like, OK, this flight you had the aisle last time, so
• 22:29
  your brother's going to get the aisle.
• 22:30
  No, I want, it's like, well, that's it is what it is.
• 22:32
  Or there's another flight coming home.
• 22:34
  So, so we also let them know what is expected.
• 22:37
  Obviously doesn't always work, but it's a learning thing.
• 22:40
  That's where it gets easier though.
• 22:41
  But it's still hard in terms of also, you can't just stick them
• 22:44
  in a stroller. Like I miss having the stroller
• 22:46
  to just put everything in and then put them in and you just
• 22:49
  walk at your home pace. I do miss that.
• 22:52
  But now in terms of like planning lunches, no naps, that
• 22:56
  gets easier. But now they also have an
• 22:58
  opinion. So it's like the activities you
• 23:00
  choose. I don't want to, I don't want to
• 23:02
  do this. But it's also fun though, like I
• 23:04
  think this age, like we did South Africa earlier this year
• 23:06
  and that was one of our bucket list things before we had kids.
• 23:09
  They were up for those safaris for like 5 days straight at like
• 23:11
  4:00 in the morning. And we told them we had to be up
• 23:14
  early and we told them the expectations, but also we didn't
• 23:17
  do it the whole day. So we also listened to our kids
• 23:20
  and their needs. If we're up at 4:00, we were
• 23:22
  back in the hotel for lunch by I think 11 and then the rest of
• 23:26
  the day was theirs, the pool. What do you want to do?
• 23:30
  So it's not, I think that's another thing too is the balance
• 23:33
  between what you want to do as a parent and listen to your kids.
• 23:36
  There's certain platforms like what is it?
• 23:38
  There's TripAdvisor. No, not TripAdvisor.
• 23:40
  There's get your guide. There's another one like that,
• 23:43
  but they provide a bunch of activities, right?
• 23:46
  So you can pop on and you can just search a whole bunch of
• 23:49
  things and see what's family friendly.
• 23:51
  So when we went to Cape Town, we just did a speed boat around the
• 23:54
  harbor. What's it called?
• 23:56
  Yeah, around the harbor. And they thought that was fun.
• 23:59
  And so we kind of try to balance it both with what we like to do,
• 24:03
  what they like to do. Heart breaks are great.
• 24:05
  So if we do something that we wanted to do in the morning
• 24:08
  after lunch, the day's all theirs.
• 24:10
  So. And then that makes travelling
• 24:11
  for kids also not like we never get to do what we want or.
• 24:15
  So that's something you mentioned.
• 24:17
  So if you are like, hey, we're getting up before in the
• 24:19
  morning, are you putting them to bed earlier?
• 24:20
  Same time. So my kids still like before,
• 24:23
  they were a little older, like now I think they went to bed
• 24:25
  around 7:00 and then now they go to bed around 8:00.
• 24:29
  So we try to put them around 8:00.
• 24:31
  So I think it's still the same time, but we just take it easy
• 24:34
  on them. And then I just know also I've
• 24:36
  learned is like this is where my kids after about day three of
• 24:39
  four or four about being busy, it's like they just have
• 24:42
  tantrums. You know, you're tired just like
• 24:44
  adults are. So I expect it now and that's
• 24:48
  usually around those days is when we don't plan anything.
• 24:50
  And that's like, what do you want to do?
• 24:52
  You want to go to the park? Do you want to stay home and
• 24:54
  just play like even if you stay in the hotel and or we usually
• 24:58
  Airbnb on like longer trips. So if you want to stay in the in
• 25:00
  the place and just pretend it's home, you know, play with your
• 25:03
  toys, then that's what we do. Because I feel like they just
• 25:06
  need to get it together. We all do.
• 25:08
  We all need to reset and then we can be fine again.
• 25:10
  But for my kids, it's like 3 to four days After either jet lag
• 25:14
  or busy itineraries or travel, I can expect a rough, rough day.
• 25:19
  But that's also what it's about, you know, holidays or travelling
• 25:22
  is also having these leisure days where you don't have
• 25:24
  anything and you just float and you maybe go out for breakfast
• 25:28
  or you just like we're just enjoying our company as a family
• 25:32
  in a different environment. So there's also very important
• 25:34
  to not pack every second because we have to squeeze everything
• 25:38
  out because yeah, it's just going to leave to tantrums on
• 25:42
  each side. It's not going to increase the
• 25:43
  patients on any side. Yeah.
• 25:46
  Can I ask you what is your favorite way to travel?
• 25:48
  Is it by train, plane, car or walk?
• 25:52
  I get that one, but. So with it like we've taken a
• 25:55
  lot of Rd. trips actually within Europe because cost wise by car
• 25:59
  for our family of four is cheaper.
• 26:02
  So I guess it depends how long we we have.
• 26:04
  So usually for the shorter breaks, we fly, but for the
• 26:07
  summer breaks depending also where we're going.
• 26:08
  So one time, let me see, one summer we did like we drove to
• 26:15
  Italy, Switzerland, scooped down and went back up and then came
• 26:20
  home. And then another time we drove
• 26:22
  to the Alps, swooped down to Italy, came up through all of
• 26:26
  France to visit my husband's family, Barcelona and then or
• 26:30
  Barcelona and then all the way home.
• 26:32
  That was a long one, but we just had the time to do it.
• 26:35
  Otherwise, we, I think we prefer to fly over trains.
• 26:39
  But I do have to say we haven't really done trains like we
• 26:42
  should. Like we have a friend that did
• 26:44
  like Austria, Germany, like that whole area on a train.
• 26:48
  Italy, I haven't done that yet. And the kids have just gone on
• 26:51
  the train to like Cologne or within the Netherlands.
• 26:55
  Those are easy. And then I've done a train to
• 26:57
  Paris multiple times, but I think that one is like the one
• 27:00
  that we haven't tried yet. And then we fly a lot only
• 27:03
  because when we do long haul travels, we use points, which
• 27:07
  helps us. So I also tell everyone that
• 27:09
  it's kind of unfortunate that in Europe like.
• 27:11
  Yes, Oh yes, don't get us. Started my American husband is
• 27:15
  also like, what is up with the credit cards here?
• 27:17
  What is up with this whole point?
• 27:19
  We could be doing all of this. I'm like, yeah, I know.
• 27:22
  Yeah, exactly. Like it's not as great.
• 27:25
  And if you have an American, you know, be able to get an American
• 27:29
  card and obviously use it smart. There's just so many more perks
• 27:32
  and that's how we, we get our long hauls.
• 27:35
  Like it's expensive if you were to pay cash out of pocket.
• 27:38
  And I'm so I tell everyone like when we like our South Africa,
• 27:41
  that was on points. We're going to Tokyo this
• 27:43
  summer. It's on points.
• 27:43
  It offsets the cash value that you have to pay.
• 27:47
  But within Europe, obviously, like EasyJet, Reiner, those ones
• 27:50
  aren't, they don't have points, obviously, because you can't
• 27:53
  have points here. So those ones we'll just pay
• 27:56
  for. But then that's also when we do
• 27:57
  the pricing. It's like plane or train.
• 27:59
  Then it's ultimately kind of like the same ish depending on
• 28:02
  when you book the train. And then when we do lie, it's
• 28:06
  like quicker just with the time that we have.
• 28:08
  So we still want to try like a summer where we take trains
• 28:13
  throughout Europe and that's the way that we travel.
• 28:15
  That's still kind of on our list to try out.
• 28:17
  So I can't really give my, I guess opinion about it because I
• 28:21
  haven't done that yet. But plane wise, I think we've
• 28:23
  done that quite often. So pretty comfortable with that.
• 28:26
  You just mentioned Ryanair and EasyJet.
• 28:28
  Have you done them? Yeah, we've done EasyJet,
• 28:30
  Ryanair, Transavia, we've done, we usually fly the budget
• 28:35
  airlines to be honest within Europe.
• 28:37
  OK. Yeah, because.
• 28:39
  They're the 5:00 AM flights. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:41
  And is there anything, so we talked about now being at the
• 28:44
  destination travelling, is there anything when it comes to
• 28:47
  packing that you have the golden tip?
• 28:51
  Are you using these packing cubicles?
• 28:54
  What's your what's your travel hack like?
• 28:56
  What's your packing? Hack depends on what I need
• 28:59
  honestly. I've used everything like
• 29:01
  everyone has their one thing. Like sometimes I don't even use
• 29:03
  any of them because I feel like I can fit more without these
• 29:06
  packing cubes or the vacuum bags.
• 29:09
  If anything I use the vacuum bag is the least.
• 29:12
  I only use them if I have to only because I don't like how
• 29:16
  everything just gets so like wrinkled and unorganized and
• 29:18
  then you have to like open a bag when you get your destination.
• 29:21
  It just doesn't seem as organized for me.
• 29:23
  So I do have to say the thing I use most are packing cubes.
• 29:25
  I do use those almost every time but sometimes if I have to pack
• 29:28
  a lot in a small luggage, if I can fit more without it, I just
• 29:32
  do that. We are a non check in family if
• 29:35
  we're flying within Europe because obviously check
• 29:37
  insurance are they add to the cost.
• 29:40
  But also I don't like knowing that my stuff can get left
• 29:43
  somewhere if we're going to leave that city and then leave
• 29:45
  somewhere else. So when we do our like longer
• 29:47
  trips, we usually hit multiple cities in one holiday.
• 29:51
  But like what if you leave there, then you're luggage,
• 29:52
  oops, sorry, you're luggage gets to the airport and then it's
• 29:55
  just a hot mess. And so I've learned to just
• 29:59
  travel with the rolling carry on.
• 30:01
  We have done trips with all the kids with just backpacks.
• 30:04
  But I do have to say if like we went to Finland 1 winter,
• 30:08
  obviously that was impossible. So we did check in one large bag
• 30:13
  for the jackets for everyone. So we don't check in for
• 30:16
  everyone. So I mean you have to be
• 30:17
  realistic. But for the most part, if we can
• 30:19
  fit in what's included, it works.
• 30:21
  So then planning that though we choose Airbnb's with washer and
• 30:25
  dryers in South Africa, We ended the trip in a hotel that didn't
• 30:29
  have a washer and dryer and I didn't really want to have to go
• 30:31
  to the laundromat. So I caught this is something I
• 30:35
  like. I think I saw it, but I got this
• 30:37
  foldable bin. So I packed, I just dumped into
• 30:40
  the car seat bag and then these sheets that dissolve in water,
• 30:44
  They must have been around like it was my first time learning
• 30:46
  about them this year. And So what I would do is I pop
• 30:49
  open the bin, put, I don't know, a few socks for whatever dirty
• 30:53
  clothes in there, put the sheet in, kind of rinse it up it and
• 30:56
  then I would hang dry them. It worked better when you had a
• 30:59
  balcony in the heat. Didn't work so well in a hotel
• 31:02
  room I had. It was like damp, so you had to
• 31:04
  like blow dry it. So it was kind of a pain in the
• 31:06
  butt. I would say I'd recommend it,
• 31:08
  just depending on where you're going.
• 31:10
  Let's get into then a few of the tips as we wind up here.
• 31:13
  So what are your go TOS? What are your must sees?
• 31:17
  What are your like for your kids like?
• 31:19
  What travel things are you like? Like look, if you bring this,
• 31:21
  this will bring Peace of Mind. OK, so packing wise, a car seat
• 31:25
  bag that has wheels. We've done the whole backpack
• 31:27
  car seat bag. That one was a hot mess,
• 31:29
  especially when you're turning around with that with the kids
• 31:31
  and everything. So we've used basically it has
• 31:33
  four wheels. Don't get the two wheel one
• 31:35
  because if your partner's tall or if you're tall, it doesn't
• 31:38
  angle the properly. So get the four wheel one and
• 31:40
  you can just drag that through the airport and roll it into
• 31:43
  check in and then you can just stuff it with whatever doesn't
• 31:45
  fit in your luggage. Is that's my one thing that I've
• 31:47
  had ever since they were kids. And then for them snacks, snacks
• 31:53
  is just go to the grocery store because you don't want a hungry
• 31:56
  no matter what age, toddler, child, kid, teen granola bars or
• 32:00
  I mean even just something that you don't normally always give
• 32:02
  like food snacks or even just like a lollipop that will fix
• 32:06
  them until you can get a meal. Lollipops for kids on flights on
• 32:10
  take off and landing kind of distracts them.
• 32:13
  My kids get so my one kid gets motion sickness and so I think
• 32:17
  now on flights we give him, I don't know what what the Dutch
• 32:21
  equivalent is, but it's kids drama mean in America.
• 32:23
  So it's like a motion sickness thing.
• 32:25
  I always have it with me. Someone told me one time, like
• 32:28
  on Amazon, you can get these little travel plastic nausea
• 32:31
  bags and we've luckily haven't used them.
• 32:34
  But there was one time where I had the zip lock and we were
• 32:37
  about to board the flight and then my kid just had an episode
• 32:40
  and I just took that zip lock back hit him.
• 32:42
  So I think he just always be prepared.
• 32:44
  And my other thing and flight attendants will probably love
• 32:46
  this is I always have a disposable zip lock for trash.
• 32:50
  So, so on the plane I stuff every wipe, every wrapper in
• 32:55
  that bag. So when they collect it, I just
• 32:57
  give them that bag because I feel bad too when I'm like
• 32:59
  digging around. I miss stuff when there's just a
• 33:01
  hot mess on the front. Even for my stuff.
• 33:03
  Like I don't want all my trash where my iPad is and stuff so I
• 33:07
  always stuff zip lock bags to you as my trash can and then
• 33:10
  give it to the flight attendant after.
• 33:12
  Can you then finish up here and let us know what are your
• 33:15
  favorite places that are kid friendly that you're like, you
• 33:18
  know what, we went to this city, it was awesome.
• 33:20
  We went to this beach, it was awesome.
• 33:22
  We went to this country. We just found it so super kid
• 33:24
  friendly. I think Europe in general is kid
• 33:26
  friendly like all the countries you've been to, but I would say
• 33:28
  any beach, any beach city is just very easy.
• 33:31
  Spain is Portugal, even with the hills, like everyone's just so
• 33:35
  friendly with the kids. Like we were in line and my kids
• 33:38
  weren't even babies and they told us that we could go into
• 33:40
  the family line because they're kids and we can enter the
• 33:42
  museum. I didn't even ask.
• 33:44
  I I thought my kids were too old to even qualify for that, but
• 33:47
  they just, you know, pushed me through Italy depending on like
• 33:51
  the town, just it being kid friendly.
• 33:52
  Like so Positano has a bunch of steps.
• 33:54
  So that's another thing is do your research.
• 33:55
  So if you want to go to Positano, like we took my kids,
• 33:58
  they were four and six, probably pushed it a little because going
• 34:01
  up and down the steps was a little bit hard, but they did it
• 34:05
  and it wasn't even hard for me. But then if you go to Pullia,
• 34:07
  like the South of Italy, it's just all flaps, sandy beaches.
• 34:10
  So then they have a good time. But I think overall, like the
• 34:14
  countries in the other countries I've been to that are in Europe
• 34:17
  have been very, very family and kid friendly.
• 34:20
  Any cities that stand out to you?
• 34:22
  Marbella, Malaga, the South of Spain.
• 34:24
  We've done that twice and we just love it.
• 34:27
  There's actually even a playground right by the Malaga
• 34:29
  airport, a playground right by the airport.
• 34:31
  So if you're there early, it's huge and you can just see the
• 34:34
  planes. It's shaded, planes take off and
• 34:37
  land and then just hop to the airport.
• 34:38
  We also have, I think more again, American credit cards
• 34:42
  have lounge access. We also like to go to the lounge
• 34:45
  and just feed them whatever to keep them until like the snack
• 34:49
  break. Because also when you pack
• 34:50
  snacks, they're going to eat them all right?
• 34:52
  Like right before the flight, they're like, I'm hungry.
• 34:54
  And so that's also just tell them their expectations.
• 34:57
  You can have one and then the rest on the plane, or you're
• 35:00
  going to have nothing on when you land.
• 35:02
  Thank you so, so much for giving us these practical tips, but
• 35:05
  also more the psychological side of traveling with children and
• 35:08
  how to switch your mindset. I hope that this has eased some
• 35:12
  of these parents out there listening when they hear
• 35:15
  traveling and all of they can think of is a huge anxiety
• 35:18
  attack and they don't know how to handle this.
• 35:20
  So this was super, super insightful.
• 35:21
  Thank you so, so much for spending the time with us.
• 35:24
  And if you want to hear more from our experts coming on every
• 35:27
  Wednesday, we have an expert episode.
• 35:29
  You can catch us on Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or
• 35:33
  wherever you get your podcasts. We're also Instagram Damn
• 35:36
  parenting podcast. If you want to help us spread
• 35:38
  the word, share and like this episode, give us a rating on
• 35:42
  your podcast player. We will hear you on the next
• 35:46
  episode. Thank you so much.
• 35:47
  Bye. Thank you guys.